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Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.10 23:33:00 - [1] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny He's not even at his computer, he's no threat Wait, you have a way of telling if he's AFK while he's cloaked? Jesus, ****, dude, tell us how!
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 02:15:00 - [2] Originally by: Flinx Evenstar It was in the thread title Sherlock don't be a ****ant. the entire point of an AFK cloaker is that you don't know he's AFK. He poses the same potential threat whether he's there or not.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 03:58:00 - [3] Originally by: Goonie Alt You can either learn to counter it or keep losing without even fighting. The problem is that there is no counter to the AFK cloaker. Any cloaked ship in a safe spot is untouchable.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 04:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Goonie Alt It also can't touch you. Why people don't realize this, we'll never know. Yes it can. Its mere presence is enough to stop all carebear activity. Aside from that, there's always the risk it can uncloak and attack something. This could happen at any time, hence the stoppage of all carebear activities. I myself have done this from time to time - staying cloaked in an enemy outpost system for hours at a time, occasionally scanning the belts and popping any idiots passing by. There could be nothing done about it, and if i chose to not decloak and potentially spring a trap - i could never be touched and the system could never be used.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 11:05:00 - [5] Originally by: CaldariAdam There is no counter because any probe or scan would kill off force recons. You've never tried probing down a force recon, have you? You almost always end up 30km+ away from them. Add in some difficulty for being cloaked, and you're talking landed 60km+ away from them. As long as the pilot is not AFK, he will see this and warp away. That, or simply orbit you at 10km, loling all the way. Bear in mind they would be probable, but not scannable, so there would be no instant jump to the most accurate probes. You'd have to spend time narrowing their location down, during which time, any legitimate cloaker would have bounced through 16 different safespots. Only AFKers would be affected. Originally by: RuleoftheBone How many times have you lost a ship to a cloaked attacker? Thats right...ZERO Don't be an arse. The problem is not losing ships. Try reading the thread. (Speaking of which - is it just me, or are the only people who are opposed to any changes those who are not in a position of holding 0.0 territory? Its not that i've got anything against that, the likes of Veto do what they do and do it well, but how, with no experience of the situation, can they comment on it?)
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 11:25:00 - [6] Originally by: Esk Esme stuff Don't you look at your keyboard when you type? Have you read the thread? There is no way to adapt. There is no counter to a cloaked ship. If anything, allowing cloaked ships to be probable would reduce the stagnancy, as it would make the lives of recon pilots more... interesting.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 12:04:00 - [7] Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Having your own gang camp the station you run missions out of Missions? I'm sorry - do we look like peasants from the outer ring? And to whoever said move on: Give me a way to pick up an outpost and bring that along with me and great, yeah, i'll happily move to keep the carebears safe. Quote: Risk should be everywhere in Eve. Fly with mates or risk losing the odd ship to a cloaker that actually engages. Risk is everywhere. However, risk is not a fixed quantity. Being in an empty system, or a system filled with blues is low-risk (still at risk to a fast nanoship, logonski or the rats). Being in a system with a neutral or hostile instantly increases that risk exponentially. Carebearing with a hostile in system does not happen. When that hostile cannot be removed, carebearing never starts again, and your entire system is made useless for your carebears by a single alt in a cloaked ship.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 13:15:00 - [8] Edited by: Elmicker on 11/08/2007 13:16:11 Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Mate, you and your buddies totally lose my respect. For what? For being careful with our industry and ratting ships? If you rat in a system with a hostile in, you will lose your ship. You might get lucky and survive once or twice, but you WILL lose your ship. NPC'ing in a gang will just cause the entire gang to lose their ships. A well piloted pilgrim or two could easily take on 4-5 ratting ravens and come out without a scratch. When a hostile enters system, you must immediately move to counter him. This means changing to PvP ships and setting up traps and camps. However, these do not work. The cloaker