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Pinnk Floyd	Posted - 2007.08.09 06:30:00 - [1] Bombs were supposed to make stealth bombers useful, but I have yet to actually see anyone use them. The main reason? They're ridiculously expensive. The price of a single bomb is the rough equivilant of how much you'd lose if you flew and lost a T1 battleship instead (after insurance). The difference is that the t1 battleship can actually kill something, while a single bomb can not. I know you made it expensive so they aren't "spammed" around, but what's the use of doing that when they are totally useless UNLESS they're spammed? For now, those stealth bombers would be better off fitting out something useful. Discuss.
Lady Caeser Open Fist of Castallus	Posted - 2007.08.09 08:39:00 - [2] agree. bombs need love -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? --------------------------------------
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.08.09 19:45:00 - [3] Yea, their price needs cut by a factor of 5-10. The cost of loosing an insured T1 cruiser is still high but bearable since the bomb is going to be more useful than a cruiser in certain very specific situations. The other problem is that you need several of them to be effective, yet you can only launch one, so you need several bombers to launch a coordinated attack using the same race bomber so they can use and get the bonus for the same bomb type to avoid blowing each other's bombs up. Either of these limitations should be enough to keep bombs from being overpowered, but both make them useless.
Terex193	Posted - 2007.08.09 22:24:00 - [4] yea,bombs are expensive,and there not very strong,it takes 4-5 bombs to take out a fully tanked apoc,its riducles
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.10 00:02:00 - [5] this is, of course, leaving aside that the prerequisite skill (Missile Bombardment) is actually fairly worthless, and so prior to bombs, not many had trained it. After bombs, a lot of people went 'meh, not worth it'. Seriously, L5 prereq all over the place _don't_ help EVE's gameplay.
William Hamilton Caldari THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS.... R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.08.10 01:21:00 - [6] ^On the other hand, a good amount of players start with it, and it isn't "entirely" worthless....
Desiderious Gallente Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:12:00 - [7] I think a slight buff would help. However you also have to make sure they don't become too popular in use. Honestly having to worry about a bombers spamming them should not be a concern. ----------------------------- Oink ^OO^ Your sig is too large. Please resize it so that it fits within 400x120. -Conuion Meow ([email protected])
Ciara Daag	Posted - 2007.08.10 04:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Terex193 yea,bombs are expensive,and there not very strong,it takes 4-5 bombs to take out a fully tanked apoc,its riducles so what your saying is that a frigate should be able to one shot a battleship? I dont think so.
Pinnk Floyd	Posted - 2007.08.10 06:28:00 - [9] Originally by: Ciara Daag Originally by: Terex193 yea,bombs are expensive,and there not very strong,it takes 4-5 bombs to take out a fully tanked apoc,its riducles so what your saying is that a frigate should be able to one shot a battleship? I dont think so. No one is saying that. But a 15-20m isk bomb that gives a 15 second warning ought to do more damage than they do now. Either reduce the cost or buff the damage.
Kai Lae Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:55:00 - [10] To fix bombs, all the need is to change the bomb production run from 1 bomb to 10 bombs. I'm sure though that CCP will likely not do this and instead come up with something else way more complex and less workable.
Gaogan Gallente Solar Storm Sev3rance	Posted - 2007.08.11 02:27:00 - [11] Yea, I don't mind it requiring multiple bombers to take out a bs, but they shouldn't have to spend 10 times the replacement cost of the bs to do so.
Piwat King	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:26:00 - [12] You would have to be an idiot to use a group of bombers to take out 1 BS.... Bombs where not meant to be used against a single target. they are meant to take out a blob of players close together. sort of a counter to remote reppers. people get to close to help each other w/ shield/armor/energy transfers, and suddenly a group of 5 bombers uncloak and BOOM, massive pain. they are fine, thier high cost is acceptable. you just have to use them properly. They are not going to become the be all end all for pirates to group 1 shot people jumping through gates. with bombs. gate gankers are already lazy enough, we don't need them to get even lazier.
