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Hershman
G-Weezy
142
   |
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:07:00 -
[91] - Quote
I know I'm a little late to this party but I'll go ahead and state my views. Perhaps they will shed light on a new perspective.
The shield regeneration algorithm for passive recharge rates is slightly overpowered. Slightly.
However, the same distinction is present in armor defenses with the potential amount of armor hp for some ships.
In a way, these two peaks balance out in the realm of passive defense tanking. Thus this divergence is not game breaking.
If anything the proper solution is to give a minuscule buff to active shield and armor defense tactics.
Though I'll say again, the difference in tactics is negligible and is not game breaking. |
Val MeR
100 gr.
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:21:00 -
[92] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Val MeR wrote:Tear Miner wrote:The OP doesn't care about PvP in his drake. He's just sad he won't be able to bot as efficiently. Me, Sad? No. Tengu is a PVE boat... Drake for Caldari is one of the most used PVP ships... and a PVE ship for noobs. PS: ... and to cushion the nerf effects I crosstrain for other races, but I still like the Drake and I really hope Caldari will get proper balance, where its due... not just "lets nerf what ever they can still fly effectivley in pvp". Luckily you've never had the frustration of running into 100MN AB Tengu gangs
If you say 100MN AB Tengu too many times, CCP or CSM might get the impression something isn't right here... :) and since I like my Tengus, I wouldn't want them to be next on the nerf list... I am still a Caldari and although I can fly other ships, I would prefer that my own race lineup is on par with others and not something just for collecting dust in stations. |
Marcus Harikari
Aegis Requiem.
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:32:00 -
[93] - Quote
Honestly, if you're going to nerf the drake, nerf the fact that missiles require no cap as opposed to every other type of weapon. It's not very realistic, at least a little bit of cap needs to be used to move the next missile in line to the barrel slot. |
Marcus Harikari
Aegis Requiem.
13
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:33:00 -
[94] - Quote
But like all these ships with 7 missile slots and 1 turret slot...or 6 turret slots and 1 missile slot, etc...WHO DESIGNED THEM? WHY??? they are so lolworthy |
Cyzlaki
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
200
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:33:00 -
[95] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:What people don't get is that drakes are very skill intensive to fly right.
You need heavy navigation skills, heavy heavy shield comp skills, medium to heavy training on missiles.
Multiple remaps many skills to buy. Those looking to nerf the drake think they are some magic bullet for newer players when the good ones you see in battle are those people spent month after month training.
Do NOT nerf the drake!
3 week old characters can fly drakes just fine  |
Val MeR
100 gr.
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:36:00 -
[96] - Quote
Cyzlaki wrote:3 week old characters can fly OVERPOWERED 170 DPS drakes just fine
Added for clarity...  |
St Mio
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
293
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:39:00 -
[97] - Quote
Marcus Harikari wrote:Honestly, if you're going to nerf the drake, nerf the fact that missiles require no cap as opposed to every other type of weapon. It's not very realistic, at least a little bit of cap needs to be used to move the next missile in line to the barrel slot.
Like projectiles? |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:49:00 -
[98] - Quote
Cyzlaki wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:What people don't get is that drakes are very skill intensive to fly right.
You need heavy navigation skills, heavy heavy shield comp skills, medium to heavy training on missiles.
Multiple remaps many skills to buy. Those looking to nerf the drake think they are some magic bullet for newer players when the good ones you see in battle are those people spent month after month training.
Do NOT nerf the drake! 3 week old characters can fly drakes just fine
Can fly POS drakes just fine. To fly them well takes ALOT of training. They do NOT need to be touched as they are VERY balanced for several roles depending on skills skills skills.
|
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 08:51:00 -
[99] - Quote
Hershman wrote:I know I'm a little late to this party but I'll go ahead and state my views. Perhaps they will shed light on a new perspective.
The shield regeneration algorithm for passive recharge rates is slightly overpowered. Slightly.
However, the same distinction is present in armor defenses with the potential amount of armor hp for some ships.
In a way, these two peaks balance out in the realm of passive defense tanking. Thus this divergence is not game breaking.
If anything the proper solution is to give a minuscule buff to active shield and armor defense tactics.
Though I'll say again, the difference in tactics is negligible and is not game breaking.
