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Battle Report - RISE vs RAswarm/TCF/Pandemic Legion : RIT August 17th

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Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:39:00 - [1] Friday night, the start of a weekend... I log in shortly after work to find myself a gang of 20 friendlyÆs looking for some direction early. Situation stood @ 16 Pandemic Legion, mostly recon/hac harassing core most of the day, light goon presence visiting about every 4 hours with the occasional light/fast TCF gang reinforcing when needed. This required a strong presence showing we would not stand for roaming ganks without some work. I quickly requested on coms for additional people to prod their corpmates, get them in gang and began forming at a POS. While the conventional ship gang started arriving at a RISE POS, a request was made to have all avail capital ship pilots to log in and get to a POS; Scouts were sent out to YY, PO, Gates in RIT (GHZ/5P) and one pilot positioned on the Station, to give clear for pilots to undock. Troops began to mount up and add to our current gang, impressively growing to 40 in a matter of 15min. Orders were sent over TS and gang to move to optimal on P8 gate, as I launched a Large Warp Disruptor Bubble just under the gate to reinforce our position in RIT. The goal was simple, suppression of current enemy forces in core, leaving them a deadly exit alternative and denial of any forces coming into RIT. I log in around 21:00 evetime Friday, August 17th... Assume control of the active gang. Direction was given for fleet requirements and forces began mounting at the gate, a friendly gang that would grow to a little over 70 friendly support, 8 capital ships (5 Thantos, 1 Moros, 2 Arcons). All forces pulled into sphere tactic, 20km sphere, which heavy capitals in middle, bs/bc on outsides, close support swarming around waiting to pounce on anything that got near. Our group roughly 84km from the gate, monitoring the large bubble that had been put in place. Over 20min passed with no action short of a friendly that got jumped jumping into RIT at a gate, before fast support could get to him (one up for Pandemic Legion Recon/HAC gang that had been in core most of the day). More time passed as I received word of Digital Fury Alliance mentioning if we were bored, they had some action up in North Feythabolis. Their situation on secure channels put 70 hostiles poised in their system, pounding on the ZS-Cynojammer. Formal request was sent to see if we could assist and seeing how we did not have much resistance with the fleet we had assembled as Pandemic Legion had gone to the shadows, not so much as even de-cloaking and giving any position on them. I began to update the group on our possible withdraw from the P8 gate and movement to DFC land with possible bridge from RIT area to ZS if it could be negotiated with bob. Few min pass, while gathering intel on what ships I would need to bring to the ZS bash, I receive word that a 25man, mostly light TFC gang was headed down our pipe. DFC is informed and we go back to situation as normal camping with our current fleet. A short time passes and intel reports the 25 TCF gang @ 0 bubble on RIT gate in P8, jumping a scout into RIT. Friendly sniper group calls ready to neutralize the scout threat as orders are sent for light fast (inty) to blaze over to the gate and tackle the inc. The TCF scout de-cloaks and makes a break back to the gate, Inty support closes the gap, tackles and snipers do their thing, scout dead, but more than enough time to get a glimpse of what we got. The TCF gang holds steady on the gate, not showing their intension to move. RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:40:00 - [2] Minutes pass and an ally request for an update on our situation. We continue to wait for another 15min, with no more jump ins. I decide to inform the gang that we are being summoned to assist an ally. After broadcasting this our gang goes from 74 to 59, losing some of the European contingent that had been on for most of the day and knew that a DFC / CA-Goon tussle would last more than a few hours. The order to move capitals off grid was given and I moved my alt into position to remove the large bubble, to allow our BS fleet to get right to the gate. The request for all heavy support / support to stay in current position 84km off gate was given as people switched ships and protected the bubble from going down. The bubble drops, gets scoped and the alt aligns/warps for station. What happens next is the start of one of the most deadly battles rise has ever seen as an alliance. TCF does the unthinkable and jumps in with their simi light (25) gang and begins to engage our defense sphere, as Pandemic Legion (16 pilots) contingent de-cloaks near our position and begins to tear into our defenses. Primaries began to get called, support is called back to the bubble to protect any incoming light ships/tacklers, snipers are given their primary/secondary targets. Capital ship request are asked to get back on grid and start focusing on their primary/secondary targets with sentryÆs/drone/fighter support repping who they could based on broadcast system. First on scene is Tarentino in his Thantos, dishing out drones and focusing on the hostiles trying to pin him down. By this time the enemy had at least 4 dictors dropping bubbles on our fleet along with trying to pick off the folks stretching out of the bubble (folks were gliding out of the 20km bubble we had established). Shortly into the fight, (which was looking to go very in good to our favor, not by k/d ratio, more with our ability to withstand the fight that was ensuing) a report of 40 goon in YY are making best speed to our core. Figuring this is why the TCF gang jumped in and suppress till help arrived was purely their agenda. TarentinoÆs tank at this time was starting to fail and request for additional capital ships were given. The request was heard loud and clear as most of our support fleet was starting to get picked off by the goons that made it down the pipe and jumped into RIT, local now near 165, 75 friendly, 90 hostile, lag was still bearable, but starting to get noticeable by all. By this time Tarentino was getting into hull, before several capital ships started repping him back to full armor. RISE support using gridloads began to warp in @ 400, establish contacts, call primaries and destroy the enemy force slowly one by one as the capital ships were keeping each other repaired / balanced. Even though by this time several friendly support had lost ships, most of us in our second or third ship, reports over TS and commands stayed solid. The count in local was dropping, down to 132, lots of enemy wrecks and friendly alike, capitals all good at the time, all full armor, few tanking only shield. Still constant reports flowing in about groups of 3, 5, 2, 5 à slowly adding to the fun we were having in RIT at the p8 gate. Over an hour (which seems like min) pass during this, when the word is broadcasted over gang and coms. YY blowing up, up to 70, 80, 99 goon/RAà TS fall silent for a sec, could we take this group? We were slowly eating away at everything they threw at us so far, loosing more ships then them at the time, but we did have the home field advantage where we could continue to get into ships. Capital ships were not in immediate danger and tanking everything they were dishing out. RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
Scavok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:40:00 - [3] welp
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:40:00 - [4] The word was given to began focusing on the EW that was focused on the capital ships, Dampers, ECM; support began to focus on these as the impending LAGfest of doom drew closer. First target, an arazu, melted under heavy fire by coordinated attack, next a Pilgrim, then another Pilgrim, when all of the sudden local balloons to 220, 250, 307à. TS statement is made, àlocal is over 300, we might want to plan an exit strat. Our only option at the time due to the constant bubbles were to continue and kill the EW that were on the capitals, without them, the capitals could sustain even the nasty behemoth that had dropped on top of them. (8 capitals all remote repping each other can statistically withstand an absolute ***ton of DPS if only coming from conventional sources) Grid loads were continued to be used, but this time, it was a constant frame by frame situation. TS orders were given to have everyone load recon only overviews, enter grid in map mode, zoomed out, anything to actually load grid and not die before youÆre loaded. This worked somewhat, but now with over 200 hostiles, nearly 100 friendlyÆs the situation started to look questionable. We were not loading grid fast enough before the group would be targeted and die. Lag was killing any and all of our efforts to focus on the EW. We continued, losing several friendly ships in this action of trying to get any sort of advantage through the lag, first in heavy snipers/light support then switching to ECM only ships, by if only jamming the EW that was pointed on the Carriers. All efforts failed, collectively we could not load grid fast enough, sometimes taking more than 5min to load, only to find you dead 1sec later in the station. Ship shields/armor and hull + pod gone in an instant. Capitals continued to kill and tank nearly an hour longer, support unable to suppress the 200+ pressed on them. Coms through this were very calm, commendable considering the situation. The game had let us down, the plan executed near flawless by our pilots, insured a no doubt victory even given the odds pressed against us, the server unfortunately could not deliver in our request to defend. The tactic was simple; neutralize any threat of ECM on the capitals that would be preventing them from supporting each other. Support while paying a heavy cost with several ships, would suppress their effort to deny the capitals from targeting. They were their purely to be used as a damage soak and dish out the splash damage they could with drones. One by one, the mighty capital fleet that had put such a strong presence on the battlefield, soaking what would be considered millions of damage started to fall, one after each other. Doing exactly what they were designed to do, control and own the battlefield, through immense dps brought down on them, they stood for nearly 2 hours with nearly no other support besides their own, 8 brave pilots and soldiers placing these alliance assets in the heat of the battle. You have done the eve community justice, even through a defeat through server load/lag, you all proved battle, tactics and teamwork can hold up a capital fleet against heavy odds when this game functions properly. It was a simple equation, even with enemy numerical superiority if lag was not felt by all, the losses would have been greater for both sides. Who knowÆs who would have one the final outcome, but one thing is for sure there would have been additional hours of fighting that night. This started as a great fight and had an unfortunate ending for us, would I change anything? Probably not, even though this one story does not solve nor clarify the lag issue we all have problems with, but it does add a new element to even planning with use of capitals on grid. Good execution from TCF, RA/goon for the rapid follow up to add the numbers needed for continued suppression. I imagine there will be several more epic battles from our sides. LetÆs make history RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
SWAT Kat Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:41:00 - [5] Double welp Try Mine, It's bigger than his :p
WT Snacks Anonymous Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:44:00 - [6] I already posted it for you. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=577373&page=15
Dominixa Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:52:00 - [7] Geesh sounds like an exciting fight except the superblob. Always remember if Pandemic is around they will do their MWD Range/Support killing games.
