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Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:38:00 - [61] Originally by: General Windypops Did I miss the post where Goons explained the useful role that the 50+ noob ships they threw into the system contributed to reducing lag? The point is not entirely in reducing lag- if the goal was to reduce lag then no one would show up to fight, period. The purpose of this whole discussion is in maximizing the ability of human players to play the game in whatever ship they choose to, and how auto-aggressing fighter swarms make this much more difficult. Perhaps fighter code should be modified to reduce lag-inducing calculations, or the number of fighters should be decreased with a corresponding boost to health and DPS, or maybe we could start with eliminating auto-aggression in situations where no one can lock. Now you're up to speed. :)
Dagam GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:39:00 - [62] Originally by: General Windypops Edited by: General Windypops on 15/09/2007 20:35:59 Did I miss the post where Goons explained the useful role that the 50+ noob ships they threw into the system played in lag reduction? About ten hours after the huge battle in 00YZ and a couple more towers were coming out of reinforced, we suicided a bunch of ships into the gatecamp (that had been sitting there without any action for hours) killing some T2 frigates and a battlecruiser or so.
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:42:00 - [63] Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: Dagam Well, that's because you're dumb. 5 drones means you can micromanage them better so it was actually a buff to drones reducing them from 15 to 5. The Damnation is way better in its current incarnation than it was before so I don't know what you're complaining about. you lose one drone, you lose HUGE amount of DPS. also, less drones there are, easier to grab them and destroy them due to locking times. in no way were the drones buffed, they were nerfed. complain that i trained to use 1 skil set to use a ship . . ..then it changed "in referene to the damnation" 15>5 i enjoyed that much more. . ..all thi coming down to fighters is the funny thing . .. . .open a fleet window with 200 people in it . ...1. the chance of it getting all stuck with your overview is about 50% 2. it lags like hell . . .bad design . . .things like this could be fixed first. makes you glad you traied the fleet commander skill lol . . .oh and don't forget to set your gang boosters :)
Ms DaisyMae Burning Bush Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:42:00 - [64] Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Sasha Evergreen Originally by: Florio There were no fighters deployed when you jumped in. I trust your killboard more than your word. Everyone else will to. There wasn't even any capital ships camping the gate, they were all repping the pos. Fight started, carriers stayed at the pos. HOSTILE CYNO GOES UP (this bit is important, yes, cuz like, wewt, HOSTILE CAPITALS ARE JUMPING IN) (I emphasised the bits that you need to comprehend). So, any sane FC, knowing that a good portion of the 100 or so confirmed and active hostile capital ships are jumping in brings in their counter. In this case, our carrier fleet. Carriers hit warp, for some it took 15 minutes before they warped. Carriers were ordered to drop fighters when they arrived on grid and NOT before. Some of us managed to issue the engage command and actually cause some damage. Now, you can trust the killboard as much as you like, but then you can realise all killboards present are stastics, they don't present a story. Why does nobody believe you?
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:45:00 - [65] Originally by: Ms DaisyMae Why does nobody believe you? Perhaps it's the long history of deliberate deceit and, more importantly, abject inaccuracy.
Dagam GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:45:00 - [66] Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: Dagam Well, that's because you're dumb. 5 drones means you can micromanage them better so it was actually a buff to drones reducing them from 15 to 5. The Damnation is way better in its current incarnation than it was before so I don't know what you're complaining about. you lose one drone, you lose HUGE amount of DPS. also, less drones there are, easier to grab them and destroy them due to locking times. in no way were the drones buffed, they were nerfed. Look how stupid you are. Dominix and Ishtar could field multiple waves of heavys and never loses a "HUGE amount of dps" by "losing one drone." Myrmidon didn't even exist yet.
