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Increase the number of Material Research slots

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Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.01 10:20:00 - [1] CCP really needs to increase the number of Material research slots Today there is at least a 30 day waiting period ( I know somewhere on some place there might be less) Eve gets more and more players each day but the slots do not grow so what is the plan here just let the queue grow and grow When eve has 1 million players what then? Same number of slots? And when there are 10 million same number as well? I see no reason for not increasing it except of course it somehow might give lag but I doubt it Should it not be open for all, research already takes long and now we have to wait even longer? As I see it, it would even make people leave eve since because of the insane long queues less people would be able to explore that part of eve and that is one thing less keeping them in game Research takes long there is no reason for the insane long queues It is like housing more and more people need a house but few new houses are created only when an alliance decides to build something but that hardly covers the demand And why should only people part of that alliance get to research Alliance members can use normal research slots as well to their alliance slots but people who do not want to be part of an alliance get nothing Just increase the number of slots to 200 per each station. What would be the problem will the world end? Researching already takes long time there is no need for these long queues
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.01 10:24:00 - [2] Or... you just pay us to use our slots. Or Ricdic. But preferably us.
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.01 10:38:00 - [3] It has always been a problem. Clearly, people take slots to prevent others to research anything. I saw a BPC researched to level 576 the other day, when you think 20 for a ship and 100 for ammo is more than enough. There are many ways to fix this. Put a research limit. Above a certain number the research is over. Increase the price of material research. Level 1 1000 isk, Level 2 4000 isk, level 3 16000 and so on, Increase the price of lab rental when all are busy as it is done for offices. I think it was working this way 2 years ago I don't know why it changed. Specialize slots. Make some labs for ship research, some for modules, some for ammos and so on. This way someone cannot buy a civilan shield booster BPO and prevent others to research ships ME. Any of this would require that CCP wants to fix the problem of course. On a side note I don't think it has anything to see with research alliances, it always been like that, even before you could build research facilities.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.09.01 10:38:00 - [4] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 01/09/2007 10:38:23 Originally by: Amarria Black Or... you just pay us to use our slots. Or Ricdic. But preferably us. preferrebly ricdic as i own a few shares ^^ - putting the gist back into logistics
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.02 07:19:00 - [5] No no no and no There are lines everywhere and you can not trust anyone with anything OOOOO please give us all your money and after you are done researching we will take that awful bpo off your hands Increase the number of research slots so that everyone can do research within a normal amount of time
Gusy	Posted - 2007.09.02 07:41:00 - [6] Originally by: Max Tesla It is like housing more and more people need a house but few new houses are created only when an alliance decides to build something but that hardly covers the demand Thats why there is plenty of social housing (empire research slots) for people with genuine need. There is also a waiting list for this. If you want a nice new house get some land and build one yourself (put up a pos). So yes, its exactly like housing,
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.02 07:50:00 - [7] In the very begining you could own slots. Basically you came to a station and spotted a free slot and claimed it. As long as you kept peying the rental fee it would be closed to others. This led to about1% of the available slots being free and about 3% being used, the remaining 96% were simply blocked so others could not use them. One major mistake was to alow a corp to rent any number of slots, the skill limit was only to individuals. To fix this CCP changed it so that an empty slot would be unrented and become available to the public. This was a great move, about 70% of the slots opened upp and only the slots in high population areas and their close region would be locked down. Those areas however remained locked down and people would do silly research in order to keep their slots (most 200+ me BP's are from this period). After a while CCP realized that slots in high dencity places were being sold for huge ammounts of isk and that thy were mostly not being used as intended so they had a good think and set upp the rules for escalating cost. in short this ment that for every day a station would have 0 slots open the prices would rise by 5%, if 1 slot was open it would remain the same and if more were open it drop by 5%. After a few months of people ignoring this prices finally reached hurtfull levels and a few slots would open upp. This system however was aparently not to their liking as slots could still be blocked for the most part. At this point POSes were in the game and could house slots, by allowing POSes in both low and highsec CCP made available a huge number of potential slots, at present the idea is that if you wish to have faster access to research, set upp a POS with some lab slots. At the same time they introduced the change to station slots removing the problematic possibility to block slots by putting in a line. Thus if you really want easy access to slots then set upp a small POS or contact one of the new and very admiarable corps that set upp and run POSes in order to rent out slots. The one thing I really think CCP should do is to allow POS owners to open thir POS slots to the open market with a price attached.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.02 07:51:00 - [8] The available amount does not cover the demand, there is no reason for these queues except of course to make people leave eve because they never got to try out the research bit. As the amount of players grow so will the queues what when it is not just 30 days but 60, 100 ,300 then what this whole problem could so easily go away by just creating more slots
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:17:00 - [9] Originally by: Amarria Black Or... you just pay us to use our slots. Or Ricdic. But preferably us. I suppose you mean using research slots in hi-sec POS labs. It is a good solution only if high sec research slots can be rented and the research done by the player renting them. As things stand today it will not work. The only system is to give the BPO to the research corporation and set a collateral so high that the researcher isn't tempted to keep the BPO. Almost acceptable with T1 BPO, totally inacceptable with T2 BPO.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Falbala It has always been a problem. Clearly, people take slots to prevent others to research anything. I saw a BPC researched to level 576 the other day, when you think 20 for a ship and 100 for ammo is more than enough. Today there is a reason for so high research levels. My impression is that invented BPC get a bonus in ME/PE of 1:100 (what I mean is the BPC has a material efficency of 100, the invented BPC has a material efficency of -3 instead of -4). So while for normal T1 building there is no return, for invention of T2 items that kind of ME and Pe is very important.
Adonis 4174	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:25:00 - [11] It does seem like ME is the only type of slot that is constantly in use. In-universe this would make some PE slots seem wasteful and get them repurposed by the owner to be usable for ME instead. That said I kinda like having to play cat and mouse in rat-infested systems to get my blueprints to a station without long queues (because nobody else is dumb enough to take a blueprint to that system) ----- I'll be in my pod
RaTTuS BIG	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:33:00 - [12] Originally by: Venkul Mul Today there is a reason for so high research levels. My impression is that invented BPC get a bonus in ME/PE of 1:100 (what I mean is the BPC has a material efficency of 100, the invented BPC has a material efficency of -3 instead of -4). So while for normal T1 building there is no return, for invention of T2 items that kind of ME and Pe is very important. Invention does not work like that - the ME level does not affect the outcome. only the data sheets you use. weather this will change is another matter -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve & RaTTuS Home
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:34:00 - [13] Originally by: Amarria Black Or... you just pay us to use our slots. Or Ricdic. But preferably us. I like that Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Max Tesla No no no and no There are lines everywhere and you can not trust anyone with anything OOOOO please give us all your money and after you are done researching we will take that awful bpo off your hands Increase the number of research slots so that everyone can do research within a normal amount of time Check out our link mate. We provide research slots in empire, and we never touch your bpo. You (or an alt corp you create) join the Zzz Alliance, set up your own corp hangar in an NPC station, and go nuts researching whatever you want. Seriously there is zero security risk as none of your assets are ever touched by anyone outside your corporation. There is no risk whatsoever. Now is a great time to join the Zzz Alliance as we are celebrating 1 year of service to the Eve Community with a week of free research to all customers. Pop me an evemail in game if you have any queries whatsoever, I look forward to proving to you that empire research slots do not need increasing whatsoever Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:46:00 - [15] Originally by: Max Tesla The available amount does not cover the demand, there is no reason for these queues except of course to make people leave eve because they never got to try out the research bit. As the amount of players grow so will the queues what when it is not just 30 days but 60, 100 ,300 then what this whole problem could so easily go away by just creating more slots I disagree with this statement. The POS's that people offer provide unlimited capacity to the market. Frankly, I would rather see all manufacturing/researching opened to the public, and all NPC ones shut down. In line with this, it would be essential to lower the fee's of empire POS's in some way, as POS research is more expensive than NPC, and it isn't a matter of price gouging, it truly is expensive to provide the service. As an example, the C-R-A corporation (the one that holds all the towers) has 7 large towers and pays on average 1.2-1.5 billion isk per month in fuel costs plus approximately 400m per month in alliance and office fees. That's not even counting the 23b or so capital required to provide the venture in the first place, which has to be paid back over time. But back on topic, once the general population see that many POS owners provide this service risk free, you will also find that the supply is unlimited, it's just a matter of seeing the bigger picture. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
IAeon HMS Indefatigable New Eden Research	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:47:00 - [16] Edited by: IAeon on 02/09/2007 08:47:09 It would not hurt, if we got a few more copy slots either.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.02 08:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Venkul Mul As things stand today it will not work. The only system is to give the BPO to the research corporation and set a collateral so high that the researcher isn't tempted to keep the BPO. Not at all, as Alliance research can be done without me even knowing what bpo's you have, and your bpo's always sitting in your own corporate hangar in an NPC station. You never even need to see my POS to do your research. Quote: Almost acceptable with T1 BPO, totally inacceptable with T2 BPO. This part I agree with, as T2 bpo's require materials to research, which doesn't work via the Alliance tab so does focus on trust. Short of the cheaper bpo's, I personally recommend anyone get their own small pos set up for t2 research and manufacturing, rather than using a service such as mine. Having said that, I generally have a good 20-30b of customer's bpos in my corporate hangar doing research and jobs on it, and don't think I have paid collateral in a good 10 months or even been asked too Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.02 09:31:00 - [18] Edited by: Kazuo Ishiguro on 02/09/2007 09:32:21 Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Amarria Black Or... you just pay us to use our slots. Or Ricdic. But preferably us. I like that Seconded Copying & invention are also possible, but under the present system a degree of trust is required. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Falbala Gallente Les Enfants de Gaia	Posted - 2007.09.02 10:09:00 - [19] Using the help of a research alliance is certainly the best solution. The problem is some people want to control their regional market so they rent all offices, all laboratories and all factories, if that doesn't cost them too much. It's like that since day 1 of EVE.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.02 11:08:00 - [20] didums. I wait er 0 minutes for my slots. Aren't 0.0 outposts groovy. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.02 16:16:00 - [21] non public research is 0.75 anyways why wouldnt you use it? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.09.02 16:32:00 - [22] I'd rather like the ability to make "private" slots public (remote only, so you'd need scientific networking L1). Also, the ability to set a price for the slots, and more important, ability to set custom max durations for research AND queue lengths on private "publicized" slots you own. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.02 16:34:00 - [23] for once I agree with akita... makes me feel so dirty Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums: Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.02 16:41:00 - [24] Originally by: Akita T I'd rather like the ability to make "private" slots public (remote only, so you'd need scientific networking L1). Also, the ability to set a price for the slots, and more important, ability to set custom max durations for research AND queue lengths on private "publicized" slots you own. To the first part I agree. To the second part, I don't really see it being a necessity, as player provided lab slots are infinite, in that they can always be increased to fill demand. Anyone stupid enough to try and manipulate an infinite supply will go broke real quick. Anyway, if someone wants to throw a 10 year bpo into one of my slots, it will cost them 100's of millions of isk, so I can easily afford to place another one to fill the gap he took. So I can't see that being a problem on private publicised slots. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Tamia Clant New Dawn Corp New Eden Research	Posted - 2007.09.02 16:52:00 - [25] Need more ME slots? Follow the link on my sig! Looking for queue-free research slots? Click here!