Not overpowered at all. It takes serious training to get good regen levels like it takes serious training to do other things in the game. They do NOT need to be changed. |
Val MeR
100 gr.
4
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:05:00 -
[100] - Quote
... and seriously who ever came up with the idea that Drakes are super fast to train for and fly?
I am too lazy to consider all respects of how long it takes to a) train for a racial BC, b) properly (well... by evemon standards) fly it with some recommended skills... so I will take an easy route and just make a plan in evemon for a noob Caldari (50 000 SP) char:
Drake
1) 4d, 20m, 55s
2) 100d, 15h, 57m, 26s
Hurricane
1) 4d, 1h, 55m, 2s
2) 82d, 6h, 24m
Harbinger
1) 4d, 1h, 55m, 2s
2) 80d, 20h, 22m, 10s
Harbinger
1) 4d, 1h, 55m, 2s
2) 71d, 12h, 21m, 40s |
Melangell
Ancient Motorboats
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:10:00 -
[101] - Quote
Sarmatiko wrote:It's about time to make Drake rebalance. It is ridiculously frustrating when FC tells to you: "Leave your Arty Cane on station and take Drake instead for another boring blobbing". Nerf Drake to the ground! 
it is impossible to 'like' this post enough.
despite owning several drakes I can't stand them - boring and uninspiring |
Melangell
Ancient Motorboats
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:15:00 -
[102] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:What people don't get is that drakes are very skill intensive to fly right.
You need heavy navigation skills, heavy heavy shield comp skills, medium to heavy training on missiles.
Multiple remaps many skills to buy. Those looking to nerf the drake think they are some magic bullet for newer players when the good ones you see in battle are those people spent month after month training.
Do NOT nerf the drake!
The problem is that it doesn't need that much in the way of skills to get going.
Things like the 'cane - you do have to have the skills or you are screwed - a noob drake still works (I know because I've just trained an alt straight into one for isk making purposes).
Personally I don't mind them being an easy PvE boat - I just want people to stop liking them for PvP fleets because they are so dull to fly (although they do make good 'bait' ships) |
SukaNaft
EveArena.COM
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:42:00 -
[103] - Quote
Just answer this question - if Drake is nerfed, what would you fly instead? NightHawk? ... or crosstrain to fly other races? |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:43:00 -
[104] - Quote
So dull to fly? Maybe for you. As a new drake pilot at the time I absolutely loved flying them. They are perfectly balanced to rise well from heavy skill dedication.
They need to be left alone. And considering the CSM wants the drake nuked from orbit I seriously question their views on the Naga as well. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:47:00 -
[105] - Quote
SukaNaft wrote:Just answer this question - if Drake is nerfed, what would you fly instead? NightHawk? ... or crosstrain to fly other races?
There is no IF. I am going to oppose the drake nerf and alot of people will do as well. I did not put in months of training to fly the Nighthawk. I put them into the Drake because it is the most balanced and fun ship in the game.
They do NOT need to be nerfed or changed. |
Mutnin
SQUIDS.
49
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:52:00 -
[106] - Quote
Nerf the Drake only when CCP finally give the Caldari something else useful to fly.
I'm trying to run a corp in Caldari Militia and recruit new players. The goal of this corp is to build a competent fighting force from the ground up starting with mostly new guys that we train. Being it's Caldari Militia we of course get mostly new Caldari pilots. When I sit down and try to create a skill plan for a a brand new Caldari pilot I'm stuck with a pretty big problem as someone whom is trying to run a range of compete gang types.
For a brand new pilot Caldari is a crap race for every ship except the Drake. You have to pick either Guns or missiles. So being the Drake is the best all around ship Caldari have for gangs I have to tell new guys to train missiles. Meanwhile their path is then set pretty much in stone for a limited time of ships they can fly. Kestral > Caracal > Drake.. (don't make me even mention Raven)
This means as a corp we are pretty much stuck with the Drake as our 1 useful ship. I can get new guys from a base char into a Drake that is fit "decent" but is useful in about 2 months. Yet that is really his only "useful" ship for gangs unless you go to faction frigs like say the Hookbill or a T2 frig like the Hawk.
