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Nerfing Caldari?

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Talia Nachtigall Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 15	Posted - 2012.01.18 02:42:00 - [61] - Quote The Drake is NOT over-powered. I see them die to Hurricanes every day! Now the Hurricane... that ships needs to be balanced. Arty Shield Cane is OP! Don't pray for my soul. ;)
Julyan Fox Fission Inc. Fusion Alliance 8	Posted - 2012.01.18 03:12:00 - [62] - Quote Funny how you always hear "If I join a PVP fleet and see mostly drakes I just go do smth else", drakes = noob pvp ship etc etc, and now they are overpowered and require a rebalance? It seemed pretty clear, strong shield, low dps, low cost, so the guys that don't make billions a week can still afford a decent pvp throwaway missile ship. Take away the warfare link cpu bonus for what I care. Just don t be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the drake for new pilots.
Sara XIII Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State 40	Posted - 2012.01.18 03:14:00 - [63] - Quote Julyan Fox wrote: Funny how you always hear "If I join a PVP fleet and see mostly drakes I just go do smth else", drakes = noob pvp ship etc etc, and now they are overpowered and require a rebalance? Haha, well said!
Ocih Space Mermaids 53	Posted - 2012.01.18 03:18:00 - [64] - Quote Ocih wrote: If I could survive the Artillery wall 50 km behind it, my Harbi would melt a Drake. Test server: 2012.01.18 03:07:00 Victim: Ioci Corp: Space Mermaids Alliance: Bad Girl Posse Faction: Unknown Destroyed: Drake System: X-R3NM Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 30471 Involved parties: Name: Ocih (laid the final blow) Security: -0.10 Corp: Space Mermaids Alliance: Bad Girl Posse Faction: None Ship: Harbinger Weapon: Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I Damage Done: 30471 AB Harbi, triple trimark Buffer tank with 2 adaptives, no kin stack, no armor rep, I was at 13% armor when the drake popped. Full passive Drake with a rack of Arbalest launchers and Kin missles.
Marlona Sky EntroPrelatial Vanguard EntroPraetorian Aegis 365	Posted - 2012.01.18 03:28:00 - [65] - Quote Caldari has the 14 inch ***. Flight of a Thousand Rifters: A Player Event**
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 555	Posted - 2012.01.18 03:54:00 - [66] - Quote Ocih wrote: If I could survive the Artillery wall 50 km behind it, my Harbi would melt a Drake. This.... Drakes have to plug an EM hole the size of New York, Are VERY skill intensive to use right, And require alpha support to keep enemies off of them. For newer players this is the time of their EVE life. And then they can use their PVE drake to make funds to go out again. The drake is by FAR one of the best balanced ships in the game. DON'T CHANGE IT!
Hoskoal Ricks Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2012.01.18 04:21:00 - [67] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: Caldari has the 14 inch *****. CCP, my railrox!
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 346	Posted - 2012.01.18 04:58:00 - [68] - Quote Julyan Fox wrote: Funny how you always hear "If I join a PVP fleet and see mostly drakes I just go do smth else", drakes = noob pvp ship etc etc, and now they are overpowered and require a rebalance? It seemed pretty clear, strong shield, low dps, low cost, so the guys that don't make billions a week can still afford a decent pvp throwaway missile ship. Take away the warfare link cpu bonus for what I care. Just don t be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the drake for new pilots. I was about to type a few sentences, when I read this post. It 100% sums-up what I wanted to write. I would like to re-quote the very last sentence, with an addition :- "For the sake of players new to EvE, Just don't be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the Drake for new pilots." o/ The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Hoskoal Ricks Minmatar Republic 5	Posted - 2012.01.18 05:05:00 - [69] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: I would like to re-quote the very last sentence, with an addition :- "For the sake of players new to EvE, Just don't be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the Drake for new pilots." o/ Actually, that is the best possible outcome. More new players not being suckered into the broken caldari/missile combo right out of the gate is a win/win situation. The newbs get into better ships eventually, even though admittedly the drake is about the best you can do with extremely low sp, and in the mean time they learn the skills necessary to make the superior weapon systems (turrets) shine. Eventually the caldari ship count drags to a minimum with tengus being the last holdout and CCP has to finally recognize how broken the race is on the whole, rather than continue to objectify caldari based on what a single stand-out can do. Of course, I suspect a tengu nerf would be in the cards at that point, but a few years later we might actually get a launcher balance patch! Conclusion? Off with the drake's head! It's for our own good.
Herzog Wolfhammer Sigma Special Tactics Group 1122	Posted - 2012.01.18 05:12:00 - [70] - Quote Malcanis wrote: I for one welcome the prospect of a RoF-bonused, velocity bonused Drake. BRB buying HAM II launchers SHhhhhhhhh!!! He's just kidding!! Nothing to see here. Move along.