Wesley Baird Murder-Death-Kill	Posted - 2007.08.21 14:55:00 - [8] Good battle report!
Shadoo North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:09:00 - [9] Edited by: Shadoo on 21/08/2007 15:10:00 While lag was noticable towards the end, take it from a tackling nanohac that kept 2 of the thanatos pinned down from start to finish -- it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. It seemed mostly client-side due to wrecks + drones -- module activation was ok. It seemed to me like an effort to throw everything + kitchen sink to the gate in a show of force on Friday. Parading caps around the gate like that gets you what you asked for -- everyone and their brother scrambling for easy pickings. It was a good fight, but pulling the lag card again shows you either inexperienced in these types of engagements or trying to cover your mistakes. The moment your caps got tackled on the gate by PL/TCF with Goon main force moving in from 7 jumps was the moment you lost them. Anyway, hats off to the caps that came back to help one left behind.
Exus R.U.S.T. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:11:00 - [10] Exellent battle report ! Thanks for the read ! Congrats to the Red side. òò
Papa Ina GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:15:00 - [11] Edited by: Papa Ina on 21/08/2007 15:15:10 Edited by: Papa Ina on 21/08/2007 15:14:53 repost
NO BRAKES GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:17:00 - [12] Originally by: Dominixa Geesh sounds like an exciting fight except the superblob. Always remember if Pandemic is around they will do their MWD Range/Support killing games. Who had the superblob?
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:20:00 - [13] Edited by: Local Her0 on 21/08/2007 15:22:16 Originally by: NO BRAKES Originally by: Dominixa Geesh sounds like an exciting fight except the superblob. Always remember if Pandemic is around they will do their MWD Range/Support killing games. Who had the superblob? its me - i am the superblob in the op edit: very nice battlereport !
Papa Ina GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:22:00 - [14] Then again I guess it's fair enough to repost this if you want to distract from the fact it was leaked onto the forums already. Maybe your pilots will think it was supposed to be posted and won't notice?
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Shadoo Edited by: Shadoo on 21/08/2007 15:10:00 While lag was noticeable towards the end, take it from a tackling nanohac that kept 2 of the thanatos pinned down from start to finish -- it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. It seemed mostly client-side due to wrecks + drones -- module activation was ok. It seemed to me like an effort to throw everything + kitchen sink to the gate in a show of force on Friday. Parading caps around the gate like that gets you what you asked for -- everyone and their brother scrambling for easy pickings. It was a good fight, but pulling the lag card again shows you either inexperienced in these types of engagements or trying to cover your mistakes. The moment your caps got tackled on the gate by PL/TCF with Goon main force moving in from 7 jumps was the moment you lost them. Anyway, hats off to the caps that came back to help one left behind. Its not about pulling a lag card, load times were 5+ min for some when we were coming into grid. I know both sides have had this issue before in other fights. This time it was our side with respects when trying to come on grid. While youÆre already on grid and loaded, you maybe experiencing limited playability, folks warping in are dead in the water. Such is life with this game, lessons learned. Let me make something clear. The word Desync was not used on TS, nor did I experience it. The game was functioning, lag (clicking actions) was severely diminished, to the point of non-playable for most of us trying to reload grid on several occasions. This is where the separation of playing a game and loosing to an enemy and loosing to the game are different. RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
Dominixa Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:26:00 - [16] Originally by: NO BRAKES Originally by: Dominixa Geesh sounds like an exciting fight except the superblob. Always remember if Pandemic is around they will do their MWD Range/Support killing games. Who had the superblob? Well at least your troll is wearing the correct ticker... Think about this one.
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:28:00 - [17] Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 21/08/2007 15:29:03 Originally by: Papa Ina Then again I guess it's fair enough to repost this if you want to distract from the fact it was leaked onto the forums already. Maybe your pilots will think it was supposed to be posted and won't notice? if you look at the time it was posted and the time i posted their nearly exact. so either I leaked it preemptively in the SOV4 post or the spy in my alliance and I have uncanny timing RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
Local Her0 Minmatar La Mancha Corp	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:29:00 - [18] Originally by: Papa Ina Then again I guess it's fair enough to repost this if you want to distract from the fact it was leaked onto the forums already. Maybe your pilots will think it was supposed to be posted and won't notice? rise promised to put a battlereport up on eve-o, so
Jomin Herdsy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:34:00 - [19] Another note you should add to your battle assessment, RISE: If you had sent not just 7 but maybe 4 or 5 more capitals, you might have scared us away. Something to think about next time...
ForumPosterAlt HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:34:00 - [20] I'd start suing to become paying customers to TCF if I were you. Because posting on the forums is serious business.
Yoshizuki Iori Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:36:00 - [21] Lag will always be a factor in any large scale engagement for all parties involved and must be accounted for. The problem wasn't lag per se but more the issue of an incompetent FC who placed multiple cap ships in a situation in which they deserved to die. Pandemic Legion / TCF / Goons simply performed our role to bring about the inevitable end. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected][orange] with a link to your signature. - Elm
Kiriz Zule Sniggerdly	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:38:00 - [22] Originally by: Dominixa Originally by: NO BRAKES Originally by: Dominixa Geesh sounds like an exciting fight except the superblob. Always remember if Pandemic is around they will do their MWD Range/Support killing games. Who had the superblob? Well at least your troll is wearing the correct ticker... Think about this one. Though about it. 70 Rise including 8 caps against 16 -10's... I think Rise brought the superblob.
WT Snacks Anonymous Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:41:00 - [23] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 21/08/2007 15:29:03 Originally by: Papa Ina Then again I guess it's fair enough to repost this if you want to distract from the fact it was leaked onto the forums already. Maybe your pilots will think it was supposed to be posted and won't notice? if you look at the time it was posted and the time i posted their nearly exact. so either I leaked it preemptively in the SOV4 post or the spy in my alliance and I have uncanny timing If it were not RISE, I'd believe you. But seeing as RISE is known for obscuring facts and lying to it's members, I'll pass.
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:45:00 - [24] Originally by: WT Snacks Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 21/08/2007 15:29:03 Originally by: Papa Ina Then again I guess it's fair enough to repost this if you want to distract from the fact it was leaked onto the forums already. Maybe your pilots will think it was supposed to be posted and won't notice? if you look at the time it was posted and the time i posted their nearly exact. so either I leaked it preemptively in the SOV4 post or the spy in my alliance and I have uncanny timing If it were not RISE, I'd believe you. But seeing as RISE is known for obscuring facts and lying to it's members, I'll pass. The irony coming from someone in "Anonymous Legionnaires" ? RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
Johnfromshipping Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue if you look at the time it was posted and the time i posted their nearly exact. so either I leaked it preemptively in the SOV4 post or the spy in my alliance and I have uncanny timing It was leaked long before either of these posts where made on Eve-O.
WT Snacks Anonymous Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:55:00 - [26] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Originally by: WT Snacks Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 21/08/2007 15:29:03 Originally by: Papa Ina Then again I guess it's fair enough to repost this if you want to distract from the fact it was leaked onto the forums already. Maybe your pilots will think it was supposed to be posted and won't notice? if you look at the time it was posted and the time i posted their nearly exact. so either I leaked it preemptively in the SOV4 post or the spy in my alliance and I have uncanny timing If it were not RISE, I'd believe you. But seeing as RISE is known for obscuring facts and lying to it's members, I'll pass. The irony coming from someone in "Anonymous Legionnaires" ? A one man CAOD troll corp? Kind of hard to lie to your members when you don't have any.
