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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.05 04:45:00 -
[1]
Hey guys,
Before I start, it'd be annoying if I were to talk about eve websites without listing mine, so I'd like to point out that the URL is in my signature and it's http://www.eve-tanking.com .
A few weeks ago, we had several threads here in gendesc about eve-online fan websites having isk-selling adverts on them. They were being generated automatically on websites using the google adsense programme. How it works is that companies buy adverts with certain keywords and websites which tend to use those keywords are given those adverts to display. It always displays the most profitable relevant adverts availible. The problem with this is that for eve related websites 90% of the adverts and all of the profitable ones were for RMT websites.
RMT stands for Real Money Trade (or something like that) and is just another way of saying people who sell isk for cash. Selling or buying isk or any in-game items (except game time codes) for cash is against the eve EULA and you will likely be banned for attempting it. Maybe not immediately but eventually.
Last month, I debated in those threads that I needed the revenue from the google ads to run my eve website and my other websites that aren't eve-related. There was much discussion that largely went nowhere, with some people saying they only click the ads to support the website, other people calling names and some people sticking up for website administrators. The fact remained that the ads provided a revenue stream and without them many websites would be unable to function.
During the thread, I asked for alternative suggestions to replace the adsense revenue stream and at the end of the discussion I decided to take one month out and actively filter out inappropriate adverts while looking for replacements or alternatives. I expected to find that it couldn't be done but I was pleasantly surprised to find that I was wrong. I'd like to share some advice and some of my observations on living without google ads:
Filtering out RMT adverts is an act in futility. Every few days, a new one pops up. If you DO filter the ads, number of clicks may drop but it in my case it didn't drop dramatically, showing that at least half the people clicking the ads are doing so to support the website. Either that or they're madmen looking for model ship building kits and fireproof blankets. If you filter the ads, revenue earned from them will hit the floor. With such little revenue, it may be desirable to terminate the ads and remove the eyesore from your website and the filtering workload.
Alternative sources of financing: If you're running a fan website that uses google adsense, you're probably wondering what can possibly compete with them and potentially replace them? Like I was, you're probably happy sitting passively doing nothing and letting the adverts run but there are alternatives. Here are the three systems that I am currently using:
#1 Eve Online's official affiliate system. Despite the complete lack of customer service or response to any mails, this system has been awesome because the adverts are really pretty and the pay for an actual signup is pretty good. Even though it pays in us dollars, a particularly weak currency at the moment, it's still nice to see your link has generated a signup or two for eve.
Each signup (person who pays for a subscription after the trial) pays you $7. On an eve fansite, you are unlikely to get many clicks. I had to advertise my link elsewhere to get a decent signup rate and have had practically none since I stopped that. You might get the occasional signup from someone googling about eve-online. These ads are really no bother to include on your website, they directly support CCP and Eve Online and they're really pretty.
Continued...
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.05 04:45:00 -
[2]
... continued.
#2 Shattered Crystal Affiliate scheme Yes, before anyone asks, that link is a referral link. You don't have to use it but if you're signing up then it'd be nice. Shattered Crystal is a licensed eve game time code supplier and your affiliate links to eve 90 day and 30 day game time codes will generate about $1.50 and $0.75 per sale respectively, more if the buyer buys multiple gtcs. This is actually a really nice affiliate system as it's directly related to eve-online, it links people to what is widely considered to be the best gtc supplier and it makes some cash of something that players are going to buy anyway without costing them extra.
This is a particularly nice scheme due to the level of interest you'll see from it. These two small links have replaced most of the revenue lost by removing the google ads all on their own. Unlike google ads, you can also draw attention toward them and ask people to please use those links when buying game time codes if they want to support your website.
#3 A paypal donation button I've had some success with these before on other sites and I have seen several eve websites pull these off well but I doubt they'll be used on my particular website. These links would work best for high profile sites that get a lot of visitors like Eve-radio, ICSC Jump Planner etc.
