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Ammar here is your salvation!!!

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Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:23:00 - [1] Edited by: Sir Scorpion on 27/08/2007 07:24:32 Edited by: Sir Scorpion on 27/08/2007 07:24:09 Want kinetic and explosive damage? ? Tired of all those that point at you and say ôWTF lazors are light how teh make KE/Ex damage noobs?!111ö Well did a bit of research and respect to any one that found this before since I donÆt read the forums a lot. And this is what I found using lasers in a scientific method, proved and improved, and I cant see any of them Gallies or minis discrediting that. Laser projectile !!!! Laser Propulsion!!! Discuss
Acidictadpole Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2007.08.27 07:38:00 - [2] I'm pretty sure if CCP wanted to add "kinetic" damage to a laser they'de change the laser part rather than introduce some weird scientific explanation. If amarr want to use some other type of damage, just put on hybrids or projectiles.. Sure you lose the bonus but you gain the damage type you want. It's not like hybrids get to choose their damage, and kinetic and thermal are probably some of the highest resists on most opponents ships (they may not be the primary focus, in both armor and shield, but they are quite high). Amarr need something more than a damage type change. They need a REAL bonus rather than % less cap per shot. 1 out of 2 bonus' are used for that and it's probably what is hurting amarr more than anything.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:17:00 - [3] Amarr (spell it right, you nit), here is your salvation! KHANID MK 2!!!! Funny how it solves the whole "inconsistent damage across large portions of a ship's range" problem, and the whole "EM and thermal damage only" problem.
Lastdon	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:21:00 - [4] L - Light A- Amplification by S- Significant E- Emissions of R- Radiation
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.08.27 09:53:00 - [5] Originally by: Amarria Black Amarr (spell it right, you nit), here is your salvation! KHANID MK 2!!!! Funny how it solves the whole "inconsistent damage across large portions of a ship's range" problem, and the whole "EM and thermal damage only" problem. I'm still waiting for a khanid apoc though. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.08.27 10:05:00 - [6] Originally by: Shevar I'm still waiting for a khanid apoc though. That... that would be haxx.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:02:00 - [7] Originally by: Acidictadpole If amarr want to use some other type of damage, just put on hybrids or projectiles.. Sure you lose the bonus but you gain the damage type you want. Projectile on non-minmatar ships: pathetic DPS. Hybrids on amarr ships: huge CPU issues. Amarrs need a REAL solution to be competitive, not rethorics ------------------------------------------ What is Oomph? It the sound Amarr players makes when they get kicked in the ribs.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:07:00 - [8] Edited by: Ogul on 27/08/2007 11:12:11 Originally by: Lastdon L - Light A- Amplification by S- Stimulated E- Emission of R- Radiation This is a game. The 4 damage types exist because they make sense on a gameplay level. If you want to get all scientific, please explain why blasters don't do explosive damage, since that is only a combination of kinetic and thermal effects. To the OP: laser propulsion works by 1) reflecting the laser light (read: electromagnetic wave) and 2) heating "fuel" material onboard the craft (read: thermal) to propel it in the classical sense. However you put it, it's still EM and thermal all the way. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:09:00 - [9] Technically, explosive damage doesn't exist, it is a form of kinetic energy. and realistically, thermal would be the ultimate WTFPWN win button as there is nothing for the heat to dissipate into in space, so 1 point of thermal damage would do massive damage for hours. ----- CONCORD Notice: Don't drink and fly. Drunken jumping can result in loss of ship through "navigational error". Seems familiar?
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:18:00 - [10] Originally by: Ethaet Technically, explosive damage doesn't exist, it is a form of kinetic energy. and realistically, thermal would be the ultimate WTFPWN win button as there is nothing for the heat to dissipate into in space, so 1 point of thermal damage would do massive damage for hours. Isn't all damage related to 1 single thing? and thats thermal? even kinetic damage? I'm not a physicist so i could be wrong. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Ethaet Gallente	Posted - 2007.08.27 11:59:00 - [11] There are 3 actual 'real' damage types EM is electromagnetic radiation - ionisation, etc thermal is heat and associated damage kinetic is actual impacts on the ship - by charges, missiles, particles, whatever. explosive is damage form an explosion, however, as explosive is not an actual form of energy, this would be kinetic. ----- CONCORD Notice: Don't drink and fly. Drunken jumping can result in loss of ship through "navigational error". Seems familiar?