La Vittoria 5punkorp Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.08.21 15:57:00 - [27] Nice write up
Shamis Orzoz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:06:00 - [28] Thanks for a fun fight RISE.
Vile rat GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:14:00 - [29] Welping ITT. Welp.
Papa Ina GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:14:00 - [30] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 21/08/2007 15:29:03 Originally by: Papa Ina Then again I guess it's fair enough to repost this if you want to distract from the fact it was leaked onto the forums already. Maybe your pilots will think it was supposed to be posted and won't notice? if you look at the time it was posted and the time i posted their nearly exact. so either I leaked it preemptively in the SOV4 post or the spy in my alliance and I have uncanny timing Well, since I read it on our forums atleast 10-15 minutes before it appeared in the sov4 thread leaked a goon alt. I think I'll just go ahead and call you on that.
Irob Urore Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:27:00 - [31] i think most of us have these horror stories when fighting in blobs, ccp un-nerf the titans please and re-introduce more anti-blob warfare.
ForumPosterAlt HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:28:00 - [32] notice how all your posts get modded train corp management 1 noob Because posting on the forums is serious business.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:31:00 - [33] Very well written. I look forward to seeing more of these ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Irob Urore Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:33:00 - [34] Originally by: ForumPosterAlt notice how all your posts get modded train corp management 1 noob hahahahahah why waste training time on my goon main. no thanks.
Zhaine Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.08.21 16:59:00 - [35] Nice report, sounds like it was fun despite the lag and losses. - - - - - - - - - -
ForumPosterAlt HERRO KITTY	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:02:00 - [36] its like 15minutes to have your posts not nuked Because posting on the forums is serious business.
Ayari Caldari Caldari Independent Navy Reserve	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:12:00 - [37] Nice battle report, nice amount of detail that is sadly lacking from many battle reports on CAOD.
Dawn Princess eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:15:00 - [38] Originally by: Irob Urore i think most of us have these horror stories when fighting in blobs, ccp un-nerf the titans please and re-introduce more anti-blob warfare. Yes CCP please make it possible to be able to wipe out an entire fleet engaged in a legitimate capital ship kill with zero risk to the titan and then we can get straight back to people using them to take out a 5 man gate camp.
Lochmar Fiendhiem Caldari International Multi-Player Consortium Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:22:00 - [39] very nicely written, good read. congrats to both sides for bringing it. too bad for lag, possible to get a battlereport from the other side? this one sounds borderline semi-epic.
N'olive Altera Odyssea Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:35:00 - [40] Edited by: N''olive on 21/08/2007 17:38:57 From TCF PoV : A small TCF roaming gang (24) led by a part time FC, now a hero, I think he'll soon get a memorial or something... well back on tracks, they found some Snigg' buddies on their path, they jumped in RIT because... they all like to break stuff, then Goon backup and RA comrades and other friends, and 7 capitals down, 150 enemy wrecks, and "Omg11lolerz TeH KillBoard ! wtf !". Yeah I sux at reports :\|
Jacob Majestic GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Originally by: WT Snacks Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 21/08/2007 15:29:03 Originally by: Papa Ina Then again I guess it's fair enough to repost this if you want to distract from the fact it was leaked onto the forums already. Maybe your pilots will think it was supposed to be posted and won't notice? if you look at the time it was posted and the time i posted their nearly exact. so either I leaked it preemptively in the SOV4 post or the spy in my alliance and I have uncanny timing If it were not RISE, I'd believe you. But seeing as RISE is known for obscuring facts and lying to it's members, I'll pass. The irony coming from someone in "Anonymous Legionnaires" ? Don't you have an Anne Rice novel you should be crawling back into the pages of? ___ Originally by: steamy thank you Hippoking for doing a Jacob on the goons
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:39:00 - [42] You can't deploy 7 capitals in the field and call any enemy gang that comes to face it (particularly without their own capitals) a superblob. Sounds glorious. Nice work SNIGGOON (sorry, don't have a clever acronym that works TCF in there).
Cefte Gray Ivy GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:45:00 - [43] Originally by: Mistress Suffering You can't deploy 7 capitals in the field and call any enemy gang that comes to face it (particularly without their own capitals) a superblob. Yes of course you can. The coalition should have jumped in an equal number of their own capitals instead of blobbing. And if they couldn't because of a cyno jammer they should have sent in an equal number of non-capitals out of deference to the effort and honour it took to put up a cyno jammer in the first place.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:47:00 - [44] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 21/08/2007 17:55:11 Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 21/08/2007 17:52:58 So you're blaming it on lag. Cool. I had maybe 3-5 seconds module lag and near instant grid loading myself. The trick isn't to cry about CCP sucking, try fixing it for yourself. Turn off trails, turn off sound (this eliminates so much lag), turn off turret effects and all other effects. There's more but work it out for yourself. Free advice. Thank me later after you see how true it is. Aside from that you made so many dumb mistakes with your fleet that I won't even begin to point them out. I think you know what went wrong and this is just what you're telling your membership so they don't realize how much you suck.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:51:00 - [45] Nice Writeup
General Tsao GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 17:56:00 - [46] I'll try to be as neutral about this as I can, it's not a bad writeup. However, the lag was definitely on both sides. I ended up losing my curse because I was activating warp for over a minute after I had strayed within smartbomb range of another carrier. The lag was bad, but certainly not near as bad as other fleet engagements we've been in and still managed to function. Apart from remote repping the carriers, there was little/ no coordination of the RISE fleet. Their support, lagged or no, warped into range of our fleet as few as 4-5 at a time. The remaining support was over 300km away at the edge of the grid. If they had come in together instead of piecemeal, the fight might have ended very differently. tl;dr: The lag was manageable. Organization of the opponent seemed incredibly poor.
Kaar Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:07:00 - [47] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue enter grid in map mode Does this help? --- ---
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:15:00 - [48] Originally by: Kaar Originally by: Lucius Ventrue enter grid in map mode Does this help? Flying in system map mode eliminates almost all grid loading time.
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:22:00 - [49] Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 21/08/2007 18:23:29 Originally by: General Tsao I'll try to be as neutral about this as I can, it's not a bad writeup. However, the lag was definitely on both sides. I ended up losing my curse because I was activating warp for over a minute after I had strayed within smartbomb range of another carrier. The lag was bad, but certainly not near as bad as other fleet engagements we've been in and still managed to function. Apart from remote repping the carriers, there was little/ no coordination of the RISE fleet. Their support, lagged or no, warped into range of our fleet as few as 4-5 at a time. The remaining support was over 300km away at the edge of the grid. If they had come in together instead of piecemeal, the fight might have ended very differently. tl;dr: The lag was manageable. Organization of the opponent seemed incredibly poor. I can see your perspective, it would look like were coming in at seprate times etc. The issues were folks dropping out of game loading grid, computers freezing, loading at different times. There were orders on several occations where all support were pulled out of fight, leaving carriers to do their thing, meet back at a POS, align, one person would get to the gridload and the group would warp collectively to that gridload in minimap mode. The problem was, we wouldnt load as a team, some getting to what they though was the gridload, but was actually an emergancy warp spot off grid as they tried to load. It probably looked like mass confusion on our side through folks already on grid, but orders were broadcasted, folks did meet and there was exceptional teamwork in the effort to try to get back in the battle. Trust me, if we coulda been on grid attacking we would have been. RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:27:00 - [50] Nice report Rise, thanks :)
Gokil North Eastern Swat	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:32:00 - [51] I was unable to be there, but I do have one question for the participants. There was clearly a lot of lag as there is for many large scale fleet battles, but were there notable desyncs (or any)?
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Gokil I was unable to be there, but I do have one question for the participants. There was clearly a lot of lag as there is for many large scale fleet battles, but were there notable desyncs (or any)? no desync for me RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
PriestWithKnives Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:37:00 - [53] When has putting capitals on a gate ever been a good idea? Hint: Ask Shrike.
