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ColdFuzion Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.03 22:34:00 - [1] Oh wise people of Missions & Explorations section subscriber viewers thingamagig. To get a CNR or not to get a CNR as topic states that is the question. I have no desire to get a Gist A-type everything on a ship that will make me mission grind for the rest of my eve days to gain to shave a few measly minutes off a mission. I currently own simply a Gist x-large shield booster and amp which seems to do fine more or less. Now a CNR is roughly about 600 mil is it worth the isk spent per advantage if so what is this major value that makes it more worth for an investment that the standard raven. Your thoughts, critiques and advice will be appreciated
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.04 00:00:00 - [2] 7 launchers instead of 6, that's the only significant improvement for mission-running. Strangely enough, even if it has slightly more CPU, it's a bit harder to fit (just with torps, cruise is easy) as a regular Raven. As such, you need to run quite a bit more than 3 bil ISK worth of missions to "break even" (due to the increased mission-running speed). That number does NOT include looting and salvaging, just bounties, LP and mission ISK rewards. If you include those too, you're looking at anywhere between 4 to 6 bil ISK worth of missions to break even. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Zo5o	Posted - 2007.08.04 00:41:00 - [3] Who cares about breaking even... it's a game... if you think it'll be fun, go for it if you got the isk!
Graduran Anguirill Swedish Academy	Posted - 2007.08.04 08:09:00 - [4] well, I can really recommend a rattlesnake, the tank is a beast on my snake I have now and I truly like the ship, it looks nice and I simply didnt want the fotm CNR I see everywhere. Other than that, I guess an added launcher on a CNR is worth it, speeding things up alittle :) ~~o~~ Shike from DAoC ~~o~~
Nocturnal Avenger The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.08.04 10:10:00 - [5] Originally by: ColdFuzion Now a CNR is roughly about 600 mil is it worth the isk spent per advantage if so what is this major value that makes it more worth for an investment that the standard raven. If you run missions in high-sec and don't fall for the Lofty29 scam or similar - you should really not die... Thus - you don't need to break even or anything. When you stop doing missions, sell the CNR (assuming sell price is equal to buy price) and be glad you had that 7th launcher for the duration. - Carebear Pirate -
Rooker Lysian Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:24:00 - [6] I'm sure the extra launcher is nice and all, but T2 hardeners and good cap skills on a regular Raven is really all you need. There's very few missions I can't tank easily and only a couple where I wonder if I need to start aligning to something.
Calprimus Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:42:00 - [7] Train for a NH and forget that CNR stuff........
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.08.04 11:57:00 - [8] If you are into torps, CNR will be a huge benefit to you since with 7 torps and one painter it can one-volley BCs (and more cruisers than the standard Raven too). That advantage is much larger than the mere 16% extra dps you get. If you use cruise, all you really get is the 16% extra dps. If that is worth it or not you will have to decide for yourself. Keep in mind though that due to tanking, 16% extra dps turns into a bigger figure in mission speed, lets say 20% faster missions. Which is 25% more profit. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.04 12:38:00 - [9] As previous posters have stated CNR main advantage over regular raven is added dps. Added dps will make your missions go faster and thus get you more isk / hour. Granted - 'breaking even' time is relatively long, but less than it was on Hulks for hi sec mining before invention. Say - if you currently get 20 mil / h (with LP added in) then after CNR you would get 25 .. 30 mil / h. That extra 5 mil / h does take a while to add up that 600 mil pricetag, but as you already have gistii booster then propablity of losing that investment before you 'break even' is low. And it is always possible to sell it on afterwards. Those prices are not likley to fall any futher (missionrunners with brains aim already around 2000 isk/LP mark with other offers and only lazy or stupid cash in in CNR's and sell them for 600 mil).
