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Karash Amerius
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.03 18:25:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Karash Amerius on 03/10/2007 18:25:48 Well it does have the highest shield hp rating, highest CPU, and largest starting cargo capacity of any Blockade Runner. I would say it has the most mid slots as well...but with vanilla shield resistances, those are used up in a big way for shield modules.
What irks me the most, is all blockade runners get two 5% type bonuses while the Crane gets one 10% bonus. But the 10% bonus is TOTALLY USELESS for the ship and its intended role. Sure, the other transports are pretty useless in their bonuses too...but the Crane just adds insult to injury :)
Ex-Merc Blog |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:23:00 -
[32]
Highest base cargo, yeah. But high mass, low speed, and only two lowslots.
So if you _want_ lots of cargo, the viator and prorator can be larger. If you want speed or agility... well, all the others can be faster and more agile.
*shrug* I agree, that shield resists on your hauler is a real nicety, leaving your lows for speed or hauling mods. But ... well, if the Crane could fit a MWD, 3x hardeners and a cloak, along with a couple of nanofibers, then I think it'd be a well balanced ship - larger, but slower than all the others. (Marginally, anyway) and less versatile in terms of cargo <-> speed tradeoff.
But yes, the 10% boost amount bonus ... I don't think I've ever used. I'm fairly sure none of the other blockade runners use their tanking bonuses either. *shrug* resists bonus, shield hP amount, or ... well something else, would be good.
-- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Karash Amerius
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.09 23:26:00 -
[33]
The problem in general with any shield defense based ship is that most shield modules actually add signifigant signature radius penalties. Really, when it comes to the 'size' of all the transport ships, its irrelavent since the armor tankers have MWD and the shield tankers usually have extenders on.
I agree with all other points though...and I agree that a MWD needs to be pretty much on any 'transport' ship, especially the blockade runners, but its not the biggest issue of the class (the active tanking in regards to capacitor use is).
Ex-Merc Blog |
Trojanman190
Caldari Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.10.10 00:11:00 -
[34]
What is this whining about powergrid? In order to use my prowlers tank I need to fit a powergrid mod. No more whining about your crane's powergrid and we need some serious whining about the most useless bonus of anyship. Why an active tanking bonus????
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Trojanman190 What is this whining about powergrid? In order to use my prowlers tank I need to fit a powergrid mod. No more whining about your crane's powergrid and we need some serious whining about the most useless bonus of anyship. Why an active tanking bonus????
You don't need a grid mod to fit a MWD though. You can, in fact, fit a MWD, 2 nanos, and some shield hardeners, and a cloak.
Crane cannot. Hence this thread. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Harlequ1n
FireTech Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 23:00:00 -
[36]
bumpity - to keep this problem in the public eye, its only a couple of extra pg...
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Ulstan
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:45:00 -
[37]
The Crane definitely should get more powergrid to fix the MWD issue: it has the least powergrid and the smallest ability to raise it's powergrid due to lack of low slots.
However, I'm more concerned about the overall useless bonuses on blockade runners. I'd love to see them changed to something that would actually enhance the function of blockade runners and encourage training the skill to higher levels.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.31 15:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ulstan The Crane definitely should get more powergrid to fix the MWD issue: it has the least powergrid and the smallest ability to raise it's powergrid due to lack of low slots.
However, I'm more concerned about the overall useless bonuses on blockade runners. I'd love to see them changed to something that would actually enhance the function of blockade runners and encourage training the skill to higher levels.
Transport ships, and especially blockade runners are mostly obseleted by carriers these days. Never the less, I still like the Crane as a ship, and think it really wouldn't be overpowered by that 4 more grid, and would instead become eminently well balanced a ship.
I'm not quite sure what bonus you could give a blockade runner that would be 'ok' - I broadly think they're fairly good at the moment. Maybe +1 point of warp core stability a level? -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Harlequ1n
FireTech Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.31 15:08:00 -
[39]
Bonus's should be for agility and speed, to get into warp quicker or back to the gate quicker.
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Harlequ1n
FireTech Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.31 15:09:00 -
[40]
...+1 warp stab strength per level would be overpowered IMO, but the Crane desperately needs that extra few PG...