5ATAN Gallente SATANS SLAVES	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:46:00 - [67] ^^^^ Can you say photoshop Goons never seize to amaze me you complain about lag this and exploit this when your the worst of the lot for meta/out of game underhand tactics not to mention lag causing tactics to deliberatly crash the nodes to obtain a unfair advantage in a fight... remember LV anybody ? (and before you call me a bob alt i dont care to much for them either) stop ***ing about figher spam causing lag and being unfair if you cant handle alliance warfare then run along back to empire...actually do the community a favor and ** off back to wow
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:47:00 - [68] Originally by: Ms DaisyMae Originally by: Dianabolic Originally by: Sasha Evergreen Originally by: Florio There were no fighters deployed when you jumped in. I trust your killboard more than your word. Everyone else will to. There wasn't even any capital ships camping the gate, they were all repping the pos. Fight started, carriers stayed at the pos. HOSTILE CYNO GOES UP (this bit is important, yes, cuz like, wewt, HOSTILE CAPITALS ARE JUMPING IN) (I emphasised the bits that you need to comprehend). So, any sane FC, knowing that a good portion of the 100 or so confirmed and active hostile capital ships are jumping in brings in their counter. In this case, our carrier fleet. Carriers hit warp, for some it took 15 minutes before they warped. Carriers were ordered to drop fighters when they arrived on grid and NOT before. Some of us managed to issue the engage command and actually cause some damage. Now, you can trust the killboard as much as you like, but then you can realise all killboards present are stastics, they don't present a story. Why does nobody believe you? denial
Ms DaisyMae Burning Bush Enterprises	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:47:00 - [69] Originally by: Kola XXX Originally by: Dagam Originally by: Kola XXX this pic is a station and not an up to date pic....not any current event . . .wow ....sad....cuz goons and RA never attacked a station with a bunch of fighters Thouands of any unit will cause problems no matter what...live with it......and don't bring useless lagging ibis and shuttles to fights..less wrecks,less players less lag... you don't need that trash to beat the inferior enemy right? oh and JV1V was awsome......yeah goons rock...what a good job. Not a lagsploit in sight.....keep crying, it is fueling our jumpdrives Note: BoB also claimed at first t20 didn't cheat and it was just a witch hunt. If you look at the whole picture you will see the pic is indeed 00YZ and at the R97 gate. Is it a surprise BoB lies to themselves and others to make themselves look better? wow dude... i'm not trying to sound like I'm hatin' ya. Don't gotta get all cryin on me... and talk of T20 and lies....plz guy..befiore i dig up them pics of the goon +/- standing indicator hack you were usin. . .err talk to some of the nub you have scammed . ..goon never had e-honor to defend so stop defending nothing Is that the best you can come up with after having your hand caught in the cookie jar?
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:50:00 - [70] Originally by: 5ATAN ^^^^ Can you say photoshop Goons never seize to amaze me you complain about lag this and exploit this when your the worst of the lot for meta/out of game underhand tactics not to mention lag causing tactics to deliberatly crash the nodes to obtain a unfair advantage in a fight... remember LV anybody ? (and before you call me a bob alt i dont care to much for them either) stop ***ing about figher spam causing lag and being unfair if you cant handle alliance warfare then run along back to empire...actually do the community a favor and ** off back to wow "meta/out of game underhand tactics" aren't relevant to the discussion at hand, though I'm sure someone could come up with some pretty funny examples about titans killed offline, cheating developers, and MSN. The battles with LV have been brought up ad infinitum- how would you have proposed that RSF attack a heavily defended deadend system at one specific, crucial time? In that scenario, the "blob" was unavoidable. In the scenario at hand, the blob is unlikely to be avoided, so let's keep the blob and fix one of the biggest lag problems- Auto-aggressing drones. Do you see the difference in the situations here? If not, ask anyone in the thread, BoB or goon- they're all smart enough to break it down for you.
Shoukei Boobs Ahoy	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:52:00 - [71] i have a solution. remove drones from the game to reduce lag and prevent lag in major fleet battles! once this is done, nodes will magically be able to handle 500 people on the same grid. here be signatures!
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:53:00 - [72] Originally by: 5ATAN ^^^^ Can you say photoshop You won the thread. Now try reading it again, you might find something interesting...
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:55:00 - [73] Originally by: Shoukei i have a solution. remove drones from the game to reduce lag and prevent lag in major fleet battles! once this is done, nodes will magically be able to handle 500 people on the same grid. From the other thread...I said: Facetious or not, this is a valid argument. Past a certain point, the lag they create is going to be small next to the coolness factor of having drones in the game. That's where it becomes crucial to eliminate auto-aggression in lag prone environments, where the side with the grid loaded can decimate an opposing fleet with AI, even when players on both sides can't lock.
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:56:00 - [74] Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:56:13 Auto-aggressAutoAuto-aggressing drones-aggressingAuto-aggressing drones dronesing droneAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronessAuto-aggAuto-aggressing dronesressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones.....waaahhhhh just checking here......we can al fit drones right ? f.o.f. missles? smartbombs ? auto targeters...we can all prie our weapons ? can we stop saying Auto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones
Inosin Caldari Stardust Heavy Industries	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:59:00 - [75] Look at the picture... I say it a third time the solution for this is alrdy there. Just get 10 Bombers in few hours earlier this is about 200 Mil of cost including 10 bombs. If 5 of them manage to deploy their present (no targeting needed)they can go down with a smile because ALL THIS FIGHTERS WOULD BE ERIDICATED IN FEW SECONDS lets say 200 of them this are 3000Mil Damage for a 200mil Investment.. PLS Redsmarm USE BOMBS!
