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Stins Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.01 13:06:00 - [1] Edited by: Stins on 01/09/2007 13:07:08 This report is also posted on eve-spirit.com Another month has passed. For the 9th month in a row, ISSO has issued a 5% dividend to itÆs shareholders, paying 45% of the IPO price back to its investors. So far, a cumulative total of 122.492.000.000 isk has been paid out in dividends. You read that right, thatÆs almost 122,5 Bn isk. At the end of august, the profit ticker stopped at 18.814.000.000 isk, which is 6,47%, slighty lower as july. As stated in my previous report, we took a one-time loss to sell off shopping baskets. We therefore decided to take another step to increase our future profits. Over the next few months, ISSO will revalue some of our assets, mostly our T2 BPO portfolio. These prints are currently valued in our balance sheet at the price that we bought them, and weÆre going to adjust that to a more realisitic value. This will result in a loss of about 25 Bn isk, of which we wrote off 8 Bn this month. The remaining 17 Bn isk will be written off in the next 2 months. We spread this out over several months, so our shareholders will not be hurt at all and we make sure we can issue dividends of 5%. The profit forecasts for september and october are similar to the results of July and August. Balance sheet Assets 20927 shares in wallet 94,8 bn ISK loans 141,52 bn ISK industrial assets (BPOs, inventory, POS) 6,81 bn ISK trade assets/market orders 11,24 bn ISK shopping baskets 36,33 bn ISK cash 290,7 bill ISK Liabilities 29073 shares outstanding 10 Misk per share IPO price 290,7 bill ISK Stins, ISS Finance Director
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution	Posted - 2007.09.01 13:52:00 - [2] 45% already! Nice. Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert - Sovereign Systems - Alliance Rank
Ghost Emperor Amarr EvE Mutual Fund Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.01 17:42:00 - [3] Very nice thanks, soz about the loss of value on the BPOs, but congrats on maintaining dividends. I have increased our holding ;) Visit the EvE Galactic Stock Exchange in game or out EMFI Blog is available here: Linky http://emfi.blogspot.com/
Zachariah Ombiby	Posted - 2007.09.01 18:01:00 - [4] Originally by: Serenity Steele 45% already! Nice. Amazingly enough, 9 months at the guaranteed minimum of 5% does indeed equal 45%.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.09.01 20:28:00 - [5] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 01/09/2007 20:28:41 Originally by: "Roemy Schneider" and there's always something: january, february: silence... ISS roaming around march: "meeh management transition", insider loans part 1 april: "oops we made an error last month", "meeh invention" may: "meeh invention", NAV reduction due to faulty dividend june: loan business exceeds 40% of the ISSO, stins trying to weasel from "ISSO loaned cash to several entities that are part of ISS, corps or persons" to "When I say 'related to ISS', they arent ISS right?" july: 15bil wasted, loans still >40% what's next for august? well then... i just had to ask, didn't i.... adds missed T2-BPO evaluation to the list funny though, as t2-BPOs were explicitly not part of the ISSO: The Alliance isn't basing the investments on Tech II assets, although the people wanting to borrow do. So loans are secured against a (low) valuation of the Tech II BPOs. so pick one: epic fail to reevaluate already low values or an outright lie. this is 25bil we're talking about after all. oh and look what i found how could i have missed that all these months... now i can't find the post where you told us such a thing was never intended dig - putting the gist back into logistics
Vrizuh Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.01 21:02:00 - [6] I am here for the Roemy. Don't let me down ISS, these threads make me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. ...please don't hurt me. I know you could both buy all my assets with under 3 hours of trading profits, so I'll be good!
Banco Joo Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.02 13:10:00 - [7] Could I get some clarification on what exactly trade assets/market orders and shopping baskets are? Thanks.
