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K'thang
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Posted - 2004.02.06 04:49:00 -
[91]
The thing is, I bet CCP needs more than 90 posts on a thread to reconsider removing Zor. And that's if there were 90 individual posts. If they got 500-1000 personal replies to this thread then maybe. The rest of the community, and that's the majority, wants him gone. 
Personally I want him to stay so I can continue trying to beat that sucker  But if he gets deleted from lvl3 missions he'd sure be showing up in lvl4 ones....I hope.
K.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.02.06 05:47:00 -
[92]
"Zor should be L4 IMO"
... Level 4 missions are supposed to be geared towards whole corporations. One battleship with few escort cruisers isn't exactly something that requires collective effort to take down.
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.02.06 06:08:00 -
[93]
Know this won't happen, but IMHO.....
They should just do away with levels alltogether. Your standing affects the type of mission you get. reward, eq, etc etc.
Maybe toss in another factor for navy agents... skillpoints.
All you need are personal agents, and corp agents.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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K'thang
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Posted - 2004.02.06 06:10:00 -
[94]
 Quote:
Know this won't happen, but IMHO.....
They should just do away with levels alltogether. Your standing affects the type of mission you get. reward, eq, etc etc.
Maybe toss in another factor for navy agents... skillpoints.
All you need are personal agents, and corp agents.
Hear hear, I second that
K.
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Rancid Mare
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Posted - 2004.02.06 08:49:00 -
[95]
Quote:
Look I play this game for entertainment, what I do ingame must therefor have an entertainment value. To be quite honost "pwn'ing" some lame cruisers that cant even dent my shields no matter how hard they try isnt really fun. Fighting a bs on the other hand, is a challenge, and therefor its fun, it's something to do some lame cargo runs for.
thats gotta be the most simple and clear reason for keeping Zor.
he brings a little interest and fun to an otherwise boring game.
as with most people i can do any other mission with out having to pay any attention at all.
take item x to station y = boring...
go here and kill 2x8k nastys = boring
go have a mele with 500k BS = head up..game on...all hands to deck...whooo hooo..here we go.
can we please have something to do...
something of interest..something with some content. currently Zor is the only thing that comes close and now there taking that away.
wheres the fun ?
Rancid Mare of the EveMarshals.
Our Webby
Recruitement Videos here |
Grimmy Deathstar
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Posted - 2004.02.06 09:28:00 -
[96]
Keep Zor....
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Xailia
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Posted - 2004.02.06 10:06:00 -
[97]
"... Level 4 missions are supposed to be geared towards whole corporations. One battleship with few escort cruisers isn't exactly something that requires collective effort to take down."
IIRC, L4 missions are for Groups, L5 are for Corps. Though there are many people who can take Zor down solo.
About a week ago I saw a suggestion for having different choices from your agent. A range of difficulties, the higher difficulties giving you more, but having more risk.
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel." |
DB Preacher
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Posted - 2004.02.06 10:45:00 -
[98]
Damn, I hope they do keep zor... My corpmates and I have been buzzing about getting to fight the infamous zor in our kestrels ever since we heard he was in the game!!
I have almost got a lvl 3 agent now too!
pwease ccp, leave him in :)
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2004.02.06 10:56:00 -
[99]
Quote:
Could you guys post WHY you want to do BS kill missions? At least would get to the meat of the issue then. I can only come up with negative reasons right now, and maybe someone else's viewpoints will show me the positives.
Very happy to m'dear,
Firstly, its a nice change in the intensity of battles against hopelessly outmatched cruisers. ProphetGuru has already covered the ways in which the battleship spawn in agent missions is a useful alternative to hunting deep in space. The "Zor" mission provides a mid difficulty currently unavailable in the game. I still think there isn't enough variation in challenge level in 0.0 hunting. Its either dullsville or suicide.
Secondly, its actually a chance for strangers to do cooporative play! There is nothing to be ashamed about asking for some help occassionally. I still remember foundly my days of being a new player, getting into trouble and asking for help in local, and being very pleasently surprised to get it. Challenges like this will open up the game and encourage loners to talk. Thats got to be a good thing.
