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Takahashi Arran coracao ardente Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:21:00 - [61] Also please look at my previous post and upload some of your previous papers to www.scribd.com
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.10 08:57:00 - [62] Originally by: Heikki Originally by: Catherine Altair i have an assignment .. Please comment Before focusing on techinal details, could we clear one of the more important issues? If I contact you privately, would you be willing to tell me Name and contact infor of the supervisor for this assignment (assumedly the professor) Your real name Your email address in the university?[/*] Or instead of me, to some other reputable third party here I could then check that you are indeed using the email (and hence registered to the school), and check with the supervisor you are indeed doing assignment like you described I could understand why you don't want public post such address for spammers, but have yet to see university sending their students on real world assignment/research with ban on revealing supervisor's contact info. If you indeed are interested in getting your assignment done, this is easy step : your skills and Eve-experience isn't that relevant. -Lasse please evemail me i will get to scribd asap
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.08.10 09:15:00 - [63] Originally by: Heikki If you indeed are interested in getting your assignment done, this is easy step : your skills and Eve-experience isn't that relevant. Agreed. And Heikki is a reputable, trustworthy person to do this through. However, there is still the fact that you have lied at least twice now, either mistakenly or grandiosely. You are not a largely experienced EVE player, and you did not speculate on Zydrine pre-Revelations (how can you even by mistaken about that?). I also believe your attempts to mask your main, and the subsequent error of posting with your main is highly suspect, and could possibly just be a ploy to withdraw attention from the whole thing. Hash being your main doesn't add up with anything else you have said, and he is probably just another alt that you're parading as your main. There are way too many holes in everything you have said; but however bashfully you have gone about this, until you reveal details in full to a trusted third party there isn't much hope of you proceeding. \| Open Source Offline Wallet \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:09:00 - [64] Originally by: Catherine Altair Due to suggestions from many players, I'm considering a two stage investment scheme. For the first 2 weeks, I will ask for an investment of 200 millions. After this 2 weeks period, if I can generate a return of 6% compounded I will consider myself to have proven my management skill and at that stage, I will ask for a furthur 1 billion investment. If I were to be proven incapable, I will payout all the money I would have made. This way, at most I will only tie up 200mil for 2 weeks. Please comment. A little better I guess. Above you have advised you will consider yourself proven after a 2 week period. It wouldn't be at all hard for you to simply use 24m(little higher due to compound) to (prove yourself) and for all we know, you have done nothing. I like the fact that you are at least considering changing things, but I think you need to close this thread, write up a proper business plan (your professor should be able to assist you with this), and make no mention to further offerings etc. Set this up as a bond issuance with a maturity date 45 days from todays post, at which time you pay back those investors 166% of their investment. This needs to be done off a small amount, and the business plan cannot change. You can't advise you are only dealing with minerals, and then change it to named goods when someone says they are profitable, then change it to other things as other people bring them up. You need clear goals, an exit strategy, etc. At the very least, follow the guide Hexxx has in the sticky which explains ways to create new offerings in professional formats. 2 weeks is far too short to generate any kind of trust in my opinion, as if you were a scammer, this is precisely how a scammer would do it. A small short operation with easy to reach goals, to build confidence, and then a large operation to follow. Obviously anyone can do this, but the way you are writing the first one off as a 'test' I guess is not up to standard in my opinion. Run the above operation i listed over a 45 day period with a 200m limit, and you will get buyers, and maybe pick up a little investor confidence once/if you start another project at that time. You need to be a straight shooter on this though. Don't lie, don't stretch the truth, and don't think you can get away with (used car salesman) techniques to put wool over our eyes. We have seen just about every attempted scam in the book, as well as business destined for failure. I hope you choose to go with something like the above option rather than your 'phased' roll out, or just completely forget about the 1b/5b first asked for. Your determination alone would indicate that this may be legit, but the eve market is cruel and can have devastating effects on someone putting big money into it without experience in the field. If anything, consider all the criticism you have seen thus far, as people seeing your plans and being almost certain that there is more chance of a failure than a scam. At least with 200m funding, a loss won't burn holes into your investors pockets (by scam or by business failure) Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.10 12:38:00 - [65] ok i might have underestimated the difficulty of EvE market. can anyone experieced in this field give me an estimate of how much % return on investment can be expected in term of good, bad and average return. and i will really think about what all of you have said. if theres no more interest, then i might reconsider restructuring my plan and go with what some of you have said. thank you.