Mistae Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:45:00 - [54] Instead of questioning whether the lag was bad, very bad, terrible, or un-playable; both sides should be making the point that CCP's dismal failure at fixing this problem is utterly inexcusable. Players invest 100s of hours into building skills and buying ships to engage in fleet battles. When a major fleet battle occurs the game engine craps out, not just some of the time but all the time. There is a term for software in which a central function is broken, namely beta software. While winning is certainly preferable to losing. Defeating an opponent who was not handicapped by a failure of the game engine itself, is far more satisfying. What I do not understand, is why there is not more collective outrage about CCP's refusal to fix a core aspect of the game. I say refuse because ultimately you can solve virtually all software or hardware problems if you are willing to invest the money necessary to hire the programming talent or purchase the equipment.
sakana North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:47:00 - [55] I would say Good Fight, but its very lame how your trying to pass it all off as the servers fault. You think we had no lag? I was getting 1 frame per second, which isnt fun in a vaga with fighters chasing you :/
Scatim Helicon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:48:00 - [56] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue There were orders on several occasions where all support were pulled out of fight, leaving carriers to do their thing, meet back at a POS, align, one person would get to the grid load and the group would warp collectively to that gridload in minimap mode. NO PSYDUCK BIG ENOUGH
WT Snacks Anonymous Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:50:00 - [57] Originally by: Mistae Instead of questioning whether the lag was bad, very bad, terrible, or un-playable; both sides should be making the point that CCP's dismal failure at fixing this problem is utterly inexcusable. Players invest 100s of hours into building skills and buying ships to engage in fleet battles. When a major fleet battle occurs the game engine craps out, not just some of the time but all the time. There is a term for software in which a central function is broken, namely beta software. While winning is certainly preferable to losing. Defeating an opponent who was not handicapped by a failure of the game engine itself, is far more satisfying. What I do not understand, is why there is not more collective outrage about CCP's refusal to fix a core aspect of the game. I say refuse because ultimately you can solve virtually all software or hardware problems if you are willing to invest the money necessary to hire the programming talent or purchase the equipment. Only there was no lag for goons. DevSwarm, amirite?
Mistress Suffering Einherjar Rising	Posted - 2007.08.21 18:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Mistae Instead of questioning whether the lag was bad, very bad, terrible, or un-playable; both sides should be making the point that CCP's dismal failure at fixing this problem is utterly inexcusable. Players invest 100s of hours into building skills and buying ships to engage in fleet battles. When a major fleet battle occurs the game engine craps out, not just some of the time but all the time. There is a term for software in which a central function is broken, namely beta software. While winning is certainly preferable to losing. Defeating an opponent who was not handicapped by a failure of the game engine itself, is far more satisfying. What I do not understand, is why there is not more collective outrage about CCP's refusal to fix a core aspect of the game. I say refuse because ultimately you can solve virtually all software or hardware problems if you are willing to invest the money necessary to hire the programming talent or purchase the equipment. Sure, I'll agree with that. Dealing with the lag which plagues mid to large fleet battles should be really really high on the CCP priority list. Don't waste time with poor additions like heat, bombs, jump gates or cyno jammers. All of those should just DIE and instead focus on improving game performance to a reasonable level.
William DeMeo Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:07:00 - [59] Don't blame it all on lag. Yarr
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:14:00 - [60] I have said it before and I will say it again for folks with a reading comprehension of a 3rd grader. It was a great fight and would have continued to be a great fight provided the lag took us out of the fight. Would we have lost? Maybe? But even folks in this post mentioned with what we were placing on the lines it would have been a tough battle. Key points for folks that donÆt read Everyone was effected by lag, RISE reinforcements had heavy gridloads, enemy support was getting stuck in p8 trying to get in. 1) The initial goon fleet of 24TCF + 16PL was very even, some rise losses, some TCF/PL, we outnumbered the enemy pretty heavy at the time. 2) Roughly the first wave of Goons jumped in, mixed with PL/TCF fleet began to dent our initial gang pretty heavy, first capital ship on grid begins to tank whatÆs left of TCF/PL and Goon, you guys almost kill him before fellow capital ship support arrives. Capital ship support reps him back to full. 3) Rise regroups, warps back in at ranged, begins picking off ECM/EW targets and tacklers. Carriers are requested to begin smart-bombing, if they had not already started. Local goes from high 160's down to 130, lag still manageable, battle still raging on. We still have more members logging in and joining battle, our fleet standing near 70+ meeting and warping back in. 4) an additional 100+ RA/goon jump into battle, kills off a majority of our support shortly after decloak. RISE reforms support back at to get grid loads ready, then secondary snipe positions, since most DPS was focused on carriers. We attempt to enter battle again, gridload times are 2min to 5min; once grid loads, I am back in station, dead before I can react. The point being, several efforts were made to get back in there with sizable forces but we could not as a group. Would it have made a difference? Considering we were slowing drawing more and more trickle support from goon/kos/tcf space probably not. But there would of been a lot more bloodshed done and maybe, just maybe enough focus on one or two carriers, to get them out. RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
Kartis Was Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:23:00 - [61] ...great battle report! For the record, if you ask me, reports like these (along with narratives by people like James315) are what keeps this this game fascinating 'cause frankly I'd rather read a great battle report than endure the agony of watching a frozen screen for 10 minutes only to end up in a hangar somewhere buying a new clone. All these reports of the southern battles are keeping the rest of us 20K+ Eve citizens truly entertained. And for the record, why is it some of you are accusing RISE of using lag as an excuse? It seems to me that they were NOT IN ANY WAY complaining about losing because of lag, they were just rightfully complaining that a game that we all pay a lot of money for each month should be so crappy when it actually comes down to fighting. Kind of amazing that this game has actually survived that wretched gameplay experience. That being said, keep up the great reporting! One of these days, I'll put off my aversion to lagfests and join one of the sides for the fun of it.
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:25:00 - [62] What the hell was the dread doing there?
Jomin Herdsy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:28:00 - [63] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate What the hell was the dread doing there? Sieging the gate.
Necronomicon Caldari KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:29:00 - [64] nice report. Carlsberg dont make Eve Pilots, but if they did, i wouldnt be one of them.
Lazuran Gallente Time And ISK Sink Corporation	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:31:00 - [65] You might have stood a chance if your carriers didn't have some unbelievably bad fittings... Like a Thanatos with: 1 x Regenerative Plating II 1 x TS EANM 1 x TS energized magnetic 1 x TS energized reactive 1 x Centus C-Type EM hardener?? 1 x unknown, but since the resists from the other hardeners would be 87.1% EM, 53.3% thermal, 75.4% kinetic, 72.1% explosive ... I assume it was a thermal hardener and then it must have had 0 capital reppers... [is that a passive armor tank? perhaps regenerative plating II doesn't do what you think ;-P] Why do you let people fit carriers like that, it's embarrassing ... :-/ "The whole of NYC is not 1.0. Some back alley in the Bronx is deep 0.0, while right outside NYPD headquarters is 1.0." -- Slaaght Bana
Ahistaja GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:34:00 - [66] Originally by: Jomin Herdsy Another note you should add to your battle assessment, RISE: If you had sent not just 7 but maybe 4 or 5 more capitals, you might have scared us away. Something to think about next time... Yeah, unfortunately (for us) capitals are the best way to equalize the numbers inbalance. We're lucky you only had 7 at the gate. Gotta say I was about to s..t my pants from fear as from staring down the barrels of a Moros there.
fightnkill Greenspring	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:35:00 - [67] RISE? who's RISE oh, that BoB pet #35125 who rented their way to sov 4 :P Anyways, Who won the fight? I don't want to bother myself into reading that huge BLOB of words coming from a pet.
Lucky 8 Minmatar	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:38:00 - [68] Originally by: fightnkill RISE? who's RISE oh, that BoB pet #35125 who rented their way to sov 4 :P Anyways, Who won the fight? I don't want to bother myself into reading that huge BLOB of words coming from a pet. Troll. Why come to these forums to post your inability to read long posts? ** off tbh. -- Originally by:** Nicho Void This thread is like a chum slick for forum alt trolls.
Deeviant GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:52:00 - [69] Edited by: Deeviant on 21/08/2007 19:53:19 Originally by: Deeviant in the sov 4 thread Don't bother with the report, I can paraphase it for you already "We were facing OVERWHELMING ODDS, desperately trying to fight the enemies BLOB TACTICS, but the LAG and DESYNCS made any effective action impossible. :insert fix the lag CCP statement here:" wow I can see into the future, I called 90% of the crap in your "battlereport". You really should have resisted the temptation of trying to blame the outcome of the fight on lag. The only thing that was perfect about your "plan" was that it fits perfectely within the definition of stupidity. Seriously, you guys couldn't think of anything that could go wrong with deploying capitals to a gate camp?
