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The motives of the salvage thief.

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Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:25:00 - [1] If the people arguing that salvaging a wreck from a ship in a mission that someone else blew up isn't stealing, then why don't they just ask for bookmarks to the wrecks? Or purchase them? I'm sure many mission runners would be happy to sell the bookmarks to them. But that's not the case. These people want to scan out missions in deadspace. They want to steal salvage. They want to cause grief for the person that created the wrecks. Any other reasons they give are just cover so they can get risk free salvage and grief other players at the same time. If you really think it's not stealing, ask permission or buy bookmarks. Otherwise you're just griefing. I salvage all of my mission wrecks, but I would definitely consider selling salvage/looting rights. It would save me some time. However, no one asks to salvage and no one asks for bookmarks. I risked my expensive ass battleship, and I spent the time to blow up NPCs to create those wrecks. They're mine. Just wanted to clear up any confusion regarding empire mission salvage. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
sableye principle of motion Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:28:00 - [2] if they were yours they'd get crimally flagged. Join The Fight With Promo Today
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:29:00 - [3] Originally by: Xaen If the people arguing that salvaging a wreck from a ship in a mission that someone else blew up isn't stealing, then why don't they just ask for bookmarks to the wrecks? Or purchase them? I'm sure many mission runners would be happy to sell the bookmarks to them. But that's not the case. These people want to scan out missions in deadspace. They want to steal salvage. They want to cause grief for the person that created the wrecks. Any other reasons they give are just cover so they can get risk free salvage and grief other players at the same time. If you really think it's not stealing, ask permission or buy bookmarks. Otherwise you're just griefing. I salvage all of my mission wrecks, but I would definitely consider selling salvage/looting rights. It would save me some time. However, no one asks to salvage and no one asks for bookmarks. I risked my expensive ass battleship, and I spent the time to blow up NPCs to create those wrecks. They're mine. Just wanted to clear up any confusion regarding empire mission salvage. If you want to be able to claim what is considered salvage (and therefore in empire is open to anyone) then MISSION IN LOW SEC OR 0.0. There you can shoot looters without fear of concord. --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Xaen If the people arguing that salvaging a wreck from a ship in a mission that someone else blew up isn't stealing, then why don't they just ask for bookmarks to the wrecks? Or purchase them? I'm sure many mission runners would be happy to sell the bookmarks to them. But that's not the case. These people want to scan out missions in deadspace. They want to steal salvage. They want to cause grief for the person that created the wrecks. Are you sure they don't just want the salvage? I don't care enough to go hunting for salvage but if I did, it'd be about the salvage, not annoying some random carebear. ~~That's what lowsec is for!~~
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:32:00 - [5] Originally by: Arana Tellen If you want to be able to claim what is considered salvage (and therefore in empire is open to anyone) then MISSION IN LOW SEC OR 0.0. There you can shoot looters without fear of concord. If I wanted to play the game your way, I'd be you. I'd have no problem fighting for my loot, but I'm not allowed. Defending my salvage is considered a criminal act. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Andargor theWise Collateral Damage Unlimited Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:32:00 - [6] I always find it amusing that people need to understand someone else's motivations in a game... - Got grief?
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Thanos Draicon Originally by: Xaen If the people arguing that salvaging a wreck from a ship in a mission that someone else blew up isn't stealing, then why don't they just ask for bookmarks to the wrecks? Or purchase them? I'm sure many mission runners would be happy to sell the bookmarks to them. But that's not the case. These people want to scan out missions in deadspace. They want to steal salvage. They want to cause grief for the person that created the wrecks. Are you sure they don't just want the salvage? I don't care enough to go hunting for salvage but if I did, it'd be about the salvage, not annoying some random carebear. ~~That's what lowsec is for!~~ Then I'd be more than happy to negotiate a price for bookmarks to each pocket of wrecks. However, that isn't the case. Nobody wants to ask or negotiate a deal for bookmarks. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:35:00 - [8] Originally by: Xaen Then I'd be more than happy to negotiate a price for bookmarks to each pocket of wrecks. However, that isn't the case. Nobody wants to ask or negotiate a deal for bookmarks. Well of course, but they don't want to have to pay for them. Or they may just be too lazy to bother asking for that matter.
