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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.10 10:53:00 -
[1]
Cranes (as with all blockade runners) got noticably improved in the most recent patch. This makes me happy, because as a concept I love the idea, and I really like the Crane.
But...
Any chance of just a few more powergrid? This ship has _exactly_ the right grid to fit a MWD. Which means grid mods are needed, to fit anything at all in midslots. (3 remaining).
Please could we have just 5 more grid on this ship? heck, 3 would be enough.
Crane - Base grid 120 (150 with Eng 5) - 2 lows
Prowler - base grid 130 (162.5)- 3 lows
Viator - base grid 135 (168.75) - 3 lows
Prorator - base 150 grid (187.5), 4 lows
Which means every Blockade Runner except the crane, can fill their slots with 'low powergrid' modules (e.g. hardeners, cap mods, speed mods) _and_ fit a T1 MWD.
Viator and Prorator can fit a 10mn MWD II and still do the same.
The Crane's the slowest and heaviest blockade runner, with the least lowslots already. It doesn't really need the additional handicap of having to use a PDS II to fit 3 shield hardners.
(Or heaven forbid, a PDS II _and_ an RCU to squeeze a MWD II on there, and fill the mids).
4 powergrid would make all the difference to this ship. 16 would be even better, because then I can fit a MWD II, 3 hardeners _and a cloak_. The Viator and Prorator can both fit a MWD II, Cloak, and fill their mids with '1 grid' mods. Although there's a good case to be made for being able to fill lows + mids with 1 grid mods, for hardeners. (Since speed mods are 0 power grid, but hardeners aren't)
Please, if blockade runners are supposed to be MWD capable, can they please _all_ be MWD capable, without requiring low slots on those with least to spare.
(This is a repost of this thread because this might be the more appropriate location)
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.10 10:58:00 -
[2]
Signed, untill now i always needed a PDU in order to fill the mids after a MWD :(
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Damneia Achernius
Northen Breeze
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Posted - 2007.09.10 11:20:00 -
[3]
i stoped flying crane and trained amarr transports just because of the PG issue :(
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.10 14:15:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Damneia Achernius
i stoped flying crane and trained amarr transports just because of the PG issue :(
I'm considering it. I like the Crane, but having to stretch that hard to get a MWD on, really does make me consider the slog to _another_ indy 5
Crane needs more grid |
Chejun Ishari
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Posted - 2007.09.10 15:21:00 -
[5]
Signed...
Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
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Mona X
Caldari
C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.09.10 15:30:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Damneia Achernius
i stoped flying crane and trained amarr transports just because of the PG issue :(
Yes, most PG and lowslots. Not mentioning best looking freighter. :)
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
/Signed.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.10 18:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Signed...
Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
I'm also unconvinced about the repair or boosting bonuses that the Blockade runners have - DSTs, yeah, tank 'em up. Blockade runners though, just... hmmm. No there's not really any situations where a shield booster will be useful.
Perhaps a resists or just plain armour (or shield) HP bonus would work better. More suited to the 'run like hell'. +1 WCS/level would also work fairly well, although it would mean that you'd be able to get 9 points of stabs on a prorator.
*shrug* there's more general design problems with blockade runners, but the most recent agility fix has done a _lot_ of good at improving that situation. It's just the Crane suffering a bit at the moment, because of the 'MWD issue'.
Crane needs more grid |
madaluap
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
Exquisite Malevolence
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Posted - 2007.09.10 19:03:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Signed...
Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
I agree, if you need to active tank on a blockade runner/deep space transport, you are doing something wrong.
Extra stabstrenght/lvl and more armor/shield capacity is tbh the perfect boost.
And giving the crane 5 units of extra pg will actually make it decent.
_________________________________________________
Breetime
A killmail!11!1 omgrawr: BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA |
Karash Amerius
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.10 19:55:00 -
[9]
rigs
Ex-Merc Blog |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.10 20:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: madaluap
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Signed...
Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
I agree, if you need to active tank on a blockade runner/deep space transport, you are doing something wrong.
Extra stabstrenght/lvl and more armor/shield capacity is tbh the perfect boost.
And giving the crane 5 units of extra pg will actually make it decent.
Agreed.
[Video]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
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Ezekial Crow
Gallente
Dark Star LTD
Dogs of War.
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Posted - 2007.09.10 20:27:00 -
[11]
Correction, the Prowler has two low slots. Its hard to fit the thing if you want a mwd and shield extenders.
Im The F'ing Pope Now!!! |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.10 21:30:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Karash Amerius
rigs
You are indeed correct that it's possible to use rigs to fit your Crane.
Or you could use a PDU or RCU. Or you could use one of those powergrid implants.
However, you _don't_ for any of the other blockade runners.
If inclined to fit rigs, then there's also several other rigs that make it quite useful to do it's job, including not least stuffing some polycarbons on there.
Or you could go and acquire some 10mn Digital Booster rockets, which are only 135 grid. But ... well, they're a little challenging to acquire, and thus ... well, I couldn't actually see any, so I have no idea what they go for.
However, this is not the point. The point is, the Crane has 2 lowslots, and 150 grid.
A MWD takes 150 grid, even if you use dead space or faction - the _only_ option is an unusual cosmos one.
The Crane is the only blockade runner that needs fittings mods to get a MWD and fill its midslots with 1 powergrid modules. It's also the blockade runner with the fewest lowslots to spare - I'll not dispute it being the heaviest and the slowest, as that seems to be the trend with Caldari ships, but to be the heaviest, slowest, _and_ have to sacrifice a lowslot (or rig slot, as you so eloquently point out) seems somehow just a little too much.
This is, of course, assuming that you _need_ a MWD on your blockade runner for it to do it's job. I do. I also really would like to have something else on my ship, than a MWD and 2 nanofibers. It just seems so very wrong to be leaving slots entirely empty, because quite literally nothing will fit.
Crane needs more grid |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.10 21:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ezekial Crow
Correction, the Prowler has two low slots. Its hard to fit the thing if you want a mwd and shield extenders.
I stand corrected. I wouldn't mind so much having trouble squeezing extenders on the Crane. I do feel bitter though, about having trouble fitting shield hardeners, due to being constrained by powergrid. (Or anything else for that matter. There's remarkably little that you can put in a mid, that uses no powergrid at all, and lets not even start on that highslot)
Crane needs more grid |
Aramendel
Amarr
Coreli Corporation
Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.09.11 07:06:00 -
[14]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Ezekial Crow
Correction, the Prowler has two low slots. Its hard to fit the thing if you want a mwd and shield extenders.
I stand corrected. I wouldn't mind so much having trouble squeezing extenders on the Crane. I do feel bitter though, about having trouble fitting shield hardeners, due to being constrained by powergrid. (Or anything else for that matter. There's remarkably little that you can put in a mid, that uses no powergrid at all, and lets not even start on that highslot)
Seesh, we already told you that 2-3 times in the old thread  
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.12 20:25:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Aramendel
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Ezekial Crow
Correction, the Prowler has two low slots. Its hard to fit the thing if you want a mwd and shield extenders.
