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INCURSIONS - NERF SUPPORTED BY CCP AND VEILED AS A USER-COMMITTED EVENT

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Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 350	Posted - 2012.01.18 13:51:00 - [1] - Quote For those of you who do not bother to read the news on your character selection page. CCP are now actively supporting anything other richer, far more powerful players do in order to get Highsec dwellers into lowsec. The news is veiled as an almost allegoric mission by Krissada, which CCP are strutting as "the right stuff". I am not an Incursion runner and never have been, but this is not a sandbox anymore, not when CCP and CSM actively join forces on nerfing the game for other players. If Incusrions are an ISK faucet which carry no risk, then nerf them, like CCP nerf Ships and modules. Quote: reported by: ISD Eumaios Thelousses \| 2012.01.18 01:30:21 New Eden - A group of capsuleers, led by Krissada, are attempting to disrupt the GÇ£ISK farmingGÇ¥ currently occurring at Sansha Incursion sites. They are planning to destroy Sansha motherships as soon as they arrive through their wormholes and in doing so hope to cut back the amount of ISK earned by capsuleers who attend the incursions simply to collect bounties on the lesser Sansha forces in the area. Krissada is apparently aggrieved that "bears" are able to "farm" for ISK in high-sec Incursions with little risk as long as they do not destroy the Sansha mothership. This, to her, is a blatant misuse of CONCORD's reward system and she is focused on stopping what she believes is an "ISK faucet". Disgruntled with how Incursions are fought she revealed her belief that "Sansha forces appear to be infinite, as is the depth of CONCORD's wallet". Krissada's plan is to destroy the Sansha motherships as soon as possible which will hopefully cause the immediate withdrawal of Sansha forces and prevent further bounties being collected by "Incursion Bears". She hopes to force those wanting to make ISK from Incursions into low-sec and thus ensuring when Sansha forces arrive in high-sec they are dealt with quickly by capsuleers who want to see victory rather than reward. Giving firm backing to Krissada, CSM member Darius III seemed to agree that high-sec Incursions are no longer about defeating Sansha's Nation but more about what can be earned: GÇ£The sites pay too much with almost no risk.GÇ¥ HardinSalvor, an Incursion community leader, reflected on how things have changed due to the lure of ISK: GÇ£Once the influence dropped low enough for the mom to spawn, people would rush to kill it. Through some diplomacy, a status quo was created where we avoid killing the mom as long as possible.GÇ¥ Some questionable math by community leaders sees them believing that an incredible 621 billion ISK is paid out by CONCORD every week from Incursions. If the numbers are accurate, it may be no surprise that a prominent Fleet Commander from the BTL Incursion channel is alleged to have bribed Darius III with 500 million ISK to not destroy a mothership during an Incursion. What utter hogwash. Either fix the incursion reward system (which has been discussed at great length in other threads), or nerf incursions totally. Rewarding and supporting elite, "already super-rich" players to make it crappy for other players to have their fun is underhanded and goes beyond the sandbox. So what's next, screw-up missions as well, right ? Way to go CCP, let's see what else you can come up with to chase players out of Eve. Fix things, stop breaking the game by supporting such idiocy. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 567	Posted - 2012.01.18 13:56:00 - [2] - Quote Even the title in the news is meant to convey the BS about incursions being too rewarding. I was suspicious of this line at first. Several CSM members saying they wanted limited changes. Yet with this news post and the joining of hands to implement the drake nerf I am pretty sure in my opinion that we have ourselves a nice little push to nerf hisec.
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 931	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:00:00 - [3] - Quote Hate to break it to you guys but Incursions were always meant to encourage this kind of game play. Right from the beginning we were told that people could come into an Incursion and work for or against the other players fighting the Sansha threat. So...sandbox working as intended. Your idea to prevent said player from playing his way is what breaks the sandbox...not the other way around. If you don't like it...get a bigger force of people than them and kill them before they ruin your fun. Simple as that. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 567	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:05:00 - [4] - Quote Vertisce Soritenshi wrote: Hate to break it to you guys but Incursions were always meant to encourage this kind of game play. Right from the beginning we were told that people could come into an Incursion and work for or against the other players fighting the Sansha threat. So...sandbox working as intended. Your idea to prevent said player from playing his way is what breaks the sandbox...not the other way around. If you don't like it...get a bigger force of people than them and kill them before they ruin your fun. Simple as that. You don't get it. The article is in my opinion about turning people who know nothing about them against incursions so it is easier to push in big nerfs to them. The election season stunt he pulled was a sideshow compared to what they want to do in my opinion.
Juliana Stinger Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:07:00 - [5] - Quote "621 billion ISK is paid out by CONCORD every week from Incursions" impressive amount of isk they are making.
