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Pacing yourself in an L4 mission

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Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.07.31 12:51:00 - [1] Hi all. I've been more of a casual trader, manufacturer, part time miner and L3 mission runner for the past few years. As my skill base started to get over 30m SP, I decided that I should go out and buy a Raven and try out L4 missions. No, not all of my SP is dedicated to combat, but other than bringing Cald BS to 5 and Shield Operation to 5 - I should be all set skill wise. So, yesterday I built myself a shiney new raven and through on a few goodies. - 6 'Arbalest' Cruise - 2 Heavy Diminishing Power System Drains - X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload (will replace with t2 after Shield Op 5) - Invulnerability Field II - 2 Rat Specific Active Shield Hardeners (Tech 2) - Shield Boost Amplifier I (will replace with t2 after Shield Management 5 or with named if I need CPU) - 2 Ballistic Control System II - 3 Beta Reactor Control: Capicitor Power Relay - 3 Capacitor Control Ciruits It's actually seems like a decent fit for myself. So, I took it out for my first L4 mission solo. Hrmm... Guristas Extravaganza. Look it up ... fit the right hardeners and load with kinetic cruise and 5 Vespa IIs. Okay, now with the L3 version, I would just go in with a passive tank Ferox and shoot everything until they were all dead with ease. Nothing would ever get past my shields and I would never need to warp out. But, with a L4 version, I expect things to be tough. Stage 1, extremely easy. Stage 2, start fighting, 30 seconds later another spawn with a BS. 30 seconds later another spawn. 30 seconds later another spawn. 30 seconds later a named NPC. 30 seconds later another spawn. Before I knew it I was tanking about a dozen battleships, quickly taking out any of the cruisers/BCs with cruise and all the frigs with my drones. I ended up having to warp out to station, fit 6 'Arbalest' Siege (disabled my nos to fit) and do hit and run strikes until I was down to about 5 battleships left. Now, at this point I am thinking I am doing something wrong. I have been told not to hit the towers, etc until the very end to avoid aggroing everything. But, I noticed that some of the rats where "Calling for help". Are there some ships in the spawn I should put off until the end? Is there anyway to know which ships these are if this is the case?
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:05:00 - [2] Originally by: Tethraa KaiSuun Now, at this point I am thinking I am doing something wrong. I have been told not to hit the towers, etc until the very end to avoid aggroing everything. But, I noticed that some of the rats where "Calling for help". Are there some ships in the spawn I should put off until the end? Is there anyway to know which ships these are if this is the case? Many missions have undergone a change recently. In GE, all those spawns used to be on the map already when you warp in, but only one would aggro and you could pick them off one by one, unless you (or your drones) did something stupid and shot a structure or unaggroed spawns. This has now changed into waves, triggered by certain ships being shot at or destroyed. Those are always the same ships, so the way to know them is doing the mission and paying attention to which ships they are. They usually have something in common, like in The Blockade it is always the 'odd man out' Battleship in a wave. I don't get GE so I cannot tell you which ships are the triggers in there, but I am sure someone else can. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:09:00 - [3] Edited by: FT Diomedes on 31/07/2007 13:10:04 Someone else can give advice on your Raven setup - I don't fly the ship. Nor do I run Caldari missions, so I don't know the triggers for GE. There are many websites that list which ships are the trigger ships. One is this site: http://eveinfo.com/missions/4/ There is also a website that is accessible through the ingame browser - Kill Missions Database or something like that. It has been very helpful. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:11:00 - [4] Well, I guess it's nice to shuffle things up every so often. Thanks for the info. I'm not able to log in at the moment as I am at work. However, if it's possible to tag ships while not being in a gang, It may be a good idea for me to tag the ships of each wave so I don't ever have more than 2 waves spawned at a time. If I am unable to tag them while not in a gang, I guess I'm gonna have to work on that "memory" thing that I have upstairs.
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:14:00 - [5] Originally by: FT Diomedes There are many websites that list which ships are the trigger ships. One is this site: http://eveinfo.com/missions/4/ There is also a website that is accessible through the ingame browser - Kill Missions Database or something like that. It has been very helpful. That's the exact site I used to look up the ship types, damage type, etc. The comments have useful information about the bonus stage and possible faction loot, but they don't discuss the trigger NPCs. One person did mention that the named NPC, when attacked will aggro the entire stage. But, that's not what caused my dilema. Oh, forgot to mention, I did complete that stage, but I needed to get some sleep so I called it quits after salvaging. I am going to have another go at it tonight with a slightly different strategy (see above post).
