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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:01:00 -
[1]
The drake is slow, so very painfully slow. It's DPS is laughable, but it has a great tank, basically the only thing really going for it, and even that has been nerfed with recharge times.
I'd love to see a rof bonus for the drake so it can compete with the dps of a harbinger, hurricane or myrmidon.
Myrmidon has a beastly tank and beastly dps
Harbinger has great dps
Hurricane is very fast with great dps.
I want to see the drake be able to really hurt an opponent who gets within range, even if it was only a Heavy missile assualt rof bonus. Throw us drake pilots a bone in pvp!
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Drenad
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:19:00 -
[2]
cant then its powerlevel would go over NINETHOUSAND!!!!!!
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Calisto Cody
Minmatar
The Black Swan Society
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:29:00 -
[3]
then even more people would fly drakes, cant have that.
Application Idea Disapproved
"I just like ships that are symmetrical, not ships with 5 propulsion jets on one side and 3 on the other and than maybe one in another random spot." |
Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:39:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Calisto Cody
then even more people would fly drakes, cant have that.
Application Idea Disapproved
the more people in drakes the better right? more easy targets for your hurricanes.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:40:00 -
[5]
i just neeeeeeed a little more dps
pls gib me mur dps!
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Hinty
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:46:00 -
[6]
Well they aren't going to add another bonus without dropping one. Unless i am forgetting one, all the Caldari ships with missile bonus's have a kinetic damage bonus some with others some not so it wont be that one.
Are you willing to lose the Resistance bonus that helps make for such a great tank in order to get this?
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:50:00 -
[7]
on test server drake had rof bonus, and myrmidon had 120m3 drone bay.... funny which ships got changed and in which way.... if drake could choose its damage it would be a fantastic ship. It might actually be able to kill some stuff... oh well.
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Mississippi Gunn
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:52:00 -
[8]
I would trade the 5% resist for a 5% ROF in a heartbeat.
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
Atomic Heroes
The OSS
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:53:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dizeezer Velar on 15/08/2007 21:53:38
Originally by: Hinty
Well they aren't going to add another bonus without dropping one. Unless i am forgetting one, all the Caldari ships with missile bonus's have a kinetic damage bonus some with others some not so it wont be that one.
Are you willing to lose the Resistance bonus that helps make for such a great tank in order to get this?
yes!
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:53:00 -
[10]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
on test server drake had rof bonus, and myrmidon had 120m3 drone bay.... funny which ships got changed and in which way.... if drake could choose its damage it would be a fantastic ship. It might actually be able to kill some stuff... oh well.
25% RoF = 33% damage bonus.
But ... well, getting RoF in return for losing Kin damage and gaining a launcher, would be lovely.
Sadly, there's somewhere in 'teh rules' that missiles aren't allowed to be versatile any more, they have to have one specific damage type that's bonussed.
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.15 21:57:00 -
[11]
They are allowed to be versatile.
They just have to sacrifice some base dps if they switch damagetypes, just as like droneboats and projectile users.
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:03:00 -
[12]
Quote:
They just have to sacrifice some base dps if they switch damagetypes, just as like droneboats and projectile users.
drone boats don't sacrifice any dps to switch damage types..........
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:05:00 -
[13]
thermal t2 drone damage mod: 1.92
kinetic: 1.74
exp: 1.56
EM: 1.38
Come again?
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Ajenia
Gallente
MAFIA
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote:
They just have to sacrifice some base dps if they switch damagetypes, just as like droneboats and projectile users.
drone boats don't sacrifice any dps to switch damage types..........
I hope you were just trolling and not that idiotic. To say something so absurd without having even learned to use drones in game, or anything about them, is just....
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It's a pleasure to burn. |
Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:23:00 -
[15]
indeed...drones must lose damage to choose damage types.
Missle boats with a ROF bonus (ie, raven) are the ONLY boats in game that can choose damage types with absolutely NO penalty. This includes t2 ammo btw...even projectiles are stuck with exp/kin if they want t2 ammo.
All other races must sacrifice something to get damage types...or not at all (amarr). TBH, the ravens bonus should be changed *away* from rof  but i like to rustle feathers.
Originally by: Snuggly
It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:31:00 -
[16]
Quote:
I hope you were just trolling and not that idiotic. To say something so absurd without having even learned to use drones in game, or anything about them, is just....
its not the same as loosing your damage bonus though....
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Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Vae Victis.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote:
I hope you were just trolling and not that idiotic. To say something so absurd without having even learned to use drones in game, or anything about them, is just....
its not the same as loosing your damage bonus though....
switching from thermal to em drones is something like a 28.2% loss in dps.
so yes, not only is it comparable...but it can be worse.