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.09.02 18:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Max Tesla CCP really needs to increase the number of Material research slots Today there is at least a 30 day waiting period ( I know somewhere on some place there might be less) Eve gets more and more players each day but the slots do not grow so what is the plan here just let the queue grow and grow When eve has 1 million players what then? Same number of slots? And when there are 10 million same number as well? I see no reason for not increasing it except of course it somehow might give lag but I doubt it Should it not be open for all, research already takes long and now we have to wait even longer? As I see it, it would even make people leave eve since because of the insane long queues less people would be able to explore that part of eve and that is one thing less keeping them in game Research takes long there is no reason for the insane long queues It is like housing more and more people need a house but few new houses are created only when an alliance decides to build something but that hardly covers the demand And why should only people part of that alliance get to research Alliance members can use normal research slots as well to their alliance slots but people who do not want to be part of an alliance get nothing Just increase the number of slots to 200 per each station. What would be the problem will the world end? Researching already takes long time there is no need for these long queues I got tired of aiting for empire reaseach slots, so iput up po, now I don't have to wait at all
Audri Fisher Caldari VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2007.09.02 18:12:00 - [27] Originally by: Falbala It has always been a problem. Clearly, people take slots to prevent others to research anything. I saw a BPC researched to level 576 the other day, when you think 20 for a ship and 100 for ammo is more than enough. There are many ways to fix this. Put a research limit. Above a certain number the research is over. Increase the price of material research. Level 1 1000 isk, Level 2 4000 isk, level 3 16000 and so on, Increase the price of lab rental when all are busy as it is done for offices. I think it was working this way 2 years ago I don't know why it changed. Specialize slots. Make some labs for ship research, some for modules, some for ammos and so on. This way someone cannot buy a civilan shield booster BPO and prevent others to research ships ME. Any of this would require that CCP wants to fix the problem of course. On a side note I don't think it has anything to see with research alliances, it always been like that, even before you could build research facilities. 5 is enough for ammo tbfh
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.02 18:26:00 - [28] Many have spent billions of ISK setting up POSs to get around this restriction. Making more public ones available would be a nasty nerf to those players. In the mean time there is a very good market now for BPCs that are already well trained. Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.09.02 20:21:00 - [29] Edited by: Sessho Seki on 02/09/2007 20:22:35 As per usual, it's 1 step forward, and 2 steps back with the progression of EVE. In the beginning, there were not enough slots, and the people were unhappy. They jumped on CCP's case about it, at first CCP did nothing and let the problem spiral out of control and only mitigated the problem with increasing rents which in turn only led to higher reselling prices and continuing to magnify the problem. While it took seeming forever to get results, CCP finally did the right thing and just put more slots into the game, which actually solved the problem! But having a problem solved is unacceptable, so CCP went out of their way to botch up the system they had just gotten to a decent state by instituting the 'queue system', which is not only undoing all the success that had been achieved before, but then turns around and makes the problem just that much worse by constraining the one thing that helped to fix the problem, volume of available slots. It doesn't help the game to have the developers going out of their way to make it worse. As for POS facilities, if anything, CCP should instate considerable bonuses to effectiveness (perhaps upwards of 25-50%) of them, but the public alternatives shouldn't be castrated in favor of POS owners.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.03 07:20:00 - [30] Increase the number of Material Research slots
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2007.09.03 08:06:00 - [31] Edited by: Akita T on 03/09/2007 08:07:30 Originally by: Max Tesla Increase the number of Material Research slots After the whole thread full of discussions as to why simply increasing the slots would break more as it would fix, and proposing alternatives that would make research slots available but via players... here you go with a random bump that makes you sound like a major moron for disregarding it all. You would have been better off with a simple "bump" post. _ Complaint vs whine \| Char creation guide \| Stacknerfs explained
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.09.03 19:14:00 - [32] Edited by: Sessho Seki on 03/09/2007 19:18:06 Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 03/09/2007 08:07:30 Originally by: Max Tesla Increase the number of Material Research slots After the whole thread full of discussions as to why simply increasing the slots would break more as it would fix, and proposing alternatives that would make research slots available but via players... here you go with a random bump that makes you sound like a major moron for disregarding it all. You would have been better off with a simple "bump" post. And yet, he is accurate to the solution... Before the queue system, there were enough slots, things worked, and the system was starting to make sense... CCP can't have any of that, and thus 'fixed' the situation in typical CCP fashion. Like I already said, in the beginning there were too few slots, eventually CCP came around, admitted there was indeed a problem, and then after a few asinine attempts to solve the problem they finally only succeeded when they increased the number of slots. Odd as it may seem, if there aren't enough slots available, providing more slots helps or even solves the problem outright (supply and demand curves meet at equilibrium again!). CCP however was not content with a system that finally worked, so in due course of human events history repeated itself and we're back to 'Castor' days of yore. Again, CCP has saddled the game with too few lots knowing full well the demand on those slots is now multiple times as bad as it ever was then due to a much larger population now. Sure it should be motivation to setup a POS for some, however the practicalities of this are highly suspect for a great many people. Simple solutions are that POS facilities should be considerably better than their 'public' alternatives, however public facilities should be much more common and indeed the number of slots needs a dramatic increase just as has been done before the queue system was forced upon the community. For a system that's so new, it certainly has a lot of old problems that used to be fixed. I guess in this instance, CCP 'fixed' the game in the sense that 'getting fixed' implies castration... There's no doubt the pitch of the game's voice has gotten higher, let's just hope that's the screams for change toward the better rather than the unthinkable subtraction of important components...