I stand corrected. I wouldn't mind so much having trouble squeezing extenders on the Crane. I do feel bitter though, about having trouble fitting shield hardeners, due to being constrained by powergrid. (Or anything else for that matter. There's remarkably little that you can put in a mid, that uses no powergrid at all, and lets not even start on that highslot)
Seesh, we already told you that 2-3 times in the old thread
Yeah, I know. In hindsight though, it got my thread bumped. Maybe I should make more deliberate errors next time :)
Crane needs more grid |
Chejun Ishari
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Posted - 2007.09.13 14:46:00 -
[16]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Signed...
Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
I'm also unconvinced about the repair or boosting bonuses that the Blockade runners have - DSTs, yeah, tank 'em up. Blockade runners though, just... hmmm. No there's not really any situations where a shield booster will be useful.
Perhaps a resists or just plain armour (or shield) HP bonus would work better. More suited to the 'run like hell'. +1 WCS/level would also work fairly well, although it would mean that you'd be able to get 9 points of stabs on a prorator.
*shrug* there's more general design problems with blockade runners, but the most recent agility fix has done a _lot_ of good at improving that situation. It's just the Crane suffering a bit at the moment, because of the 'MWD issue'.
I don't really see the point of 9 stab points on a prolator. Getting 9 points would mean maxing the transport skill and putting lows full of Stabs. A bubble will still hold you and you might be better off fitting istabs or nanos in lows.
As it is I don't see the point of training transport past level 1.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.14 06:43:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Signed...
Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
I'm also unconvinced about the repair or boosting bonuses that the Blockade runners have - DSTs, yeah, tank 'em up. Blockade runners though, just... hmmm. No there's not really any situations where a shield booster will be useful.
Perhaps a resists or just plain armour (or shield) HP bonus would work better. More suited to the 'run like hell'. +1 WCS/level would also work fairly well, although it would mean that you'd be able to get 9 points of stabs on a prorator.
*shrug* there's more general design problems with blockade runners, but the most recent agility fix has done a _lot_ of good at improving that situation. It's just the Crane suffering a bit at the moment, because of the 'MWD issue'.
I don't really see the point of 9 stab points on a prolator. Getting 9 points would mean maxing the transport skill and putting lows full of Stabs. A bubble will still hold you and you might be better off fitting istabs or nanos in lows.
As it is I don't see the point of training transport past level 1.
Well, you're correct. But ... at least the 'more stabs' bonus would actaully be more worth training than currently. I mean, as you say, there's really not a lot of point pushing to transport ships >1, because that tanking bonus is just a complete waste - if you're tanking, you're already screwed.
It's -marginally- more useful on the DSTs but there's not that much in it.
Crane needs more grid |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.19 23:03:00 -
[18]
Well, I guess with upcoming new ships, this might be a useful addition?
Crane needs more grid |
Chejun Ishari
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Posted - 2007.09.20 09:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Chejun Ishari
Signed...
Also I don't like the shiled boost/armor rep boost on any of the transport ships. For the blockade runners it should be changed to +1 warp core strenght per lvl (removing the inherent +2 of course!) and for the deep space transports maybe a bonus to armor/shield capacity.
I'm also unconvinced about the repair or boosting bonuses that the Blockade runners have - DSTs, yeah, tank 'em up. Blockade runners though, just... hmmm. No there's not really any situations where a shield booster will be useful.
Perhaps a resists or just plain armour (or shield) HP bonus would work better. More suited to the 'run like hell'. +1 WCS/level would also work fairly well, although it would mean that you'd be able to get 9 points of stabs on a prorator.
*shrug* there's more general design problems with blockade runners, but the most recent agility fix has done a _lot_ of good at improving that situation. It's just the Crane suffering a bit at the moment, because of the 'MWD issue'.
I don't really see the point of 9 stab points on a prolator. Getting 9 points would mean maxing the transport skill and putting lows full of Stabs. A bubble will still hold you and you might be better off fitting istabs or nanos in lows.
As it is I don't see the point of training transport past level 1.
Well, you're correct. But ... at least the 'more stabs' bonus would actaully be more worth training than currently. I mean, as you say, there's really not a lot of point pushing to transport ships >1, because that tanking bonus is just a complete waste - if you're tanking, you're already screwed.
It's -marginally- more useful on the DSTs but there's not that much in it.
I think what I said was phrased a little too ambiguous and you misunderstood. Sorry.
What I meant is that I DON'T see A PROBLEM with 9 points of stabs which would be achievable on a prolator with
"+1 warpcore streght per lvl transport ship" and lows full of stabs.
If you already have a base warpcore strenght of +4 or +5, people would hardly waste any lows on stabs. The only realistic way to tackle a blockade runner would be a bubble camp or a dictor which is the way it should be IMO. Even then it should have an ok chance to make an escape, i.e. ne able to fit an MWD (hence you original suggestion of boosting the crane's grid, which I fully support!).
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Lobster Man
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:09:00 -
[20]
I don't know about the +1 wcs/level deal, but the current bonuses to transports are pretty useless (blockade runners at least). I use the hell out of my viator yet I only have transports lvl1. A blockade runner is supposed to be fast, not rep fast. If I'm taking damage I'm probably already screwed.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.09.20 10:50:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Alex Harumichi on 20/09/2007 10:52:50
Originally by: Lobster Man
I don't know about the +1 wcs/level deal, but the current bonuses to transports are pretty useless (blockade runners at least). I use the hell out of my viator yet I only have transports lvl1. A blockade runner is supposed to be fast, not rep fast. If I'm taking damage I'm probably already screwed.
Yeah, at the moment training Transports above level is a bit useless for the blockade runners. Even if you wanted to armor tank a Viator, just try fitting an MWD + armor rep on it gridwise.
Something other than the current bonus would be good, imho. Maybe more resists per level, or smalled sigrad per level, or something.
Have to say I otherwise love my Viator (with rigs). Gets into warp quickly, warps *fast*, moves at about 3km/sec, needs lots of points of scramble to hold down... lovely little ship.
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Lord Eremet
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Posted - 2007.09.20 11:22:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Lord Eremet on 20/09/2007 11:23:18
/signed.
The crane really needs some love.
Also the stupid transport ship bonuses on all 4 ships need to change. I see no reason why anyone would need to train them in their current form to more then level 1-2.
/me waits for CCP to do some magic.
//Erem
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Arana Tellen
Gallente
The Blackguard Wolves
Knights Of the Southerncross
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Posted - 2007.09.22 01:00:00 -
[23]
The 0.0 transports should be immune to ewar IMO, only bubbles should stop them, which is not that hard to do to be fair (I don't fly them but that seems sensible to me).
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Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb
2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Betrayal Under Mayhem
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Posted - 2007.09.22 10:34:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
The 0.0 transports should be immune to ewar IMO, only bubbles should stop them, which is not that hard to do to be fair (I don't fly them but that seems sensible to me).