Originally by: Snuggly
It's just so great to have an actual reason to not die, incentive is fantastic!
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Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Corelum Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:35:00 -
[18]
Yes, the raven is basically the only exeption amongst missileboats.
The new khanid ships changed that technically, however those have instead a missile damage limitation a missile *type* limitation which seems to me about equal.
The damnation also technically does not loose dps by switching damagetypes, but that is more because it lacks any dps bonus unless you count missile speed as such one.
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:40:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 15/08/2007 22:40:16
I'd be willing to take a 5% damage bonus to heavy missiles (and only heavy missiles) on the Drake. Or a 5% ROF bonus to heavy missiles.
Of course, that means losing the 5% kin bonus to HAMs.
Liang
Originally by: "QproQ"
When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
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Ozzie Asrail
Infinitus Odium
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:42:00 -
[20]
Max Skill domi with
OgreII - 465dps
PreatorII - 342dps
So a 38% loss in dps. No it's not like losing dmg bonus it's like losing over 1 and a half dmg bonuses...
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darkmancer
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:44:00 -
[21]
Can somebody dig out the dev quote from before the tier 2 bc's were released. Something along the lines of.
"Drake, definately more gank than tank"
Ohh ccp how we laugh.
Drake - 8 launchers and change the resist to a missile velocity bonus. Weakens the ship, but least it be more fun to fly.
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There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
darkmancer
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Posted - 2007.08.15 22:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Max Skill domi with
OgreII - 465dps
PreatorII - 342dps
So a 38% loss in dps. No it's not like losing dmg bonus it's like losing over 1 and a half dmg bonuses...
Last time i checked Preditors we're fasters and had better tracking so it more like losing 1 bonus, gain 2 slightly worse boni.
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There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong |
Tao Han
Synthetic Frontiers
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Posted - 2007.08.15 23:05:00 -
[23]
Originally by: darkmancer
Originally by: Ozzie Asrail
Max Skill domi with
OgreII - 465dps
PreatorII - 342dps
So a 38% loss in dps. No it's not like losing dmg bonus it's like losing over 1 and a half dmg bonuses...
Last time i checked Preditors we're fasters and had better tracking so it more like losing 1 bonus, gain 2 slightly worse boni.
Oh yeah. And its EM, everyone loves EM <- pun was infact intended
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.08.15 23:11:00 -
[24]
I'd say drop the 5% resist bonus for a 5% rof bonus. Less tank, more damage... what the tier2 bc were supposed to be in the first place.
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Surreptitious
Isk Sink Inc.
Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.08.16 00:52:00 -
[25]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote:
I hope you were just trolling and not that idiotic. To say something so absurd without having even learned to use drones in game, or anything about them, is just....
its not the same as loosing your damage bonus though....
Just stop talking, your only making yourself look worse.
Syrup
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.16 01:04:00 -
[26]
Quote:
Just stop talking, your only making yourself look worse.
Syrup
what would the forums do without trolls like you?
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Katashi Ishizuka
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Posted - 2007.08.16 01:47:00 -
[27]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote:
Just stop talking, your only making yourself look worse.
Syrup
what would the forums do without trolls like you?
Except he's right... you're not trading for slightly worse bonuses, you're trading for utterly crap bonuses. Drone tracking and navigation speed do not come into play at typical drone operational ranges. You're talking about a -200m/s velocity change and a tracking bonus that doesn't improve dps vs battleships or cruisers in any significant way.
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.16 02:11:00 -
[28]
Quote:
Except he's right... you're not trading for slightly worse bonuses, you're trading for utterly crap bonuses. Drone tracking and navigation speed do not come into play at typical drone operational ranges. You're talking about a -200m/s velocity change and a tracking bonus that doesn't improve dps vs battleships or cruisers in any significant way.
my mistake... not like gallente ships are lacking in dps anyways though.
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d026
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.08.16 02:24:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Katashi I****uka
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote:
Just stop talking, your only making yourself look worse.
Syrup
what would the forums do without trolls like you?
Except he's right... you're not trading for slightly worse bonuses, you're trading for utterly crap bonuses. Drone tracking and navigation speed do not come into play at typical drone operational ranges. You're talking about a -200m/s velocity change and a tracking bonus that doesn't improve dps vs battleships or cruisers in any significant way.
yeah thats why i "never" see warriors/valkyres/berserkers. speed bonus is THE SUX!
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Tammarr
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Posted - 2007.08.16 03:35:00 -
[30]
Drake vs Hurricane, sure the cane can runoff it it cant break the tank...