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:13:00 - [66] Originally by: Catherine Altair can anyone experieced in this field give me an estimate of how much % return on investment can be expected in term of good, bad and average return. This is virtually impossible. There are avenues one can take to literally earn 30% per day interest on capital with lots of work, whilst a semi-afk usage may only net 2-5% per day. It depends a lot on the person's motivation, diligence, and ability to read and act on market supply and demand. There is no set rule for a return, but if you are talking about public corps and their estimated returns, I would say something along these lines: 1) 2%-5% - For corps that have secured assets, considered low risk with low returns. Examples of this may include : FIN, CAP4U, BMBE, and EBANK when opened. 2) 5%-8% - For corps with minimal or no security, usually backed by a reputation and a competent business manager, occasionally in the form of bonds. Examples of this may include PISOF, C-R-A, FRPB, FIN-U and most others. 3) 8%-20% - Usually considered high risk investments, most undertaken by those who don't have an established reputation, and usually without any forms of security. These are high risk operations that will generally net the investor in due to the potential for high returns over scam/failure. Examples of this may include your business venture, Dusk Blade, and a few others. That's not to say you should offer high returns to net people in, just that it is sometimes the way things are handled. I guess it all comes down to what kind of returns you believe you can comfortably make, and not just posting what people want to hear. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:21:00 - [67] i think i can make 6% per week but then some people say "wtf i can make 6% per week why would i invest in you" while others say "omg you cant make 6% per week your a n00bmeister"' and everyone thinks im either a failure or a scam. like seriously, does this happen to everyone or is it just because my idea/presentation is bad.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:30:00 - [68] Originally by: Catherine Altair i think i can make 6% per week but then some people say "wtf i can make 6% per week why would i invest in you" while others say "omg you cant make 6% per week your a n00bmeister"' and everyone thinks im either a failure or a scam. like seriously, does this happen to everyone or is it just because my idea/presentation is bad. Well the % i placed above, were for monthly corporations. So you are stating you can turn a 24% month return on investment. That's why I put you in the high return high risk basket. I think it's a combination of issues causing your grief. 1) The controversial ways a few things were stated. ie relating to your main, your time in Eve, and your supposed trading during a period you didn't exist in. 2) Your age will always be a factor 3) Your rather alarming corp churn history 4) Your request for funds far beyond the value of your character (I have about 8 unused alts that probably have twice the SP that you do) 5) Your percieved profit. Frankly, saying one can comfortably get a 24% return per month I find alarming. Due to the fact that if you truly could, you could turn 200m into a few bills anyway. Plus, the next highest paying corporation below you would be down at the 11% mark. Not to say it cannot be done, but usually would take a cunning market warrior, or someone playing eve 23/7, or someone profiteering off existing/new infrastructure (ie t2 bpo f.ex) 6) Your poor business plan, especially considering it comes from a commerce student. I have written far more comprehensive ones, and my only tertiary education consists of McDonalds management having to balance a till at the end of the night. It all points to one of 3 resolutions in order of likelihood: 1) Scam = 48% 2) Failure = 48% 3) Success = 4% That would be my rating on the matter. Without the exaggerations I would have favored it more in the failure category, but I guess I am now stuck between figuring out if you did just exaggerate to try and get confidence up, or make the whole thing up to scam the eve community. Unfortunately, you really did cause that yourself. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:43:00 - [69] mcdonald management is not tertiary education
