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An open letter to Kieron - LSAA's in Empire

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Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:34:00 - [1] Greets I'm writing in behalf of the half a dozen or so previous owners of LSAA's (Large Ship assembly arrays) that were abruptly removed (unanchored ) in high sec, Empire space. As you probably are aware, Chribba, myself, and several other corporations have been quietly building cap ships in Empire, with the strictest of guidelines to jump them out once completed, as requested, and confirmed in various GM conversations in the past. I would like to know why in this post you specifically addressed our concerns when the nerf was announced back in December. In it you are plainly stating that those in empire would stay And now, much to our surprise, our LSAA's are suddenly offlined and unanchored, with no warning, no advance posting of the likes, "we are thinking about doing this", nothing. Forgetting for the moment that the amount of logistics that are currently in place to support corps working these, being in place, with huge sums of money tied up in equipment, minerals on hand, in one stroke you see fit to cripple, selectively a very small portion of an unobtrusive industry base. Will future "guarantees" by you (and your staff) have an undisclosed expiration date as well, because if so, id like to know. Maybe you could post every time you make a promise you don't intend to honor, so we as the paying customer base, can take it for what its really worth...... Kaaii "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:36:00 - [2] Why do you think you should continue to benefit from something that other corporations and individuals have no chance of doing? Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Waxau Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:39:00 - [3] I very much so agree with the OP - If there are guidelines as to moving capitals out, the only harm is that they're secure from hostiles. Which lets face it...the corps that own (owned) them were pure carebears ^^ No offence chribba I say let them keep them. Theyve done no harm in the past, and technically its direct GM interaction with the market :P
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:39:00 - [4] Originally by: Ray McCormack Why do you think you should continue to benefit from something that other corporations and individuals have no chance of doing? Every corporation with a char with one character with anchoring lvl 3 from 2003, to 11/27200 6 had the exact same chance of doing. Failing to recognize your own ability is not a problem of mine... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:43:00 - [5] Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Ray McCormack Why do you think you should continue to benefit from something that other corporations and individuals have no chance of doing? Every corporation with a char with one character with anchoring lvl 3 from 2003, to 11/27200 6 had the exact same chance of doing. Failing to recognize your own ability is not a problem of mine... grats on the most selfish post today... wtb anchored LSAA for players who joined after 11/27/2006 snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:44:00 - [6] Originally by: Kaaii Every corporation with a char with one character with anchoring lvl 3 from 2003, to 11/27200 6 had the exact same chance of doing. Failing to recognize your own ability is not a problem of mine... That's not even a logical argument. You could, the ability was stopped. Your arrays have been removed in a long overdue move. Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:44:00 - [7] Originally by: Waxau I very much so agree with the OP - If there are guidelines as to moving capitals out, the only harm is that they're secure from hostiles. Which lets face it...the corps that own (owned) them were pure carebears ^^ No offence chribba I say let them keep them. Theyve done no harm in the past, and technically its direct GM interaction with the market :P And yes, there were strict guidelines. I was petitioned once for mine. Someone felt as the above poster, was not fair. but, after lengthy mails and convos with a senior GM who consulted the very thread linked, they honored the statement made in the post. In short we were told we werre not allowed to keep them in high sec, only build and jump out. No using them for defense, logistics or any form that constitutes "exploit" I was told it was a bannable offense, which I have honored since the incident.... Kaaii "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Ifni Applied Eugenics	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:47:00 - [8] The fact of the matter is that you were building Capital ships with what essentially amounted to immunity. Since you can't field Capital ships in highsec, it would take a huge force of Battleships to down a large POS with said LSAA anchored at it. The rules changed, you should be glad you had so long to build them when all newcomers to the market had to deal with harsher environments and logistics problems by hauling all the materials out to low sec. You take what is offered. And that must sometimes be enough.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:48:00 - [9] Originally by: Kaaii In short we were told we werre not allowed to keep them in high sec, only build and jump out. No using them for defense, logistics or any form that constitutes "exploit" I was told it was a bannable offense, which I have honored since the incident.... That is fair enough, and someone owes you some clarification on why the decision has been changed. But you cannot expect to have continued building ships this way relatively risk free while all other producers have to face the risks of production in low-sec. It is an unfair advantage not open to everyone (ie, they have no conceivable method of gaining the same advantage). Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:48:00 - [10] Originally by: Frances Ducoir Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Ray McCormack Why do you think you should continue to benefit from something that other corporations and individuals have no chance of doing? Every corporation with a char with one character with anchoring lvl 3 from 2003, to 11/27200 6 had the exact same chance of doing. Failing to recognize your own ability is not a problem of mine... grats on the most selfish post today... wtb anchored LSAA for players who joined after 11/27/2006 Shall we award skill points too? I mean everyone starting after 11/27/06 is clearly at a disadvantage... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:53:00 - [11] Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 11:55:24 Originally by: Ifni The fact of the matter is that you were building Capital ships with what essentially amounted to immunity. Since you can't field Capital ships in highsec, it would take a huge force of Battleships to down a large POS with said LSAA anchored at it. The rules changed, you should be glad you had so long to build them when all newcomers to the market had to deal with harsher environments and logistics problems by hauling all the materials out to low sec. I think pos were introduced long before dreads and carriers though. In doing so, the pos's then were taken down, albeit a lengthy and boring process (and costly) it was not "impossible". Just took an extreme amount of desire to do so. And yes, I'm glad we did have the time we had. But I think most are missing the bigger picture. Its the "we said this" go ahead and spend billions setting up your industry, and infostructure, but we didn't mean it... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:55:00 - [12] Going out on a common limb here, but are we to assume that BoB's alt corps no longer have a need for highsec arrays?
Frances Ducoir Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion	Posted - 2007.09.04 11:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Kaaii Shall we award skill points too? I mean everyone starting after 11/27/06 is clearly at a disadvantage... of course, but they can keep up when they specialize and gather numbers. but they werent able to anchor the LSAA... be glad you still have the t2 BPOs you might own (if you have any). thats another thing which newer players will never be able to reach. honestly, who would sell them ever, except a few rare ppl who quit the game. (and who could afford to buy these rare ones?) snip Signiture remoted because it contained profanity - hutch
Ladyah Liandri A GmbH	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Frances Ducoir Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Ray McCormack Why do you think you should continue to benefit from something that other corporations and individuals have no chance of doing? Every corporation with a char with one character with anchoring lvl 3 from 2003, to 11/27200 6 had the exact same chance of doing. Failing to recognize your own ability is not a problem of mine... grats on the most selfish post today... wtb anchored LSAA for players who joined after 11/27/2006 Shall we award skill points too? I mean everyone starting after 11/27/06 is clearly at a disadvantage... Sorry you failed to see the point twice. If I started say January 1st, 2007 and skilled anchoring level 3 I'd never be able to have a high-sec LSAA.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:04:00 - [15] Originally by: Gaven Blands Going out on a common limb here, but are we to assume that BoB's alt corps no longer have a need for highsec arrays? My main says your alt looses.. Save your tin hat for CAOD. "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:09:00 - [16] Originally by: Ladyah Liandri Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Frances Ducoir Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Ray McCormack Why do you think you should continue to benefit from something that other corporations and individuals have no chance of doing? Every corporation with a char with one character with anchoring lvl 3 from 2003, to 11/27200 6 had the exact same chance of doing. Failing to recognize your own ability is not a problem of mine... grats on the most selfish post today... wtb anchored LSAA for players who joined after 11/27/2006 Shall we award skill points too? I mean everyone starting after 11/27/06 is clearly at a disadvantage... Sorry you failed to see the point twice. If I started say January 1st, 2007 and skilled anchoring level 3 I'd never be able to have a high-sec LSAA. No I don't. you never be able to have T2 bpo either, as pointed out above You would not be able to own mine bpos (unless you bought them) You would'nt have secure cans anchored in hi sec Or kestrels with cruse missle launchers et etc etc Theres no equaling the playing field for those starting the game later. No game provides this for any newer player base, and how could they. Whats done in the past stays there...unless its an lsaa... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Cersin Der blutige Pfad Gottes	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:11:00 - [17] Well it was about time for this. Thinking about my removal out of my beloved Caldari Navy Corp a few months back, the statement from CCPs side was that joining this NPC Corp was never intended and isnt possible any more ... so about the same thing with all those Caps in highsec and the LSAA. Removing of old mistakes from CCPs side is a good thing (kinda) as long as all mistakes get addressed and not only a few. So i vote for all hig sec capital ships to get removed from there too. OR leave it as it was ( YES PUT ME BACK INTO MY BELOVED CALDARI NAVY!!!) But by fixing SOME of the mistakes which were made and leaving others unaddressed is in my opinion just plain stupid. Either all or nothing!
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:15:00 - [18] Originally by: Kaaii My main says your alt looses.. Save your tin hat for CAOD. Thanks for the sentiment. Careful chief, I hear that your second alt's 3rd petcorp's is undercutting the price on Hulks of your 4th main's 3rd pierate alt's highsec slave corp. Pay more attention to the bookkeeping. And there's a shuttle in your nbsi space. Launch the Vagabonds.
William Alex Viscosity	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:19:00 - [19] The issue here isn't that the OP had a competitive advantage. I think that's clear enough for everyone to see. I'm also not of the mindset that the OP should have continued to enjoy a competitive advantage, however what I do believe is that if the OP along with the others who did possess LSAA were guaranteed by CCP Staff that they would be able to operate the arrays, then why was their ability to operate it taken away without warning? It seems a foresight to me, as I persontally don't belive that CCP is "Out to get us all" but it still should have been preceded with some kind of warning. Please give us a 1 depth skill queue CCP.
Sorted High Sec Liberators	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:19:00 - [20] Edited by: Sorted on 04/09/2007 12:23:06 LSAA's in highsec. I didnt have chance to deploy them and I couldnt get them unless it was a corporate take over. While we are balancing fairness: T2 BPOS- I'll never "earn" one (unless I steal it or buy it from a current owner). So I would have an unfair disadvantage in the market - I'd have to invent to compete meh - unfair - remove them. I wasn't here when CCP did the lottery. Rare Faction Ships (Gaurdian Vexor for example) - Same as above - not gonna get my hands on one by the orgional means. Meh - ufair. I wasnt playing when they were handed out. Remove them. and Skill points, Whats that about? that guy has an advantage over me as he started playing before me. Even it out pls CCP. Eve isnt about fairness, its all about advantages and foresight. (and numbers) Maybe theres a very good and as yet undisclosed reason those LSAA's should of been removed, but the owners should of had a warning. As far as I can see the owners where following the guidlines set out by CCP after they changed the game (again) - and its the LSAA owners who have been shafted by yet another change in heart by CCP. EDIT: With all the changes to eve recently, some that have altered things which have been in the game for many years it seems to me like there is a drunk monkey in the driving seat. Maybe he's on loan from SOE?