BoB sucks Burning Bush Enterprises	Posted - 2007.08.21 19:53:00 - [70] Originally by: Cefte Originally by: Mistress Suffering You can't deploy 7 capitals in the field and call any enemy gang that comes to face it (particularly without their own capitals) a superblob. Yes of course you can. The coalition should have jumped in an equal number of their own capitals instead of blobbing. And if they couldn't because of a cyno jammer they should have sent in an equal number of non-capitals out of deference to the effort and honour it took to put up a cyno jammer in the first place. This
Martin VanBuren GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:06:00 - [71] As LV just recently showed us in the great southern war, the best way to get your membership motivated and interested in fighting again is to blame all of your failures on lag and tell them there was nothing they could do. Also holy lol Lucius Ventrue shouldn't you be writing fan-fiction or sewing a cape for an anime-con or something.
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:19:00 - [72] Good Fight Rise, I dont think anyone has said this yet in this thread, but respect for not logging off your caps, you probably could have saved a few capitals if you logged them but they stayed there and fought and died, Also a good battle report, from my perspective this was a pretty insane fight, i was tackling stuff and at the same time ninja looting wrecks for ammo as i had gone through 4000 rounds of Barrage and 1500 rounds of Hail and all my t1 ammo, towards the end i was using Hail for the last hour or so. Your battlereport is pretty accurate, but I did not get as much lag as you describe until towards the end when the capitals were slowly dying, however I didnt warp out so i never had to re-load the grid. (except maybe 3 minutes after the initial tackle i warped out because of sniper fire, but there was only 25 of us and maybe 50 or 60 of you at that stage so warping back in i got no grid load delay) Here is a 60 second fraps of the end of the fight as the last capital is dying, you can see by the amount of wrecks that this fight was pretty hardcore from start to finish (yes i have a cloak on my vaga, no i dont care what you think about it) As for Rise, they dont smack in local, i've not seem them smack on the forums, they are generally polite and worthy of respect, but what Rise seem to fail to realise is that the dislike people have for bob is gonna be directed at them as long as they are bob pets, I like Rise a lot more than some previous bob pets we've kicked around, do yourselves a favour, and cut ties with bob, and die with some dignity instead of being thrown in with the list of other failed bob pets like Xelas, Aftermath, Fatal and ISS
WT Snacks Anonymous Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:28:00 - [73] Originally by: Gneeznow As for Rise, they dont smack in local, i've not seem them smack on the forums, they are generally polite and worthy of respect, but what Rise seem to fail to realise is that the dislike people have for bob is gonna be directed at them as long as they are bob pets, I like Rise a lot more than some previous bob pets we've kicked around, do yourselves a favour, and cut ties with bob, and die with some dignity instead of being thrown in with the list of other failed bob pets like Xelas, Aftermath, Fatal and ISS I'm pretty sure there was a reason why Tolon was literally screaming like a prepubescent cheerleader on TS when the caps were being tackled and why every goon in a 25 mile radius dropped everything and burned for RIT as soon as they heard the news. No, they're pretty bad in the smacking department.
Dal Thrax Multiverse Corporation The Core Collective	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Lazuran You might have stood a chance if your carriers didn't have some unbelievably bad fittings... Like a Thanatos with: 1 x Regenerative Plating II 1 x TS EANM 1 x TS energized magnetic 1 x TS energized reactive 1 x Centus C-Type EM hardener?? 1 x unknown, but since the resists from the other hardeners would be 87.1% EM, 53.3% thermal, 75.4% kinetic, 72.1% explosive ... I assume it was a thermal hardener and then it must have had 0 capital reppers... [is that a passive armor tank? perhaps regenerative plating II doesn't do what you think ;-P] Why do you let people fit carriers like that, it's embarrassing ... :-/ Actually from the sound of it the Rise capfleet was reallying on a spider tank and had packed mids/lows with damage reduction modules. Not a bad for small fights though somewhat questionable for bigger ones with lots of lag and EWAR flying around. Dal Originally by: Seleene It seems to me that 'independence' is a relative term these days, determined mainly by the size and number of your guns.
Dhan Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:35:00 - [75] Wow, I don't remember the last time I saw so many flames after a combat report. Goons and alts, disgusting.
WT Snacks Anonymous Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:37:00 - [76] Originally by: Dhan Wow, I don't remember the last time I saw so many flames after a combat report. Goons and alts, disgusting. -dbp Fixed your post for you.
Cefte Gray Ivy GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:44:00 - [77] Originally by: Dhan Wow, I don't remember the last time I saw so many flames after a combat report. Your combat report was a flame. Quote: The game had let us down, the plan executed near flawless by our pilots, insured a no doubt victory even given the odds pressed against us, the server unfortunately could not deliver in our request to defend. An insult to your own pilots through the abnegation of your tactical failure, an insult to the people who fought you by attributing their victory to the server, and an insult to everyone on EVEO who you had expected to swallow this whole, without even a spoonful of sugar to make the bitter taste go down.
WT Snacks Anonymous Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:45:00 - [78] Cefte's burn was superior, I am a bad poster.
Hurad Takor Minmatar Stellar Convertors	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:48:00 - [79] Lucius.. boy.. i can bring your complete three textwalls to one sentence "You bring capitals, and got totaly owned" you see.. such few words say all
Erik Amirault Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:50:00 - [80] Originally by: Cefte Originally by: Dhan Wow, I don't remember the last time I saw so many flames after a combat report. Your combat report was a flame. Quote: The game had let us down, the plan executed near flawless by our pilots, insured a no doubt victory even given the odds pressed against us, the server unfortunately could not deliver in our request to defend. An insult to your own pilots through the abnegation of your tactical failure, an insult to the people who fought you by attributing their victory to the server, and an insult to everyone on EVEO who you had expected to swallow this whole, without even a spoonful of sugar to make the bitter taste go down.
CrispyKritters Caldari GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.08.21 20:52:00 - [81] Edited by: CrispyKritters on 21/08/2007 20:52:29 ..
Daveydweeb Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 21:55:00 - [82] Originally by: Dhan Wow, I don't remember the last time I saw so many flames after a combat report. Goons and alts, disgusting. RISE loses seven capitals to their own gate camp, then try to say that their plan was perfect but that lag made it impossible to enforce. Then, they lose two more capitals the following day, allow their enemies to online a number of towers in their core systems, and generally fail to provide any kind of resistance whatsoever. To be honest, it sounds to me like a little joking is just what the doctor ordered.
Emrod Legion Du Lys GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 22:40:00 - [83] tic toc tic toc I sell some logoff t2 module,improved forum flamming tachyon beam and Bob Lag generator faction item, contact me ingame for more info :P
Kweel Nakashyn Minmatar Aeden Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.21 22:57:00 - [84] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue (...) RISE will fight, even to the last frigate in those hangers. (...) If you think you can handle it better than LV go on. cu soon -=-=-
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 22:59:00 - [85] WHY WAS THE DREAD THERE?
Jitatradealt	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:09:00 - [86] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate WHY WAS THE DREAD THERE? I bet the lag did it.
Wayward Hooligan Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:12:00 - [87] Originally by: Gneeznow As for Rise, they dont smack in local, i've not seem them smack on the forums, they are generally polite and worthy of respect, but what Rise seem to fail to realise is that the dislike people have for bob is gonna be directed at them as long as they are bob pets, I like Rise a lot more than some previous bob pets we've kicked around, do yourselves a favour, and cut ties with bob, and die with some dignity instead of being thrown in with the list of other failed bob pets like Xelas, Aftermath, Fatal and ISS QFT. Hi Xelas and FATAL.
Seth Rock Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:33:00 - [88] sucks i missed it :( _________________________________________
Hrin Minmatar Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:34:00 - [89] So, question: Why did the carriers not assign fighters? Honor? Boredom? Hubris? Did you really think that nothing could stand against such a mighty gate-camp?
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.21 23:45:00 - [90] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate WHY WAS THE DREAD THERE? A Moros can put out more drone DPS than a carrier with good skills. Still doesn't explain why someone would camp a gate with one.
Hubris Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.22 00:51:00 - [91] Originally by: Hrin So, question: Why did the carriers not assign fighters? Honor? Boredom? Hubris? Did you really think that nothing could stand against such a mighty gate-camp? Yes it was I Hubris that caused them not to assign fighters. When i showed up on the battlefield in my deimos of doom they had no choice but to camp the gate with cap ships. -
Stoffer Ninjapirate Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.22 01:16:00 - [92] Originally by: HydroSan Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate WHY WAS THE DREAD THERE? A Moros can put out more drone DPS than a carrier with good skills. Still doesn't explain why someone would camp a gate with one. Trying to wipe out a conventional fleet with a dread is brutally stupid.