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:45:00 - [70] Originally by: Catherine Altair i think i can make 6% per week but then some people say "wtf i can make 6% per week why would i invest in you" while others say "omg you cant make 6% per week your a n00bmeister"' and everyone thinks im either a failure or a scam. like seriously, does this happen to everyone or is it just because my idea/presentation is bad. you've posted with two, pretty much brand new toons. either one of the new toons is your main, as you say, or you're fibbing about your main. if you really are new, no one knows you from adam and you want 5b to trade in named modules. you can't be assed to start at a lower, more reasonable rate, because you know it all. yet, if you knew it all, you wouldn't need 5b, you'd be able to go at it with a few million and get to a billion on your own in no time. why 5b and why named modules? there's plenty of things to buy at one price, sell at 500%+ profit and still be giving your customers a cheaper price than what's on the market. honestly, if you're saying the only way you can turn out 6% profit is by trading in named modules; then, yeah, you sound like you're not very um, educated in the ways of the eve. i know.... make a youtube thingie with you going see your prof and post it here~!! it'd at least be fun to watch.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:46:00 - [71] Originally by: Catherine Altair mcdonald management is not tertiary education And I can still post a more comprehensive business plan than a commerce student Glad to see you missed my point Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.10 13:56:00 - [72] Edited by: Catherine Altair on 10/08/2007 13:57:33 Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Originally by: Catherine Altair i think i can make 6% per week but then some people say "wtf i can make 6% per week why would i invest in you" while others say "omg you cant make 6% per week your a n00bmeister"' and everyone thinks im either a failure or a scam. like seriously, does this happen to everyone or is it just because my idea/presentation is bad. you've posted with two, pretty much brand new toons. either one of the new toons is your main, as you say, or you're fibbing about your main. if you really are new, no one knows you from adam and you want 5b to trade in named modules. you can't be assed to start at a lower, more reasonable rate, because you know it all. yet, if you knew it all, you wouldn't need 5b, you'd be able to go at it with a few million and get to a billion on your own in no time. why 5b and why named modules? there's plenty of things to buy at one price, sell at 500%+ profit and still be giving your customers a cheaper price than what's on the market. honestly, if you're saying the only way you can turn out 6% profit is by trading in named modules; then, yeah, you sound like you're not very um, educated in the ways of the eve. i know.... make a youtube thingie with you going see your prof and post it here~!! it'd at least be fun to watch. well then why dont you enlighten me with what you can make 500% profit with or you can go in that room called "god but dont use my godly power" with the lot of them. oh and i never said i will only be trading in named modules only. i just think that its a profitable trade and a good venue to pursue.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.10 14:13:00 - [73] Originally by: Catherine Altair Edited by: Catherine Altair on 09/08/2007 17:35:31 i need 1 billion isks because otherwise it wouldnt be a significant sum. its like saying i can return 6% per week on your 10 bux. i use it to buy food and work 8 hours a day at a fast food place. weee...ireturn 400% a week!!!!! edit: and yes i intend to be trading in named modules. as a matter of fact it will constitute the majority of my activity. majority, to a reasonable person means something along the lines of -- the greater part or portion. so yes, you didn't say ALL of it, but i did ask some questions, to which you just gave smart assed replies. how much money do you have RIGHT now? how much have you earned since you've been playing for the past month? i think 5m is a TON of isk to someone that's played for a month. and if you can't figure out how double that on a daily basis; then there's no way in hell you should get even 100m to go with.
Daeva Vios Ardent Adversary Anvil.	Posted - 2007.08.10 14:24:00 - [74] As somewhat of an aside to the whole discussion currently ongoing, insulting the people that you are relying on for advice, and who you will be relying on to invest in your business when the time comes that you put forth an honest business plan, is not a very wise move. I understand that tensions can run high when someone pokes holes through your proposal and seems to be enjoying it, but the fact is that it's being done by people who really want to see you succeed if you are what you claim to be. The problem is that no one here has any real guarantee that you are who you say you are except you. Everyone taking part is going to put you through the only tests they have to sa***uard their wallets. The thing is that if they didn't, they would be fools, and fools wind up poor in this game. Just to reiterate and make sure my main point is really getting home: Do not insult the people you are asking for money, unless you have already decided to never ask for that money again. That is tantamount to running backward with scissors. All you've got is reputation in this game, and you're ruining yours early on.