VScorpion Gallente Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.03 21:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Banco Joo Could I get some clarification on what exactly trade assets/market orders and shopping baskets are? Thanks. a shopping basket is a bunch of stuff that is bought in empire and then moved to a location in 0.0 to be sold and so supposed to generate a profit. dosent allways work of course. assets/market orders... well market order are active orders on the market, you deposit the money and get stuff when ppl sell them to you. assets is... well just stuff... what ever you have lying around that you can use/sell hope that helped. or if you were asking for specific and I by mistake took you for a... well noob I am sorry and ignore above. have a nice day VScorpion
niarT epaR GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.04 01:46:00 - [9] Originally by: VScorpion Originally by: Banco Joo Could I get some clarification on what exactly trade assets/market orders and shopping baskets are? Thanks. a shopping basket is a bunch of stuff that is bought in empire and then moved to a location in 0.0 to be sold and so supposed to generate a profit. dosent allways work of course. assets/market orders... well market order are active orders on the market, you deposit the money and get stuff when ppl sell them to you. assets is... well just stuff... what ever you have lying around that you can use/sell hope that helped. or if you were asking for specific and I by mistake took you for a... well noob I am sorry and ignore above. have a nice day I'm not a noob, maybe I should have phrased the question better. I'm looking for where you account for the finished product of your T2 items that have been produced and may be in inventory/on the market for sale, as well as your escrowed money for buy orders. Also with as many T2 BPO's as you have, what kind of utilization rate are you seeing? IE, are they in the factory producing 90%+ of the time?
Humjob GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:18:00 - [10] I really hope for the sake of your investors that you guys don't produce out of your 0.0 space. Because after we're done with FIX and RISE, you're next
Rachel Vend Gallente Zend Insurance	Posted - 2007.09.04 02:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Humjob I really hope for the sake of your investors that you guys don't produce out of your 0.0 space. Because after we're done with FIX and RISE, you're next Probably wouldn't be very good for the GoonSwarm members that own large amounts of shares.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.09.04 03:49:00 - [12] Any word on the allegations that you are loaning money internally to keep the profit margin at the absolute minimum ?
VScorpion Gallente Koshaku Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:09:00 - [13] Originally by: Montaire Any word on the allegations that you are loaning money internally to keep the profit margin at the absolute minimum ? several... the short form is: rubbish! VScorpion
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:18:00 - [14] VScorpion, you need to stop posting. Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:17:00 - [15] Originally by: VScorpion Originally by: Montaire Any word on the allegations that you are loaning money internally to keep the profit margin at the absolute minimum ? several... the short form is: rubbish! Thats good to hear, but I'd like a more detailed answer from an ISSO Spokesperson. Several people have spoken on this, ISSO is loaning money to itself in order to hide dividends from its investors and that is blatent thievery. The market community at large really should get an answer on this. Or perhaps a well writen news story sent to the Events team regarding internal corruption in the largest EVE IPO ever would be more appropriate ?
Montaire Lacedaemon. Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:04:00 - [16] Originally by: Stins Over the next few months, ISSO will revalue some of our assets, mostly our T2 BPO portfolio. These prints are currently valued in our balance sheet at the price that we bought them, and weÆre going to adjust that to a more realisitic value. This will result in a loss of about 25 Bn isk, of which we wrote off 8 Bn this month. The remaining 17 Bn isk will be written off in the next 2 months. So, you are arbitrarily De-Valueing your assets ? This seeems like YET ANOTHER way to shaft ISS shareholders out of profits above the margin. And your doing it over 3 months ? The only reason to do this is to pad your balance sheet. You know you've taken the Capital Loss, you know how much it is. T2 BPO's are just like investments, when you loose value you should report it to the shareholders in a timely fashion and not cook your books or "Restate" things just to make it easier on your balance sheet. It seems like basic integrity is lacking here.