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.10.31 17:35:00 -
[41]
+4 powergrid /signed.
I mean come on, let it fit a damn MWD. ☺☻☺☻☺ SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer |
Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar Pyrrhus Sicarii The Church.
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Posted - 2007.11.04 08:46:00 -
[42]
I agree with Mr. Lyrus. +4 Powergrid for great justice.
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Karash Amerius
Evolution Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.08 19:41:00 -
[43]
I would like to see a entire transport revamp...not just the crane but the whole class of ships.
Ex-Merc Blog |
Aprudena Gist
Caldari Capital Development and Security Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.08 20:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Arana Tellen The 0.0 transports should be immune to ewar IMO, only bubbles should stop them, which is not that hard to do to be fair (I don't fly them but that seems sensible to me).
If you did that you would end up with battle badgers round 2.
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Harlequ1n
FireTech Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.16 11:40:00 -
[45]
Bumpage for +4 PG and a transport skill that is worth training. Lets keep this one on the Dev's radar...
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Dsnakes
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Posted - 2007.11.16 11:56:00 -
[46]
/Signed +4 pg
Or change the transport bonus to MWD fitting. Like -10% PG requirement per lvl.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente Gradient Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:16:00 -
[47]
Yeah, Crane could use a bit of help, and all the deep space transports could use a bit of a boost, tbh. A Transports skill bonus that would make it worthwhile to train it over lvl1 would also be nice, of course.
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Harlequ1n
FireTech Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 15:00:00 -
[48]
With the introduction of the Heavy Interdictor + focused script, it will become essential to fit an MWD on a BR to stand any chance of avoiding a low-sec camp. The Crane currently cannot do this without sever drawbacks - even more reason for an extra 4 PG...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:44:00 -
[49]
Well, seems like this didn't make it in for Trinity. (And yes, I am shamelessly bumping it).
As a more general discussion though, how about if blockade runners in general, also got: 6 highslots (same number of turret/launcher hardpoints) Role bonus: 100% range on tractor beams
In addition to the 4 powergrid the Crane Really Really needs of course. -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking? GMP and TNP |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.12.16 22:42:00 -
[50]
I just wanted to point at the intellectual dishonesty of the OP that made the same whine exactly in October 2006 (see the original thread). In the ensuing thread quite a few points where made, most notably the Prowler having only two low and also having to use a fitting mod to fit a medium shield booster (and it got an active shield tanking bonus, so it only makes sense).
Yet in 2007 James serves us exactly the same whine, without even bothering fixing his errors. The poster boy Caldari whiner.
Whatever you read from James Lyrus, make sure it's fresh and not out of the fridge after one year... And don't bother replying, he obviously don't care. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.12.16 22:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: James Lyrus Well, seems like this didn't make it in for Trinity. (And yes, I am shamelessly bumping it).
Hint: an argument is stronger when not based on lies. The first time around one year ago it could have been errors, but the Prowler real number of low slots was pointed to you yet you insist on misrepresenting it again.
See you in Autumn 2008 for Crane powergrid whine mk3. I don't see it boosted before someone made a proper argument.
-- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.12.16 23:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev I just wanted to point at the intellectual dishonesty of the OP that made the same whine exactly in October 2006 (see the original thread). In the ensuing thread quite a few points where made, most notably the Prowler having only two low and also having to use a fitting mod to fit a medium shield booster (and it got an active shield tanking bonus, so it only makes sense).
Yet in 2007 James serves us exactly the same whine, without even bothering fixing his errors. The poster boy Caldari whiner.
Whatever you read from James Lyrus, make sure it's fresh and not out of the fridge after one year... And don't bother replying, he obviously don't care.
Ok, so james did make a mistake, the prowler only has 2 low slots. This doesn't change the FACT that every other transport can throw on a MWD without fitting mods. This is just wrong.
Oh and as far as your medium shield booste whine, it will still be harder for the crane to fit a medium shield booster after the +4 powergrid than the prowler.
For real, this is like the dumbest thing ever to argue about. What makes the crane sooo special that it should not be able to run a MWD w/o a PG mod?
Oh, yes the Crane gets a 25% shield resistance bonus, but the prowler gets a much faster base speed and lower mass, both much more important to a BLOCKADE RUNNER.