I'm not so sure. I mean, we don't really need invulnerable winmobiles.
I think something as simple as swapping their active tanking bonuses to a passive tanking bonus would do the trick on blockade runners in general. Shield/Armour HPs or resistances, I think would work quite nicely. I'd train transport 5 for 25% more resists on my Crane - it wouldn't save me from a serious camp, but it gives me just that little bit longer to burn clear, hit the gate or otherwise do something clever and funky.
And of course, that little bit more grid on the Crane :)
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Crane needs more grid |
000Hunter000
Gallente
Magners Marauders
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Posted - 2007.09.22 12:01:00 -
[25]
yep sadly the caldari transports arn't very good at what they do, i'm seriously considering to switch 1 of my chars to gall or amarr transport, i think it's silly that the bustard while almost looking twice the size of the occator can't fit atleast as much cargo.
CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Magners is now recruiting, evemail me or Dagazbo ingame.
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Dimitrius Zabelle
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Posted - 2007.09.22 12:17:00 -
[26]
On the other hand, technically a Caldari transport can fit a *light* shield tank AND still fit WCS / Expanded Cargoholds... The armor tanked variants can only fit one or the other.
While being able to fit the MWD i do agree is a must have, you need to be careful not to make them overpowered able to *lightly* tank, WCS and MWD at the same time. |
Harlequ1n
FireTech
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 12:24:00 -
[27]
Bumpity bump for the cause...
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Lain Khazar
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.26 14:04:00 -
[28]
/signed
Both to the PG-issue and to the ideas about the transport ship bonus. Atm I don't see the point in training transport ships further then level 1.
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Karash Amerius
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.09.26 16:39:00 -
[29]
The PG doesnt bother me as much as the active shield tanking bonus which is balls useless.
Ex-Merc Blog |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.03 18:05:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Karash Amerius
The PG doesnt bother me as much as the active shield tanking bonus which is balls useless.
But all the blockade runners have a 'mostly worthless' tanking bonus. I agree, that that does actually need a look. But it's only the Crane that has this particular problem, which. The tanking bonus is an imbalance of the class itself, the Crane's powergrid I feel is an imbalance within the class.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
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Karash Amerius
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.03 18:25:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Karash Amerius on 03/10/2007 18:25:48
Well it does have the highest shield hp rating, highest CPU, and largest starting cargo capacity of any Blockade Runner. I would say it has the most mid slots as well...but with vanilla shield resistances, those are used up in a big way for shield modules.
What irks me the most, is all blockade runners get two 5% type bonuses while the Crane gets one 10% bonus. But the 10% bonus is TOTALLY USELESS for the ship and its intended role. Sure, the other transports are pretty useless in their bonuses too...but the Crane just adds insult to injury :)
Ex-Merc Blog |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.03 21:23:00 -
[32]
Highest base cargo, yeah. But high mass, low speed, and only two lowslots.
So if you _want_ lots of cargo, the viator and prorator can be larger. If you want speed or agility... well, all the others can be faster and more agile.
*shrug* I agree, that shield resists on your hauler is a real nicety, leaving your lows for speed or hauling mods. But ... well, if the Crane could fit a MWD, 3x hardeners and a cloak, along with a couple of nanofibers, then I think it'd be a well balanced ship - larger, but slower than all the others. (Marginally, anyway) and less versatile in terms of cargo <-> speed tradeoff.
But yes, the 10% boost amount bonus ... I don't think I've ever used. I'm fairly sure none of the other blockade runners use their tanking bonuses either. *shrug* resists bonus, shield hP amount, or ... well something else, would be good.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Karash Amerius
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.10.09 23:26:00 -
[33]
The problem in general with any shield defense based ship is that most shield modules actually add signifigant signature radius penalties. Really, when it comes to the 'size' of all the transport ships, its irrelavent since the armor tankers have MWD and the shield tankers usually have extenders on.
I agree with all other points though...and I agree that a MWD needs to be pretty much on any 'transport' ship, especially the blockade runners, but its not the biggest issue of the class (the active tanking in regards to capacitor use is).
Ex-Merc Blog |
Trojanman190
Caldari
Murder-Death-Kill
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Posted - 2007.10.10 00:11:00 -
[34]
What is this whining about powergrid? In order to use my prowlers tank I need to fit a powergrid mod. No more whining about your crane's powergrid and we need some serious whining about the most useless bonus of anyship. Why an active tanking bonus????
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.10 19:08:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Trojanman190
What is this whining about powergrid? In order to use my prowlers tank I need to fit a powergrid mod. No more whining about your crane's powergrid and we need some serious whining about the most useless bonus of anyship. Why an active tanking bonus????
You don't need a grid mod to fit a MWD though. You can, in fact, fit a MWD, 2 nanos, and some shield hardeners, and a cloak.
Crane cannot. Hence this thread.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Harlequ1n
FireTech
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.13 23:00:00 -
[36]
bumpity - to keep this problem in the public eye, its only a couple of extra pg...
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Ulstan
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2007.10.24 14:45:00 -
[37]
The Crane definitely should get more powergrid to fix the MWD issue: it has the least powergrid and the smallest ability to raise it's powergrid due to lack of low slots.
However, I'm more concerned about the overall useless bonuses on blockade runners. I'd love to see them changed to something that would actually enhance the function of blockade runners and encourage training the skill to higher levels.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
M. PIRE
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Posted - 2007.10.31 15:01:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Ulstan
The Crane definitely should get more powergrid to fix the MWD issue: it has the least powergrid and the smallest ability to raise it's powergrid due to lack of low slots.
However, I'm more concerned about the overall useless bonuses on blockade runners. I'd love to see them changed to something that would actually enhance the function of blockade runners and encourage training the skill to higher levels.
Transport ships, and especially blockade runners are mostly obseleted by carriers these days. Never the less, I still like the Crane as a ship, and think it really wouldn't be overpowered by that 4 more grid, and would instead become eminently well balanced a ship.
I'm not quite sure what bonus you could give a blockade runner that would be 'ok' - I broadly think they're fairly good at the moment. Maybe +1 point of warp core stability a level?
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Harlequ1n
FireTech
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.31 15:08:00 -
[39]
Bonus's should be for agility and speed, to get into warp quicker or back to the gate quicker.
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Harlequ1n
FireTech
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.10.31 15:09:00 -
[40]
...+1 warp stab strength per level would be overpowered IMO, but the Crane desperately needs that extra few PG...
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.10.31 17:35:00 -
[41]
+4 powergrid /signed.
I mean come on, let it fit a damn MWD.
☺☻☺☻☺
SO how do you get me to stop posting? Bump this thread Until devs answer |
Adam Weishaupt
Minmatar
Pyrrhus Sicarii
The Church.
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Posted - 2007.11.04 08:46:00 -
[42]
I agree with Mr. Lyrus. +4 Powergrid for great justice.