Elder Ozzian Stargates and Smuggler Barons 20	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:09:00 - [6] - Quote I read the CSM minutes, and noticed that there were some plans with incursions; IT'S NOT A NERF, it's balancing. Vanguard sites are the most valuable sites in incursions, therefore it should be brought to the same level as eq. Assault sites. How this is done? I don't actually care as long as the results shows reduction in pilots doing vanguard sites, and increase in pilots doing HQ sites. And for the incursions, this is actually buffing them. More random numbers with spawns, and more situations to handle = fun.
Roime UNFRL Fleet Operations CONSORTIUM UNIVERSALIS 120	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:10:00 - [7] - Quote Did you know that if you wrap your hard drive in two layers of tinfoil, it will prevent your Drake from getting nerfed?
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 350	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:12:00 - [8] - Quote Roime wrote: Did you know that if you wrap your hard drive in two layers of tinfoil, it will prevent your Drake from getting nerfed? So if I wrap my Myrmidon in tinfoil, will that fix it ? The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Lexmana Imperial Stout 164	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:17:00 - [9] - Quote I approve of this new service and/or product brought to the EVE sandbox by Krissada and Darius III et al. @ OP and the likes, you are just a bunch of whiners that think your whining will be accepted if it is spelled in capital letters. It wont.
jonnus ursidae Blacklight Incorporated Broken Chains Alliance 9	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:29:00 - [10] - Quote I've never run an Incursion but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that.. Darius III wasn't he a Goon? I've never collected moon goo but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that... wait that'd be nobody.
Alicia Fermi EVE University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:31:00 - [11] - Quote I do not think any sensible incursion runner would think that vanguards, as they current exist, are anything but broken. When critics speak of an insane ISK faucet (tap, dammit), I suspect they are referring to shiny fleets grinding vanguards as if CCP is going to remove them the following day. With respect to vanguards, the critics are right: there is too much ISK for too little risk. What the minutes the other day revealed is that CCP and the CSM agree that vanguards need to be brought down and/or made more difficult, and that the bigger sites need to be more enticing. I see these changes as good moves: social and coordinated play should reward its pilots. If the shiny blitz fleets in vanguards are slowed down and the rewards adjusted so that the biggest sites become a better source of income then I think high-sec incursions will be largely repaired. The anti-mom fleets are more of a side issue and do not really fix the problem with vanguard grinding. All they do is take us back to the time before the BTL/DTF agreement to maximise incursion time. If the anti-incursion community feel that, after vanguard adjustments, the farming of sites with the mothership up is still abhorrent then they can continue to pop the mothership. It is no more griefing than another fleet coming in to contest your site.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 568	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:34:00 - [12] - Quote Um the only thing that needs to happen with Vanguards is remove the ability to blitz them without killing everything. EVERYTHING ELSE has a much higher effect on nonshiny fleets and needs not be considered.
Elessa Enaka State War Academy Caldari State 22	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:37:00 - [13] - Quote I've never run an Incursion on any of my accounts, but this sounds like a positive IMHO. I would assume that the intent of running an Incursion is to defeat the Sansha threat, not to float in space farming bounties. If you want to do that, go ratting. AFAIK, Vanguards are the "low-level" sites associated with Incursions, followed by Assaults and then the HQ, why should Vanguards be where all of the ISK is? You would think that the "higher-level" sites would provide a better payout, I mean, am I just crazy or does that make sense to anyone else too? Devour to survive, so it is, so it's always been
AnkaD Amok. Goonswarm Federation 6	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:38:00 - [14] - Quote jonnus ursidae wrote: I've never collected moon goo but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that... wait that'd be nobody. Read the minutes before complaining for fucks sake
Tore Vest Vikinghall 135	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:40:00 - [15] - Quote Elder Ozzian wrote: IT'S NOT A NERF, it's balancing. Yeah.... rigth... CCP dont like the word "nerf".... So they call it "balancing". They removed allmost all drones from super-carriers (a droneship) and called it "rebalancing"
Alicia Fermi EVE University Ivy League 1	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:44:00 - [16] - Quote Elessa Enaka wrote: AFAIK, Vanguards are the "low-level" sites associated with Incursions, followed by Assaults and then the HQ, why should Vanguards be where all of the ISK is? You would think that the "higher-level" sites would provide a better payout, I mean, am I just crazy or does that make sense to anyone else too? Scout sites are the lowest level site but they are not even worth listing. It would be great if CCP could fix them to be something that a few newbies could run to make some reasonable ISK but there are other broken things in the game that really do need to be fixed before those (changing subsystems in a wormhole is a particularly egregious issue I hear from rabbit hole divers). Assaults and HQs do pay out more in ISK and LP per single site but it is much more efficient to grind vanguards quickly because there is hardly any variation to them and you can do them in your sleep. Making assaults and HQs more ISK/hour would be a great change to incursions. Vanguards are just too easy.
Endeavour Starfleet Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 568	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:44:00 - [17] - Quote AnkaD wrote: jonnus ursidae wrote: I've never collected moon goo but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that... wait that'd be nobody. Read the minutes before complaining for fucks sake They have been "talking" about moon goo changes for a LONG time now. Funny thing is it never happens.
