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jump frieghters please**idea inside**

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Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.15 06:29:00 - [1] I am totally sick of using carriers dreads and soon the ore industrial as a bastardized logistics system. I find that more and more of my time is commited to logistical efforts and even though i have a couple ships i rarely have the time to fly them for more than 15 to 20 min a week, and in my opinion time sinks do not really make game content. Lets just cut to the chase and make a jump frieghter, with reduced cargo hold of a regular frighter so you still have to slowboat the cap ship arrays, outpost eggs, ect. This idea is to cover the bulk movement of materials that normally take up the large portion of the carriers in game at this time. ship uses cyno networks to jump from point to point and will not be able to use jump gates at all, require the regular large ship array to build same as dreads carriers and frieghters (soon to be ore ships as well afaik) 300-400km3 1 high slot 4-5 mid slots 3-4 low slots no drone bay no weapons bays no remote armor, shield, or energy cap no maint bay no corp hanger armor or shield rep bonus's per racial ship class cargo capacity bonus same as regular frieghter it is a big fat juicy target for those wanting to hunt it down same base jump distance as dread same fuel type per racial capital ships same capital jump skills needed to fly shield and armor to get same or close to same boost as regular frontline 0.0 capital ships extra skills needed(feel free to add more) Racial Frieghters 4 Capital ships 4 capital armor repper or capital shield skills needed to use capital mods per normal. items needed to make bpo or bpc skills needed to build Cap ships 3 Items needed to build (unresearched bpo) 1 racial frighter for base ship 10 jump drives 7 capital shield 10 capital computer 10 capital capacitor 7 capital generator
aldarrin	Posted - 2007.08.15 11:23:00 - [2] I like the idea of a dedicated freight jumper. Then more carriers would be used for their intended purpose. -- Flame on.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.16 01:10:00 - [3] Originally by: aldarrin I like the idea of a dedicated freight jumper. Then more carriers would be used for their intended purpose. agreed
EliteSlave Minmatar Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.16 01:29:00 - [4] agreed \| \| Dev's if your Ugly and you know it.. and Proud of it... Sign Below ;)
Nezalurus	Posted - 2007.08.16 01:31:00 - [5] / signed
Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Do Or Die And Live Or Try	Posted - 2007.08.16 08:36:00 - [6] Freighters don't have slots. Remove the slots, confine it to low- and zero sec and it's fine and dandy But whats wrong with using a carrier to move materials in? If you don't like it, don't do it. Use a freighter instead. Or you could get 4 freighters and a titan, then the titan can open a jump bridge for the freighters. Then you don't have to use your carrier as a freighter.
Galmar Grief Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.08.16 10:22:00 - [7] /NOT signed Just my personal opinion, I'm sick of invincible untouchable logistics ships like carriers as it is, I'd rather see them not be able to be used as resource jumpers and have people NEED to escort their convoys. - - - UI Suggestion for Missiles - Can we please turn the damn things off / disable the shake?
