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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.02.08 13:44:00 -
[1]
Yesterday we had a little combat situation 2 BS vs 2 BS. We nearly destroyed 1 of the enemy BS (20 % hull/armor left). The guy docked and used armor repairers to repair by undocking/docking. This sucks. Since armor repairers repair a BS for 0 ISK nobody would use the repairshop in the station and what¦s even worse: it¦s possible to repair ship while fired at by undocking...repair...dock....undocking....repair...dock. I think nerving the armor and hull repairers would be a good thing: they should be able to repair up to 80 percent of the armor and hull...but not 100%. Other way would be to make them use minerals (like ammo) to work, while increasing their efficiency a little.
Any opinions?
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zincol
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Posted - 2004.02.08 13:58:00 -
[2]
In 1 way i can see that Armour repairer's should use sumin,how can an armour repaiers Fix a big hole in use ship when minerals was used to make it...
w00t!
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.08 14:36:00 -
[3]
spare parts? 
"We brake for nobody"
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Kovak
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Posted - 2004.02.08 15:16:00 -
[4]
if you nerf armour/hull repairers then you make armour defense next to useless, which then makes a number of ships that can use armour tanking effectively useless. Certainly the apoc, mega and dominix would suffer since armour defense is pretty viable on these ships.
In the scheme of things it would just be removing more choice from the game and forcing people into the same style of play e.g. long range shield tanks. Not a good idea in my opinion.
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Xhanserbal
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Posted - 2004.02.08 15:33:00 -
[5]
Maybe they should but a range limit on the repairs so they can only be used x distance from stations, this would stop the undocking / docking exploit.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.02.08 16:38:00 -
[6]
How about the 80% repair max. solution? This wouldnt affect dominx and apoc in combat but would make it nessesairy to pay the last 20% repair at the repairshop.
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Anderi Bourdieu
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Posted - 2004.02.08 17:29:00 -
[7]
Excellent idea Lifewire. Perhaps even different % levels depending on rarity of the module. (named repair a larger percentage.)
Others have also suggested needing minerals in your cargo hold that the module uses to repair your ship.
I hate to say it, but we really need more isk sinks in EVE.
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11/17/04
Are Formal Contracts in yet?
Divisional Wallets?
Taxes?
BP lockdown? |
Toulak
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Posted - 2004.02.08 17:36:00 -
[8]
 Quote:
this would stop the undocking / docking exploit.
Exploit? Roflmao..
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Cabadrin
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Posted - 2004.02.08 18:00:00 -
[9]
Oh yes, so those of us 30j out from a station won't be able to repair ourselves all the way  You know, there is a whole bunch of people who don't pvp all the time. Just because you didn't web him and scramble him, tsk tsk.
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Araviel
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Posted - 2004.02.08 18:11:00 -
[10]
personaly i would like to se that Hull repariers
would disapear from the game. repairing hulls should only be possible in stations, would make it more realistic and it making "hit-and-run" attacks more valuable. inflicting damage to your enemy should count as something.. imho :)
EPIC Recruitment post
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.08 18:15:00 -
[11]
ur all whining to get the repairer worse? wtf? if armor repairer need something at all it is shorter duration!!!
"We brake for nobody"
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Toulak
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Posted - 2004.02.08 18:37:00 -
[12]
Quote:
ur all whining to get the repairer worse? wtf? if armor repairer need something at all it is shorter duration!!!
Too right.
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.08 18:41:00 -
[13]
So you want modules changed because you were in a situation where you couldnt kill your enemy
While we are at it lets nerf shield boosters so they only boost up to 80% and then you have to dock so specialist can max your shields again
Get real man, some ships dont have the luxory of relying on shields so they rely on armor, and you want them nerfed for your own little agenda ?
I do PVP most of my playtime in EVE and I¦ll be damned if some selfish caldari bastard force me to PAY for repairs every single time I get some armor and hull damage.
When asking for changes try to look at it from all angles and not just your own.
Stupid changes like that might make you happy but would kill the game play for most others.
Spawn of the Devil
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Lallante
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Posted - 2004.02.08 18:42:00 -
[14]
dont be stupid! fix the exploit if there is one (i dont think there is) but what you are basically saying is nerf people who tank armor, making any and all armor mods useless.
I think we actually need a change so that dmg doesnt penetrate to structure unless armor is less than 20%. I WANT the option to tank armor rather than shields (being amarr). but at the moment, the slow rate of repairers and the fact that BOTH structure and armor take dmg means this is impossible.