Stins Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:32:00 - [17] Originally by: niarT epaR Originally by: VScorpion Originally by: Banco Joo Could I get some clarification on what exactly trade assets/market orders and shopping baskets are? Thanks. a shopping basket is a bunch of stuff that is bought in empire and then moved to a location in 0.0 to be sold and so supposed to generate a profit. dosent allways work of course. assets/market orders... well market order are active orders on the market, you deposit the money and get stuff when ppl sell them to you. assets is... well just stuff... what ever you have lying around that you can use/sell hope that helped. or if you were asking for specific and I by mistake took you for a... well noob I am sorry and ignore above. have a nice day I'm not a noob, maybe I should have phrased the question better. I'm looking for where you account for the finished product of your T2 items that have been produced and may be in inventory/on the market for sale, as well as your escrowed money for buy orders. Also with as many T2 BPO's as you have, what kind of utilization rate are you seeing? IE, are they in the factory producing 90%+ of the time? Finished products of T2 items go to the "market orders" on the balance sheet. Shopping baskets are products that are bought and resold on other markets. We hardly use buy orders, we get most of our supplies trough contracts with other corporations or inhouse production. But whenever we have buyorders open, they'd go into production stock / inventory. T2 bpos are in the factories allmost 24/7 (they're not producing at highest few hours per month) Stins, ISS Finance Director
Stins Interstellar Starbase Syndicate Operations Interstellar Starbase Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:40:00 - [18] Originally by: Montaire Any word on the allegations that you are loaning money internally to keep the profit margin at the absolute minimum ? We've loaned isk to ISS related 3rd parties at the same terms as everybody else could get a loan. The intention was never to keep profit margin lower. I didnt even think of that until someone mentioned it here. Offcourse you won't believe me but that's the full story. Originally by: Montaire Originally by: Stins Over the next few months, ISSO will revalue some of our assets, mostly our T2 BPO portfolio. These prints are currently valued in our balance sheet at the price that we bought them, and weÆre going to adjust that to a more realisitic value. This will result in a loss of about 25 Bn isk, of which we wrote off 8 Bn this month. The remaining 17 Bn isk will be written off in the next 2 months. So, you are arbitrarily De-Valueing your assets ? This seeems like YET ANOTHER way to shaft ISS shareholders out of profits above the margin. And your doing it over 3 months ? The only reason to do this is to pad your balance sheet. You know you've taken the Capital Loss, you know how much it is. T2 BPO's are just like investments, when you loose value you should report it to the shareholders in a timely fashion and not cook your books or "Restate" things just to make it easier on your balance sheet. It seems like basic integrity is lacking here. I'll admit I'm not even close to being an expert economist, I just know the basics. I figured the best way to adjust the value of these bpo's to a more realistic value was to spread that over several months, so we still can pay out dividends to our shareholders and ISS takes the hit. Shareholders dont get hurt because even when we didnt write off 8 Bn on assets this month, we'd still score under 10%. Stins, ISS Finance Director
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:21:00 - [19] last month was 19155mil profits before or after the 15 bil depreciation? 'cause it's written like it's been included already. therefore this month wouldn't be "slightly lower" either. and you left out the topic about why you have T2 BPOs in the first place as they were explicitly not part of the IPO (see quote above). reevaluating them this late could be regarded more proof of your inability to react to the economy - similar to last month's overdue action with the shopping baskets. it's just happening waaaay too late. but since they're your fault now and have nothing to do with the IPO, you inject those 25bil now. leave our value alone. and about the loans. we've understood how you can't see anything wrong with them and that's another fail on your part. a simple "no" is not enough to wipe all doubts; maybe you even valued T2 BPOs of your friends a lil higher than usual and that's where this new big mess comes from. i don't know and i don't care: mischief is just too easy with that practice. but appearantly you want to keep that option. you call the guys 3rd parties now but i can quote your earlier statements over and over again. sry, but you, sir, are not fit to run a 290bil business and we've had it. 40bil NAV wasted and we're supposed to bear that? uhhh nope. some chatchannels even tinfoil that this latest imposition covers TaSessine's lost nyx or your tournament costs and i can't blame them. which brings us to the promise given at ISSO's birth (see quote up there) about buy(back) orders on the EGSE. when can we expect those? - putting the gist back into logistics