Thirdly, it represents potential for agent running. Many of us have done a fair bit since castor, and have pretty good ratings with the NPC corps. Its nice to know that a little bit of excellent fun and challenge waits at the end of the agent treadmill. I certainly agree with earlier posters that missions like this should come with high effective quality and ratings as a rule, but the presence in-game of these super missions at a level really help to spice up a fairly dull endeavour.
Fourthly, I see Zor as a taster and glance at things to come. I would hope in the future that more of these hard level 3 missions are introduced as the top end of available contracts for people with extremely ratings and reputation with the vendor. jOsephine has, as always, hit the nail on the head for the Zor=Level 4 fallacy, because in truth the poor chap really is no challenge for even a small group of corp mates properly equipped.
At the end of the day, I will really miss Zor if the devs remove him.
I have a 9.5 ish for Fedint, effective standing over 50, and I very much liked the illusion that these ratings delivered decent return!
With Zor its back to the grind of substandard piecemeal rewards, rubbish cruiser kill missions and ferrying nonsense from place to place.
/wistful sigh ....
JF Public Forum |
Cassiopee
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Posted - 2004.02.06 11:32:00 -
[100]
Please keep Zor in game !! Its a lot of fun to kill him, missions are so boring without him 
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.02.06 11:39:00 -
[101]
Zor should be lvl 4.. He's really easy as Jash pointed out, but it's just silly when you can use a nice cruiser for every single missione EXCEPT that one ??
Sure I enjoyed pwning him a few times.. but that doesn't mean it makes sense to have him as lvl 3..
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Shevar
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Posted - 2004.02.06 12:24:00 -
[102]
Tyrrax as stated before, since castor there is another bs kill mission as well which you cant use a cruiser for...
Slaver missions given out by amarr agents can have 2 250k gheddons
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-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Cirle
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Posted - 2004.02.06 12:56:00 -
[103]
Quote:
About a week ago I saw a suggestion for having different choices from your agent. A range of difficulties, the higher difficulties giving you more, but having more risk.
I suspect it has been suggested a fair amount. It would be very interesting to know how the level four system will work, given the quotes that it is more corp based but will still allow freelance mission running. That could be achieved by a choice, but equally, one could assume it might be split by division. People are right, in my opinion, that BS missions are for level four (six to seven rating really is not that hard to achieve, if you put in the hours), but equally agree that the killing it is lots of fun, and level four agents are not implemented yet :(
I would hark on about the randomness of missions being a problem, but then it would turn into Ships & Modules here ;)
Oh, in answer to various people commenting about going out into 0.0, some people (like me) do not actually get that much enjoyment out of having to watch your back continuously to see if someone is going to wander along and pod you just for existing. Whether that attitude is going to relegate groups of players to bouncing up and down on small cruisers for eternity is simply opinion and, eventually, we will learn the opinion of CCP on the issue :)
Cirle |
VoxDei
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Posted - 2004.02.06 13:57:00 -
[104]
IMO, Zor should be a level 4 mission - he's too hard to take out in a cruiser *unless* you've either run into him before or done research to find out that all you need are thermal hardeners. The fact that he *can* be killed by a cruiser doesn't mean that he should be given out by the same agents who more usually send you out to clean up a couple of small cruisers.
Having said that, I believe that missions from the class above the level you're doing should be occasionally available (so L1 agents should give out the odd L2 mission, L2 the odd L3 mission etc), and hence Zor should be available from level 3 agents. However, these missions should be clearly flagged as a level above what you normally get, and should be refusable without penalty.
As far as exploiting goes... if people are re-spawning him, then make the implant a direct mission reward rather than a drop. There's no need to take Zor out altogether. It's certainly the case that there's normally no difficulty to L3 missions, and Zor made a nice change (cost me a Blackbird, and a corpmate a Thorax once he'd lost my jamming, so then we called in some reinforcements and blew him into itty-bitty pieces, which was damn good fun despite the fact that I spent an hour sitting in my pod watching Zor waiting for the reinforcements to assemble  ).
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Estios
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Posted - 2004.02.06 14:47:00 -
[105]
Who or what is a Zor ?
F*ck it, save him anyway. Saving stuff is fun
Save Chip
So HMV consider Andy Williams and Dean Martin to be "easy listening" do they? Tell that to my mate Dave, he's been deaf for 20 years.