Nimbu Gallente J.I.T. Enterprises	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:18:00 - [6] Erm im pretty sure cap power relays on a shield tanker = a bad idea. Iirc they nerf shield boost about. 99% of the above is said in RP. The Other 1% is personal, and should be taken that way. :P
Ruuph Marx Caldari Free Corp	Posted - 2007.07.31 13:21:00 - [7] Not sure if it was already said or not, but in GE, I think trigger ships are the inties. Trigger activates when you attack ship, not when you destroy it... so next spawn appears when you start shooting the inties. In case you started with battleships or cruisers, check out what your drones did. Most probably, the cause of the next wave spawn were your drones. So remember to use them carefully in this mission. gl.
Emeline Cabernet Amarr KVA Noble Inc. Institute of Cooperative Education	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:25:00 - [8] switch cpr with pdu.
Roy Gordon Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium	Posted - 2007.07.31 14:47:00 - [9] I take it you must have a pile of isk stashed away? If so, I would not go for a T2 X-Large Shield Booster, but go for a Dread Gurista one or a Pith B-Type, or even a Gist one if you can afford it. And as cap is king in combat, I would get rid of the shield boost amp and go for a T2/True Sansha Cap Recharger. I'd also go for 2 T2 rat specific shield hardeners and 2 T2 Invul fields in the med slots. In the lows go for 3 T2/True Sansha PDU's and 2 T2 BCU. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest!
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Ruuph Marx Not sure if it was already said or not, but in GE, I think trigger ships are the inties. Trigger activates when you attack ship, not when you destroy it... so next spawn appears when you start shooting the inties. In case you started with battleships or cruisers, check out what your drones did. Most probably, the cause of the next wave spawn were your drones. So remember to use them carefully in this mission. gl. It was most likely me and not my drones. I am usually quick to force my drones to engage a specific target as soon as they are finished on the one they were just on. Since I was used to the easy L3s, I never cared how many came to aid the rats. However, now I just need to be more careful. What I was doing, was clearing out the cruisers, Battle Cruisers and frigs in that order. So, I didn't realize I was just forcing them to spawn as quickly as I was attacking them. Basically, to be on the safe side, even if a second wave comes, I won't attack it until the first one is completely finished.
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:19:00 - [11] Originally by: Nimbu Erm im pretty sure cap power relays on a shield tanker = a bad idea. Iirc they nerf shield boost about. I pretty much grabbed the template from the L4 Raven mission 21+page thread. All I did was replaced the standard cruise with Arbalest. I believe the idea is simular to a passive tank setup where the cap power relay penalties are offset by the shield boost amplifiers. However, there is a good chance I will be changing the shield boost and cap power relays around anyway. Originally by: Roy Gordon I take it you must have a pile of isk stashed away? If so, I would not go for a T2 X-Large Shield Booster, but go for a Dread Gurista one or a Pith B-Type, or even a Gist one if you can afford it. And as cap is king in combat, I would get rid of the shield boost amp and go for a T2/True Sansha Cap Recharger. I'd also go for 2 T2 rat specific shield hardeners and 2 T2 Invul fields in the med slots. In the lows go for 3 T2/True Sansha PDU's and 2 T2 BCU. I pretty much have very little liquid assets left after this Raven purchase. Most of what I have is currently tied up with production resources and since I am more of a casual player, I have been slacking a bit lately. However, a dread Gurista or Pith isn't out of the question. A gist would have to wait a while though. I'll probably change around the outfit a little bit after a couple of missions. Need a bit of ISK first.
Zo5o	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:22:00 - [12] Here's the most up-to-date mission database for you: http://home.broadpark.no/~tijohann/eve/missions/ Works in-game.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Tethraa KaiSuun Basically, to be on the safe side, even if a second wave comes, I won't attack it until the first one is completely finished.[/quote This is a surefire way to get an ugly result on at least one mission (it's a level 4 drones mission). In that mission, each of the initial BSs you kill spawns a new group. So, the key to that mission is to kill the first group of BSs one at a time - and kill the group it spawns as they appear. That also won't work on The Blockade, where the "odd man out" is the trigger. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:47:00 - [14] Originally by: Zo5o Here's the most up-to-date mission database for you: http://home.broadpark.no/~tijohann/eve/missions/ Works in-game. Nice page. Thank you for the link!