aldarrin	Posted - 2007.08.16 13:37:00 - [8] ppl are going to use capitals for logistics until a jump capable logistics ship is created. Carriers with cargo expanders with two full indies in the maint. bay, titans jump portal freighters, etc. At least this way you can make it so it is the desired way to go due to a large cargohold but will lack anything resembling a tank / gank. This would require ppl to protect its thin skin. /still signed -- Flame on.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.16 19:24:00 - [9] Edited by: Clorthos on 16/08/2007 19:30:26 Originally by: Jaketh Ivanes Freighters don't have slots. Remove the slots, confine it to low- and zero sec and it's fine and dandy But whats wrong with using a carrier to move materials in? If you don't like it, don't do it. Use a freighter instead. Or you could get 4 freighters and a titan, then the titan can open a jump bridge for the freighters. Then you don't have to use your carrier as a freighter. frieghter used to have slots until people foudn they could transport capitals into high sec on test server, then they all got removed. The ship only being able to use jump drive and not being able to access gates means it is low sec only since cynos cannot be started in .5 and above space. using a carrier to move materials in takes that carrier and whatever other carrier is being used and removes them from potential combat. If I have my carrier doing logistics without a backup carrier then there is no possible way that ship is heading to intentional combat, it is needed to do logistics. However moving a frighter 40 jumps each way through 0.0 gates while moving more goods takes almost 3 times as long with a billion times the risk is not an option. If you have to move 40km3 per week then 1 carrier does the job in 30 min, if you have to move 300km3 per week then 1 carrier takes about 6 times that to do. The problem I am focusing on is that there is no intermediate step between small shipments and jump bridging 40 frieghters with a titan. Not everyone has access to a titan, and more to the fact turning to super capitals to do logistics by moving frieghters via jump bridges or putting logistic ships in the mothership means that is one less super capital to do combat work with. The mechanics in game are making the people doing the logistics bear the burden of this. Time sinks from blind spots in the game are not content, and belive me if I had a better logistical tool I would actually have free time to go PVP and other stuff. As it is I have not had time to do anything but logistics for months, and I know for a fact that I am no exception and others out there are doing the same thing.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.16 19:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Galmar Grief /NOT signed Just my personal opinion, I'm sick of invincible untouchable logistics ships like carriers as it is, I'd rather see them not be able to be used as resource jumpers and have people NEED to escort their convoys. Noting in 0.0 is untouchable, at no spot does this idea say imune to warp scrambles or bubbles. The ship in fact is far more vunerable to attack than a carrier or dread doing the same thing. If the ship is not escorted from jump to jump then it too will get ganked by anyone prepared to tackle and take it. This means people doing the prepwork for disruption of supply lines will have a far easier time of hitting the people doing supply runs, if the people doing the jumps do not protect thier hauler. Ever see how fast a trapped capital melts when the trappers do their homework and set up in a spot waiting for thier prey? I have and it is far faster than you might imagine, the larger the ship means things just happen in slow motion, but a well set trap still has the same outcome. As for taking away jump capable ships as logistical tools, you will find that every alliance more than 5 jumps from a 0.0 gateway will be gone from space and prolly the game in a very short time.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.21 00:21:00 - [11] bump for ccp to see. Devs please adress the logistics issues in deep 0.0 space, aside form misuse of combat ships.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.23 18:51:00 - [12] lets see some more discussion folks
Captian Internet	Posted - 2007.08.23 19:08:00 - [13] I will not support Jump portal hauling until a tier two interdictor is put in place that can redirect cynosural fields.
Ellaine TashMurkon MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.08.23 19:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Clorthos As for taking away jump capable ships as logistical tools, you will find that every alliance more than 5 jumps from a 0.0 gateway will be gone from space and prolly the game in a very short time. There were times when there were no carriers and dreads were rare, all alliances did large part of their logistics in freighters runs and industrials, dreads were used only for most critical supplies. It worked. It was very good for the game. Removing jumping capitals as main logistic tools would be really great improvement to strategy, gameplay and POS warfare, even if many would cry and some would die. Compare; Jump logistics: There is no big strategic difference between deepest space and areas near empire. Hauler logistics: There is visible variety, deep space is relatively safe but horrible for logistics. Low space is easy to supply from empire markets, but is full of pirates and roaming gangs hunting people who try to get to deep space :) Jump logistics: POS warfare is all about ISK and patience. You can easily fuel houndreds of POSes as long as You can afford and have patience to manage that. POS spam is basic strategy. You can easily supply POSes in areas completely controlled by enemy. Hauler logistics: POS warfare is all about sieges, cutting supply lines and controlling systems. You can cut Your enemies system with POSes so they dry out if they cannot get there. You can fight to controll pipes and force enemy to mine ice in 0.0, and then hunt his mackinaws. You can negotiate supplies from some neighbours if You cannot run pipe safetly. Houndreds od large POSes all over deep 0.0 become rarity and real achievement. Jump logistics: You jump from POS to POS and station to station, it takes minutes and is rarely of any risk. Pvp is largely separated from economy, people fly around for kills and wars are won by POS warfare or making oponent too tired to fight. Hauler logistics: Freighter and transport ops in 0.0 become common again. Pvp for destroying and cutting enemy supplies, hunting freighters, destroying their assets, is common. Wars can be won by sieging whole regions, by killing enemy economy.