WT Snacks Anonymous Legionnaires	Posted - 2007.08.22 01:24:00 - [93] Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate Originally by: HydroSan Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate WHY WAS THE DREAD THERE? A Moros can put out more drone DPS than a carrier with good skills. Still doesn't explain why someone would camp a gate with one. Trying to wipe out a conventional fleet with a dread is brutally stupid. Only RISE can think of such a devilishly clever scheme.
Jomin Herdsy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.22 01:27:00 - [94] Originally by: duckmonster Hi RISE. Look. The lag thing hurts everyone. Its no fun at all, and frankly its the reason I dont normally 'do' fleet battles. But you gotta understand that this is all pretty much a side effect of those bloody cyno inhibitors. The thing is, if you put capships ON the gate, we will kill them. Or at least try. Now under normal circumstances, we'd open a cyno, and drop a brick on them. Thats how Cap wars are supposed to happen, but in this case, that cynogen is up, so...... We'll throw as many battleships as possible at the problem. Its not blobbing, its refusing to believe that a problem can't be solved. CCP created a unsolvable problem a while back with the Titan, and at the end of the tether for a good many players, they woke up and went "Oh ***, game about to die" and undid the worst of it. Almost too late. There was ALOT of talk from the 0.0 community about just cancelling up and quitting eve, which would mark pretty much the death of this game. Now, there is cyno gens, and whilst its not game ending in quite the way the titan is, it means we are forced to "blob" again in the same way titans caused really crazy levels blobbing, and yeah. I think its going to need some sort of rethink. We are* going to take that triangle off you. Lets hope it can happen without the blobs. We can live with Cyno jammers, but they hardly make the game 'fun'. Stop posting, we would blob them anyway.
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.22 02:05:00 - [95] Originally by: Jomin Herdsy Stop posting, we would blob them anyway. no u ----------- HI IM DUCKMONSTER
Hurad Takor Minmatar Stellar Convertors	Posted - 2007.08.22 02:53:00 - [96] look !! I'am a real Rise !!
Gilbert Drillerson DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.22 03:46:00 - [97] It was a really good day. We had just finished killing Bob pos's in 9-9 and Tolon called for a roaming trip, I asked him if it was a suicide fleet... which he denied but i decided to go anyway. We roamed around in a gang of about 60, killed a MC sleipnir, but nothing really looked promising. Then the order came to burn for RIT and that we may expect capitals on the gate. When we jumped (23:23 eve time was first kill) into the system all seemed promising so we started taking down primaries. After a while more hostile support and capitals started comming to the gate, I was primaried a few times and had to warp out and back during this part of the fight 2-3 times. At that time (maybe earlier, it was a mad battle) ordres where issued for more ships to come from goon home space approx 30 jumps away. During this first part of the battle we tried killing one of the carriers but had to change back to support fleet as more rise support kept pooring in. I was certain that my rokh would end up as space dust but it was decided to keep fighting, I am not sure what then happend, but it seemed like the Rise FC moved focus from battleships or that the rise gang wasnt shooting primaries.. i dont know. But i had a quite long period where i wasnt targetted and could focus on killing primaries and fighters. Rise battleships and support was comming in waves that we easily erased, in the end there where 7 capitals left on the gate (6 carriers and one dread), that we started taking down. At that time a lot of reinforcements had made it from goon space (and probably from allies as well) and the first carrier died at 00:28. At this phase of the battle i had to warp out a couple of times due to drones/fighters attacking, but in the end all the capitals died. Last carrier died at 00:56. It was one of the best battles i have been in, I spend over 6000 hybrid charges during the battle and i missed getting on the last carrier killed due to the fact i only has a few AM L rounds left and didnt make it into range untill the very end. I got on 32 kills of which 6 was capitals and i must have killed atleast 10 fighters as well... all in all an awesome fight. With regards to lag, i cant say i experienced anything i noticed, all seemed OK... As you can see I had to warp out and back quite a few times. I was fighting on an alt btw, but im sure that if you look at the GF killboard, you have enough information to figure out who.... Good fight Rise, i think you plan of using capitals in gate camps is awesome, I hope you will keep doing it :) Dont get mad - Get even
Daveydweeb Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.22 04:00:00 - [98] Originally by: Gilbert Drillerson It was a really good day. This is awesome, you are awesome.
Great Guardian Minmatar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2007.08.22 05:22:00 - [99] Edited by: Great Guardian on 22/08/2007 05:23:34 As per first reports, it looks like Rise is evacuating BS's under MC escort. They were seen near North tonight... Cheers, GG " I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Hah! Attack ships on fire, off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams, glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments.... will
Dungar Loghoth Caldari Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.22 05:34:00 - [100] Originally by: Great Guardian Edited by: Great Guardian on 22/08/2007 05:23:34 As per first reports, it looks like Rise is evacuating BS's under MC escort. They were seen near North tonight... Cheers, GG Details please.
Rancid Beef Shadow Gypsies R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.22 06:07:00 - [101] Hehe I believe RISE was still shooting stuff this evening. We are not going to leave the only show in town. :) "A friend of death, a brother of luck, and a s.o.b."
HankMurphy Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.22 07:53:00 - [102] Originally by: Shadoo While lag was noticable towards the end, take it from a tackling nanohac that kept 2 of the thanatos pinned down from start to finish -- it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. It seemed mostly client-side due to wrecks + drones -- module activation was ok. You guys were already in system, so you likely faced the same lag (server side) as we did vs that the jump in fleet got. I hear varying degrees from everyone, and can tell you myself, i didn't see any of the fight . Targeting? Mods? I was looking at what might as well have been a jpeg. I got my new clone and hopped in a ship... I dont know how some of those guys did what they did, cause i was loading grid for a looong time and it wasn't happening. I gave up and went to the bar. I just wish ccp could make it like the old days. It takes next to nothing to make the game a lagfest for some. I remember seeing 10x the number of ships (with the old school drones all over teh f'n place) and no where near the lag. Originally by: Shadoo Anyway, hats off to the caps that came back to help one left behind. With the number of RISE guys that kept coming back in new ships, also hats off -- you showed guts to try to help your friends left behind. These guys rock. You'd enjoy flying w/ em. btw, good to see ya around! Its a pleasure to have to fly vs the best.
Superbus Maximus Gallente Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.22 08:00:00 - [103] Originally by: HankMurphy Originally by: Shadoo While lag was noticable towards the end, take it from a tackling nanohac that kept 2 of the thanatos pinned down from start to finish -- it wasn't as bad as you make it out to be. It seemed mostly client-side due to wrecks + drones -- module activation was ok. You guys were already in system, so you likely faced the same lag (server side) as we did vs that the jump in fleet got. I hear varying degrees from everyone, and can tell you myself, i didn't see any of the fight . Targeting? Mods? I was looking at what might as well have been a jpeg. I got my new clone and hopped in a ship... I dont know how some of those guys did what they did, cause i was loading grid for a looong time and it wasn't happening. I gave up and went to the bar. I just wish ccp could make it like the old days. It takes next to nothing to make the game a lagfest for some. I remember seeing 10x the number of ships (with the old school drones all over teh f'n place) and no where near the lag. Originally by: Shadoo Anyway, hats off to the caps that came back to help one left behind. With the number of RISE guys that kept coming back in new ships, also hats off -- you showed guts to try to help your friends left behind. These guys rock. You'd enjoy flying w/ em. btw, good to see ya around! Its a pleasure to have to fly vs the best. Nahh I remember being in a 50 vs 50 fight with a bagillion drones on the field and it crashing nodes. It sounds more like you were having graphics issues tbh. Frame rates do seem to take more of a dive then they use to though.
Relaria Hossin GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.22 09:08:00 - [104] Edited by: Relaria Hossin on 22/08/2007 09:08:18 Originally by: HankMurphy You guys were already in system, so you likely faced the same lag (server side) as we did vs that the jump in fleet got. I hear varying degrees from everyone, and can tell you myself, i didn't see any of the What you are describing is graphical lag. There are a lot of ways to negate this in EVE.
