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Angor The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.13 13:51:00 - [31] Edited by: Angor on 13/08/2007 14:07:47 Originally by: fire 59 Personally, i think they should do something to redress the recent flux of people fitting cloaks to every ship. It's like the new fotm safe pvp option. Heavily penalise cloaks on non cloak speific ships ( i mean like reduce optimal/falloff/turn weapons off kinda heavy ) but leave the cloaking ships alone. Winner... Thats it. Disregarding ships that require covert ops cloaking devices and bombers that use improved. It would work against macro ratters, and cloaking nano ships. Fitting a cloak to a non-specific cloaking ship would render the weapons on that ship almost useless. So it would be pointless for nano ships to fit... hence solving my issue. On the gate he would still have got away but with the weapons almost useless he wouldnt have come for easy ganks in the first place with it fitted. Maybe reduce the locking range and scan resolution with an active cloak to -95% to 99% so missiles are affected as well and not just guns that require tracking. Thats fair right? The only people that should be affected are the macro ratters and nano cloakers? Nano ships can still nano and macro ratters can be killed for once, reducing isk selling. Winner all round I reckon. Remember to tell your dev buddies at your next alliance meeting... lol only joking dude . _______________________________ WTS 50m sp PvP Minmitar Character including Dread and Carrier
Ulviirala Vauryndar Gallente Cohortes Stellaris Blade.	Posted - 2007.08.13 15:10:00 - [32] This sounds like someone running around a tree and you keep all the way running after him. Maybe change direction? And where the heck is the problem for a interceptor for instance, locking and webbing a Battleship with increased signature radius even? Hell, I've got owned in shuttles already :P And as it was mentioned... I don't see an imbalance in a Battleship taking out two Battleships. Ever heard of skilled pilots and being fitted wrong for a specific encounter? Thats why you can carefully choose your fitting, specialize or being a jack of all trades or just fit stuff. Just like with character skills. IMHO. Oke Cortes, I "gif" up. You won. 400x80 @ 23,239 bytes ^_^
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.13 17:08:00 - [33] Originally by: Angor Edited by: Angor on 13/08/2007 05:44:38 Had a rather annoying "fight", if you could call it that with a nanophoon earlier. Was not ammused at all. Nobody was killed but it totally annoyed me how invincible the ship actually was. I was on a gate in an Rapier (the supposed arch enemy of the nano fleet) with a few other friendlies (thorax, zelot, arazu, eris) waiting for this nano ship to come through. He didnt know we were there and when he jumped in he held his cloak as long as possible then decloaked and hit his microwarp back towards the gate and cloaked knowing that if i got a lock on his ass he'd go down like a pile of **. But the inertia from the MWD carried him cloaked to the gate where he jumped through... so our little gang jumped through after him. What does he do? Repeats the same thing... so we jump back after him and what does he do... the SAME DAMN THING!!!. He could have done it all night and only stopped doing it when a second nanophoon turned up to rescue him. So because of this i would like to see more nerfs to stop this kind of crap happening, i dont know what exactly you can do to nerf nano ships anymore but that "fight" really took the **. are you kidding me? the nano was nerfed once, and now because you suck at PVP you want it nerfed even further? Thats sad. ________________________________ High Sec PvP
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.08.13 19:39:00 - [34] Originally by: Angor Thats fair right? The only people that should be affected are the macro ratters and nano cloakers? Nano ships can still nano and macro ratters can be killed for once, reducing isk selling. Winner all round I reckon. Except you just nerfed every lowsec and 0.0 non-Alliance exploration vessel also. You know, the ones that sit there for hours trying to find exploration sites? That can't warp without breaking their scans? More players fit cloaks on "non-cloaking" ships than just Nanophoons and Macros Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Angor The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.13 23:37:00 - [35] Edited by: Angor on 13/08/2007 23:40:02 Originally by: Major Stallion Originally by: Angor Edited by: Angor on 13/08/2007 05:44:38 Had a rather annoying "fight", if you could call it that with a nanophoon earlier. Was not ammused at all. Nobody was killed but it totally annoyed me how invincible the ship actually was. I was on a gate in an Rapier (the supposed arch enemy of the nano fleet) with a few other friendlies (thorax, zelot, arazu, eris) waiting