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.07.31 15:54:00 - [15] Originally by: Tethraa KaiSuun Originally by: Zo5o Here's the most up-to-date mission database for you: http://home.broadpark.no/~tijohann/eve/missions/ Works in-game. Nice page. Thank you for the link! Yes, that is the one I was talking about - great site. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Plokk	Posted - 2007.07.31 22:50:00 - [16] Set-up is very close to what i used to run on my Raven , and should work for most level 4s. However , the gentleman is correct , lose the CPRs and replace with Beta : Cap Control Fluxes , and i would lose 1 BCS II also , and use that slot for a PDS II . The reason for using PDS IIs , is that they give you FIVE bonuses , yes five . And even adds to your HPs on shield . I've never had to run a Booster Amp at all , i made my set-up for Cap Regen , and resists ( very important for level 4s ) Convo in-game if you want to . G/L
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.08.01 00:38:00 - [17] Well, after last night's spending spree I discovered I only have about 50 mil left in spendable ISK. So, I won't be getting any faction modules tonight. However, I did buy a few PDU 2s, BRC: Capictor Flux, Cap Recharger 2s and a second Invuln Field 2 (I already have tech 2 damage specific fields). What I was hoping for was a ship that I could run my shield nearly 100% of the time without having to worry about NOSing. In fact, it would be nice to drop one of the NOSes for a gun of some sort. With my setup in the original post, I was almost there. This was because the Shield Boost amplifiers completely negated the negative effect of the CPRs and even had some extra boost to spare (and yes, I realize there is a panalty for using more than one, but the penalty isn't that much). I then tried, 3 PDU IIs instead of the 3 CPRs. That really didn't seem to do much for me other than allow my cap to drain faster. I effectively loss 46.5% in cap recharge rate. I noticed it's best benefit was the passive shield recharge rate. However, that doesn't help me too much in an active tank setup. I then tried replacing the 3 CPRs with 3 Capacitor Flux. Ack! I couldn't keep my shield running for more than 60 seconds without draining myself to less than 10% cap. Keep in mind, this was also with a Cap Recharge 2 installed. It seems that this is probably better suited for faction shields or shields that take less energy per 4-5 seconds than the one that I am currently using. I also tried messing around with 2 invuln II fields and 2 rat specific tech 2s. I noticed a decent increase in resists. I may use this in the future. However, does 5-10% difference in resists weigh more than the 120 shield/sec I can keep running nearly 100% of the time with the 2 shield boost amps and 3 CPRs? Anyway, I'm off to finish the GE missions without aggroing .. everything!
Roy Gordon Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium	Posted - 2007.08.01 08:05:00 - [18] Ok, I think your looking at this rather sideways. With my setup, which I listed in a previous post above, I’m getting resists between 79 and 89 per type. You can increase this slightly more by replacing one of the BCU’s or PDU’s with a T2 Dam Control. High resist= less damage taken. With a decent X-Large Shield booster you should only really be burst cycling damage taken i.e. only switch on the booster for short periods at a time. I generally never leave the booster on longer than it takes to bring my cap down to 50%, most of the time I never have to run it until cap goes below 75%. If you have the right skills your cap and shield regen rates will be quite fast, even more so with a True Sansha/T2 Cap Recharger, 3 x T2/True Sansha PDU’s and 3 x CCC rigs fitted. And Cap regen is even faster if you take out the rats quick!!! That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest!
Plokk	Posted - 2007.08.02 01:12:00 - [19] Roy is corect , try 1 DCSII , if you can , in one low slot. Resists rock , couple those with a nice cap regen and you can tank any level 4 , period .
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.08.04 02:21:00 - [20] I didn't even consider a damage control unit. I'm going to try that out tonight. My mission went without a hitch with the original outfit once I discovered not to trigger the all at once. I decided to go with a mix of cruise and siege as I noticed my tech 2 drones take care of 99% of the frigs and cruisers for me. In the GE mission, they were even doing great against the BCs while I worked on the BSs. Nice thing about that is less ammo = less overhead cost. At the moment, I put in a T2 X-L shield booster. I plan on saving up for a better one, but there are other big ticket items I need before a 0.0/faction shield. I did however, throw on a 2nd tech 2 invuln and will continue to use my 2 tech 2 rat specific hardeners. Along with the DC T2 unit, my resists should be noticably better. I also has enough room to throw on a Cap recharge 2. In the lows, I kept 2 BCUs only because I currently lack torp and cruise higher end skills and my Cald BS skill is still only 2. In the future I will probably swap one out if I feel a change coming. I'm also going to try 2 PDS and the DC system. Thanks for the advice.