So we've covered the 'how' but what about the 'why'? Using the above three systems should definitely replace the cash lost through dilligently filtering your google ads and should replace most of the cash lost from removing them entirely. I reccomend complete removal as being dilligent enough to update the filter as soon as a new site pops up is going to take up far too much of people's time. The primary reason to remove the ads is that they directly support RMT and thus directly support disruptive isk-farmers in-game. The more websites that remove their ads, the less money the isk farmers will make. It's just that simple.
Another major reason or two are discussed by CCP PR & Communications Director Pann in this forum thread. Websites that host isk-selling adverts will not be allowed into the official fansite list and hopefully will not be allowed to be linked at all on the forums, in a signature or in public channels in-game. I'd like people to show support for the idea that links to websites containing isk-selling ads should not be allowed in public areas in eve in order to discourage spreading of those websites. Given that people who use them unwittingly (not knowing that it's against the EULA) may be banned, that kind of hard line rule will serve to protect more people than it will annoy.
Hopefully this has been a good enough guide to convince one or two eve fansite owners to switch off their google ads. If anyone has any comments, questions or suggestions that might be relevant, I'd like to hear them. Also, if anyone has any better ideas for affiliate schemes etc that might work better or any tips in general for running an eve fansite, this is the place to share it.
Thanks for reading : )
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
chrisreeves
Gallente Asgard Protectorate Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.05 04:49:00 -
[3]
Nice write up there bud
oh and first... or second, however you view it :) -----------------
Originally by: kieron The Ibis was never intended to be a solo OMGWTF mission-farming PWNmobile.
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Leviathani Darkri
Fatalix Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 05:00:00 -
[4]
Good read, I've bm'd your site and I'll use your links to buy my gtc's in the future.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.05 05:11:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Leviathani Darkri Good read, I've bm'd your site and I'll use your links to buy my gtc's in the future.
Good to hear, thanks mate :).
Hopefully the fact that people in the eve community are kind enough to do that will encourage others to switch from google ads to the GTC affiliate links. As an interesting side-note, I had these ads up at the same time as the google ones and the google ones detracted attention from the game time code ones, so they didn't work together until I started filtering the google ads. Site owners are better off choosing one or the other and I reccomend the gtc affiliate programme.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Callthetruth
Caldari Drunken Ratbags Inc New Eve Order
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Posted - 2007.08.05 05:33:00 -
[6]
good write up
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SteeleResolve
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 08:15:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Leviathani Darkri Good read, I've bm'd your site and I'll use your links to buy my gtc's in the future.
That. I didnt even think of using links off fan websites.
Nice write-up matey.
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Savvon
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Posted - 2007.08.05 09:58:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Savvon on 05/08/2007 09:59:23 Nice website.
As a webmaster myself, I use Google ads because I stand behind Google and their constant fight for internet freedom. They are the number one opponent against the US government in fighting the government and corporations for controlled content over the internet.
Without great companies like Google that fight for no names like ourselves, the internet would be controlled just like any other media.
What that means is, I will never do anything that hurts Google and that includes taking their ads down.
Sorry.
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Scorpyn
Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 10:11:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Savvon Edited by: Savvon on 05/08/2007 09:59:23 Nice website.
As a webmaster myself, I use Google ads because I stand behind Google and their constant fight for internet freedom. They are the number one opponent against the US government in fighting the government and corporations for controlled content over the internet.
Without great companies like Google that fight for no names like ourselves, the internet would be controlled just like any other media.
What that means is, I will never do anything that hurts Google and that includes taking their ads down.
Sorry.
Have you seen this?
2007-07-19 20:26 |
Mr M
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Posted - 2007.08.05 10:19:00 -
[10]
Great initiative Nyphur. Hopefully this will cover the costs for those who's using google ads today.
EVEgeek | EVE Tribune |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.05 11:22:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Savvon pseudo-patriotic "Google is USA, Google is freedom" nonsense
Excuse me, but haven't you noticed Google is turning more and more each day into a Microsoft-like entity ?
