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Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.10 09:59:00 - [91] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Amarria Black Well, since they exploded, the actual charges arent available. What you normally do is check the steel for traces. Unfortunately the remains of the steel was shipped off to Asia to get recycled before anyone could have a look at it. "I have no evidence," is far more concise. So you're asking us to take it on pure trust that there actually were explosives in the first place?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:07:00 - [92] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/09/2007 10:07:19 Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Jim McGregor Well, since they exploded, the actual charges arent available. What you normally do is check the steel for traces. Unfortunately the remains of the steel was shipped off to Asia to get recycled before anyone could have a look at it. "I have no evidence," is far more concise. So you're asking us to take it on pure trust that there actually were explosives in the first place? Yes, you would have to trust the numerous firemen who said there was. Look, I realize that its difficult to believe. Often we tend to think "That seems a bit strange, but the government must have had their reasons". We often make decisions based on emotional reasons instead of facts, thats just the way we are. If someone came up to me and showed me some conspiracy theory against my own government, I would laugh it off, probably not even looking at whatever he would say. Again, thats how we act as people. Anyway, just wanted to show you why I think there is something strange going on. There is no requirement to agree. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Blacksilk Caldari Absolutely No Return	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:07:00 - [93] I'm no expert but I think Jim is referring to Thermite being found at the site. Then I guess you have witnesses who say they heard small repeated 'bangs' that sound like fire *****ers... (I think thermite is the right word)
Mortis Leme Cloaca Maxima	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:08:00 - [94] Edited by: Mortis Leme on 10/09/2007 10:18:54 Edited by: Mortis Leme on 10/09/2007 10:09:30 Isn't it obvious? When a plane hits building around its middle-parts, you'd expect it to collapse according that, not imploding from top down as it did. It was clearly a insurance fraud of grand scale, plus it allowed some megalomaniacs to put on their efforts to conquer world. You don't need to watch some tinfoil movies to make up your mind. Just watch how'd it collapse and draw the conclusion. But if you do like to watch tinfoil movies, then you'd prolly find the staggering amount of evidence against the official "tewwowists hit the building wit da planez and it's why dey collapz'd" - story I'd reckon its time to show these criminals that their valued positions in top level of government isn't enough to protect them from justice. It seems that with manipulating the facts many ppl can be made to believe in most grotesks lies even tho they deep inside knows what happened, but are too afraid to comfort the truth. Rectum Analis Absorbum. Thats what have happened.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:09:00 - [95] Originally by: Blacksilk I'm no expert but I think Jim is referring to Thermite being found at the site. Then I guess you have witnesses who say they heard small repeated 'bangs' that sound like fire *****ers... (I think thermite is the right word) Yes, there was plenty of explosions being heard as well, but I figured I wont even get into that... --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:29:00 - [96] Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes, you would have to trust the numerous firemen who said there was. Look, I realize that its difficult to believe. Often we tend to think "That seems a bit strange, but the government must have had their reasons". We often make decisions based on emotional reasons instead of facts, thats just the way we are. If someone came up to me and showed me some conspiracy theory against my own government, I would laugh it off, probably not even looking at whatever he would say. Again, thats how we act as people. Anyway, just wanted to show you why I think there is something strange going on. There is no requirement to agree. Okay, so maybe I stayed on that tack for a little too long. I did it to prove a point. The kind of equipment you would need for a controlled demolition of the twin towers would be almost impossible to smuggle in. You're not talking about a suitcase worth of explosives, you're talking about several dump trucks. Literally hundreds and hundreds of miles of shock cord. You're talking about drilling and using cutting torches. You're talking about removing the existing cosmetic walls to get at the structural components. Now, where are the thousands upon thousands of visitors and employees who didn't die on 9/11 who are willing to claim that there were miles of shock cord snaking down every hallway? Where are the structural engineers (of which there were several firms who had offices in the WTC) stating that they saw workers cutting into structural supports? Why is it only complete and utter amateurs claiming that they heard "explosions" when they have no clue what a real explosion sounds like? It's so utterly implausible as to be completely insane. It's like claiming that a flying unicorn actually dropped the towers. Roll out as many "experts" and "eye-witnesses" as you want that will testify under oath that they saw said flying unicorn, it's still batshyte insane.