mr bighelmet EnTech Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.08.04 12:54:00 - [10] The extra DPS will mean u can do mission easier and about 10-15% faster, is that worth it from ISK point of view i'm not sure. What i am sure that at least for me it's more fun when i got after battle station and stuff like that so make up ur own mind. If i post something smart it represent my corp and alliance all other posts are my feeling/ideas only and do not represnt the rest
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.04 13:48:00 - [11] Originally by: mr bighelmet The extra DPS will mean u can do mission easier and about 10-15% faster, is that worth it from ISK point of view i'm not sure. What i am sure that at least for me it's more fun when i got after battle station and stuff like that so make up ur own mind. Actually 20 - 25% faster. Base dps gain from one extra launcher is 16 %, but in missions what counts is where you are above NPC tanking ability. Say if you do 400 dps and rat can tank 300 dps then if you rise your dps to 500 you will kill him twice as fast (as you will get in 200 dps over his tanking ability instead of 100 dps). In case of CNR however real candy is your ability to kill battlecruisers in one volley (7x torps + 1x target painter). Torpedo CNR is like .. umm ... well .. fast. It also kills 2 to 3 NPC battleships per minute with faction fittings and good skills (3 to 5 volleys per battleship). It's pretty decent with cruise missiles also just not as spectacular.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.04 13:52:00 - [12] Originally by: Leandro Salazar If you are into torps, CNR will be a huge benefit to you since with 7 torps and one painter it can one-volley BCs (and more cruisers than the standard Raven too). That advantage is much larger than the mere 16% extra dps you get. I triple-volley battlecruisers with my railgun astarte, which mean about 10 seconds of firing. Imho, and with a lot of generalisation, there is basically 3 main kinds of mission runners: - The first level, using standard ravens while they learn how to do missions and get rich. - The intermediate level, using either pimped ravens or CNRs. - And those will lots of skill points, who tend to switch to command ships. Not always because they're more effective, but because they are more fun to fly. ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Mar vel Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.04 17:50:00 - [13] That pretty much sums it up. Originally by: Shadowsword Originally by: Leandro Salazar If you are into torps, CNR will be a huge benefit to you since with 7 torps and one painter it can one-volley BCs (and more cruisers than the standard Raven too). That advantage is much larger than the mere 16% extra dps you get. I triple-volley battlecruisers with my railgun astarte, which mean about 10 seconds of firing. Imho, and with a lot of generalisation, there is basically 3 main kinds of mission runners: - The first level, using standard ravens while they learn how to do missions and get rich. - The intermediate level, using either pimped ravens or CNRs. - And those will lots of skill points, who tend to switch to command ships. Not always because they're more effective, but because they are more fun to fly.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.04 18:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Andrue on 04/08/2007 18:01:23 Originally by: Calprimus Train for a NH and forget that CNR stuff........ Agreed. I can fly into Recon 1/3 and not give a damn about jamming. Okay so it's annoying but I know that my tank will just wait it out. Ten minutes. Ten hours. Whatever. Might be boring or irritatng but I know I'm at no risk Mission running is slightly slower but the NH is cheaper and has an unbreakable tank. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.04 19:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 04/08/2007 18:01:23 Originally by: Calprimus Train for a NH and forget that CNR stuff........ Agreed. I can fly into Recon 1/3 and not give a damn about jamming. Okay so it's annoying but I know that my tank will just wait it out. Ten minutes. Ten hours. Whatever. Might be boring or irritatng but I know I'm at no risk Mission running is slightly slower but the NH is cheaper and has an unbreakable tank. I prefer 2x T2 tanked CNR's. When one gets jammed then other is free to shoot usually. But then again 2 accounts is not the solution most people are looking for. It sure is cheaper but speed reduction (at least on paper I have no personal experience with nighthawk) is also quite noticeable. Not so mutch on lighter missions but more so with BS heavy ones.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.04 19:58:00 - [16] Originally by: Carniflex It sure is cheaper but speed reduction (at least on paper I have no personal experience with nighthawk) is also quite noticeable. Not so mutch on lighter missions but more so with BS heavy ones. Agreed although it depends on the mission and I don't think that it's a huge difference on average. Missions with mostly BS are going to be faster for a CNR but the NH can chew through cruisers and frigs quite happily (I often don't evn bother with my drones). CNR=more Isk/hour but NH = more safety and less stress. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] *This is not* a signature**
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.08.04 20:02:00 - [17] How'd you like an SIR instead? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Armadaus Baldwin	Posted - 2007.08.04 20:04:00 - [18] Quote: I prefer 2x T2 tanked CNR's. When one gets jammed then other is free to shoot usually. But then again 2 accounts is not the solution most people are looking for. It sure is cheaper but speed reduction (at least on paper I have no personal experience with nighthawk) is also quite noticeable. Not so mutch on lighter missions but more so with BS heavy ones. ... This is what FOF missiles are for... Dur.
