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Suggestion: End unchecked 14-day trials.

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Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:30:00 - [1] We all know, and all hear, the constant complaints about ISK seller spam plaguing many of our most public chat channels. Now, the minute they get banned, they just turn around, fire up a new trial, and have at it again. The suggestion, then, is simple. Require 14 day trials to provide a valid credit card/PayPal account(Or whatever else CCP uses) to be able to complete the account creation. Just add a "Authorize Full Account Charge" button available on the account homepage that needs to be pressed after the 14 days are up, or the trial isn't billed. Then, any CC numbers/PayPal accounts/whatever that are used in ISK selling get banned outright, thus taking away the true ease that allows them to continue being a nuisance, but without terribly inconveniencing new prospects. (I know that if I were a new player this would be more than worth it to not have to be spammed with the same message 6 times in a row in the Rookie Help/Help channel in a matter of seconds when I'm trying to get my pressing issues answered.) Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
Radioactive Babe Red Frost	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:34:00 - [2] /signed I recently made an alt for empire hauling and the volume of EULA breaking crap on any and all noob channels was just disgusting. CCP should do something to slow it down. Alas, poor risk vs reward, I knew you well
Dark Shikari Caldari Imperium Technologies Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:37:00 - [3] 1. Split Rookie Help into a bunch of channels, and allow veterans to join to help out. 2. Ban trial account users from all trade channels. 3. Limit trial account users to 20 EVEmails per day. 4. Limit the number of different trial accounts logged on per IP to 1 or 2 per day. 1) solves the rookie help issue 2) stops the trade spam 3) stops the evemail spam without limiting actual newbies 4) stops the farmers from making thousands of accounts per day; they'll eventually run out of proxies with that sort of limit. 23 Member EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder!
DubanFP Caldari Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:40:00 - [4] Edited by: DubanFP on 05/08/2007 16:40:46 Very few people are going to start a free trial that requires credit card information, i know i wouldn't. Seeing as how EVE gets most of it's active members from trial accounts it would pretty much be suicide for EVE. ______________________ DubanFP> I stopped capitalizing the g in goonswarm a little while back. I find they no longer deserved the little bit of extra effort required to press the shift key.
Shari Vegas Minmatar Ctrl Alt Elites	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. Split Rookie Help into a bunch of channels, and allow veterans to join to help out. 2. Ban trial account users from all trade channels. 3. Limit trial account users to 20 EVEmails per day. 4. Limit the number of different trial accounts logged on per IP to 1 or 2 per day. 1) solves the rookie help issue 2) stops the trade spam 3) stops the evemail spam without limiting actual newbies 4) stops the farmers from making thousands of accounts per day; they'll eventually run out of proxies with that sort of limit. Honestly I think my suggestion handles all of that, though. No ISK/Gold/whatevergamecurrency seller has anywhere near thousands of CC numbers/online payment accounts. Wouldn't even need to worry about how many proxies they have, and their presence in any channels would be severely limited. The EVE Mail limit is a good idea though, but I'd probably say more like 10 per day max. I don't think I've sent more than 10 EVE mails a month in my entire year of playing. Originally by: CCP Wrangler I have no clue.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:45:00 - [6] Originally by: DubanFP Very few people are going to start a free trial that requires credit card information, I know I wouldn't. Seeing as how EVE gets most of it's active members from trial accounts it would pretty much be suicide for EVE. QFT, QFE. You definetely don't want to limit trial users coming in, you merely want to limit the damage of spamming alt accounts. DS's version solves most of it... the OP's suggestion might solve it too, but it would also heavily decrease signup rates. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Savvon	Posted - 2007.08.05 16:52:00 - [7] Many people actually think that changing the trial account mechanics will actually hurt Eve. However, the constant server downs and increasing lag and disconnects will not even budge subscription numbers. /boggle I agree with you if that means anything.
Barth3zzzNL Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.08.05 17:19:00 - [8] Originally by: Savvon Many people actually think that changing the trial account mechanics will actually hurt Eve. However, the constant server downs and increasing lag and disconnects will not even budge subscription numbers. Theres a difference between starting and staying. I wouldn't have started either if eve wanted a CC number up front, hell these days i dont even have a CC anymore. ---------------------------
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.05 17:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Savvon Many people actually think that changing the trial account mechanics will actually hurt Eve. However, the constant server downs and increasing lag and disconnects will not even budge subscription numbers. Current subscribers = previous subscribers + new subscribers - leaving subscribers Making signups hader only modifies "new subscriber" figures downwards, so all other things being the same, you end up with less active subscribers. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Savvon	Posted - 2007.08.05 17:36:00 - [10] See what I mean?