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:30:00 - [97] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/09/2007 10:32:13 Originally by: Mortis Leme I'd reckon its time to show these criminals that their valued positions in top level of government isn't enough to protect them from justice. It seems that with manipulating the facts many ppl can be made to believe in most grotesks lies even tho they deep inside knows what happened, but are too afraid to comfort the truth. I believe the president could easily get away with shooting someone in the face in the street to be honest. Government, media and police stating it was only someone looking like the president. And most people will believe it, because they trust their government. Its the ultimate reliable source. Why would you believe some conspiracy nut telling you otherwise? --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:37:00 - [98] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/09/2007 10:39:01 Originally by: Amarria Black Now, where are the thousands upon thousands of visitors and employees who didn't die on 9/11 who are willing to claim that there were miles of shock cord snaking down every hallway? Well, I would guess the explosives was placed hidden in the maintenance areas which most people dont have access to. And then detonated by remote control. There may be no need for drilling at all. I doubt they drilled to be honest. But thats just a guess. Im just saying its possible. You are acting like it would be impossible to blow a building without normal workers knowing there are explosives in the building. You are also assuming the firemen cant identify a explosive charge. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:39:00 - [99] Originally by: Mortis Leme Edited by: Mortis Leme on 10/09/2007 10:18:54 Edited by: Mortis Leme on 10/09/2007 10:09:30 Isn't it obvious? When a plane hits building around its middle-parts, you'd expect it to collapse according that, not imploding from top down as it did. It was clearly a insurance fraud of grand scale, plus it allowed some megalomaniacs to put on their efforts to conquer world. You don't need to watch some tinfoil movies to make up your mind. Just watch how'd it collapse and draw the conclusion. But if you do like to watch tinfoil movies, then you'd prolly find the staggering amount of evidence against the official "tewwowists hit the building wit da planez and it's why dey collapz'd" - story I'd reckon its time to show these criminals that their valued positions in top level of government isn't enough to protect them from justice. It seems that with manipulating the facts many ppl can be made to believe in most grotesks lies even tho they deep inside knows what happened, but are too afraid to comfort the truth. Rectum Analis Absorbum. Thats what have happened. You are an idiot. It would take more than a plane to make the towers collapse the way you speak of. The WTC has a metal exoskeleton holding it up instead of normal concrete pillars. The planes did little damage to the building itself, but the inferno created by thousands og liters of fuel MELTED the steel causing the collapse. I just have to say once more you are an idiot. STAND OUT!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:40:00 - [100] Originally by: Jim McGregor Yes, you would have to trust the numerous firemen who said there was. Eye witnesses also say they see Jesus, the Devil or Elvis Pressley. Sorry Jim, you are an idiot. STAND OUT!
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:41:00 - [101] ITT: tinfoil hattery
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:42:00 - [102] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/09/2007 10:44:23 Originally by: Death Kill It would take more than a plane to make the towers collapse the way you speak of. The WTC has a metal exoskeleton holding it up instead of normal concrete pillars. The planes did little damage to the building itself, but the inferno created by thousands og liters of fuel MELTED the steel causing the collapse. How about the building that wasnt hit by a plane at all, and still went down in the exact same "controlled demolition" kind of a way? Originally by: Death Kill Sorry Jim, you are an idiot. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:45:00 - [103] Originally by: Jim McGregor Well, I would guess the explosives was placed hidden in the maintenance areas which most people dont have access to. And then detonated by remote control. But thats just a guess. Im just saying its possible. You are acting like it would be impossible to blow a building without normal workers knowing there are explosives in the building. You are also assuming the firemen cant identify a explosive charge. The kind of explosives you're discussing, in the quantities necessary to take down one of the towers, are the big scary explosion kind, not the take down a building kind. Apples and oranges, my friend. An explosion of that kind would've been visible from miles away, let alone on close-up footage. I'm telling you, the kind of explosives needed for the event you're describing would be incredibly self-evident.