Urgo	Posted - 2007.08.05 18:19:00 - [21] Here is what I use for Level 4s. I'm able to set my boosters, and all hardner mods,on, and more or less forget it. 6 Arbalest launchers The last 2 slots its up to you. 1 Large T2 booster 1 T2 Shield Amplifier (or Copesetic Amp) 4 T2 Shield Hardners Mission specific (T2 Invul. hardners use slightly more cap, so keep an eye on your cap when using them. I use 2 of them sometimes.) 1 T2 Damage Control 2 T2 Ballistic Control 2 T2 Flux Coils 3 Cap Console Rigs It does require some skill training for it work. I would recommend testing out your setup with QuickFit to see if there are any skills that need trainng. Shield Comp should be 4 or 5 Most shield, and shield compensation skills should be up to that as well as engineering for it to work properly. I've never had to warp out (except AE bounus room a few times ) Some limitations to it are: Running in and aggroing everthing and expect it hold, is not a good idea. You still have to use sensibitlity and a bit of caution in any mission. Lastly, make sure to fit the right hardners for the mission. Do that, and the l4's will be easy money. (Well at least for me they have been )
Garan Tormas Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.05 20:23:00 - [22] Originally by: Tethraa KaiSuun However, if it's possible to tag ships while not being in a gang, It may be a good idea for me to tag the ships of each wave so I don't ever have more than 2 waves spawned at a time. If I am unable to tag them while not in a gang, I guess I'm gonna have to work on that "memory" thing that I have upstairs. Well, you can't tag them unless you're in a gang (rather arbitrary and silly in my opinion, but w/e). However, that isn't a problem because you can gang yourself. Just right click your portrait and "form gang ...". You are now a gang of one and can tag stuff to your hearts content.
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.08.06 04:08:00 - [23] Edited by: Feng Schui on 06/08/2007 04:08:19 the trick is (in my opinion)... is about 25% DPS... 75% resists. People say my setup is gimp, can't work, etc... but I've never had a problem with any L4's (unless I'm alt-tabbed and come back taking armor / structure damage )... but, to give you an idea: Highs 6x Arbalest Cruise Launchers (or Caldari Navy Cruise Launchers) 1x Heavy Diminishing Nosferatu (hi2u nos nerf) 1x Drone Augmentor Mids 1x T2 LSE (replacing with a Pith X-type Shield boost amp) 1x T2 Large Shield Booster (replacing with a Gist X-type shield booster) 4x T2 shield hardeners (2 of each damage type) (replacing these with the Pith X-type equivalents) Lows 3x BCU II (or caldari navy BCU's) 2x Shadow Serpentis PDS (these are fairly cheap) Rigs 3x CCC rigs The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :(
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.06 05:50:00 - [24] Originally by: Feng Schui Edited by: Feng Schui on 06/08/2007 04:08:19 the trick is (in my opinion)... is about 25% DPS... 75% resists. People say my setup is gimp, can't work, etc... but I've never had a problem with any L4's (unless I'm alt-tabbed and come back taking armor / structure damage )... but, to give you an idea: Highs 6x Arbalest Cruise Launchers (or Caldari Navy Cruise Launchers) 1x Heavy Diminishing Nosferatu (hi2u nos nerf) 1x Drone Augmentor Mids 1x T2 LSE (replacing with a Pith X-type Shield boost amp) 1x T2 Large Shield Booster (replacing with a Gist X-type shield booster) 4x T2 shield hardeners (2 of each damage type) (replacing these with the Pith X-type equivalents) Lows 3x BCU II (or caldari navy BCU's) 2x Shadow Serpentis PDS (these are fairly cheap) Rigs 3x CCC rigs If you go for cruise launchers anyway fit at least proper sized shield booster on it (you should have plenty of resurses for it). Large booster is not enough in some missions and you will need to warp out ocasionaly. Warping out cuts seriously into your efficency. Proper cruise missile setup would be 6x Cruise II (or navy) 1x Auto Targeter I 1x Tractor Beam (for special items) XL T2 booster 3x T2 hardener 1x PWNAGE painter 1x Heavy Cap Injector II 4x BCU (navy/T2) 1x Signal Amp II (+1 target) 3x CCC I rigs + 5x medium 5x light T2 drones. Depending on your skills and amount of available faction modules you might need to do some compromises. Main issue is CPU. However faction hardeners are rather cheap so you should be able to make it all fit under 300 mil pricetag. Torpedo setup is same, just needs slightly better fitting skills and low slots are 3x BCU + beta RCU + faction CPU. If you do not care about efficency then ofc anything goes. You would be better off in nighthawk in this case however or even drake.