Two Beans GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.22 09:08:00 - [105] All of the RSF and myself wish to display our gratitude to our new allies for their aid in this glorious battle. Here's to all the brave pilots of the LAG corp. You have my enduring respect. o7 - Tao that is spoken is not Tao
Aut Nihil Gallente Pringles Inc. YouWhat	Posted - 2007.08.22 09:27:00 - [106] Originally by: Mistae Players invest 100s of hours into building skills and buying ships to engage in fleet battles. When a major fleet battle occurs the game engine craps out, not just some of the time but all the time. There is a term for software in which a central function is broken, namely beta software. ^^ This Sounds like a nice fight, thanks for the report lads!
Kirja R.u.S.H. - Fanatics Ultima Rati0	Posted - 2007.08.22 09:48:00 - [107] 1 point of respect to Rise for a nice write up :)
J Jugger Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.22 10:07:00 - [108] Originally by: fightnkill RISE? who's RISE oh, that BoB pet #35125 who rented their way to sov 4 :P Yep, and the only one who get out from his outpost most of the time to have fun with our regular evil lighty frogs gang ^^ So respect for RISE. They seems to fight as asian farmers in expensive ships :D but they got balls and show them on battlefield, again and again in new fresh pods. Nice report btw.. shame on me as I've logged off to sleep when I got killed at the top beginning of this battle scouting FTL So cu soon guys :p
Fantome Section XIII Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.22 10:44:00 - [109] Nice report, i missed that battle but looking at our own reports in our forum your report is occurate. Respect to Rise : each time we go in RIT and we know we'll get a good fight and local stay always clean without any smack.. sometimes they get heavy lost but they keep coming (many other would stay in safe place in pos /outpost). Cu in next battle . Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie ([email protected]) Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum.
Sextus Licinius Caldari Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.22 20:21:00 - [110] I really enjoyed the battle report and it sounds quite dramathic for rise, dieing and quickly boarding the 3rd, 4th ship and rejoining the battle... so you have my sympathy and respect. I dislike ppl that surrender without a fight and rise proved this will not be the case. But like any other muppet you deserve to die guys and die you shall, is easier if you accept it. "He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man"
scififreak Minmatar Exanimo Inc Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.08.22 20:46:00 - [111] Sounds like an awesome fight. Props to RISE for taking capitals to the field, props to GOON/TCF/RA/PL for killing them It's nice to see friendly remarks from either side of the fray, albeit large amounts of smack as well To whoever mentioned the blobbing, I think it's fair to say that RISE were asking for it. First they bring out a 70man fleet and capitals to deal with a relatively small in comparison fleet, then they camped the gate with it. It's not as if 25 vs 80 is a fair fight I hope to see more battle reports like these from down there.
coolhand Caldari Kernel of War Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.23 00:53:00 - [112] Edited by: coolhand on 23/08/2007 01:05:16 Edited by: coolhand on 23/08/2007 00:58:47 I wish to thanks Rise pilots and lucius for your fightin spirit during this battle. I was the TCF fleet captain this night. All reports i have seen here sounds correct as they can be but, i would add something. Before engaging your fleet, i had the intel form Pandemic legion gang (Any TCF scoot was sended by me in RIT) that you had a 8 BS fleets with nearly 40 supports ships and 7 carrier plus a Moros. I did not want engage at this time until PL leader told me a goonfleet was forimg up to reinforce us. We wanted to wait them at RIT gate. But you unanchored the bubule. Goon gang was at 7 jumps from us and we decided to bring our balls on the battlefiel and try something. Pandemic Leader ordered us to jumping in and trying to engage the fight. My orders was short. 2 TCF interdictors have to launch their bubule near RISE cap ships with the only Pandemic legion one. And our main gang focus your support fleet and after your BS with help of our tacklers. One main idea: Keep Rise caps ships scrambled until reinforcements come. But you know it was not an easy decision to make but we did it together with pandemic because we wanted to fight and have fun. And we had a lot of fun maybe my best ever Eve battle. So from me and my gang, respect for all Rise pilotes involved in this epic battle. Thanks again to Robimus an farscape from Pandemic legion for their invitation at this fight and all RF reinforcements pilots involved. and i hope a lot of fight like that against you guys and against you Lucius. You deserve my respect and you have it, be sure of this. And for the end, excuse me for my lousy english Few links about this fight from Tau Ceti Federation view: http://tgv.e-graphics.fr/send/files/70513ritualite.avi.zip http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/ArtCor/ritualite.avi if the first does not work try the second one. SAme vids but we had some troubles about uploading. Enjoy the vids and long life to RedSwarmFederation. Bouh, powned
The Comatorium The Ghazi	Posted - 2007.08.23 01:21:00 - [113] Its all about the amount of Beer the FC drank before the fight Join the Drunk side of the Force! ------------------------- Keep your friends close and your enemies closer, For you never know wich one will strike you in the back.
Civrax GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 02:44:00 - [114] Edited by: Civrax on 23/08/2007 02:47:07 Something everyone has to learn when doing fleet fights is that lag is going to be there. People will not load the grid and modules will be delayed: such is the way of EVE fleet engagements. To try to engage and completely ignore lag until you have fallen and/or lost, then you deserve to die. Either way, I was not there so I cannot say either way. Just as a note to everyone, as I begin to see more reports with 'lag' being attributed to losses.
Lucius Ventrue Minmatar Resurrection R i s e	Posted - 2007.08.23 03:34:00 - [115] Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 23/08/2007 03:39:00 Edited by: Lucius Ventrue on 23/08/2007 03:34:50 To answer some of the confusion that people are saying about brining capital ships on grid and wtf was a Moros doing there. There is absolute sound logic on paper why to bring those on the field, but there are a few flaws, that I decided to put to challenge that night. 1) 8 Capital ships on paper, repping each other (ECCM from support fleet, when it can) will last a very long time, I think that was proven that night. The ultimate idea wasnÆt the dps they could provide, it was the shear presence and draw of focus on the field along with the ability to "tank" a conventional fleet, even if itÆs just a few ships at the start i.e even if just a few focusing on a supertanker are ships not on my support). 2) Ability to continually dish out drones, smalls, mediums, heavy...whatever the situation called for. 12 light drones chasing down a softer target from a carrier will shear into them. Most of the 88 kills that night were from unfocused drones, not fighters as the Carriers were perma jammed almost the whole fight, just enough sometimes to target each other and get a few cycles remote rep. 3) A Moros siege is one hell of a tank vs a conventional fleet, providing them to act as a remote transfer cap/armor platform (no guns) and using their solid dps drone ability. They dish out absolute ridiculous dps using their drones, you question that, jump on test and dial a moros pilot. The whole point of the Moros there was to be a large target that drew fire, more on the dread, less on support. 4) We figured from the start, there would be a chance we would be overwhelmed with our first set of ships, but the idea was to have the capitals tackled, allow them to soak the damage, warp in snipe positions with backup ships and continue to wack your support from range, warping in and out taking you out ship by ship if we had to. Figuring you would always keep a high focus on the capital ships. Ultimately the plan was a failure, the logic was there, the nights of testing was done on the test server to backup the logic of the DPS that it would take to beat 8 capitals, even getting jammed constantly ...what would it "TAKE" to defeat them, what would we have to do to deter and or cause a high damage count to enemy while they try to break the tactic. The issue as I said before, we could not do what we had set out to, with 2-5min load to grid times, spike lag (yes you click your buttons but they donÆt respond in a timely manner) .... We could not execute what we set out to do. Would we of still lost capitals over time, would you guys keep pushing forces into core even if we were able to get our tactic down? From the commitment that I seen, it would of been probably the same result, just more kills for both sides. You guys had a solid commitment to take those cap ships down and I have no doubt you would have continued to toss ships just as we were to get it done. The plan is great on paper, obviously not very good to execute. Would I change anything from this encounter? Nothing and I say that being the person that is person paying for the cap ship losses. The fun i had from the fight, the proof that i needed to see that fielding capitals even that can rep eachother will draw the force of the heavens on them, i wouldnt want that fact gone seeing it first handly. At the end of the day, I admited as before, we lost the battle, there was a lot of probability riding on the fact I could get most of your initial support down, allowing for my guys that lost ships to switch to snipers and began executing the cluster warp in/snipe warp out routine, that gamble was a lost bet. Again, solid showing from RAgoon, balls of steal from TCF, and PL See you on the field RISE Fleet Commander & Resurrection Military Director
Seke Faewyn Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.23 11:33:00 - [116] Bah, I missed this fight :(
Milano II Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.23 12:25:00 - [117] brilliant post Lucius. I almost feel like not killing RISE so that we may continue to hear these battle reports from a quality reporter such as yourself..
