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Increase the number of Material Research slots

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Aldaerus School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.10 02:20:00 - [61] Ummm ... if you don't want to wait 20-30 days for a ME slot, head out to 0.0 and find a NPC station with no wait. I've been doing research for over a year. I'm based in empire space (Sobaseki). I've completed over 150 BPOs. I travel back and forth to my 0.0 NPC station to pickup and deliver BPOs. I've lost a couple loads to pirates, about 6 BPOs out of 150+. That's a loss rate of less than 4%. Eventually, I set-up a jump-clone to get to the 0.0 NPC station when the routes are clogged with nasties. It all works great and adds thrills and excitement ... which I think is the entire point of a game. You want safe and comfy, then you wait 30+ days. You want no wait, then you need to take some risk. That sounds very reasonable to me. Heck, it even kinda sounds like a game.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.09.10 02:27:00 - [62] Even .0 stations are starting to get longer and longer wait times now. Its entirely a problem of a resource (slots) that hasnt been scaled along with increasing player population. In the past theyve doubled slots a couple times to deal with this, methinks the time has come again but lets make a formula of it so it scales with player pop rather than occasionally shoots up on dev intervention. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Aldaerus School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.10 04:03:00 - [63] Edited by: Aldaerus on 10/09/2007 04:04:01 Do you even use 0.0 NPC research slots? In the 1.5 years I've been using them, I've rarely had to wait. I've not had to wait for the last 2 months. It hardly seems to be getting worse, as a matter of fact, it seems to be getting better. There are many 0.0 NPC research slots available right now. If you don't want to wait, go find one and use it.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.09.10 05:03:00 - [64] Originally by: Del Narveux Even .0 stations are starting to get longer and longer wait times now. Its entirely a problem of a resource (slots) that hasnt been scaled along with increasing player population. In the past theyve doubled slots a couple times to deal with this, methinks the time has come again but lets make a formula of it so it scales with player pop rather than occasionally shoots up on dev intervention. POS labs are almost infinitely scalable, limited only by the number of moons in the galaxy. And that's easily over 100,000 moons. The universe is getting crowded, this is in some ways intentional, any single addition would not be enough, and scaling with pod pilot population just doesn't feel quite right. Max, get a POS or hire the use of one off of someone else. Same as we did, it's not that hard for a medium sized corporation. Or, you can take your prints to lower security space, as I did before I had access to POS labs. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.10 16:40:00 - [65] Wow, lots of people that live in fantasy land The problem is that less and less people will be able to do research and miss the whole thing because the waiting in normal slots is insane so most people will just quit earlier when indeed they could have played longer if only they would have been able to do research Increase the number of slots
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.10 17:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Max Tesla The problem is that less and less people will be able to do research and miss the whole thing Good. More profit for those that use their brain to get what they want instead of whining on the forums. Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.10 17:58:00 - [67] I support adding additional manufacturing and research slots. In lowsec.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.11 15:34:00 - [68] Increase the number of Material Research slots
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.09.11 15:44:00 - [69] I think it's time to de-crease the number of NPC research/production slots.. They are dirt cheap!.. The price needs to go up 10* what it is.. As for "giving your bpo away" for it to be research'd, dont be silly, if you join an empire lab alliance then you can rent slots.. I am sorry but my corp alone has something like 60 me slots and a lot of times 0 are used. There's TONS of moons left, and TONS of slots left for players to make.. A better question would be "Why" does there need to be any more tech1 bpo's even research'd at this point (other than new additions to the game).. Sorry but there's sooooooo many idle bpo's out there that mayb people should start asking to buy used bpo's that have research!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.11 16:48:00 - [70] there are player made services for research get used to multiplayer in an mmo ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Wyehr Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.11 18:01:00 - [71] Originally by: Aldaerus Edited by: Aldaerus on 10/09/2007 04:04:01 Do you even use 0.0 NPC research slots? In the 1.5 years I've been using them, I've rarely had to wait. I've not had to wait for the last 2 months. It hardly seems to be getting worse, as a matter of fact, it seems to be getting better. There are many 0.0 NPC research slots available right now. If you don't want to wait, go find one and use it. Where? I found a lowsec station with no waiting close to a year ago. Then some idiot named the region in a thread much like this one and they were filled to 35 days or more within a week. R i s e killboard admin.