Sally Sathir	Posted - 2007.08.04 21:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Akita T As such, you need to run quite a bit more than 3 bil ISK worth of missions to "break even" (due to the increased mission-running speed). That number does NOT include looting and salvaging, just bounties, LP and mission ISK rewards. If you include those too, you're looking at anywhere between 4 to 6 bil ISK worth of missions to break even. What you describe only really applies if the CNR loses all value while you've owned it, and is being given away for nothing on the market. Under normal market conditions, the 550m spent on a CNR won't devaluate so severely. Patches, market fluctuations, and major game changes may cost you some of your original 550m investment, but never ALL. And as long as you can turn around and sell it for what you paid for it, you've broken even, and any extra money you have made while you've had it is pure profit.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.04 21:37:00 - [20] Edited by: Akita T on 04/08/2007 21:40:10 I'm sorry, I probably should have said "more than X bil ISK to break even in case you lose it" If you don't lose it (and you generally shouldn't if you avoid insane lag systems and "friendly pirate scams"), then yeah, you can consider it a fully recoverable investment and from your end it "pays off" almost instantly. However, you also have to consider the "not planning to sell it" part... like, for instance, in case of the half-casual mission runner (or the "mission runner to fund PvP alt activity"), where you only care about how much ISK it will bring you overall and keep on bringing you from that moment on. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Ceremony Garp	Posted - 2007.08.06 11:39:00 - [21] Mr ColdFuzion, After flying standard T2 Ravens, standard ravens with faction/officer modules, I moved onto a CNR. I then bought a Rattlesnake. I also run them in a NightHawk and have a Cerberus too. Tbh, I'm probably gonna' sell my Rattlesnake as it takes longer than the CNR, but was damn fun to fly. The Nighthawk I use purely for Recon level 3 and also to pvp in. The Cerb is for ****s and giggles. In answer to your question, I suppose it depends what you want from EvE. As a full on mission runner you should get a CNR, simple as that. It's the ultimate mission running ship. CNR price seems to have settled now, but it will prolly go up again, who knows?
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.06 15:27:00 - [22] IMO: Raven < Drake < CNR < Dominix Torpedoes are great vs. battleships & battlecruisers, but are basically a waste of ammo vs. cruisers and worthless vs. frigates. Forget interceptors. My Ogre IIs chew through cruisers like they're made of paper and out DPS a CNR's seven launchers (admittedly, once they're to the target). In fact, the only reason a CNR can out DPS the dominix is that it can field tech II medium drones. Without them it does less damage than a domi with it's drones and no guns. There are of course advantages to a CNR over a Dominix. Your DPS gets there quicker than heavy drones. At least in the case of cruise missiles. And you don't have to worry about drone aggro. I think Ogre IIs with drone nav. IV or so can outrun torpedoes. However, you also have to worry about defender missiles which can really screw with your DPS. Lastly, a tech II fitted CNR costs almost five times as much as a tech II fitted dominix. The golden rule of EVE: Never fly a ship you can't afford to lose. If you want to pimp out your CNR, go for it. Me, I want to pimp out my pvp ships, not my ISK harvesters. Losing a dominix won't suck nearly so bad as losing a CNR. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Dahak2150 Chaos Monkeys	Posted - 2007.08.06 15:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Armadaus Baldwin Quote: I prefer 2x T2 tanked CNR's. When one gets jammed then other is free to shoot usually. But then again 2 accounts is not the solution most people are looking for. It sure is cheaper but speed reduction (at least on paper I have no personal experience with nighthawk) is also quite noticeable. Not so mutch on lighter missions but more so with BS heavy ones. ... This is what FOF missiles are for... Dur. Yeah, 'cause those don't ever get you concorded, or take a full half of a jam cycle to load, not counting deactivation time. ---------------- Originally by: "Cyberus" cause its has no sence anyway your brains is simply wont accept that anyway.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.06 19:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Xaen IMO: Raven < Drake < CNR < Dominix Yet ... for some bizarre reason regardless of uberness of dominix CNR and Raven are faster in missions than dominix. And as far as losing statement goes. True mostly altho in PvE (hi sec) propability of loss is low. Main advantage of CNR over dominix is that you can throw some isk at it and it actually shows in your mission completion times. Sure - you might want to avoid unreasonable investments, but hey even t2 fitted raven should be (i have not flown one for a while) faster than domi in most missions. I personally do not consider CNR as unreasonable investment. Approx 25% speedgain over regular raven is something you really take notice. A bit pricy but it pays back in month or so of missionrunning. Even if you keep non faction fittings (perhaps using few 'cheap' faction mods like hardeners to save cpu).