BritishInvader Amarr Leela's Lamas	Posted - 2007.08.10 15:40:00 - [75] I like when threads derail into existing merely to entertain me. -----+----- EVE ART STORE - CLICK HERE
Fury Banker Fury Bank	Posted - 2007.08.10 15:44:00 - [76] Originally by: Ricdic 5) Your percieved profit. Frankly, saying one can comfortably get a 24% return per month I find alarming. Due to the fact that if you truly could, you could turn 200m into a few bills anyway. Plus, the next highest paying corporation below you would be down at the 11% mark. I agree with the first part of this statement - either the OP CAN make 24% per month on 19 billion capital (in which case they should already have made their first billion) or the OP is amking numbers up with no experience. The last part is, however, incorrect. Remember that the OP is talking about total profit - not some net profit value after management fees. Fury Holdings is making a LOT more than 11% per month - even after half prfotis are taken for management fees, the shareholders have gained a 50% return in under 3 months. Gross profits are around 30% per month on around 20 billion invested capital (calculating capital in use is rather tricky now Fury Bank exists). Other than the first week of operations (which was actually only half a week of operations) Fury Holdings has never made less than 6% profit in its 12 weeks of existence.
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.10 16:10:00 - [77] Originally by: Daeva Vios Edited by: Daeva Vios on 10/08/2007 14:57:32 As somewhat of an aside to the whole discussion currently ongoing, insulting the people that you are relying on for advice, and who you will be relying on to invest in your business when the time comes that you put forth an honest business plan, is not a very wise move. I understand that tensions can run high when someone pokes holes through your proposal and seems to be enjoying it, but the fact is that it's being done by people who really want to see you succeed if you are what you claim to be. The problem is that no one here has any real guarantee that you are who you say you are except you. Everyone taking part is going to put you through the only tests they have to safe guard their wallets. The thing is that if they didn't, they would be fools, and fools wind up poor in this game. Just to reiterate and make sure my main point is really getting home: Do not insult the people you are asking for money, unless you have already decided to never ask for that money again. That is tantamount to running backward with scissors. All you've got is reputation in this game, and you're ruining yours early on. well i have already asked politely for people (not you) to not post "im god but i dont use my godly power" comment. it doesnt do anything constructive and i can delete it. i dont think hes interested in investing anyway. i think people who are genuinely interested dont go about insulting people who will be holding their money. he just sees a case whereby he can make comments about how ******** i am and how awesome he is. people seem to do this alot. but your right, if im gonna say anything bad i better not say anything at all. so ill shut up now.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.08.10 16:45:00 - [78] Originally by: Catherine Altair but your right, if im gonna say anything bad i better not say anything at all. so ill shut up now. I see you pretty much missed the point on Daeva's post. Forget about those badgering you, or who you feel are insulting you, and deal with the genuine queries and questions being put forth. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.08.10 17:44:00 - [79] Edited by: Shar Tegral on 10/08/2007 17:45:09 Originally by: Catherine Altair i dont think hes interested in investing anyway. i think people who are genuinely interested dont go about insulting people who will be holding their money. Actually we do. We challenge proposals presented regardless of who presents them. Even when they come from long term players, we challenge them. Those who can't deal with the challenges, those who can't seem to answer questions plainly and directly, and those who have skin too thin to be trusted with large sums of isk... Well they act like you are acting. What a surprise. You have to earn your place in Eve. You want to jump into the deep end of the pool relatively young (or so you are trying to represent) you are going to have to handle the swimming and the sharks on your own. Just like every one else. Quote: The Eve-Online forums may not have invented whining, but they sure have perfected it. Misanthropy: It's not just for Rednecks!