Aleksandr Cirtus Caldari Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:28:00 - [13] ROLES, ppl. Aleksandr Cirtus Senior Knight and Ghost Fleet Pilot of Stronghold Curse Alliance
Hellaciouss Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.11 05:56:00 - [14] So let me get this straight... You still haven't learned how to successfully deploy a couple stealth bombers on a sniper fleet? I'll help you. 4 (or more) Stealth bombers (with same damage bombs) + dictor. Warp in, drop bombs, initiate warp on SB's the second bomb is dropped, drop bubble, dead sniper fleet and dictor is probably going to die but it's worth it. Second option; Suicide Fit SB's with only bomb launcher and 1 bomb. Warp in, drop bubble & bombs, laugh as you all die knowing you've done way more damage isk wise.
Lady Caeser Open Fist of Castallus	Posted - 2007.08.11 09:02:00 - [15] Originally by: Hellaciouss So let me get this straight... You still haven't learned how to successfully deploy a couple stealth bombers on a sniper fleet? I'll help you. 4 (or more) Stealth bombers (with same damage bombs) + dictor. Warp in, drop bombs, initiate warp on SB's the second bomb is dropped, drop bubble, dead sniper fleet and dictor is probably going to die but it's worth it. Second option; Suicide Fit SB's with only bomb launcher and 1 bomb. Warp in, drop bubble & bombs, laugh as you all die knowing you've done way more damage isk wise. Any FC who has done the calcs knows this tactical requires 10-15 bombs to kill a properly setup and hardened fleet battleship 10-15 suicided ships/bombs/pods (as any other tactic simply would not be possible with the current laggy environment) is simply not economically viable considering 1. range of bombs is only 15km 2. each of those bombs/ships/pods add up to 40-50m isk, making the total tactic very expensive 3. its a one-trick pony in that after this, your pilots are podded and have to make their way back to the fight 4. overall, it is much more cost efficient and strategically prudent to have these pilots in t2 sniper battleships or interdictors -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? --------------------------------------
Jehovah Cooper Convergent Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.11 21:42:00 - [16] No one really should be tanking a fleet battleship other than perhaps a DC and a plate - slots are used for tracking and damage mods. So 10-15 bombs required is a pretty high estimate.
Pinnk Floyd	Posted - 2007.08.12 05:46:00 - [17] Edited by: Pinnk Floyd on 12/08/2007 05:47:14 You can bubble a sniper fleet all you like, but most competent sniper fleets are MWD-equipped anyway and can burn 15km in 15 seconds easily unless the bombs are dropped right on top of them. There's no way you're going to kill anything, and every bomb you detonate is basically like losing a fighter isk wise. Quite frankly, you don't know what you're talking about.
Kyoko Sakoda Caldari Omerta Syndicate Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.12 06:35:00 - [18] What would actually make bombers useful is a ~50% speed increase so said bomber can actually get away from its own bomb, not necessarily a price decrease. Learn what it means to be Caldari with Omerta Syndicate
Lance Fighter Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.12 07:06:00 - [19] on sisi, it was tested to give stealth bombers a ceptor-like base speed... Ended up not working very well. bombers arent supposed to go 3-4 km/s...
UGWidowmaker Caldari The Ankou The Reckoning.	Posted - 2007.08.12 08:30:00 - [20] make em do a bit more damage. or add a skill where u can say.. armor piercing, shield piercing etc... and lower the price just a tad... the trit use in it is odd.. the bpo also cost to much, OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.
Nanus Parkite Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2007.08.13 14:28:00 - [21] Either Make them cheaper or Increase their effect or Increase their range They just aren't good enough to warrant their cost. In particular the lockbreaker and void bombs need to be buffed. In my opinion bombs should have a reasonable impact on BS and even capitals, support should be vaporised if it gets caught.