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.07 13:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Xaen IMO: Raven < Drake < CNR < Dominix Yet ... for some bizarre reason regardless of uberness of dominix CNR and Raven are faster in missions than dominix. Somebody needs to review their less than symbols. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.07 14:03:00 - [26] Originally by: Xaen Somebody needs to review their less than symbols. In perfect world where everybody has lev 5 skills you will get Raven 6x Siege II 2x Auto Targeter I (or whatever) 1x XL t2 booster 3x T2 Hardener 1x PWNAGE painter 1x Heavy Cap injector II 3x BCU II 1x RCU II 1x CPU II 3x CCC I rigs + 5x Hammerhead II drones Theoretical max dps: 739 Dominix (I dont fly one in missions so spank me if it's real crap fit) 5x Dual 250 mm T2 1x Auto Targeter I (or whatever fits) 4x Cap Recharger II 1x Sensor Booster II 2x LAR II 3x T2 hardener 1x DCU II 1x Cap Power Relay II 3x CCC I rigs + 5x Ogre II drones Theoretical max dps: 675 Granted, dominix tanks better especially as it can run it's 2x LAR II nonstop indefinately in that setup (in perfect world with all skills at lev 5) while Raven needs cap injector to last more than few minutes should he need to run that booster non stop. Then you come into real world where people dont have all skills at lev 5, drones and missiles need time to travel to their targets, guns need to track things and so on and 'real dps' what you get is somewhat lower, but Raven still does more damage while Dominix still tanks better. But you see .. tank above certain threshold where you can do missions without warpouts does not make them go any faster while dps does make them go faster. If you look at CNR then it's Raven on steroids. At the end of day it's still up to personal preference. Most solutions work quite fine and reasons for personals preferences wary from people to people. Be it then looks, price of hardware or need to feel superior to 'unwashed masses'.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.07 14:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Carniflex Originally by: Xaen Somebody needs to review their less than symbols. In perfect world where everybody has lev 5 skills you will get Raven 6x Siege II 2x Auto Targeter I (or whatever) 1x XL t2 booster 3x T2 Hardener 1x PWNAGE painter 1x Heavy Cap injector II 3x BCU II 1x RCU II 1x CPU II 3x CCC I rigs + 5x Hammerhead II drones Theoretical max dps: 739 Dominix (I dont fly one in missions so spank me if it's real crap fit) 5x Dual 250 mm T2 1x Auto Targeter I (or whatever fits) 4x Cap Recharger II 1x Sensor Booster II 2x LAR II 3x T2 hardener 1x DCU II 1x Cap Power Relay II 3x CCC I rigs + 5x Ogre II drones Theoretical max dps: 675 Granted, dominix tanks better especially as it can run it's 2x LAR II nonstop indefinately in that setup (in perfect world with all skills at lev 5) while Raven needs cap injector to last more than few minutes should he need to run that booster non stop. Then you come into real world where people dont have all skills at lev 5, drones and missiles need time to travel to their targets, guns need to track things and so on and 'real dps' what you get is somewhat lower, but Raven still does more damage while Dominix still tanks better. But you see .. tank above certain threshold where you can do missions without warpouts does not make them go any faster while dps does make them go faster. If you look at CNR then it's Raven on steroids. At the end of day it's still up to personal preference. Most solutions work quite fine and reasons for personals preferences wary from people to people. Be it then looks, price of hardware or need to feel superior to 'unwashed masses'. Let me guess, that was calculated vs. a battleship. Try vs. a cruiser or frigate. Also your domi fit is kinda weird. Personally I'm using quad 350s. Good extra DPS vs battleships and they can halfassed hit cruisers too. I agree, despite their insane DPS, drones can be problematic through drone aggro and flight time to target, but Heavy Drones have no problems taking out anything bigger than an interceptor. And even interceptors are no problem for Ogres if you have a web. Torpedoes are a waste of ammo vs. anything smaller than a BC. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.07 14:40:00 - [28] Edited by: Xaen on 07/08/2007 14:41:38 Originally by: Carniflex Raven 6x Siege II 2x Auto Targeter I (or whatever) 1x XL t2 booster 3x T2 Hardener 1x PWNAGE painter 1x Heavy Cap injector II 3x BCU II 1x RCU II 1x CPU II 3x CCC I rigs + 5x Hammerhead II drones Theoretical max dps: 739 Dominix (I dont fly one in missions so spank me if it's real crap fit) 5x Dual 250 mm T2 1x Auto Targeter I (or whatever fits) 4x Cap Recharger II 1x Sensor Booster II 2x LAR II 3x T2 hardener 1x DCU II 1x Cap Power Relay II 3x CCC I rigs + 5x Ogre II drones Theoretical max dps: 675 IMHO, if you have to use a painter to make your weapon effective, you're using the wrong weapon. Why not a mixture of Cruise and torps? You'd get good smaller target dps from the cruise, but still have some heavy hitters for battleships. It would be easier to fit too. If you ask me a target painter is a crutch propping up your DPS. Especially since even the tech II version only boosts sig radius by 30%. But if giant graphical explosions do it for you, by all means continue. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.07 14:47:00 - [29] It's more than 30% with proper spec skills. And it lets me one volley BC's in CNR. One BC down every 7 sec (faction launchers + hardwire and BCU's) plus some battleships need painter on them to feel the full effect of torps. Can kill 2 to 3 NPC battleships in minute with torp CNR. Altho in case of cruise Raven well .. you might be better off in Dominix with proper skills indeed. Cruise missile dps in not that spectacular.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.07 15:07:00 - [30] Originally by: Carniflex It's more than 30% with proper spec skills. And it lets me one volley BC's in CNR. One BC down every 7 sec (faction launchers + hardwire and BCU's) plus some battleships need painter on them to feel the full effect of torps. Can kill 2 to 3 NPC battleships in minute with torp CNR. Altho in case of cruise Raven well .. you might be better off in Dominix with proper skills indeed. Cruise missile dps in not that spectacular. My problem with torps isn't BCS. Large rails and large drones eat them like they're made of paper too. Even cruise missiles take them out quickly. My problem with torps is they're almost completely useless vs cruisers and frigates. Both of which frequently make up at least half the hitpoints in a room if not more. If you still have quickfit up with those skills and fittings I'm curious what the dps for both of those setups is vs say....a pith/guristas killer (caracal-type). ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.08.07 15:19:00 - [31] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Carniflex It's more than 30% with proper spec skills. And it lets me one volley BC's in CNR. One BC down every 7 sec (faction launchers + hardwire and BCU's) plus some battleships need painter on them to feel the full effect of torps. Can kill 2 to 3 NPC battleships in minute with torp CNR. Altho in case of cruise Raven well .. you might be better off in Dominix with proper skills indeed. Cruise missile dps in not that spectacular. My problem with torps isn't BCS. Large rails and large drones eat them like they're made of paper too. Even cruise missiles take them out quickly. My problem with torps is they're almost completely useless vs cruisers and frigates. Both of which frequently make up at least half the hitpoints in a room if not more. If you still have quickfit up with those skills and fittings I'm curious what the dps for both of those setups is vs say....a pith/guristas killer (caracal-type). With two painters cruisers die very quickly too. And frigs are dealt with by drones (though I throw torps at inties too to get rid of them faster). And the missions where cruisers and frigs really make up half the effective hitpoints are few and far between (at least for me) and I do those in an Abaddon anyway. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.07 17:01:00 - [32] Originally by: Leandro Salazar With two painters cruisers die very quickly too. And frigs are dealt with by drones (though I throw torps at inties too to get rid of them faster). And the missions where cruisers and frigs really make up half the effective hitpoints are few and far between (at least for me) and I do those in an Abaddon anyway. Interesting. What's the quickfit DPS? ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.07 18:12:00 - [33] All skills for both ships at level V if they have any impact. Raven Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Siege Missile Launcher II [20xJuggernaut Torpedo] Turret Slot Turret Slot Ballistic Deflection Field I Ballistic Deflection Field I Heat Dissipation Field I X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Target Painter II Heavy Capacitor Booster II [5xCap Booster 800] Reactor Control Unit II Co-Processor II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Rigs : Capacitor Control Circuit I \ Capacitor Control Circuit I \ Capacitor Control Circuit I \ Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II Hammerhead II 9375 shield, 12.5/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/59/83/59 8301 armor, E/T/K/Ex=59/44/25/10 6640.625 cap, +30.59/s, -97.8/s 144.0 m/s 148.3 DPS vs. Pithi Arrogator (Frigate) 307.5 DPS vs. Pithum Killer (Cruiser) 532.0 DPS vs. Pithatis Assassin (Battlecruiser) 500.2 DPS vs. Pith Usurper (1M Battleship) Dominix 350mm Railgun II [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Railgun