Goodlookin Gus Gallente Viking Research and Production space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.09.03 19:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Max Tesla CCP really needs to increase the number of Material research slots Today there is at least a 30 day waiting period ( I know somewhere on some place there might be less) Eve gets more and more players each day but the slots do not grow so what is the plan here just let the queue grow and grow When eve has 1 million players what then? Same number of slots? And when there are 10 million same number as well? I see no reason for not increasing it except of course it somehow might give lag but I doubt it Should it not be open for all, research already takes long and now we have to wait even longer? As I see it, it would even make people leave eve since because of the insane long queues less people would be able to explore that part of eve and that is one thing less keeping them in game Research takes long there is no reason for the insane long queues It is like housing more and more people need a house but few new houses are created only when an alliance decides to build something but that hardly covers the demand And why should only people part of that alliance get to research Alliance members can use normal research slots as well to their alliance slots but people who do not want to be part of an alliance get nothing Just increase the number of slots to 200 per each station. What would be the problem will the world end? Researching already takes long time there is no need for these long queues no this is why you have players like me. doing rsearch service. i would more like the devs to go the other way. removing em :) then open up for pos labs to be open to puplic. no npc slots what so ever. only high sec poses :) empire research and bpc sales High sec research service avalible. join channel viking research for more info
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.03 20:38:00 - [34] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 03/09/2007 20:44:14 Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Venkul Mul As things stand today it will not work. The only system is to give the BPO to the research corporation and set a collateral so high that the researcher isn't tempted to keep the BPO. Not at all, as Alliance research can be done without me even knowing what bpo's you have, and your bpo's always sitting in your own corporate hangar in an NPC station. You never even need to see my POS to do your research. Quote: Almost acceptable with T1 BPO, totally inacceptable with T2 BPO. This part I agree with, as T2 bpo's require materials to research, which doesn't work via the Alliance tab so does focus on trust. Short of the cheaper bpo's, I personally recommend anyone get their own small pos set up for t2 research and manufacturing, rather than using a service such as mine. Having said that, I generally have a good 20-30b of customer's bpos in my corporate hangar doing research and jobs on it, and don't think I have paid collateral in a good 10 months or even been asked too OK, last try with alliance POS was a failure, but apparently my colleagues owning the POS hadn't set it right. I like much more my own hi-sec POS even if fueling it alone is a bit a core. I thought it was disabled after a this thread alliance copy slot disabled as the original statement by Chronotis was that labs use for the alliance members was disabled, but re-reading it I noticed that it was corrected and only copy slot have been disabled for the alliance members not owning the POS (and as you point, the other function requiring access to the lab and not only to a NPC station).
Nicholai Pestot Gallente Havoc Inc	Posted - 2007.09.03 20:49:00 - [35] Want fast research? Get off your ass and setup a POS. Don't want to do that?Put up with a long wait. Why is it that whenever anything in this game requires a little effort there is always someone that rather than seeing it as a challenge to overcome, comes on the forums and whines to get it changed?
000Hunter000 Gallente Magners Marauders	Posted - 2007.09.03 21:21:00 - [36] Advertising time!!! Want to rent a research slot? Send me an evemail, i may know someone who will do u a nice deal. CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!! Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
Empire marketslave	Posted - 2007.09.03 21:46:00 - [37] as said before its people who think that they need ME >500 on everything . When they dont realize that the cost to research it to that point isn't worty the 5 tritanium you will save
Arushia Nova Labs Empire Research	Posted - 2007.09.03 22:30:00 - [38] I can't believe my alliance hasn't got an ad in this thread yet. See my sig. Empire Research -- Research Anywhere
Kara Rhane Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.	Posted - 2007.09.03 22:40:00 - [39] Trust is a major issue in this game. The dev's have stated that they like it when people spy and sabotage each other and we've seen hundreds of examples of it. With that said, many people that have gotten burned have switched from trusting anyone to just asking for in-game fixes. The problem you state (wanting more ME slots) is the EXACT reason we (my corp) exists. We all dabbled in the manufacturing side of the game and we couldn't get anything researched for months on end. So we sat down one day and figured out how to overcome the problem. We put up our own POS with 6 labs. We each got 2 labs and went crazy for a good month. Next thing you know we all had a sizable set of the BPOs we wanted researched and didn't need the POS anymore. Bam. The idea for a Service comes into our heads. At the time when we setup our service there were exactly 3 others running. Riddic, Jess Ica and one other that has I think closed it's doors. The sheer market need for our POS labs and research services made us figure out a system to offer our services to the EVE community through the forums. We're approaching our one year anniversary (just like Riddic and Jess Ica already have) and we have 6 entire pages of customers that have replied with (Trust worthy seller, would use again, have trusted with my prints, etc. etc) That reputation isn't something you can simply buy. It's one of the few things in EVE that can't be bought, it takes a long time to craft and you have to treat people equally. CCP enables this environment because players don't have the options to get more slots. They other have to take billions to setup their own POS (2.2 billion for medium and 6 labs + fuel) or they can put a few bits of trust into some of the people that have tried very hard to build a trust worthy reputation to be handed prints with a short turn around time. Not to knock you or your researching efforts Max, but unless you actually have a t2 BPO is there really anything you'd have that is worth billions upon billions? Riddics alliance solves that, make a corp (about 10 mill), get a character trained up to Metallurgy 5, Research 5 and Science 5 with Lab 5 and adv lab 4 takes about 45 days start to finish if you put a few +3's into her head (about 125 mill for skills and implants) and then you only have to pay for an alliance fee per month and/or an lab charge. (around 10 to 40 mill per month depending upon the lab costs per hour) If none of that works, and you can't trust anyone with a long rep (riddic, Jess, myself, etc.) then you might want to other just swallow the wait times or realize that this is a MMO "Massive Multiplayer online game. I'm not trying to knock you with this part, but one of the things I truly enjoy about EVE is that I have been able to talk to people with unique corps and organizations (yes, riddic, jess, some corps that offer piles of BPC deals, etc. etc) Instead of clicking through a few menus and dealing with an NPC and their costs that can't possibly change, I've dealt with players that are willing to give advice, take payments for services at hard times, just tell a joke and in short interact with someone that is having the same amount of fun dealing in a virtual commodity, in a game and having a fun time doing it. That means something, it adds to EVE's experience and I think players that can get the capital together as well as the organization to put up corps or entire researching alliances add to the rich background that this game gives us every time we log in. Maybe you are more for "I want this quick and done and don't have to deal with anyone" A lot of us are of the mind "It's kinda fun to see if I can haggle', 'figure this out', or 'I wonder if I could get some people together to make this work....' There are alot of research services these days, alot of them are building their reps. Try em out, it's a game, have some fun with it ***** Rhane's Research and Development LabsÖ Click to search our Ammo's, Missiles, and Drone BPO sets.
Kara Rhane Gallente Rhane's Research and Development Labs.	Posted - 2007.09.03 23:23:00 - [40] NPC idea for dev'sÖ NPC corporations expansions Note: I offered a solution to max in the first post I made, I figured I'd address the ingame issue that might be helpful and hopefully some nice dev will read and say 'Hrm, that's not such a bad idea, wonder if we could toss that around at the water cooler discussions.' Anyway, on to the meat. The EVE universe is getting older, the game is in it's 4th year. In all this time, we've seen absolutely zero expansion in terms of NPC corps. In 4 years (from an ingame stand point) they've been making billions if not trillions of ISK per year. Yet, in all that time, we haven't see a single new station deployed around empire to take advantage of that income. Yes, we have to assume like most mega corps in the world that they only get to keep 4% to 17% of their income after expenses. But with that much income and an obvious need, doesn't it seem that the NPC corps like Duval Labs and such would have deployed a few more research capable stations to increase their income stream even further? I'm not saying 3 or 4 stations per month, but 1 or 2 every quarter doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility as the population gets bigger and bigger. Look at 0.0 in the last 90 days, we've seen over 28 new outposts put up according to outpost alert and the EVE maps. That's a serious increase in 0.0 commerce. Why shouldn't empire expand as well. And before people say "we don't need low sec turning into empire systems and ruining it." I want to make clear I mean only further expansion in already established systems. After all, we have dozens of 0.5 to 1.0 systems with no stations in them. As well as dozens or hundreds with only a single station in them. That's room for growth, I know the NPC's don't follow any sort of life like behavior when it comes to the in game economy. But this could be a small start that I think would make alot of people happy. Suggestion 2 Player Corp Public dealing As a few other players have mentioned, the ability for a corp to anchor a POS, as well open the labs upon it to the general market could be a big step in taking care of the 'problem' that ME slots and researching currently has. Some form of resriction could be have to be met to make sure players aren't harmed badly for a form of trust that their placing in the player corps. For example, a player corp opens a POS with labs, makes them 'public' after setting the current fees they want to charge and then those slots appear on the 'public' tab when players search for slots. For a player POS to be allowed to do this I this certain conditions might have to be met. For example, paying a few hundred mill to an 'insurance' company so that if the players take down their POS during the time that the slots are rented not only will the player who was renting the slot(s) have their ISK refunded, but they will recieve an early termination fee. This would have to be balanced so we don't see players attacking corps to blow up POS's to get early termination fees. The Player(s) that put up these 'public' POS's would then get access to a module that would let their POS maybe run for a few extra days to make sure that they won't go offline. Or maybe that fee to the transfer/insurance NPC company would guarentee fueling of the POS, yet at ruinous fuel rates so players actually make their own fuel arrangements. It's a thought that could be expanded upon. And I hope they cause some (friendly) discussion. ***** Rhane's Research and Development LabsÖ Click to search our Ammo's, Missiles, and Drone BPO sets.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:15:00 - [41] no everything is working fine if you want to make a serious difference go on a campaign teaching people about the levels of me and pe and why most items are useless to go above 30 most ammo useless to go above about 100 and why some are useless to have more than 10 and even 1 ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.05 10:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Sessho Seki Edited by: Sessho Seki on 02/09/2007 20:22:35 It doesn't help the game to have the developers going out of their way to make it worse. Indeed
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.08 09:43:00 - [43] Do it now!