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2007.08.27 12:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Ogul Edited by: Ogul on 27/08/2007 11:12:11 Originally by: Lastdon L - Light A- Amplification by S- Stimulated E- Emission of R- Radiation This is a game. The 4 damage types exist because they make sense on a gameplay level. If you want to get all scientific, please explain why blasters don't do explosive damage, since that is only a combination of kinetic and thermal effects. To the OP: laser propulsion works by 1) reflecting the laser light (read: electromagnetic wave) and 2) heating "fuel" material onboard the craft (read: thermal) to propel it in the classical sense. However you put it, it's still EM and thermal all the way. Sighà.why? If I propel a 5 foot tungsten rod at a speed of X, using a propulsion method let it be explosive charge, laser propulsion, rocket boosters, or compressed monkeys. Wont that damage from the impact be a result from Kinetic energy ??? So this is only to show that the whole lazors cant do other type of damage is not researched properly. This opens option of creating a new set of ammo for amarr. Quite simple aye?
Lisento Slaven Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.08.27 12:32:00 - [13] Yes...I see it now... Let's put special cannons on Amarr ships that use lasers to throw bibles at people. All it would really do is clutter up the overview for those who are non-Amarr but that's ok. Amarrian ships will not be affected by the bible spam. I think now that the Khanid ships have been "fixed" it will be at least a year before we see more Amarr changes. An Apoc drone boat/tracking disruptor boat would be cool =P --- Put in space whales!
twit brent Dark Centuri Inc. Firmus Ixion	Posted - 2007.08.27 12:44:00 - [14] Khanid MKII was a slap in the face for amarr. "Hey we cant fix lasers so we will give you some missiles that u can use with your 10k in missile skills" Well thats fkn great, dont know why i got this 16mill sp in gunnery.
Heartcarver X Bane X	Posted - 2007.08.27 12:44:00 - [15] Edited by: Heartcarver on 27/08/2007 12:44:40 It's a game. Stop trying to bring RL science into it. If they changed the game to fit RL science, I think we would not only lose pods, but when you got podded it would be game over. Most of in game mechanics are not accounted for by current science, which is amazingly why the game is titled as a Science FICTION game. "The point of war isn't to die for your country, it's to make the other bastard die for his"
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.08.27 13:05:00 - [16] Originally by: twit brent Well thats fkn great, dont know why i got this 16mill sp in gunnery. To use with the 31 other laserboats? Ohnoes 5 orso ships actually got some other weapon system so you can be versitile OMGOHNOES. I like the khanid changes. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.27 13:16:00 - [17] To go back to the whole "laser propulsion of a kinetic projectile" for a moment - while it may make sense from the perspective of true physics, from a game perspective, the practical way to achieve that would be to allow lasers to fit hybrid ammunition - so what's the point in even having lasers at all? This has to be approached from the perspective of game design, not from the perspective of Star Trek-style "technical overload at the expense of fun". The big problem with lasers is that they primarily do EM, that most PvP ships in the game armour tank, and that armour tanking is naturally very strong against EM. It would be tempting to say "crank up the EM damage by 60% to compensate", but then that leaves the poor shield tankers twisting in the wind. So how about approaching it from a different angle and shaving 10% off the EM resistances of all armour types? - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2007.08.27 13:18:00 - [18] Originally by: Heartcarver Edited by: Heartcarver on 27/08/2007 12:44:40 It's a game. Stop trying to bring RL science into it. If they changed the game to fit RL science, I think we would not only lose pods, but when you got podded it would be game over. Most of in game mechanics are not accounted for by current science, which is amazingly why the game is titled as a Science FICTION game. Oh god here we goà Dudeà Since fiction is realistic in its own world, it sets the rules of the universe where the plot/story/game happen in, this is not about getting stuff from real life and adding it to the fictional world. This is about explaining to idiots how things can change using the RULES of the fictional world. The RULE is amarr use lasers and lasers cant explode or price their targets, their for thy are limited to EM and TH damage..right?! this whole post is to Prove to some ignorant people that this technology dose exist, and with minor modification a High powered laser can shove a projectile into any ship their for resulting in KINETIC damage, and if the projectile is modified to fit in an Explosive charge it will result in doing explosive damage. Now if CCP will imply this or not or hell even read it its not what I am talking about, hell I might not even support it if I see it brakes game balance but still this is not the dissection. Dman amarrs a caldari comes to help them and all thy do is flame them, I hope you get raiped by your slaves, "No offence just a joke"
Patch86 Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.27 14:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Ethaet Technically, explosive damage doesn't exist, it is a form of kinetic energy. and realistically, thermal would be the ultimate WTFPWN win button as there is nothing for the heat to dissipate into in space, so 1 point of thermal damage would do massive damage for hours. Heat still dissipates in a vacuum, just not by convection or conduction. It can still dissipate through the mechanism of radiation, though. And if my (really, very limited) understanding of physics is right, in a vacuum environment with the function of radiation in play, all items will essentially be heading in to an equilibrium with their surrounding environment. As everything further than about 1 AU from a star like our sun is what scientists technically refer to as "bloody cold", most objects in most parts of the vacuum of deep space will become very cold very quickly. --------
Stitcher Caldari legion of qui Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.08.27 14:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Patch86 As everything further than about 1 AU from a star like our sun is what scientists technically refer to as "bloody cold"... Lol! yeah, heat can disperse in three ways - convection, conduction and radiation. The first two aren't really valid for a free-floating object in a vacuum, but the third certainly is. The Earth radiates heat constantly. If it didn't, it'd overheat. See "Greenhouse effect". Besides, there's nothing to stop a ship from having a heat sink. In fact, it's pretty much standard equipment for Amarrian vessels. - The game is not the problem. The problem is that you are not adapting to the game.
