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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
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CCP Sharkbait
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Posted - 2007.08.07 14:43:00 -
[1]
News Post
in a effect to try and reproduce this, i need as many people to log onto sisi, go to fd-mlj and attach a starbase there. we will be starting around 5pm tonight and going as long as we need to.
i have a special debugging client which is having further modifications done to it in the hope that we can reproduce this there and maybe find out the problem. there is 2-3 others who will be helping with the debugging.
while all that is happening, we will also be profiling the client to see where all the CPU is going and hopefully find something interesting from that.
we also have a plan to profile the server, but there is more work needed in setting that up and we need to do it inhouse. more details on that soon, maybe. 
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Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.07 14:47:00 -
[2]
Actually I'm fairly convinced that it's not really combat related...
2007-07-19 20:26 |
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CCP Redundancy
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Posted - 2007.08.07 14:48:00 -
[3]
Edited by: CCP Redundancy on 07/08/2007 14:50:12
I love the smell of profiling in the morning... evening.
PS. if you think you know what it is related to, please post whatever you've noticed and your reasons. At the moment, we're chasing down possibilities, but it seems very difficult to reproduce it outside of a fleet / POS fight (at least locally, when you're 1 person looking for it and not 30,000 on TQ).
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torswin
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Posted - 2007.08.07 14:52:00 -
[4]
Should we be running logserv?
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Spoony
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Posted - 2007.08.07 14:58:00 -
[5]
I think it is all to do with just bumping, simple as it may sound.
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Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.07 14:59:00 -
[6]
Desync is caused in certain cases when a huge amount of bumping goes on; if a mothership gets bumeped by a ton of ships trying to warp the client will often think it got away when it didn't... or vice versa.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Scorpyn
Caldari
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:03:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: CCP Redundancy
PS. if you think you know what it is related to, please post whatever you've noticed and your reasons. At the moment, we're chasing down possibilities, but it seems very difficult to reproduce it outside of a fleet / POS fight (at least locally, when you're 1 person looking for it and not 30,000 on TQ).
Actually the only reason why I think it's not combat related is because I've had desyncs with a non-combat alt that was just travelling, but it's ofc still a possibility that combat is related to it since others may have been fighting in the same system/node/grid without me noticing or really having any way of knowing it.
Unfortunately I don't really have any good idea as to what's causing it, other that the suggestion I had before where I said that I thought it might be related to session changes. After all, similar issues were showing up before the session timer - perhaps it needs to be extended, or fixed "properly".
Well, at least that's where I'd start looking, no idea if I'm close to the truth or as far off as I could possibly be 
As for the bumping suggestions above, that may also be a possibility (and it does seem to cause problems, so it's definitely something that should be looked into), but I've had some issues while logging in before the ship did the auto-warp-back, which is why I have the theory that I have.
Otoh, it just may be that we're talking about more than 1 issue, which should make it even more difficult to narrow it down.
2007-07-19 20:26 |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:03:00 -
[8]
spawn a few titans and motherships, and then have everyone bump them in one gaint messy ball of bumping, and then see if they can warp away and have the fight start after that?
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I'm working my way through college
target CCP
Quote:
CCP posted a new dev blog, they are going to bring Nos in line with.....well....logic
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Kobanashi Laro
Intergalactic Serenity
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:10:00 -
[9]
Actually I desynched in a low number fight ones. I engaged a single target at a gate and started shooting it. Two more friendlies jumped in opening fire on the target and destroyed it. At that point I was desynched already with the target still in space but not on overview and me unable to warp away. target was destroyed on this occasion already, pod also. Nothing I got aware of. I had to relog.
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Deacon Ix
Ascendant Strategies Inc.
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:10:00 -
[10]
I had a desynch when undocking in a freighter in a low sec system,
only about 5 in local, 2 of which where corp mates.
made me slightly nervous to say the least
Originally by: Steini OFSI
The most efficient way to get a dev response is to have the word beer somewhere in your thread.
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hydraSlav
Synergy Evolved
Fallen Souls
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:11:00 -
[11]
Dude, its not about attacking a POS. Get people on test server, split them into equal groups, have one side on gate, another waiting in another system. Then on command, everyone jumps in. Then watch those that jump in battle heavy lag (but still continue to be connected), and watch those already in system desynch and die without knowing it.