Darwinia Minmatar	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:47:00 - [104] Well I for one believe it was all a big setup by the so called shadow goverment. What convinced me? 1.) Flight 93. In all the videos I've seen there is only a smoking hole in the ground.. no luggage, no wreckage etc. A major passenger liner slamming into the ground leaves hell of alot of wreckage. 2.)The plane that allegedly slammed into the Pentagon. To crash into the building at that angle it would have to approach right trough the surrounding buildings, and fly pracically at 0 altitude for several 100 meters. Good luck managing that with a passenger liner. Also, no wreckage was recovered (it evaporated). Also all the surveliance videos were promptly confiscated and none were declassified to this day (I guess they evaporated as well). Also the ground before the pentogon was covered in gravel and concrete was poured over it, making sure to destroy any remining clues. Cover up.. naaaah. ------------------------ I don't believe in sigs.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:47:00 - [105] Originally by: Jim McGregor How about the building that wasnt hit by a plane at all, and still went down in the exact same "controlled demolition" kind of a way? Okay, I'm done speaking to you. You're completely and utterly insane. I watched it. Millions watched it. Hundreds of thousands, several of which I can produce, watched it happen in-person. Planes hit buildings. Incontrovertibly true. You're the modern equivalent of a Holocaust denier.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:53:00 - [106] Originally by: Jim McGregor How about the building that wasnt hit by a plane at all, and still went down in the exact same "controlled demolition" kind of a way? 'controlled demolition' wtf? Stop reading crap like prisonplanet, its obvious its turning you into an idiot. you are ofcorse, already dangerously insane. STAND OUT!
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.10 10:56:00 - [107] Originally by: Darwinia Well I for one believe it was all a big setup by the so called shadow goverment. What convinced me? 1.) Flight 93. In all the videos I've seen there is only a smoking hole in the ground.. no luggage, no wreckage etc. A major passenger liner slamming into the ground leaves hell of alot of wreckage. 2.)The plane that allegedly slammed into the Pentagon. To crash into the building at that angle it would have to approach right trough the surrounding buildings, and fly pracically at 0 altitude for several 100 meters. Good luck managing that with a passenger liner. Also, no wreckage was recovered (it evaporated). Also all the surveliance videos were promptly confiscated and none were declassified to this day (I guess they evaporated as well). Also the ground before the pentogon was covered in gravel and concrete was poured over it, making sure to destroy any remining clues. Cover up.. naaaah. Tool STAND OUT!
DarkMatter Sintered Sanity	Posted - 2007.09.10 11:03:00 - [108] Quote: you are ofcorse, already dangerously insane. Either Jim's account was eBayed, or his brain was... My Current Project
Sooplex Amarr toxicology	Posted - 2007.09.10 11:04:00 - [109] Originally by: Amarria Black Originally by: Jim McGregor How about the building that wasnt hit by a plane at all, and still went down in the exact same "controlled demolition" kind of a way? Okay, I'm done speaking to you. You're completely and utterly insane. I watched it. Millions watched it. Hundreds of thousands, several of which I can produce, watched it happen in-person. Planes hit buildings. Incontrovertibly true. You're the modern equivalent of a Holocaust denier. Hold on with that one...Jim is referring to WTC7 which was not hit by a plane. I am hearing people when they ask how were explosives planted?...nobody knows, or has evidence. I would like to swing this thing round once again...please explain to me.. Why we have molten steel when it is impossible for this kind of fire to be hot enough (Only thermite or thermate can melt steel in this way)? What happened to the load-bearing central steel girders? If we had the pancake affect (floors collapsing) then these girders would be still sticking up in the air upto at least the point of the plane impact, and the collapse would be far from free-fall speed. The laws of physics suggest that if a building is hit on one side then it will topple to that side towards the damage when it collapses...for not one but three buildings to fall straight down at free fall speed defies science? Anyone got any theories on these points please? The question for me right now is not how or when explosives were planted but IF they were?