I can't put them in Merlins, because while a Merlin can be an awesome frig, it takes a lot of skill points to fit it properly and dual weapon system. Kestrals? Well to fit them properly it again takes some pretty high fittings skills. Caracals? yea ok we have Caracals.. You really think a gang of Caracals is going to not die in fire to Ruptures, Stabbers, Thoraxs , Vexors or even freaking Omens?
Ok maybe they could kill Omens.. 
Meanwhile.. new Minmatar piliots have a very clear and useful path.. Rifter > Thrasher>Stabber or Rupture > Hurricane/ Cyclone/Tornado > Tempest, Mael or evena damn Phoon is semi useful as a gun ship.
Gallente while maybe not anyone's favorite race can go Incurus/Tristian >Cat> Thorax or Vexor > Myrm/ Brutix/ Talos > Mega, Dommi (people don't use Gal ships in gangs because most people are KM whores, but Gal ships rock in small gangs/solo)
Amarr get a little screwed on their T1's but once u get BC up they rock.
Punisher > Coercer> Omen/Maller > Proph/Harbi/Orcale > Apoc, baddon, geddon. (obviously Punisher isn't great nor is the Maller very outstanding)
Every race except Caldari has at the very least Semi useful T1 frigs/Dessies/Cruisers/BC & battles ships. for their main weapon system with out "HAVING" to cross train weapons to get something semi useful.
Caldari has the Drake for a useful gang ship as a Missile platform. Meanwhile anything else that is remotely useful in a gang environment for a Caldari piliot require cross training the guns. Once done they then get the Naga & Rokh.
Sure the Drake might be un balanced or maybe the Naga is pretty good, but when do the rest of the crap line up Caldari has, get rebalanced to be useful? Are we just supposed to fight frigs with Caracal if we want to run a Caldari Cruiser gang?
I will be straight up and say when I decided to take on a project of creating a new corp full of mostly noobs from FW, I seriously considered swapping to Minmatar, because it would have been 10 times easier. To get useful gangs with noobs in Rifters, Stabbers and Ruptures rather than having to train them pretty much straight to Drakes.
Yes lets Nerf Caldari because they need even less ships to fly.
I pretty much have to tell new guys that it might be best to side train Minmatar so they can fly Rifters, Thrashers & Ruptures because even with t1 guns they are better than the Kestral, Corm & Caracal. Insted we are stuck with Drakes that people whine about being OP.. |
Grukni
Shimai of New Eden
37
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 09:59:00 -
[107] - Quote
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Val MeR wrote:http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2011/CSM_CCP_Mettings_7-9_12_2011.pdf
It seems like CCP is favoring Minmatar, while CSM is made up of Gallente... well, of course its all made in the name of "balance", but see for yourself if you like those small changes:
GÇ£CCP and the CSM discussed the new Tier 3 battlecruisers. CCP noted that the Talos needs adjustment upwards; the CSM noted that the Naga is too powerful compared to the Talos. CCP acknowledged this, citing the difficulty of finding a role for blasters as well as the power of passive shield tanking.GÇ¥
Naga is overpowered? Power of passive shield tanking on a Naga?
GÇ£CCP and the CSM agreed that remote sensor dampeners have been rendered useless and need rebalancing. CCP wants to look into this, as well as the damping ships themselves. The CSM also discussed the merits (or lack thereof) of ECM.GÇ¥
Yeah, Caldari are unworthy of ECM magicGǪ
GÇ£The CSM and CCP both acknowledged the need to rebalance Drake, which GÇÿdoes everything too too wellGÇÖ. CCP is considering giving it a more offensive role like Raven or Caracal where it would lose the shield resistance bonus and the 5% Kinetic damage bonus and instead gain a rate of fire bonus and a missile velocity bonus. The CSM vehemently approved of this idea. CCP and the CSM also agreed that this possible change to the Drake would help add more uniqueness to the Nighthawk, which is presently overshadowed entirely by the Drake.GÇ¥
Nerf Drake, so it can become as GǣdesirableGǥ as Gǣoffensive Raven or CaracalGǥGǪ NightHawk will finally GǣshineGǥGǪ at least when compared to a NEW "offensive Drake." Whoa! Looks like they are not going into that "show Gallente some love and boost blasters" thing but are instead looking at the reason why a blaster boat cannot get within a proper range in the first place. Blasters will do heinous damage in the right range, got the loss mail to prove it, but a Gallente ship has a lot of trouble just getting there. Many times it's been said to put Gallente weapons on par with the others, but I always felt it's not the damage or the short range, it's not having superiority or some balance in resisting damage and webs. A ship that is going to have to go in closer, and do this with a bad traversal, is going to get a lot flak. OR... Would be nice to see Gallente ships be able to field 7 drones like the other races can field 7 of their signature weapon. Edit: if the want the nighthawk to get off the backburner, stop making them so damned fugly. Furthermore, as a drake pilot who crosstrained from Suck.... er... Gallente - a lot of Drakes used in missions are speed-tanked anyway.