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition New Eve Order	Posted - 2007.08.06 19:11:00 - [25] Edited by: Feng Schui on 06/08/2007 19:11:19 Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Feng Schui Edited by: Feng Schui on 06/08/2007 04:08:19 the trick is (in my opinion)... is about 25% DPS... 75% resists. People say my setup is gimp, can't work, etc... but I've never had a problem with any L4's (unless I'm alt-tabbed and come back taking armor / structure damage )... but, to give you an idea: Highs 6x Arbalest Cruise Launchers (or Caldari Navy Cruise Launchers) 1x Heavy Diminishing Nosferatu (hi2u nos nerf) 1x Drone Augmentor Mids 1x T2 LSE (replacing with a Pith X-type Shield boost amp) 1x T2 Large Shield Booster (replacing with a Gist X-type shield booster) 4x T2 shield hardeners (2 of each damage type) (replacing these with the Pith X-type equivalents) Lows 3x BCU II (or caldari navy BCU's) 2x Shadow Serpentis PDS (these are fairly cheap) Rigs 3x CCC rigs If you go for cruise launchers anyway fit at least proper sized shield booster on it (you should have plenty of resurses for it). Large booster is not enough in some missions and you will need to warp out ocasionaly. Warping out cuts seriously into your efficency. Proper cruise missile setup would be 6x Cruise II (or navy) 1x Auto Targeter I 1x Tractor Beam (for special items) XL T2 booster 3x T2 hardener 1x PWNAGE painter 1x Heavy Cap Injector II 4x BCU (navy/T2) 1x Signal Amp II (+1 target) 3x CCC I rigs + 5x medium 5x light T2 drones. Depending on your skills and amount of available faction modules you might need to do some compromises. Main issue is CPU. However faction hardeners are rather cheap so you should be able to make it all fit under 300 mil pricetag. Torpedo setup is same, just needs slightly better fitting skills and low slots are 3x BCU + beta RCU + faction CPU. If you do not care about efficency then ofc anything goes. You would be better off in nighthawk in this case however or even drake. I've never had to warp out of a mission (even the recon missions). Of course... I use common sense / situation sense when pulling the rats. (editted to add: when I did use a T2 XL booster.. I had to warp out ALOT.. due to excessive cap usuage) The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :(
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.08.06 20:32:00 - [26] i have tried several fittings suggested in this thread. I figured out after several missions, that it really doesn't matter how I outfit my Raven as long as I read up on the mission first and make sure I don't aggro the entire thing. in no case, other than the first run (which I screwed up royally on.. the entire stage at once) did I ever have to warp out. With a couple of the fittings, my shields got down to 40%, but I was never in fear of loosing the controlling hand of battle. I did, however, notice a difference in speed when it comes to out fitting t2's for extra/faster damage. Not too much, but enough to know that I was able to shave a few minutes off my run times. I ended up sticking with a bit more resist, pulse my t2 XLarge shield and kept the 2 BCU in the lows. Quite honestly, I feel the faction defensive modules for the high sec L4 missions would be a complete waste. However, the faction offensive modules I do plan on picking up rather quickly.
Max Payne	Posted - 2007.08.07 01:35:00 - [27] Edited by: Max Payne on 07/08/2007 01:36:59 http://home.broadpark.no/%7Etijohann/eve/missions/ you can try this site it's accessible on the igb Also you can use a large shield booster to save on CPU. and if you leave it on all the time you won't run out of cap.
Ismern GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.07 03:04:00 - [28] Never, ever, EVER put a cap relay on the same ship as a shield booster. Here's my solo L4 mission setup. Never lost it. 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launchers 1x Heavy Diminishing Nos 1x XL Shield Booster 1x Heavy Electrochemical Cap Booster 2x Mission Specific T2 Hardeners 2x T2 Invulnerability Fields 2x PDU II 1x DC II 2x BCS II ----------------------------------------------------------- The winners of EVE have spoken. Let's all quit GoonSwarm and go to Empire while we still have some ISK left.
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.08.07 03:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Max Payne Edited by: Max Payne on 07/08/2007 01:36:59 http://home.broadpark.no/%7Etijohann/eve/missions/ you can try this site it's accessible on the igb Also you can use a large shield booster to save on CPU. and if you leave it on all the time you won't run out of cap. Thanks for the clicky. Although, I think that's the same one two other people posted in this thread. Large shield booster doesn't seem to have enough umph for me if I slack off a little. Plus, I haven't run out of CPU yet. Originally by: Ismern Never, ever, EVER put a cap relay on the same ship as a shield booster. I really wonder people keep saying that. It's 20% extra cap recharge rate with another 10% increase to shield boost when a Cap Relay is fitted along side a Shield Boost Amplifier. So, there aren't any penalties. Now granted, there are better ways to outfit 2 module slots, but it does work and at times it works well for a VERY cheap sum of ISK. It allows you to run your shield longer than you normally would and for more shield boost per activation. Originally by: Ismern Here's my solo L4 mission setup. Never lost it. 6x 'Arbalest' Cruise Launchers 1x Heavy Diminishing Nos 1x XL Shield Booster 1x Heavy Electrochemical Cap Booster 2x Mission Specific T2 Hardeners 2x T2 Invulnerability Fields 2x PDU II 1x DC II 2x BCS II This is basically what I ended up with except with 2 Nos and a tech2 cap recharger. I don't bother with a tractor beam as I have a destroyer set up as a salvager/looter ship.