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Karash Amerius
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.08 19:41:00 -
[43]
I would like to see a entire transport revamp...not just the crane but the whole class of ships.
Ex-Merc Blog |
Aprudena Gist
Caldari
Capital Development and Security Industries
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Posted - 2007.11.08 20:35:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Arana Tellen
The 0.0 transports should be immune to ewar IMO, only bubbles should stop them, which is not that hard to do to be fair (I don't fly them but that seems sensible to me).
If you did that you would end up with battle badgers round 2.
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Harlequ1n
FireTech
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.16 11:40:00 -
[45]
Bumpage for +4 PG and a transport skill that is worth training. Lets keep this one on the Dev's radar...
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Dsnakes
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Posted - 2007.11.16 11:56:00 -
[46]
/Signed +4 pg
Or change the transport bonus to MWD fitting. Like -10% PG requirement per lvl.
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Alex Harumichi
Gallente
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:16:00 -
[47]
Yeah, Crane could use a bit of help, and all the deep space transports could use a bit of a boost, tbh. A Transports skill bonus that would make it worthwhile to train it over lvl1 would also be nice, of course.
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Harlequ1n
FireTech
Pure.
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Posted - 2007.11.22 15:00:00 -
[48]
With the introduction of the Heavy Interdictor + focused script, it will become essential to fit an MWD on a BR to stand any chance of avoiding a low-sec camp. The Crane currently cannot do this without sever drawbacks - even more reason for an extra 4 PG...
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.11 14:44:00 -
[49]
Well, seems like this didn't make it in for Trinity. (And yes, I am shamelessly bumping it).
As a more general discussion though, how about if blockade runners in general, also got:
6 highslots (same number of turret/launcher hardpoints)
Role bonus: 100% range on tractor beams
In addition to the 4 powergrid the Crane Really Really needs of course.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2007.12.16 22:42:00 -
[50]
I just wanted to point at the intellectual dishonesty of the OP that made the same whine exactly in October 2006 (see the original thread). In the ensuing thread quite a few points where made, most notably the Prowler having only two low and also having to use a fitting mod to fit a medium shield booster (and it got an active shield tanking bonus, so it only makes sense).
Yet in 2007 James serves us exactly the same whine, without even bothering fixing his errors. The poster boy Caldari whiner.
Whatever you read from James Lyrus, make sure it's fresh and not out of the fridge after one year... And don't bother replying, he obviously don't care.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
|
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.12.16 22:48:00 -
[51]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Well, seems like this didn't make it in for Trinity. (And yes, I am shamelessly bumping it).
Hint: an argument is stronger when not based on lies. The first time around one year ago it could have been errors, but the Prowler real number of low slots was pointed to you yet you insist on misrepresenting it again.
See you in Autumn 2008 for Crane powergrid whine mk3. I don't see it boosted before someone made a proper argument.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
shinsushi
|
Posted - 2007.12.16 23:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
I just wanted to point at the intellectual dishonesty of the OP that made the same whine exactly in October 2006 (see the original thread). In the ensuing thread quite a few points where made, most notably the Prowler having only two low and also having to use a fitting mod to fit a medium shield booster (and it got an active shield tanking bonus, so it only makes sense).
Yet in 2007 James serves us exactly the same whine, without even bothering fixing his errors. The poster boy Caldari whiner.
Whatever you read from James Lyrus, make sure it's fresh and not out of the fridge after one year... And don't bother replying, he obviously don't care.
Ok, so james did make a mistake, the prowler only has 2 low slots. This doesn't change the FACT that every other transport can throw on a MWD without fitting mods. This is just wrong.
Oh and as far as your medium shield booste whine, it will still be harder for the crane to fit a medium shield booster after the +4 powergrid than the prowler.
For real, this is like the dumbest thing ever to argue about. What makes the crane sooo special that it should not be able to run a MWD w/o a PG mod?
Oh, yes the Crane gets a 25% shield resistance bonus, but the prowler gets a much faster base speed and lower mass, both much more important to a BLOCKADE RUNNER.
TO sum up, yes he was mistaken about the lows, but that doesn't change the fact that he is right.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2007.12.16 23:22:00 -
[53]
Originally by: shinsushi
TO sum up, yes he was mistaken about the lows, but that doesn't change the fact that he is right.
Maybe mistaken the first time, for sure a liar the second. He got an agenda and will use every means to achieve it.
It's not like he didn't aknowlege the error the first time around.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2007.12.16 23:33:00 -
[54]
Originally by: shinsushi
What makes the crane sooo special that it should not be able to run a MWD w/o a PG mod?
Because when you take in account MWD+tanking gear they are way more balanced tahn James gives credit for. Crane and Prowler need a PDS but the other armor tank and can't even really fit the istab that the Crane and Prowler can fit. You must compare the ships abilities will full fit not naked with just a MWD.
If you boost the Prowler and Crane grid so they can fit a MWD without fitting mod they'll end up fitting more speed/agility gear in those lows and will be really imbalanced compared to the Viator and Prorator.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.12.17 01:19:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: shinsushi
What makes the crane sooo special that it should not be able to run a MWD w/o a PG mod?
Because when you take in account MWD+tanking gear they are way more balanced tahn James gives credit for. Crane and Prowler need a PDS but the other armor tank and can't even really fit the istab that the Crane and Prowler can fit. You must compare the ships abilities will full fit not naked with just a MWD.
If you boost the Prowler and Crane grid so they can fit a MWD without fitting mod they'll end up fitting more speed/agility gear in those lows and will be really imbalanced compared to the Viator and Prorator.
Wouldn't this argument hold true aswell for any shield tanking minnie/caldari vessel then? None of them should have the PG to fit guns and a MWD without a fitting mod due to their ability to just then nano it up?
The way I see it is that the #1 thing to fit on a blockade runner is a MWD, that goes on before anything else. The prowler can still fit a small booster and something of a tank, and still nano it up right?
Even beyond any of this, isn't the spare low-slots for the nanoing already dealt with by having only 2 lows? I really do not understand your logic.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 02:50:00 -
[56]
Originally by: shinsushi
The way I see it is that the #1 thing to fit on a blockade runner is a MWD, that goes on before anything else. The prowler can still fit a small booster and something of a tank, and still nano it up right?
Even beyond any of this, isn't the spare low-slots for the nanoing already dealt with by having only 2 lows? I really do not understand your logic.
On the armor tankers blockade runners especially the gallente one, after you fitted a small rep and an explosive hardener only room for one istab. (The amarr one actually could be nanoed up nicely due to its even native resists). But if you Give the prowler and crane more pg you can know for sure their lowslots will be istabs and that will make them really much better then the gallente one at least.
It's not like blockade runners are not used the same from all races. Warp fast and when you can't burn back to gate tanking the damage. As a shipclass the blockade runners are pretty balanced in my view now, the suggestion of the op would break that. The option of giving them more grid and removing a low would make them less flexible (thinking battle haulers there  ).