Lall - THE Vocal Minority -
ShinRa
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Relic
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Posted - 2004.02.08 19:14:00 -
[15]
I guess you also want shields and capactors to not recharge when a ship docks? After all they get a auto re-charge.
Relic
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Kovak
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Posted - 2004.02.08 19:31:00 -
[16]
I'm afraid the percentage doesn't quite cut it either, your basically handing down a 20% nerf to armour defense ships. It's basically like saying to a shield user "you can use a shield booster but if you do you get 20% less shield..."
You have to remember that armour is a defensive layer the same as a shield is. It has its advantages and disadvantages compared to shields but it serves the same purpose. So if you nerf armour defense, your going to have to do something similar to shields as well. If you think shield users would be happy with a 20% nerf on their shields then I'm sure we can go ahead with it :)
Structure is a bit different I guess, its basically the ship itself rather than a defensive layer. Thing is tho, even the best named hull repairers are as slow as a Caldari ship (that should spawn at least one post in Ships and Modules from Jim...) It frequently takes me 5-10 minutes to repair relatively small amounts of dmg when I'm testing my dominix. On balance I think its fairly balanced as it is.
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Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.08 20:29:00 -
[17]
Actually I would like to see armor and hull repairers give simular boost same sized shield booster does, after all some ships foreit shields for armor and other forfeit armor for shields, the boost modules should be simular.
Spawn of the Devil
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.02.08 21:04:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Actually I would like to see armor and hull repairers give simular boost same sized shield booster does, after all some ships foreit shields for armor and other forfeit armor for shields, the boost modules should be simular.
This is a different question - shilds vs armor - no question. What sucks is that s1 can repair his armor while shot at (being camped at a base) and repair by undocking, enable armor repairers until shild are down and then dock. U know...it¦s possible to do make ur enemy fire a lot of ammo for nothing. I dont say it¦s a exploit - i say it¦s a stupid game mechanism and it¦s unrealistic. I dont have a problem with booster limited to boost to 80% - would be ok to patch this too. The problem in this game is that u damage s1 very bad and u loose more money than he lost, because u wasted ammo and he can use a armor repairer (0 ISK) to fix it. This is simply stupid, isnt it?
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SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.02.08 21:08:00 -
[19]
rofl bnever thought id see the day someone wanted to nerf repairs,
lol i need a ucup of tea top recover from ym laugh fit
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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McWatt
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Posted - 2004.02.08 21:14:00 -
[20]
the game desperatly needs wear and tear.
it s funny that so many ppl posting here don t understand this, while even ccp is starting to get it.
this has nothing to do with nerfing armor/hull repairers. in fact i d even agree that they might need some love.
but repairing while docking/undocking and repairing all over again is bad for the game imo.
for the latter, i d like to see ships returning to the worst state they were in during the last day after down time, if they haven t been repaired in a station.
this would ease the all or nothing situation that combat is posing at the moment. a won/lost fight would get some meaning, even without total ship destruction.
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Marabeth
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Posted - 2004.02.09 00:09:00 -
[21]
Quote:
this would ease the all or nothing situation that combat is posing at the moment. a won/lost fight would get some meaning, even without total ship destruction.
While this is a nice idea it is not everyone who can afford to repair their ships all the time. I'm struggling to keep enough money to buy a new cruiser, and if repair costs came in I'd have to go down to a frigate or quit the game.
If the repair costs were just for hull I'd agree, but you'd have to stop armour being leaky.
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Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.09 02:55:00 -
[22]
Sorry. My Typhoon currently has no shield booster or shield hardeners whatsoever. It is an armor tank. I do not want to try to shield tank with it. It does not have enough midslots to make an effective shield tank.
It does have enough low slots to give anyone that tries to destroy it a severe migrain during the attempt.
Please...have a cookie now. kthnxb1!
P.S.
Amarr ships are the true kings of armor tanking. Nerfing armor repairers would leave them completely vulnerable if the imbalances in cap recharge ever get sorted out.
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Qutsemnie
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Posted - 2004.02.09 03:05:00 -
[23]
Isnt this game already skewed in favor of offense? I dunno but that was my impression. so why nerf a defensive system?
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Ariell Lucinwind
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Posted - 2004.02.09 04:10:00 -
[24]
This may seem lame but they (CCP) could program in a delay that prevents repairers being used 1 minute after launch.
This may allow those who do get repair lasers and repair drones to set up repair/support areas else where. So if you dock, you pay the price or launch and play cat and mouse.