Trent Nichols Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.23 20:52:00 - [15] Normally I would be very much against jumping freighters but as Clorthos pointed out, this is already being done. Only as it stands, it is an option available only to the most powerful alliances who really don't need any more of an advantage than they already have.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.25 18:23:00 - [16] Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon Originally by: Clorthos As for taking away jump capable ships as logistical tools, you will find that every alliance more than 5 jumps from a 0.0 gateway will be gone from space and prolly the game in a very short time. There were times when there were no carriers and dreads were rare, all alliances did large part of their logistics in freighters runs and industrials, dreads were used only for most critical supplies. It worked. It was very good for the game. Removing jumping capitals as main logistic tools would be really great improvement to strategy, gameplay and POS warfare, even if many would cry and some would die. Compare; Jump logistics: There is no big strategic difference between deepest space and areas near empire. Hauler logistics: There is visible variety, deep space is relatively safe but horrible for logistics. Low space is easy to supply from empire markets, but is full of pirates and roaming gangs hunting people who try to get to deep space :) Jump logistics: POS warfare is all about ISK and patience. You can easily fuel houndreds of POSes as long as You can afford and have patience to manage that. POS spam is basic strategy. You can easily supply POSes in areas completely controlled by enemy. Hauler logistics: POS warfare is all about sieges, cutting supply lines and controlling systems. You can cut Your enemies system with POSes so they dry out if they cannot get there. You can fight to controll pipes and force enemy to mine ice in 0.0, and then hunt his mackinaws. You can negotiate supplies from some neighbours if You cannot run pipe safetly. Houndreds od large POSes all over deep 0.0 become rarity and real achievement. Jump logistics: You jump from POS to POS and station to station, it takes minutes and is rarely of any risk. Pvp is largely separated from economy, people fly around for kills and wars are won by POS warfare or making oponent too tired to fight. Hauler logistics: Freighter and transport ops in 0.0 become common again. Pvp for destroying and cutting enemy supplies, hunting freighters, destroying their assets, is common. Wars can be won by sieging whole regions, by killing enemy economy. I do not think Comparing 2003 gameplay and 2007 gameplay and keeping some areas in 2003 while others are on the way to 2008 is the proper way to do things. And for the record there is a very big differnce between hugging empire low sec and 0.0 and 70 jumps from the nearest pipe, believe me, or ask anyone that live this far out. Logistical needs have grown 40 of 50 fold in that time and very little direct work has been done to correct things as they are. There is no way that the offered option in this thread is a instant IWINÖ button. It is limited in cargo space vs regular freighters which is still needed for transport of capital ship yards and outposts, and it is a very big target that is easier to kill than the current logistics tool .... carriers. pos warfare is not about cutting supply lines, it is about dropping ships on his pos and putting it into reinforced mode and then coming back and dropping it back to the stoneage. systematic attrition of an encamped enemy stronghold is about cutting supply lines, the smaller capacity jump freighter will do nothing to change that. If you cut people supply line it really does not matter what ships they are flying if you do your work right thenthe outcome will be inevitable. Look a the MS carriers and freighter kills this week in allaince discussion by a group set up to do the job right, supply lines cut and jump capable ships that were able to defend themelves fairly well were used. There is no realistic way people can look at this and say it will remove thier targets from game, if anythign it will consolidate them to a larger target that is easier to take out, run without and escort and the losses will be huge. As it should be.