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:11:00 - [110] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/09/2007 12:14:26 Originally by: SoftRevolution What's really fascinating to me though is the psychology of all this. Same here, even though I am on the other side of the "fence", so to speak. It has been scientifically proven that the planes could not bring these buildings down, yet people continue to argue. Their conclusion (again): Since there was molten steel in the wreckage of the World Trade Center, and since the temperatures of the fires were insufficient to melt steel, and since the gravitational energy was shown to be very much smaller than the energy needed to melt steel, the Twin Towers and 7 WTC could only have been brought down by explosives or cutter charges. Like I said in some earlier post, I think this whole thing is more a emotional thing to most people. They dont want to believe the truth. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Sooplex Amarr toxicology	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:15:00 - [111] I would just like to commend everyone on keeping what is a sensitive subject in an almost sensible format. There are two very polarized camps and this could easily have descended into silly name calling, and apart from a couple of people trying to de-rail the thread with cries of "idiot!" (only making themselves appear so), it has remained a good debate. This is the bigger theory...HERE!!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:17:00 - [112] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/09/2007 12:17:12 Originally by: Sooplex I would just like to commend everyone on keeping what is a sensitive subject in an almost sensible format. There are two very polarized camps and this could easily have descended into silly name calling, and apart from a couple of people trying to de-rail the thread with cries of "idiot!" (only making themselves appear so), it has remained a good debate. Ive been called a idiot more times in this thread than in any other thread ive created. But it only shows how strongly people feel about this. --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:24:00 - [113] Edited by: SoftRevolution on 10/09/2007 12:28:48 edit Hah. Thread moved on while I was typing. Anyway, I've got the NIST report that conflicts with that. Now the second possibility on the other hand requires that I believe the elected government of a first world nation just got up one morning and decided to kill thousands of it's own people and then had the collective will and indeed the capability to carry out that action and to successfully execute a cover-up of unprecedented scale. I've highlighted each individual bit of "fat" I just automatically (brainwashing or common sense?) take occams razor to when looking at this. I'm not seeing any convincing motive for this. Insurance scam? Please. As if. I haven't got the numbers in front of me, but as a rule people like that tend to just get richer anyway. Without killing lots of people. World takeover? I'm not sure I recall Dubya being especially hawkish before this happened. And it's not like you're anything like on your way to a world takeover. You're getting Giap'd good and hard right up the Tet-hole everywhere you go from what I can see. I'd expect any organisation competent to carry out the "conspiracy" version of the attack to be able to see this coming. Then there's the "seeing it through" part. This was covered in one article or another in my first reply. Unless you also believe that the people behind this attack were greys or whatever they would all have to be sociopaths to go through with this from start to finish. Species loyalty would kick in at some point otherwise. As for the capability... I don't believe any of the units capable of doing this would be big enough or indeed complicit in something like this. I know scary blackops units who will murder primary schools on command are a staple of bad airport fiction but back in the real world there's only so many people with that degree of training to go around and as far as I know clinical psychopaths are not encouraged in those units. Then there's the whole "keeping it secret" bit. I have problems with that on the basis of competency and morality. Someone would have left a laptop in a taxi or had an attack of conscience and spilled the beans. That isn't any great statement of faith in human nature, just an observation based on the number of people that would surely have been involved. Do I have to go on? The mainstream version of events only demands that I accept that some men in the third world do not like us very much. The conspiracy version of events demands that I accept that there's all kinds of SECRET ORGANISATIONS going on and dramatically conflicts with any common sense understanding of the world, human nature, human stupidity etc. etc. I have arrived at. Do you see why the youtube-age isn't really doing it for me? I'm just fascinated as to why you seem to be making all of these leaps of faith in that direction. Don't get me wrong, I think it's commendable to question what gets passed off as reality and "common sense" understandings can very easily be wrong but all of this seems to require some real mental contortions to get to and to deem reasonable, from my starting point anyway.
Death Kill Caldari direkte	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:26:00 - [114] Originally by: Sooplex It is NOT possible for steel to melt at these temperatures. Steel melts at 2700 degrees...the maximum temperature from jet fuel is approx 1700 degrees. This is not conspiracy...it is SCIENCE. If steel melted at the temperature you are suggesting, then your pans would melt every time you cooked food. Please, dont use the term science in the same context as this tinfoilhattery. When heated steel becomes flexible and looses its strength. STAND OUT!
