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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:23:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 09/09/2007 21:23:51 "In terms of one slot vs power, damps are overpowered as such" - Oveur "Locking range and locking speed should not be on the same module" - Oveur
He discussed right-click context menus for nerfing damps. Thoughts/comments?
- Eve TV Alliance Tournament at 21:17 Eve-time
Liang
Yarr? |
Dred 'Morte
Winds of Dawn Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:24:00 -
[2]
Oh god, whiners won again. Fast! To the adaptmobile!
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Hoshi
Blackguard Brigade
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:27:00 -
[3]
Most likely it will get the same treatment as sensor boosters. They will be able to do both range and scan res reduction just not at the same time. You can switch the mod to what ever function you think is best at the time. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations |
Corwain
Gallente Kamite
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:30:00 -
[4]
RIP Amarr Recons Gallente Recons up next?
3/4 Recons nerfed. Can we get one for Minmatar?
-- A Solo Arbitrator vid, Distortion by Corwain |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.09 21:54:00 -
[5]
Damps which can only reduce locking range would still be an excellent module.
Exept that "getting close" - which is constantly mentioned as counter - is then actually a real counter.
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Blind Man
Angel Deep Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.09 22:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Corwain RIP Amarr Recons Gallente Recons up next?
3/4 Recons nerfed. Can we get one for Minmatar?
as if a target painting bonus isnt enough
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madaluap
Gallente Mercenary Forces Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.09.09 22:37:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Corwain RIP Amarr Recons Gallente Recons up next?
3/4 Recons nerfed. Can we get one for Minmatar?
as if a target painting bonus isnt enough
Being able to web a target outside disrupter (t2) range, combined with highspeeds and decent dps output makes minmatar recons very powerfull.
Target painting is nice when a huggin flies in combination with torp raven gangs. _________________________________________________ Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Kagura Nikon
Minmatar Guardians of the Dawn Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.09 23:41:00 -
[8]
I really think they should not be separated. Just nerfed to a reasonable level (like 40% for a max skilled one)
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.10 00:12:00 -
[9]
damps need to be nerfed. They need a low slot fitting mod like ecm has, and possibly make them chance based.
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SpaceTrucker 3000
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Posted - 2007.09.10 00:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Blind Man
Originally by: Corwain RIP Amarr Recons Gallente Recons up next?
3/4 Recons nerfed. Can we get one for Minmatar?
as if a target painting bonus isnt enough
Apparently it isn't enough, because the Huginn is the only recon that doesn't get better fitting stats. |
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.10 00:30:00 -
[11]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy damps need to be nerfed. They need a low slot fitting mod like ecm has, and possibly make them chance based.
No, they just need nerfed a tiny bit. He didn't make it sound like they were omgwtfbbqhax overpowered - and they're not! Just nerf them on non-bonused ships!
Liang
Yarr? |
Wrayeth
Shiva Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.09.10 01:42:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Wrayeth on 10/09/2007 01:43:12
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 09/09/2007 21:23:51 "In terms of one slot vs power, damps are overpowered as such" - Oveur "Locking range and locking speed should not be on the same module" - Oveur
He discussed right-click context menus for nerfing damps. Thoughts/comments?
- Eve TV Alliance Tournament at 21:17 Eve-time
Liang
All I have to say is: HELL YEAH! About time. \o/
Originally by: Aramendel Damps which can only reduce locking range would still be an excellent module.
Exept that "getting close" - which is constantly mentioned as counter - is then actually a real counter.
Exactly.
P.S. This is why Oveur is made of 75% pure win (the other 25% is alchohol ). -Wrayeth n00b Extraordinaire
"Look, pa! I just contributed absolutely nothing to this thread!" |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.10 02:17:00 -
[13]
If damps were seperated into two modules: range and lock time, would be fine, but only if the stats for each specialty module were better than the existing combined modules stats.
Example: Muon damp has -48% lock range, and -48% scan res bonus.
The new modules should have something like -54% lock range and -54% scan res bonus, but in seperate modules.
The reasoning: you're using double the slots to do the same job as was previously capable with one slot. Two modules combined should therefore do a slightly better job than the one existing module that they replace.
Additionally, I think that the damp ships (Arazu, Lachesis, Celestis) should get their damp bonuses increased, and the overall damp effectiveness decreased, so that their damp effectiveness remains the same, while it is reduced by a small amount for ships that are not specifically designed to use damps.
That would go a long way to help balance damps.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.10 02:27:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus If damps were seperated into two modules: range and lock time, would be fine, but only if the stats for each specialty module were better than the existing combined modules stats.
Why? 3 phased muon damps will take a target from 200km lock to like 10km lock. On a lach/arazu it gets worse.