why don't Gallente blaster boats get an afterburner bonus?
|
Kingwood
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
43
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:06:00 -
[108] - Quote
Ocih wrote:Ocih wrote:If I could survive the Artillery wall 50 km behind it, my Harbi would melt a Drake. Test server: 2012.01.18 03:07:00 Victim: Ioci Corp: Space Mermaids Alliance: Bad Girl Posse Faction: Unknown Destroyed: Drake System: X-R3NM Security: 0.0 Damage Taken: 30471 Involved parties: Name: Ocih (laid the final blow) Security: -0.10 Corp: Space Mermaids Alliance: Bad Girl Posse Faction: None Ship: Harbinger Weapon: Heavy Modulated Pulse Energy Beam I Damage Done: 30471 AB Harbi, triple trimark Buffer tank with 2 adaptives, no kin stack, no armor rep, I was at 13% armor when the drake popped. Full passive Drake with a rack of Arbalest launchers and Kin missles. -- Had it been a Cane I would have never hit it. They dictate optimal no matter how I fit.
Are you trolling. AB Harb with named pulses? Test server? I have no clue how you think that KM is relevant to anything, but you're welcome to enlighten me. I don't want to see both of your fits, tbh. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:12:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP you went and locked the other topic and yet wont respond in this topic?
Are we back to the days of Incarna CCP? Don't bother replying to topics that oppose your plans? |
Melangell
Ancient Motorboats
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:21:00 -
[110] - Quote
Mutnin wrote:
Yes lets Nerf Caldari because they need even less ships to fly. Why is the Drake so popular? Because it's the only damn useful PVP ship Caldari has out side ECM and smart bombing Rokhs. Fix the other Caldari ships if you want to see less Drakes.
I pretty much have to tell new guys that it might be best to side train Minmatar so they can fly Rifters, Thrashers & Ruptures because even with t1 guns they are better than the Kestral, Corm & Caracal. Insted we are stuck with Drakes that people whine about being OP..
ok - I agree with your take on that. You do see plenty of the specialised caldari about in fights but far less of the smaller general boats.
Perhaps the answer is to balance the whole a little rather than just focus on one ship |
Melangell
Ancient Motorboats
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:23:00 -
[111] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:CCP you went and locked the other topic and yet wont respond in this topic?
Are we back to the days of Incarna CCP? Don't bother replying to topics that oppose your plans?
the minutes went out yesterday. It was minutes of a *discussion* and not an actual plan that is going to happen.
They don't like duplicate threads
And perhaps they are interested in the thoughts of players rather than coming down from on high to make an announcement.
|
JC Anderson
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
158
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:40:00 -
[112] - Quote
St Mio wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Caldari has the 14 inch *****. Best ship in the game IMHO.
Indeed! Ferox for the win!
The last time I actually flew one was the day prior to the patch that added the Drake. :P (Same patch that added the Rokh... But lets not speak of that)
Not like we had any other choice in BC's at the time. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:41:00 -
[113] - Quote
When the CSM geenlights something as horrible as a Drake nerf. That is not something of minutes = nothing.
Why did they wait for the CSM to reveal their want of nuking the drake from orbit? Why not make a topic about it if they wanted our thoughts?
They need to talk to US the players not the CSM about such things. They need to say what they are thinking so we can discuss it. Otherwise we are back to the days of Incarna. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
178
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:42:00 -
[114] - Quote
The problem isn't the Drake, it's PVE and tier 2 BCs in general. Now, nobody really cares about PVE and Gurista-Drake balance, but let's pretend that they do. Fix this by giving BCs the shield recharge rates of BS. The PVP effect will be minimal.
