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Dawson Caldari FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.09 10:21:00 - [151] The games been up the shoot for some time now, remember when the big coalition attack on MC stations, think it was for that debatable mothership? Well there must of been a good 1000 people fighting over a few systems, there was lag and it became unplayable at points but what do you expect with 1000 odd pilots Anyway the point i'm trying to make back then we could actually do stuff, fleet fights were sorta able. Now we cant even get fights when there 30 people not to mention 300 odd. People should really make a stand, there quite clearly a problem and so far appears ccp are doing nothing to address it, there just ignoring it. maybe if we all agree enough is enough instead of asking people when they leave the game can we have there stuff. The way I see it i'm paying a monthly subscription for a services i'm not getting. For example if this was my ISP I'd be demanding a refund, and getting some sort of compensation. At the moment i'm paying for the subscription, not playing the game, and hopeing ccp will fix it. I think the problem with that attitude is if ccp see no loss in subscription from a business point of few there in no state of emergency to fix the job.
Groox Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.09 11:29:00 - [152] Edited by: Groox on 09/08/2007 11:29:25 Originally by: Z3r0n ... i vote for turnbased fleet battles! That's not bad idea at all. CCP should make even chessEsque low graphics interface for that.
Centauris Gallente Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.09 11:29:00 - [153] Damn this lag everyone speaks of must be new to fleet battles or something ___________________________________________________ MY SIG WAS TO BIG APPARENTLY, TOOK YOU LONG ENOUGH FFS Bring on the shooty shooty...Im Uberl33t with MS Paint! "Kill, Collect, Sell"
Dont Look	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:08:00 - [154] Could have bin an awsome fight. Waited 3 hours for the fight, to be desynced and then killed when finaly manage to warp to the gate. I wonder what steroids the crusader who were the "only one" at the battle field were on This is what I saw when getting lown up. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0708/Super_crusader.jpg
Fitz Chivalry eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:14:00 - [155] Originally by: Z3r0n ... i vote for turnbased fleet battles! I would actually really enjoy that, but then my favourite games of all time are the old X:Com series. Turn based games are the only way to make the game fair for the over 30's! Or maybe play-by-email.
Gunship Amarr FATAL REVELATIONS FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:27:00 - [156] Originally by: Butter Dog You guys have incredibly short and selective memories. I can recall when 50 V 50 was a 'big deal' and caused massive, unplayable lag - the kind you now experience with 200 v 200. That lag doesnt happen so much anymore in fights of that size... In fact the servers have improved dramatically over the years in terms of their ability to host larger fights, but clearly there is a limit on the technical capabilities. only quoted some of it... . you are right, but eve got more people and apart from the drone regions, no new space has been make making more players living in less space, warp to 0 have made movment of larger fleets a lot more easy, so as an exampe it relative easy for use to put 400 people in V7 as it is for razor to get 400 in S-E. Knowing the above last night but with 200 people eager to fight we tried our best to have fun last night. We did no go strat to S-E and jump in and we moved out of the R-Y system to engage in a none pos/station system. I think this needs to be addressed on two fronts: A) Development and fixes are needed, but Devs also need to consider fleet movements or size of space. The introduction of "bombers" to split gangs is no good if lag/desync prevents it to be carried out with the pressition thats required. Forget about cyno jammers, just put 300 people in the system. Forget about Heat, just allow me to activate my guns. Forget about gang bonuses and wings, fancy graphics and other stuff that may lag me out. Just give me FUN! B) AL needs to talk and if at all possible try and make it more fun for all involved. I think there is a bit of responsability to be placed on CEOs & Alliance leaders to work with CCP and each other to get us where we need to go. 4 years of trials and fun for all should not be waisted. It does make me sad to see vets leave becasue of the lag monster. So you want to join us?
Jerat Gallente Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:29:00 - [157] Could have bin an awsome fight. Waited 3 hours for the fight, to be desynced and then killed when finaly manage to warp to the gate. I wonder what steroids the crusader who were the "only one" at the battle field were on This is what I saw when getting lown up. Crusader on steroids
Gone'Postal Minmatar Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2007.08.09 12:42:00 - [158] Originally by: yieasase anybody wants a fraps of this fight? from the sound of it, just use a screenshot. ---- Originally by: Drykor Customer service my ***. Can't Fix, Won't Fix.
d026 THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.09 13:06:00 - [159] my mate got pwned by a gurista on the gate while desynced.. i somehow timed out and couldnt logg in again.. the battle later in the night was competze÷ly lagg free tough..