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:06:00 - [20] Originally by: Stins I'll admit I'm not even close to being an expert economist, I just know the basics. I figured the best way to adjust the value of these bpo's to a more realistic value was to spread that over several months, so we still can pay out dividends to our shareholders and ISS takes the hit. Shareholders dont get hurt because even when we didnt write off 8 Bn on assets this month, we'd still score under 10%. By spreading it over 3 months you are doing nothing but hurting investors. Why? Because you guarantee 5% per month, even if you lose money as a corp. So it wouldn't matter if you lost 90% of your corp wealth, you promised to pay 5% and would still pay it even tho you lost money. Or at least, that is the promise ISSO made. Instead, by spreading it over 3 months you guarantee that investors will not get a penny over 5% because the profits will be hurt all 3 months. Instead of putting it all in one month and then giving investors a chance to earn more than the bare minimum if the corp should happen to get over 10% in the next two months. I honestly don't care... I'm happy with my 5% and wish I had invested more as 5% is better than the nothing I make with my spare money. I, however, will not be investing more until I see an end to the weird things going on with each successive report. If we started seeing higher profits I'd potentially invest a massive chunk more and remove a large portion of your remaining shares. But it seems thats 3+ months off at least based on how you're doing things... and maybe never. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Zachariah Ombiby	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:06:00 - [21] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Stins I'll admit I'm not even close to being an expert economist, I just know the basics. I figured the best way to adjust the value of these bpo's to a more realistic value was to spread that over several months, so we still can pay out dividends to our shareholders and ISS takes the hit. Shareholders dont get hurt because even when we didnt write off 8 Bn on assets this month, we'd still score under 10%. By spreading it over 3 months you are doing nothing but hurting investors. Why? Because you guarantee 5% per month, even if you lose money as a corp. So it wouldn't matter if you lost 90% of your corp wealth, you promised to pay 5% and would still pay it even tho you lost money. Or at least, that is the promise ISSO made. Instead, by spreading it over 3 months you guarantee that investors will not get a penny over 5% because the profits will be hurt all 3 months. Instead of putting it all in one month and then giving investors a chance to earn more than the bare minimum if the corp should happen to get over 10% in the next two months. I honestly don't care... I'm happy with my 5% and wish I had invested more as 5% is better than the nothing I make with my spare money. I, however, will not be investing more until I see an end to the weird things going on with each successive report. If we started seeing higher profits I'd potentially invest a massive chunk more and remove a large portion of your remaining shares. But it seems thats 3+ months off at least based on how you're doing things... and maybe never. Lots of truth in the above. Investors might as well write off the rest of the year for seeing more than a 5% return. Until "the next thing" happens. Like, the mommy that got blown up a bit ago wasn't a personally-owned ship and they have to suck up that loss.
Xantia Gedur House of Gedur	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:07:00 - [22] Edited by: Xantia Gedur on 04/09/2007 21:13:18 Originally by: Shadarle ... and maybe never. If ppl haven't figured it out by now, you will never earn over 5%, even when ISS can they have no intention of doing so because the following months they might be below the promised 5% so it makes sense for them not to pay more than they need to and can loose the rest 'in the books'. Do you really think the ISS with the billions upon billions at their disposal can't make enough profit to give shareholders more than 5% even once? It's all a well planned financial fix. There are other IPO'S who had similar funds to what ISS had to spend and are delivering 6-8% returns monthly AND have buyback options. Why? because they are honest about their profits. For the ISSO shareholder, it will take another 11 months for people to get thier investment back assuming they started when the IPO opened, only then can ppl start to sing about 'pure profit'. But the fact is that it isn't even pure profit because you cannot sell the shares back to ISS, the reality is you have simply taken 2 years to break even on your investment. The actual value of your shares will be crap in a years time. Your share currently is not worth 10mil you bought it for just check EGSE and in a year you will have a hard time finding buyers especially with more competition in the markets meaning less profit for ISS and the fact everyone else would be trying to flog their ISSO shares. In the end you'll be left asking yourself if you could've actually made profit by yourself in those 2 years rather than giving the money to ISS. This is not a bash at ISS but personally I think that anyone who believes they will get more than 5% one day in this IPO is naive, it will never happen, and judging by the slow decline of certain markets ISS relies on and it's constant lending and borrowing to itself you should get out as soon as you can or you will regret it. Bookmark this post for future reference. ______________ Originally by: CCP Sharkbait the node is going to be killed. Originally by: Zhett Haukes permanently?!
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:31:00 - [23] Xantia Gedur ... there is actually another reason you don't see >5% when the ISSO does earn up to 10% return, because the >5% and <10% part of the return goes to ISSO. That's pretty plain in the IPO. BTW .. as a general Q to this forum .. are there any IPOs other than ISSO that guarantee a minimum return? Eve Strategic Maps - Outpost Alert - Sovereign Systems - Alliance Rank
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:39:00 - [24] Edited by: Imperius Blackheart on 04/09/2007 22:41:40 Originally by: Serenity Steele Xantia Gedur ... there is actually another reason you don't see >5% when the ISSO does earn up to 10% return, because the >5% and <10% part of the return goes to ISSO. That's pretty plain in the IPO. BTW .. as a general Q to this forum .. are there any IPOs other than ISSO that guarantee a minimum return? FIN and FIN-U Both have exceeded expection. Infact ISS could simply buy FIN-U bonds and get an average of 7-8% return, pay out 5% to its investers and sc*****off the top, yes its that reliable Nuff said. Edit, man thats an annoying word filter, the word which is filtered is what is discribed when you rub two things together, to take something off the top its scra..