Super Chair Project Cerberus 109	Posted - 2012.01.18 05:47:00 - [71] - Quote Rather than nerfing ECM...why not buff sensor damps like they intend to? A celestis/arazu/lach damping a falcon/rook is already very effective against birds at range....
canflipper Infested U.E.D. 0	Posted - 2012.01.18 05:55:00 - [72] - Quote Shaalira D'arc wrote: Tier one BCs really do need a boost. QFT
Lili Lu 117	Posted - 2012.01.18 05:55:00 - [73] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: "For the sake of players new to EvE, Just don't be stupid and ruin the pve viability of the Drake for new pilots." Yep, here's one part of the problem. You see, no other race has a BC that can do level 4s like a drake can. The Myrm could have put out sufficient damage, until it got nerfed to a Vexor's damage output. The Harby still can put out the damage, but not have a tank at the same time. And the Cane ditto to the Harby, although it can take advantage of the ridiculous BC shield regen to pass some missions against angels. Basically if you fly any other race than Caladari you are stuck training BS and large ship weapons, which means more time training into that ship and less isk influx as a relative noob. You can't argue with the stats, and all the stupid replies in ship fitting threads of "just get a Drake" betray what you all know but don't like to admit. The ship lacks the tradeoff decisions that other ships have, damage or tank became damage and tank (sure the damage half is not op, but it is enough to get the job done). The CSM minutes are correct and CCP may finally have the balls to tell the majority population (and probably became the majority population because everyone heard eve is easy, if you get a drake) sorry but your favorite ship is overrepresented and overpowered and we have to trim it back (unlike the swift heavy nerf the Myrmidon got). Then there is pvp - Despite the well worn cliches - "but it can't do any damage whereas my Harby . . ." (of course then, where are the Harby fleets?), but it has an em hole the size of a (ignoring the fact that it is already partially filled by the resist bonus), and but i sacrifice so much damage to . . . (and yet you can still get full and sufficient damage at 70-80km unlike other ships in class at that range and still have a BS sized tank) the Drake has proliferated. Sure in the beginning everyone scoffed at it due to passive regen fittings trying to pvp. But then people realized here we have an excellent, in fact, BS class buffer and the ability to project damage farther than some BSs can. Cane fleets exist, but they are used much less often than drake fleets. Cane fleets are sorta gimick fleets "welp fleets". They have a role but it's not going toe to toe with battleships or ahacs unlike a drake fleet. The Drake has been a stand out for far too long. So what would happen with a damage reorientation. Well, I think you would still see some drake fleets. But they would be used in the same manner as cane fleets. Let's fly something that we may not come back in but we could end up laying a heap load of hurt on something big if we catch it. Without the resist bonus it will not sport a BS sized tank and thus will not be a brawling mainstay fleet type. For Caldari in general, the Nighthawk will benefit from the overall CCP buff to command ships. Again, probably in the offensive realm as it can already constuct a superior tank. Other tech III could be buffed to bring parity to the Tengu or the Tengu nerfed although probably indirectly through a heavy missile range and/or damage nerf. This was mentioned over a year ago I think, and probably is a right way to go about it. Rokh and Naga appear to be getting plenty of use in pvp now with the hybrid buffs. Caldari will not disappear from pvp and is not presently underrepresented in fleets, and would not be after a drake nerf. The only legitimate complaint I see in this thread is the crap about the Naga being too strong in comparison to the Talos. They are different ships that will probably get used differently. Remember too that the meetings and minutes were done about a month or more ago. It is unlikely now that CCP could seriously think the Talos is weak and in need of help or the Naga op. Basically suck it up. The Drake has managed to escape what hit the Myrm right out of the gate. Probably because there are so many of you (and here I could say me as well because I trained two characters in the Drake since it is the easy route). I look forward frankly to more tier 1 BCs, or Crusiers getting used and not being instant fodder for tier 2 BCs. And, always remember there is an inevitable cycle to this. When I started Gallente was king which lasted a long time. Then there was the Amarr rebalance and everyone wanted to fly a Zealot or Apoc (until the probing change killed sniping BS fleets) and Minmatar was bringing up the rear. Now the perception is Minmatar is king since the projectile buff. Meanwhile, Caldari has always been middling, never bottom, for pvp, and has always been king for pve, and probably will remain that way.
Super Chair Project Cerberus 109	Posted - 2012.01.18 06:06:00 - [74] - Quote Lili Lu wrote: Cane fleets exist, but they are used much less often than drake fleets. Cane fleets are sorta gimick fleets "welp fleets". They have a role but it's not going toe to toe with battleships or ahacs unlike a drake fleet. The Drake has been a stand out for far too long. I'm sorry, what? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZcA5g59Zsg i'll just forget that that super cap and fleet of abbadons never died...
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 293	Posted - 2012.01.18 06:20:00 - [75] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: Caldari has the 14 inch *****. Best ship in the game IMHO.
Liam Mirren 182	Posted - 2012.01.18 06:30:00 - [76] - Quote The Drake is too good, it needs some rebalancing. Having said that, all angels ships and some minmatar ships need balancing as well so if they work on the drake then I expect them to work on angel/minnie as well. If they don't touch stuff like Cynabals and Canes then they're thick as ****. Also, stating the Talos is underpowered is hilarious beyond words. Perhaps the CSM should do some more actual PVPing rather than Blobbing nonsense. If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right.