Mashie Saldana Hooligans Of War	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:20:00 - [21] Originally by: Ifni The fact of the matter is that you were building Capital ships with what essentially amounted to immunity. Since you can't field Capital ships in highsec, it would take a huge force of Battleships to down a large POS with said LSAA anchored at it. Not to mention up until the patch in June you couldn't even attack a highsec POS without getting concorded regardless of wardec. So that's 6 months of 100% riskfree capship manufacturing that the LSAA owners has enjoyed. Just be happy CCP didn't unanchor them back in November. Light Assault Launchers & Defender FoF ideas
William Alex Viscosity	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:22:00 - [22] I think you are all missing the big picture here. Everyone can see that the OP had an advantage that was unfair and NO one seems to be sad that it was taken away. That's not the point. The point is that if CCP Staff tell you something's ok, then do something like this how much can you trust their rulings in the future? Please give us a 1 depth skill queue CCP.
Level4 Minmatar Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:25:00 - [23] So how many rorqual's were beeing build ? :) join channel "Profit".
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:26:00 - [24] Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 12:26:49 Originally by: Level4 So how many rorqual's were beeing build ? :) 2 "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Kaaii Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 11:55:24 Originally by: Ifni The fact of the matter is that you were building Capital ships with what essentially amounted to immunity. Since you can't field Capital ships in highsec, it would take a huge force of Battleships to down a large POS with said LSAA anchored at it. The rules changed, you should be glad you had so long to build them when all newcomers to the market had to deal with harsher environments and logistics problems by hauling all the materials out to low sec. I think pos were introduced long before dreads and carriers though. In doing so, the pos's then were taken down, albeit a lengthy and boring process (and costly) it was not "impossible". Just took an extreme amount of desire to do so. And yes, I'm glad we did have the time we had. But I think most are missing the bigger picture. Its the "we said this" go ahead and spend billions setting up your industry, and infostructure, but we didn't mean it... Yes, be happy about what you got out of it while it lasted. You did benefit from flaw in the game mechancis. We was never supposed to build capital ships in high sec. CCP should have removed this ability as soon as they changed the ability to use LSAA's in high sec, but they didn't and some (like you) did benefit from this. Imho there wasn't really any problem before the Rorqual did enter the arena. When you see on the WTS forum people sell/acution these and use high sec as a selling argument, it will create waves. Also chewing out these ships at a 10 day phase at a high sec pos with no risk, compared to do it in low sec, or longer at a station factory in low sec, isn't exactly fair. EVE isn't about being fair, but at least everyone should have the same chances to do things based on current game mechancis. Be happy with what you gained of have the LSAA for the time it lasted, and adapt to the ways other cap builders who haven't had a LSAA in high sec does. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Fenella Caldari Dangermouse Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:31:00 - [26] Next logical step will be to expel all current capital ships from high sec. Don't mind them being there personally, but wouldn't surprise me to see it happen soon.
Frug Zenithal Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:31:00 - [27] They should have warned you ahead of time. You should not get special privileges though. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Mashie Saldana Originally by: Ifni The fact of the matter is that you were building Capital ships with what essentially amounted to immunity. Since you can't field Capital ships in highsec, it would take a huge force of Battleships to down a large POS with said LSAA anchored at it. Not to mention up until the patch in June you couldn't even attack a highsec POS without getting concorded regardless of wardec. So that's 6 months of 100% riskfree capship manufacturing that the LSAA owners has enjoyed. Just be happy CCP didn't unanchor them back in November. A somewhat valid point. It was not however 100% risk free. For those that think outside the box, a war dec would have crippled the abilty to load said lsaa. Consider for a moment the number of componets that we had to load. Up until just recently it could only be done by agonisely slow multiple run with indys,, even with rigs carrying a max of 4 componets at a time. Divide 200+ by that. A war dec would not have put the structure at risk but certainly a steady stream of indys, undocking and docking for hours would put these assets at risk, no? Then freighters were given the ability to dock with pos structures, about 3 months ago, or less. So in effect upping the risk of a war dec, and loosing a freigther with 90+ componets in it. Hardly risk free........ "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Cornucopian Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:38:00 - [29] Originally by: Kaaii moan moan moan rabble rabble whine whin whinge whinge...sissy fit. Dude, you had something unique, that was outside of normal game rules. now you dont. your char is now effectively legal again. rejoice. stop whining. Chribba should still get his rorqual though. /flame off ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Matthew Caldari BloodStar Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:42:00 - [30] Originally by: Kaaii you never be able to have T2 bpo either, as pointed out above The restricted nature of T2 BPO's were part of their design. That does not apply to LSAAs. Originally by: Kaaii You would not be able to own mine bpos (unless you bought them) Of course, there is zero in-game benefit of owning bpos to an item that no longer does anything. So unless you particualrly wanted your LSAA to be given the "snowball launcher" treatment... Originally by: Kaaii You would'nt have secure cans anchored in hi sec I assume here you only mean 0.8+, rather than all of high-sec. These really should all have gone long ago. Though I suspect LSAA churning out streams of capital ships would be further up the balance priority list than a pile of cans of limited usefulness. Originally by: Kaaii Or kestrels with cruse missle launchers I believe the GM's will spank you mightily if you actually use one though. Originally by: Kaaii Theres no equaling the playing field for those starting the game later. No game provides this for any newer player base, and how could they. Whats done in the past stays there...unless its an lsaa... Or an infinite run blueprint copy. Removing the high-sec LSAA was the right thing to do. However I do acknowledge that the way it has been done leaves something to be desired. The handling of the infinite run BPC's should have been the model followed - ensure removal occurs, but in a manner that allows those dependant on them to make alternative arrangements. In this situation I would have given 4-6 weeks notice of the unanchoring, and mineral reimbursement on any jobs unifinished at the point of unanchoring. ------- There is no magic Wand of Fixing, and it is not powered by forum whines.
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:47:00 - [31] Originally by: Matthew Removing the high-sec LSAA was the right thing to do. However I do acknowledge that the way it has been done leaves something to be desired. The handling of the infinite run BPC's should have been the model followed - ensure removal occurs, but in a manner that allows those dependant on them to make alternative arrangements. In this situation I would have given 4-6 weeks notice of the unanchoring, and mineral reimbursement on any jobs unifinished at the point of unanchoring. I believe the ones that had ships cooking in their LSAA's will get the ships spwaned in their hanger in low sec location of choice. If so there isn't any great loss apart from the ability to keep build in high sec. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Cornucopian Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:47:00 - [32] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Kaaii whine, moan, ***, rant, cry QUICK! Someone call 911 we need a wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance!! omfg.... I nearly ed myself.... HILARIOUS!!!! ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by:** Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.04 12:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Cornucopian Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Kaaii whine, moan, ***, rant, cry QUICK! Someone call 911 we need a wuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuaaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance!! omfg.... I nearly ed myself.... HILARIOUS!!!! Yeah this has to be the most pathetic whine I have ever read. Caldari and proud**
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:16:00 - [34] I seem to be casting pearls before swine... My basic point is that CCP at the highest level has lost more integrity from what little they had/have left. Forget that I/others lost our ability, fine. Ive had greater setbacks. Forget the equality issues, eve is not, nor has ever been equal, among its player base... Say what you are going do, and do what you say.....thats all I'm asking. "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Cornucopian Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:21:00 - [35] Originally by: Kaaii I seem to be casting pearls before swine... My basic point is that CCP at the highest level has lost more integrity from what little they had/have left. Forget that I/others lost our ability, fine. Ive had greater setbacks. Forget the equality issues, eve is not, nor has ever been equal, among its player base... Say what you are going do, and do what you say.....thats all I'm asking. dude, its their game, they dont owe you anything. never mind what some dev said a year ago. they deem it to be unbalanced/crap/sad/unnecessary right now, so they revoke it. sad, but well within their rights. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Kaaii I seem to be casting pearls before swine... Stop being such a conceited arse. If you're arguing a specific point, then argue it, don't cloud it with a whine about your supposed nerf. Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:28:00 - [37] Originally by: Kaaii I seem to be casting pearls before swine... My basic point is that CCP at the highest level has lost more integrity from what little they had/have left. Forget that I/others lost our ability, fine. Ive had greater setbacks. Forget the equality issues, eve is not, nor has ever been equal, among its player base... Say what you are going do, and do what you say.....thats all I'm asking. You dont deserve your sig, it should be 'im little spoiled crybaby thats used to getting it both ways'. CCP is Godzilla you are Japan. STFU. Caldari and proud
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:30:00 - [38] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Kaaii I seem to be casting pearls before swine... Stop being such a conceited arse. If you're arguing a specific point, then argue it, don't cloud it with a whine about your supposed nerf. I'm sorry you feel this hits home... I've stated my case, my disappointment at the lack of continuity of Kierons words.. And you have contributed by bumping my post...thanks... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Kaaii I'm sorry you feel this hits home... I'm sorry you lost an unfair advantage and feel you need to whine on the forums about it. Proud steward of more public ISK than Motivated Prophet. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans.
Cpt Branko The Bloody Red	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:37:00 - [40] This sort of thing shouldn't happen without notice. Especially considering CCP staff said they were there to stay. Which they didn't have to, but when they did, the polite thing (if you want to change it, which they have every right to do) is to notify people you are going to, so they can at least prepare. One forum post / patch note / whatever saying 'We're changing it, sorry.' would have sufficed and would've been the polite thing to do considering it was said they'll keep them in high-sec. Originally by: Tsanse Kinske The second you start equating time spent playing a game with lost time and money is the second you need to ask yourself "Why am I playing?". Seriously
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:39:00 - [41] What is rather funny is that in Chribba's thread, every person that answered has the opposite opinion. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:41:00 - [42] Originally by: Cpt Branko This sort of thing shouldn't happen without notice. Especially considering CCP staff said they were there to stay. Which they didn't have to, but when they did, the polite thing (if you want to change it, which they have every right to do) is to notify people you are going to, so they can at least prepare. One forum post / patch note / whatever saying 'We're changing it, sorry.' would have sufficed and would've been the polite thing to do considering it was said they'll keep them in high-sec. Thank you for reading the words to what i was saying...at least theres someone out there more intent on the greater message, than there post count... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
An Anarchyyt Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:43:00 - [43] So then being able to build capital ships with almost no risk isn't an advantage? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:44:00 - [44] Originally by: Gaven Blands Going out on a common limb here, but are we to assume that BoB's alt corps no longer have a need for highsec arrays? "If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor." -Albert Einstein
Terror Rising Death Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:45:00 - [45] The issue here is not that it was done. We have no issue with that. The issue that we have is HOW it was done. No warning so that items could be removed and plans put in place. No date set.. Nothing. Just a GM email AFTER the event, and after they had trapped billions of isk in an unanchored structure with no warning. I have no issue with LSAA's of ours being taken down. Just that it was handled in a very unprofessional way. Period.