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.08.07 11:17:00 - [30] Edited by: pandymen on 07/08/2007 11:22:14 Honestly, I do not understand why people insist on using a XL shield booster on a standard raven. On a navy issue raven, it is a different story and you are able to fit more of a passive tank while using the XL booster only occasionally. Well, let me just show my setup: -6 Arbalest Siege/Cruise -1 Heavy NOS -1 Large Shield Booster II -4xRat specific hardeners II -1xInvulnerability Field II -3xBCU II (or 2xBCU II, and one dmg control) -2xPDS II -3x CCC Rigs Now, look at it this way. The T2 Large Booster reps exactly half as much shield as the T2 XL. Most of the people here use Cap Flux Coils which decrease the shield boost amount, thereby negating a large portion of this benefit. Additionally, they fit cap batteries and a shield boost amp in the mids. For serpentis missions, for example, my resists are 87 and 89% for thermal and kinetic respectively. Compared to the XL booster setups, if they have only 74% and 78% resists, then they are taking twice the damage I am, and that is generally what their resists are, or worse if they they are trying to tank EM damage with only 1 invuln and 1 hardener. This basically means my tech II Large is able to keep up with the same DPS as a tech II XL booster. If that XL shield booster needed to use Cap Flux coils which reduce shield boost amount, then their tank is actually much worse (and most likely less sustainable). Also of note is the fact that my 2 PDS's allow for more shield buffer and more shield recharge, which helps slightly. The 3xBCU's allow me to deal out more dmg. I can run the tank almost permanently (and if I had either cap skill up to lvl 5, i could). Contrast this to a typical XL tank which can only use the booster on occasion without totally draining its cap. In short, I have run almost every level 4 mission (at least the ones in gallente space), with absolutely no problem. Granted, I am also intelligent about picking spawns, but there isn't anything you cannot solo outside of the Angel Ex bonus room (which you couldn't with just an XL anyway). Don't get drawn in by the seemingly huge boost amount of an XL when you can fashion just as good of a tank from a Large II that outputs more damage and is more sustainable. That said, I am aware of a corpie who uses Cap Flux coils that have the cap capacity penalty to make a permatank out of an XL booster. That said, his resists aren't as high as mine, and the tank is only slightly better. Unfortunately, he cannot fit a single BCU II and fits fewer hardeners due to the need for cap modules. So, he has a slightly better tank at the expense of a large amount of damage. Edit: And yes, you could fit some faction booster to run a much better tank than the one listed above. However, I do not feel the need to spend in excess of 500 million isk (or 50+ hours of missioning just to make up for the cost) on something that I really don't need. It's essentially a waste of 500 million isk because the booster will save you virtually no time at all while running missions, and I highly doubt you will ever make up the deficit. ---------------------------------------------> Red Dwarf is currently recruiting missioners, miners, and 0.0 ratters. Please contact me in-game for details or join channel Red Dwarf Recruitment.
Yebatcu Tesada	Posted - 2007.08.07 14:43:00 - [31] Quote: -1 Large Shield Booster II -4xRat specific hardeners II -1xInvulnerability Field II And you can run this (all together) for how long ?
Oz Masema Evil Proctologists	Posted - 2007.08.07 15:49:00 - [32] when i last read this forum a month or so ago, everyone was raving about using torps instead of cruise. i've always used torps, as even on cruiser heavy missions i found cruise missiles took to long to do the job. have the missions changed or somthing to make everyone use cruise now?
Sollz	Posted - 2007.08.07 17:09:00 - [33] Edited by: Sollz on 07/08/2007 17:12:13 some players are still confusing between capacitor power relay and capacitor influx coil. 1. capacitor is used for armor tank never on shield tank b/c it reduces shield boost capacity 2. capacitor influx coil increases the cap recharge rate but decreases capacitory storage. The only problem i see with this mod is when you have cap intensive mod equiped, you cant activate all of them at the same time. I think torp is best for lvl 4 mission with either 7med T2 drones or 5med T2 drones & 5light T2 drones which can take of frigate/bc very quickly
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.08.07 17:56:00 - [34] I just wanted to say that using passive shield resists with the proper resistance skills to 4, you can get every resist to 75% or higher with a t2 damage control and t2 invuln field. Helps with the cap a little.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.07 19:26:00 - [35] Originally by: Oz Masema when i last read this forum a month or so ago, everyone was raving about using torps instead of cruise. i've always used torps, as even on cruiser heavy missions i found cruise missiles took to long to do the job. have the missions changed or somthing to make everyone use cruise now? Most specialized mission runners who are after effectivity still use torpedoes. It's kinda hard to go back to cruise missiles after you have figured out how many salvos anything takes to kill and are getting effective with them. Cruise missiles setups are used either to ease fitting req. and get better tank or for semiafk setups (FoF or activate stuff on target and do something else until target is dead type setups).