TrulyKosh Solo for UNCLE Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.11 18:15:00 - [72] Originally by: Sessho Seki As for POS facilities, if anything, CCP should instate considerable bonuses to effectiveness (perhaps upwards of 25-50%) of them, but the public alternatives shouldn't be castrated in favor of POS owners. and 25% they already have, yet people like you insist on using public slots? I only invest in businesses that even a fool can run. Because some day a fool will. (Warren Buffett)
Cynical Attitude	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:39:00 - [73] Who is actually hurt by the current situation? There are clearly large and vocal vested interests in favour of maintaining the status quo - not only POS-research corps but also those with researched BPOs, who are quite happy to see large barriers to market entry. Those who are serious about getting into manufacturing will either eat the 30-day wait, look around for a shorter waiting time, use the services of a POS-research corp or even build their own POS. Those who are hurt are those who want to "try out" manufacturing - it is, after all, part of Eve, and should, in principle, be accessible to all players. However, they don't have highly trained PE, can't find the specific researched BPC that they want on the contract market (or don't even look) and thus can't make a profit from it (or don't bother to crunch the numbers - there are actually many items which you can profitably manufacture and sell in some areas with next to no PE and an unresearched BP). They're too scared of low sec to go hunting around for a shorter research queue. They think that manufacturing should be as easy as, ooh, I don't know, buying a hammer and walking up to a forge. Eve is not WOW. There is not only a steep learning curve, there are also large barriers to entry into some areas of the game. Any noob can set up a guild in WOW. A noob corp in Eve will get eaten alive. Any noob can do crafting in WOW. In Eve, manufacturing is a complex business, and if availability of ME research slots is such a huge barrier to your starting in manufacturing, you're not putting enough effort into it, you're not going to get it right and you should be be thankful that you can't get into it because you will make a hell of a mess of it and lose alot of money. Of course, you could argue that Eve would benefit from making certain activities, manufacturing included, more accessible to newer players, but that's a whole other argument.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.11 23:36:00 - [74] there are lots of research services maybe people dont realize that the bpo never leaves a high sec station of your choosing and in your possession the entire time? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.13 13:15:00 - [75] Increase the number of Material Research slots
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.09.15 18:32:00 - [76] Doh. Max Tesla, if you were not hiding on a NPC corp for fear of wardecks, then you could make a corp, put up a POS and put up your own research labs for you and for any friends you let into your corp. He wants to eat the cake and keep it too. That's why CCP should not do what he is saying. It would make the game less rewarding for people with iniciative and promote lazy players who don't really like the multiplayer part of MMORPGs.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.15 18:39:00 - [77] Originally by: SiJira there are lots of research services maybe people dont realize that the bpo never leaves a high sec station of your choosing and in your possession the entire time? Only if you're doing the job remotely, of course. The BPO disappears from your corp hangar for the duration of the job, but even if the lab is destroyed you get it back. And if you're doing the research at a POS belonging to another corp in your alliance, the owners can't even tell what sort of blueprint it is. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:39:00 - [78] Edited by: Sessho Seki on 15/09/2007 20:41:02 Fixed the errant 'Edit' command TrulyKosh didn't know how to use properly which italicized the entire post Originally by:* TrulyKosh Originally by: Sessho Seki As for POS facilities, if anything, CCP should instate considerable bonuses to effectiveness (perhaps upwards of 25-50%) of them, but the public alternatives shouldn't be castrated in favor of POS owners. and 25% they already have, yet people like you insist on using public slots? Reading comprehension FTW! Yes indeed, because you see much like PvP, mining, going where every you like when you like, and so on CCP does NOT force you to do anything you don't wish to do, and the same should hold true universally. Players WANT to use public slots, however CCP has gone to great lengths to completely castrate what they had already fixed before. CCP needs to come to terms yet again with the fact that the initially supplied resources are entirely inadequate, especially in the light that the game population is as large as ever, and there is one simple and effective solution, add more slots.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:47:00 - [79] Originally by: Sessho Seki and there is one simple and effective solution, add more slots. Only to see them filled to capacity and rejammed up by research greifers with shuttle bpos within days.. Moar slots is not the answer.. The underlying system of using public slots needs a rework.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Lady Beauvoir Slutty Witches	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:05:00 - [80] Originally by: Sessho Seki Yes indeed, because you see much like PvP, mining, going where every you like when you like, and so on CCP does NOT force you to do anything you don't wish to do, and the same should hold true universally. Players WANT to use public slots, however CCP has gone to great lengths to completely castrate what they had already fixed before. CCP needs to come to terms yet again with the fact that the initially supplied resources are entirely inadequate, especially in the light that the game population is as large as ever, and there is one simple and effective solution, add more slots. See, CCP does not force you to do anything you don't wish to do. But if you wish to do something, you need to do it on EVE's own terms. You cannot mine arkonor in Perimeter. You cannot PVP freely in 0.5+ sec without a wardec. You cannot sell your products without competing with other traders. You cannot do your research without fighting for the lab space with other researchers. And so on. If you wish to take the other route, set up a POS and do your research there. Or use research services. Or use a POS setup service to make you a corp with good standings to set your POS up. And so on. The scarcer the resources become, the better - it forces players to interact and make long-term plans. There is no need whatsoever to increase public research slots. "Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaet point." -Blaise Pascal, PensTes, 4, 277
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:47:00 - [81] Originally by: Lady Beauvoir If you wish to take the other route, set up a POS and do your research there. He can't do that because is he is at an NPC corp Originally by: Lady Beauvoir Or use research services. Idem. Originally by: Lady Beauvoir Or use a POS setup service to make you a corp with good standings to set your POS up. And so on. Idem. In other words, he can't set up his own labs because he has decided to stay at a NPC corp, so he whines on forums for CCP to give him the benefits of near infinite lab slots without the risks from being at a player corp to get them
Fkn Arson Ionic Defender Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.16 00:15:00 - [82] Shameless post for Ricdic and his Alliance, have had no problems and great success fulfilling all my research needs! Go Ricdic!
Benvie	Posted - 2007.09.16 01:13:00 - [83] Step 1.) Allow Invention/Copying/Tech 2 BPO researching to be done from a distance by allowing the materials to be inputted and outputted at the station you do the job at with Scientific Networking. Step 2.) Create new types of labs (expensive) that are public accessible. Each lab would be like NPC ones in that it specializes in one type of job (ME, PE, Invention, Copying). Step 3.) Delete all NPC research facilities. Doing this would solve the problem AND enrich the game by putting another aspect completely in player hands.