Angor The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.13 15:18:00 - [22] With the right numbers and planning bombs are extreamly effective, they can completly oblitorate an enemy fleet or leave it incopacitated enough for your fleet to take out easierly. The only problem is (apart from the cost) is that the more bombers you use the less likely any of them will survive their own bombs, which sucks really bad. Most bomber pilots i know will only fit the bomb launcher and a prototype cloak to keep cost down as they are generally considered a suicide ship. What the bomber really needs is boost to resists or more hitpoints. _______________________________ WTS 50m sp PvP Minmitar Character including Dread and Carrier
Lithalnas Amarr Hadean Drive Yards Archaean Cooperative	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:47:00 - [23] 4 bombs + stealth bombers 100m 1 apoc + 8smartbombs 100m the difference is just range of explosions and the ability to survive, I would take the apoc any day. ------------- Hadean Drive Yards
aldarrin	Posted - 2007.08.13 21:16:00 - [24] They are rather expensive. Otherwise a small stealth bomber gang would be printing isk in missions on complexes. I can only imagine that this is part of the reason behind the rather steep price tag on bombs.
Bu Jinkan Amarr Rens 911	Posted - 2007.08.15 13:59:00 - [25] Originally by: aldarrin They are rather expensive. Otherwise a small stealth bomber gang would be printing isk in missions on complexes. I can only imagine that this is part of the reason behind the rather steep price tag on bombs. I was under the impression that bombs could not be launched in deadspace.
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.15 14:12:00 - [26] problem right now with bomb is 8 Smart bomb disco phoon > bombs in effectiveness cheapness and skill wise. they need to be cheaper and easier to use 2-5M each and leave stats the way they are. or they need to have 3-4x as much damage as they do now so you can actually use them to clear fighters and support ships which i thought they should be for to begin with Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.15 14:13:00 - [27] Originally by: Lithalnas 4 bombs + stealth bombers 100m 1 apoc + 8smartbombs 100m the difference is just range of explosions and the ability to survive, I would take the apoc any day. that bombapoc is also fully insured so only about a 20M isk loss. also the bombapoc used in groups of 2-3 with full stabs stands a fair chance of surviving. Your signature image exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo
Gus Morgan Genos Occidere	Posted - 2007.08.15 22:37:00 - [28] Edited by: Gus Morgan on 15/08/2007 22:38:24 What really confuses me is that they didn't make the damage of bombs increase with the number of targets that got hit. Lets say you drop a bomb on one BS.. damage is decent but far off from killing it. Then you drop a Bomb between 5 battleships which increase the damage on each battleship by x5. which would wipe the fleet. Imo THAT is a crowd control weapon. would also make them cost effective.
Scorpyn Caldari Infinitus Odium The Church.	Posted - 2007.08.16 09:29:00 - [29] Edited by: Scorpyn on 16/08/2007 09:31:22 Originally by: Lithalnas 4 bombs + stealth bombers 100m 1 apoc + 8smartbombs 100m the difference is just range of explosions and the ability to survive, I would take the apoc any day. You can't use that many apocs at the same place though, while it's actually possible to get beyond doomsday device damage with a bunch of bombers. bombs vs 1 bs = waste of isk bombs vs 10+ bs = burn baby burn The bombers should probably get a high restance to their native damage type though... 2007-07-19 20:26
Pinnk Floyd	Posted - 2007.08.16 12:03:00 - [30] Originally by: Scorpyn You can't use that many apocs at the same place though, while it's actually possible to get beyond doomsday device damage with a bunch of bombers. bombs vs 1 bs = waste of isk bombs vs 10+ bs = burn baby burn The bombers should probably get a high restance to their native damage type though... Killing battleships with bombs is totally impractical, though. It depends on the battleship just sitting there for 15 seconds in the range of 8+ bombs. In reality, it'd be easy as pie to get 15km from at least a couple bombs with a MWD unless they're all 0km from you. And to make up for the isk loss (160m~) you'd have to kill either a few t2 snipers or a crapload of other stuff. And then, if you have 8+ bombers, why not just put them in t1 fit battleships and do even greater damage for less isk investment? Incidentally, however, I learned a use for stealthbombers yesterday. You can drop them in POS shields. So if your opponent learns the password to your POS, he can warp to the tower and drop a bomb without fear of retaliation from the POS guns. Voila, no more AFK enemies! I don't know if this is intentional, so a dev might want to look into that.

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