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Agent Shield
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Posted - 2004.02.06 15:17:00 -
[106]
1) Every player has the option to turn down the mission and not even accepting it if they don't want to do the mission.
2) Every player has the option to turn down the mission after they accepted it by talking to the agent and saying; sorry, decided not to do it.
Leave it alone. Zor should not be dead and gone; he should have the same rights as the rest of us and be allowed to have a clone and resources to replenish his ship/ammo to come back and fight again, and again, and again.
To tough/hard? Don't do it. This is not a reason to take a mission some 'want' to get out of the game. You take out Zor because he is too hard; does that mean we will not ever see lvl4 or higher missions because the obvious conclusion is a level up is supposed to be harder? With an explanation of too hard, you will effectively state that this is it. This is as tough as we are going to go so don't expect anything harder.
If the devs read the forums, they will see the reason given of Zor is too hard, is totally bogus. Give a proper reason (if there is one) for why Zor must be taken out of the game, and the masses may not uprise like this with comments; but 'too hard' is not a valid reason.
Agent Shield |
Sam Spacey
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Posted - 2004.02.06 15:17:00 -
[107]
just had the miision, 3 bs's kicked his ass. Was good fun. LEAVE HIM IN!!!!!
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Jasmine Constantine
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Posted - 2004.02.06 15:46:00 -
[108]
Recently got this mission after hearing about it from others and reading about it here. The fact that itĘs the first mission in a while to command so much debate is testament in itself that it represents that spark which is largely missing from every other mission.
As others have said, you can turn it down or talk to people to get the required resources to complete the mission. For this reason itĘs the first mission that for many requires communication and teamwork with others. ItĘs also interesting to read how different people have found ways past ZorĘs defences or looked for more challenging methods to destroy the Raven.
Please keep this mission in the Game!
Star Fraction
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X 00
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Posted - 2004.02.06 15:50:00 -
[109]
Save Zor!
I haven`t had the pleasure of meeting him so far, but i`d like to. As was stated before, people can easily turn down the mission when it`s offered, and not lose anything significant in doing so, plus it`s a fairly rare occurence out of all the other missions, so not like peeps would be turning down every other mission because it`s a Zor one.
Add to that the fact that frigate and even cruiser kill missions can get pretty dull after you`ve done them 50 - 100 times over, it would be really great to be able to have a shot at something truly challenging, that gives a nice reward into the bargain....
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IcedBach Jr
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Posted - 2004.02.06 16:02:00 -
[110]
Only good to come out of the patch, save him please
Praeludium to success |
Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.02.06 16:40:00 -
[111]
I've since spent some time going back and reading through the last 90 pages of this forum (origionally looking for my post, which turns out wasn't even on this board, but the old board.. suck)
Beyond finding a surprising amount of missed dates by Papa, I found the following posts of interest:
Papa on Level 4-5 being corp missions
Papa on hoping level 4 would be in by September/October
So it's obvious that level 3 is the stop of the solo missions which would, initially sway you to think that Zor should be in Level 3. The counter to this is that some corps actually take the WHOLE CORP (being 4 people) to do it, and even then can't and call on their friend Wraeththu to come bail them out.
The question then is, WHO is that mission designed for.
A good majority of the more vocal people here on the forums are old players. I would bet (given my shotty skill choice and laxidasical training attitude) that I'm probably on the WAY low side here with 5.5M SP.
This skews our viewpoint slightly.
The question then begs to ask, what was the inital design choice for who would be doing these missions and for what reasons?
That appears to be in flux, given papa's recent change as to the viability of missions as a whole.
I really hope that Papa can take the 3 longer 'why do you like these missions' posts and return them to the Lead Designers for review, because this is what I get out of them:
1.) There's still not enough granularity within the NPC spawn pattern, and the spawn rate is far too fast, and it forces us to find our spawns elsewhere[/*]
But I question the following:
How many people are using this system as a way to fight NPC BS and cruiser battles in a protected environment. Aka not in 0.0? If that's true, then that suggests there's something flawed in the game's design, or that missions contrary to the game.
There's something to be said that maybe the old mission and their pay WERE correct, and that we're all just exploiting the system.
Food for thought.