Shevar Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:46:00 - [46] CCP should know by now they can't just implement a big change without a clear notification weeks ahead since it causes severe logistic nightmares for those involved (mineral contracts and what not). I kinda hoped they would have figured it out after the announcement of removing mineral compression. But ohwell... And to those calling this whining if you would invest in something and there would be a promise it wouldn't be removed you would be ****ed of just as well (and rightfully so). Also the comparison to t2 BPO's is fair, when LSAA's where introduced they where intended to use in empire as well. If you claim that it's fair that they have been unanchored because you don't have the possibility to do so now then all T2 BPO's ought to be removed as well sicne they aren't given out anymore (same as the unique ships given out sofar like the opux cruiseliner, all the rewards from the tournaments and guardion vexors etc.). Really all you guys are doing WHUUUUUAAAAAAAAAAMBULANCE he's got something I can't have WHAAAAAAAAA take it away CCP TAKE IT AWAY CRYCRYCRY. While the OP on the other hand has a clear and well written post requesting clarification. --- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
Ghaelsto Kakram	Posted - 2007.09.04 13:52:00 - [47] Originally by: William Alex That's not the point. The point is that if CCP Staff tell you something's ok, then do something like this how much can you trust their rulings in the future? Simple. You don't. To OP. Can I have your sheep?
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:02:00 - [48] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather What is rather funny is that in Chribba's thread, every person that answered has the opposite opinion. Thats because people love Chribba on account of him NOT being a whiny crybaby. Caldari and proud
Admiral Nova Strike Team Nova	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:06:00 - [49] This should have been done the day you couldn't anchor them anymore. The real question is why it took this long.
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:12:00 - [50] FFS. Get off the man's back. He's not arguing that he should be allowed to anchor more structures. All he's asking for is a warning the next time a GM decides to go back on his word. If you put yourself in his place, every single one of you would come to the forums and do the exact same thing, albeit with more usage of "hax0rz!!11!!" or "spl0itz!!!!32@". To the OP: I'm sorry this had to happen. I hope you can be reimbursed for your hard work. ---------------
EliteSlave Minmatar Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:16:00 - [51] This is rediculous, why have the LSAA's we want them back! or atleast a valid reason as to why they were taken out of system with 0 warning.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:16:00 - [52] OK, so from this topic I can gather a few things. 1: As this isnt Chribba, everyone calls the OP a whiner. if it WAS chribba no-one would say so and most will agree. 2: Despite the fact that he never denied it was a slight advantage, you all go on as if he claims that it was comparable to a lowsec LSAA. He doesn't, he claims that the same principles except 1 effect it in a war and thats that the POS is hard to take down. The supplies can still be royaly ******. 3: HIS POINT WAS that CCP should have informed people about this change. So you're all jealouse that he had an LSAA, NO ONE CARES. He doesnt care about the fact he has one, he cares about the idea of "WHAT ELSE HAS CCP CHANGED WITHOUT INFORMING ANYONE!?" Added caps and Bold so you smacktards can read it. And yes, this is my main. ______________________________ A Request About Lag Discussion -- Yet another "Edit my sig devs!" request \o/
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:18:00 - [53] Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 14:25:06 Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 14:24:01 Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Ares Lightfeather What is rather funny is that in Chribba's thread, every person that answered has the opposite opinion. Thats because people love Chribba on account of him NOT being a whiny crybaby. this Now lets consider for a moment, your favorite ship, the one you love to gank in. Now lets say you have maybe 10B worth of them, or prints, or minerals to build them, lots of customers too Now lets say you log in one afternoon, and you can't build them anymore, or, they don't have the same stats, or number of slots, or resists. And you wouldn't be first on the forums asking Kieron why there was no announcement? I see that your only attempt here in this thread is to call me names and assume im crying over something i lost. But, as you have apparently failed to comprehend the bigger picture, its not about me. Or chribba, or any of the other "losers" in this scenario. You see, its about what was said, and what was done. Which were opposites. As you fail to attach the greater message to the thread and only post attacking flames, I can only suggest you read into the post, and continue bumping it, so that a future poster with more cognitive value can spell it out for you...using smaller words.. thanks for reading (and the bump) Kaaii /edit Im including the actual post, as it seems clear you didn't read the thread, and therfore missed/unable to use the quick link /edit2 - Bolded for the reading impaired.. Originally by: KaaiiIm really interested in what you all plan to do with large ship asm arrays that are already anchored in 05+ systems. Can you give any details? According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. The restriction is on the anchoring of new LSAA's. I apologize for the lack of final determination on the status of bookmarks, the Database Admins are still determining what direction is best needed to take. Patch notes have been updated with some clarifications, specifically regarding the ore processing skills and jump clones. The updates are in green. kieron Director of Community Relations, EVE Online EVE Online, CCP Games Email/Netfang Look Ma, I'm in a Dev thread! Oh wait... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Ashaz Mindstar Technology United Confederation of Corporations	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:20:00 - [54] Originally by: Ares Lightfeather What is rather funny is that in Chribba's thread, every person that answered has the opposite opinion. My thoughts exactly. ;) The big issue here, IMHO has nothing to do with caps in highsec, but with the total lack of comunication from GMs who had previously agreed to leave them there. Fine, they changed a policy. But they should atleast have given them fair warning about it to let them re-locate. What happened to any materials that were cooking in the station? Don't they usualy go "poof" when the station is offlined? __________________________________ Gallente by birth. Amarr by choice. iDrone
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:21:00 - [55] Edited by: Dez Erichs on 04/09/2007 14:23:22 Kieron's post, circa November 27, 2006: Originally by: kieron Originally by: Kaaii Im really interested in what you all plan to do with large ship asm arrays that are already anchored in 05+ systems. Can you give any details? According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. The restriction is on the anchoring of new LSAA's. I apologize for the lack of final determination on the status of bookmarks, the Database Admins are still determining what direction is best needed to take. Patch notes have been updated with some clarifications, specifically regarding the ore processing skills and jump clones. The updates are in green. kieron Director of Community Relations, EVE Online This looks like something that kieron dashed off to address your question. I don't see any promises or guarantees that they would be able to stay 9 months in the future. The production of high-sec Rorquals brought this problem to a head; noone should be able to use Rorquals in high-sec with impunity. This is consistent with Eve's risk vs reward scheme. In the event of the (highy unlikely) chance that there was noone who produced high-sec Rorquals, the GMs would not have had to move them all to lowsec. However, someone found a flaw in game mechanics and exploited it. The GM's response to remove Rorquals from high-sec and offline LSAAs is a fair and balanced response to their problem. They found a hole and fixed it. It's certainly too bad that your LSAA had to be offlined, but the GM's cannot pick favorites. My analysis of the situation is that you (and other LSAA owners), are seeking to curry favour with kieron in order to get your LSAAs back. Kieron didn't promise you anything, and the GMs cannot pick favourites. Honestly, you are better off blaming those who were building high-sec Rorquals, and spoiling it for you. In conclusion: "I'm sorry to hear about your production problems, son / I got 99 problems and an LSAA isn't one" --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com "I <3 XxAngelxX" ;)
ALPHA12125 Gallente 0utbreak	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:24:00 - [56] am i the only one that noticed that kieron is not a developer ? even if he tells you that you can doomsday in jita, he doesnt make any gamedesicions. what he told you was true a year ago. the developers retought their position and decided against it simple as that. you might argue that they could have mentioned it in the patchlogs but thats about it.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:26:00 - [57] Originally by: Dez Erichs some stuff about highsec rorquals they were told to jump all highsec capitals into lowsec upon production. This includes rorquals. The onyl reason chribba has veldnaught is because it was there before the patch. ______________________________ A Request About Lag Discussion -- Yet another "Edit my sig devs!" request \o/
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:36:00 - [58] Originally by: Theo Samaritan Originally by: Dez Erichs some stuff about highsec rorquals they were told to jump all highsec capitals into lowsec upon production. This includes rorquals. The onyl reason chribba has veldnaught is because it was there before the patch. True. May I direct you to this thread: [Auction] Rorqual in 0.6 High-sec Rorquals are an exploit, and this is a response to close the hole. Ask yourself, if you were a GM, would you deal with every person who tried to build a high-sec Rorqual on a one-on-one basis, or would you get rid of the exploit? They cannot 'trust' people to move them to lowsec anymore, without creating a lot of work for themselves. WWGMD? --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com "I <3 XxAngelxX" ;)
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:37:00 - [59] I kinda agree that the problem is how it was handled. But, seriously, stop bashing the OP for saying the exact same Chribba has in another thread (and he was praised for it). Well, unless you think that Chribba is a "whiny crybaby", since he did complain about the exact same thing. Start discussing the issue: how it was (badly) handled, and not 'OMG I lost my isk printing machine', which doesn't matter since any corp capable of building cap ships regularly will be able to adapt. However, letting them plan this change would have been a show of respect from CCP to them. Not that it matter much now. The only conclusion that can be drawn for now is that anytime what you were doing "legally" and that was confirmed to be an unremovable feature of the game could be removed to oblivion without even so much as a warning, or an excuse, while stupid forum trolls bash the person speaking about it. And that is what I can't accept. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:41:00 - [60] Finally some action by CCP that corrects what is clearly the kind of game-breaking imbalance that drives away new players. I don't care what the advantage is that you "royalist" beta players believe you are entitled to by virtue of your inception date... IT SHOULD BE REMOVED IF IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME! This should include removing the T2 BPOs as well. There should be no "special" abilities or resources available to any "exclusive" group of players. Any other policy would be the same as playing poker where the dealer has a stack of aces up his sleeve. BRAVO CCP.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:43:00 - [61] Originally by: Dez Erichs Originally by: Theo Samaritan Originally by: Dez Erichs some stuff about highsec rorquals they were told to jump all highsec capitals into lowsec upon production. This includes rorquals. The onyl reason chribba has veldnaught is because it was there before the patch. True. May I direct you to this thread: [Auction] Rorqual in 0.6 High-sec Rorquals are an exploit, and this is a response to close the hole. Ask yourself, if you were a GM, would you deal with every person who tried to build a high-sec Rorqual on a one-on-one basis, or would you get rid of the exploit? They cannot 'trust' people to move them to lowsec anymore, without creating a lot of work for themselves. WWGMD? I'd do it one by one, because thats a break of the deal made between the owners of highsec LSAA's and the GM's. Interesting that its a goon's work as well ______________________________ A Request About Lag Discussion -- Yet another "Edit my sig devs!" request \o/
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:49:00 - [62] Originally by: Gaven Blands Real good stuff. and thank you for caring enough to post. Nerfs come and go, this was one. Yes, I'm a little perturbed but not for the reasons you post. Its safe to say that while I, and my corp mates(and the other corps that had them) have suffered an inconvenience, its not the end of the world for us. You're free to disagree, post all you like. The open letter did mean open. I expected many would perceive this as some whiny carebear lost a toy. And i posted anyway, because I know that there are more than a few like minded souls who see the bigger picture. I can take a few whaaa posters, in my thread, so that others may stop and think about "what is allowed to stay" really means, and plan accordingly.. "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:52:00 - [63] Just reading all this jazz about stuff being pulled out now,, when at the end of the day they were all regardless of how many, even if everyone, obeyed the rules, located outside of what current game mechanics were about. Is this breaking the trust of a few players who were "privelidged" enough to secure the LSAAs, or is it an active attempt by CCP to distance themselves from days-gone-by accusations of favoritism, corruption etc? I'd almost be inclined to say it's the latter, and also say it's a good move. Improve Market Competition!