For starters, I suppose you HAVEN'T tried talking with Google's AdSense team about how you wouldn't like ISK selling sites advertised in your pages and been told to buzz off ? Well, several people have, if you haven't. Google doesn't care about you as a person, it cares about you as a customer... making the customer happy in general is important, dropping annoying, low-paying customers like hot potatoes is normal.
Taking their ads down from a site that will only sees any significant revenue if RMT-er links are allowed, and goes down into almost uselessness when they are filtered out ? HELL YEAH ! If all AdSense feels like it has to serve is against the EVE EULA, screw AdSense.
As for the alternatives, I can say Nyphur has the right idea.
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
Zarin
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Posted - 2007.08.05 11:29:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Savvon Edited by: Savvon on 05/08/2007 09:59:23 Nice website.
As a webmaster myself, I use Google ads because I stand behind Google and their constant fight for internet freedom. They are the number one opponent against the US government in fighting the government and corporations for controlled content over the internet.
Without great companies like Google that fight for no names like ourselves, the internet would be controlled just like any other media.
What that means is, I will never do anything that hurts Google and that includes taking their ads down.
Sorry.
If only Google had the same attitude about Eve.... They're fine lining their own pockets to destroy Eve.
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Curzon Dax
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 11:40:00 -
[13]
I clicked your ISK buying ads gleefully and repeatedly, hoping to see money pouring into your wallet and emptying from theirs.
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Savvon
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Posted - 2007.08.05 11:42:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Savvon on 05/08/2007 11:43:18 I love it when I have to defend a simple opinion.
I love a good conspiracy as much as the next guy, but you have to know what to trust and what not to trust.
Scorpyn û No, I have not seen the link you posted. That site seems to be a little dated and looks like they are having some difficulties presently.
Akita T û Actually I have kept on top of current google issues. If Google (or any company) listened to the mob mentality general public and did everything the mob wanted, then they would not be in the position they are in. That position is fighting for your internet freedom. Also, comparing them to MSÆs business model, you apparently need to do some more research on the subject. Use Google to educate you on the topic.
Zarin û This is what I meant when I was talking about mob mentality. People make a blanketed statement with absolutely no link, back up or even a little story on a blog to back it up. Eve is so small compared to Google that Google probably does not even know CCP exists. No offence CCP.
Curzon Dax - You have to purchase product for the webmaster to get profit. /rolls eyes
Nyphur - Do realize that Shattered Crystal has adverts through Google ads? It is how I found them.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.05 12:20:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/08/2007 12:22:34
Their METHODS are different, more evolved, more stealthy, more "pleasing" to the crowd of "individualists", much better adapted to today's environment. Their reasons for doing it however are the same: profit. Would be weird if it wasn't. As such, they'll eventually end up in the same basket, as they get more and more restrictive and careless, and the "evil empire" (M$) gets up to speed with the current trends. As strange as it might sound, you DO know that MS and Google are on the same side of the barricade in the "internet freedom" battle, don't you ? It's them vs the "big ISPs". And, can you guess the reason yet again ? Yes, profit !
Anyway, Savvon... your whole line of reasoning in the post you just made proves one of two things: you're either lying about being a webmaster, or you're a pretty insidious webmaster. I have no idea which one is worse. The reason I say this is because you seem to misunderstand some of the basics of what's been said here so far, and that is primarily that MOST AdSense adds that DO make ANY profit for the webmaster (using them on an EVE-fansite) whatsoever are for things that ENCOURAGE you to break EVE's EULA (i.e. buying ISK with real money directly)... because, as you so wonderfully put it, if the user BUYS a product from your link, THERE is where the real income comes from.
So, you can either use AdSense and keep indirectly supporting the RMT industry, or filter them out (in a futile battle that you're bound to lose) and get absolutely no revenue to speak of from the AdSense on your site anyway. So, which one is it ? Do you really not care about supporting RMT indirectly as long as it brings you profit ?