==
Above comments are my personal views
Oveur >Local shouldn't be a tactical tool, it's for chat
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:19:00 -
[12]
Define desynch in the context of eve and how it may present itself. I've had it before and know what it means but some people may hold useful information and not know. What is CCP's definition of desynch and how does it present in eve gameplay? Have the developers ever noticed desynch?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:19:00 -
[13]
Why is the last word in the title spelled backwards? :)
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:20:00 -
[14]
Good luck. Im leaving my apartment in 5 mins for a few days, so I wont be there, but hope you manage to get some good data.
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Why is the last word in the title spelled backwards? :)
Severe OCD?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Jim McGregor
Why is the last word in the title spelled backwards? :)
Severe OCD?
I noticed it wasnt only the last word either, so I changed my post to not look stupid. So thanks for quoting me! 
Anyway, bye bye. 
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Originally by: CCP Wrangler
You're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, thats what hello kitty online is for.
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Chronus26
Gallente
Team Laser Explosion
Molotov Coalition
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:24:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Desync is caused in certain cases when a huge amount of bumping goes on; if a mothership gets bumeped by a ton of ships trying to warp the client will often think it got away when it didn't... or vice versa.
Im with DS and Scorpyn, I've only experienced Desynchs 2 or 3 times since it became a major issue, usualy when I undock my Freighter from Rens M8 and get bumped halfway to hell and back. Its the area i'd be looking into for clues atleast.
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Tarminic
Black Flame Industries
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Chronus26
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Desync is caused in certain cases when a huge amount of bumping goes on; if a mothership gets bumeped by a ton of ships trying to warp the client will often think it got away when it didn't... or vice versa.
Im with DS and Scorpyn, I've only experienced Desynchs 2 or 3 times since it became a major issue, usualy when I undock my Freighter from Rens M8 and get bumped halfway to hell and back. Its the area i'd be looking into for clues atleast.
Really? Hrm, that's interesting - first time I've heard that. Now I have to re-examine all my desync theories. 
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Whiners - Unite!
Tarminic - 25 Million SP in Forum Warfare. |
Dark Shikari
Caldari
Imperium Technologies
Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:31:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Chronus26
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Desync is caused in certain cases when a huge amount of bumping goes on; if a mothership gets bumeped by a ton of ships trying to warp the client will often think it got away when it didn't... or vice versa.
Im with DS and Scorpyn, I've only experienced Desynchs 2 or 3 times since it became a major issue, usualy when I undock my Freighter from Rens M8 and get bumped halfway to hell and back. Its the area i'd be looking into for clues atleast.
Actually, that reminds me... I have gotten desynced 70-90% of the time that I've undocked my freighter from Jita and tried to warp through all the ships stuck there: before Revelations 2.
23 Member
EVE Video makers: save EVE-files bandwidth! Use the H.264 AutoEncoder! |
Lady Trade
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:34:00 -
[20]
I very much appreciate that CCP is now taking some serious action about this issue!
THIS is the way to handle such problems. It doesn't only show that CCP is really trying to fix what the playerbase finds bad but it also gives you the feeling that you are being taken seriously as a customer.
If you find the problem, Sharkbait, then I'll give your player character 50 mil ISK and a few beers at the next player meet.
I'll be on SiSi at 1700h with both my accounts. Let's hope we can reproduce this damn error and get it fixed before I forget how fleet battles work.
Thanks in advance to all the Debuggers. I hope you don't have to work overtime because of it. |
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CCP Redundancy
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:36:00 -
[21]
Keep the information coming, it's all interesting.
Bumping has always been the most likely culprit of client simulation divergence showing up noticeably, but it's interesting that this may be related to either large ships or ships with large amounts of items in them that could *possibly* cause some sort of issue if the server took a long time to load the inventory on a session change etc.
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Imhothar Xarodit
Minmatar
Wolverine Solutions
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:38:00 -
[22]
Actually I think a much better reproduction scenario was a Mothership with 25 fighters being bashed by 100+ people, including bumping and all of it (better no dreads etc so it takes a while).