New Shadow Caldari CyberDyne Industries Te-Ka	Posted - 2007.08.10 17:54:00 - [80] Hmm, I am sorry m8 but I do not believe you at all. I was willing to invest at first, but from what you've posted you seem to be like an incompetent trader. I do not in trade Eve Online, but it doesn't mirror the markets in any way. The largest force that drives Eve's Economy is combat and while war does (at times) drive the market as well in the real world, it doesn't only depend on it. Your investment seems to be full of holes and lacking information as to how you pulled those figures. The reason why I show no care is I see these countless scams of people trying to be as sincere as possible, but full of the same mistakes as you. If you truly are taking Economics, you should head back to Economics 101. I apologize, but this just seems like a scam written all over it. If it isn't, I suggest you try harder in presenting your ideas in a clear and structured manner. As any meeting, if you were to present your plan as you have here and request the amount you asked for (Which I believe is like asking for $1 Million), they would simply laugh you right out of the room. In Short: Stick to the simulator
Eton Favre Instagate Corp Shroud Of Darkness	Posted - 2007.08.10 18:52:00 - [81] in general I think the majority of the people in this thread could personally fund this IPO with the spare change in their wallet. I don't think any of them would as you seem unwilling to listen to advice and only seem to read parts of their post. Yes they tend to be rather critical but if you reread the posts in here there is alot of good advice from some of the major people in eve. These people worked hard and have earned the respect of this community. I think that you had a descent shot at getting cash if you would have followed up on some of the sugestion but by now you have pretty much burned all your bridges. A well written business plan does wonders for how people respond. Yes you will still get asked a lot of tough questions. The age of your character it is reasonable to have doubts. If you answer those critics in a polite way and address all of the points you will get people to invest. I would be much more willing to invest in something that I thought was a scam if they put some work into it, had answers ready to common questions, and were not afraid to say " well I really had not thought of that possibility my fist impression would be .... but I am open to ideas." Overall I enjoyed reading the thread. but recommend you delete both characters and start over again in 4 months -- Covetor BPCs Invention Special!!!
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.10 21:14:00 - [82] my offer of 5m stands.
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.11 08:01:00 - [83] my first public investor thank you for your offer of 5mil hopefully some others will make an offer too.
Hash Kakakin	Posted - 2007.08.11 08:04:00 - [84] wow this is such an awesome offer!!!! i will give you all i have. *smile
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.08.11 09:33:00 - [85] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Hash Kakakin the actual unit website with relevant contents are accesible by students and staff only. Post the details of it here. I want to know exactly what it's asking you to do and if it pertains to what you're saying here. You are yet to do this, it should only take you five minutes. A copy/paste is what we need and there should be no objections to you doing it. \| Open Source Offline Wallet \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.11 10:40:00 - [86] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Hash Kakakin the actual unit website with relevant contents are accesible by students and staff only. Post the details of it here. I want to know exactly what it's asking you to do and if it pertains to what you're saying here. You are yet to do this, it should only take you five minutes. A copy/paste is what we need and there should be no objections to you doing it. what exactly do you want i cant post the entire web thats too big and i might get expelled.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.08.11 10:47:00 - [87] The specific details of the actual assignment. They must have it worded out somewhere, so copy and paste it here. \| Open Source Offline Wallet \| BMBE ISK Loans \|
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.08.11 11:27:00 - [88] Originally by: Catherine Altair my first public investor thank you for your offer of 5mil hopefully some others will make an offer too. sounds like all you read in the posts i've made in this thread was that last post.
Catherine Altair	Posted - 2007.08.11 12:02:00 - [89] Originally by: Ray McCormack The specific details of the actual assignment. They must have it worded out somewhere, so copy and paste it here. if you provide an email address i can definitely send you the pdf of the assignment sheet.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.08.11 12:27:00 - [90] Originally by: Catherine Altair if you provide an email address i can definitely send you the pdf of the assignment sheet. [email protected] \| Open Source Offline Wallet \| BMBE ISK Loans \|

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