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.09.16 08:02:00 - [84] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: Sessho Seki and there is one simple and effective solution, add more slots. Only to see them filled to capacity and rejammed up by research greifers with shuttle bpos within days.. Moar slots is not the answer.. The underlying system of using public slots needs a rework.. Actually, more slots IS the answer as already proven in the past before the Queue system replaced the static-slot system. Initially there was the identical problem as there is now, simply too few slots regardless of the projects placed in them, prices soared and a market in 'research slot re-sale' emerged and CCP's first plan was to make slot-rent go up the longer you held the slot and theoretically people would then hold slots for less time, the only problem is that it didn't work and prices only climbed to ridiculous levels as a result. Players were indeed forced to play by "EVE rules" for quite some time, however CCP was finally backed into a corner by the angry mob at their doorstep over the ridiculously out of control system they were being FORCED to endure (you know, that thing that EVE isn't supposed to do). CCP put in more slots, MANY more slots, and guess what? The problem was actually quite solved, but we can't have anything that works as it is intended in EVE (glares at module nerfs), so obviously that system HAD to be replaced! And what a great replacement it is, it didn't enhance anything to a better condition than it was before, it only castrated a system that previously worked. Taking the situation back to the castor-days is NOT making anything better, and it sure as hell didn't leave anything alone, so what is the third possibility that it would be? Indeed, for all those in the crowd that guess it, it makes the situation WORSE! And here we are confined not by one's ability to research, but by the limitation of slots that would otherwise be plentiful if CCP hadn't unfixed what they had been hounded so much to fix once already. It's like going have a tune up on your car, and once that's taken care of you go back and pour a big bag of cement mix into the fuel tank. CCP makes things better only to go back with a sledgehammer on what was one of the few success stories involved with the research system. (and don't even get me started on the research system itself )
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.09.16 08:20:00 - [85] Sorry Max but anyone who need Empire research slots to keep them playing really needs to either find something better to do in EVE or find a new MMO.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.16 10:47:00 - [86] Seeing all the arguments about griefers putting in shuttle bpo to clog research slots, people with 500+ ME BPO and all the rest and balancing it with the need of new players (that haven't the resources to set up pos or rent labs slots from an alliance and possibly aren't in a corporation with pos), a relatively symple solution could be to limit the max number of public research slots rentable by a person to a number lower than the max number of research slots. For example it could be possible to limit the number of public research slots (ME, PE, copy and invention) to 3 for each character. The other laboratory slots available to the character are usable only in a POS. It will allow new players a decent access to laboratory slots to learn how they work, but anyone truly interested in invention or production will need a research lab in a POS to work full time.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:08:00 - [87] Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station and there will be no grief
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:38:00 - [88] lets look at it for sec from an RP perspective: if i were the CEO of ANY NPC-corp with research labs, id go quite some lengths to add more labs (slots), because even the most stupid corp leader can see the profit that can be made with more labs. am i missing something there? would those corps cut down on their own profits in any way by enabling more people to own researched BPs? so, from an rp perspective im all for MORE SLOTS, because the current situation feels wrong and KILLS IMMERSION. from a "gamedesigning pov" i simply dont know whats better. the current situation or more slots or any other solution. (like for instance give every player or corporation one or more "personal" slots" that can only be used by them) i simply dont know, and i think its a bit difficult to foresee which change will cause what effect.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:47:00 - [89] Originally by: Sessho Seki Actually, more slots IS the answer as already proven in the past before the Queue system replaced the static-slot system. No, it isn't. The queue system was changed before POS's were released so there was no alternative. Now, there IS an alternative. There are LOTS of alternatives. After reading the rest of your post I can't figure out if you are for or against adding more public slots. Anyway, what CCP need to do was listed above. Allow all research to be performed by the public on player owned research stations. Place a simple system whereby the POS owner only recieves payment for the service after the research is completed (funds stay in lieu to ensure he doesn't pack up the POS and go. If he does, then funds are refunded and maybe a fine of some sort charged to him) Then, as stated above, remove all public research slots from the game. CCP keeps talking of a player created market, and players building off the game's foundations. This is just another step that needs to be taken in doing so. Promote player productions and put less reliance on public facilities. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:54:00 - [90] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet lets look at it for sec from an RP perspective: if i were the CEO of ANY NPC-corp with research labs, id go quite some lengths to add more labs (slots), because even the most stupid corp leader can see the profit that can be made with more labs. CCP don't want the empires to increase their resources. They want the players to build up Eve. That is why they allow outposts in 0.0 rather than adding more npc stations. CCP are able to easily change things to ensure research slots are never a problem again. Quote: so, from an rp perspective im all for MORE SLOTS, because the current situation feels wrong and KILLS IMMERSION. As people will tell you this is a PVP game. Having NPC's provide any and all infrastructure is the real immersion killer. It puts us back to fountain and curse days where people's ownership in space was a few giant secure containers near the gate warning people to stay out. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here

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