Ask Unbeatable Gallente HighTech Marines Ltd. FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:38:00 - [9] Motivation would be making guys like you post whines on forums and easy ISK Originally by: CCP Zulupark My armory is full of smack, but this ******* profanity filter stops it all.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:38:00 - [10] I'm getting tired of posting this to every thread on this subject From Prism X: Quote: But honestly (and seriously.. cause the above is a joke), I'm not promising anything is going to change nor that, if it does, it will solve all the problems in the multiverse. And that historical fact is quite relevant. If we end up having to chose between the salvagers right to salvage whatever he finds and the mission runners right to salvage his own loot without competition and getting rights to pwn empire salvagers, we'd probably go for the former. You can read the thread HERE Simply, Salvaging is a mini-profession, it is not a mission runner's entitlement program. And yes, I am a mission runner. If you have problems with people salvaging your junk laying around move to a less populated system. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:39:00 - [11] Thing is, it's not your salvage. It's salvage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_salvage#Ship_salvage_and_the_law A notable quote: Quote: Prior to a salvage attempt the salvor receives permission from the owner or the master to assist the vessel. If the vessel is abandoned no permission is needed. Pretty sure the owner of destroyed mission rats no longer care about who picks the wreck apart. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:40:00 - [12] Edited by: Arana Tellen on 14/09/2007 17:41:52 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Arana Tellen If you want to be able to claim what is considered salvage (and therefore in empire is open to anyone) then MISSION IN LOW SEC OR 0.0. There you can shoot looters without fear of concord. If I wanted to play the game your way, I'd be you. I'd have no problem fighting for my loot, but I'm not allowed. Defending my salvage is considered a criminal act. If you don't like the salvage laws of empire then move away, but you also loose protection. If you really want to stop them scanning you dont complete the mission and salvage with an ABing destroyer I use an eris + MWD + 8 salvagers and work on the large wrecks first, then again I have skills. That way they would never stand a chance of salvaging before me. --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:43:00 - [13] Originally by: Andargor theWise I always find it amusing that people need to understand someone else's motivations in a game... People's motives are usually obvious, what fascinates me is the paper thin veneer of bull**** they try to cover them with. I make no attempt to hide the fact that I like to do high sec L4 mission running because it's like printing money. But then again, so is mining, and many other professions in EVE, so I don't even feel guilty about it. I risk a ~200M battleship every time I undock. It's only through experience, careful research and planning that it becomes an ISK printer. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:45:00 - [14] Originally by: Arana Tellen Edited by: Arana Tellen on 14/09/2007 17:41:52 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Arana Tellen If you want to be able to claim what is considered salvage (and therefore in empire is open to anyone) then MISSION IN LOW SEC OR 0.0. There you can shoot looters without fear of concord. If I wanted to play the game your way, I'd be you. I'd have no problem fighting for my loot, but I'm not allowed. Defending my salvage is considered a criminal act. If you don't like the salvage laws of empire then move away, but you also loose protection. If you really want to stop them scanning you dont complete the mission and salvage with an ABing destroyer I use an eris + MWD + 8 salvagers and work on the large wrecks first, then again I have skills. That way they would never stand a chance of salvaging before me. I use a MWD Catalyst w/4 lootbeams and 4 salvagers. Any thief dumb enough to loot a can thus far has invariably left in their pod. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Andargor theWise I always find it amusing that people need to understand someone else's motivations in a game... People's motives are usually obvious, what fascinates me is the paper thin veneer of bull**** they try to cover them with. I make no attempt to hide the fact that I like to do high sec L4 mission running because it's like printing money. But then again, so is mining, and many other professions in EVE, so I don't even feel guilty about it. I risk a ~200M battleship every time I undock. It's only through experience, careful research and planning that it becomes an ISK printer. Miners can have their cans looted, they cant do anything because they are in a mining ship. Sure they could have friends protecting it but you could have someone salvaging the wrecks as you go through the mission. Careful research? Level IV missions are as simple as fitting light drones/guns/4 mission specific hardners and winning the mission. --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Empire marketslave	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:48:00 - [16] i think you guys are missing the point of the OP he is mad about people going out of thier way to salvage his stuff here is an example take a system with lots of asteroid belts that is a mission running system Xaen is running a mission and I am ratting in the belt. Since i just want to rat since salvaging slows me down i leave the wrecks. Some Guy comes in a scanner ships scans him down and takes the wrecks before he can even get a tractor beam on them when he could just go to the belt and salvage mine, or run his own mission, or get a BM from someone who doesn't want to salavage thier mission wrecks. I will point out that this is a repeat of the people whining about jet cans stealing and looks what came out of being able to shoot the can stealer