Wreck Doer	Posted - 2007.09.09 09:09:00 - [44] Edited by: Wreck Doer on 09/09/2007 09:09:02
Researching	Posted - 2007.09.09 10:08:00 - [45] Our alliance Empire Research offers the same service as Ricdic, only that we are, huh, cooler than him. Yeah, that's it
Buyerr	Posted - 2007.09.09 10:14:00 - [46] just increase them so each person always have a slot free. or let each person have X slots and they can rent them out for X isk. or something. it is so stupid to give people monopole on something like this :S
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.09 12:25:00 - [47] no no Originally by: Buyerr just increase them so each person always have a slot free. or let each person have X slots and they can rent them out for X isk. or something. it is so stupid to give people monopole on something like this :S and no ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Shady Dave	Posted - 2007.09.09 14:35:00 - [48] Ok. As other have said stop whining and look into how to resolve the issue. 1. Is to use the services of others already discussed. 2. Is to put up your own tower. This is not hard and doesnt have to cost you billions. A small tower with one lab will only cost you 40mil/ month to fuel if you dont ice mine yourself. You can buy a Small tower, lab and corporate hanger for about 200 mil. So all in all first month is 240 mil. Most important of all research on these forums on how to do it in the. Have a look at this linky.... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=179069 Shady Dave
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.09 14:38:00 - [49] how dare these vicious n00bs try and cut into the profits of the high sec research corps! BAN THEM! I'm not being sarcastic this time, I really think this is a non-issue and they have plenty of options 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.09 14:56:00 - [50] Originally by: Tortun Nahme how dare these vicious n00bs try and cut into the profits of the high sec research corps! BAN THEM! I'm not being sarcastic this time, I really think this is a non-issue and they have plenty of options Indeed.. Now if there were no options for ME research besides the maxed out public slots I'd say add some more but as others have stated the playerbase has already made a very lucrative alternative to public slots for both them and the researcher.. ^^ Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Rhaegor Stormborn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.09.09 16:32:00 - [51] Agreed. These need to be slightly increased as the number of players has increased so much lately that wait times are out of control. It is hard enough for newer players to enter and compete in the production market without having to wait over 2 months for a research slot to become available. Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.09 16:58:00 - [52] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Agreed. These need to be slightly increased as the number of players has increased so much lately that wait times are out of control. It is hard enough for newer players to enter and compete in the production market without having to wait over 2 months for a research slot to become available. The problem with simply adding more slots without some sort of underlaying change to the game related mechanics of using/abusing them is that those new slots will be targeted and filled with useless bpos just like they are now.. We don't need more slots just a less grief friendly implimentation of them.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.09 17:13:00 - [53] Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn Agreed. It is hard enough for newer players to enter and compete in the production market without having to wait over 2 months for a research slot to become available. What's so hard about joining a research alliance and starting your research within 24 hours of submitting an application? The only people that use public slots, are those in no rush to get their prints researched. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.09 21:02:00 - [54] There are plenty of ME slots in low sec and 0.0. Not to mention you have the ability to use high sec POS labs. "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein A blog of truth (not mine)
Giatshi	Posted - 2007.09.09 22:02:00 - [55] more slots plz
Rollio Polleaous 20th Legion	Posted - 2007.09.09 22:24:00 - [56] So maybe I missed it but wasn't the solution to this the ever increasing cost for lab slots in a station if all slots are taken? Maybe it's time to increase the rate at which the costs climb.
Natalia Fachiri Minmatar Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in	Posted - 2007.09.10 00:27:00 - [57] if there is a player made sollution to a problem, why insist on a NPC sollution? Set up your own POS, or enlist the help of a research alliance. It is not hard. Adding more slots would be a temporary sollution at best. First, the system as it stands now would ensure that these slots are filled up immediately. While overall wait times might lower somewhat, they would still be too high (at 30 days wait time, doubling the slots would still mean 15 days wait time as the absolute best case scenario). And as more players enter the game, times increase again. Research alliances on the other hand can provide as much service as the community needs at any given time. The only thing that needs to be added is a more easy way to get to the slots. A slot market of some sort would be perfect.
Wyehr Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.10 01:27:00 - [58] I would be happy if you could set fees on POS lab slots, set them to public, and have them actually be public. Public = no corp roles needed and from your personal hangar. For extra fun, CCP could disallow jobs that last longer than the current fuel levels, and also lock fuel at the minimum levels needed to finish the already installed jobs. But that isn't even needed. Just have the lab refund the fees and cancel the jobs if it ever goes offline. R i s e killboard admin.
Rhaegor Stormborn Pestilent Industries Amalgamated	Posted - 2007.09.10 01:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Wyehr I would be happy if you could set fees on POS lab slots, set them to public, and have them actually be public. This would be the optimal solution. Rhaegor Stormborn Fleet Admiral - Pestilent Industries Amalgamated [PIA] Recruitment Thread
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.09.10 01:49:00 - [60] 110% agreed with OP, and in addition CCP should use some sort of formula that at DT or patch time it checks and for every certain number of characters added since the last update (say 20,000) it adds another slot of each lab and production type to all the stations. All the systems really doing right now is penalizing newer players who didnt get in on the ground floor on BPO research. Lab poses are all good and well, and perhaps they could have their research time reduced significantly to keep them useful, but they shouldnt be the only viable option since generally the only ones who have the money and manpower to keep one going are--you guessed it--older players who already did their research long ago. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Aldaerus School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.10 02:20:00 - [61] Ummm ... if you don't want to wait 20-30 days for a ME slot, head out to 0.0 and find a NPC station with no wait. I've been doing research for over a year. I'm based in empire space (Sobaseki). I've completed over 150 BPOs. I travel back and forth to my 0.0 NPC station to pickup and deliver BPOs. I've lost a couple loads to pirates, about 6 BPOs out of 150+. That's a loss rate of less than 4%. Eventually, I set-up a jump-clone to get to the 0.0 NPC station when the routes are clogged with nasties. It all works great and adds thrills and excitement ... which I think is the entire point of a game. You want safe and comfy, then you wait 30+ days. You want no wait, then you need to take some risk. That sounds very reasonable to me. Heck, it even kinda sounds like a game.
Del Narveux Dukes of Hazard	Posted - 2007.09.10 02:27:00 - [62] Even .0 stations are starting to get longer and longer wait times now. Its entirely a problem of a resource (slots) that hasnt been scaled along with increasing player population. In the past theyve doubled slots a couple times to deal with this, methinks the time has come again but lets make a formula of it so it scales with player pop rather than occasionally shoots up on dev intervention. _________________ [SAK] Alumnus--And Proud Of It! -- aka Cpt Bogus Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? Originally by: Wrangler Well, at least we have forum PvP..
Aldaerus School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.10 04:03:00 - [63] Edited by: Aldaerus on 10/09/2007 04:04:01 Do you even use 0.0 NPC research slots? In the 1.5 years I've been using them, I've rarely had to wait. I've not had to wait for the last 2 months. It hardly seems to be getting worse, as a matter of fact, it seems to be getting better. There are many 0.0 NPC research slots available right now. If you don't want to wait, go find one and use it.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2007.09.10 05:03:00 - [64] Originally by: Del Narveux Even .0 stations are starting to get longer and longer wait times now. Its entirely a problem of a resource (slots) that hasnt been scaled along with increasing player population. In the past theyve doubled slots a couple times to deal with this, methinks the time has come again but lets make a formula of it so it scales with player pop rather than occasionally shoots up on dev intervention. POS labs are almost infinitely scalable, limited only by the number of moons in the galaxy. And that's easily over 100,000 moons. The universe is getting crowded, this is in some ways intentional, any single addition would not be enough, and scaling with pod pilot population just doesn't feel quite right. Max, get a POS or hire the use of one off of someone else. Same as we did, it's not that hard for a medium sized corporation. Or, you can take your prints to lower security space, as I did before I had access to POS labs. -------------------------------------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.10 16:40:00 - [65] Wow, lots of people that live in fantasy land The problem is that less and less people will be able to do research and miss the whole thing because the waiting in normal slots is insane so most people will just quit earlier when indeed they could have played longer if only they would have been able to do research Increase the number of slots
MrTripps Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.10 17:54:00 - [66] Originally by: Max Tesla The problem is that less and less people will be able to do research and miss the whole thing Good. More profit for those that use their brain to get what they want instead of whining on the forums. Certainty of death...small chance of success...what are we waiting for? - Gimli
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.10 17:58:00 - [67] I support adding additional manufacturing and research slots. In lowsec.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.11 15:34:00 - [68] Increase the number of Material Research slots
DeODokktor Dark Templars The Fonz Presidium	Posted - 2007.09.11 15:44:00 - [69] I think it's time to de-crease the number of NPC research/production slots.. They are dirt cheap!.. The price needs to go up 10* what it is.. As for "giving your bpo away" for it to be research'd, dont be silly, if you join an empire lab alliance then you can rent slots.. I am sorry but my corp alone has something like 60 me slots and a lot of times 0 are used. There's TONS of moons left, and TONS of slots left for players to make.. A better question would be "Why" does there need to be any more tech1 bpo's even research'd at this point (other than new additions to the game).. Sorry but there's sooooooo many idle bpo's out there that mayb people should start asking to buy used bpo's that have research!