for this nano ship to come through. He didnt know we were there and when he jumped in he held his cloak as long as possible then decloaked and hit his microwarp back towards the gate and cloaked knowing that if i got a lock on his ass he'd go down like a pile of **. But the inertia from the MWD carried him cloaked to the gate where he jumped through... so our little gang jumped through after him. What does he do? Repeats the same thing... so we jump back after him and what does he do... the SAME DAMN THING!!!. He could have done it all night and only stopped doing it when a second nanophoon turned up to rescue him. So because of this i would like to see more nerfs to stop this kind of crap happening, i dont know what exactly you can do to nerf nano ships anymore but that "fight" really took the . are you kidding me? the nano was nerfed once, and now because you suck at PVP you want it nerfed even further? Thats sad. Read the whole thread asswipe... and if you think I suck at PvP so much then maybe we should have a 1v1? COME GET SOME Originally by:** Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Angor Thats fair right? The only people that should be affected are the macro ratters and nano cloakers? Nano ships can still nano and macro ratters can be killed for once, reducing isk selling. Winner all round I reckon. Except you just nerfed every lowsec and 0.0 non-Alliance exploration vessel also. You know, the ones that sit there for hours trying to find exploration sites? That can't warp without breaking their scans? More players fit cloaks on "non-cloaking" ships than just Nanophoons and Macros I dont see how this will affect other people that much. Covert ops ships fitted with scan probe launchers for exploration would not be affected??? Is that what you mean? If your trying to find exploration sites in a none covert ops ship then you need to train for a covert ops as your scan time must be around 400 seconds _______________________________ WTS 50m sp PvP Minmitar Character including Dread and Carrier
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.14 00:24:00 - [36] op : don't you know coming rigth next to a ship uncloaks him ? -=-=-
Angor The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.14 00:41:00 - [37] What good does that do if even if u decloak them get a lock and activate webs the're inertia still carry's them to jump range. _______________________________ WTS 50m sp PvP Minmitar Character including Dread and Carrier
Kin'Tarr Minmatar Silentium.	Posted - 2007.08.14 02:51:00 - [38] Explain to me how small corporations and pvp outfits fight against the hordes of blobs roaming alliance space and pass through choke points camped daily....?
Ramlag Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.08.14 12:00:00 - [39] To be honest, I think that its a lame tactic, that said I don't want it removed. I hate blob warfare as it is and I hate the fact that jumping into a gate blind (unless you're an alt user or in a group) and coming up against more then one ship usually = you die. Yes nanophoons are evil and lame as hell, I just wish all ships were able to be as evil and lame as hell. /not signed
Triana Gallente MMK Design and Logistic	Posted - 2007.08.14 12:04:00 - [40] so what, a pilot was smarter than you and escaped your camp, good for him. Stop whinning -- War is like any other bad relationship. Of course you want out, but at what price? And perhaps more importantly, once you get out, will you be any better off?
Major Stallion Four Rings D-L	Posted - 2007.08.14 14:10:00 - [41] Originally by: Angor Read the whole thread asswipe... and if you think I suck at PvP so much then maybe we should have a 1v1? COME GET SOME 1st off, I admittedly suc at pvp. So a 1v1 would most likely result in me getting ripped apart. See how i did that? I admit that i suck, but i dont go around calling for nerfs just because im not effective in 1v1, i just travel with a gang. 2nd off, i read your entire post THREE TIMES, and its still a bunch of "omg another pilot put some foresight into his setup, on to the forums to cry for him to be nerfed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" grow...up... ________________________________ High Sec PvP
Alpine 69 Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.14 14:27:00 - [42] Don't nerf a thing, the OP should grow some brains. It isn't hard at all to catch said nanophoon. Sweet love for the ones that mod my sig <3 From her? You're on. -Rauth
Ares Helix Gallente NunyaBizzness Phobos Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.16 00:10:00 - [43] Angor: I don't think you're after a nerf mate. More a special doomsday device just for you, able to be mounted on your ship, called an "I WIN" button. Fair enough really, I mean you're the most important person in Eve after all, makes sense to us all that you get one... As one of my alliance mates says, you wouldn't be *****ing about it if it was to your advantage!