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Death of Virtue
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:02:00 -
[57]
I can't believe you @ssholes would be arguing over whether or not the Crane gets 4 more PG or not. It's a hauler FFS. Are you going to be taking over entire systems with Cranes? Is the change going to be the one factor that destroys your game playing experience? I think not.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y
[Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I |
Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.12.17 03:24:00 -
[58]
Signed.
--
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Aldelphius
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.12.17 04:03:00 -
[59]
/sign
4 base PG (hell, I would take 2 base PG) would make the cran much more in line with the rest of the transports. as it was stated, if you have to activly tank anything, your probably done for. MWD speed is vital for getting past a bubble in 0.0. In low sec, you dont have to worry bout the bubble, but you still need to get to warp fast. The crane is the heaviest transport with the fewest slots to improve align times. Giving it the ability to at least equip a MWD and have 3-4 PG left over brings it much more inline with the rest of the transports.
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kill0rbunny
Jagdkommando
Phoenix Allianz
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Posted - 2007.12.17 10:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Aldelphius
/sign
4 base PG (hell, I would take 2 base PG)
Hell I would even appreciate one friggin point of powergrid.
1 Named MWD plus Cloak is all i can ever need for hauling my loot out of 0.0.
Now I have a friggin Power Diag on it to fit only those two modules.
It's a plain joke.
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Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:16:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Lubomir Penev on 17/12/2007 17:21:57
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: Aldelphius
/sign
4 base PG (hell, I would take 2 base PG)
Hell I would even appreciate one friggin point of powergrid.
1 Named MWD plus Cloak is all i can ever need for hauling my loot out of 0.0.
Now I have a friggin Power Diag on it to fit only those two modules.
It's a plain joke.
Lets compare fitted ships.
[Crane setup]
Power Diagnostic System II
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Improved Cloaking Device II
[Prowler setup]
Power Diagnostic System II
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Medium Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Improved Cloaking Device II
Those are realistic and I guess relatively common setups. The Prowler is faster but the Crane align faster and holds more. The Crane also have 4000 more effective HP than the Prowler while the Prowler got a better active tank (but considering the most those ship should ever endure is running 10km back to gate the Crane really is advantaged here).
Can someone honestly tell that the Crane is really at a disadvantage? Who cares about ships fitted with a single mod. Once all slots are filled the two shield tanked blockade runners look very balanced to me.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:20:00 -
[62]
Edited by: shinsushi on 17/12/2007 17:20:57
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: kill0rbunny
Originally by: Aldelphius
/sign
4 base PG (hell, I would take 2 base PG)
Hell I would even appreciate one friggin point of powergrid.
1 Named MWD plus Cloak is all i can ever need for hauling my loot out of 0.0.
Now I have a friggin Power Diag on it to fit only those two modules.
It's a plain joke.
Lets compare fitted ships.
[Crane setup]
Power Diagnostic System II
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Magnetic Scattering Amplifier II
Invulnerability Field II
Invulnerability Field II
Improved Cloaking Device II
[Prowler setup]
Power Diagnostic System II
Local Hull Conversion Inertial Stabilizers I
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive
Medium Shield Booster II
Invulnerability Field II
Improved Cloaking Device II
Those are realistic and I guess relatively common setups. The Prowler is faster but the Crane align faster and holds more. The Crane also have 4500 more effective HP than the Prowler while the Prowler got a better active tank (but considering the most those ship should ever endure is running 10km back to gate the Crane really is advantaged here).
Can someone honestly tell that the Crane is really at a disadvantage? Who cares about ships fitted with a single mod. Once all slots are filled the two shield tanked blockade runners look very balanced to me.
Now I wonder how that setup would change with +4 powergrid? Probably not at all eh?
Oh and since your being so stubborn, why is it that the prowler gets 2 highs?
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
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Posted - 2007.12.17 17:30:00 -
[63]
Originally by: shinsushi
]Now I wonder how that setup would change with +4 powergrid? Probably not at all eh?
Two istabs in low, goodluck catching one in lowsec ever then.
Quote:
Oh and since your being so stubborn, why is it that the prowler gets 2 highs?
Because it gets one less mid? This extra highslot doesn't serve much a blocade runner and I'd bet most Prowler pilots would rather have it an extra low or extra mid.
And now can you answer this question : are the Prowler and Crane imbalanced wrt each other now and if not why change it?
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
shinsushi
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 17:59:00 -
[64]
Edited by: shinsushi on 17/12/2007 18:00:20
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: shinsushi
]Now I wonder how that setup would change with +4 powergrid? Probably not at all eh?
Two istabs in low, goodluck catching one in lowsec ever then.
Quote:
Oh and since your being so stubborn, why is it that the prowler gets 2 highs?
Because it gets one less mid? This extra highslot doesn't serve much a blocade runner and I'd bet most Prowler pilots would rather have it an extra low or extra mid.
And now can you answer this question : are the Prowler and Crane imbalanced wrt each other now and if not why change it?
I wonder if any other any other blockade (or every other) can fit 2 istabs in the lows AND fit a MWD.... I know the prowler can...
You are being a hypocrite. What you are saying here is that every single other blockade runner should be able to do things that the crane should not, well at least without fitting mods.
Seriously, your wrong, accept it, embrace it, know it.
EDIT: yes they are imbalanced. The prowler can fit a MWD w/o fitting mods, the crane cannot.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Katashi Ishizuka
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 18:28:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: shinsushi
The way I see it is that the #1 thing to fit on a blockade runner is a MWD, that goes on before anything else. The prowler can still fit a small booster and something of a tank, and still nano it up right?
Even beyond any of this, isn't the spare low-slots for the nanoing already dealt with by having only 2 lows? I really do not understand your logic.
On the armor tankers blockade runners especially the gallente one, after you fitted a small rep and an explosive hardener only room for one istab. (The amarr one actually could be nanoed up nicely due to its even native resists). But if you Give the prowler and crane more pg you can know for sure their lowslots will be istabs and that will make them really much better then the gallente one at least.
It's not like blockade runners are not used the same from all races. Warp fast and when you can't burn back to gate tanking the damage. As a shipclass the blockade runners are pretty balanced in my view now, the suggestion of the op would break that. The option of giving them more grid and removing a low would make them less flexible (thinking battle haulers there ).
...
You do not tank damage in a hauler. You die. Speed is life, and so the tanking bonuses on the blockade runner are pretty useless. Therefore, to say that Viators and Proraters put armor tanking mods on instead of cargo or nano mods is to expose a deep ignorance of the way they are flown. In comparison, even though I don't fly it, I think the Caldari blockade runner does deserve +4 PG.
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VicturusTeSaluto
Metafarmers
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Posted - 2007.12.17 18:38:00 -
[66]
use a powergrid implant or fit a rig.
