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Angmar Da'Kirith
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Posted - 2007.08.08 19:41:00 -
[1]
Hi! After reading lots of "torps are better than cruises", "cruises are better than torps" I'd like your opinion about mix them using a target painter and what's the best ratio for a raven and a CNR. Thanks!
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.08.08 20:23:00 -
[2]
If you're wasting a slot on a target painter I would go all Torps.
Most of the uber times for running L4 missions that I have seen are with Torps but they also used billions in faction mods so it may not "scale down" to T2 fitted Raven.
Personally I fly a T2 Cruise Raven with T2 drones and a pair of best named 425's. At the moment I am proud to say that I make about 25M an hour flying a purely T2 (well aside from the named 425's) fitted Raven. It uses active hardeners but passive shield extenders and PDS's. I want to move to a pirate faction so I'm practicing using a completely non-faction Raven to get through all of the L4's. I haven't tried WC yet but I can do all of the others and if it gets popped I'm out less than 200M so I'm not too worried about taking it to low sec...what was my point? Oh right, either will work and while torps seem to be the choice of the uber mission runners, cruise are much easier to fit and to use and definitely give good results.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Ductus Exemplo
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Posted - 2007.08.08 20:31:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Angmar Da'Kirith Hi! After reading lots of "torps are better than cruises", "cruises are better than torps" I'd like your opinion about mix them using a target painter and what's the best ratio for a raven and a CNR. Thanks!
There is no best mix. Use either all torps or all cruise and train the skill for whichever you use up to tech II. Unless of course you want to train both of them up to tech II... ------------
Improvize. Adapt. Overcome. |
l'ga Rathorn
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Posted - 2007.08.08 22:27:00 -
[4]
torps all the way.
decent skills, cnr, faction torps, 3x CN BCS and 3x PWNAGE painters you can one volley destroyers, cruisers, and battlecruisers. BS drop faster to torps than cruise, HAC's drop quicker to torps + painters than cruise. Frigs die to drones regardless.
If you're on T2 gear though, stick with cruises. They're much easier on the wallet and much better for non-faction tanks.
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Scordef
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Posted - 2007.08.09 03:10:00 -
[5]
Never mix your drinks.
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Slayton Ford
Uninvited Guests
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Posted - 2007.08.09 05:11:00 -
[6]
I find that it matters who your going against. For Serpentis or Gurista, Torps are better due to the inane amount of defenders (Serp are the worst). For Angel, Cruise is better since they get in close. --------------- This sig has been censored in fear of recieving the ban hammer... |
Angmar Da'Kirith
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Posted - 2007.08.09 05:18:00 -
[7]
Thanks to all for your feedback. I'd like to know the reasons why mix is worst like different missile flight time or whatelse. To me if for example you need 6 volley of cruise for BS and 3 volley with torps mix them should be 4 or 5, isn't it? For cruiser using target painter can be the same of all cruise volley (with something like 3 cruise, 3 torps).
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Carniflex
Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project
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Posted - 2007.08.09 05:27:00 -
[8]
Mixsing is bad bcos with torps you need to manually adjust what they shoot at (stop them when enough fire is in air and switch to next target). If you mix cruise missiles in there you cant quite do that reliably enough due to different missile speed and RoF's. All you are doing with mix is lowering your dps against big targets while still not being quite effective against smaller.
Cheap torp fit on CNR is possible, altho you can reliably squeeze in just one target painter, but thats quite enough to one volley BC's.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.09 06:55:00 -
[9]
"Cruise are better" beacuse they're MUCH easier to fit, do the job quite well without painters, and can take on smaller ships succesfully. "Torps are better" because you can't beat the DPS they have against large targets (for Angels you want a painter anyway), but you'd better find other ways to deal with frigates (drones preferably).
In L4 missions, usually torps do a much faster job overall (in the hands of an experienced pilot), because of the abundance of battleship-sized targets compared to the smaller ones. However, it might mean a much more expensive setup as a Cruise setup, with several faction or best named "somethings" (BCUs, booster), because you lack the CPU to fit it all otherwise (compared to T2). You can make a "full T2 fit" with cruises easily, not so easy with siege launchers (or you're forced to sacrifice BCUs, maybe even add a coproc, etc).
Basically, if you can (aford to) make a fit without fiting mods using torps, and you have decent drone skills (T2 meds preferably), go with all siege. Otherwise, go with cruise.