Milton Keynes Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2007.08.09 16:12:00 - [160] All of you please!! Quit yer whining! We now have groundbreaking new features like HEAT and will soon be able to walk in stations! So who really cares about a little desync now and then? It's a fair exchange for the "cool" new content, isn't it?
Mr Broker Station Gremlings	Posted - 2007.08.09 16:20:00 - [161] GET RID OF HEAT AND FLEET BONUSES
Whalesaver mega mining corporation Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.09 16:39:00 - [162] This is why my two accounts have just been cancelled. The game does not currently work and to be frank fleet warfare is supposed to be the end game, it's why I trained and saved for a carrier. No you can't have my stuff My Chimera will be mothballed, and my characters remain dormant until the forums confirm that these issues have been mitigated. Whether this is through a change in the broken POS game mechanics, instanced PVP or just investing some of that juicy turnover in more capable hardware I really don't care. Vote with your feet people, or all you are going to end up with is walking in stations, a new graphics engine but the same broken end game. ----------------------- Doesn't shoot first Will ask questions later And enjoys a nice cup of tea
Aerick Dawn Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.09 16:50:00 - [163] Some of these fleet battles have the life or death of an alliance on the line, and when the game prevents anyone's well thought out tactics/strategy, I find it very hard to renew my subscription. What I find completely ********, is CCP's non-action when it comes to reimbursing players when they lose ships, especially capital assets due to these issues. you need to put in the mechanics to limit system population, or something else, because this isn't working. Extraneous network traffic needs to be conglomerated into macro values when a fleet hits a certain size. __________________ If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong.
Orree Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:44:00 - [164] Originally by: Butter Dog You guys have incredibly short and selective memories. I can recall when 50 V 50 was a 'big deal' and caused massive, unplayable lag - the kind you now experience with 200 v 200. That lag doesnt happen so much anymore in fights of that size... In fact the servers have improved dramatically over the years in terms of their ability to host larger fights, but clearly there is a limit on the technical capabilities. The trouble here is that the players ability to form ever-larger blobs is outpacing CCP's ability to upgrade the hardware. Things ARE better - if you go back to 50 v 50, and compare the performance from 2 years ago to now, its massively improved. Still not perfect but it has come a long way. Its easy to lose sight of that, but honestly why anyone would expect 200 v 200 to be playable is beyond me. We all know it wont be. You know your screen probably won't load, you know you wont be able to activate your modules etc... just like it used to be in fights of 30 v 30 a few years ago. There is no "short-sightedness" and "selective memories" here. Not that what you say is completely wrong, but I have to wonder if you're playing the same game I am. I go back years, too. I remember when you used to have fleet battles of a certain size that you cannot have now, either due to lag (which is much worse than is used to be) or de-sync (which didn't EXIST back then). De-syncs are the major problem and they happen with small numbers AND large numbers. So...not sure what you were trying to accomplish with your post, but in my opinion, point not made. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
Kristoffer Amarr Blackguard Brigade	Posted - 2007.08.09 23:17:00 - [165] Originally by: Butter Dog You guys have incredibly short and selective memories. I can recall when 50 V 50 was a 'big deal' and caused massive, unplayable lag - the kind you now experience with 200 v 200. That lag doesnt happen so much anymore in fights of that size... In fact the servers have improved dramatically over the years in terms of their ability to host larger fights, but clearly there is a limit on the technical capabilities. The trouble here is that the players ability to form ever-larger blobs is outpacing CCP's ability to upgrade the hardware. Things ARE better - if you go back to 50 v 50, and compare the performance from 2 years ago to now, its massively improved. Still not perfect but it has come a long way. Yeah okay pal, So when I desync in 20 vs 20 fights, or 6 on 10 fights, or 4 on 10 fights, the hardware has definately improved.
Cygnus Zhada Amarr UK Corp FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.09 23:23:00 - [166] Well, accordingly to Wrangler subscriptions are going up!!! So there's no problem whatsoever, we're all just whining players who can/will/are replaced by newer players so why should they bother. All they gotta do is keep advertising how EVE has fleet battles and more people will come in!!! To top it off they want to have 300k subscribers before the end of the year... After paying our monthly fee we'll have the priviledge of being docked in a station and anyone undocking or complaining is a filthy WOW player who should just GTFO. I can see it happening. Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online
LordLoki Adeptus Illuminati Aegis Authentica Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2007.08.10 00:22:00 - [167] How about we put in Collision damage over a certain speed. Is it just me.. but if a Inty hits something as massive as a carrier doing 8k ms ... the dang (kid friendly .. really wanted to say f.....g) ship would be a pancake... not send the carrier flying through space 10km.. and yes the word I wanted to say before was FUDGING!!!!!!!!!!
