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An open letter to Kieron - LSAA's in Empire

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Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Matthew Removing the high-sec LSAA was the right thing to do. However I do acknowledge that the way it has been done leaves something to be desired. The handling of the infinite run BPC's should have been the model followed - ensure removal occurs, but in a manner that allows those dependant on them to make alternative arrangements. In this situation I would have given 4-6 weeks notice of the unanchoring, and mineral reimbursement on any jobs unifinished at the point of unanchoring. I believe the ones that had ships cooking in their LSAA's will get the ships spwaned in their hanger in low sec location of choice. If so there isn't any great loss apart from the ability to keep build in high sec. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Cornucopian Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:47:00 - [32] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Kaaii whine, moan, ***, rant, cry QUICK! Someone call 911 we need a wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance!! omfg.... I nearly ed myself.... HILARIOUS!!!! ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by:** Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Cornucopian Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Kaaii whine, moan, ***, rant, cry QUICK! Someone call 911 we need a wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance!! omfg.... I nearly ed myself.... HILARIOUS!!!! Yeah this has to be the most pathetic whine I have ever read. Caldari and proud**
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:16:00 - [34] I seem to be casting pearls before swine... My basic point is that CCP at the highest level has lost more integrity from what little they had/have left. Forget that I/others lost our ability, fine. Ive had greater setbacks. Forget the equality issues, eve is not, nor has ever been equal, among its player base... Say what you are going do, and do what you say.....thats all I'm asking. "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Cornucopian Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:21:00 - [35] Originally by: Kaaii I seem to be casting pearls before swine... My basic point is that CCP at the highest level has lost more integrity from what little they had/have left. Forget that I/others lost our ability, fine. Ive had greater setbacks. Forget the equality issues, eve is not, nor has ever been equal, among its player base... Say what you are going do, and do what you say.....thats all I'm asking. dude, its their game, they dont owe you anything. never mind what some dev said a year ago. they deem it to be unbalanced/crap/sad/unnecessary right now, so they revoke it. sad, but well within their rights. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Kaaii I seem to be casting pearls before swine... Stop being such a conceited arse. If you're arguing a specific point, then argue it, don't cloud it with a whine about your supposed nerf. Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Kaaii I seem to be casting pearls before swine... My basic point is that CCP at the highest level has lost more integrity from what little they had/have left. Forget that I/others lost our ability, fine. Ive had greater setbacks. Forget the equality issues, eve is not, nor has ever been equal, among its player base... Say what you are going do, and do what you say.....thats all I'm asking. You dont deserve your sig, it should be 'im little spoiled crybaby thats used to getting it both ways'. CCP is Godzilla you are Japan. STFU. Caldari and proud
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:30:00 - [38] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Kaaii I seem to be casting pearls before swine... Stop being such a conceited arse. If you're arguing a specific point, then argue it, don't cloud it with a whine about your supposed nerf. I'm sorry you feel this hits home... I've stated my case, my disappointment at the lack of continuity of Kierons words.. And you have contributed by bumping my post...thanks... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Kaaii I'm sorry you feel this hits home... I'm sorry you lost an unfair advantage and feel you need to whine on the forums about it. Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:37:00 - [40] This sort of thing shouldn't happen without notice. Especially considering CCP staff said they were there to stay. Which they didn't have to, but when they did, the polite thing (if you want to change it, which they have every right to do) is to notify people you are going to, so they can at least prepare. One forum post / patch note / whatever saying 'We're changing it, sorry.' would have sufficed and would've been the polite thing to do considering it was said they'll keep them in high-sec. Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:39:00 - [41] What is rather funny is that in Chribba's thread, every person that answered has the opposite opinion. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Cpt Branko This sort of thing shouldn't happen without notice. Especially considering CCP staff said they were there to stay. Which they didn't have to, but when they did, the polite thing (if you want to change it, which they have every right to do) is to notify people you are going to, so they can at least prepare. One forum post / patch note / whatever saying 'We're changing it, sorry.' would have sufficed and would've been the polite thing to do considering it was said they'll keep them in high-sec. Thank you for reading the words to what i was saying...at least theres someone out there more intent on the greater message, than there post count... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:43:00 - [43] So then being able to build capital ships with almost no risk isn't an advantage? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Gaven Blands Going out on a common limb here, but are we to assume that BoB's alt corps no longer have a need for highsec arrays? "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Terror Rising Death Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:45:00 - [45] The issue here is not that it was done. We have no issue with that. The issue that we have is HOW it was done. No warning so that items could be removed and plans put in place. No date set.. Nothing. Just a GM email AFTER the event, and after they had trapped billions of isk in an unanchored structure with no warning. I have no issue with LSAA's of ours being taken down. Just that it was handled in a very unprofessional way. Period.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:46:00 - [46] CCP should know by now they can't just implement a big change without a clear notification weeks ahead since it causes severe logistic nightmares for those involved (mineral contracts and what not). I kinda hoped they would have figured it out after the announcement of removing mineral compression. But ohwell... And to those calling this whining if you would invest in something and there would be a promise it wouldn't be removed you would be ****ed of just as well (and rightfully so). Also the comparison to t2 BPO's is fair, when LSAA's where introduced they where intended to use in empire as well. If you claim that it's fair that they have been unanchored because you don't have the possibility to do so now then all T2 BPO's ought to be removed as well sicne they aren't given out anymore (same as the unique ships given out sofar like the opux cruiseliner, all the rewards from the tournaments and guardion vexors etc.). Really all you guys are doing WHUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE he's got something I can't have WHAAAAAAAAA take it away CCP TAKE IT AWAY CRYCRYCRY. While the OP on the other hand has a clear and well written post requesting clarification. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Ghaelsto Kakram	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:52:00 - [47] Originally by: William Alex That's not the point. The point is that if CCP Staff tell you something's ok, then do something like this how much can you trust their rulings in the future? Simple. You don't. To OP. Can I have your sheep?