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Roy Gordon
Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium
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Posted - 2007.08.09 07:50:00 -
[10]
Well, from my side, after a lot of experimentation, I've found the best combo for lvl 4 mission running is to fit 4 arbalest Torps and 2 Arbalest Cruise launchers. This gives good damage potential against big and small rats. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest! |
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Kwint Sommer
Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion
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Posted - 2007.08.09 08:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Roy Gordon Well, from my side, after a lot of experimentation, I've found the best combo for lvl 4 mission running is to fit 4 arbalest Torps and 2 Arbalest Cruise launchers. This gives good damage potential against big and small rats.
I should probably keep this constructive but when you present yourself as an expert, "after a lot of experimentation," I have to question how you never got around to using T2 launchers. Splitting gives you more damage on paper but you can't efficiently manage mixed velocity missiles. If you really were the highly experienced mission runner you present yourself as you would be quite aware of this. I will stick with the advice of every other poster in the thread: pick one and only one.
It pretty much comes down to a question of whether you want a cheap and easy to use Raven (Cruise) or a multi-billion CNR setup that will blast through L4's if you micromanage your missiles.
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Crazy Yuri
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Posted - 2007.08.09 10:38:00 -
[12]
I usually have a wingman on my missions. Torp Raven + Heavy missile Drake
Cruise missiles are more versatile and do better vs small targets. If you really know how to micro manage Torps and have good drone skills to kill the small ships, then a Torp Raven is going to be better off. Since I normally have a Drake killing the small stuff for me, I can concentrate on the big ships.
If there is going to be a couple of BS but mostly frigates and cruisers I swap my Torps for cruises. So the long answer would be, "Depends on the mission"
I think cruise ammo is cheaper than Torp ammo.
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Morp p'LLoran
Mercenaries of Andosia Veritas Immortalis
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Posted - 2007.08.09 12:48:00 -
[13]
My mission slave have quite successfully used for a long time when his skills was still to low for a full rack of torps. Initially I used it on a few missions to test the torp vs cruise question myself, but it worked so well over just cruise, I continued using it, just increasing the amount of torp launchers as my skills grew. Salvo management is easy once you learn how many salvo's are needed to take down a specific rat. Currently my alt is flying a 2 Target painter, full torp CNR with faction fittings , all bought over 7 or so months using the 3-3 split setup. I have torp 5 and cruise 4, and it will stay that way for a long time still. One tip - unless you have a gisti C XL booster or better - it might be wise to not include a target painter at this stage, tank is more important. And for torp Signature Focusing is your friend
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Roy Gordon
Caldari The Star Wolves Aunni Ti Tsuun Consortium
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Posted - 2007.08.09 15:32:00 -
[14]
I would not consider myself an 'expert', rather I'd consider myself 'experienced'. As you should know, experience of how many torps and cruise are needed to kill each type of rat means that you can easily mix and match. I very rarely waste torps/cruise this way. I get the best of both worlds using my setup. That which does not kill us makes us stronger. The Universe is ruled by three basic principles- Matter, Energy and Enlightened Self-Interest! |
Xaen
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.08.09 15:35:00 -
[15]
Neither is better overall. But the factors that matter: Torps are relatively slow, insane DPS vs battleships, and are virtually immune to defenders, but are worthless vs. anything much smaller than a BC. Cruise are faster, better vs. smaller targets, but defender food.
If I were to fly Caldari I'd go with torps and back them up with some really good drone skills. When I did fly a raven I remember cruisers being a ridiculous pain in the ass for the raven despite medium drones. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not. |
pandymen
Caldari Red Dwarf Mining Corporation space weaponry and trade
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Posted - 2007.08.09 18:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: pandymen on 09/08/2007 18:02:51 It's also important to note that skills wise, torps take less skills to get started with, and further skilling of torps to 5 is a prereq for citadel torps if you ever plan on using a dread.
Edit: My mission raven has torps, and it has no problem killing almost all the cruisers. With a target painter, this becomes even easier
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Koryvarn
Amarr Liberty Rogues
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Posted - 2007.08.09 18:17:00 -
[17]
with my crap missile skills (550k) I tend to use 4 torps and 2 cruise though sometimes 3 and 3 if it's a mission with lots of frigs / cruisers.
It requires more micromanagement but is less time consuming than trying to blast down a fast cruiser with torps. And no need to waste a mid slot on a target painter.
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MrRookie
Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.09 18:36:00 -
[18]
Torp Raven all the way, especially on the AE4. The good thing on the bonus stage is that you get full agro so there is no reason not to launch drones asap and let them work on the smaller ships. The torps should be used to blast the BS fromt he start.