Rogan Sarl M. Corp M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.08.07 22:15:00 - [36] http://home.broadpark.no/~tijohann/eve/missions/ Use this link, it does also work ingame. That will sort out some of your problems. Good luck R
Tethraa KaiSuun	Posted - 2007.08.07 23:25:00 - [37] Hey.... Has anyone been to http://home.broadpark.no/~tijohann/eve/missions/ before?
Gee'Kin Tha Specialz	Posted - 2007.08.08 12:09:00 - [38] information is ur friend --------------------------------------------> Plz tickle my brain. I wanna have a Brainfart ! -------------------------------------------->
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.08.08 21:49:00 - [39] Originally by: Yebatcu Tesada Quote: -1 Large Shield Booster II -4xRat specific hardeners II -1xInvulnerability Field II And you can run this (all together) for how long ? Never timed it, but with the 3 cap rigs and both cap skills to lvl 4, I can almost permanently use the shield booster. With another 5% or so, I would be able to run it permanently. As it is, it runs for quite some time (never have timed it), and I have always been able to clear out a spawn before I came close to turning off my tank. ---------------------------------------------> Red Dwarf is currently recruiting missioners, miners, and 0.0 ratters. Please contact me in-game for details or join channel Red Dwarf Recruitment.
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:03:00 - [40] Originally by: pandymen Originally by: Yebatcu Tesada Quote: -1 Large Shield Booster II -4xRat specific hardeners II -1xInvulnerability Field II And you can run this (all together) for how long ? Never timed it, but with the 3 cap rigs and both cap skills to lvl 4, I can almost permanently use the shield booster. With another 5% or so, I would be able to run it permanently. As it is, it runs for quite some time (never have timed it), and I have always been able to clear out a spawn before I came close to turning off my tank. Just stick the setup into EFT and you will know how long you can run it. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
TROY STUBBER	Posted - 2007.08.08 22:19:00 - [41] Until you get faction SB, cap booster can help to manage cap in any active setup because it will keep your cap full for "a small fee" even with poor skills and cheap modes. So most cost/skill effective lvl4 raven setup should be something like this. hi's: 6 SML 2 med ac's or whatever meds: XLsb, amp, 3 hardners (invi+2main damage is popular), cap booster w/800 lows: 3 bcu, dcuII, pdu or cpu to fit everything Rigs should come later to adjust any weak points. With 3 ccc already in place most missions will be doeble without cap booster so painter or ab mite do even better to speed things up.
pandymen Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.08.09 02:12:00 - [42] As I said above, it is impossible to use an XL shield booster in missions without a ton of cap mods. You will need those 3 ccc rigs if you want to even dream of using an XL shield booster on a raven. You will also need some low slot cap mods in addition. And I don't know what EFT is nor do I need to test it. I know it works. My setup is a proven setup that is sufficient to finish every level 4 mission. ---------------------------------------------> Red Dwarf is currently recruiting missioners, miners, and 0.0 ratters. Please contact me in-game for details or join channel Red Dwarf Recruitment.
Wolfslaysinthenight	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:03:00 - [43] I use gisti C, B, and X type (X incls one pith hardner)hardners on drake 1, drake 2, and raven repectively. I use T2 shield boost medium on drake 1, drake 2, and large on raven. All 3 ships have appropriate cap/shield regen rigs for just that tiny added bit of help for the capcitor and shield recharge. I rarely have to use the boosters - I can active tank complexes (4/10) minmatar space, and all lvl 3 missions - no warpouts - I almost exclusively use the drakes. I use 6 and 7 arbs heavy launchers respectively w/faction missles for the extra umph. I ALWAYS use a T2 DC on anything I fly for combat. low slots are fill in for CPU boosts, power grid boosts or whatever that particular ship needs to make a fit work. I keep it simple and healthy, relying on common sense in-mission (or PVP)and religiously study the good mission reporting site for damage, ship and faction types encountered, what triggers spawn, how to blitz it if needed and is enabled, etc I use the better tanked drake for any L4 missions I am ganged to in my corp and usually have little aggro right off to none which gives me time to position and carefully select targets usually beginning with frigates ad always anything that webs or jams to protect my mates. I solo complexes regularly and only once got distracted and warped successfully to dock at 9% hull - everything else was gone tank wise, but I took too long trying to waste that mach and the full respawn aggroed me when they popped in - noone and I mean noone is going to survive 20+ ships on ya at once, so I dont feel so bad - prior to that event I had cleared the pockets and owned. So tank kept simple but sparing no expense for quality works. I am a 5 month player but train hard and train correctly - yur no good to anyone if yur dead.