Count D00KU Inflamed Crusty Unit 23	Posted - 2012.01.18 06:31:00 - [77] - Quote wow, The only semi useable caldari pvp boat and now they are gonna nerf this too. I don't mind nerfing if a ship is too overpowered but since when is a drake overpowered. Caldari is already the laughing stock when it comes to pvp boats not really really is nothing left. You already killed of the only viable caldari pvp boats years ago rook/falcon. If you do this make sure in character creation you scrap option caldari to prevent newer players to choose this race. Ciao, Count
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 293	Posted - 2012.01.18 06:34:00 - [78] - Quote Kietay Ayari wrote: Do what ever you want to anything :3 Just don't touch my Tengu. You meant Ferox, right?
Super Chair Project Cerberus 110	Posted - 2012.01.18 06:39:00 - [79] - Quote Liam Mirren wrote: The Drake is too good, it needs some rebalancing. Having said that, all angels ships and some minmatar ships need balancing as well so if they work on the drake then I expect them to work on angel/minnie as well. If they don't touch stuff like Cynabals and Canes then they're thick as ****. Also, stating the Talos is underpowered is hilarious beyond words. Perhaps the CSM should do some more actual PVPing rather than Blobbing nonsense. If they nerfed the cynabal, maybe, just maybe i'd be ok with some some drake changes
Tear Miner Republic University Minmatar Republic 96	Posted - 2012.01.18 06:43:00 - [80] - Quote The OP doesn't care about PvP in his drake. He's just sad he won't be able to bot as efficiently.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 563	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:01:00 - [81] - Quote What people don't get is that drakes are very skill intensive to fly right. You need heavy navigation skills, heavy heavy shield comp skills, medium to heavy training on missiles. Multiple remaps many skills to buy. Those looking to nerf the drake think they are some magic bullet for newer players when the good ones you see in battle are those people spent month after month training. Do NOT nerf the drake!
Count D00KU Inflamed Crusty Unit 24	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:14:00 - [82] - Quote CCP has to stop looking at ships individual but has to start looking at the ships within the race total. When people start training they first stay within their race and at a later stage crosstrain. So doesn't matter if 1 or 2 ships within the race shine a bit harder and people gear towards that ship. Not really if there is a other ship that can counter it. If there is no counter then nerf it. Ciao
Shaalira D'arc Quantum Cats Syndicate 349	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:17:00 - [83] - Quote Count D00KU wrote: ... Shouldn't you be leading the Separatists?
ShipToaster 96	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:25:00 - [84] - Quote If CCP nerf the drake, tengu, and ecm boats, I want all the ***** SP I put into these back. The only contact I want to have with eve university is if I can have them all **** to death by space robo donkeys. Griefing CCP - Bounties for E-Uni Ganking: action continues. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=343354#post343354
Val MeR 100 gr. 4	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:41:00 - [85] - Quote Tear Miner wrote: The OP doesn't care about PvP in his drake. He's just sad he won't be able to bot as efficiently. Me, Sad? No. Tengu is a PVE boat... Drake for Caldari is one of the most used PVP ships... and a PVE ship for noobs. PS: ... and to cushion the nerf effects I crosstrain for other races, but I still like the Drake and I really hope Caldari will get proper balance, where its due... not just "lets nerf what ever they can still fly effectivley in pvp".
Marcus Harikari Aegis Requiem. 12	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:52:00 - [86] - Quote NOOOOOOOOOOOOO DONT NERF DRAKE OMG NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CRAP
Marcus Harikari Aegis Requiem. 12	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:53:00 - [87] - Quote Why not boost other ships...nerfing things that already exist is WRONG...technology doesn't move backwards!
DarkAegix Acetech Systems 807	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:53:00 - [88] - Quote ShipToaster wrote: If CCP nerf the drake, tengu, and ecm boats, I want all the ******* SP I put into these back. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubw5N8iVDHI
Super Chair Project Cerberus 110	Posted - 2012.01.18 07:54:00 - [89] - Quote If they give the drake a R.o.F bonus and a missile velocity bonus they will need to redefine the cerb and the sac's roles. Because as it stands they would be rendered expensive drakes (just like how the nighthawk is now).
St Mio Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 293	Posted - 2012.01.18 08:02:00 - [90] - Quote Val MeR wrote: Tear Miner wrote: The OP doesn't care about PvP in his drake. He's just sad he won't be able to bot as efficiently. Me, Sad? No. Tengu is a PVE boat... Drake for Caldari is one of the most used PVP ships... and a PVE ship for noobs. PS: ... and to cushion the nerf effects I crosstrain for other races, but I still like the Drake and I really hope Caldari will get proper balance, where its due... not just "lets nerf what ever they can still fly effectivley in pvp". Luckily you've never had the frustration of running into 100MN AB Tengu gangs

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