Manic Smile Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.05 17:50:00 - [11] How hard would it be to put trail accounts in their own instance. I mean do they really need access to the entire Eve community? It's not like things aren't limited on trail accounts already and a good majority of the community consists of noob griefers anyway. Let Eve university have it's own 'university' instance training ground where only noobs and help can enter with some basic PvE action. Maybe let Agony Unleashed have some access and have them do PvP basics and some area type PvP. It even fits into the RP as we are graduates of space school. How hard would something like this be to implement? They still get to play, they get real help and some connections, and can't mess with the paying player-base. *courtesy of www.flickr.com I hate the jpeg format.
Miki Fin Gallente Independant Union of Rangers	Posted - 2007.08.05 17:58:00 - [12] Rather than credit card, how about using a mobile phone? Authorisation code gets sent via sms rather than email.
Curzon Dax Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.05 18:01:00 - [13] How about....Trial Accounts play on Sisi? And signing up lets them play on TQ. That way, they get to experience all the great things of Eve, and it won't even cost them ISK when they lose a ship. =) Makes the NPE a little gentler, and anyone who wants to have access to new players for tutorials, whatever, can go to Sisi and do it.
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.08.05 18:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Savvon See what I mean? Yeah, I see and understand what you mean, namely that the current server conditions make more people leave. But that still doesn't change the fact that new people come in every day, especially because they get a chance to sample the game for two weeks per account as many times as they want to try it out... no matter how good or bad the server conditions might be. Overall, having harsher signup conditions WILL lead to a lower subscriber number compared to an easy trial account creation method. I hope you also understand THAT part. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
EFF ONEF1 Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.05 18:45:00 - [15] asking for a cc for a trial does not help. as the credit cards they use are stolen anyways. i dont even think it would matter as they would just get a gtc from their trillions of isk and use that anyways. its just a pothole in the road for them. they use stolen ones so that you cant ban all accounts tied to a card, as they can just get another stolen number just a quick. remember, these farmers do this for a living across multiple games. when money is involved, punches are not pulled. just like life they will "find a way". -----------------------------------------------
Drykor Minmatar Warriors of the Einherjar Fimbulwinter	Posted - 2007.08.05 20:05:00 - [16] I wouldn't ask for a credit card number if I were CCP, I probably wouldn't be playing if they did. Neither would I put them on another server, the strength (and in some ways weakness) of Eve is that everyone is on the same server. Much easier solution: a simple word filter. Set it to filter out the popular isk selling sites, and add to it when they get a new one. This requires them to at least: - get new internet domains almost every single hour, if some GM is paying attention. This is pretty hard even for them. -put new information about this domain in the spamming bots. This will slow them down ALOT at the very least. Ok, they could use a site like Tinyurl to forward things, but I doubt Tinyurl would like that, and if absolutely necessary they could always filter url forwarding sites as well. They could also 'hide' their urls, such as i-g-s-3-6-5 (damn shame I actually know one by head by now) but a simple word filter algorithm will find those too and you could still manually filter it.