Now to solve the problem of tier 2 BCs obsoleting tier 1s, cruisers and (to a considerable extent) close-range HACs, with the result that cruisers have no role and half the gangs that you see in space are tier 2 BC blobs. Fix this by cutting tier 2 BCs down to tier 1 levels; cutting their slots, HP and making the Hurricane in particular much harder to fit.
There, fixed. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:45:00 -
[115] - Quote
JC Anderson wrote:St Mio wrote:Marlona Sky wrote:Caldari has the 14 inch *****. Best ship in the game IMHO. Indeed! Ferox for the win! The last time I actually flew one was the day prior to the patch that added the Drake. :P (Same patch that added the Rokh... But lets not speak of that) Not like we had any other choice in BC's at the time.
The Ferox needs a new role. I support giving it a new role as a between T1 logi and T2 logi. 90 percent of the rep ability at full battlecruiser level V (A VERY long training run) That means that medium rails for caldari will remain useless but it atleast gives caldari something else to use in fleet operations. |
Endeavour Starfleet
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
564
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:46:00 -
[116] - Quote
Gypsio III wrote:The problem isn't the Drake, it's PVE and tier 2 BCs in general. Now, nobody really cares about PVE and Gurista-Drake balance, but let's pretend that they do. Fix this by giving BCs the shield recharge rates of BS. The PVP effect will be minimal.
Now to solve the problem of tier 2 BCs obsoleting tier 1s, cruisers and (to a considerable extent) close-range HACs, with the result that cruisers have no role and half the gangs that you see in space are tier 2 BC blobs. Fix this by cutting tier 2 BCs down to tier 1 levels; cutting their slots, HP and making the Hurricane in particular much harder to fit.
There, fixed.
As in Nuke half of EVE from orbit right?
Do not change the Drake! |
Lord Lewtz
AQUILA INC
0ccupational Hazzard
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:47:00 -
[117] - Quote
Soulpirate wrote:Balancing based on PvP is bad for ANY game BUT EVE. This is because EVE has no other game play.
fixed
|
Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
51
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:47:00 -
[118] - Quote
Melangell wrote:Endeavour Starfleet wrote:What people don't get is that drakes are very skill intensive to fly right.
You need heavy navigation skills, heavy heavy shield comp skills, medium to heavy training on missiles.
Multiple remaps many skills to buy. Those looking to nerf the drake think they are some magic bullet for newer players when the good ones you see in battle are those people spent month after month training.
Do NOT nerf the drake! The problem is that it doesn't need that much in the way of skills to get going. Things like the 'cane - you do have to have the skills or you are screwed - a noob drake still works (I know because I've just trained an alt straight into one for isk making purposes). Personally I don't mind them being an easy PvE boat - I just want people to stop liking them for PvP fleets because they are so dull to fly (although they do make good 'bait' ships)
So the ship should be nerfed because it is "boring" to fly? Fly something else?
Patri
Miners! Make Moar Isks Nao! |
Melangell
Ancient Motorboats
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:53:00 -
[119] - Quote
Endeavour Starfleet wrote:
Why did they wait for the CSM to reveal their want of nuking the drake from orbit? Why not make a topic about it if they wanted our thoughts?
.
why did they talk to the group whose job it is to represent the players views first rather than coming straight to the players?
nope you got me there. I can't see any reason a group designed to represent the players views would be consulted in this.
meantime in-between your entitled raging and my inconsequential cheering of changing a boat I am not a fan of for no other reason than that :- there is some really good well thought out commentary on this thread..... |
Melangell
Ancient Motorboats
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.18 10:59:00 -
[120] - Quote
Patri Andari wrote:
So the ship should be nerfed because it is "boring" to fly? Fly something else?
You have me wrong. I'm not saying it *should* be nerfed because *I* don't like it - I don't like it and am cheering on the nerf because of that.
Why do I fly it - for PvE it sadly is the *right* answer - everything else is less optimal and when you are trying to get some cash together for more things to get blown up then optimum is the way to go.
However because I *can* fly it there are situations I end up being compelled to fly it in fleets for PvP which accounts for my dislike because it's like fighting with a damp facecloth instead of a pointy stick. |
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