Get bubbled randomly and try to warp out and see if it happens as that seems to be happening to alot of motherships which got blown up until now (client sitting safely at POS but stil being shot at somewhere a few AUs away).
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:38:00 -
[23]
To be honest, I think desynch is inevitable in online games. What's required is for the server to dictate the state of objects more aggressively to the client. I don't know if there's any error checking already used but the server and client should be able to work out that they're out of synch and resynch. Most online games where position is important have a resynch feature and usually they're automatic.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Farham
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:45:00 -
[24]
As some have already said, one of the easiest ways to reproduce the problem is to have Super caps (4-6) at a gate with a good amount of support.
Have as many enemy (100+) jump through that gate to attack. Make sure wrecks are abundant near the super caps as they try and get off the gate via warp.
Watch the hilarity ensue.
POSes might have similar desync ability but so far, most of the bad desyncs have been around gate brawls.
Intrepid Crossing Diplomat and All Around Major Idiot |
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:50:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Farham
POSes might have similar desync ability but so far, most of the bad desyncs have been around gate brawls.
I haven't noticed any desynch problems with POS but all my reactors are missing 50 hours output this week but did take the input materials for those hours. Oh christ... I thought I was just going mad all this time but this time I even have screenshots and I recorded levels in a text file and everything.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
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CCP Redundancy
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Posted - 2007.08.07 15:51:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nyphur
To be honest, I think desynch is inevitable in online games. What's required is for the server to dictate the state of objects more aggressively to the client. I don't know if there's any error checking already used but the server and client should be able to work out that they're out of synch and resynch. Most online games where position is important have a resynch feature and usually they're automatic.
Destiny already does this (like when it winds back time and you go behind your trails). What we're looking for is something that isn't caught by the myriad things that are in place to prevent this already.
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Nyphur
Pillowsoft
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Posted - 2007.08.07 16:10:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Nyphur on 07/08/2007 16:10:30
Originally by: CCP Redundancy
Destiny already does this (like when it winds back time and you go behind your trails). What we're looking for is something that isn't caught by the myriad things that are in place to prevent this already.
See, I assumed it did, which means the problem you're chasing is perhaps the wrong one. It sounds like you're trying to find out what is causing the desynch when you should be trying to find out why it's not being detected. Or is that what this test is about?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Alex Under
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.08.07 16:18:00 -
[28]
This is just theory of mine, but has anyone looked at "HEAT" being a culprit? After all, this whole desync stuff only started happening after it was introduced. From my understanding, EVE send information back and forth between all the ships in system, so now with "HEAT", it now also has to relay that information to all the other ships/pilots in system. Similar to how everyone's bookmarks and other information is shared to all other pilots in system, I am guessing so is HEAT.
I find that desync has no bearing on how many people you have in system but may have something to do with information not being relayed properly between the ships/pilots in the same system. Because relogging ususally fixes the desync problem so perhaps on relogging the information is then properly passed along to everyone? Who knows... it's just a theory of mine. But perhaps can be looked at?
"...Amateurs do it until they get it right, Professionals do it until they can't get it wrong..." |
Flamewave
Scorn Again.
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Posted - 2007.08.07 16:19:00 -
[29]
You know, even though I haven't experienced a major desync on TQ yet, before the Vista compatability patch I was on sisi and quite a few people had gathered in FFA to shoot an Avatar titan. When the titan went to warp back to the station, the pilot (a BH at the time as I recall) canceled the warp. Even though he canceled it, on my screen and most everyone else's it looked like he had warped off and we were subsequently shooting a titan at 30AU.
Something to look for I guess.
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Athena Attom
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Posted - 2007.08.07 16:19:00 -
[30]
Just saw the news item, may I suggest rather than attacking a pos we attack a super capital? The general de-sync seems to be fixed or I have not had the issue apart from possibly grid not loading when large fleet fights happen.
Super capitals de-sync when a large amount of people are attacking it... why not attack it in order to see why it desyncs rather than a static pos which no one gives a crap about if it dies rather than the 40b mothership or the 100b titan ;)?
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