Piwat King	Posted - 2007.08.10 02:31:00 - [168] I'm surprised you all haven't figured this situation out yet.... why is there still Desyncs? what has CCP promised to do in EVE? CCP promised to the playerbase that they would find a way to remove the need for the blob. Since they have failed at it from a content point of view they have decided to place this "desync" issue in. so anytime large blobs get together it's so horrible that given it happening to players enough they will stop flying in big fleets, thus CCP is living up to what they said they would do, remove need for the blob. the only reason CCP hasn't fixed this yet, was because it is done on purpose. think about it. Any company would normally fix this ASAP, and put everything else to the side to repair this problem. what have they done? stress tests on Sing for POS stuff, a few updates for other fixes and otherwise not much else. this is being done intentionally.
Galeric Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2007.08.10 03:03:00 - [169] Come on guys.... You're supposed to be using those new nifty bombs that will limit blobs!
Super Twinkey69 D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.10 03:26:00 - [170] there isnt enough in this post about TRI,so TRI ftw-but seriously we feel for you guys-we all have fallen victim to the desynch that 'doesnt exist' lag will hold all of our space eventualy and there isnt any thing we can do about it!111111111!!!!!11!!1! hurray!!111!1!
Berry Rydell	Posted - 2007.08.10 09:35:00 - [171] I don't forsee any resolution to this issue of lag concerning large fleet combat. The reality is that today with any large-scale conflict, each side brings half the eve map to their constellation to attack/defend. Adding more/new hardware and fixing desync helps short-term, but only insofar as providing a bit of headroom for more people to come to the party. Back to square one. Bombers were supposed to be the anti-blob tool, but it isn't the answer. There needs to be some kind of game mechanic that limits or discourages numbers in systems or mass jump-out/in through gates. I hated traffic control, in principle and for its non-deterministic nature. However some derivation thereof has got to be better than looking at a black screen for 25 minutes and checking your opponents killboard to see if you are dead or not.
PeveS hirr	Posted - 2007.08.10 10:07:00 - [172] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Well, accordingly to Wrangler subscriptions are going up!!! So there's no problem whatsoever, we're all just whining players who can/will/are replaced by newer players so why should they bother. All they gotta do is keep advertising how EVE has fleet battles and more people will come in!!! To top it off they want to have 300k subscribers before the end of the year... After paying our monthly fee we'll have the priviledge of being docked in a station and anyone undocking or complaining is a filthy WOW player who should just GTFO. I can see it happening. ... never mind! Probably quitting is the best option.
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.10 11:23:00 - [173] Originally by: Cygnus Zhada Well, accordingly to Wrangler subscriptions are going up!!! So there's no problem whatsoever, we're all just whining players who can/will/are replaced by newer players so why should they bother. no surprise that they're going up when the number of really blatant isk farmers with 30 characters named the same thing is going up.
Zeoliter Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.10 11:52:00 - [174] Edited by: Zeoliter on 10/08/2007 11:54:59 I think alot of players are using "desync" because it's the new in word. However, ever since the patch was deployed that was supposed to fix desync, I haven't desynched once and I'm in combat every day from small gangs to large fleets. Jumping into a system, nothing loading, not being able to lock a target, not being able to shoot the target for 5 minutes after it's locked, this is not desync - it's just the same old lag. Anyhow, I feel for you. Last night I stayed up to 4am as we were going to engage a 250+ fleet with half the numbers. We jumped in, same old story. Jump queue, 10 minute load, 5 minutes to obtain a lock, another 5 minutes to activate guns - by this time the target is out of range orl dead, start again. Fleet combat has become impossible unfortunately. In a few weeks if your enemy has a 200 man gang FCs will just let them get on with it. No-one is going to be jumping in to anyone when the combined force in a system hits 300. Only way to engage on this scale is to amass forces in the target system in the 24 hours leading up the engagement (which is normally over POS shinanigans). Fleet combat could be awesome and most of us love it. It's such a buzz to be fighting on this scale and nothing comes close to getting the heart pumping and adrenalin rushing like a 300 man fight. Hoping CCP can find a solution soon.