AbyssStalker Dread Fleet	Posted - 2007.08.26 08:20:00 - [17] To be totally honest there's NO REASON for the freighters that currently exist in game not to be able to cyno jump.. Yeah they can enter empire BUT their not combat ships and can only transferr things between stations... why not be able to cyno jump while in low sec & 0.0 and also be able to enter Empire? They have no slots for weapons or mods... All they do is Haul a Ton of crap like ther supposed to do... enabling them to cyno jump while in low sec & 0.0 won't hurt anything.. And will enable Freighters to do what they were designed to do in the first place. Currently people use Carriers, Dreads, Motherships and soon the New Ore Capital for transporting supplies to & from deep space 0.0 regions because its the fastest & safest way to get the job done without totally risking a Billion+ isk ship full of cargo that could be worth a ton more. It's is the freighters job to transport things like this NOT Capital Combat/fleet support Ships.. Please let freighters do their job ! Allow Freighters to cyno Jump ...
Ellaine TashMurkon MetaForge Ekliptika	Posted - 2007.08.26 09:08:00 - [18] Originally by: Clorthos Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon Originally by: Clorthos As for taking away jump capable ships as logistical tools, you will find that every alliance more than 5 jumps from a 0.0 gateway will be gone from space and prolly the game in a very short time. I do not think Comparing 2003 gameplay and 2007 gameplay and keeping some areas in 2003 while others are on the way to 2008 is the proper way to do things. I just replied to Clorthos, stating that no, not every alliance more then 5 jumps deep in 0.0 space would die, and that no jumping would be actually very good. That does not have much to do with the OP, and deserves another idea (how to possibly force hauler logistics back) in another topic, and sorry for putting that here. For jump freighter. Yea, with Rorqual now, that can have more then 1 Iteron V inside, there should exist some dedicated jump transport platform, as using dedicated mining and combat ships for that makes less sense :).
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:43:00 - [19] The moveing of all cynos outside of pos bubbles should make the jump frieghter even more plausable and probable.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:47:00 - [20] Originally by: AbyssStalker To be totally honest there's NO REASON for the freighters that currently exist in game not to be able to cyno jump.. Yeah they can enter empire BUT their not combat ships and can only transferr things between stations... why not be able to cyno jump while in low sec & 0.0 and also be able to enter Empire? They have no slots for weapons or mods... All they do is Haul a Ton of crap like ther supposed to do... enabling them to cyno jump while in low sec & 0.0 won't hurt anything.. And will enable Freighters to do what they were designed to do in the first place. Currently people use Carriers, Dreads, Motherships and soon the New Ore Capital for transporting supplies to & from deep space 0.0 regions because its the fastest & safest way to get the job done without totally risking a Billion+ isk ship full of cargo that could be worth a ton more. It's is the freighters job to transport things like this NOT Capital Combat/fleet support Ships.. Please let freighters do their job ! Allow Freighters to cyno Jump ... I would like to point out that regular frieghters have no components/skills that jump capable cap ships do. The frighter and the jump frighter while related would be different ships entierly, jump ships cannot use jump gates since the the jump drives interfere with that, and no cyno can be made in .5 or higher space, therefore limiting the jump frieghter to ow sec and 00 space. keep the regular frighter for high sec and add the jump fieghter for the lowsec and 00 space.
AbyssStalker Dread Fleet	Posted - 2007.08.27 13:17:00 - [21] Originally by: Clorthos I would like to point out that regular frieghters have no components/skills that jump capable cap ships do. The frighter and the jump frighter while related would be different ships entierly, jump ships cannot use jump gates since the the jump drives interfere with that, and no cyno can be made in .5 or higher space, therefore limiting the jump frieghter to ow sec and 00 space. keep the regular frighter for high sec and add the jump fieghter for the lowsec and 00 space. [/quote Why not allow freighters to both use gates & cyno? I don't see why you gotta come up with a whole new ship when you can modify the existing freighters... BUT! Hey what ever floats your boat... Just as long as we get a freighter that can cyno...