Alora Venoda Caldari GalTech	Posted - 2007.08.27 15:36:00 - [21] what if they just add a 5th type of damage, that in effect does all 4 types of damage at the same time? ~~~~ ~~~~ ~~~~ Take away the risk and it would make flying around in space utterly pointless. Take away the flying around part and you make EVE into a space themed spreadsheet application.
Jago Kain Amarr	Posted - 2007.08.27 17:18:00 - [22] Originally by: Ogul Edited by: Ogul on 27/08/2007 11:12:11 Originally by: Lastdon L - Light A- Amplification by S- Stimulated E- Emission of R- Radiation This is a game. The 4 damage types exist because they make sense on a gameplay level. If you want to get all scientific, please explain why blasters don't do explosive damage, since that is only a combination of kinetic and thermal effects. To the OP: laser propulsion works by 1) reflecting the laser light (read: electromagnetic wave) and 2) heating "fuel" material onboard the craft (read: thermal) to propel it in the classical sense. However you put it, it's still EM and thermal all the way. This is no time to be rational Amarr pilots need some love, and the Khanid updates, as welcome as they are, amount to little more than strenuous foreplay. The next revolution won't be televised; it'll be pod-cast.
Aferah	Posted - 2007.08.27 17:26:00 - [23] amarr sux and i feel sorry cause i fly only amarr but im gonna go with galente -khanid wow no missles skills - thank you -2 damage types - thx even more, try ratting guristas or try taking jaguar with amarr AF hehehe fun right - 1 bonus to each ship !! wow X% of cap use for lasers ? wow nice bonus very usefull really w/o bonus lasers sux, with bonus looks like right but then 1 bonus, like abbadon has 2 bonuses hurray, but u need 3 ccc rigs wtf, ive most cap skills lvl5 and my geddon with 6 tachyons shoots for 3 minuts and runs out of cap whaaaaaaaat, laser should use 50% less cap ( it would be still little more that blasters) or all amar ships should have 100% bigger cap or 50% faster cap rechrging time, and instead of cap use bonus get a real bonus like falloff or tracking or anything REAL -gimme any amarr ship best in class !! or any pwn mobile any !!!! even curse is useless now whats left ? missle boats ? cool, give vulture lasers bonus and take 2 turrets off eos, forget about drones in amarr, myrmidon eats geddon easy wow sweet, - or any sniper ship that needs 2x freakin RCU to fit it well !!!!!!!!! wow wow wow eos, tank drones blasters - abso, damnaton, wow out of cap, cant keep eos at distance case lack of med slots amarr sux, u can tank u cant shoot or otherway, im going for gallente, dont want but cant spend 99% time thinking how to fit ship cause its gonna miss something ........ damn amarr
Erim Solfara Amarr House of Solfara	Posted - 2007.08.27 23:33:00 - [24] Originally by: Lastdon L - Light A- Amplification by S- Significant E- Emissions of R- Radiation L - Light A- Amplification by S- Stimulated E- Emissions of R- Radiation A new tool in the fight for balance?