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:32:00 - [115] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/09/2007 12:32:47 Originally by: SoftRevolution Anyway, I've got the NIST report that conflicts with that. They even mention it in the report I linked. Here is what they write. "According to tests conducted by NIST, no WTC steel samples saw temperatures of 600 C, which is well below the melting point of steel." Or did you mean some other NIST report? --- The Disclosure Project \| My UFO Thread (read it!)
Azrael Maxim Flexible Demeanour	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:41:00 - [116] So anyways Jim is there a grand conspiracy theory to rule them all ? As in how do the 911 attacks have anything to do with the ufo's, kennedy assasination, the fake moonlandings, the elite illuminati that have been ruling us since egyptian times etc ? =) Or is there a line you draw somewhere ?
Doune	Posted - 2007.09.10 12:56:00 - [117] The motive is there without a doubt. Aside from the actual technicalities of how the building fell down you just need to look at the world oil situation. This has nothing to do with Iraq, that was just a convenient extra to back up the "War on Terror". It's all about the Caspian Sea area, any small amount of research will yield many sources that highlight this area as the last major untapped oil reserve left on the planet. The problem is it's surrounded by 3rd world countries that don't have the capital to exploit it. All those "Borat'stan" country's that you can never spell. As the largest oil consumer on the planet (by far) I think it's fair to say that the U.S has a vested interest in getting a piece of that action. Especially with China and Russia so close to the region and in a geographically superior position for extracting the oil by pipeline. You just need to look at a few maps of the region and it all starts to become very suspect. http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/images/casplarge.jpg An American funded pipe can't go north as that would go through Russia, it can't go south as that would take it through Iran. The whole region to the east is in political turmoil. That leaves one route out to a coastal region so it can be shipped by tanker back to the U.S. It's well documented that America have practically bought Pakistan with military/financial aid so that leaves one last piece of the pipeline puzzle. http://www.hcbamultan.com/image/pakistan.gif Afghanistan, a nation of goat farmers and politcal fanatics ruled by a guerilla military regime. Potentially dangerous to a civilian pipeline construction operation but a walk in the park for the greatest military superpower on the planet. Unfortunately, when you have the United Nations on your soil you can't go to war, you have to "Peacekeep". When faced with the prospect of killing 4,000 of your countrymen to secure the next 30 years of oil for the other 300,000,000... I don't think that's such a difficult judgement call to make.
Sokratesz Paradox v2.0 Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.10 13:07:00 - [118] And before you start the 'it loses integrity' argument, that would be minimal at jet fuel temperatures and it was built to withstand the impact of a much heavier-class plane (think it was 707?) as well as carry several times the current weight.
Miss Anthropy School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2007.09.10 13:15:00 - [119] The one main thing that really makes me want to believe all the conspiracy theories going around these days about 9/11 and American politics in general is this; George W Bush is simply too stupid to be President of the US. Have you heard this guy speak? He's an utter moron. There has to be someone behind him pulling the strings and telling him what to do and personally I believe it's the corporations. Hell is other people's ringtones.
Sooplex Amarr toxicology	Posted - 2007.09.10 13:18:00 - [120] Originally by: Death Kill Originally by: Sooplex It is NOT possible for steel to melt at these temperatures. Steel melts at 2700 degrees...the maximum temperature from jet fuel is approx 1700 degrees. This is not conspiracy...it is SCIENCE. If steel melted at the temperature you are suggesting, then your pans would melt every time you cooked food. Please, dont use the term science in the same context as this tinfoilhattery. When heated steel becomes flexible and looses its strength. Dude, you obviously are not prepared to listen to facts. You stated that the steel MELTED. Science, yes science says this is NOT possible. I was merely pointing this out, and of course SCIENCE is very important in this discussion. I suggest you watch the video and look at some documents before making blindfolded comments based on knowing very little about the subject except what you have heard in mainstream media and terror-jerk propaganda. I can accept if someone disagrees with me, giving a good debate or counter-theory, but I do not tolerate fools. /begone

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