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.12.17 19:25:00 -
[67]
Edited by: James Lyrus on 17/12/2007 19:25:25
Wow. Thanks 'anti-Crane boost guys'. You bumped my thread, and pushed forth my ultimate EVIL agenda to take over EVE with CRANES OF DOOOOOM.
To answer a few posts, no this is hardly the end of the world, either way. 4 powergrid just isn't very much. But I'm pretty certain I speak for all the Crane pilots out there, when I say that this LITTLE thing would make our gameplay experience SO MUCH better.
It is ONLY the Crane that needs a grid boost (of some kind). It's not the end of the world. 4 grid doesn't tip the scales of balance much either way.
IF the Crane could fit:
Improved Cloak II,
Y-T8 MWD, Invuln, Invuln, Photon
2x Local istab
Then it'd be as agile as a prowler with the same fit (but only since trinity) (lose the photon on the prorator, because it doesn't have a gaping huge EM hole). It would have 2400 more ehps (14k or so, vs. 12k or so). It would have 312m3 more cargo. And 15% more mass, meaning worse acceleration, and a lower top speed on MWD - Crane being on 1796, and Prowler on 2183.
And 9% more signature, too.
I turn your question around. Would that be so bad? Would the apocalypse happen? Would people scream and cry that the Crane was now ZOMG OVERPOWERED, much like they scream and shout about the Charon being the most uber freighter?
No, not really. Prowler would still be the fastest and most agile hauler. It'd still be the one that got back to the gate first, and also the one that got locked last. Positive reasons to fly both, y'see.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 19:35:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Katashi I****uka
You do not tank damage in a hauler. You die. Speed is life, and so the tanking bonuses on the blockade runner are pretty useless. Therefore, to say that Viators and Proraters put armor tanking mods on instead of cargo or nano mods is to expose a deep ignorance of the way they are flown. In comparison, even though I don't fly it, I think the Caldari blockade runner does deserve +4 PG.
You need to do about 10km to get back to get. About 2000m/s top speed. take in account acceleration time at the beginning and being webbed at the end.
You WILL take damage from any decent camp. And the passive shield tank bonus the Crane get is by far the best to have in such a situation. Many effective HP in that shield.
The worse bonus by far is the one on the Prorator, unlikely to get more than 2 or 3 small armor rep cycle.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 19:41:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: Katashi I****uka
You do not tank damage in a hauler. You die. Speed is life, and so the tanking bonuses on the blockade runner are pretty useless. Therefore, to say that Viators and Proraters put armor tanking mods on instead of cargo or nano mods is to expose a deep ignorance of the way they are flown. In comparison, even though I don't fly it, I think the Caldari blockade runner does deserve +4 PG.
You need to do about 10km to get back to get. About 2000m/s top speed. take in account acceleration time at the beginning and being webbed at the end.
You WILL take damage from any decent camp. And the passive shield tank bonus the Crane get is by far the best to have in such a situation. Many effective HP in that shield.
The worse bonus by far is the one on the Prorator, unlikely to get more than 2 or 3 small armor rep cycle.
All the active tank bonuses on blockade runners are utterly worthless. Over the time period you actually need to survive, a plate, extender or hardener is basically in all ways better than fitting a repper.
And ... actually, the Crane doesn't get a passive shield bonus. It gets boost amount.
Crane: +10% shield boost amount
Prowler: 5% boost amount, 5% cap need.
Prorator: 5% repper amount, 5% repper duration
Viator: 5% repper duration, 5% repper cap.
All these bonuses are utterly worthless on a blockade runner, and I think all of them should be changed to something useful, like resistances, HPs increase, agility or speed.
But at the same time, even if they did that, the Crane would still deserve 4 more powergrid :)
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 19:41:00 -
[70]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Then it'd be as agile as a prowler with the same fit (but only since trinity)
The Crane is slightly faster in warp than the Prowler now, both having the same number of inertia stabilizers. A Prowler fitting two is left with a tank even crappier than what it gets now with a medium shield booster. The Crane needed tanking gear all take 1 grid, while you have to reserve some grid for a medium booster for the Prowler, and even with it it will be a worse tank for blockade running purpose than what the Crane enjoy.
It's not like boosting the Crane would be the end of the world, but blockade runners are pretty well balanced now and dev time would be better spent on more glaring issues.
Like boosting the Breacher
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
|
|
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 19:48:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: James Lyrus
Then it'd be as agile as a prowler with the same fit (but only since trinity)
The Crane is slightly faster in warp than the Prowler now, both having the same number of inertia stabilizers. A Prowler fitting two is left with a tank even crappier than what it gets now with a medium shield booster. The Crane needed tanking gear all take 1 grid, while you have to reserve some grid for a medium booster for the Prowler, and even with it it will be a worse tank for blockade running purpose than what the Crane enjoy.
It's not like boosting the Crane would be the end of the world, but blockade runners are pretty well balanced now and dev time would be better spent on more glaring issues.
Like boosting the Breacher
I'm confused.
Why are you fitting a medium shield booster and a PDS on a prowler?
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 20:01:00 -
[72]
Originally by: James Lyrus
I'm confused.
Why are you fitting a medium shield booster and a PDS on a prowler?
With only 2 tanking mids and less shield than the crane to start with looks like the best choice, you have another setup to share?
It's very hard to shoehorn a medium extender and it takes 9 seconds (3 cycles) to a medium booster to be better than a small extender and that while not increasing the sig radius. And a two invuln configuration is more than 2000 effective HP shy of the crane setup I posted.
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 20:26:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: James Lyrus
I'm confused.
Why are you fitting a medium shield booster and a PDS on a prowler?
With only 2 tanking mids and less shield than the crane to start with looks like the best choice, you have another setup to share?
It's very hard to shoehorn a medium extender and it takes 9 seconds (3 cycles) to a medium booster to be better than a small extender and that while not increasing the sig radius. And a two invuln configuration is more than 2000 effective HP shy of the crane setup I posted.
Each invuln on a prowler is 1500 ehp or so. That's 40 seconds or so (assuming you have transports 5 of course, which I certainly don't) of shield boosting. Your cap lasts just about 41s if you have a PDS II, Y-T and medium booster II fitted, but I'm fairly sure if you're needing to tank that long, you're already dead.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Lubomir Penev
interimo
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 21:26:00 -
[74]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Each invuln on a prowler is 1500 ehp or so. That's 40 seconds or so (assuming you have transports 5 of course, which I certainly don't) of shield boosting. Your cap lasts just about 41s if you have a PDS II, Y-T and medium booster II fitted, but I'm fairly sure if you're needing to tank that long, you're already dead.
Hum you're right, shame than none of the transport is best of using its tanking bonus...
--
Heat, easy to burn your mods by mistake, hard to get it to work when you need it the most. Well designed interface CCP! |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2007.12.17 21:34:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Lubomir Penev
Originally by: James Lyrus
Each invuln on a prowler is 1500 ehp or so. That's 40 seconds or so (assuming you have transports 5 of course, which I certainly don't) of shield boosting. Your cap lasts just about 41s if you have a PDS II, Y-T and medium booster II fitted, but I'm fairly sure if you're needing to tank that long, you're already dead.