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.11 16:48:00 - [70] there are player made services for research get used to multiplayer in an mmo ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Wyehr Shadow Of The Light R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.11 18:01:00 - [71] Originally by: Aldaerus Edited by: Aldaerus on 10/09/2007 04:04:01 Do you even use 0.0 NPC research slots? In the 1.5 years I've been using them, I've rarely had to wait. I've not had to wait for the last 2 months. It hardly seems to be getting worse, as a matter of fact, it seems to be getting better. There are many 0.0 NPC research slots available right now. If you don't want to wait, go find one and use it. Where? I found a lowsec station with no waiting close to a year ago. Then some idiot named the region in a thread much like this one and they were filled to 35 days or more within a week. R i s e killboard admin.
TrulyKosh Solo for UNCLE Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.11 18:15:00 - [72] Originally by: Sessho Seki As for POS facilities, if anything, CCP should instate considerable bonuses to effectiveness (perhaps upwards of 25-50%) of them, but the public alternatives shouldn't be castrated in favor of POS owners. and 25% they already have, yet people like you insist on using public slots? I only invest in businesses that even a fool can run. Because some day a fool will. (Warren Buffett)
Cynical Attitude	Posted - 2007.09.11 19:39:00 - [73] Who is actually hurt by the current situation? There are clearly large and vocal vested interests in favour of maintaining the status quo - not only POS-research corps but also those with researched BPOs, who are quite happy to see large barriers to market entry. Those who are serious about getting into manufacturing will either eat the 30-day wait, look around for a shorter waiting time, use the services of a POS-research corp or even build their own POS. Those who are hurt are those who want to "try out" manufacturing - it is, after all, part of Eve, and should, in principle, be accessible to all players. However, they don't have highly trained PE, can't find the specific researched BPC that they want on the contract market (or don't even look) and thus can't make a profit from it (or don't bother to crunch the numbers - there are actually many items which you can profitably manufacture and sell in some areas with next to no PE and an unresearched BP). They're too scared of low sec to go hunting around for a shorter research queue. They think that manufacturing should be as easy as, ooh, I don't know, buying a hammer and walking up to a forge. Eve is not WOW. There is not only a steep learning curve, there are also large barriers to entry into some areas of the game. Any noob can set up a guild in WOW. A noob corp in Eve will get eaten alive. Any noob can do crafting in WOW. In Eve, manufacturing is a complex business, and if availability of ME research slots is such a huge barrier to your starting in manufacturing, you're not putting enough effort into it, you're not going to get it right and you should be be thankful that you can't get into it because you will make a hell of a mess of it and lose alot of money. Of course, you could argue that Eve would benefit from making certain activities, manufacturing included, more accessible to newer players, but that's a whole other argument.
SiJira	Posted - 2007.09.11 23:36:00 - [74] there are lots of research services maybe people dont realize that the bpo never leaves a high sec station of your choosing and in your possession the entire time? ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.13 13:15:00 - [75] Increase the number of Material Research slots
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.09.15 18:32:00 - [76] Doh. Max Tesla, if you were not hiding on a NPC corp for fear of wardecks, then you could make a corp, put up a POS and put up your own research labs for you and for any friends you let into your corp. He wants to eat the cake and keep it too. That's why CCP should not do what he is saying. It would make the game less rewarding for people with iniciative and promote lazy players who don't really like the multiplayer part of MMORPGs.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.15 18:39:00 - [77] Originally by: SiJira there are lots of research services maybe people dont realize that the bpo never leaves a high sec station of your choosing and in your possession the entire time? Only if you're doing the job remotely, of course. The BPO disappears from your corp hangar for the duration of the job, but even if the lab is destroyed you get it back. And if you're doing the research at a POS belonging to another corp in your alliance, the owners can't even tell what sort of blueprint it is. My research services Spreadsheets: Top speed calculation - Halo Implant stats
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:39:00 - [78] Edited by: Sessho Seki on 15/09/2007 20:41:02 Fixed the errant 'Edit' command TrulyKosh didn't know how to use properly which italicized the entire post Originally by:* TrulyKosh Originally by: Sessho Seki As for POS facilities, if anything, CCP should instate considerable bonuses to effectiveness (perhaps upwards of 25-50%) of them, but the public alternatives shouldn't be castrated in favor of POS owners. and 25% they already have, yet people like you insist on using public slots? Reading comprehension FTW! Yes indeed, because you see much like PvP, mining, going where every you like when you like, and so on CCP does NOT force you to do anything you don't wish to do, and the same should hold true universally. Players WANT to use public slots, however CCP has gone to great lengths to completely castrate what they had already fixed before. CCP needs to come to terms yet again with the fact that the initially supplied resources are entirely inadequate, especially in the light that the game population is as large as ever, and there is one simple and effective solution, add more slots.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:47:00 - [79] Originally by: Sessho Seki and there is one simple and effective solution, add more slots. Only to see them filled to capacity and rejammed up by research greifers with shuttle bpos within days.. Moar slots is not the answer.. The underlying system of using public slots needs a rework.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Lady Beauvoir Slutty Witches	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:05:00 - [80] Originally by: Sessho Seki Yes indeed, because you see much like PvP, mining, going where every you like when you like, and so on CCP does NOT force you to do anything you don't wish to do, and the same should hold true universally. Players WANT to use public slots, however CCP has gone to great lengths to completely castrate what they had already fixed before. CCP needs to come to terms yet again with the fact that the initially supplied resources are entirely inadequate, especially in the light that the game population is as large as ever, and there is one simple and effective solution, add more slots. See, CCP does not force you to do anything you don't wish to do. But if you wish to do something, you need to do it on EVE's own terms. You cannot mine arkonor in Perimeter. You cannot PVP freely in 0.5+ sec without a wardec. You cannot sell your products without competing with other traders. You cannot do your research without fighting for the lab space with other researchers. And so on. If you wish to take the other route, set up a POS and do your research there. Or use research services. Or use a POS setup service to make you a corp with good standings to set your POS up. And so on. The scarcer the resources become, the better - it forces players to interact and make long-term plans. There is no need whatsoever to increase public research slots. "Le coeur a ses raisons que la raison ne connaet point." -Blaise Pascal, PensTes, 4, 277
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:47:00 - [81] Originally by: Lady Beauvoir If you wish to take the other route, set up a POS and do your research there. He can't do that because is he is at an NPC corp Originally by: Lady Beauvoir Or use research services. Idem. Originally by: Lady Beauvoir Or use a POS setup service to make you a corp with good standings to set your POS up. And so on. Idem. In other words, he can't set up his own labs because he has decided to stay at a NPC corp, so he whines on forums for CCP to give him the benefits of near infinite lab slots without the risks from being at a player corp to get them
Fkn Arson Ionic Defender Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.16 00:15:00 - [82] Shameless post for Ricdic and his Alliance, have had no problems and great success fulfilling all my research needs! Go Ricdic!
Benvie	Posted - 2007.09.16 01:13:00 - [83] Step 1.) Allow Invention/Copying/Tech 2 BPO researching to be done from a distance by allowing the materials to be inputted and outputted at the station you do the job at with Scientific Networking. Step 2.) Create new types of labs (expensive) that are public accessible. Each lab would be like NPC ones in that it specializes in one type of job (ME, PE, Invention, Copying). Step 3.) Delete all NPC research facilities. Doing this would solve the problem AND enrich the game by putting another aspect completely in player hands.