gains nothing from springing the trap and is achieving his objectives simply by being there. Originally by: Tommy TenKreds Get over yourself. You think you're too leet to run missions but you divide your own alliance into carebears and non-carebears and then won't send people out if there's a single hostile in local. Pluuh..eeese! Again with the assumptions. You assumed we (hypothetical we, i'm no longer a regular 0.0 resident) were running missions in backwater NPC 0.0. You assume we're split into carebears and non-carebears. You assume we don't ever leave the station at a hint of a hostile. The reverse is true - AFK cloakers are effective because people do try to respond. However, NOTHING CAN BE DONE TO COUNTER THEM. NOTHING. (edit: this is assuming the AFK cloaker isn't a member of IAC) The result is a single alt, with 0 effort and close to 0 cost, can tie up entire gangs for hours at a time, and grind all money making to a halt. This is imbalanced.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 13:54:00 - [9] Originally by: Trent NowImNothing OMMFG .... CCP wanted it this way .. you're using local chat in a way that shouldn't be used .... So? It's there, it's part of the game. If it's ever removed (hope not), then it'll likely be replaced by a POS-based system that does exactly the same thing. Situation is the same no matter the intelligence tool. Quote: wtf ... all money making grinds to a hault because you're too *** to go out and make some with 1 covert op ship sitting afk in cloak ... no, the ratting grinds to a halt because we go out into pvp ships thinking "Ah, great, a hostile, a fight!!" only to then waste 3 hours trying to probe down something we have no chance of finding. Quote: here's an idea .... try ratting in your pvp ship .... lol. Quote: or better yet why not just ask CCP to just straight out pay you isk so you don't have to ubdock from the station ... get some balls and stop being such a * ffs. I'm a *** for asking a way to hunt down and kill a hostile that's entered my space? Impeccable logic, there.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 14:51:00 - [10] Tommy - Have you ever actually lived in conquered 0.0? You seem to not have a clue what you're talking about.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.11 15:00:00 - [11] So, that's a no? All your posturing and telling me to defend our ratters and miners is based off pure guesswork? Let me put it this way. Blue/empty local = safe to rat Neutral/red local = Form pvp gang. AFK cloaker = neutral/red in local = form pvp gang = no ratting, no mining. There are no variables in this. No "Defending your miners." Everyone is either in a PvP gang, or they are docked/in a POS. This is how conventional 0.0 operates. Not operating this way results in dozens of dead mining barges and ratting ravens, and no number of defense gangs or ratting with friends will stop that.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.12 10:31:00 - [12] Removing local would exacerbate the problem. It'd cause 0.0 to collapse overnight.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.12 15:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Pilok **fly Originally by: Elmicker Removing local would exacerbate the problem. It'd cause 0.0 to collapse overnight. AFK cloakers are a no-risk method of removing the security of a blue/empty local. Removing local removes that security from everywhere. Same effect as an AFK cloaker, just in every system. no mining in 0.0 = no refine tax for 0.0 alliances = 0.0 collapse. It's honestly not that difficult.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.12 19:49:00 - [14] Edited by: Elmicker on 12/08/2007 19:48:56 Originally by: Pilok **fly But without local, those attacking a mining op can be ganked more easy. sigh 1st, how will you find the mining op? Check every belt of every system? 2nd, what happens when all the 0.0 mining has stopped and the high-end supply dries up? How will you replace ships? Quote: Cloaked guards wont show on scanner. This is a good thing? You could have 50 cloaked recons sitting 10km off your station and not know about it. All anyone would fly would be recons. No one would find anyone else. Quote: There are so many threads with removal of local in 0.0 (and low sec)with many good reasons why it should be removed. I've yet to see any reasons beyond "Local wasn't intended as an intelligence tool" and "It'll make killing things easier". Both of which are reasons which haven't been thought about for more than 30 seconds.
Elmicker The Phoenix Rising FreeFall Securities	Posted - 2007.08.12 20:19:00 - [15] Originally by: Pilok **fly This is a joke, right? no? How will you find the mining op. I'm honestly interested, as you will have to check every belt of every system - especially now as mining ops can take place anywhere with the Rorqual. Quote: It will make 0.0 mining ops safer,scouts on the gates and you know about hostiles before the hostiles know about you. Unless, of course, they're already in system.

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