Hum you're right, shame than none of the transport is best of using its tanking bonus...
True enough.
I'd love to see a resists or HP bonus. That at least, would be useful.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking?
GMP and TNP |
Ulstan
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Posted - 2007.12.17 23:08:00 -
[76]
I think *first* I'd like to see the transport ships get actually useful bonuses.
Then if any problems remain, we can maybe add power grid to the Crane.
But until the useless bonuses are fixed, I feel like 4 power grid here and there, while still an issue, is a very minor one.
Fix transport and AF bonuses! :)
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Ebusitanus
Segunda Fundacion
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Posted - 2008.01.14 08:57:00 -
[77]
Bump for a worthy cause!
------------------------------------------------
"Stop quoting laws, we carry weapons!"
Pompey the Great to the defenders of a besieged city who were crying outrage. |
James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
Enuma Elish.
|
Posted - 2008.01.16 22:49:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Ulstan
I think *first* I'd like to see the transport ships get actually useful bonuses.
Then if any problems remain, we can maybe add power grid to the Crane.
But until the useless bonuses are fixed, I feel like 4 power grid here and there, while still an issue, is a very minor one.
Fix transport and AF bonuses! :)
I disagree. 4 powergrid is MORE of an issue than the bonus being worthless. The latter affects all the ships equally, where the crane remains the only one that has quite that much trouble fitting a MWD. Transport ships remain usable without having a decent ship skill bonus, where not having the power grid to fit a MWD is crippling.
But *shrug*. Useless bonuses becoming useful would be nice too though.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Harlequ1n
FireTech
Pure.
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Posted - 2008.02.02 18:49:00 -
[79]
Well with all the proposed ship changes coming out, time to start beating the Transport ship drum again.
More Power to the Crane!
Only +4pg required!
Oh, and lets have a useful transport ship bonus while were in the boost mood....
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Eve University
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Posted - 2008.02.02 19:55:00 -
[80]
/signed, and I don't even fly the Crane!
Lets get an AGI or HP boost or something, especially now that we have HICs to deal with ...
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Ally Poo
White Wolves Syndicate
EVESpace
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Posted - 2008.02.22 02:16:00 -
[81]
/signed
===============Sleep is for the Dead===============
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Ulstan
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Posted - 2008.02.22 05:03:00 -
[82]
After re-reading this thread, and playing around some more with BR's, my position has now changed: Crane should definitely get another 4 PG so it can fit the cloak + MWD without sacrificing a low slot to a fitting mod that no other BR (all with more low slots) have to sacrifice.
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Tweee
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Posted - 2008.02.22 12:34:00 -
[83]
/signed
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Mephistophilis
Cygnus Alpha Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.02.22 12:35:00 -
[84]
Signed
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Aldelphius
Carbide Industries
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Posted - 2008.02.22 17:37:00 -
[85]
/signed
And I would like to see the transport skill bonus be usefull, mabey 1-2% agility and 1-2% reduction in mass per level?
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.02.22 18:34:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Aldelphius
/signed
And I would like to see the transport skill bonus be usefull, mabey 1-2% agility and 1-2% reduction in mass per level?
I'm not sure blockade runners need more agility and speed.
What i'd like to see is a sig reduction
or a resists bonus.
Or maybe even an ECM burst optimal.
Or hell, just a '+1 blinky lights per level' bonus. That'd at least be more use :)
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Herio Mortis
54th Knights Templar
THORN Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 01:24:00 -
[87]
Just another signature for this, the crane really needs at least 4 more PG.
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AKULA UrQuan
STK Scientific
Black-Out
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Posted - 2008.03.24 02:35:00 -
[88]
/signed
Also, With all the ways to stop ships in their tracks these days the whole blockade runner concept needs some love. Like ditching the useless tanking bonus for an agility bonus.
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Kesslee
Water and Power
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Posted - 2008.03.24 02:42:00 -
[89]
/Signed
4 more grid please CCP, or I'll be forced to train Minmatar Industrial 5 
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Derek Sigres
Eternal Guardians Corp.
The Covenant Alliance
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Posted - 2008.03.24 04:30:00 -
[90]
/signed
And I'd have to agree, any sort of active tanking bonus on a blockade runner is just shy of useless. I'd rather have a resist or pure HP bonus instead since in all reality the buffer is the only thing that's going to save you when you come under fire. In the time it takes to burn to the gate I could potentially cycle a shield booster 2 - 3 times. I'd rather just save the slot and have 25% more HP off the bat.
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Skkarto
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Posted - 2008.04.01 11:51:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Ebusitanus
Bump for a worthy cause!
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Cloora
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Posted - 2008.04.01 23:07:00 -
[92]
As a Crane owner myself I was shocked to find out that other Blockade Runners CAN fit one!!
I have a 10MN AB II on mine. If it is a single HIC I can get back to the gate but most anythnig else its not any use.
I do use the tanking bonus on a Medium Shield Booster II and it is also only of use if there is a single HIC and maybe a BC camping a gate. I have Transport trained to lvl 4.
but I totally agree on +4 PG for the Crane and a more useful bonus.
Wow I'll start to train Amarr Indy V now... 
 Please visit your user settings to re-enable images. |
Karash Amerius
Evolution
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.05.13 20:49:00 -
[93]
To be honest, HIC's really broke the whole concept of the blockade runner. The entire class of ships needs a redesign.
____________________________________________
"Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog |
Jmanis Catharg
Caldari
Stickler inc
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Posted - 2008.05.13 23:28:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 13/05/2008 23:35:45
Originally by: Karash Amerius
To be honest, HIC's really broke the whole concept of the blockade runner. The entire class of ships needs a redesign.
If they ever removed the cloak/warp trick I'd agree with that. It's enough for lowsec tbh, but even then that's hard to achieve without a 10mn MWD.
However, you're right. As far as transport ships go, it's worth balls in lowsec. The blockade runner is a lot more suited to it, but in light of HICs the +2 WCS bonus on all ships of this class is just daft.
EDIT: But still, /signed coz its silly the other races can comfortably fit a 10mn MWD and the crane cant
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.14 16:41:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Jmanis Catharg
Edited by: Jmanis Catharg on 13/05/2008 23:35:45
Originally by: Karash Amerius
To be honest, HIC's really broke the whole concept of the blockade runner. The entire class of ships needs a redesign.
If they ever removed the cloak/warp trick I'd agree with that. It's enough for lowsec tbh, but even then that's hard to achieve without a 10mn MWD.
However, you're right. As far as transport ships go, it's worth balls in lowsec. The blockade runner is a lot more suited to it, but in light of HICs the +2 WCS bonus on all ships of this class is just daft.