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather What is rather funny is that in Chribba's thread, every person that answered has the opposite opinion. Thats because people love Chribba on account of him NOT being a whiny crybaby. Caldari and proud
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:06:00 - [49] This should have been done the day you couldn't anchor them anymore. The real question is why it took this long.
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:12:00 - [50] FFS. Get off the man's back. He's not arguing that he should be allowed to anchor more structures. All he's asking for is a warning the next time a GM decides to go back on his word. If you put yourself in his place, every single one of you would come to the forums and do the exact same thing, albeit with more usage of "hax0rz!!11!!" or "spl0itz!!!!32@". To the OP: I'm sorry this had to happen. I hope you can be reimbursed for your hard work. ---------------
EliteSlave Minmatar Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:16:00 - [51] This is rediculous, why have the LSAA's we want them back! or atleast a valid reason as to why they were taken out of system with 0 warning.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:16:00 - [52] OK, so from this topic I can gather a few things. 1: As this isnt Chribba, everyone calls the OP a whiner. if it WAS chribba no-one would say so and most will agree. 2: Despite the fact that he never denied it was a slight advantage, you all go on as if he claims that it was comparable to a lowsec LSAA. He doesn't, he claims that the same principles except 1 effect it in a war and thats that the POS is hard to take down. The supplies can still be royaly ******. 3: HIS POINT WAS that CCP should have informed people about this change. So you're all jealouse that he had an LSAA, NO ONE CARES. He doesnt care about the fact he has one, he cares about the idea of "WHAT ELSE HAS CCP CHANGED WITHOUT INFORMING ANYONE!?" Added caps and Bold so you smacktards can read it. And yes, this is my main. ______________________________ A Request About Lag Discussion -- Yet another "Edit my sig devs!" request \o/
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:18:00 - [53] Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 14:25:06 Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 14:24:01 Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Ares Lightfeather What is rather funny is that in Chribba's thread, every person that answered has the opposite opinion. Thats because people love Chribba on account of him NOT being a whiny crybaby. this Now lets consider for a moment, your favorite ship, the one you love to gank in. Now lets say you have maybe 10B worth of them, or prints, or minerals to build them, lots of customers too Now lets say you log in one afternoon, and you can't build them anymore, or, they don't have the same stats, or number of slots, or resists. And you wouldn't be first on the forums asking Kieron why there was no announcement? I see that your only attempt here in this thread is to call me names and assume im crying over something i lost. But, as you have apparently failed to comprehend the bigger picture, its not about me. Or chribba, or any of the other "losers" in this scenario. You see, its about what was said, and what was done. Which were opposites. As you fail to attach the greater message to the thread and only post attacking flames, I can only suggest you read into the post, and continue bumping it, so that a future poster with more cognitive value can spell it out for you...using smaller words.. thanks for reading (and the bump) Kaaii /edit Im including the actual post, as it seems clear you didn't read the thread, and therfore missed/unable to use the quick link /edit2 - Bolded for the reading impaired.. Originally by: KaaiiIm really interested in what you all plan to do with large ship asm arrays that are already anchored in 05+ systems. Can you give any details? According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. The restriction is on the anchoring of new LSAA's. I apologize for the lack of final determination on the status of bookmarks, the Database Admins are still determining what direction is best needed to take. Patch notes have been updated with some clarifications, specifically regarding the ore processing skills and jump clones. The updates are in green. kieron Director of Community Relations, EVE Online EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang Look Ma, I'm in a Dev thread! Oh wait... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Ashaz Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather What is rather funny is that in Chribba's thread, every person that answered has the opposite opinion. My thoughts exactly. ;) The big issue here, IMHO has nothing to do with caps in highsec, but with the total lack of comunication from GMs who had previously agreed to leave them there. Fine, they changed a policy. But they should atleast have given them fair warning about it to let them re-locate. What happened to any materials that were cooking in the station? Don't they usualy go "poof" when the station is offlined? __________________________________ Gallente by birth. Amarr by choice. iDrone