Papa Ina GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 12:53:00 - [118] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue 3) A Moros siege is one hell of a tank vs a conventional fleet, providing them to act as a remote transfer cap/armor platform (no guns) and using their solid dps drone ability. They dish out absolute ridiculous dps using their drones, you question that, jump on test and dial a moros pilot. The whole point of the Moros there was to be a large target that drew fire, more on the dread, less on support. So at what point was the plan not a failure when we decided to wipe out the support fleet, then kill the moros. Lag didn't do that.
Nekumi Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 13:01:00 - [119] Originally by: Papa Ina Originally by: Lucius Ventrue 3) A Moros siege is one hell of a tank vs a conventional fleet, providing them to act as a remote transfer cap/armor platform (no guns) and using their solid dps drone ability. They dish out absolute ridiculous dps using their drones, you question that, jump on test and dial a moros pilot. The whole point of the Moros there was to be a large target that drew fire, more on the dread, less on support. So at what point was the plan not a failure when we decided to wipe out the support fleet, then kill the moros. Lag didn't do that. Well you see, the mindless automatons in Goonswarm are a lot like rats. If you can get one ship in your gang to get aggro the rats won't switch aggro ever and you can just rep that one tank while you kill all of the ships at your leisure. In this way, the battle in the RIT triangle was a lot like Helm's Deep.
Lee Bian Amarryan Nations GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 13:20:00 - [120] hey guys i have this plan that's great on paper as long as the enemy attacks just the target i want them to attack
KIATolon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 13:42:00 - [121] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Figuring you would always keep a high focus on the capital ships. Unfortunately you were up against the worst FC in eve (ME!) and I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that.
Johnfromshipping Butcherbirds	Posted - 2007.08.23 14:09:00 - [122] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue The whole point of the Moros there was to be a large target that drew fire, more on the dread, less on support. Against most opponents, this will probably work. Against an opponent who has been fighting BoB capitals for months, probably not.
VCBee 546	Posted - 2007.08.23 15:47:00 - [123] Edited by: VCBee 546 on 23/08/2007 15:48:19
Praetor Invictus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 15:50:00 - [124] Originally by: Johnfromshipping Originally by: Lucius Ventrue The whole point of the Moros there was to be a large target that drew fire, more on the dread, less on support. Against most opponents, this will probably work. Against an opponent who has been fighting BoB capitals for months, probably not. This hits the nail on the head. Cap ships do not incite fear in RSF forces. If anything, they simply goad us into a bloodthirsty frenzy.
Jomin Herdsy GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 16:33:00 - [125] I think a second Moros would have done the trick, Lucius Ventrue. Try that next time.
quellious COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.23 17:34:00 - [126] Thx for this analysis Lucius. I won't give any advice to improve for next time, but just remember that, in most cases: 'battle plan does not survive against first contact with ennemy'. - Did you noticed that a pendulum does not swing in deep space ?
Hanns Choibman GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.23 22:54:00 - [127] In the argument of Tactics vs Lag that seems to be made, here's a tid bit of information. I personally was 15 jumps out of the target system and I was lagged out to hell jumping into a far off system that had only 5 people in it. It took me 30 mins just to jump one system towards the destination at least 30 mins that I cared to notice. I didn't even make it half way before the OP was over. The interesting thing is there were approx 100 goons en route in the same situation as me. So if lag was not an issue, These valiant capitals would have had 100 extra players mostly Battleships streaming towards the fight, they would have made it and the tactics the RISE FC used on the gate would have still crumbled to the combined effectivenesses of our reinforcements. With or without lag the RISE strategy was a failure from the beginning, regardless of the tactics used. You don't drop capitals on a gate against Goonswarm and co. Unless you want thousands of players, all individuals like me (No intended blob strategy) all clammering for a position on those sweet sweet capital killmails. We just have a lot of dedicated ravenous players, a blob is just a bi-product of having lots of eager friends.
Abye Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.23 23:41:00 - [128] It is a bad plan that cannot be altered. - Publilius Syrus (I love the Total War quotes) ___ Inappropriate signature. Please do not use this signature. Email us for more information -Eldo ([email protected])
TrevorReznik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.24 01:30:00 - [129] Sov 4 is unbelievably hard to break, let alone in a system that has a single entrance into it. I don't understand why CCP did this, it's pretty demoralizing :( Honestly it'd be for the best if RSF just left RISE alone and stopped spending so much energy there :(
Ohne Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.24 01:47:00 - [130] Originally by: TrevorReznik Sov 4 is unbelievably hard to break, let alone in a system that has a single entrance into it. I don't understand why CCP did this, it's pretty demoralizing :( Honestly it'd be for the best if RSF just left RISE alone and stopped spending so much energy there :(
Daveydweeb Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.24 02:38:00 - [131] Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Figuring you would always keep a high focus on the capital ships. Unfortunately you were up against the worst FC in eve (ME!) and I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that. Why do we even put up with you, Tolon? We should have sent Apple Boy.
Mr Broker Station Gremlings	Posted - 2007.08.24 03:05:00 - [132] Originally by: Daveydweeb Originally by: KIATolon Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Figuring you would always keep a high focus on the capital ships. Unfortunately you were up against the worst FC in eve (ME!) and I didn't know I was supposed to be doing that. Why do we even put up with you, Tolon? because hxxp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/devilishlydo/beesqg8.png
Darpz Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.24 03:27:00 - [133] Originally by: TrevorReznik Sov 4 is unbelievably hard to break, let alone in a system that has a single entrance into it. I don't understand why CCP did this, it's pretty demoralizing :( Honestly it'd be for the best if RSF just left RISE alone and stopped spending so much energy there :( spy
swinghammer Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.08.24 04:11:00 - [134] Originally by: Darpz Originally by: TrevorReznik Sov 4 is unbelievably hard to break, let alone in a system that has a single entrance into it. I don't understand why CCP did this, it's pretty demoralizing :( Honestly it'd be for the best if RSF just left RISE alone and stopped spending so much energy there :( spy Not a spy. Rather, he is our Jane Fonda.
TrevorReznik Merch Industrial We Are Nice Guys	Posted - 2007.08.24 04:42:00 - [135] Originally by: swinghammer Originally by: Darpz Originally by: TrevorReznik Sov 4 is unbelievably hard to break, let alone in a system that has a single entrance into it. I don't understand why CCP did this, it's pretty demoralizing :( Honestly it'd be for the best if RSF just left RISE alone and stopped spending so much energy there :( spy Not a spy. Rather, he is our Jane Fonda. RIT triangle is similar to Vietnam because it is full of sexy Asian men...
Ambre Blanche ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.24 10:55:00 - [136] Originally by: TrevorReznik Sov 4 is unbelievably hard to break, let alone in a system that has a single entrance into it. I don't understand why CCP did this, it's pretty demoralizing :( Honestly it'd be for the best if RSF just left RISE alone and stopped spending so much energy there :( Never ever. Anything else? Ambre.
Glitch 10240 Dragon's Rage Intrepid Crossing	Posted - 2007.08.24 11:01:00 - [137] I didnt get much a fight, made a stupid mistake and lost my zealot. But it was definitley nice, being back down that area seeing you guys again, brought back some fond battle memories :) See you soon i hope Rise -------------------------------- (None of my posts have anything to do with mentality of my corp. So dont flame buddy, yea i mean you!)
Talen Reaper O.R.C. Outrage Compliant Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.08.24 14:52:00 - [138] nice write up .....the lag issue has been going on for what seems like forever ...either ccp doesn't really care what happening or they haven't a clue as to how to fix it ..either way as long as we lemmings continue to pay to play in these conditions I dought ccp will do anything to actually fix the prob
Baaldor Caldari Igneus Auctorita GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.08.24 19:00:00 - [139] Originally by: swinghammer Originally by: Darpz Originally by: TrevorReznik Sov 4 is unbelievably hard to break, let alone in a system that has a single entrance into it. I don't understand why CCP did this, it's pretty demoralizing :( Honestly it'd be for the best if RSF just left RISE alone and stopped spending so much energy there :( spy Not a spy. Rather, he is our Jane Fonda. Nice..."TrevorReznik urinal stickers" ftw. THE PRIVIOUS VIEWS AND STATEMENTS DO NOT REPRESENT AND OR SUPPORTED BY THE MANY VOICES IN MY HEAD.

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