Deathcharge Minmatar The Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch	Posted - 2007.08.16 03:05:00 - [44] I realize how frustrated you must feel about having that phoon slipping past ya, but what you're asking here is an uBeR-I-pWn-AlL camping button that will hand you all your victims on a silver plate with a golden edge. Yes you were in a anti-nano ship, and you would've crushed him if he'd try to start some ****. But he didnt... Its not like he pwned your anti-nano ship, so theres really nothing overpowering about what he did. Its an evasion technique. I mean you want ways to catch ppl in your camps, well some people want ways to evade those ways - both desires are justifiable. People gotto have an ability to survive. So theres really nothing to nerf.
Valharu	Posted - 2007.08.16 07:42:00 - [45] Actually Angor, you are pretty much correct, there is a issue with nano ships in general and it gets compounded even more when added with how fast Cloaks work etc. Realisticly it has to be broken down some. Alot of speed mods work good with a Afterburner but when combined with a MWD, it gets WAY out of hand. Acceleration from 0 to Max MWD is probably one of the main issues. Cloaks, cloak WAY to fast, so are far to effective when coming out of a gate. I have seen them cloak befor I could lock them with a 2400 Scan Res on many occasion. When people come through a Warp Gate, there should probably be a time delay which last longer then the Cloak from the gate. You should be able to enter another gate as soon as you reach it, but a delay on the gate you just came through. Don't worry about the nay sayers, I have played games for years of all types, the easist way to spot a imbalance is watch how many people switch over to a certain tactic. One of your prime examples of is how many ships it took to try to take on a single nano ship, that is a sign in itself. Now multiply it by more then one Nano Ships. Now a days I see packs usually around 6 or 11 (don't ask me why) +/- nano ships running around. The issue is many fold, its not just this or that but a few things. Nanos easily out run Track and Range of even long range weapons, which makes the purpose of haveing a long range weapon useless. I know people who fly in groups of them cause they ARE the I win button. They arnt used persay for fleet battles but in large groups they can terrorize many times their numbers do to speed and inertia if they play it right to carry them out of Web Range. Don't be concerned about what everyone else thinks, many can't tell a debate from a whine even if you brought some cheese and a violin along, just write what you believe for CCP to review, and ONLY debate people who know what a dabate is. The whine claim is old and used in every game I know, sometimes true, but mostly people hind behind it to protect their interest. KMA has normally been my rule of thumb.
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.16 10:36:00 - [46] Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 16/08/2007 10:37:00 Originally by: Angor What good does that do if even if u decloak them get a lock and activate webs the're inertia still carry's them to jump range. Vaga and nanophoons fitted with inertia stabs ? Are you sure ? I mean lol. -=-=-
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.16 14:52:00 - [47] Originally by: Valharu When people come through a Warp Gate, there should probably be a time delay which last longer then the Cloak from the gate. You should be able to enter another gate as soon as you reach it, but a delay on the gate you just came through. Clarify this, as you seem to want more lag and less time protected for people jumping in a new system. Or you simply want a I win button for gatecampers?
Alski Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.16 15:47:00 - [48] tbh i think this is a valid tactic, its not much different from an interceptor doing the same thing minus the cloak, its an interesting use of a module that useuley doesent have much of defencesive value in that kind of situation, and i kinda respect the ingenuity of it - its certainley something i've never seen done before on a non-covops. - (combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom.