Waagaa Ktlehr Amarr Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:21:00 - [175] In the old days of 2004/2005, you could have a 150 vs 150 without too much lag. I remember big fleet battles in the conflict down south CA vs SA/XETIC/allies and it was very smooth even with 200-300 people on a grid. Those kind of fights even today are already a big stretch on the server. I don't know exactly what changed, but something is eating up a lot of node resources. - -
Kagura Nikon Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:56:00 - [176] Originally by: Orree I don't know how our colleagues to the south keep going under these circumstances. I've been saying for months that I want nothing to do with POS/Blob warfare. It's about as much fun as major orthodontic surgery...lol. Roaming gangs/Raids > POS/Blob warfare. You bring the blob more or less because you have to...because if you don't, the other guy will. After V7-MID and now this over S-E, I'm all for just throwing in the towel if the other guys want to..heheh. This isn't fun and it isn't going to BE fun any time soon. Nothing wrong with the pew-pew on a smaller scale, but this is ridiculous and EVE just isn't up to it. On the other hand...you can de-synch with 20 people in local, so go figure. shrug Here at south we have lag issues as everybody. But since our fights are usually not ona ate crossing" the desync issue is not hitting hard all the times. Some times most people is just lagged (no problem) and only a few desync. Sometimes most desync (but this is almost only when you have cyno in or gate crossing) If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:16:00 - [177] Originally by: Zeoliter Edited by: Zeoliter on 10/08/2007 11:55:44 I think alot of players are using "desync" because it's the new in word. However, ever since the patch was deployed that was supposed to fix desync, I haven't desynched once and I'm in combat every day from small gangs to large fleets. Jumping into a system, nothing loading, not being able to lock a target, not being able to shoot the target for 5 minutes after it's locked, this is not desync - it's just the same old lag. We do know the difference between lag and desync. When suddenly your ship appears 20 au from where it used to be while you still have a lock and see targets like they are all blobbed tight on a gate - it is clearly a desync.
Aerick Dawn Gallente The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:22:00 - [178] Originally by: Waagaa Ktlehr In the old days of 2004/2005, you could have a 150 vs 150 without too much lag. I remember big fleet battles in the conflict down south CA vs SA/XETIC/allies and it was very smooth even with 200-300 people on a grid. Those kind of fights even today are already a big stretch on the server. I don't know exactly what changed, but something is eating up a lot of node resources. I dont remember these good old days you talk about. I was in these fights as well, and the lag was atrocious. __________________ If I'm in a fair fight, i've done something terribly wrong.
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.10 14:00:00 - [179] Originally by: Kristoffer Originally by: Butter Dog You guys have incredibly short and selective memories. I can recall when 50 V 50 was a 'big deal' and caused massive, unplayable lag - the kind you now experience with 200 v 200. That lag doesnt happen so much anymore in fights of that size... In fact the servers have improved dramatically over the years in terms of their ability to host larger fights, but clearly there is a limit on the technical capabilities. The trouble here is that the players ability to form ever-larger blobs is outpacing CCP's ability to upgrade the hardware. Things ARE better - if you go back to 50 v 50, and compare the performance from 2 years ago to now, its massively improved. Still not perfect but it has come a long way. Yeah okay pal, So when I desync in 20 vs 20 fights, or 6 on 10 fights, or 4 on 10 fights, the hardware has definately improved. Well, to be fair the two things are seperate issues. I've desyched in totally lag-free environments so I don't even know how linked lag + desych are. Last night, with just 7 people on grid, and smooth responsive gameplay, my carrier alt desyched and started drifting away... I could see him doing so on my main, and other people could, but on his screen I was still with the main group... Its a strange one, but its not the same as lag. The lag has IMPROVED in fights of the same size. The problem is that very, very large fights are now commonplace so lots of people are experiencing chronic lag and getting angry about it. But before the server upgrade, 50 v 50 used to reduce FPS to less than one. Not anymore - its pretty playable. ---------- signature removed - please do not discuss moderation in your signature graphic - Jacques([email protected])
Neena Valdi Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.10 14:33:00 - [180] Originally by: Butter Dog But before the server upgrade, 50 v 50 used to reduce FPS to less than one. Not anymore - its pretty playable. Sounds more like you got your hardware upgraded?

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