Wloire Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:56:00 - [64] Edited by: Wloire on 04/09/2007 14:59:23 Edited by: Wloire on 04/09/2007 14:57:23 Originally by: Gaven Blands Can't the Kaaii understand? If you want to talk to Kieron, talk to Kieron. It's probably [email protected] or something. If you post an open letter, you have to ask why you did it. The answer is because you want us all to read it. So understand that people may disagree, and write an open letter right back at you. I know you won't, but get over it. Few care that your little power trippy niche club has been nerfed. Few care that you're crying about it. Few care that you think you're better than us. Condascend all you like. This time the nerfbat hit you, and like so many others before, you cried. You're not new, not big, and not clever. You are a sheep like those that came before, and those that will come after. You are in good company. Many a forum hero has turned all whiney when his favourite toy gets nerfed. Honestly do you think any of the GM's accept personal emails from none-Bobbits? Jokes aside, when has the OP once actually whined about losing their LSAA? Their point of this thread is to question the way in which they were removed. Iv never personaly taken part in capital production but I can certainly understand the logistics and the ISK that go into the things. Now imagine all that planning goes "poof". The OP's comparison to your favourite gank ship being nerfed was on the dot. You would be the first person up in arms if you lost 5 cpu but if its someone else who cares? Originally by: I like caplocks! Finally some action by CCP that corrects what is clearly the kind of game-breaking imbalance that drives away new players. I don't care what the advantage is that you "royalist" beta players believe you are entitled to by virtue of your inception date... IT SHOULD BE REMOVED IF IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME! This should include removing the T2 BPOs as well. There should be no "special" abilities or resources available to any "exclusive" group of players. Any other policy would be the same as playing poker where the dealer has a stack of aces up his sleeve. BRAVO CCP. Should all the beta players who have put more time into this game then yourself also lose all their skillpoints points aswell? No new player will ever reach an equal skillpoint count as a beta character who continues to play the game? Gamebreaking? Im sure before you saw this thread as a way of showing off your highschool education and "Mad Caps Lock skillz" you didnt give two seconds of thought to highsec LSAA's. *edit: I wish I could spell
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.09.04 14:56:00 - [65] Originally by: Kaaii Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 12:26:49 Originally by: Level4 So how many rorqual's were beeing build ? :) 2 Kaaii, you need to change your sig tag line from that reference to lions and sheep to "I'd rather play poker with aces up my sleeve because I really don't know how to play poker and can't win otherwise."
Sazkyen	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:11:00 - [66] Edited by: Sazkyen on 04/09/2007 15:12:02 If there can be people in-game who are allowed to own TII BPOs while others have no chance to get them then why the HECK not leave these guys have their assembly arrays in peace in empire space?
Ghost Goat	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:20:00 - [67] it should have been done long time ago , i wonder why it took so long . off course they should have give notice few days or weeks ahead , but i believe CCP probably realized how many Rorquals going to hit high sec in the next month/months ,and decided to act now, in order to avoid seriously unbalanced issues later on . i fully support these actions , next step , remove t2 original bpo's , and remove ALL cap ships from high sec .
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:22:00 - [68] Edited by: Ira Theos on 04/09/2007 15:28:45 Edited by: Ira Theos on 04/09/2007 15:28:17 Edited by: Ira Theos on 04/09/2007 15:27:25 Edited by: Ira Theos on 04/09/2007 15:25:21 Responding to Wloire stuff,, then.... Originally by: I like caplocks! Finally some action by CCP that corrects what is clearly the kind of game-breaking imbalance that drives away new players. I don't care what the advantage is that you "royalist" beta players believe you are entitled to by virtue of your inception date... IT SHOULD BE REMOVED IF IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME! This should include removing the T2 BPOs as well. There should be no "special" abilities or resources available to any "exclusive" group of players. Any other policy would be the same as playing poker where the dealer has a stack of aces up his sleeve. BRAVO CCP. Should all the beta players who have put more time into this game then yourself also lose all their skillpoints points aswell? No new player will ever reach an equal skillpoint count as a beta character who continues to play the game? Gamebreaking? Im sure before you saw this thread as a way of showing off your highschool education and "Mad Caps Lock skillz" you didnt give two seconds of thought to highsec LSAA's. *edit: I wish I could spell OK... Since you didn't use your third-grade reading skills to read what I said.... I SAID THINGS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME should be removed. Skills are accomplishable within the normal mechanics...... but then, that subtle concept of balance is beyond your intelligence to comprehend apparently. P.S. CAPS ARE NECESSARY FOR IDIOTS LIKE YOU WHO CAN"T READ.
Kylar Renpurs Dusk Blade	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:31:00 - [69] Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 04/09/2007 15:31:04 Originally by: Ira Theos P.S. CAPS ARE NECESSARY FOR IDIOTS LIKE YHO CAN"T READ.. And obviously for those who can't spell or use proper grammar either You'd probably have a point worth paying attention to if you didn't sound like a whiny nutcase. Improve Market Competition!
Ares Lightfeather Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:32:00 - [70] Edited by: Ares Lightfeather on 04/09/2007 15:32:30 Originally by: Ira Theos OK... Since you didn't use your third-grade reading skills to read what I said.... I SAID THINGS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME should be removed. Skills are accomplishable within the normal mechanics...... but then, that subtle concept of balance is beyond your intelligence to comprehend apparently. P.S. CAPS ARE NECESSARY FOR IDIOTS LIKE YOU WHO CAN"T READ. Ok, then. READ THE OP, THEY SAID THAT THE CONCERN WAS THAT THEY REMOVED THAT WITHOUT WARNING. KKTHXBAI And for people that can read : well, you've read the OP. I do not need to repeat it. -- Siggie ! Come back here ! -- Originally by: Victor Valka Originally by: MotherMoon well a drone UI is a bit of an artist job Drone AI is obviously done by an artist too. One that is heavily into abstract
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:34:00 - [71] Originally by: Ira Theos Edited by: Ira Theos on 04/09/2007 15:25:21 Responding to Wloire stuff,, then.... Originally by: I like caplocks! Finally some action by CCP that corrects what is clearly the kind of game-breaking imbalance that drives away new players. I don't care what the advantage is that you "royalist" beta players believe you are entitled to by virtue of your inception date... IT SHOULD BE REMOVED IF IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME! This should include removing the T2 BPOs as well. There should be no "special" abilities or resources available to any "exclusive" group of players. Any other policy would be the same as playing poker where the dealer has a stack of aces up his sleeve. BRAVO CCP. Should all the beta players who have put more time into this game then yourself also lose all their skillpoints points aswell? No new player will ever reach an equal skillpoint count as a beta character who continues to play the game? Gamebreaking? Im sure before you saw this thread as a way of showing off your highschool education and "Mad Caps Lock skillz" you didnt give two seconds of thought to highsec LSAA's. *edit: I wish I could spell OK... Since you didn't use your third-grade reading skills to read what I said.... I SAID THINGS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME should be removed. Skills are accomplishable within the normal mechanics...... but then, that subtle concept of balance is beyond your intelligence to comprehend apparently. While i can appreciate you sentiment, one could argue that new players can't build titans, therefore should titans be removed? Or just balanced that any new player can achieve their dream ship. While stating that the "normal mechanics of the game" are the issue you have with these structures let me point your attention to the links and text above, indicating kierons post on the subject. They were allowed to stay. This to me, indicates normal mechanics. i'm just asking that if they say that they are going to do it (something) that they do. Its not a far reach to think about the ramifications of their actions, how they effect player stratagems and planning, should they announce XXX is now not ok in YYYY. The real issue is, why not give advance notice, allow players the courtesy of a simple notification, so they make take actions that mitigate their imposing change. Oh and post with your main... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:37:00 - [72] you fail at reading Kaaii he said Quote: within normal game mechanics a new player can build a titan within normal game mechanics, just not right away, just like a new player can build t2 items within normal game mchanics, even without a bpo Why there should be a breathalyzer to login to Eve-Forums: Quote: Smacking my own alt in a nerf-thread while drunk, he was irritating a Hauler full of tech II n00bs, Oops.
Wloire Macabre Votum INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:38:00 - [73] Originally by: Ira Theos Edited by: Ira Theos on 04/09/2007 15:25:21 Responding to Wloire stuff,, then.... Originally by: I like caplocks! Finally some action by CCP that corrects what is clearly the kind of game-breaking imbalance that drives away new players. I don't care what the advantage is that you "royalist" beta players believe you are entitled to by virtue of your inception date... IT SHOULD BE REMOVED IF IT IS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME! This should include removing the T2 BPOs as well. There should be no "special" abilities or resources available to any "exclusive" group of players. Any other policy would be the same as playing poker where the dealer has a stack of aces up his sleeve. BRAVO CCP. Should all the beta players who have put more time into this game then yourself also lose all their skillpoints points aswell? No new player will ever reach an equal skillpoint count as a beta character who continues to play the game? Gamebreaking? Im sure before you saw this thread as a way of showing off your highschool education and "Mad Caps Lock skillz" you didnt give two seconds of thought to highsec LSAA's. *edit: I wish I could spell OK... Since you didn't use your third-grade reading skills to read what I said.... I SAID THINGS NOT AVAILABLE TO BE ACCOMPLISHED BY A NEW PLAYER WITHIN THE NORMAL MECHANICS OF THE GAME should be removed. Skills are accomplishable within the normal mechanics...... but then, that subtle concept of balance is beyond your intelligence to comprehend apparently. Oh geez theres the caplocks again. You'll notice I mentioned they'll never reach a beta players skillcount? They play for 3 years their not going to have the count of someone who has kept on playing for 6 years. They will never reach SOMEONE else who has played since beta. Hence the beta player will always have superior skills (most likely)leading to this beta player also winning 10 out of 10 battles with said new player. Hence gamebreaking because said new player will never win. Hence it is impossible hence every person has has been playing since before september 4th 2007 should have there skillpoints lowered to 1 million or whatever new players start with these days. Once again I thank for another lesson in the apropriate use of caplocks to get your point across. Try to read future posts in full before responding. Oh and good job forming a new post with your original reply to this one, we all need two places to read about your inferiority problem and how it will be fixed by everyone being equal and getting there fair share. Kind of like introducing a level cap! Then we can all be even. p.s.: Hence.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:39:00 - [74] yes i did fail, thanks...i stand corrected..ignore the titan part "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Ira Theos	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:40:00 - [75] Originally by: Kylar Renpurs Edited by: Kylar Renpurs on 04/09/2007 15:31:04 Originally by: Ira Theos P.S. CAPS ARE NECESSARY FOR IDIOTS LIKE YHO CAN"T READ.. And obviously for those who can't spell or use proper grammar either You'd probably have a point worth paying attention to if you didn't sound like a whiny nutcase. ******************** You are right.... I am very testy these days about this kind of crap. And getting hot under the collar does detrimentally affect my ability to touch type, especially on an old wireless keyboard... But after nearly two years of playing Eve, I am sick and tired of continually finding my view of this potentially excellent and great game being destroyed by the constant discovery that the game is rigged. It is high time to un-rig it.