TO sum up, yes he was mistaken about the lows, but that doesn't change the fact that he is right. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.12.16 23:22:00 -
[53]
Originally by: shinsushi
TO sum up, yes he was mistaken about the lows, but that doesn't change the fact that he is right.
Maybe mistaken the first time, for sure a liar the second. He got an agenda and will use every means to achieve it.
It's not like he didn't aknowlege the error the first time around. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.12.16 23:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: shinsushi What makes the crane sooo special that it should not be able to run a MWD w/o a PG mod?
Because when you take in account MWD+tanking gear they are way more balanced tahn James gives credit for. Crane and Prowler need a PDS but the other armor tank and can't even really fit the istab that the Crane and Prowler can fit. You must compare the ships abilities will full fit not naked with just a MWD.
If you boost the Prowler and Crane grid so they can fit a MWD without fitting mod they'll end up fitting more speed/agility gear in those lows and will be really imbalanced compared to the Viator and Prorator. -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.12.17 01:19:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: shinsushi What makes the crane sooo special that it should not be able to run a MWD w/o a PG mod?
Because when you take in account MWD+tanking gear they are way more balanced tahn James gives credit for. Crane and Prowler need a PDS but the other armor tank and can't even really fit the istab that the Crane and Prowler can fit. You must compare the ships abilities will full fit not naked with just a MWD.
If you boost the Prowler and Crane grid so they can fit a MWD without fitting mod they'll end up fitting more speed/agility gear in those lows and will be really imbalanced compared to the Viator and Prorator.
Wouldn't this argument hold true aswell for any shield tanking minnie/caldari vessel then? None of them should have the PG to fit guns and a MWD without a fitting mod due to their ability to just then nano it up?
The way I see it is that the #1 thing to fit on a blockade runner is a MWD, that goes on before anything else. The prowler can still fit a small booster and something of a tank, and still nano it up right?
Even beyond any of this, isn't the spare low-slots for the nanoing already dealt with by having only 2 lows? I really do not understand your logic. An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.12.17 02:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: shinsushi
The way I see it is that the #1 thing to fit on a blockade runner is a MWD, that goes on before anything else. The prowler can still fit a small booster and something of a tank, and still nano it up right?
Even beyond any of this, isn't the spare low-slots for the nanoing already dealt with by having only 2 lows? I really do not understand your logic.
On the armor tankers blockade runners especially the gallente one, after you fitted a small rep and an explosive hardener only room for one istab. (The amarr one actually could be nanoed up nicely due to its even native resists). But if you Give the prowler and crane more pg you can know for sure their lowslots will be istabs and that will make them really much better then the gallente one at least.
It's not like blockade runners are not used the same from all races. Warp fast and when you can't burn back to gate tanking the damage. As a shipclass the blockade runners are pretty balanced in my view now, the suggestion of the op would break that. The option of giving them more grid and removing a low would make them less flexible (thinking battle haulers there ). -- Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:02:00 -
[57]
I can't believe you @ssholes would be arguing over whether or not the Crane gets 4 more PG or not. It's a hauler FFS. Are you going to be taking over entire systems with Cranes? Is the change going to be the one factor that destroys your game playing experience? I think not.
Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:24:00 -
[58]
Signed. --
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Aldelphius
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.12.17 04:03:00 -
[59]
/sign
4 base PG (hell, I would take 2 base PG) would make the cran much more in line with the rest of the transports. as it was stated, if you have to activly tank anything, your probably done for. MWD speed is vital for getting past a bubble in 0.0. In low sec, you dont have to worry bout the bubble, but you still need to get to warp fast. The crane is the heaviest transport with the fewest slots to improve align times. Giving it the ability to at least equip a MWD and have 3-4 PG left over brings it much more inline with the rest of the transports.
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kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando Phoenix Allianz
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Posted - 2007.12.17 10:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Aldelphius /sign 4 base PG (hell, I would take 2 base PG)
Hell I would even appreciate one friggin point of powergrid. 1 Named MWD plus Cloak is all i can ever need for hauling my loot out of 0.0.
Now I have a friggin Power Diag on it to fit only those two modules. It's a plain joke.
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