With some dread/navy hardners, which isn't all that expensive btw, you can easily fitt a full rack of T2 torp launchers, navy xl-boster and the rest of the mods T2. Makes the stage peanutt butter Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
May I have pink next time plz? |
Chainsaw Plankton
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Posted - 2007.08.09 20:45:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Crazy Yuri I usually have a wingman on my missions. Torp Raven + Heavy missile Drake
Cruise missiles are more versatile and do better vs small targets. If you really know how to micro manage Torps and have good drone skills to kill the small ships, then a Torp Raven is going to be better off. Since I normally have a Drake killing the small stuff for me, I can concentrate on the big ships.
If there is going to be a couple of BS but mostly frigates and cruisers I swap my Torps for cruises. So the long answer would be, "Depends on the mission"
I think cruise ammo is cheaper than Torp ammo.
woo yay for wingmen!
depending on the mission i may switch from torps to cruise. cant rember which ones though, been a bit since I've done it. and then massive attack i just switch to the drake.
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Oprahh
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Posted - 2007.08.10 15:22:00 -
[20]
I don't know why people say torps are worthless against small ships. You can 1-volley most frigs and interceptors as they MWD toward you. And with two painters, I can kill elite frigs almost as fast as my tech II drones do.
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iudex
Caldari Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.10 20:20:00 -
[21]
I think those who tell not to mix torps and cruises are right.
a) The skills are diffrent. As a torp user you don't have to train precision skills (2 skills that don't apply to torp) and as someone said you don't want to train torp and cruis to 5 and then specialization. Cruise spec is a x8 skill for example, takes longer than torps.
b) There are those new damage increase implants, 3 or 5% more damage, either cruise or torp, you can't have both so they only would apply to some of your launchers if you mix.
Can't tell you for sure whats overall better as i only trained cruises (5.4 mil sp in missiles, while having torps at lvl 3 only). If you like to do really a lot of missions, cruises are maybe a better choice, as you can do a many missions with f.o.f cruises, being half-afk (means you only have to look at your screen evry 3 minutes and push f1-f7). I have a faction standing of 9.99 for example, did this with combat lvl4s .... if i had to do all this with torps i'd be probably insane by now
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MrRookie
Caldari Dark and Light inc. D-L
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Posted - 2007.08.11 01:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: iudex I think those who tell not to mix torps and cruises are right.
a) The skills are diffrent. As a torp user you don't have to train precision skills (2 skills that don't apply to torp) and as someone said you don't want to train torp and cruis to 5 and then specialization. Cruise spec is a x8 skill for example, takes longer than torps.
b) There are those new damage increase implants, 3 or 5% more damage, either cruise or torp, you can't have both so they only would apply to some of your launchers if you mix.
Can't tell you for sure whats overall better as i only trained cruises (5.4 mil sp in missiles, while having torps at lvl 3 only). If you like to do really a lot of missions, cruises are maybe a better choice, as you can do a many missions with f.o.f cruises, being half-afk (means you only have to look at your screen evry 3 minutes and push f1-f7). I have a faction standing of 9.99 for example, did this with combat lvl4s .... if i had to do all this with torps i'd be probably insane by now
There is only one skill that doesn't affect torps and thats the guided missile precision skill (missile sig radius). The other one target navigation prediction (missile explotion speed) affects all missiles.
Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
May I have pink next time plz? |
Edu Journeyman
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.08.12 00:32:00 -
[23]
Originally by: MrRookie
Originally by: iudex I think those who tell not to mix torps and cruises are right.
a) The skills are diffrent. As a torp user you don't have to train precision skills (2 skills that don't apply to torp) and as someone said you don't want to train torp and cruis to 5 and then specialization. Cruise spec is a x8 skill for example, takes longer than torps.
b) There are those new damage increase implants, 3 or 5% more damage, either cruise or torp, you can't have both so they only would apply to some of your launchers if you mix.
Can't tell you for sure whats overall better as i only trained cruises (5.4 mil sp in missiles, while having torps at lvl 3 only). If you like to do really a lot of missions, cruises are maybe a better choice, as you can do a many missions with f.o.f cruises, being half-afk (means you only have to look at your screen evry 3 minutes and push f1-f7). I have a faction standing of 9.99 for example, did this with combat lvl4s .... if i had to do all this with torps i'd be probably insane by now
There is only one skill that doesn't affect torps and thats the guided missile precision skill (missile sig radius). The other one target navigation prediction (missile explotion speed) affects all missiles.
FoF don't apply to Torps too
Being permajammed in Guristas missions or doing missions in low sec without the possibility of using FoF just scares me
Be your journeys long and prosperous. Treat the others as you like to be treated. Rude and fool are enemies. |
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