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.09.16 08:02:00 - [84] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: Sessho Seki and there is one simple and effective solution, add more slots. Only to see them filled to capacity and rejammed up by research greifers with shuttle bpos within days.. Moar slots is not the answer.. The underlying system of using public slots needs a rework.. Actually, more slots IS the answer as already proven in the past before the Queue system replaced the static-slot system. Initially there was the identical problem as there is now, simply too few slots regardless of the projects placed in them, prices soared and a market in 'research slot re-sale' emerged and CCP's first plan was to make slot-rent go up the longer you held the slot and theoretically people would then hold slots for less time, the only problem is that it didn't work and prices only climbed to ridiculous levels as a result. Players were indeed forced to play by "EVE rules" for quite some time, however CCP was finally backed into a corner by the angry mob at their doorstep over the ridiculously out of control system they were being FORCED to endure (you know, that thing that EVE isn't supposed to do). CCP put in more slots, MANY more slots, and guess what? The problem was actually quite solved, but we can't have anything that works as it is intended in EVE (glares at module nerfs), so obviously that system HAD to be replaced! And what a great replacement it is, it didn't enhance anything to a better condition than it was before, it only castrated a system that previously worked. Taking the situation back to the castor-days is NOT making anything better, and it sure as hell didn't leave anything alone, so what is the third possibility that it would be? Indeed, for all those in the crowd that guess it, it makes the situation WORSE! And here we are confined not by one's ability to research, but by the limitation of slots that would otherwise be plentiful if CCP hadn't unfixed what they had been hounded so much to fix once already. It's like going have a tune up on your car, and once that's taken care of you go back and pour a big bag of cement mix into the fuel tank. CCP makes things better only to go back with a sledgehammer on what was one of the few success stories involved with the research system. (and don't even get me started on the research system itself )
Rashmika Clavain Gallente Revelation Space	Posted - 2007.09.16 08:20:00 - [85] Sorry Max but anyone who need Empire research slots to keep them playing really needs to either find something better to do in EVE or find a new MMO.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.16 10:47:00 - [86] Seeing all the arguments about griefers putting in shuttle bpo to clog research slots, people with 500+ ME BPO and all the rest and balancing it with the need of new players (that haven't the resources to set up pos or rent labs slots from an alliance and possibly aren't in a corporation with pos), a relatively symple solution could be to limit the max number of public research slots rentable by a person to a number lower than the max number of research slots. For example it could be possible to limit the number of public research slots (ME, PE, copy and invention) to 3 for each character. The other laboratory slots available to the character are usable only in a POS. It will allow new players a decent access to laboratory slots to learn how they work, but anyone truly interested in invention or production will need a research lab in a POS to work full time.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:08:00 - [87] Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station and there will be no grief
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:38:00 - [88] lets look at it for sec from an RP perspective: if i were the CEO of ANY NPC-corp with research labs, id go quite some lengths to add more labs (slots), because even the most stupid corp leader can see the profit that can be made with more labs. am i missing something there? would those corps cut down on their own profits in any way by enabling more people to own researched BPs? so, from an rp perspective im all for MORE SLOTS, because the current situation feels wrong and KILLS IMMERSION. from a "gamedesigning pov" i simply dont know whats better. the current situation or more slots or any other solution. (like for instance give every player or corporation one or more "personal" slots" that can only be used by them) i simply dont know, and i think its a bit difficult to foresee which change will cause what effect.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:47:00 - [89] Originally by: Sessho Seki Actually, more slots IS the answer as already proven in the past before the Queue system replaced the static-slot system. No, it isn't. The queue system was changed before POS's were released so there was no alternative. Now, there IS an alternative. There are LOTS of alternatives. After reading the rest of your post I can't figure out if you are for or against adding more public slots. Anyway, what CCP need to do was listed above. Allow all research to be performed by the public on player owned research stations. Place a simple system whereby the POS owner only recieves payment for the service after the research is completed (funds stay in lieu to ensure he doesn't pack up the POS and go. If he does, then funds are refunded and maybe a fine of some sort charged to him) Then, as stated above, remove all public research slots from the game. CCP keeps talking of a player created market, and players building off the game's foundations. This is just another step that needs to be taken in doing so. Promote player productions and put less reliance on public facilities. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:54:00 - [90] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet lets look at it for sec from an RP perspective: if i were the CEO of ANY NPC-corp with research labs, id go quite some lengths to add more labs (slots), because even the most stupid corp leader can see the profit that can be made with more labs. CCP don't want the empires to increase their resources. They want the players to build up Eve. That is why they allow outposts in 0.0 rather than adding more npc stations. CCP are able to easily change things to ensure research slots are never a problem again. Quote: so, from an rp perspective im all for MORE SLOTS, because the current situation feels wrong and KILLS IMMERSION. As people will tell you this is a PVP game. Having NPC's provide any and all infrastructure is the real immersion killer. It puts us back to fountain and curse days where people's ownership in space was a few giant secure containers near the gate warning people to stay out. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2007.09.16 15:59:00 - [91] Honestly, I don't see why they don't just fix POS research so you can have it available to the public for a certain cost.
Darg Even	Posted - 2007.09.16 16:32:00 - [92] There are about 15-20 free ME slots in the system where my main lives. It's not CCPs fault people don't use the options available to them.
Avery Fatwallet	Posted - 2007.09.16 17:11:00 - [93] Originally by: Ricdic As people will tell you this is a PVP game. Having NPC's provide any and all infrastructure is the real immersion killer. It puts us back to fountain and curse days where people's ownership in space was a few giant secure containers near the gate warning people to stay out. ofc i see your point, but npcs have always been a part of video games, and imho do NOT kill immersion, by simply existing. when they act somewhat logical, that is. on top of that... we will always need npcs to seed certain stuff, if its only blueprints, then so be it. but still they exist. and since eve definetly tries to be a cool game, and pretends those npc corps are "real" like you and me (heck even the ceos have searchable characters) wouldnt you think its strange that all those corps did, was seed blueprints? right.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.16 17:18:00 - [94] Originally by: Avery Fatwallet ofc i see your point, but npcs have always been a part of video games, and imho do NOT kill immersion, by simply existing. when they act somewhat logical, that is. I dont think you did see my point. NPC's have a purpose in this game, no question. But what the OP and you are requesting, is to remove player roles and replace them with NPC ones, which is definetly killing immersion. It's one thing to have certain npc only available items on market, or providing services that players cannot provide (clone bays in empire etc), but increasing the amount of NPC ran laboratories in empire has a direct effect of killing off the real people providing the services. So in effect, you support removal of player owned infrastructure to be replaced by npc computer operators. That was my point in regards to this being a PVP game. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.09.17 01:32:00 - [95] Edited by: Sessho Seki on 17/09/2007 01:33:23 Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Sessho Seki Actually, more slots IS the answer as already proven in the past before the Queue system replaced the static-slot system. No, it isn't. The queue system was changed before POS's were released so there was no alternative. Now, there IS an alternative. There are LOTS of alternatives. After reading the rest of your post I can't figure out if you are for or against adding more public slots. Anyway, what CCP need to do was listed above. Allow all research to be performed by the public on player owned research stations. Place a simple system whereby the POS owner only recieves payment for the service after the research is completed (funds stay in lieu to ensure he doesn't pack up the POS and go. If he does, then funds are refunded and maybe a fine of some sort charged to him) Then, as stated above, remove all public research slots from the game. CCP keeps talking of a player created market, and players building off the game's foundations. This is just another step that needs to be taken in doing so. Promote player productions and put less reliance on public facilities. Yes, it is, because indeed there are alternatives, but the problem is still there and very much due to CCP unfixing what previously was resolved. Regardless of how you equate it, itÆs not working. (/sarcasm)As for your nonsense about putting less reliance on public facilities, then just stop using NPC stations and NPC gates! There are alternatives, LOTS of them! You can just use jump drives and player stations (see how asinine your argument is when itÆs used against you?)(/end sarcasm) Originally by: Ricdic [...]As people will tell you this is a PVP game. Having NPC's provide any and all infrastructure is the real immersion killer. It puts us back to fountain and curse days where people's ownership in space was a few giant secure containers near the gate warning people to stay out. Actually, even by OveurÆs own words, it is MOSTLY a PvP game, as in not entirely, and some aspects of it are either best off, or required to be, within the realm of the NPCÆs in order to make this game viable in any way, among those aspects are research slots otherwise CCP would have had POS research setups from day one rather than the research slots.
34534bobalt3244	Posted - 2007.09.17 04:19:00 - [96] Please add 100 material research slots to every station in empire and make it double for low security.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.17 10:02:00 - [97] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Avery Fatwallet ofc i see your point, but npcs have always been a part of video games, and imho do NOT kill immersion, by simply existing. when they act somewhat logical, that is. I dont think you did see my point. NPC's have a purpose in this game, no question. But what the OP and you are requesting, is to remove player roles and replace them with NPC ones, which is definetly killing immersion. It's one thing to have certain npc only available items on market, or providing services that players cannot provide (clone bays in empire etc), but increasing the amount of NPC ran laboratories in empire has a direct effect of killing off the real people providing the services. So in effect, you support removal of player owned infrastructure to be replaced by npc computer operators. That was my point in regards to this being a PVP game. Ricdic, it is logic that you are suggesting to buff your activity, but it is not a valid solution for new players. Unless you are ready to rent a ME slot for something like 100K isk for 1 month or research your suggestion of moving all research on player controlled laboratory mean limiting research to estabilished player with decent isk inflow only. I think a reasonable compromise would be limiting the number of public slots usable for each character. Currently I am using almost constantly 33 research slots with my characters (and could go up at 50 or so simply using the other alts on the accounts). That allow me to get all the copyes I need for invention and inventing them pratically non stop. The 2-3 day waithing list for copying for me is no indrance, as I get enough copyes to work with tranquility. If I want ME research I simply put up my POS and work there. For a new player with the capacity to use only 1 research slot at a time the same waiting list is a serious hindrance. 20 days of waiting list for ME means he will not do ME. And he has not the isk to pay for the research slots you rent. A good compromise, to me, could be to allow the use of the extra research slot given by Advanced laboratory operations only in the mobile laboratoryes, not in the NPC owned. That will give more client for you and the other owner of research POS without crippling all new players interested in research in all his forms.