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.27 20:49:00 - [22] Originally by: AbyssStalker Originally by: Clorthos I would like to point out that regular frieghters have no components/skills that jump capable cap ships do. The frighter and the jump frighter while related would be different ships entierly, jump ships cannot use jump gates since the the jump drives interfere with that, and no cyno can be made in .5 or higher space, therefore limiting the jump frieghter to ow sec and 00 space. keep the regular frighter for high sec and add the jump fieghter for the lowsec and 00 space. [/quote Why not allow freighters to both use gates & cyno? I don't see why you gotta come up with a whole new ship when you can modify the existing freighters... BUT! Hey what ever floats your boat... Just as long as we get a freighter that can cyno... well the main reason is that the frieghter as it is runs about 900-1 bil isk, at lv 4 frighter that gives you 900k m3 and that is a whole lot of room to haul with and at very real cost. I am just trying to find a way to balance things a little without giving any side the shiney red I-Win button.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.31 06:37:00 - [23] freighters need love to ccp
Cedric Diggory Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps	Posted - 2007.08.31 06:56:00 - [24] This is surely superfluous now: Whilst the Rorqual does not have a capacity this large, it certainly has enough to be getting on with. Assuming you run three Expanded Cargohold II's, two Cargohold Optimization II and one Cargohold Optimization I you can get 68,647 Cargohold - and that's excluding the corp hangar and ship maintenance arrays, both of which are larger than in a carrier. The Rorqual is the new jump hauling ship. However, I do think that increasing the cargohold to allow it to break the 100,000 cubic metres mark would do the job nicely...
Anglo Minmatar Astral Mexicans	Posted - 2007.08.31 07:08:00 - [25] yet another carebear idea... make it and you will see even less ways to win wars etc... voting NO! most lame idea.. use **** or moms for that crap.
VoYvod Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.08.31 07:15:00 - [26] Originally by: Captian Internet I will not support Jump portal hauling until a tier two interdictor is put in place that can redirect cynosural fields. /signed "zomg i'm at a hostile pos!" on a serious note , if something like that comes into the game it shouldnt get any slots at all including rigs and shouldnt be able to cyno in high sec
Willem Freyr Caldari Bio-Logik Tribe FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2007.08.31 19:04:00 - [27] /signed I agreed to, because now with the industrial capital ship who's a mining support people need bigger transport solutions.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.08.31 19:05:00 - [28] Edited by: Clorthos on 31/08/2007 19:06:03 Originally by: VoYvod on a serious note , if something like that comes into the game it shouldnt get any slots at all including rigs and shouldnt be able to cyno in high sec [/quote Low sec only yes, but the no slots or rigging is another thing. After the last patch, a very good one i might add, capitals have a large sig taking huge damage, and add in no cyno fields in a pos ..... everythign is poppable and fast. Reports of a bs fleet melting a archon in under a min post patch. Not sure of the tank on the archon. Even the ore capital has tanking mod slots, and it is going to fill in logistics wise with the ability to compress and hold jobs.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Endica Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.31 19:16:00 - [29] Originally by: Ellaine TashMurkon There were times when there were no carriers and dreads were rare, all alliances did large part of their logistics in freighters runs and industrials, dreads were used only for most critical supplies. It worked. It was very good for the game. Removing jumping capitals as main logistic tools would be really great improvement to strategy, gameplay and POS warfare, even if many would cry and some would die. I totally agree. Perhaps safe imports from empire were not the way CCP envisioned 0.0 logistics and maintenance. Earn ISK in empire with a Raven alt, spend them in 0.0, mine ressources with an empire alt, use them in 0.0. I guess it's not the way it was meant to be. _________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well -
velocity7	Posted - 2007.08.31 20:27:00 - [30] /signed Based on what someone said in this thread, a freighter has no modules because one could ship other capital ships into high-security space... however, as this ship is going to be limited to pure low-security system traveling, perhaps modules could be allowed. Give it only enough CPU/grid so it can mount damage resistance or self-repair modules; anything beyond that should not be allowed on this ship. No turret or launcher hardpoints either. It should also have a fat signature radius so people can lock it real fast.

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