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.09.05 02:08:00 - [25] Originally by: Serenity Steele BTW .. as a general Q to this forum .. are there any IPOs other than ISSO that guarantee a minimum return? including bonds? LMTA 10% Pillowsoft 10% FRPB 7% FIN-U 2x 3.5% (or how does that work again? don't own any) humm PSRS ? i believe it is 7% once it's out of research phase ricdic's bond 20%/3months and that's just the last 6 i'd call "bigger" ones. there was this guy financing his hulk, dusk blade's short term bond and somehow i'm not totally up to date about '81st division' right now (wtf o_O) and for the future; i've heard about one 80bil project in development and we'll have to see what proton can come up with once he's on shore again. and i have a feeling that PZI won't be gone long. nope, sry, if it weren't for FIN, you'd be rock bottom. - putting the gist back into logistics
Imperius Blackheart Caldari Trinity Nova KIA Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.05 05:34:00 - [26] Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: Serenity Steele nope, sry, if it weren't for FIN, you'd be rock bottom. Kinda worth noting that FIN hasn't done poorly due to mismanagement, but is a secured investment with T2 BPO's backing it up, when invention was introduced some of the security was lost and its no fault of Eefrits, since then any profits over 4% have gone back into rebuilding the security in the investment. As was discussed with and agreed by investors. I believe the security is nearly up to full value again now.
Roemy Schneider BINFORD	Posted - 2007.09.05 06:15:00 - [27] Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 05/09/2007 06:15:10 Originally by: Imperius Blackheart Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: Serenity Steele nope, sry, if it weren't for FIN, you'd be rock bottom. Kinda worth noting that FIN hasn't done poorly due to mismanagement, but is a secured investment with T2 BPO's backing it up, when invention was introduced some of the security was lost and its no fault of Eefrits, since then any profits over 4% have gone back into rebuilding the security in the investment. As was discussed with and agreed by investors. I believe the security is nearly up to full value again now. humm...? where did that text come from? edit: added another /quote - putting the gist back into logistics
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.09.05 06:38:00 - [28] Originally by: Roemy Schneider Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 05/09/2007 06:15:10 Originally by: Imperius Blackheart Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: Serenity Steele nope, sry, if it weren't for FIN, you'd be rock bottom. Kinda worth noting that FIN hasn't done poorly due to mismanagement, but is a secured investment with T2 BPO's backing it up, when invention was introduced some of the security was lost and its no fault of Eefrits, since then any profits over 4% have gone back into rebuilding the security in the investment. As was discussed with and agreed by investors. I believe the security is nearly up to full value again now. humm...? where did that text come from? edit: added another /quote improper use of the quote tags, i see it a lot on the boards. Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here
Miss Ark	Posted - 2007.09.05 07:28:00 - [29] Originally by: Roemy Schneider FIN-U 2x 3.5% (or how does that work again? don't own any) dead simple he pays out 7% minimum per month with 2 pay outs per month 3.5% at the start of the month then another 3.5% at the end of the month. i don't think he's ever just paid out a total 7% but that's the very least he'll payout
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Imperius Blackheart Originally by: Dr Slurm Originally by: Roemy Schneider Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 05/09/2007 06:15:10 Originally by: Imperius Blackheart Originally by: Roemy Schneider Originally by: Serenity Steele nope, sry, if it weren't for FIN, you'd be rock bottom. Kinda worth noting that FIN hasn't done poorly due to mismanagement, but is a secured investment with T2 BPO's backing it up, when invention was introduced some of the security was lost and its no fault of Eefrits, since then any profits over 4% have gone back into rebuilding the security in the investment. As was discussed with and agreed by investors. I believe the security is nearly up to full value again now. humm...? where did that text come from? edit: added another /quote improper use of the quote tags, i see it a lot on the boards. Actually off topic but I checked my quote tags, their right and stuff, I think its a forum bug tbh. The above quote has SS saying what roemy actually said. From the looks of it you edited the content of the quotes. Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here

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