Goodlookin Gus Gallente Viking Research and Production space weaponry and trade	Posted - 2007.09.17 10:59:00 - [98] ya the slots in poses is an bit more expansive, on service like the one i run and others. but eve is an player based economy and industrial side. so it shoudl concentrate on it. and instead of making more npc slots. i would say remove them comletely. instead give pos owner the ability to open them up for puplic, players not in your corp or alliance. also introduce even more spesial labs or bigger labs so pos prices can drop an bit. the more slots we have the cheaper they will be each. but i understand why players want to increase the puplic slots. they dont wanna pay the prices research company charges. and to the pos above me. have ccp increase the number of slots we have in the labs. then prices can drop. fuel is not free you know :) eve is player based industrial/trading etc. make it even more so. Give us better labs and remove puplic labs completely :) empire research and bpc sales High sec research service avalible. join channel viking research for more info
Athiven SkyWolf	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:20:00 - [99] If you want research slots, like said before, just set up your own POS or rent a lab in one owned by another player corp. The game economy is set to have NPCs playing smallest role possible, no need to have NPCs providing a service other players can provide.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:29:00 - [100] You can increase the mobile laboratory slots as much as you want. You will never drop the rent for those to the point it can be affordable for new players that want some ME for a T1 ammo blueprint. Current price is what? 1 or 2 millions day? You see someone paying 1 million to do ME research on a 200K BPO? The argument "close NPC slot, PC should give all the research slot" work only for players that can affort do spend millions every day in research slots. But people should start doing research and they will start it doing a step at a time (I dubt most of them do as I did and afther 1 mont of play start a second account saying "This will be a researcher, and do R&D as first thing"). First trying some production, discovering the problem linked to the wastage on BPO, then trying ME research, escalating step by step. If the first impact with ME is a 30 day waithing list or a 2 million fee for a day of research the budding researcher look is 5-10 million wallet and change profession.
Helene Ling	Posted - 2007.09.17 11:34:00 - [101] I think it's fine the way it is. I just made this research alt and I'm looking forward to making some money with invention and production, by setting up my own POS. If it would be easy and everyone could just work with npc stations, the market would be much more competative and profit margins would be lower. Why should all the content be available to people that don't want to put effort into it?
Athiven SkyWolf	Posted - 2007.09.17 12:02:00 - [102] Edited by: Athiven SkyWolf on 17/09/2007 12:03:45 Originally by: Venkul Mul You can increase the mobile laboratory slots as much as you want. You will never drop the rent for those to the point it can be affordable for new players that want some ME for a T1 ammo blueprint. Current price is what? 1 or 2 millions day? You see someone paying 1 million to do ME research on a 200K BPO? The argument "close NPC slot, PC should give all the research slot" work only for players that can affort do spend millions every day in research slots. But people should start doing research and they will start it doing a step at a time (I dubt most of them do as I did and afther 1 mont of play start a second account saying "This will be a researcher, and do R&D as first thing"). First trying some production, discovering the problem linked to the wastage on BPO, then trying ME research, escalating step by step. If the first impact with ME is a 30 day waithing list or a 2 million fee for a day of research the budding researcher look is 5-10 million wallet and change profession. So, you want every player even beginners to be able to produce their own ammos cheap because using researched BPOs ? then you will have corps that invested time and money in research on their ammos BPOs selling a lot less if selling anything anymore. And you will have factories using same argument than you used for research "players should be able to begin at smallest scale". For factories, smallest scale is ammos. Definitely would just create another problem. You also will have laboratories that invested building POS planning to be able to rent their slots and get a profit of it having more difficulties than they already have atm finding people renting (apparently as there are in this thread plenty advertising they have plenty slots open). Also, players are not discouraged going research path because of this, they can begin researching PE instead of ME. I did and there are a lot of researchers already IMO. Number of players increased ? Right, but so did the number of systems. The problem is that everyone is concentrating in empire space and that a lot rarely interact or talk to others when playing. Look how many of those researchers are in a 1 people corp... For one person indeed 1 million might be much but anything to push people to join others is good IMO so make them join a corp that will be able to build a POS, talk to corps renting slots...
prathe Minmatar Omega Enterprises Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2007.09.17 13:12:00 - [103] Originally by: Sessho Seki Edited by: Sessho Seki on 02/09/2007 20:22:35 As per usual, it's 1 step forward, and 2 steps back with the progression of EVE. In the beginning, there were not enough slots, and the people were unhappy. They jumped on CCP's case about it, at first CCP did nothing and let the problem spiral out of control and only mitigated the problem with increasing rents which in turn only led to higher reselling prices and continuing to magnify the problem. While it took seeming forever to get results, CCP finally did the right thing and just put more slots into the game, which actually solved the problem! But having a problem solved is unacceptable, so CCP went out of their way to botch up the system they had just gotten to a decent state by instituting the 'queue system', which is not only undoing all the success that had been achieved before, but then turns around and makes the problem just that much worse by constraining the one thing that helped to fix the problem, volume of available slots. It doesn't help the game to have the developers going out of their way to make it worse. As for POS facilities, if anything, CCP should instate considerable bonuses to effectiveness (perhaps upwards of 25-50%) of them, but the public alternatives shouldn't be castrated in favor of POS owners. yeah thats pretty much how it went ccp said they needed to reduce the lab slots to lower the amount of db/server usage all the new lab slots were taking up by making research available in hundreds of new poses no populating eve i wonder what that deos to eve?
Startling Revelation	Posted - 2007.09.17 14:44:00 - [104] A possible solution, which would cover most bases, would be to only allow limited research in NPC slots. The limitation could be one of several - no research beyond 10 (or whatever) ME, no researching BPs over a certain value, ships over a certain size, only 5 cycles of ME per job, etc etc. This would increase availability of NPC slots, especially to newer manufacturers, without significantly impacting on research POSes.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.17 16:40:00 - [105] Originally by: Athiven SkyWolf So, you want every player even beginners to be able to produce their own ammos cheap because using researched BPOs ? then you will have corps that invested time and money in research on their ammos BPOs selling a lot less if selling anything anymore. And you will have factories using same argument than you used for research "players should be able to begin at smallest scale". For factories, smallest scale is ammos. Definitely would just create another problem. You also will have laboratories that invested building POS planning to be able to rent their slots and get a profit of it having more difficulties than they already have atm finding people renting (apparently as there are in this thread plenty advertising they have plenty slots open). Also, players are not discouraged going research path because of this, they can begin researching PE instead of ME. I did and there are a lot of researchers already IMO. Number of players increased ? Right, but so did the number of systems. The problem is that everyone is concentrating in empire space and that a lot rarely interact or talk to others when playing. Look how many of those researchers are in a 1 people corp... For one person indeed 1 million might be much but anything to push people to join others is good IMO so make them join a corp that will be able to build a POS, talk to corps renting slots... Post while sober, you will find your reasoning a bit less fuzzy. Yes, I will be happy if new player that want to learn how to research start with small ammunitions. You have started with battleships? You think that the estabilished corp are living so much on the edge on production that a new player producing ammunitions is a problem? Exactly what is your argument about the factories? You want only private owned factories and no public slots like the people I was replying want only private owned research slots? Private owned laboratories are gettin a decent return and thir prices are set to get that return. They will not rent rtesearch space at a cost affordable for a new player, but new players have the right to try research if they want. Moving all the research slots to private control is a very bad move. Great decision PE research instead of ME researc, perfect. Continue so, you have a future. Quote: Number of players increased ? Right, but so did the number of systems. But none of those new system as a station, so the number of public slots has not increased. My suggestions are to protect the new researcher, not the big alliance entrenched in 0.0.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.17 16:51:00 - [106] Originally by: Startling Revelation A possible solution, which would cover most bases, would be to only allow limited research in NPC slots. The limitation could be one of several - no research beyond 10 (or whatever) ME, no researching BPs over a certain value, ships over a certain size, only 5 cycles of ME per job, etc etc. This would increase availability of NPC slots, especially to newer manufacturers, without significantly impacting on research POSes. Some of those limit are already in effect. You can't have a job longer than 30 days unless it is a single point ME/PE increase ot a single run copy. As an item get more complicated the time for each operation get longer, so it is not possible to run large number of research cycles. But a player with enough research slot and alts will fill all the slot in a station for 2 days (for example), then the next one will queue for another 2 day, then another player for another 2 day, and so on. That is how a good part of the queues are formed. Probably when you look the queues in a station and see 6 days, 6 days, 8 days, 12 days, 29 days, only the last one is a single long job. The rest are people with mid sized jobs, 2-4 days, that have queued the work they want done so it start as soon as the work from another player complete. Limiting the total number of research cycles you can do on a BPO in a public station (as you suggested, ME and PE 10 could be a good limit) is not a bad idea. Probably even limiting them so that no capital ship components can be researched in a public facility could be a good idea.