Valharu	Posted - 2007.08.16 17:19:00 - [49] You end up with only a delay on the gate you just exited. Not for warping off and entering a new gate. As for the I win gate camp, there is a reason why there is a camp, if set up right, single ships should find it hard to get away. The issue lies in how some things work, some are 1s and 0s, either it works or it doesnt which causes alot of the issues we have. If you change how Warp Engines, Warp Scrams and Warp Cores work, (Engines already have a rating in the game that can be used) you would see a much better and enhanced game. For example, if you gave a Warp Scram a X amount of rating vs the engine output of the opposing ship, it would not stop, but delay the ship from warping off, get enough Warp Scrams and go over the engine rating and THEN it is locked in place. Warp Cores would just add to your engines warp strength and shorten the time a Warp Scram could hold you down. So now its a tug of war, neither the Warp Scram nor the Warp Core can be used as a I WIN button. Its a battle of DPS vs Tanking vs Time. Same thing for Dictor Bubbles and Mobile Bubbles. Give them a decent rating. In a simuliar fashion, a version of this idea can be applied to Sensors vs Cloaks. When it comes to Cloaked ships, it should be like the old Sub Hunts. If anyone is intersted I can write something on that later. There should be no I WIN buttons offensively or defensivly.
Tukseiga Caldari Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.16 18:35:00 - [50] I have spent many of hours chasing around the cloak nano ships as well, many of those hours where prolly with angor. The only real problem is the cloak and just the inability to lock the ship or find it for that matter.(yeah i know thats pretty much the purpose of the cloak) Not much really works on stopping them. If u drop a bubble on them they just say cloaked longer, the cloak is what allows them to do what they do. The nano part just makes it easier. No real nerfs are needed. Alot of times these cloaked nano ships just sit cloaked in a safespot or in a belt or what not. What is really needed is just someway to scan/probe them out and/or a new bubble the instead of preventing warp prevents cloaking. Just a few constructive thoughts.
Tukseiga Caldari Subach-Tech FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.16 18:35:00 - [51] Edited by: Tukseiga on 16/08/2007 18:47:19 I have spent many of hours chasing around the cloak nano ships as well, many of those hours where prolly with angor. The only real problem is the cloak and just the inability to lock the ship or find it for that matter.(yeah i know thats pretty much the purpose of the cloak) Not much really works on stopping them. If u drop a bubble on them they just say cloaked longer, the cloak is what allows them to do what they do. The nano part just makes it easier. No real nerfs are needed. Alot of times these cloaked nano ships just sit cloaked in a safespot or in a belt or what not. What is really needed is just someway to scan/probe them out and/or a new bubble the instead of preventing warp prevents cloaking. Just a few constructive thoughts. Just thought of something to add since we are dealing with most of the cloaked/nanaphoons in our home systems make it to where say the bubble that prevents cloaking can only be deployed in a system u have lets says sov.3 or sumthing. To prevent the bubble from being used on all gate camps and just allow you to protect your home territory and keep people out.
Angor The JORG Corporation FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.20 11:46:00 - [52] CCP------------------------ Either nerf cloaks so that they have a -95% scan res and -95% locking range on fitted battleships, even just while the module is online to prevent nano ships fitting them or Give interdictors different flavor bubbles such as Warp Disrupt, Webification and Decloak bubbles... that would make things even more interesting --------------------------- Most people who have read this thread have not read it fully i believe, they assume I am being lame and camping random gates waiting to kill innocent people, NO... I am trying defending our sov space from invaders that know they "cannot be killed". Second thing I like to point out is that I am not asking for some kind of "I-Win" button for myself. I am asking for the Nano+Cloak "I-Win" button to be taken away. As I have said before, I have no problem with nano ships, but in that little tiny chance you have of killing one, that 2% chance in any given situation of catching one, is wiped away by the little *** fitting a cloak then something has to be done. As for the D-L idiot, that 64% or whatever you were on about was our whole alliance, I do not know what my efficiency but you can work it out yourself below and I have over 100 solo kills. Corporation: The JORG Corporation Alliance: FATAL Alliance Kills: 781 Real kills: 557 Losses: 40 Damage done (ISK): 16324.768003M Damage received (ISK): 2715.608M lost 2x carriers :( Yes I like to PvP, i just dont want to have to spend x amount of billions of isk to setup a nanoship just so I can 1v1 another nano ship invading our teritory to the point where he probably wouldnt even fight me and instead choose to cloak and run away. *** and flame away... _______________________________ WTS 50m sp PvP Minmitar Character including Dread and Carrier

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