But as if CCP would add in repair beams / repair drones, that would just unbalance the game and add in more classes to EVE.
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Came back cause I love you guys :P |
Kovak
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Posted - 2004.02.09 05:22:00 -
[25]
I guess if you set it up so that you can't use an armour repairer at the same time as a shield booster then you'd have an adequate way of dealing with it.
I think that would work reasonably well since people who armour tank usually couldn't give a toss about their shields and shield tankers have better things to fill their low slots with than armour defense.
But I still don't really like it, its removing choice from the game which is Bad(tm).
The only other way I can think of doing it is to remove bleed through to hull from armour. If you do that you could I suppose entirely remove structure repairers from the game. In doing that tho you might need to correspondingly nerf armour repairers as well, since they would probably end up overpowered.
In general tho I think things are fine as they are.
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Lucas De'Thal
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Posted - 2004.02.09 05:31:00 -
[26]
i'm not sure the problem lies in the repairers themselves. we need to look at the initial cause.
we NEED to eliminate DOCKING. yes my friends, that's right. docking is the source of the problems created during battles around stations. if nobody can dock at all then this so called "exploit" would not exist.
repaires need love not hate........
______________________________________________
Hellmar > sorry for the attitude, playing a n00b character through the current state just left me a bit bitter
dev chat: Mar 18, 2004
hellmar> "you lot are just so clever you have a good history for out smarting us :-S "
dev chat: Feb 12, 2004 |
Jash Illian
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Posted - 2004.02.09 06:03:00 -
[27]
Quote:
This may seem lame but they (CCP) could program in a delay that prevents repairers being used 1 minute after launch.
This may allow those who do get repair lasers and repair drones to set up repair/support areas else where. So if you dock, you pay the price or launch and play cat and mouse.
But as if CCP would add in repair beams / repair drones, that would just unbalance the game and add in more classes to EVE.
You were always the cleric weren't you? 
Dunno how that'd work out for armor tanking, tbh. Armor can go fast or slow, depending on how many ships are firing on you/how smart the people targetting you are. I'd be very very very squeamish having to wait for a batch of drones to fly over to me to start working on my armor while taking fire. Armor is too important while armor tanking.
There needs to be a bigger role for support ships, especially via drones. No argument here. Just not sure you'd want me targetting you in a fit of anger before my armor gives way screaming "Where's those damn repair drones?!?" 
I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather **** my enemy.- Rohann
Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!- Lallante |
Araviel
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Posted - 2004.02.09 06:26:00 -
[28]
dont touch the armour repaires but take away the Hull repairers. i stand by my opinion that Hull repairs should only be possible at stations. armour repairers imho is just fine :)
EPIC Recruitment post
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.02.09 08:46:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Amarr ships are the true kings of armor tanking. Nerfing armor repairers would leave them completely vulnerable if the imbalances in cap recharge ever get sorted out.
That¦s why i say the repairers repair rate should be slightly boosted and their maximum repair ammount should be 80% of armor/hull. Plz try to imagine: u attack an enemy, u nearly destroy him and u fired ammo for 100.000 ISK - then the guy repairs the $hit for 0 ISK - this is a stupid game mechanism. Everybody can use this as exploit: undock when beeing camped, let the enemy fire (waste ammo), then dock, same procedure again. Do this as long they have ammo. I saw only 1 player using this - but it might get standard soon when people are beeing sieged in a base.
Realize i dont want to nerve repairers worth - they should be boosted slightly (slighty!). But they should be limited to repair 80% of the armor. A damage should hurt the damaged player - not the one who did the damage and wasted his ammo.
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FZappa
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Posted - 2004.02.09 08:50:00 -
[30]
Edited by: FZappa on 09/02/2004 08:54:18
well , you could say the armor repair units
pick up the blasted parts the stick em
into the ship again :)
theres already wear and tear in eve , its
called insurance costs :p . the player base
that doesnt play 8+ hours a day and worked
for monthes to get a battleship doesnt see
the 3-6mil insurance cost as trivial .
make these people have to pay millions
to repair a ship and u've bankrupted them
entirly .
perhaps a small cost in minerals is the answer ,
its not likely a player in hostile area will
have access to sufficient amounts of minerals
to repair the ship . but even then , the cost
should not be as high as repairing the ship
in the repair bay .
even nicer , if you have to have the minerals
in your cargo hold while you are repairing in
space :) if you get blown out , the attacker
gets a nice pile of minerals as reward
.
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