Dez Erichs Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:48:00 - [76] To Kaaii: Please address my arguments, we are having a discussion, aren't we? --- PvP Training: www.agony-unleashed.com "I <3 XxAngelxX" ;)
Aira Phlux Furian Technologies	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:50:00 - [77] I read the first page but 2 and 3 were beyond my attention span. For what its worth, I think yes they should have been removed but not without warning. The least CCP can do to apologise is give the affected players the end product of the jobs that were in progress. No I'm not an alt, no I didn't have one on order, no I don't know these people. -------------------------------------------- The most common phrase on the Eve-O forum of late is: "Oh the irony". It is usually being used to describe hypocrisy which is in itself, ironic.
Bentula	Posted - 2007.09.04 15:59:00 - [78] Originally by: Ira Theos But after nearly two years of playing Eve, I am sick and tired of continually finding my view of this potentially excellent and great game being destroyed by the constant discovery that the game is rigged. It is high time to un-rig it. Oh please, rigged is going a bit far. I mean building caps in highsec sounds like a great plan, but at the end of the day its not of much use if you have to jump it out after compeltion. CCPs decision to let those highsec LSAAs fade out slowly(they do dwindle in numbers since no new can be put up) is fully in line with how this is usually handled. And since you afaik cant put guns at a highsec pos, and that concord bug got fixed, those highsec pos/LSAAs hardly where immune, if chribba and other people having these big toys in highsec bothers you so much how about you wardec them? P.S. You wardec chribba and you might find yourself in trouble.
Reverend Revelator Elite Storm Enterprises Storm Armada	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:00:00 - [79] If this isn't a Nelson Muntz moment then I don't what is... -- Dead People Laugh At The Murder Of Love --
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:11:00 - [80] I think it was a fair move tbh. Those select few were able to build capitals without worry of attack that low-sec would bring (both POS and logistics). I am with Ray in that I believe it should have been done by default the second it was made unavailable to have them in empire. Those select few have been able to profit without risk whilst the rest of us have had to dart around lowsec to build our ships, running the risk of losing billions of isk worth of logistics at the drop of a hat. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ruffio Sepico Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:19:00 - [81] Originally by: Aira Phlux I read the first page but 2 and 3 were beyond my attention span. For what its worth, I think yes they should have been removed but not without warning. The least CCP can do to apologise is give the affected players the end product of the jobs that were in progress. No I'm not an alt, no I didn't have one on order, no I don't know these people. They wont lose what is being built, they will recieve it on completion just in low sec system of their choice. They just lose the ability to keep build in high sec. It swing both ways with CCP. I recall quite some time back after a patch where they ejected a lot of capital jobs where the builder got all parts for the job back + the completed product as well. Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:19:00 - [82] Originally by: Dez Erichs Edited by: Dez Erichs on 04/09/2007 14:23:22 Kieron's post, circa November 27, 2006: Originally by: kieron Originally by: Kaaii Im really interested in what you all plan to do with large ship asm arrays that are already anchored in 05+ systems. Can you give any details? According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. The restriction is on the anchoring of new LSAA's. I apologize for the lack of final determination on the status of bookmarks, the Database Admins are still determining what direction is best needed to take. Patch notes have been updated with some clarifications, specifically regarding the ore processing skills and jump clones. The updates are in green. kieron Director of Community Relations, EVE Online This looks like something that kieron dashed off to address your question. I don't see any promises or guarantees that they would be able to stay 9 months in the future. The production of high-sec Rorquals brought this problem to a head; noone should be able to use Rorquals in high-sec with impunity. This is consistent with Eve's risk vs reward scheme. In the event of the (highy unlikely) chance that there was noone who produced high-sec Rorquals, the GMs would not have had to move them all to lowsec. However, someone found a flaw in game mechanics and exploited it. The GM's response to remove Rorquals from high-sec and offline LSAAs is a fair and balanced response to their problem. They found a hole and fixed it. It's certainly too bad that your LSAA had to be offlined, but the GM's cannot pick favorites. My analysis of the situation is that you (and other LSAA owners), are seeking to curry favour with kieron in order to get your LSAAs back. Kieron didn't promise you anything, and the GMs cannot pick favourites. Honestly, you are better off blaming those who were building high-sec Rorquals, and spoiling it for you. In conclusion: "I'm sorry to hear about your production problems, son / I got 99 problems and an LSAA isn't one" Certainly, here you go... While i can't be certain as to Kierons intentions on the day he posted, I agree in principle there were no promises made. I read all his posts though with an implied authority that I perceive he has(?). If he doesn't have the authority to make these calls, or needs to check with someone first before making them, i think that should be indicated somewhere in his posts. So, assuming that he indeed has weigth to post on subjects like this, I and others in the community have to assume hes talking about something he knows to be true. Doesn't everyone that reads his stuff? As far as the rorquals, being in empire, while I have no information on any exploits pending, I don't deny that there ae many out there who spend hours dreaming up ways to gt around "the system". When i built my carrier "there", i tested to see wheather or not fighters could be launched, attached, and assigned targets. They could not. As it was my intention to jump it out anyway (was in Fatal alliance at the time), in fountain, one carrier in high sec didn't really suit anyones benefit. I asked a gm if it was allowed to stay, to say, boost my shields on pos or flight, I got a resounding NO, and if caught doing it, would be grounds for a ban. This was enough for me to say my 4 years in eve wasn't worth risking being banned for an upper hand in one fight... And im not really blmming anyone for the demise of empire LSAA's they were out there, for almost 11 months. No one got banned for having them, and to my knowledge, no one broke the "jump them out" rule but i may be mistaken here. I have no illusions about the fate of the production, its gone, it won't be coming back. Nothing said here will make any difference on their existence. But maybe, just maybe, ccp will see this, and say, "man, we jus screwed up on another issue" and hopefully some good will come from it... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Setana Manoro Gallente Firefly Inc.	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:21:00 - [83] Originally by: Frances Ducoir Originally by: Kaaii Shall we award skill points too? I mean everyone starting after 11/27/06 is clearly at a disadvantage... of course, but they can keep up when they specialize and gather numbers. but they werent able to anchor the LSAA... be glad you still have the t2 BPOs you might own (if you have any). thats another thing which newer players will never be able to reach. honestly, who would sell them ever, except a few rare ppl who quit the game. (and who could afford to buy these rare ones?) A bpo for a low-end t2 mod, is around 2-3b ISK. Which you can make in under 4 weeks in 0.0 with a 1 month old caldari alt, who many have. I'm not neutral in RAGOON vs BOB, I just dislike both sides. :)
Sethir Corranis	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:22:00 - [84] While i understand your dilema (e.g. we spent a ton of isk to have this) i have to disagree with the premis that you have been cheated in some way or that ccp has "gone back on their word". basically you were told one thing by one government official (CCP whom ever) and aonther higher ranked government official (Uber Gm whom ever) came along and shut you down. this is business and life isn't fair and all that stuff that you already know. atleast you weren't declared property of the state. based on the agreement you had with ccp petition to recover some of your losses and see what happens, just do it quietly posting like this in public only weakens your overall position. just my .02 isk worth.
voogru Gallente Massive Damage	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:26:00 - [85] Originally by: Kaaii A somewhat valid point. It was not however 100% risk free. For those that think outside the box, a war dec would have crippled the abilty to load said lsaa. Consider for a moment the number of componets that we had to load. Up until just recently it could only be done by agonisely slow multiple run with indys,, even with rigs carrying a max of 4 componets at a time. Divide 200+ by that. A war dec would not have put the structure at risk but certainly a steady stream of indys, undocking and docking for hours would put these assets at risk, no? Then freighters were given the ability to dock with pos structures, about 3 months ago, or less. So in effect upping the risk of a war dec, and loosing a freigther with 90+ componets in it. Hardly risk free........ hahahaha 1. Password POS FF 2. Have indy alt in NPC corp bring components to POS. 3. Have corp member in shuttle go to POS. 4. Indy alt jettisons stuff 5. Corp member safe in POS transfers stuff. Don't make me laugh. You were building cap ships in high sec 100% risk free. You had a competitive advantage over other players because they need to have a low sec POS which can get attacked easily. Even now that POS's can be attacked, it's a PITA to do it with battleships. I'm dangerous! Watch out!
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:28:00 - [86] Originally by: Sethir Corranis While i understand your dilema (e.g. we spent a ton of isk to have this) i have to disagree with the premis that you have been cheated in some way or that ccp has "gone back on their word". basically you were told one thing by one government official (CCP whom ever) and aonther higher ranked government official (Uber Gm whom ever) came along and shut you down. this is business and life isn't fair and all that stuff that you already know. atleast you weren't declared property of the state. based on the agreement you had with ccp petition to recover some of your losses and see what happens, just do it quietly posting like this in public only weakens your overall position. just my .02 isk worth. I think you misread several points i made. Kieron posted it was ok. A gm later in Jan came to me and first said, it wasn't, but after reading the post i linked said (agreed with kieron) ok np it can stay. im just asking for Kieron to come forth, put his best game face on, and explain why this happened (this way) and explain why it won't be happening (this way) again.... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:33:00 - [87] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/09/2007 16:39:18 To me this phrase: Quote: According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. The restriction is on the anchoring of new LSAA's. in the context of the relevant thread mean "The LSAA will stay there for now (current patch). No guarantte for the future." A warning in advance of the change would have been opportune and courteous, but probably someone at CCP noticed the building of Rorquals in high sec and decided that there should be no chance that one of those would be completed in high sec, as the thinhatter brigade would have published screenshot of any such istance screaming "favorithism, cheatin, BoD" and so on. Seeing the existence of a auction for a hi-sec Rorqual with delivery for the 6 september (after completation of other 2), a fast reaction was needed.
Amaron Ghant Caldari b00's Crew	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:35:00 - [88] Interesting thread. The OP had a good run for his money so no sympathy from me, however to be fair a quick evemail before the bailiffs were sent in might have been nice. Nice though not obligatory.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:36:00 - [89] In regards to the mail from Kieron, anyone could find some old dev blogs that mention something won't happen when it did. Just need to suck it up I think. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:41:00 - [90] Originally by: Ricdic In regards to the mail from Kieron, anyone could find some old dev blogs that mention something won't happen when it did. Just need to suck it up I think. One might point to the tractor beam BPO cost change, if one was so inclined. Its going to cost XXX. Ginger magician buys a crap load, next day, we changed our minds. This doesn't mitigate the fact that it was handled any better then it was then. The only difference, is they told you... "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 16:55:00 - [91] Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Cpt Branko This sort of thing shouldn't happen without notice. Especially considering CCP staff said they were there to stay. Which they didn't have to, but when they did, the polite thing (if you want to change it, which they have every right to do) is to notify people you are going to, so they can at least prepare. One forum post / patch note / whatever saying 'We're changing it, sorry.' would have sufficed and would've been the polite thing to do considering it was said they'll keep them in high-sec. The point is that with the building of several Rorqual in high sec it was needed to act fast. The hi sec howner of large assembly arrays brought theyr doom on themselves. Thank you for reading the words to what i was saying...at least theres someone out there more intent on the greater message, than there post count...