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Jordan Musgrat
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.09.10 02:28:00 -
[15]
This makes me happy. I guess it's impractical, but it would be nice to have 2 skills for these, instead of 1 that affects range/res as well. But too late for that. -----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
6Bagheera9
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.10 02:29:00 -
[16]
Could we just try nerfing the raw numbers for a change rather than getting all tangled up in reworking the game? Jesus.
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omiNATION
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Posted - 2007.09.10 02:33:00 -
[17]
Here's a dumb idea no one will like. Why not make them racial?
Right now sensor strength only affects ECM right? why not make them effect damps too? Stronger sensor strength reduces damp effectiveness, also most effective against racial damps, while general purpose damp works equally well on all 4 ship types, but overall less effective.
What we'd see is that overall the effect is the same as it is now, assuming that you're using the same racial type, with a 10% or so decrease in effectiveness if you're using the general damp.
I like damps just the way they are, but i think the tournament more or less put to rest any arguement that damps are the dominating EW right now
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aUTOKILL
Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.10 02:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: KD.Fluffy damps need to be nerfed. They need a low slot fitting mod like ecm has, and possibly make them chance based.
you fail this thread, ECM is chance based, not damps. If damps were to become chance based (no way in hell) then people would just fit ecm instead, why mess up their lock range when you can jam them at 2x the range?
Originally by: omiNATION Here's a dumb idea no one will like. Why not make them racial?
no thats what ecm is for....
~~~~~~
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Scordaf
Ganja Labs Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.09.10 03:01:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Scordaf on 10/09/2007 03:02:44
Originally by: Dred 'Morte Oh god, whiners won again. Fast! To the adaptmobile!
I don't actually think this case has much to do with whiners.
All it takes is for any schleb to watch the damp-fest yawn-a-thon that is the Eve Alliance Tournament to see that damps are overpowered.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Blood Corsair's The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.10 03:19:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Scordaf Edited by: Scordaf on 10/09/2007 03:02:44
Originally by: Dred 'Morte Oh god, whiners won again. Fast! To the adaptmobile!
I don't actually think this case has much to do with whiners.
All it takes is for any schleb to watch the damp-fest yawn-a-thon that is the Eve Alliance Tournament to see that damps are overpowered.
There was just as much ECM and ECM drones in the fights as there were damps.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
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Hotshothotshot1
Atomic Heroes The OSS
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Posted - 2007.09.10 03:59:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Hotshothotshot1 on 10/09/2007 04:00:48 All attacking weapons should be highslots including EW, Scram& web. That way there wouldnt be a solopwn ship witch damps you too hell and still loads of firepower to kill you, or web you to hell. So if you want to Damp someone to hell you will have to exchange dps for it. On top of that if you want to scram and web someone too then you either go all EW and no dps or suck at both.
Things wont have to get nerfed then, more gang instead of solo? make attacking mods highslot mods
Nos/neuts are highslots, guns, missiles, lasers all highs. These mods "ATTACK" the targets, so why arent webs, scram, tracking disruptors, damps and ECM highslots.
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Karanth
Gallente Cirrius Technologies O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.09.10 04:47:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Hotshothotshot1 Edited by: Hotshothotshot1 on 10/09/2007 04:00:48 All attacking weapons should be highslots including EW, Scram& web. That way there wouldnt be a solopwn ship witch damps you too hell and still loads of firepower to kill you, or web you to hell. So if you want to Damp someone to hell you will have to exchange dps for it. On top of that if you want to scram and web someone too then you either go all EW and no dps or suck at both.
Things wont have to get nerfed then, more gang instead of solo? make attacking mods highslot mods
Nos/neuts are highslots, guns, missiles, lasers all highs. These mods "ATTACK" the targets, so why arent webs, scram, tracking disruptors, damps and ECM highslots.
/signed.
Free beer for those who mod my sig!
There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. I'll see your beer, and raise you a goat kebab -Tirg I'll take that pint and raise you two -Timmeh I bet 2 goats, 1 pint and a bag of slugs -Lordharold I grab it all, cook it/eat and drink it all and say thank you. -Pirlouit I'll call your bluff, and go all in on 3 locks of Hutch's hair. -Incognus I'll see that bet, depending on where the hair came from. -Rauth *pushes the other mods out of the way* Mmmm, bree - Karass Bree & goat kebabs!!! I'm in!! - Yips IT WAS ME, MUHAHAHA. -Hango How did I miss free BREE!!? -Kaemonn always fashionably late - Deckard Better late than never! -Sahwoolo |
Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.09.10 04:48:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Hotshothotshot1 Edited by: Hotshothotshot1 on 10/09/2007 04:00:48 All attacking weapons should be highslots including EW, Scram& web. That way there wouldnt be a solopwn ship witch damps you too hell and still loads of firepower to kill you, or web you to hell. So if you want to Damp someone to hell you will have to exchange dps for it. On top of that if you want to scram and web someone too then you either go all EW and no dps or suck at both.