Wendat Huron Stellar Solutions	Posted - 2007.09.17 17:19:00 - [107] Back in the day you owned research slots, you paid for them and they were off the market, consider that.
Sessho Seki	Posted - 2007.09.17 23:32:00 - [108] Originally by: prathe Originally by: Sessho Seki Edited by: Sessho Seki on 02/09/2007 20:22:35 As per usual, it's 1 step forward, and 2 steps back with the progression of EVE. In the beginning, there were not enough slots, and the people were unhappy. They jumped on CCP's case about it, at first CCP did nothing and let the problem spiral out of control and only mitigated the problem with increasing rents which in turn only led to higher reselling prices and continuing to magnify the problem. While it took seeming forever to get results, CCP finally did the right thing and just put more slots into the game, which actually solved the problem! But having a problem solved is unacceptable, so CCP went out of their way to botch up the system they had just gotten to a decent state by instituting the 'queue system', which is not only undoing all the success that had been achieved before, but then turns around and makes the problem just that much worse by constraining the one thing that helped to fix the problem, volume of available slots. It doesn't help the game to have the developers going out of their way to make it worse. As for POS facilities, if anything, CCP should instate considerable bonuses to effectiveness (perhaps upwards of 25-50%) of them, but the public alternatives shouldn't be castrated in favor of POS owners. yeah thats pretty much how it went ccp said they needed to reduce the lab slots to lower the amount of db/server usage all the new lab slots were taking up by making research available in hundreds of new poses no populating eve i wonder what that deos to eve? Now you don't actually mean to suggest that CCP would use a feeble excuse to do something that doesn't make the game better, only succeeds in adding problems to the game, and worst of all proves completely impractical and unnecessary to have done from the beginning!?!?! Do you??? Perish the thought
343conspiracy43345	Posted - 2007.09.18 00:36:00 - [109] Take the multiplayer out of the mmorpg called eve.
34534bobalt3244	Posted - 2007.09.18 12:21:00 - [110] Originally by: 343conspiracy43345 Take the multiplayer out of the mmorpg called eve. Take the paranoia out of your head.
Lady Caeser Open Fist of Castallus	Posted - 2007.09.18 12:36:00 - [111] rather than increasing slots, they should make it so you can see who is using the slots. want more slots? send an ultimatum then declare war. ps: npc corpers shouldn't be able to use slots. period. -------------------------------------- What are you looking at? --------------------------------------
34534bobalt3244	Posted - 2007.09.19 13:18:00 - [112] Originally by: Lady Caeser rather than increasing slots, they should make it so you can see who is using the slots. want more slots? send an ultimatum then declare war. ps: npc corpers shouldn't be able to use slots. period. Seeing who uses slots? No. That would be totally illogical. We need less things that are dumb and illogical like local is.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.19 13:22:00 - [113] Why not put up pos in high sec and do research faster? ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.20 04:31:00 - [114] Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 04:38:00 - [115] Originally by: Max Tesla Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station Stop bumping your thread with variations on the same sentence. If you've not noticed, we've already given you solutions.
riprjak Hermits Rest	Posted - 2007.09.20 05:14:00 - [116] Originally by: Max Tesla CCP really needs to increase the number of Material research slots They already have, they are called POS. Just find a free moon and drop a research pos with enough fuel for what you want to do. There are a metric **** ton of free moons in 0.5~0.7 space and its not even a years work to get state standing that high. Its what I do whenever I need to do some research. Assuming you dont get wardecced for the duration of the research, your POS is safe :) err! jak.
RedLion Caldari Caldari Navy II	Posted - 2007.09.20 05:21:00 - [117] Well I'm fine with 25 days wait before my job starts, it forces us to think ahead. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - The Gallenteans must be destroyed - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.20 16:43:00 - [118] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Max Tesla Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station Stop bumping your thread with variations on the same sentence. If you've not noticed, we've already given you solutions. OOOOOOOOOOOH Really? How does it help people from quitting eve because they were never able to do the research bit which might have made them stay longer?
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:02:00 - [119] Originally by: Max Tesla Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Max Tesla Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station Stop bumping your thread with variations on the same sentence. If you've not noticed, we've already given you solutions. OOOOOOOOOOOH Really? How does it help people from quitting eve because they were never able to do the research bit which might have made them stay longer? I realize I'm bumping your worthless bump of your worthless bump of your thread, but still: They could do research. Either they simply refused to invest either the social skills or the ISK and standing required to perform their research at their pace, or they refused to wait for NPC slots to open up. People who are antisocial, impatient, and lazy have no business playing this game. Now, man up and put up a station, give up and schmooze your way into a corp with a research station, or shut up and GTFO.
Dunpeal Hunter Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:04:00 - [120] .
Max Spiegel	Posted - 2007.09.20 18:05:00 - [121] hgt
34534bobalt3244	Posted - 2007.09.20 20:59:00 - [122] No.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.21 03:29:00 - [123] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Max Tesla Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Max Tesla Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station Stop bumping your thread with variations on the same sentence. If you've not noticed, we've already given you solutions. OOOOOOOOOOOH Really? How does it help people from quitting eve because they were never able to do the research bit which might have made them stay longer? I realize I'm bumping your worthless bump of your worthless bump of your thread, but still: They could do research. Either they simply refused to invest either the social skills or the ISK and standing required to perform their research at their pace, or they refused to wait for NPC slots to open up. People who are antisocial, impatient, and lazy have no business playing this game. Now, man up and put up a station, give up and schmooze your way into a corp with a research station, or shut up and GTFO. I am right you even admit it, it makes people quit eve faster which makes less people pay and makes eve less then it could be Obviously you have some economic interest in seeing that there as few as possible research slots and anyone, according to you, who does not like the current queue system is an ôantisocial, impatient, and lazyö person who has ôno business playing this gameö
343conspiracy43345	Posted - 2007.09.21 13:34:00 - [124] Originally by: Max Tesla Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Max Tesla Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Max Tesla Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station Stop bumping your thread with variations on the same sentence. If you've not noticed, we've already given you solutions. OOOOOOOOOOOH Really? How does it help people from quitting eve because they were never able to do the research bit which might have made them stay longer? I realize I'm bumping your worthless bump of your worthless bump of your thread, but still: They could do research. Either they simply refused to invest either the social skills or the ISK and standing required to perform their research at their pace, or they refused to wait for NPC slots to open up. People who are antisocial, impatient, and lazy have no business playing this game. Now, man up and put up a station, give up and schmooze your way into a corp with a research station, or shut up and GTFO. I am right you even admit it, it makes people quit eve faster which makes less people pay and makes eve less then it could be Obviously you have some economic interest in seeing that there as few as possible research slots and anyone, according to you, who does not like the current queue system is an ôantisocial, impatient, and lazyö person who has ôno business playing this gameö Are you that dense? Get your own station or join a research alliance like Zzz.
Max Tesla	Posted - 2007.09.23 17:50:00 - [125] Originally by: 343conspiracy43345 Originally by: Max Tesla Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Max Tesla Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Max Tesla Increase the number of Material Research slots --> 3000/station Stop bumping your thread with variations on the same sentence. If you've not noticed, we've already given you solutions. OOOOOOOOOOOH Really? How does it help people from quitting eve because they were never able to do the research bit which might have made them stay longer? I realize I'm bumping your worthless bump of your worthless bump of your thread, but still: They could do research. Either they simply refused to invest either the social skills or the ISK and standing required to perform their research at their pace, or they refused to wait for NPC slots to open up. People who are antisocial, impatient, and lazy have no business playing this game. Now, man up and put up a station, give up and schmooze your way into a corp with a research station, or shut up and GTFO. I am right you even admit it, it makes people quit eve faster which makes less people pay and makes eve less then it could be Obviously you have some economic interest in seeing that there as few as possible research slots and anyone, according to you, who does not like the current queue system is an ôantisocial, impatient, and lazyö person who has ôno business playing this gameö Are you that dense? Get your own station or join a research alliance like Zzz. Wow and the price for not reading what I said goes to Drum roll "343conspiracy43345" By not having enough slots new people will quit earlier because they will never get to try the research bit, which if they had tried might have made them play longer and thereby pay longer and thereby contribute in making eve online even better

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