Imperator Jora'h	Posted - 2007.08.27 23:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Patch86 Heat still dissipates in a vacuum, just not by convection or conduction. It can still dissipate through the mechanism of radiation, though. And if my (really, very limited) understanding of physics is right, in a vacuum environment with the function of radiation in play, all items will essentially be heading in to an equilibrium with their surrounding environment. As everything further than about 1 AU from a star like our sun is what scientists technically refer to as "bloody cold", most objects in most parts of the vacuum of deep space will become very cold very quickly. Your first part is correct. Your second part is not. Yes space is cold but heat exchange via radiation is the least efficient of heat exchange methods but a fair amount. If you stepped out of an airlock into space you would not freeze solid in a matter of moments (you wouldn't explode either contrary to what movies show you). You'd freeze to death faster in almost freezing water than you would unprotected in deep space (not counting you dying of asphyxiation or other effects). Indeed dumping excess heat in space is a real problem and one our current space ships wrestle with. One would think they'd need to heat the Space Shuttle but in fact its on board systems provide more than enough heat and they actually need to get rid of it. There are actually a variety of systems on the Shuttle to deal with this. Yes, in time anything left in deep space will freeze solid but, counter intuitively, it takes longer than you'd think.
Entreri Finwe Raptus Regaliter	Posted - 2007.08.28 00:12:00 - [26] So, if the only problem with lasers are that they only use two damage types, then the Megatron, Hyperion and Rokh have the same problem, would it not? Or if you mean that the acual problem is that it does alot of EM damage then either do something about the EM resists or do something about the guns damage... I've got lasers trained to large beam and pulse spec IV and I've got the ships trained to frig lvl V and BS lvl IV so I'd like to see them getting a little love to, but I do not want lasers to do kin and/or exp damage, period. I looked at my Badger to compare reists (once again) and it has: Shield / Armour 0% / 60% EM 60% / 10% Exp 40% / 25% Kin 20% / 45% Thermal How about having the "default" something like: Shield / Armour 20% / 50% EM 50% / 20% Exp 40% / 25% Kin 20% / 35% Thermal ? Originally by: jarack I de-synced in my bathroom once, now i have no where to wash my hands
Captian Internet	Posted - 2007.08.28 00:19:00 - [27] Simple solution Increase their EM/Thermal damage by an adequate precentage snip Your signature was removed for being t3. Please email [email protected] with a link to your signature graphic if you have questions. -Rauth Kivaro ([email protected])
Safaomae Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2007.08.28 00:25:00 - [28] using lasers as a propellent/force to fire some sort of projectile to facilitate kinetic/explosive damage makes the fact you've used lasers in the first place irrelevant. the flaw in your post is that it's not the laser causing the damage, it's whatever you're propelling... so you might as well use a blaster / rails. lasers (in eve) do not need to do kinetic or explosive damage, it's just silly.
Allestin Villimar	Posted - 2007.08.28 00:53:00 - [29] Originally by: Entreri Finwe So, if the only problem with lasers are that they only use two damage types, then the Megatron... Holy crap I'm never ****ing off the Amarr.
Imhothar Xarodit Minmatar Wolverine Solutions Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.08.28 00:57:00 - [30] Originally by: Ethaet Technically, explosive damage doesn't exist, it is a form of kinetic energy. and realistically, thermal would be the ultimate WTFPWN win button as there is nothing for the heat to dissipate into in space, so 1 point of thermal damage would do massive damage for hours. Erm.. no Heat gets emissioned by radiation (infrared spectrum of electromagnetic waves) and that is nothing special in space (our sun is heating our planet, forgot? ;) ). Explosions however, generate a sonic wave (also known as blast wave), and that is the one which cannot escape into space. I.e. when you launch a missile on a tank on Earth, it only gets hit partially by the missile's explosion energy because the largest part of the blast wave goes into the air. But in space there is no way how a sonic wave can expand into the surroundings but instead the complete explosion energy is unleashed into the affected object. So in fact the same missile hitting the same tank in space would do much more damage, massively. And yes, explosive damage is in fact a combination of thermal and kinetic energy/force. That is also the reason why I always think "....." when I see a massive blast wave emanating from an explosion in any space-environment in a sci-fi movie... But you certainly don't want to bring RL physics into EVE, at least not regarding the weapons systems. Because then you need to nerf Amarr even more. Why? Because if we take EM damage as ioniztation, then all crystals except Multifrequency, X-ray and Gamma would do thermal damage only! And how the hell should an electromagnetic wave in the radio spectrum do any damage at all? Yet alone the cosmological and solar radiation do freaking more damage than that silly microwave laser and I can't see any ship getting damaged only by sitting around and doing nothing... The only physics in EVE is the shadowing of your ship when lightened by the sun... and even that is far too bright on the dark side.

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