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution Ministry of Information	Posted - 2007.08.05 20:09:00 - [17] Limiting the number of trial account EvEmails per day GMV. Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert - Sovereign Systems - Alliance Rank
Tsukiko Ishida Amarr Emanation Of Malevolent Outcries	Posted - 2007.08.05 20:10:00 - [18] Originally by: Curzon Dax How about....Trial Accounts play on Sisi? And signing up lets them play on TQ. That way, they get to experience all the great things of Eve, and it won't even cost them ISK when they lose a ship. =) Makes the NPE a little gentler, and anyone who wants to have access to new players for tutorials, whatever, can go to Sisi and do it. One of the better ideals I have seen on this. Though they should recycle the old hardware and separate the database and game servers for the trial accounts. By doing this, they can kill several birds with one stone. EX: 1) Less database growth 2) Loss of new players to harassment 3) Less load on the main cluster 4) Can provide a better more in-depth tutorial 5) Can be used as an alliance recruiting tool 6) Any trial account that has not become a paid account, can be deleted to save names/DB space in 30 days Brake Down: One system with 5 systems connected to it for each race. The main system can have both Applied Knowledge and War schools in same system. The other systems can be used for exploration, mining, fighting, and genial learning of the game. As for items, allow the basics at a low cost for the new players to try out, basic frigates, missiles, guns and such. Do the same with skills as well. Also, allow alliances to have offices in the stations for recruitment. Set it so they can have 2 to 4 members logon to help the new players out. Now once a new trial user hits 12 days into his subscription, send him a mail on how to upgrade his account to a paid account. Once the new player dose this, parse his account info into the main data base on downtime, with a massage that his account will take 24/48 hours to activate. When his account becomes active and he logs in, he will be at the same training school, but on the main cluster. FAILEDÖ
Cornucopian Gallente Dutch Omega	Posted - 2007.08.05 21:21:00 - [19] Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. Split Rookie Help into a bunch of channels, and allow veterans to join to help out. 2. Ban trial account users from all trade channels. 3. Limit trial account users to 20 EVEmails per day. 4. Limit the number of different trial accounts logged on per IP to 1 or 2 per day. 1) solves the rookie help issue 2) stops the trade spam 3) stops the evemail spam without limiting actual newbies 4) stops the farmers from making thousands of accounts per day; they'll eventually run out of proxies with that sort of limit. ah yes, returning to a Ds post is like returning to an old wine you love.... ahem... the above post wins. valid CC or PP account is stupid. half of europe doesn't have, or use, BOTH of those payment options. Now I wouldn't put it past some stupid american gaming company to make payment options totally fixated on CC and PP, but thank the GODS that CCP is icelandic, and owned by an bunch of icelandic venture capitalists to boot. furthermore, CC or PP account? I mean come ON. ISK sellers are an intelligent bunch, they have carved themselves a commercial niche... you think a CC or PP account will stop them for ONE second? I mean, how LONG does it take to set up a PP account? get real... I pay my EVE via Ideal thank you very much. /venting opinion, like only the internet facilitates, OFF ----------------------------------------------- "Yes... I sleep with my myrmidon. It's nothing to be ashamed of!"
Zoi Opia Raw Edge O X I D E	Posted - 2007.08.05 21:42:00 - [20] Originally by: Curzon Dax How about....Trial Accounts play on Sisi? And signing up lets them play on TQ. That way, they get to experience all the great things of Eve, and it won't even cost them ISK when they lose a ship. =) You cannot experience EVE by playing on Sisi. There's no way Sisi, even with trials added, could provide you the same experience than TQ with 30 thousand players online. And I'm not talking about lag.

ForceM Gallente POS Builder Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.05 21:49:00 - [21] the OP's suggestion is dumb . When i bought a TC i used a prepaid card ... which means NO paypal account, NO CC ... NO NOTHING. (using paypal now but thats not the point) I think Dark Shikaris ideas are good options. ----- Quote: Dun kill me eris coming to fanfest by any chance? eris GULP
Liilli Lee Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:19:00 - [22] Edited by: Liilli Lee on 06/08/2007 10:24:44 Originally by: Shari Vegas ..snip..Then, any CC numbers/PayPal accounts/whatever that are used in ISK selling get banned outright, thus taking away the true ease that allows them to continue being a nuisance, but without terribly inconveniencing new prospects. Which would be illegal, since you are not allowed to store creditcard info for other than billing. (at least in some countries around the world) I like the "trials on SISI"-idea! At least there will get some feel of EVE - granted; its not the full expierence; but hey - they are free trials!!! Cats are stupid - that is why they were given 9 lives. Dogs are smart - that is why they lick their "privates". (You would too - if you could)
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:32:00 - [23] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 06/08/2007 10:32:30 One of dark shikari suggestions is wrong though. Some ISP / university dorms / other places (internet cafe) may have a dozen to hundreds of computers, if not thousands behind a single connection and therefore one IP. A group of 5 or 6 friends trying the game at the same time would have to make half of them pay the game because of a 3 trial account / IP restriction ? This makes no sense. All other suggestions sound more or less fine though. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Balthasar Moreq	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:39:00 - [24] DS and Curzon Dax have between them pretty much figured out the ways and means of saving EVE from the horde of ISK sellers/spammers etc. that are overwhelming it atm. I hereby award the joint 1st prize for saving EVE to you gentlemen . But seriously these ideas would go a huge way to help remedy the plauge of the ISK sellers, thereby removing the attendant Macro miners/farmers which are the other scourge of genuine players.