Krissada Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 55	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:46:00 - [18] - Quote Did someone mention my name?
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 877	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:49:00 - [19] - Quote posting in a "Bricksquad stoled my MOM" tears thread The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 240	Posted - 2012.01.18 14:59:00 - [20] - Quote jonnus ursidae wrote: Darius III wasn't he a Goon? Ugh, we do have some standards you know. ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Jafit McJafitson Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 156	Posted - 2012.01.18 15:01:00 - [21] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: For those of you who do not bother to read the news on your character selection page. CCP are now actively supporting anything other richer, far more powerful players do in order to get Highsec dwellers into lowsec. I stopped reading there and left the thread satisfied that CCP has finally found their way.
Thorn Galen Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact 351	Posted - 2012.01.18 15:24:00 - [22] - Quote Jafit McJafitson wrote: Thorn Galen wrote: For those of you who do not bother to read the news on your character selection page. CCP are now actively supporting anything other richer, far more powerful players do in order to get Highsec dwellers into lowsec. I stopped reading there and left the thread satisfied that CCP has finally found their way. The thread is about Incursions being nerfed instead of being fixed, as discussed in various other threads in these forums. The thread is all about Incursions and how the super-rich come-up with excuses to ensure that there is no other competition to their super-richness. Blah-blah someone getting rich boo hoo is all I read in these forums, all the time, whether it's missions, or mining, or PI or Incursions. The tears come from the very people who have earned their huge fortunes doing the very things they now want nerfed. Unfortunately, as for CCP finding their way, they did a great job with the Crucible patch and most of us, me included, applauded them for that. Their actions now, or rather, in this case, lack of, puts them firmly back into a complacent loop as far as I am concerned. I do not always have to like everything I read regarding changes. I voice my concern even though the Incursion thing is not a direct hit on me, it does highlight the fact that the decisions which CCP sometimes make, often are ignorant of all previous information posted about such things by a large number of "regular" non Large Alliance players. So please, stop trying to hijack this thread and try and stick to the topic. Fix Incursions, stop actively supporting anything Darius and his crew have to say. LP's instead of ISK, Mothership sticking around a problem? Put a timer on it which, when it runs out, it's over, Incursion ends. Randomise the Incursion timer to reduce site campers, if such exist. There are other ways to fixing the ISK faucet than randomly nerfing it. The universe is an ancient desert, a vast wasteland with only occasional habitable planets as oases. We Fremen, comfortable with deserts, shall now venture into another. - STILGAR, From the Sietch to the Stars.
Lakshata Chawla Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow 11	Posted - 2012.01.18 15:30:00 - [23] - Quote I see a lot of tinfoil hats going on around hear. You guys know that Ammzi is (was) an incursionbear.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 2619	Posted - 2012.01.18 15:41:00 - [24] - Quote AnkaD wrote: jonnus ursidae wrote: I've never collected moon goo but I hear the rewards are ridiculous, good on whoever is stopping that... wait that'd be nobody. Read the minutes before complaining for fucks sake That's a lot to ask Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players. Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 223	Posted - 2012.01.18 15:49:00 - [25] - Quote oh no! risk with reward?! Not in my highsec!
Akrasjel Lanate Naquatech Conglomerate 513	Posted - 2012.01.18 15:51:00 - [26] - Quote I agree Nerf high-sec Incursions rewards
Skippermonkey Tactical Knightmare 317	Posted - 2012.01.18 15:51:00 - [27] - Quote see, your first mistake was to take an ISD article seriously also, if you run incursions like mad, of course you arent going to view a reduction in earnings as a FIX to incursions. I've run a few myself, and i can definitely say that system is pissing isk out like crazy. Its past due to slow down this flood of isk.
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 878	Posted - 2012.01.18 16:07:00 - [28] - Quote Thorn Galen wrote: Jafit McJafitson wrote: Thorn Galen wrote: For those of you who do not bother to read the news on your character selection page. CCP are now actively supporting anything other richer, far more powerful players do in order to get Highsec dwellers into lowsec. I stopped reading there and left the thread satisfied that CCP has finally found their way. The thread is about my unfounded opinion that CCP is supporting player controlled "nerfs" on Incursions because they don't want to bother FTFY The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
March rabbit Ganse Shadow of xXDEATHXx 111	Posted - 2012.01.18 16:12:00 - [29] - Quote Tore Vest wrote: Elder Ozzian wrote: IT'S NOT A NERF, it's balancing. Yeah.... rigth... CCP dont like the word "nerf".... So they call it "balancing". They removed allmost all drones from super-carriers (a droneship) and called it "rebalancing" well. if you look at the word "SUPER-carrier" you can see part "SUPER". so it's ok: SUPER-carrier carries SUPER-drones Fighters and Fighter-bombers are SUPER-drones
Surfin's PlunderBunny Ponies for the Ethical Treatment of Asteroids 841	Posted - 2012.01.18 16:22:00 - [30] - Quote All hail Krissada! Death to the infidel incursion bears!

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