Wolfslaysinthenight	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:16:00 - [44] Originally by: Tethraa KaiSuun Hey.... Has anyone been to http://home.broadpark.no/~tijohann/eve/missions/ before? every day I use it for mission briefs and to brief my mates in gang before we warp in - it ensures a successful outcome if ya follow the guidlines it gives for each mission profile and u remember there is never any substitute for common sense and good judgement - especialy when ur in there also trying to keep yur hothead pilots alive at the same time as yurself. It is an excellant tool! Use it!
Solid NL	Posted - 2007.10.26 13:58:00 - [45] Basicly have the same setup but i have a small advantage of a alt account with a amar support vessel so i never run out of cap. I tried flying without one before i had the skills on my alt account but a xlarge may provide the best shield but no matter what you do it will run out pretty quickly and some missions simply deal so much dps that you simply cant handle it. A large shield booster would then be the option however if i see that already in some mission can outdamage my xlarge shield booster i dont wanna know what they do with a large shield booster. (yes i know i took the easy way out but it sure as hell has made my mission running ALOT easier.) Greetz Solid
Aprudena Gist Caldari Capital Development and Security Industries	Posted - 2007.10.26 14:10:00 - [46] Originally by: Tethraa KaiSuun Hi all. I've been more of a casual trader, manufacturer, part time miner and L3 mission runner for the past few years. As my skill base started to get over 30m SP, I decided that I should go out and buy a Raven and try out L4 missions. No, not all of my SP is dedicated to combat, but other than bringing Cald BS to 5 and Shield Operation to 5 - I should be all set skill wise. So, yesterday I built myself a shiney new raven and through on a few goodies. - 6 'Arbalest' Cruise - 2 Heavy Diminishing Power System Drains - X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload (will replace with t2 after Shield Op 5) - Invulnerability Field II - 2 Rat Specific Active Shield Hardeners (Tech 2) - Shield Boost Amplifier I (will replace with t2 after Shield Management 5 or with named if I need CPU) - 2 Ballistic Control System II - 3 Beta Reactor Control: Capicitor Power Relay - 3 Capacitor Control Ciruits It's actually seems like a decent fit for myself. So, I took it out for my first L4 mission solo. Hrmm... Guristas Extravaganza. Look it up ... fit the right hardeners and load with kinetic cruise and 5 Vespa IIs. Okay, now with the L3 version, I would just go in with a passive tank Ferox and shoot everything until they were all dead with ease. Nothing would ever get past my shields and I would never need to warp out. But, with a L4 version, I expect things to be tough. Stage 1, extremely easy. Stage 2, start fighting, 30 seconds later another spawn with a BS. 30 seconds later another spawn. 30 seconds later another spawn. 30 seconds later a named NPC. 30 seconds later another spawn. Before I knew it I was tanking about a dozen battleships, quickly taking out any of the cruisers/BCs with cruise and all the frigs with my drones. I ended up having to warp out to station, fit 6 'Arbalest' Siege (disabled my nos to fit) and do hit and run strikes until I was down to about 5 battleships left. Now, at this point I am thinking I am doing something wrong. I have been told not to hit the towers, etc until the very end to avoid aggroing everything. But, I noticed that some of the rats where "Calling for help". Are there some ships in the spawn I should put off until the end? Is there anyway to know which ships these are if this is the case? Everyone bashing him about the CPR's its because he wants a perarun tank setup with t2 only gear. Now from reading the website about that mission it looks as if the frigates cause the spawn waves so kill the big ships first then the littles ones and your fine. http://eve-survival.org/missions/
Karrihn Caldari Black Company	Posted - 2007.10.27 16:36:00 - [47] Target and kill the Battleshios first, then cruisers, etc.... The missions have to be done more like 0.0 ratting. Kill the big stuff first. then you won't accidentally trigger a respawn. Keep in mind that if you engauge and do not actually kill any of the spawn, eventually the next wave will spawn by without shooting the trigger. The Destruction of your ship is usually preceeded by the thought,"I think I will try somthing a little different this time...."

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