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.04 17:33:00 - [92] Originally by: Ray McCormack Why do you think you should continue to benefit from something that other corporations and individuals have no chance of doing? You mean like having T2 Ship BPO's? You're right - get rid of them.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 17:43:00 - [93] Edited by: Kaaii on 04/09/2007 17:45:25 Originally by: voogru Originally by: Kaaii A somewhat valid point. It was not however 100% risk free. For those that think outside the box, a war dec would have crippled the abilty to load said lsaa. Consider for a moment the number of componets that we had to load. Up until just recently it could only be done by agonisely slow multiple run with indys,, even with rigs carrying a max of 4 componets at a time. Divide 200+ by that. A war dec would not have put the structure at risk but certainly a steady stream of indys, undocking and docking for hours would put these assets at risk, no? Then freighters were given the ability to dock with pos structures, about 3 months ago, or less. So in effect upping the risk of a war dec, and loosing a freigther with 90+ componets in it. Hardly risk free........ hahahaha 1. Password POS FF 2. Have indy alt in NPC corp bring components to POS. 3. Have corp member in shuttle go to POS. 4. Indy alt jettisons stuff 5. Corp member safe in POS transfers stuff. Don't make me laugh. You were building cap ships in high sec 100% risk free. You had a competitive advantage over other players because they need to have a low sec POS which can get attacked easily. Even now that POS's can be attacked, it's a PITA to do it with battleships. While massive damage may have a army of alts to get around game mechanics, (ever use your alts to roam free, selling your "gains" in empire cause you can't go yourself?) I did not have the luxury. I suppose I could have hired some though, now that I think about it, its just that I didn't. Just a small corp of a few alts with mains out in the 0.0s. Hardly some mega operation pumping out caps every day. In fact, in our best month we did maybe 10 or so. some months we didn't even sell two. I think most of we did make went to our mains or friends of mains. the site could have been attacked. It never was. Saying it was 100% safe because it was never attacked, doesn't cut it. And yes, it would have been a royal pita to take it out with battleships. However, not impossible, so i stand by my claim. In EVE, nothing is impossible, just sometimes, unlikely given time frame and assets. A competitive edge is gained everyday in one form or the other in EVE. You gain it every time your alts under cuts a jita sell by .01. Every time you blow up an opposing corps indy. Combine the two and you have real eve play. "Id rather fall beside 10 Lions, than stand with 1000 sheep.."
Cornucopian Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:03:00 - [94] this thread delivers!! epic!!! kaaii, you are getting your rorqual, as well as your LSAA. the fact that you did not get a message is sad, but i dont believe it justifies the position you are taking. you had an obvious advantage on the rest of the world which was a breach in normal game rules. CCP is not in any way obliged to meekly inform you that they have plans on discontinuing the assembly array. end of story. you had a nice run, which is now over. move along, nothing to see here... ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:04:00 - [95] Oh Noes.. CCP went back on their word.. What surprises me is that this seems to surprise you. Large arrays are not allowed in High sec.. you managed to squeek by for ages with them. However now with the new Industural capital.. CCP realizes that it would be more difficult to police you as a Roquel sitting in a belt is less noteworthy but more umbalencing to high sec then an attack capital which would be used against ppl gain instant petitions agianst and get spanked back to lowsec faster then you can say ^$$^%#$. They decided that just unanchoring them and listening to tthe resultant whines would be more economic then mentioning it first and listening to the whines. Ya see this way they can just ignore your crying since its already done... you don't honestly think they are gonna suddenly decide.. Oh hey.. lets play favorites with the few ppl that managed to slip through the *****s. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:06:00 - [96] Originally by: kieron According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations, Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the LSAA still there just not anchored and usable? So technically CCP didn't change it's stance.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:09:00 - [97] Ok. Now that I've read the entire thread, and many people have made valid enough points on the favoritism the OP and many others have enjoyed, I'll try to address the remaning argument the OP may have: They were told the LSAA's would stay. 1> Yes, a statement was made that they would stay. They did for a year. 2> Things change in Eve. The thing that changed recently was the intoduction of the Roqual, which necessitated the changes to the LSAA's in secure space. 3> I agree that a warning would have been nice, but completely unnecessary. Since the ship will be relocated to a low-sec system, what difference would it have made to let you know? 3> I don't think this is a question of 'CCP going back on its word.' It appears to be a question of balance, of removing special privlidges, and does not actually take away anything from you. 4> T2 BPO's should all be removed (cuz I don't have one.) Mines should be allowed (cuz I do have those BPO's.) Snowball Launchers should be returned (cuz I was saving mine to pelt Sir Molle with after the Goons perma-scramble his pod in NOL.)
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:12:00 - [98] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: kieron According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations, Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the LSAA still there just not anchored and usable? So technically CCP didn't change it's stance.. you tell me.... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:13:00 - [99] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: kieron According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations, Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the LSAA still there just not anchored and usable? So technically CCP didn't change it's stance.. And lets not forget.. Oveur isn't the final word. Did it occur to anyone that perhaps he was overruled and forced to unachor? Or do you all assume that because 1 person said something.. that his word is law? if so.. man have I got some things to tell you. Please all you ppl complaining about your large arrays.. please post scanned copies of your notarized hardcopy promises that your arrays would remain as is.. forever. If you cannot produce said signed promises/guarentees... then grab a tissue and get over it. ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:16:00 - [100] Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Originally by: kieron According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations, Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the LSAA still there just not anchored and usable? So technically CCP didn't change it's stance.. you tell me.... I dunno.. I don't do pos stuff I just blow players stuff up run the odd mission for some quick cash and trade when I get some fat loot.. So does it float away and dissapear from the game if its unanchored? Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:18:00 - [101] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus So does it float away and dissapear from the game if its unanchored? Its possible.. my CEO had to spend 45 minutes chasing down a freshly unanchored ship matience array that was running away at like 800m/s ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Bellum Eternus Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:18:00 - [102] CCP should have just removed all LSAAs from empire across the board last year and been done with it. You had your grace period. Plenty of opportunity to move them. They gave you six months of freebie ship building and you're still complaining? Build cap ships in low sec like everyone else. [Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:27:00 - [103] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus So does it float away and dissapear from the game if its unanchored? Its possible.. my CEO had to spend 45 minutes chasing down a freshly unanchored ship matience array that was running away at like 800m/s lol? K.. So its like a secure can then.. So CCP is still holding to thier statement if taken literally as I see nothing specific promising said arrays would always be usable.. And it looks like they did (take it to the word literally..) so sorry fellas you can always relocate your offline LSAA to low sec now.. I'm sure they will receive a warm welcome.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:28:00 - [104] as a former emprie lsaa owner, ours was removed jsut the same as everyone else's. We did ships for corpies, and alliance mates. We also built our frieghters there mainly, more freighters built there than anythign else including battleships. The removal sucks, the chang in logistics sucks more, NO warning and having jobs about to start that take 3 frighter trips to move somplace to build a ship to get jumped out is rediculous. time to go play hello kitty online
brakespear Minmatar Wayward Brewing Fallen Souls	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:31:00 - [105] Originally by: Bellum Eternus CCP should have just removed all LSAAs from empire across the board last year and been done with it. You had your grace period. Plenty of opportunity to move them. They gave you six months of freebie ship building and you're still complaining? True, but I'm guessing part of the bad feeling this has generated is down to the lack of a warning - it's not like it was a hidden loophole that needed fixing in secrecy or anything. -------------------------------------------------- brakespear - the lowest common denominator
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:35:00 - [106] Originally by: Sazkyen Edited by: Sazkyen on 04/09/2007 15:12:02 If there can be people in-game who are allowed to own TII BPOs while others have no chance to get them then why the HECK not leave these guys have their assembly arrays in peace in empire space? Maybe because at least half of that people has got his t2 BPO in with the same system you can use to get it, buyng it? Maybe because these guy where building Rorqual like mad with the express intentiuon of using them in high sec and unanchoring only the assembly array of the corporations doing that would have been favoritism? They have choose to gambe that the production of a capital that could work unnoticed in high sec would have been allowed like the building of capital combat ship that if used in high sec can be easily spotted and dealt with. They have lost the gamble.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:35:00 - [107] Originally by: Clorthos time to go play hello kitty online You know for a game thats known for its no holds barred dog eat dog greifing by everyone and his alt to everyone and his alt it kinda makes you wonder why people run to hello kitty online whenever they get greifed by the Devs? They like to play too.. You people are such selfish **ers I swear... Originally by:** David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:37:00 - [108] Kaaii, I read in your thread that Capitol Ships built in your (and other) LSAA's left in Empire were allowed as long as they were jumped to low sec as soon as they were completed... Were all these new Capitol Ships going to follow this or were some going to stay in Empire? I am torn... I am sorry you and your fellows were not warned about what was planned with your LSAA's... Its a shame that we who will not be going to low sec space any time soon can't travel to see some of these Capital Ships by visiting Chribba and his Veld Assault Fleet... but it seems to me that if it became obvious that some of these Rorqual's that were being built by you and others were going to be kept in High Sec (Breaking the agreement that cap ships would leave High Sec soon after completion) warranted the removal of the LSAA's left in high sec... If the Continued existence of High Sec LSAA's were to be considered an exploit, I am not surprised that there was no warning as that is the CCP policy, but that change in policy needed to be addressed. --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:55:00 - [109] Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Sazkyen Edited by: Sazkyen on 04/09/2007 15:12:02 If there can be people in-game who are allowed to own TII BPOs while others have no chance to get them then why the HECK not leave these guys have their assembly arrays in peace in empire space? ----------------------------------------- Maybe because at least half of that people has got his t2 BPO in with the same system you can use to get it, buyng it? Maybe because these guy where building Rorqual like mad with the express intentiuon of using them in high sec and unanchoring only the assembly array of the corporations doing that would have been favoritism? They have choose to gambe that the production of a capital that could work unnoticed in high sec would have been allowed like the building of capital combat ship that if used in high sec can be easily spotted and dealt with. They have lost the gamble. You presume to know alot for not being involved in any way. GMs had specificlly said caps ships built there were not allowed to stay, ricking a ban if you did. There, your'e smarter now. As ccp had full access to systems, resources etc, i don't think unnoticed is the right word for you to use..try, sanctioned. there, now you're twice as smart, you can keep up now.. According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 18:55:00 - [110] Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Ricdic In regards to the mail from Kieron, anyone could find some old dev blogs that mention something won't happen when it did. Just need to suck it up I think. One might point to the tractor beam BPO cost change, if one was so inclined. Its going to cost XXX. Ginger magician buys a crap load, next day, we changed our minds. This doesn't mitigate the fact that it was handled any better then it was then. The only difference, is they told you... You would have liked a public annuncement "the 30th of august all the high sec large assembly array will be unanchored"? I think you will have found a lot of voltures trying to snitch avay yours at soon as it was unanchored, using any creative tactic they can think of to bump it out of the force field.