Also, damn... your response "to Nyphur". Are you freaking KIDDING ? What's the fact that ShCr advertises their own site ON AdSense got to do with the fact that SOME sites advertise ISK-RMT sites unwillingly through AdSense ? You're making less and less sense by each post you make.
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
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CCP Wrangler
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Posted - 2007.08.05 14:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nyphur #1 Eve Online's official affiliate system. Despite the complete lack of customer service or response to any mails, this system has been awesome because the adverts are really pretty and the pay for an actual signup is pretty good. Even though it pays in us dollars, a particularly weak currency at the moment, it's still nice to see your link has generated a signup or two for eve.
Can you send me an email and I'll see what's going on and how we can help you.
Wrangler Community Manager EVE Online
Contact Support - Contact Moderators - Report Bug - Submit News Leads - Knowledge Base Player Guide - Policies - Join ISD - Fan Submissions - DevFinder LiteÖ |
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Savvon
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Posted - 2007.08.05 14:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Akita T You're making less and less sense by each post you make.
That is because you do not understand the basics of website advertisements.
I would write you an introductory guide on the subject, but I think we both know that would be wasted time.
As far as my comment to the OP, yes of course I meant it. He is actually trying to take business away from one source to enhance his own. How most of you missed this easy to spot tactic is beyond me.
Did I mention I found Shattered Crystal through Google Ads?
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ElCoCo
KIA Corp KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.05 14:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Curzon Dax I clicked your ISK buying ads gleefully and repeatedly, hoping to see money pouring into your wallet and emptying from theirs.
LOL, nice
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Wild Rho
Amarr Endgame.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 15:04:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 05/08/2007 15:03:48
Originally by: Savvon Edited by: Savvon on 05/08/2007 15:01:24
Originally by: Akita T You're making less and less sense by each post you make.
That is because you do not understand the basics of website advertisements.
I would write you an introductory guide on the subject, but I think we both know that would be wasted time.
As far as my comment to the OP, yes of course I meant it. He is actually trying to take business away from one source to enhance his own. How most of you missed this easy to spot tactic is beyond me.
Here is a small tip off!
Nyphur wrote: Given that people who use them unwittingly (not knowing that it's against the EULA) may be banned, that kind of hard line rule will serve to protect more people than it will annoy.
So you are telling me, if I click on a Google ad on a fan site, CCP will ban me for it?
This is a scare monger tactic plain and simple.
Did I mention I found Shattered Crystal through Google Ads? I would of never found them if it were not for Google ads.
I respect anyone trying to get ahead, especially a web master. However, if they are going to make slanders against a company I support, my opinion will be heard.
Thye won't get banned for clicking that link, but they could very well get banned for making use of such a "service", in the end it's the same result.
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Savvon
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Posted - 2007.08.05 15:06:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Wild Rho Thye won't get banned for clicking that link, but they could very well get banned for making use of such a "service", in the end it's the same result.
Yes, I know this. However, the OP did not word it in such a way.
He is trying to convince us:
1. Google ads = bad
2. Ads on his website = Good
He would of had better results if he just advertised his site in my opinion.
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oDDiTy V2
Epic.
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Posted - 2007.08.05 15:13:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Savvon
Originally by: Wild Rho Thye won't get banned for clicking that link, but they could very well get banned for making use of such a "service", in the end it's the same result.
Yes, I know this. However, the OP did not word it in such a way.
He is trying to convince us:
1. Google ads = bad
2. Ads on his website = Good
He would of had better results if he just advertised his site in my opinion.
I think you need to lay off the drugs.
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Luigi Thirty
Caldari 19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2007.08.05 15:19:00 -
[22]
Don't forget! Clicking on ISK seller ads drains the AdWords account of the ISK sellers and gives the money to the website owner! ---- DOMINIX IS INVINCIBLE:(((( Miner Luigi I am! I am a lucky miner! Let me tell you why! |
Tao Han
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2007.08.05 15:58:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Savvon
Originally by: Wild Rho Thye won't get banned for clicking that link, but they could very well get banned for making use of such a "service", in the end it's the same result.