5ATAN Gallente SATANS SLAVES	Posted - 2007.09.15 20:59:00 - [76] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Originally by: 5ATAN how would you have proposed that RSF attack a heavily defended deadend system at one specific, crucial time? In that scenario, the "blob" was unavoidable. . for one i would not of had 100's of peeps jumping in and out of gates to crash the node out
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:00:00 - [77] Originally by: Kola XXX Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:57:53 Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:56:13 Auto-aggressAutoAuto-aggressing drones-aggressingAuto-aggressing drones dronesing droneAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronessAuto-aggAuto-aggressing dronesressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones.....waaahhhhh just checking here......we can al fit drones right ? f.o.f. missles? smartbombs ? auto targeters...we can all prime our weapons ? can we stop saying Auto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones Auto-agressing drones in laggy situations can't tear up an enemy before they load the grid? I could be wrong.
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:03:00 - [78] Originally by: 5ATAN Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Originally by: 5ATAN how would you have proposed that RSF attack a heavily defended deadend system at one specific, crucial time? In that scenario, the "blob" was unavoidable. the same way bob did . . .. change tactic..if you thinks its unfair....go capture a dead end system and fortify
Sentinel Eeex Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:03:00 - [79] Originally by: Kola XXX Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:57:53 Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:56:13 Auto-aggressAutoAuto-aggressing drones-aggressingAuto-aggressing drones dronesing droneAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronessAuto-aggAuto-aggressing dronesressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones.....waaahhhhh just checking here......we can al fit drones right ? f.o.f. missles? smartbombs ? auto targeters...we can all prime our weapons ? can we stop saying Auto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones If I can't activate FoFs, smartbombs or any other mods, that doesn't really help
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:04:00 - [80] Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 15/09/2007 21:05:10 Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 15/09/2007 21:04:20 Originally by: 5ATAN how would you have proposed that RSF attack a heavily defended deadend system at one specific, crucial time? In that scenario, the "blob" was unavoidable. the same way bob did . . .. change tactic..if you thinks its unfair....go capture a dead end system and fortify How about we fix the game, instead? "DEAL WITH IT" when we've already agreed that it sucks isn't really ideal, is it?
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:06:00 - [81] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Originally by: Kola XXX Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:57:53 Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:56:13 Auto-aggressAutoAuto-aggressing drones-aggressingAuto-aggressing drones dronesing droneAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronessAuto-aggAuto-aggressing dronesressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones.....waaahhhhh just checking here......we can al fit drones right ? f.o.f. missles? smartbombs ? auto targeters...we can all prime our weapons ? can we stop saying Auto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones Auto-agressing drones in laggy situations can't tear up an enemy before they load the grid? I could be wrong. there wasn't carriers and fighters at the gate when your guys were tryin to load believe it or not. Don't jump into something you should know is gonna go wrong...there was other options
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:08:00 - [82] Originally by: Kola XXX Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Originally by: Kola XXX Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:57:53 Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:56:13 Auto-aggressAutoAuto-aggressing drones-aggressingAuto-aggressing drones dronesing droneAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronessAuto-aggAuto-aggressing dronesressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones.....waaahhhhh just checking here......we can al fit drones right ? f.o.f. missles? smartbombs ? auto targeters...we can all prime our weapons ? can we stop saying Auto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones Auto-agressing drones in laggy situations can't tear up an enemy before they load the grid? I could be wrong. there wasn't carriers and fighters at the gate when your guys were tryin to load believe it or not. Don't jump into something you should know is gonna go wrong...there was other options There were absolutely other options in that case. I'm talking in general. Would you answer my question: Can auto-agressing drones in laggy situations tear up an enemy before they load the grid?
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:08:00 - [83] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 15/09/2007 21:05:10 Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 15/09/2007 21:04:20 Originally by: 5ATAN how would you have proposed that RSF attack a heavily defended deadend system at one specific, crucial time? In that scenario, the "blob" was unavoidable. the same way bob did . . .. change tactic..if you thinks its unfair....go capture a dead end system and fortify How about we fix the game, instead? "DEAL WITH IT" when we've already agreed that it sucks isn't really ideal, is it? unfortunately we are dealing with the "now" not the "what would be great" time .