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:01:00 - [111] Anyway... Much thanks for those who understood the thrust of my post, in that any time, anywhere, any hour of the day, your "stuff" can change on you, no matter what was said previously. To the rest, appreciate your comments, flames, hate and discord...its all ones and zeros anyway... I did get mail from a senior gm. Telling me m My ships would be delivered to the low sec of my choice, once they completed. Thats nice. I also got, paraphrased as to not break any rules, you know how i am about that.. ----- Hi, That post was made in November 2006. This is something that was decided needs to be changed. These are not supposed to be available in high security space, and as such they have now been removed. ----- So in summary, @ you, Kieron... According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Cornucopian Gallente Dutch Omega United Freemen Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:02:00 - [112] Edited by: Cornucopian on 04/09/2007 19:03:26 edit; post deleted since the op decided to end his discussion. he has made peace. for this I salute you. ----------------------------------------------- "post with your main. delete your alt, you sad little exploiting metagamer." Originally by: Royaldo complete win by Cornucopian!
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:19:00 - [113] Originally by: Kaaii Anyway... Much thanks for those who understood the thrust of my post, in that any time, anywhere, any hour of the day, your "stuff" can change on you, no matter what was said previously. To the rest, appreciate your comments, flames, hate and discord...its all ones and zeros anyway... I did get mail from a senior gm. Telling me m My ships would be delivered to the low sec of my choice, once they completed. Thats nice. I also got, paraphrased as to not break any rules, you know how i am about that.. ----- Hi, That post was made in November 2006. This is something that was decided needs to be changed. These are not supposed to be available in high security space, and as such they have now been removed. ----- So in summary, @ you, Kieron... You came you whined you argued you accepted and then you adapted.. Respect +1 Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
Bentula	Posted - 2007.09.04 19:43:00 - [114] Originally by: Cornucopian Edited by: Cornucopian on 04/09/2007 19:03:26 edit; post deleted since the op decided to end his discussion. he has made peace. for this I salute you. But ... but ... i want to keep arguing , can he really just do that
Kaaii Caldari Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:02:00 - [115] Originally by: Bentula Originally by: Cornucopian Edited by: Cornucopian on 04/09/2007 19:03:26 edit; post deleted since the op decided to end his discussion. he has made peace. for this I salute you. But ... but ... i want to keep arguing , can he really just do that Oh and for the record, its *she*.... And boy can I argue, just ask my corpmates According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:04:00 - [116] Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/09/2007 20:08:06 Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Sazkyen Edited by: Sazkyen on 04/09/2007 15:12:02 If there can be people in-game who are allowed to own TII BPOs while others have no chance to get them then why the HECK not leave these guys have their assembly arrays in peace in empire space? ----------------------------------------- Maybe because at least half of that people has got his t2 BPO in with the same system you can use to get it, buyng it? Maybe because these guy where building Rorqual like mad with the express intentiuon of using them in high sec and unanchoring only the assembly array of the corporations doing that would have been favoritism? They have choose to gambe that the production of a capital that could work unnoticed in high sec would have been allowed like the building of capital combat ship that if used in high sec can be easily spotted and dealt with. They have lost the gamble. You presume to know alot for not being involved in any way. GMs had specificlly said caps ships built there were not allowed to stay, ricking a ban if you did. There, your'e smarter now. As ccp had full access to systems, resources etc, i don't think unnoticed is the right word for you to use..try, sanctioned. there, now you're twice as smart, you can keep up now.. Look the thread someone has linked to this about the Rorqual auction in high sec. Even it the OP was dening any knowledge of what and where the Rorqual would be used for, his selling point to start with a very high base price was that the ship would be in high sec. He was even advertising the ores available in system. So it was a clear invite form the owner of a large assembly array in high sec to build his merchandise and use it in high sec. You can see it in 2 different fashion: 1) he was convinced that the exploit would go unnoticed and selling the ship invitinpeople to use the exploit 2) he thought it would be noticed and was scamming people, knowing that a off game mechanic (the GM intervention) would depreciate his merchandise as soon as used. So he was exploiting an off game mechanic to get more from a ship sale than the ship was worth. So the existence of large assembly arrays was originating new exploits, based on the existence of the Rorqual. I don't see for CCP other option that removing them and fast. I presume a lot, let's seem: Know Rorqual on production in high sec at this point: Chribba, 2 of yours, 3 Goonswarm. Certified on sale 1 Goonswarm (16%). This after 1 week from the introduction of the Rorqual. To me it seem a high level of production in high sec for a ship destinated to low sec and from only 3 of the groups with high sech large assembly array.
Drachma Golea Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:10:00 - [117] Allthough I agree to the OP, hat this just shouldn't be done, the EULA prolly has that covered...
Ebodhisatva Gallente hunter killers	Posted - 2007.09.04 20:17:00 - [118] Originally by: Venkul Mul Edited by: Venkul Mul on 04/09/2007 20:08:06 Originally by: Kaaii Originally by: Venkul Mul Originally by: Sazkyen Edited by: Sazkyen on 04/09/2007 15:12:02 If there can be people in-game who are allowed to own TII BPOs while others have no chance to get them then why the HECK not leave these guys have their assembly arrays in peace in empire space? ----------------------------------------- Maybe because at least half of that people has got his t2 BPO in with the same system you can use to get it, buyng it? Maybe because these guy where building Rorqual like mad with the express intentiuon of using them in high sec and unanchoring only the assembly array of the corporations doing that would have been favoritism? They have choose to gambe that the production of a capital that could work unnoticed in high sec would have been allowed like the building of capital combat ship that if used in high sec can be easily spotted and dealt with. They have lost the gamble. You presume to know alot for not being involved in any way. GMs had specificlly said caps ships built there were not allowed to stay, ricking a ban if you did. There, your'e smarter now. As ccp had full access to systems, resources etc, i don't think unnoticed is the right word for you to use..try, sanctioned. there, now you're twice as smart, you can keep up now.. Look the thread someone has linked to this about the Rorqual auction in high sec. Even it the OP was dening any knowledge of what and where the Rorqual would be used for, his selling point to start with a very high base price was that the ship would be in high sec. He was even advertising the ores available in system. So it was a clear invite form the owner of a large assembly array in high sec to build his merchandise and use it in high sec. You can see it in 2 different fashion: 1) he was convinced that the exploit would go unnoticed and selling the ship invitinpeople to use the exploit 2) he thought it would be noticed and was scamming people, knowing that a off game mechanic (the GM intervention) would depreciate his merchandise as soon as used. So he was exploiting an off game mechanic to get more from a ship sale than the ship was worth. So the existence of large assembly arrays was originating new exploits, based on the existence of the Rorqual. I don't see for CCP other option that removing them and fast. I presume a lot, let's seem: Know Rorqual on production in high sec at this point: Chribba, 2 of yours, 3 Goonswarm. Certified on sale 1 Goonswarm (16%). This after 1 week from the introduction of the Rorqual. To me it seem a high level of production in high sec for a ship destinated to low sec and from only 3 of the groups with high sech large assembly array. So they never saw this coming? A Capital ship pwning a truck load of BS'es they could manage to get busted, but a system being robbed constantly from it's ore in 30 seconds isn't to be managed? Is it that the SQL-hamsters can't keep up, or are they admitting they made the mistake lettings Capitals Stay In Empire High Sex? I still think it's nice to see a big fat chribba veldnaught boat mining... I'd really would love to see that roq thing mining in high sex Originally by: CCP Prism X You wont have any LPs. You need LPs with said Corp and like I said I just nuked your LPs.
Gungankllr Caldari STK Scientific M. PIRE	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:12:00 - [119] The main problem is that shipyards with the ability to create capital-class ships should be colocated in an area that is open to attack by whoever is able to bring the skill and numbers to siege your POS. Risk and reward have to be balanced. you were happy to sit around churning out capital ships in an area where mineral prices were bottomed out, while being completely safe from attack. Sure, somebody could have wardecced you, but the amount of HP on a POS is pretty silly to assault without a significant force to include dreads. Things change in Eve, such is life. We've seen many things that we love nerfed for the (and pay attention to this part) betterment of the game. Remember Dual MWD Ravens? Remember Nanophoons? Missile Changes? Having a POS able to build capital ships in highsec was SUPPOSED to have been taken out months ago, you got away with it for a good time because you didn't advertise and were very quiet. Anyhow, I'm sorry you feel you were slighted, but you're going to find that most people would say "tough crap", go do it like the rest of us. Anyhow, I agree that everyone should have given a short notice.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:12:00 - [120] Originally by: Ebodhisatva So they never saw this coming? A Capital ship pwning a truck load of BS'es they could manage to get busted, but a system being robbed constantly from it's ore in 30 seconds isn't to be managed? Is it that the SQL-hamsters can't keep up, or are they admitting they made the mistake lettings Capitals Stay In Empire High Sex? I still think it's nice to see a big fat chribba veldnaught boat mining... I'd really would love to see that roq thing mining in high sex The Rorqual as a gang directing ship has an advantage on a Command Ship but as long as it is not required to be on the same grid it is hard to detect (beging a mining director giving the bonus is totally passive). A Rorqual compressing veldspater is a bit easier to detect but it will still be difficult. Both action will be exploit and both will be difficult to detect.
F'nog Amarr Celestial Horizon Corp. Valainaloce	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:15:00 - [121] Originally by: Frug They should have warned you ahead of time. You should not get special privileges though. Once again this all comes down to CCP's lack of communication. If, as in so many instances before hand, they had simply posted: "On X date (or even: Tomorrow)we'll be removing all LSAAs from high-sec space" this would have been avoided. Is it so difficult to inform the playerbase of what's going on instead of dropping a bomb on the us? And, no, I didn't have one. I don't even have a single POS anywhere. But I'm a bit miffed that CCP didn't think it was a good idea to inform everyone of the change prior to doing it, especially when they previously stated that it wouldn't happen. I used to get It. Then It changed. Now I don't even know what It is.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2007.09.04 21:47:00 - [122] CCP's policy has never to call attention to what it has determined to be an exploit until after that exploit has been fixed... then they tell us that they fixed the following exploits and list them... With the advent of the Rorqual, CCP decides that the LSAA in High Sec Space have become an exploit (or have that potential) and must therefore be removed... after making this decision they look at their options, set a date and fix the potential exploit... Prior to the announcement that this potential exploit has been fixed, this thread and others spring up... Please note that there is no proof that any of the former owners of the High Sec LSAA's were planning to exploit this beyond the offer listed for the Rorqual built in High Sec Space, and even that one may not have been. The problem as I see it is what happens if one of these Rorqual's fail to leave the system, CCP knows where it was built, but swinging the ban stick at the exploiter (Rorqual Driver) would not really be correct in that it was the builder that failed to live up to the agreement to jump all Capital ships to low sec after they are built. --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
Illyria Ambri RennTech	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:02:00 - [123] Originally by: F'nog Once again this all comes down to CCP's lack of communication. If, as in so many instances before hand, they had simply posted: "On X date (or even: Tomorrow)we'll be removing all LSAAs from high-sec space" this would have been avoided. Is it so difficult to inform the playerbase of what's going on instead of dropping a bomb on the us? Wouldn't have worked.. all those corps with the arrays would have been posting here anwyays whining about the supposed promise oveur gave them and crying foul... Thats why CCP did it w/o notice.. They can ignore the whines after the fact.. if they start whining first.. CCP has to pretend to listen rather then just ignore.. which do you think is easier and more natural to them? ------------ This is not War... This is pest control - Dalek Sek Here come the Drums!! - The Master
Bluemaxs	Posted - 2007.09.04 22:08:00 - [124] Its kinda funny that people start to think about advantages they got due playing to a certain time and getting something that others cant like LSAA in high sec or having the lottery luck to get a T2 BPO that this advantages are something that they ¦earned¦ or ¦worked for¦ or anything compared to it and so they shall stay like it is until the end of time. Now as another defense arguement that players that play longer should have naturaly advantages over people that play later of this nature it should simply be recognized that at a certain point LSAA couldnt be deployed in high sec anymore and all people that joined that game after this change are subject to this (and all old players who did not have a LSAA before the change)..well now we have a new change that also the old LSAA are forbidden as well..hmmz now you guys are subject to a change..like the other had to get used to the change get used to your own change and stop whining. You had an advantage for some time and be happy about it..now its over.