Yes, I know this. However, the OP did not word it in such a way.
He is trying to convince us:
1. Google ads = bad
2. Ads on his website = Good
He would of had better results if he just advertised his site in my opinion.
You dont happen to work for Google do you?
------ Turret: -a small tower extending above a building gun enclosure: a self-contained weapons -platform housing guns and capable of rotation
Turret people, not turrent!! |
Allen Ramses
Caldari Typo Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.05 15:59:00 -
[24]
It also bans/disables the account when you click too many times because of 'fraudulent referrals'. Not a good way to support the website. ____________________ Pimped out Raven to run level 4 missions quickly: 210 Mil ISK. Realizing your 120 Mil ISK Drake gets the job done faster: Priceless. |
Mr M
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Posted - 2007.08.05 16:06:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Mr M on 05/08/2007 16:12:00
Christ! You guys really need to lay off the tinfoil hattery once in a while.
The orignal poster said 'ISK seller ads through google ads is bad'. Pann said 'isk seller links are bad and we will remove sites with links like that'.
EVEgeek | EVE Tribune |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.05 16:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Savvon 1. Google ads = bad 2. Ads on his website = Good He would of had better results if he just advertised his site in my opinion.
I believe we have reached a point where I can safely and without any remorse say you are a MORON. Se's saying that Google AdSense ads on ANY EVE-related site are bad, because the ONLY ones that will display preferentially are EVE EULA-BREAKING sites (that sell ISK for real-life money directly).
He's saying that CCP announced that they won't ALLOW sites that display ISK selling ads to be listed as official EVE fan sites in the CCP fansite listing. Even more, he explains from personal experience that fighting to block offending ads through AdSense is a losing battle, and that anyway, after you filter THOSE out, the revenue stream is practically insignificant, so you might as well NOT use it at all. Then he proceeds to list SEVERAL OTHER ALTERNATIVES to Google's AdSense that would be acceptable from CCP's standpoint.
Do you get it now ? Or do I have to spell it over again in other, much simpler words, for a simpler mind ?
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
GPerson
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2007.08.05 16:19:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Savvon
Originally by: Wild Rho Thye won't get banned for clicking that link, but they could very well get banned for making use of such a "service", in the end it's the same result.
Yes, I know this. However, the OP did not word it in such a way.
Read it a bit closer.
~~~Sig Stuffs Here~~~ I highly recommend drunken posting. This sig has been unhighjacked since 2005. |
Radioactive Babe
Red Frost
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Posted - 2007.08.05 16:31:00 -
[28]
Someone said that you have to actually buy isk before the person who had the ad on their site actually gets some money (or words to that effect). Is that true? its flipping stupid if it is.
Its annoying that if EVE is mentioned on a page that the google ads are usually all RMT ones. Firefox + plugins stops me seeing these on my puter but on my wifes one they are maddening when I visit some EVE related pages.
I normally buy GTC's to play and so if there are any sites that also use this referral they should advertise on EVE-O so I can go through them (nothing against eve-tanking, but I like to spread my couple of GTC purchase referrals around)
Alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well |
Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.05 16:41:00 -
[29]
Well, there are several levels of "payment" from ads, depending on ad type. It starts with display (lowest possible income level, sometimes none at all), then click-through (pretty low income still, but better anyway) to subscription or purchase (being the best possible pay).
So, for instance (just a hypothetical example, not actual values), you might get 0.01 USD for 1000 links displayed, you might get 0.01 USD per 10 clicks, then 0.01 USD for each member that signs up to whatever they clicked through, and then a small percentage of purchase value made by said consumer (which could range from 0.10 USD to several dollars, depening on purchase made). Basically, most of your income comes from that last category.
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
Tortun Nahme
Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.05 16:50:00 -
[30]
trying to reason with akita is like trying to shove your little brother into an ice cream pail, sure its fun, but it is never gonig to work
Real men fly Pink.
I've been living in your cassette, It's the modern equivalent, singing up to a Capulet, on a balcony in |
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