Bad dps... how far does heavy missiles reach again? Are you supposed to be <10km fighting with your drake?
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.08.16 03:45:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Surreptitious
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote:
I hope you were just trolling and not that idiotic. To say something so absurd without having even learned to use drones in game, or anything about them, is just....
its not the same as loosing your damage bonus though....
Just stop talking, your only making yourself look worse.
Syrup
You're back?  
Liang
Originally by: "QproQ"
When people say "Put 'stabs on your 'cane", they mean GYROSTABS"
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2007.08.16 05:03:00 -
[32]
You know you CAN go to roughly 640 raw DPS output on a Drake with max skills ?
Of course, it means sacrificing most of the tanking abilities, using T2 ammo, and only getting that DPS against large slow targets from nearly point-blank range... but it's doable.
On the flipside, you can get close to 800 raw DPS out of a Myrm with maxskills, while still having a decent tank, even go over 900 raw DPS if you sacrifice most tank... and apply that DPS more effectively, against pretty much any slowed-down target, not just the larger ones.
_
Complaint vs whine | Char creation guide | Stacknerfs explained |
Acid Makeup
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2007.08.16 08:22:00 -
[33]
KD Fluffy is right though: you're not losing a ship bonus to drones by switching damage type when the drone ship bonus applies to all drones. Of course certain drones have a lower base damage multiplier but presumably the point of switching out from one type of drone to another is that one is generally attempting to increase damage by acting against lower resists or catch a fast target. In the real world of course you may as well as do away with anything other than Gallente and Minmatar drones.
The bonus to kinetic missiles is an odd one though. As a Caldari (albeit one who flies Gallente in pvp) it might be better to drop the bonus to kinetic missiles in favour of a bonus that gives an additional component of kinetic damage to all missiles used. I can dream.
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Gypsio III
Darkness Inc.
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Posted - 2007.08.16 08:47:00 -
[34]
I'd switch the resist bonus for a damage/ROF bonus, or an extra missile slot (and PG), in an instant. 
In fact, if I magically became a dev for a day, that's the first balance change I'd make, shortly before fixing the Caldari railboats and then giving the Myrm a good poke with the nerfstick... 
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Jasai Kameron
Setenta Corp
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Posted - 2007.08.16 08:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Acid Makeup
KD Fluffy is right though: you're not losing a ship bonus to drones by switching damage type when the drone ship bonus applies to all drones. Of course certain drones have a lower base damage multiplier but presumably the point of switching out from one type of drone to another is that one is generally attempting to increase damage by acting against lower resists or catch a fast target. In the real world of course you may as well as do away with anything other than Gallente and Minmatar drones.
Yes, but the point is that that has a very comparable effect as if we were losing a damge bonus. Surely you can fit explosive missile (least tanked damage type) to increase effective damage against lower resists, just as a drone user can switch to Berserkers, with a similar drop in raw damage. The only difference is that you have to feel like you're not using a bonus, which feels wrong, but in terms of practical reality, I don't see any distinction.
That said, I think the Drake should get its bonus to all missile types, because it's base dps is quite low. I always thought that was the benefit of missiles. Lower raw dps, but flexible to make up for this. I'm fully in favour with either switching the 5% to kinetic damage into a 5% to all damage, or retooling the ship into what it was meant to be (gank) and going with say 5% to missile velocity and 5% rof. At the same time, I'd love to see the Myrm lose its tanking bonus and go with the generally unpopular hybrid damage bonus, and if that's overpowered, cutting into its hi-slots.
They were meant to be gank BC, after all.
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Ashaz
Mindstar Technology
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.08.16 09:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
on test server drake had rof bonus, and myrmidon had 120m3 drone bay.... funny which ships got changed and in which way.... if drake could choose its damage it would be a fantastic ship. It might actually be able to kill some stuff... oh well.
say what now?
You can't chose what missiles to load?
...and the myrm had only 100m3 iirc, but yea. point taken. Altho there was that little problem of the myrm sucking ass before that change.
And it still looks like crap, so i refuse to fly one ^^
iDrone |
Ashaz
Mindstar Technology
United Confederation of Corporations
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Posted - 2007.08.16 09:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy
Quote:
They just have to sacrifice some base dps if they switch damagetypes, just as like droneboats and projectile users.
drone boats don't sacrifice any dps to switch damage types..........
please. get a clue before you reply like that.
Thermal drones do huge damage. kin drones do less. Explo drones do the least... and EM drones don't count.
plus, you can't load all 4 types in your dronebay, like you can with missiles. Havet o dock up to switch.
iDrone |
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