RaTTuS BIG	Posted - 2007.08.06 10:52:00 - [25] Originally by: Dark Shikari 1. Split Rookie Help into a bunch of channels, and allow veterans to join to help out. Keeping it at one channel would be OK Originally by: Dark Shikari 2. Ban trial account users from all trade channels. Deffo on this Originally by: Dark Shikari 3. Limit trial account users to 20 EVEmails per day. Hell 20 is more than enough - 2 / day Originally by: Dark Shikari 4. Limit the number of different trial accounts logged on per IP to 1 or 2 per day. that blocks internet cafe / university's - but accruing more sdata from the machine it is logged in from .. i.e. name local Ip umm sort of thing - and only allowing 1 or 2 trial accounts / day / machine -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
Cutie Chaser Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.06 11:40:00 - [26] Not to be a killjoy, but seriously these people make their livelihood doing this. They aren't just going to roll over to a few minor inconveniences in the way. Anything you put in game thats a serious deterrent will inconvenience actual players as well, or be so easy to get around its pointless. How about this instead: 1.) One strike your out policy on ISK buying. You buy ISK and theres none of this negative wallet crap. Instead instant ban, along with a ban for all associated accounts. 2.) Make an exception in the EULA to allow a name-and-shame of all players who buy ISK. Not only are they banned, but all their friends know they are cheating frikkers who supported this ISK-spamming behavior. 3.) Forbid forum links to ANY site with ISK-selling ads as their revenue source. First violation, forum ban forever. 4.) A tip line allowing people to eve-mail in the names of anyone they have reason to believe is buying ISK. Costs 50mil to submit a tip, but pays out 750mil if they find out you are correct. (The cost is to stop people from reporting people without good reason). 5.) Pre-ban people who are banned for buying ISK from future CCP games. And from attending any CCP run activity, including Fanfairs or CCG tourney's. Hell, deny them temporary visa's to visit Iceland! Convince the world that ISK selling supports terrorism, and add them to the no-fly list! (Obviously only the first 2 sentences of this suggestion are serious!) If there wasn't a market for it, people wouldn't buy it. The problem isn't the sellers, its the people supporting them. *** Thats a Templar, the amarr fighter. Its a combat drone used by carriers.
Nestor II	Posted - 2007.08.06 12:04:00 - [27] Have all newbie systems be one way, when you roll a trial account you are in a constellation that only trials can be in. No ingame emails can leave the new zone, no communication can leave the new zone, effectively locking out all spam till they get a paying account. But by then the account will be flagged if they spam in the newbie zone.
FreelancerAlpha	Posted - 2007.08.06 12:52:00 - [28] I like the idea of interns/volunteers or whatever attending the main channels where the spam occurs, and banning anyone who spams and adding the spammed URL to a filter list. There is obviously enough anger about the issue that you'd get all kinds of volunteers for the task. Banning the volunteer's main account if they mis-use the power should be a sufficient deterrent from power hungry idiots banning legitimate players. The evemail daily limit is good too. If you know its there, you'll keep your evemail limited to "can I convo you?". No need for multiple replies.
Balthasar Moreq	Posted - 2007.08.08 07:37:00 - [29] Edited by: Balthasar Moreq on 08/08/2007 07:39:02 Edited by: Balthasar Moreq on 08/08/2007 07:38:17 Edited by: Balthasar Moreq on 08/08/2007 07:37:16 Also, add an additional section to the tutorial, which is 'mandatory'. This section outlines and details the EULA regarding ISK buying and RMT in general. Put the wind up n00bs regarding the ban stick because its my contention that lots of new'ish players buy ISK, anybody thats played for more than a few months and has invested in their character would be stooopid to buy ISK and risk a ban. Edit: spelling meh...
Gojyu Gallente Ever Flow FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.08 07:53:00 - [30] Quote: 1. Split Rookie Help into a bunch of channels, and allow veterans to join to help out. 2. Ban trial account users from all trade channels. 3. Limit trial account users to 20 EVEmails per day. 4. Limit the number of different trial accounts logged on per IP to 1 or 2 per day. 1. Agreed with the first part, there's already a way to do the second- submit your app to isd today :) 2. If you're just talking the official ones, sure, but things like jita local is where most people will encounter them, and you can't really reinforce that 3. Agreed, even maybe 3-4, I know I used the system maybe twice in my trial 4. Won't work in a world with proxies To the op- There's no chance in hell I'd sign up to a trial of a game that wants my credit card details, and I'd say there's more than a fair share of players that wouldn't either Quote: How about....Trial Accounts play on Sisi? Again- Just think from a new player's standpoint- I play for two weeks, I pay them money, then I have to start entirely from scratch- No thanks.



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