I'm making no yays or nays in this post as to Zor's fate, as I've decided there's too many unknowns for me to make a guess. I'll have to bow to the Dev's understanding of the level granularity.
The one thing though that seems to be missed is, shrinking the granularity isn't a GOOD thing. They can always ADD Level 6 agents if they want to increase the difficulty. By making Level 3's harder, all you're doing is making the "carrot and stick" game more difficult for new players.
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Grey Area
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Posted - 2004.02.06 17:08:00 -
[112]
ARGH! So many people saying "Please put in a warning about how hard he is". Why? If you ain't got the common sense to warp in to 60km, right click the enemies and do a "show info", then you should be removed from the gene pool.
You can always warp out again if you thought "Nah, I can take them in my probe"
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* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
Raphael Argus
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Posted - 2004.02.06 17:32:00 -
[113]
Leave Zor in the game, but maybe add a warning so people know he is in a battleship. I have only had one shot at him so far on the day right after the patch came out. The node I was on went nuts and wouldn't let me out of the station. I had to cancel the mission because my petition was not resolved in time. I want a rematch
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.06 18:35:00 -
[114]
Quote:
Zor should be lvl 4.. He's really easy as Jash pointed out, but it's just silly when you can use a nice cruiser for every single missione EXCEPT that one ??
Sure I enjoyed pwning him a few times.. but that doesn't mean it makes sense to have him as lvl 3..
Whith the vulnerabilities Zor has, what's to say a nice cruiser can't take him out? Damage in a single damage spectrum using a weapon that can be intercepted, unlike turrets.
Shield hardeners: no special high skill requirements to use them.
Defender missiles/Smartbombs: no special high skill requirements to use them
Armor hardeners: no special high skill requirements to use them.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Karsten
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Posted - 2004.02.06 18:54:00 -
[115]
yeah save Zor.
He is not nice but he makes a boring mission evening interesting.
Karsten
Karsten
"All your ISK belong to the Viking Brewery" |
Cindy Goodwill
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Posted - 2004.02.06 19:48:00 -
[116]
perhaps add a warning msg (like the one you get when you speak for the first time to your agent, you get the warning that declining will decrease your standing)
but i think he should be good to take out with my corp
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Watch my leet everchanging dynamic signature \o/
http://www.games-on.nl/~cu2moro/evesigphp/icon.php?blaat=.GIF |
Samurai Jack
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Posted - 2004.02.06 20:34:00 -
[117]
The most fun I have had in ages was wasting Zor with my corpmates!
Please don't remove this taster of how PvE should be...
Save Zor... until the next time...
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Ayar Cachi
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Posted - 2004.02.06 20:46:00 -
[118]
Save Zor!
It's a nice taste of upcoming more involved missions coming later (not soon :( )
Some other mission runners and I have been discussing about how we will deal with him *together*. (without kickass apoc loadouts and such) That's really cool.
DON'T remove interesting, fun things from the game. Fine, most Level 3 missions can be done Solo. Here is one (1) that ppl can cooperate if they need to, or do themselves if they are able.
DON'T listen to the whiners who want a Least Common Denominator EVE! There are ppl who can handle Zor themselves. There are others who can get a gang together and do it.
Thanks for putting a truly challenging fight in there, it was brilliant move!
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Wraeththu
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Posted - 2004.02.06 20:56:00 -
[119]
So all the last posts have been "I have fun with my corp mates" Which in and off itself proves it's a level 4 mission
This whole post is starting to sadden me. It's like the pitchfork mob is marching on Versaille, but when they get to the gate and the nobles give them a box of donuts and everyone's like "eh, maybe this revolution isn't so important".
1.) People are using missions as their primary form of PvE. Which means PvE is broken, not the mission structure.
2.) People want to do difficult/group missions, which means Level 4. it's now 3-4 months past the initial estimate, why is leaking a few in so hard.
--
TomB: End the speed-race. 1 propulsion mod allowed, make turrets affect ship attributes like +speed/+ab speed +agil for progressivly smaller/lighter turrets, -speed/-ab speed -agil for long-range. |
Aequitas Veritas
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Posted - 2004.02.06 21:44:00 -
[120]
Please let us keep the only real fun I've ever had with missions!
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