Terror Rising Death Of Fallen Angels	Posted - 2007.09.04 23:23:00 - [125] Originally by: Illyria Ambri Originally by: F'nog Once again this all comes down to CCP's lack of communication. If, as in so many instances before hand, they had simply posted: "On X date (or even: Tomorrow)we'll be removing all LSAAs from high-sec space" this would have been avoided. Is it so difficult to inform the playerbase of what's going on instead of dropping a bomb on the us? Wouldn't have worked.. all those corps with the arrays would have been posting here anwyays whining about the supposed promise oveur gave them and crying foul... Thats why CCP did it w/o notice.. They can ignore the whines after the fact.. if they start whining first.. CCP has to pretend to listen rather then just ignore.. which do you think is easier and more natural to them? No they wouldnt post.. Why? because it would draw attention to themselves.. CCP made a capital mining ship .. and THEN realised... "ah crap, you know what we forgot..." ... So rorquals didnt get nerfed so that they cant use X skill in 0.5> (YES capitals are nerfed in empire in the code, you cannot assign fighters etc).. Instead, EVERYTHING gets nerfed. As I have said before, it is not an issue, but from the timeline you can tell that CCP screwed up.. Why? Becuase if they had REALLY thought it out they would have nerfed the Arrays ON the patch and incuded it in the notes. But no, they realised at the Xth minute that they had made a loophole and had to close it. So, all those corps that had obeyed the rules and had followed the policies they were given, they got spanked without notice. Fair? no... Capitals in high sec fair? no ... (of course not)... But a mail maybe even 1 week before it was done or a mention in the patch notes... surely that would have been professional? No?
Feng Schui Minmatar The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.05 00:50:00 - [126] Personally, I would have set the date to when 2.3 came out, max PE, max Manufactoring skills.. however long it takes to manufacture from this - 1 day = the day we take them down. Then release a small devblog saying, we're taking down all high sec LSAA's, so please do not add any capital ships to the production. Boom.. no one would have added Rorquals to the production, people could have offlined them / moved them, all would have been good. The Beginning <-- crap quality, need to redo, sorry :(
Varrakk Chosen Path FATAL Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.05 08:22:00 - [127] Edited by: Varrakk on 05/09/2007 08:25:07 Up to a few days ago, I was the happy owner of a High-sec LSAA. As with Kaaii, my lsaa was also shut down by a GM when someone petitioned it. It was onlined again with the agreement that all capitals had to be jumped out as soon as possible. The unannounced unanchoring of the LSAA was handled pretty bad. And we was promised to keep these jewels. The more elegant sollution I would have picked, prevent acticvation of Industrial Core, Siege Mode and Triage in high-sec. (fixd speeling)
Vardemis Tabula Rasa Systems The Star Fraction	Posted - 2007.09.05 09:12:00 - [128] Keeping LSAA in high security systems operational without the chance to anyone to do so is not acceptable in my oppinion. It creates differences in the risk versus reward equation for the very same production process on various levels. Access and hauling of minerals and fuel, safety of the structures because captial ships cannot be used to assault them, the need of a declaration of war to start assaulting them, giving the owner an advanced warning. There is no penalty at all and a lot worse then the mentioned t2 bpo lottery, since there was always the option to just buy the bpo, however you cannot buy such a pos. Capital production should bring the same risk to any producer, without any exceptions. -Vardemis
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2007.09.05 09:29:00 - [129] I don't think they should have unanchored them without telling folks since previously they said they would remain and be grandfathered into the game. At the same time I don't really think Kieron is in a position that could actually help the situation. The community managers I've seen in the MMOs I've player are all pretty much yes men, those that aren't don't last long at their jobs. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Valacirca Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2007.09.05 14:49:00 - [130] It looks like Kaaii has a fair case that warrants at least a Dev response on the issue. While we can't assume every promise is true, and I'm sure if the dev's reply months ago was well known that this wouldn't have suddenly occurred, I think some sort of recompense should be made to those owners of LSAAs who have followed Kieron's order to the letter.
dor amwar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:24:00 - [131] the first mistake was that they allowed you to have it so long. bad...really bad. removing it without telling you ahead of time, second mistake. but that is ccp. you were fortunate and benefited, losing it now is not a loss on your part, you still gained where others couldn't. stop the whine.
Jennai The Silent Rage R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.05 15:55:00 - [132] Originally by: Vardemis Keeping LSAA in high security systems operational without the chance to anyone to do so is not acceptable in my oppinion. It creates differences in the risk versus reward equation for the very same production process on various levels. highsec LSAA were not acceptable for the balance reasons you mentioned, but telling the owners that they'd be grandfathered in and then unanchoring them all with no notice whatsoever is horrible customer service. it would have taken maybe half an hour to get someone to look up contact info for all the highsec LSAA and send a mail saying "we changed our minds, move your thing in the next 3 days or it'll be unanchored".
Clorthos Gallente Tau Ceti Global Production Angels Of Discord	Posted - 2007.09.05 17:00:00 - [133] Originally by: dor amwar the first mistake was that they allowed you to have it so long. bad...really bad. removing it without telling you ahead of time, second mistake. but that is ccp. you were fortunate and benefited, losing it now is not a loss on your part, you still gained where others couldn't. stop the whine. The problem for me is they grandfathered it in, they stated that and then without warning took it away. I had not done too much work at mine, mainly building what was needed for corp and alliance mates that wanted to pick it up down in empire. Most of my builds were Freighters, and indeed we had a ore ship about to go into build for a corpie as well. If in the last november patch discussion they said " we will take this away sometime in the future " I would not of been working for the past 9 months on building the ships there but set a low sec pos up closer to my 0.0 logistics route. Building cap ships for 0.0 in empire space is not really that convenient, and I have almsot lost a couple to cynoing on the odd transist station here and there with other carriers and dreads moving about or pirates with capitals. CCP needs to face the music on this in an official capacity and publicly say to everyone not just the ceo's since mroe than them were effected by this. 1) sorry to the gaming community for not giving everyone the chance to do this. 2) sorry to the Large ship array owners for giving no warning on this action, seeing as we were following your stated words on the LSaa'a you owe us that. 3) Don't treat us like scum for following a game mechanic in place, you glorified the Privateers with interviews posted in forum and in charater selection screen, and then told them 2 weeks before you were going to nerf them in patch notes. 4) since we can no longer start our jobs where we intended to do them, through no fualt of our own, some of us are left with a fairly sizable ammount of capital parts in high sec areas, bpo's and bpc's as well. CCP should move the parts and bpo's to the location of the CEO's of that corp's choosing so they incur no risk of loss of materials for following the rules as in place. You are already doing it with the ships that are in production so we know it can and should be done with the assets left in a uesless area due to this. To the player that is looking at this issue and saying "good ridance", fine you deserve the right, but don't think for one second that everyone of us read the rules as stated by the patch team. Rearead them, and then again before we asked gm's again if it was ok, and thier blessing on the ships being build in place were given. At no point, and I can assure you this since for my corp I am the one that was doing the work, would I of started this path of production in place if the GM's response would of been .... we may take it away without warning .... In fact the response was never let it run out of fuel and never offline it because we will not turn it back on for you ever. ~so angry I have sharted myself and flung poo at the screen~
Meek also	Posted - 2007.09.05 17:02:00 - [134] I'll throw my 2 cents in.. If the ORE cap ship was not introduced, I would have no problem with the LSAA's in empire staying.. However, I think that someone having a ORE industrial in .5 + space, protected by concord is not balanced.. Since they cannot limit you from building one at a LSAA in empire, then the LSAA has to go.. I think CCP was on the ball on this one, even if it's not a popular decision from those that had them.. Time to start building capital in a .4 or lower system like everyone else..
dor amwar Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.05 17:39:00 - [135] Originally by: Clorthos Originally by: dor amwar the first mistake was that they allowed you to have it so long. bad...really bad. removing it without telling you ahead of time, second mistake. but that is ccp. you were fortunate and benefited, losing it now is not a loss on your part, you still gained where others couldn't. stop the whine. The problem for me i just cannot believe you thought they would let you continue as the only cap producers in highsec. poor business planning. i agree that that ccp has done a leeroy here, what else have you come to expect from them in these situations. but you had your exclusive time to benefit from their mistake and i have no pity on your arguments.
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.05 18:53:00 - [136] No you can't rely on CCP's word. EVE rule number one applies here: Do not trust anyone any further than blaster range. --- This is a war declaration, issued from your alt corp. It is used to gank people in high sec.
Hugh Ruka Caldari Free Traders	Posted - 2007.09.05 19:41:00 - [137] After reading the OP. I'd expect the inteligent people to agree with him/her. Seems there are very few inteligent people in this thread. There is not a single word that they want the LSAA's back. They just wanted a prior warning that something will happen. Next time when YOU cry after a stealth nerf to your ship/module/whatever, you deserver the same treatment you gave the OP. It IS FAIR WHAT was done. It is NOT FAIR HOW it was done. Originally by: Aravel Thon Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox............... I am so so terribly sorry...
Haradgrim Caldari The Wild Bunch	Posted - 2007.09.05 20:00:00 - [138] CCP should have never left your LSAA in high sec, they also should have notified you. CCP should also remove all unlimited run t2 bpos from the game without exchanging them for ones with massive amounts of runs, they should also notify players before doing this. No player should have a greater advantage over another due to having started their character earlier (aside from SP). CCP messed this one up pretty bad in my opinion, after all the stuff (especially as it relates to BoB) that happened over the last year they should be making an effort to appear consistent and fair in all of their interaction with the player base, this would be an example of the complete opposite..... - Haradgrim [-WB-] That.which.does.not.bend.breaks

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