EDIT: But still, /signed coz its silly the other races can comfortably fit a 10mn MWD and the crane cant
Well, blockade runners are still fast and agile. That's probably worth more than the WCS bonus always was.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Harlequ1n
FireTech
Vendetta Alliance.
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Posted - 2008.05.16 12:33:00 -
[96]
Once more for the bump. Please make this ship useful again...
Originally by: Gaven Blands
Some of this may be true. Some might be a complete fabrication. Other parts may be interprative. But whatever the case it's all badly written in a hurry.
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Dsnakes
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Posted - 2008.05.16 13:59:00 -
[97]
yes just a few PG more plz !!
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ZERG RUSHKEKE
Gallente
Twilight Angels
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Posted - 2008.05.16 14:11:00 -
[98]
/signed
----------------
"O Maker, help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded." |
Mervent
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.17 00:38:00 -
[99]
/signed
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MrRookie
Interstellar Planetary
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.17 08:48:00 -
[100]
They should rework them all. The +2 warp stab bonus is completely wothless with HICs now and they should replace the bous with an infinity warp strength.. The biggest treath to the ship is gategankers after HICs anyway
THe PG is the least of my concernes :p
Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
May I have pink next time plz? |
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.17 09:52:00 -
[101]
Originally by: MrRookie
They should rework them all. The +2 warp stab bonus is completely wothless with HICs now and they should replace the bous with an infinity warp strength.. The biggest treath to the ship is gategankers after HICs anyway
THe PG is the least of my concernes :p
The strength of the class has always been the ability to align, warp and 'burn clear'.
2 points of stabs is enough that a 'ceptor or two', whilst they can keep up and keep a point on, they can't stop you warping.
I think that's actually pretty much fine. You should pretty much be able to outrun any hactor there, from a standing start. At least, in any of the blockade runners that come with the ability to fit a MWD (e.g. all the ones that aren't the Crane)
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Wideen
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2008.05.17 10:07:00 -
[102]
I do a 3% pg implant, which allows me to fit at least a Y-t8 mwd 
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MrRookie
Interstellar Planetary
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.05.17 11:38:00 -
[103]
Edited by: MrRookie on 17/05/2008 11:38:25
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: MrRookie
They should rework them all. The +2 warp stab bonus is completely wothless with HICs now and they should replace the bous with an infinity warp strength.. The biggest treath to the ship is gategankers after HICs anyway
THe PG is the least of my concernes :p
The strength of the class has always been the ability to align, warp and 'burn clear'.
2 points of stabs is enough that a 'ceptor or two', whilst they can keep up and keep a point on, they can't stop you warping.
I think that's actually pretty much fine. You should pretty much be able to outrun any hactor there, from a standing start. At least, in any of the blockade runners that come with the ability to fit a MWD (e.g. all the ones that aren't the Crane)
Thats very situational. As long as there is anything such as infninite point scramblers there is nothing to prevent a small gang from webbing you. Good luck getting anywhere then. Might aswell be a Badger your flying
Sig removed. Please email us at [email protected] if you would like to know why. -Conuion Meow
May I have pink next time plz? |
Gypsio III
Bambooule
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Posted - 2008.05.17 12:56:00 -
[104]
It's 12 km back to the gate. Good luck stopping the BR MWDing back. HICs are no great threat to blockade runners.
Unless, of course, your BR is fat, slow, heavy and can't fit a MWD... that classic gimped-Caldari-PG problem (also see Nighthawk and Caracal).
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.17 13:41:00 -
[105]
Originally by: MrRookie
Edited by: MrRookie on 17/05/2008 11:38:25
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: MrRookie
They should rework them all. The +2 warp stab bonus is completely wothless with HICs now and they should replace the bous with an infinity warp strength.. The biggest treath to the ship is gategankers after HICs anyway
THe PG is the least of my concernes :p
The strength of the class has always been the ability to align, warp and 'burn clear'.
2 points of stabs is enough that a 'ceptor or two', whilst they can keep up and keep a point on, they can't stop you warping.
I think that's actually pretty much fine. You should pretty much be able to outrun any hactor there, from a standing start. At least, in any of the blockade runners that come with the ability to fit a MWD (e.g. all the ones that aren't the Crane)
Thats very situational. As long as there is anything such as infninite point scramblers there is nothing to prevent a small gang from webbing you. Good luck getting anywhere then. Might aswell be a Badger your flying
If it's a gang you run into, then yes, you're probably going to have a problem. But that doesn't actually change anything - a gang is likely to have more points _as well_ as webs.
--
Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.05.17 15:36:00 -
[106]
This proves my point that most Caldari ships are either support ships or bait. The crane being the latter.
_
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.18 01:55:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
This proves my point that most Caldari ships are either support ships or bait. The crane being the latter.
Sadly it's just not very good at bait either.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L.
The ENTITY.
|
Posted - 2008.05.18 02:17:00 -
[108]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
This proves my point that most Caldari ships are either support ships or bait. The crane being the latter.
Sadly it's just not very good at bait either.
No one said the bait had to Survive.
It's like using salmon to catch pigeons.
_
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.18 09:41:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
This proves my point that most Caldari ships are either support ships or bait. The crane being the latter.
Sadly it's just not very good at bait either.
No one said the bait had to Survive.
It's like using salmon to catch pigeons.
No, but it does have to last long enough that the thing taking the bait can't pop it, and get clear before you can drop the hammer on them.
Fitting an injector-booster tank would allow it to do this, with it's big cargo, but not with that power grid.
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Manina Boat
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2008.05.18 11:01:00 -
[110]
/signed
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:28:00 -
[111]
Well, for my sins, I felt the need to put this before the CSMs.
Not a big thing, I know, but ... sometimes it's the little stuff that's easiest to implement, that makes all the difference.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=783086
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Crane needs more grid
249km locking? |
Elhina Novae
Sky's Edge
deadspace society
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Posted - 2008.05.28 17:55:00 -
[112]
Originally by: James Lyrus
Originally by: Aldelphius
/signed
And I would like to see the transport skill bonus be usefull, mabey 1-2% agility and 1-2% reduction in mass per level?
I'm not sure blockade runners need more agility and speed.
What i'd like to see is a sig reduction
or a resists bonus.
Or maybe even an ECM burst optimal.
Or hell, just a '+1 blinky lights per level' bonus. That'd at least be more use :)
That ECM burst sounds interesting
/signed
Somebody set up us the bomb |
Ulstan
|
Posted - 2008.05.28 18:18:00 -
[113]
Good stuff James. Showed up to support your idea.
I agree that it's small, concrete things like this that have the most chance to be implemented. It's pretty obvious what needs doing, what the effects would be, and why it should be done. Widesweeping changes to propulsion mods and webbers, etc, while attractive, are a whole lot harder to implement.
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Killer Kelly
Allied Tactical Unit
Scalar Federation
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Posted - 2008.06.04 23:11:00 -
[114]
Luckily I'm training for Obelisk on my alt, so a Viator for me. :D
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I Get Money in the Scalar Federation |
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