II [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Railgun II [80xAntimatter Charge L] 350mm Railgun II [80xAntimatter Charge L] 720mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xEMP M] 720mm Howitzer Artillery II [10xEMP M] Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Damage Control II Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Large Armor Repairer II Rigs : Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Auxiliary Nano Pump I \ Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II Ogre II 6836 shield, 9.12/s, E/T/K/Ex=12/29/47/64 13013 armor, E/T/K/Ex=74/80/80/73 6250.0 cap, +57.29/s, -52.624/s 132.0 m/s 652.0 DPS vs. Pithi Arrogator (Frigate) 545.0 DPS vs. Pithum Killer (Cruiser) 499.4 DPS vs. Pithatis Assassin (Battlecruiser) 410.9 DPS vs. Pith Usurper (1M Battleship) vs. Frigate: Raven 148.3 DPS. Dominix 652.0 DPS. Winner: Dominix by 503.7 DPS. vs. Cruiser: Raven 307.5 DPS. Dominix 545.0 DPS. Winner: Dominix by 237.5 DPS. vs. Battlecruiser: Raven 532.0 DPS. Dominix 499.4 DPS. Winner: Raven by 32.6 DPS. vs. Battleship: Raven 500.2 DPS. Dominix 410.9 DPS. Winner: Raven by 89.3 DPS. It's pretty clear that the Raven significantly better than the dominix vs. a battleship and a good bit better at battlecruisers, however, the Dominix is better vs cruisers and frigates by a truly ridiculous margin. Unfortunately these calculations take into account neither drone flight time, nor defender missiles. Both ships benefit from the lack of drone flight time, but only the Raven benefits from defenders being omitted. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Impolite Andevil The Shadow Knights Prime Orbital Systems	Posted - 2007.08.07 21:54:00 - [34] Honestly, the Nighthawk seems a better choice than a Domi if your goal is to fry the BCs and smaller ships quickly. It doesn't do the damage vs. a BS, though. I think the ultimate missioning team would be a torp CNR + HML Nighthawk.
Leandro Salazar The Blackguard Wolves	Posted - 2007.08.07 23:37:00 - [35] Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/08/2007 23:41:51 Originally by: Xaen [stuff] Unfortunately these calculations take into account neither drone flight time, nor defender missiles. Both ships benefit from the lack of drone flight time, but only the Raven benefits from defenders being omitted. Drone flight time is a 100% bigger issue for Domi with heavies. You also ignore painter effect, which any torp Raven must use to be efficient. And last but not least this topic is about CNRs, not standard Ravens. And you probably use quickfit average dps, which does not have much to do with reality. There is no 'n' in turret There is no 'r' in faction There is no 'a' in Scorpion There is no 'e' in Caldari There is no makeup in rogue drones
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.08.08 00:57:00 - [36] Originally by: Leandro Salazar Edited by: Leandro Salazar on 07/08/2007 23:41:51 Originally by: Xaen [stuff] Unfortunately these calculations take into account neither drone flight time, nor defender missiles. Both ships benefit from the lack of drone flight time, but only the Raven benefits from defenders being omitted. Drone flight time is a 100% bigger issue for Domi with heavies. You also ignore painter effect, which any torp Raven must use to be efficient. And last but not least this topic is about CNRs, not standard Ravens. And you probably use quickfit average dps, which does not have much to do with reality. Quickfit does not ignore the painter effect. Your figure regarding drone flight time is nothing more than unfounded speculation unless you have calculations that are more realistic than quickfit. Lastly, I was replying to someone who posted stats using what appears to be EFT. Quickfit is more realistic than that. EFT gives raw dps without regard to target signature radius, velocity, or distance. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.08.08 05:32:00 - [37] Originally by: Impolite Andevil Honestly, the Nighthawk seems a better choice than a Domi if your goal is to fry the BCs and smaller ships quickly. It doesn't do the damage vs. a BS, though. I think the ultimate missioning team would be a torp CNR + HML Nighthawk. I would put my isk on Torp CNR + Cruise CNR as ultimate mission running team. Both with painters. Nighthawk is v good tank and just reaps the smaller craft, but cruise raven does it almost as good and at same time packs more puntch against bigger targets (dps wise). Nighthawk dps is up to approx 400 (3x BCU + 5x Light T2 drones and heavy missiles) Cruise Raven dps is up to approx 600 (4x BCU + 5x Medium T2 drones) Altho ofc there is no doubt that Nighthawk has stronger tank (below gistii booster raven) and does more damage to frigates. It's just that frigates are not the problem in lev 4 missions usually.

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