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:09:00 - [84] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Originally by: General Windypops Did I miss the post where Goons explained the useful role that the 50+ noob ships they threw into the system contributed to reducing lag? The point is not entirely in reducing lag- if the goal was to reduce lag then no one would show up to fight, period. The purpose of this whole discussion is in maximizing the ability of human players to play the game in whatever ship they choose to, and how auto-aggressing fighter swarms make this much more difficult. Perhaps fighter code should be modified to reduce lag-inducing calculations, or the number of fighters should be decreased with a corresponding boost to health and DPS, or maybe we could start with eliminating auto-aggression in situations where no one can lock. Now you're up to speed. :) This is a red herring and should be treated accordingly. To claim that autoagression somehow killed those capital ships is laughable. You have to shoot at something to aggro drones/fighters, so unless those dreads took it in turn to shoot each carrier (impossible in lag) then autoaggression had ZERO EFFECT on the outcome of the fight. I mean, you have to able to target and activate a module to trigger the autoagression, which by definition means you're not 100% lagged out. ----------
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:11:00 - [85] Originally by: Kola XXX Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 15/09/2007 21:05:10 Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 15/09/2007 21:04:20 Originally by: 5ATAN how would you have proposed that RSF attack a heavily defended deadend system at one specific, crucial time? In that scenario, the "blob" was unavoidable. the same way bob did . . .. change tactic..if you thinks its unfair....go capture a dead end system and fortify How about we fix the game, instead? "DEAL WITH IT" when we've already agreed that it sucks isn't really ideal, is it? unfortunately we are dealing with the "now" not the "what would be great" time . The whole point of the thread is some yahoo talking about how drones shouldn't be fixed because 'lol whiny goons.' You and I are talking about how things are pretty unfair right now. I think they should be fixed. You suggested that RSF 'just deal with it' like you say that BoB has. We ARE talking about "what would be great."
Yggdrassill Yeltsin The Greater Goon	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:12:00 - [86] Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 15/09/2007 21:15:27 Originally by: Butter Dog You have to shoot at something to aggro drones/fighters, so unless those dreads took it in turn to shoot each carrier (impossible in lag) then autoaggression had ZERO EFFECT on the outcome of the fight. I mean, you have to able to target and activate a module to trigger the autoagression, which by definition means you're not 100% lagged out. Pretty sure this is untrue. Granted, I'm not talking about a specific engagement and have no idea which one you are referring to- it could have been one where there was an actual fight. I hate to "run away" mid-argument, but I've been ****ing around on here too long. Yes, I'm not 100% sure. Yes, you could be right. Yes, because I don't respond to whatever you say after this, it means you absolutely beat me. Cheers!
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:12:00 - [87] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin There were absolutely other options in that case. I'm talking in general. Would you answer my question: Can auto-agressing drones in laggy situations tear up an enemy before they load the grid? NO, because you have to shoot at something to trigger the autoagression. The fighters don't fly around on their own looking for targets. ----------
Butter Dog The Littlest Hobos Betrayal Under Mayhem	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:13:00 - [88] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Edited by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin on 15/09/2007 21:11:55 Originally by: Butter Dog You have to shoot at something to aggro drones/fighters, so unless those dreads took it in turn to shoot each carrier (impossible in lag) then autoaggression had ZERO EFFECT on the outcome of the fight. I mean, you have to able to target and activate a module to trigger the autoagression, which by definition means you're not 100% lagged out. Pretty sure this is untrue. I'm 100% sure it is true and I see happen in my carrier many times. ----------
Kola XXX Black Eclipse Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:17:00 - [89] Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Originally by: Kola XXX Originally by: Yggdrassill Yeltsin Originally by: Kola XXX Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:57:53 Edited by: Kola XXX on 15/09/2007 20:56:13 Auto-aggressAutoAuto-aggressing drones-aggressingAuto-aggressing drones dronesing droneAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronessAuto-aggAuto-aggressing dronesressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones.....waaahhhhh just checking here......we can al fit drones right ? f.o.f. missles? smartbombs ? auto targeters...we can all prime our weapons ? can we stop saying Auto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing dronesAuto-aggressing drones Auto-agressing drones in laggy situations can't tear up an enemy before they load the grid? I could be wrong. there wasn't carriers and fighters at the gate when your guys were tryin to load believe it or not. Don't jump into something you should know is gonna go wrong...there was other options There were absolutely other options in that case. I'm talking in general. Would you answer my question: Can auto-agressing drones in laggy situations tear up an enemy before they load the grid? I have jumped into hostile fleets but only loaded a few ships on overview..... I have had hostle fleets jump in on me and also only loaded a few of hundreds. Who loads imo usually favors the guys comin in . .. you prolly see the hosties before they see you..or at least some of them. . . .. . would f.o.f.spam,sb's, or any other auto attack be this same injustice ?....chance of killing someone you can't see in any fleet fight...good chance...it's not fighters. I activate guns on guys....guns never seem to turn on .. . after the fight i have the killmail .. .. alot goes on you can't see but it is same for everyone.
Skelator Stronghold corp Curse Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.15 21:18:00 - [90] Edited by: Skelator on 15/09/2007 21:19:56 Originally by: ED 209 Sinc they cried and got their way, they have done nothing but make major asses out of themselves, like the threadnought. If anything CCP is going to tell them to ** off. Actually ED I think good old Hank above is another Alt of yours and your just starting a flame thread against your worst enemy. Times must be hard huh? A Salute 07 to all the BOB and BOB pets that Actually post with their MAINS** and do not hide behind Alts! Those BOB members are the ones who have class and courage as far as I am concerned. Our Knights/GhostFleet are available for small honorable contracts. Phasmatis Velox Equitatus

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