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:21:00 - [55] Edited by: Dez Erichs on 04/09/2007 14:23:22 Kieron's post, circa November 27, 2006: Originally by: kieron Originally by: Kaaii Im really interested in what you all plan to do with large ship asm arrays that are already anchored in 05+ systems. Can you give any details? According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. The restriction is on the anchoring of new LSAA's. I apologize for the lack of final determination on the status of bookmarks, the Database Admins are still determining what direction is best needed to take. Patch notes have been updated with some clarifications, specifically regarding the ore processing skills and jump clones. The updates are in green. kieron Director of Community Relations, EVE Online This looks like something that kieron dashed off to address your question. I don't see any promises or guarantees that they would be able to stay 9 months in the future. The production of high-sec Rorquals brought this problem to a head; noone should be able to use Rorquals in high-sec with impunity. This is consistent with Eve's risk vs reward scheme. In the event of the (highy unlikely) chance that there was noone who produced high-sec Rorquals, the GMs would not have had to move them all to lowsec. However, someone found a flaw in game mechanics and exploited it. The GM's response to remove Rorquals from high-sec and offline LSAAs is a fair and balanced response to their problem. They found a hole and fixed it. It's certainly too bad that your LSAA had to be offlined, but the GM's cannot pick favorites. My analysis of the situation is that you (and other LSAA owners), are seeking to curry favour with kieron in order to get your LSAAs back. Kieron didn't promise you anything, and the GMs cannot pick favourites. Honestly, you are better off blaming those who were building high-sec Rorquals, and spoiling it for you. In conclusion: "I'm sorry to hear about your production problems, son / I got 99 problems and an LSAA isn't one" --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com "I <3 XxAngelxX" ;)
ALPHA12125 Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:24:00 - [56] am i the only one that noticed that kieron is not a developer ? even if he tells you that you can doomsday in jita, he doesnt make any gamedesicions. what he told you was true a year ago. the developers retought their position and decided against it simple as that. you might argue that they could have mentioned it in the patchlogs but thats about it.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:26:00 - [57] Originally by: Dez Erichs some stuff about highsec rorquals they were told to jump all highsec capitals into lowsec upon production. This includes rorquals. The onyl reason chribba has veldnaught is because it was there before the patch. ______________________________ A Request About Lag Discussion -- Yet another "Edit my sig devs!" request \o/
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Theo Samaritan Originally by: Dez Erichs some stuff about highsec rorquals they were told to jump all highsec capitals into lowsec upon production. This includes rorquals. The onyl reason chribba has veldnaught is because it was there before the patch. True. May I direct you to this thread: [Auction] Rorqual in 0.6 High-sec Rorquals are an exploit, and this is a response to close the hole. Ask yourself, if you were a GM, would you deal with every person who tried to build a high-sec Rorqual on a one-on-one basis, or would you get rid of the exploit? They cannot 'trust' people to move them to lowsec anymore, without creating a lot of work for themselves. WWGMD? --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com "I <3 XxAngelxX" ;)
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:37:00 - [59] I kinda agree that the problem is how it was handled. But, seriously, stop bashing the OP for saying the exact same Chribba has in another thread (and he was praised for it). Well, unless you think that Chribba is a "whiny crybaby", since he did complain about the exact same thing. Start discussing the issue: how it was (badly) handled, and not 'OMG I lost my isk printing machine', which doesn't matter since any corp capable of building cap ships regularly will be able to adapt. However, letting them plan this change would have been a show of respect from CCP to them. Not that it matter much now. The only conclusion that can be drawn for now is that anytime what you were doing "legally" and that was confirmed to be an unremovable feature of the game could be removed to oblivion without even so much as a warning, or an excuse, while stupid forum trolls bash the person speaking about it. And that is what I can't accept. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:41:00 - [60] Finally some action by CCP that corrects what is clearly the kind of game-breaking imbalance that drives away new players. I don't care what the advantage is that you "royalist" beta players believe you are entitled to by virtue of your inception date... IT SHOULD BE REMOVED IF IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME! This should include removing the T2 BPOs as well. There should be no "special" abilities or resources available to any "exclusive" group of players. Any other policy would be the same as playing poker where the dealer has a stack of aces up his sleeve. BRAVO CCP.

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