War Fairy	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:48:00 - [17] Originally by: Arana Tellen If you really want to stop them scanning you dont complete the mission and salvage with an ABing destroyer I use an eris + MWD + 8 salvagers and work on the large wrecks first, then again I have skills. That way they would never stand a chance of salvaging before me. How does this help if I come in and start salvaging while you are still running the mission? As for the OPs comment. Your logic is ******. If they think it's not stealing then then don't have to ask permissions, or buy bookmarks, or anything. Why would they ask permission for doing something that's not wrong? If you don't like me salvaging your wrecks shoot me.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Arana Tellen Edited by: Arana Tellen on 14/09/2007 17:41:52 Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Arana Tellen If you want to be able to claim what is considered salvage (and therefore in empire is open to anyone) then MISSION IN LOW SEC OR 0.0. There you can shoot looters without fear of concord. If I wanted to play the game your way, I'd be you. I'd have no problem fighting for my loot, but I'm not allowed. Defending my salvage is considered a criminal act. If you don't like the salvage laws of empire then move away, but you also loose protection. If you really want to stop them scanning you dont complete the mission and salvage with an ABing destroyer I use an eris + MWD + 8 salvagers and work on the large wrecks first, then again I have skills. That way they would never stand a chance of salvaging before me. I use a MWD Catalyst w/4 lootbeams and 4 salvagers. Any thief dumb enough to loot a can thus far has invariably left in their pod. Well either salvage faster or dont complete the mission. Simple as that if you still want to run in empire. --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:50:00 - [19] Originally by: War Fairy Originally by: Arana Tellen If you really want to stop them scanning you dont complete the mission and salvage with an ABing destroyer I use an eris + MWD + 8 salvagers and work on the large wrecks first, then again I have skills. That way they would never stand a chance of salvaging before me. How does this help if I come in and start salvaging while you are still running the mission? As for the OPs comment. Your logic is ******. If they think it's not stealing then then don't have to ask permissions, or buy bookmarks, or anything. Why would they ask permission for doing something that's not wrong? If you don't like me salvaging your wrecks shoot me. As far as I know scanning a mission in progress is extremely difficult. Even if they do just warp out and let the mission rats kill them lol. --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:51:00 - [20] I think they just want profit. And the joy of reading forum threads's like this ---------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything. Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:53:00 - [21] Originally by: Empire marketslave i think you guys are missing the point of the OP he is mad about people going out of thier way to salvage his stuff here is an example take a system with lots of asteroid belts that is a mission running system Xaen is running a mission and I am ratting in the belt. Since i just want to rat since salvaging slows me down i leave the wrecks. Some Guy comes in a scanner ships scans him down and takes the wrecks before he can even get a tractor beam on them when he could just go to the belt and salvage mine, or run his own mission, or get a BM from someone who doesn't want to salavage thier mission wrecks. I will point out that this is a repeat of the people whining about jet cans stealing and looks what came out of being able to shoot the can stealer You are not looking at this from the salvagers point of view, if I am salvaging, and in the same system I can choose crappy frigate wrecks in a belt, or BS and cruiser wrecks from mission runners, I am going to go out of my way to get the better wrecks, as it will put more ISK in my wallet. -=^=-
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:54:00 - [22] Originally by: Billy Sastard You are not looking at this from the salvagers point of view, if I am salvaging, and in the same system I can choose crappy frigate wrecks in a belt, or BS and cruiser wrecks from mission runners, I am going to go out of my way to get the better wrecks, as it will put more ISK in my wallet. Do you only salvage, thus leaving cans with the loot for the mission runner, or do you completely clear the wreck? Just curious. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.09.14 17:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Xaen Insert YET another whine by Xaen... Jesus christ man, is this all you do? If theyre salvaging from ur wrecks, fit a scram to ur ship and pop them if it bothers you that much. They arent going to change the game just because you think that your stuff shouldnt be touched by anyone. It's Space, since when do exclusivity rights apply here? If its in space, its free range and fair game to anyone. Stop your god damn crying, its old already.
War Fairy	Posted - 2007.09.14 18:02:00 - [24] Edited by: War Fairy on 14/09/2007 18:02:45 Originally by: Arana Tellen As far as I know scanning a mission in progress is extremely difficult. You are wrong. If you can get within 4 AU you can find anything in about 220 seconds. Quote: Even if they do just warp out and let the mission rats kill them lol. Yeah those stupid salvagers. They'd never think to warp out too. lol.
Xaen Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2007.09.14 18:03:00 - [25] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Jesus christ man, is this all you do? If theyre salvaging from ur wrecks, fit a scram to ur ship and pop them if it bothers you that much. Yeah, that goes over REAL well with CONCORD. WTS reading comprehension. ----------- Support fixing the EVE UI Drones should not aggro anything missiles or turrets do not.
War Fairy	Posted - 2007.09.14 18:05:00 - [26] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Jesus christ man, is this all you do? If theyre salvaging from ur wrecks, fit a scram to ur ship and pop them if it bothers you that much. Yeah, that goes over REAL well with CONCORD. WTS reading comprehension. It is your choice to be limited by CONCORD.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2007.09.14 18:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Xaen Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Jesus christ man, is this all you do? If theyre salvaging from ur wrecks, fit a scram to ur ship and pop them if it bothers you that much. Yeah, that goes over REAL well with CONCORD. WTS reading comprehension. alright, even more so....that point doesnt help your argument that these wrecks are YOURS! If they WERE your wrecks....then itd be considered stealing...they arent YOUR wrecks, quit yer crying.
Diocles flaming logistics Miners With Attitude	Posted - 2007.09.14 18:24:00 - [28] IÆm confused. I thought that trying to salvage a wreck in someone elseÆs mission would get you flagged?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.14 18:25:00 - [29] Originally by: Diocles IÆm confused. I thought that trying to salvage a wreck in someone elseÆs mission would get you flagged? No. Looting the wreck will, salvaging does not. Originally by: CCP Chronotis Since this thread continues to fight against the people who derail it into the macro miners witchhunt. I will move it to features and ideas discussion where ...
Lord Dynastron Mystical Knights Legionnaire Services Ltd.	Posted - 2007.09.14 18:27:00 - [30] This is where mines would be really really cool. Didnt Eve have mines,, like,, 4 years ago.. I seem to remember them. Lol... I seem to remember having them in my hanger right now actually. I wanna say I have 'anaconda mines'? Obviously a mined wreck would not flag the miner.

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