Things wont have to get nerfed then, more gang instead of solo? make attacking mods highslot mods
Nos/neuts are highslots, guns, missiles, lasers all highs. These mods "ATTACK" the targets, so why arent webs, scram, tracking disruptors, damps and ECM highslots.
Unless you were a drone ship, which get tons of new mods to put in the high slots that you arenty perfectly abusing with nos anymore.
Mids for ew is fine
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KD.Fluffy
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.10 04:53:00 -
[24]
Quote: you fail this thread, ECM is chance based, not damps. If damps were to become chance based (no way in hell) then people would just fit ecm instead, why mess up their lock range when you can jam them at 2x the range?
as it stands right now ecm has no point. Everyone uses damps instead because it works much more effectivly. Maybe damps just need to only work on bonused ships like ecm... Also I still feel a high slot is needed for damp strenght, why should ecm be required to fit this but not damps?
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Theron Gyrow
Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.09.10 06:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Bellum Eternus If damps were seperated into two modules: range and lock time, would be fine, but only if the stats for each specialty module were better than the existing combined modules stats.
Why? 3 phased muon damps will take a target from 200km lock to like 10km lock. On a lach/arazu it gets worse.
Point of fact: three phased muon damps with advanced skill at level 4 and no ship bonus will take a target from 200km lock to about 27km lock range. At level 5 skill, a hair under 24km.
( At least if the skill works as I think it does: the first damp drops the locking range to (1-base_locking_range_reduction)*(1-adv_skill*0.05) = 0.52 * 0.8 = 0.416. ) -- Gradient forum |
Hugh Ruka
Caldari Free Traders
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Posted - 2007.09.10 06:27:00 -
[26]
finaly.
or make them racial like ECM. or make their effect based on target/dampner sensor strength (i.e you need more sensor than enemy to realise full damp effect).
Originally by: Aravel Thon
Originally by: Nith Batoxxx Hi my alt just leanred to fly the ferox...............
I am so so terribly sorry...
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.10 06:38:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Theron Gyrow
Originally by: Goumindong
Originally by: Bellum Eternus If damps were seperated into two modules: range and lock time, would be fine, but only if the stats for each specialty module were better than the existing combined modules stats.
Why? 3 phased muon damps will take a target from 200km lock to like 10km lock. On a lach/arazu it gets worse.
Point of fact: three phased muon damps with advanced skill at level 4 and no ship bonus will take a target from 200km lock to about 27km lock range. At level 5 skill, a hair under 24km.
( At least if the skill works as I think it does: the first damp drops the locking range to (1-base_locking_range_reduction)*(1-adv_skill*0.05) = 0.52 * 0.8 = 0.416. )
Goumin, I'm really surprised to see you not make a graph of that. Of course, it could be because you're wrong. 3 phased muons from a *perfectly skilled arazu* takes a Rokh to 19 km lock range. But he can still lock - and hell, effective PVP range is about 25km.
By comparison, a perfectly skilled non bonused ship, the Cormorant for instance, fielding 3 phased muon damps (for instance) takes the same Rokh to 33km locking range.
I'll admit that 33km is alot like 10km, but its really not.
Liang
Yarr? |
Aramendel
Amarr Coreli Corporation Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.10 06:50:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Goumin, I'm really surprised to see you not make a graph of that. Of course, it could be because you're wrong. 3 phased muons from a *perfectly skilled arazu* takes a Rokh to 19 km lock range. But he can still lock - and hell, effective PVP range is about 25km.
A rokh with a shortrange (aka 25k or less) setup won't be using 2 sensor boosters.
And it has an exeptionally high targeting range for BS. Try a geddon or typhoon.
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.09.10 06:52:00 -
[29]
*yawn*
Instead of PvP being an EW/DPS/Tank affair you want to turn it into DPS/Tank?
yay for dumbing the game down :/.
--- -The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs
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Liang Nuren
The Refugees
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Posted - 2007.09.10 06:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: Liang Nuren Goumin, I'm really surprised to see you not make a graph of that. Of course, it could be because you're wrong. 3 phased muons from a *perfectly skilled arazu* takes a Rokh to 19 km lock range. But he can still lock - and hell, effective PVP range is about 25km.
A rokh with a shortrange (aka 25k or less) setup won't be using 2 sensor boosters.
And it has an exeptionally high targeting range for BS. Try a geddon or typhoon.
TBH, I was picking on his obscene lack of precision - considering how he flames the holy living **** out of everyone else for it.
So I had no choice but to use his own example.
Liang
Yarr? |
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