| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Harry Paratesteas
   |
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:39:00 -
[1]
It has come to mind that these are still out there and in the hands of owner, while the rest of us have no chance of getting at them, unless you invent and get a bpc or buy one for gazillion isk and only if you're lucky. I think it's time for all them t2 bpos to become long run bpcs and let everyone that produces be on a even playing ground. You want T2 then invent. I don't really care if it drives prices up. I don't care if they make t2 bpo owners mad. They can invent just like the rest of us schlubs. Flame away boys & girls, cause I really don't care. CCP really needs to seriously consider this. Thank you for your time.
|
Zoopfury
Veld Junkies
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:40:00 -
[2]
POST WITH YOUR MAIN!!!
|
Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:41:00 -
[3]
A lot of people spent bilions to buy a t2 bpo. Why dont you work your arse off and buy one aswell instead of whining?
- Gob
Stealth bombers work! |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
Sicarri Covenant
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:43:00 -
[4]
And whining with an alt 
 Originally by: Liz Kali
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Originally by: TheDagda
*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing
|
Derovius Vaden
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:49:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
And whining with an alt
Post with your main!
|
Atreus Danerun
Amarr
Caldari Bank
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:50:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
A lot of people spent bilions to buy a t2 bpo. Why dont you work your arse off and buy one aswell instead of whining?
- Gob
Pretty much my sentiment. We have all those green-eyed jealous ALTs running around demanding CCP nerf T2 BPOs.
Wake up, most BPOs that are currently in game have been bought from the lucky ones who won them.
Just because you are jealous of others does not mean you have to come in here and kill their livelihood. Even the "uber" T2 BPOS like some Hacs, Command, Recon ships and of course Hulk, are NOT ISK Printing machines they used to be.
It is actually quite a logistical nightmare to run a T2 BPO production line, especially if you build your own components and build it in large quantities.
Stop whining, and post with your main, hiding behind an alt like a common forum troll.
T2 SALES & SERVICE
|
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:51:00 -
[7]
Why? the monopoly is gone, they are no longer makeing 5,000,000,000% profit or whatever, they make marginley more profit than invented BPC's pureley because they are researched to high ME/PE levels and thats fine, it keeps the prices of T2 equipment low (allthough possabley by undercuting inventors, thats the only negitive point that i can see)
T2 BPO's are not the isk printing mechine they once were, as Goberth said above, if you want whatever it is that T2 BPO's now do, save up and buy one.
-
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Harry Paratesteas
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:53:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Zoopfury
POST WITH YOUR MAIN!!!
Um this is my main. Work huh? This is a game not work. If any of you take it seriously, you seriously need help. Can I get some answers here or is this going to be a flame-fest by t2 bpo owners. If I whine, it's my right to do so. If you don't like it, you don't have to read it or respond.
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:54:00 -
[9]
I don't think I would like to log in one day to find that I was 20 billion isk poorer. And no, that's not perceived value, I paid 20 billion total for my small stack of T2 bpos and that is still their current resale value.
The debate is whether or not to convert T2 bpos to infinite run bpcs in order to prevent copying but that still won't put us on the same level as inventors. There's no way to level the playing field without screwing over people that paid a lot of isk for what was understood at the time to be a permanant investment (a T2 bpo).
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Alski
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Harry Paratesteas
Originally by: Zoopfury
POST WITH YOUR MAIN!!!
Um this is my main. Work huh? This is a game not work. If any of you take it seriously, you seriously need help. Can I get some answers here or is this going to be a flame-fest by t2 bpo owners.
1. Of course you have to work for it if you want it, this is Eve, if you want stuff handed to you on a plate, might a recommend a certain game the name of which begins and ends with a "W".
2. Ahhh i see, so anyone who disagrees with you is a T2 BPO owner? i see.
It is too early to call Troll? 
-
(combat) Patch belonging to CCP hits your drones, wrecking their liberty and freedom. |
Harry Paratesteas
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:57:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Harry Paratesteas on 17/09/2007 22:59:50
Originally by: Nyphur
I don't think I would like to log in one day to find that I was 20 billion isk poorer. And no, that's not perceived value, I paid 20 billion total for my small stack of T2 bpos and that is still their current resale value.
The debate is whether or not to convert T2 bpos to infinite run bpcs in order to prevent copying but that still won't put us on the same level as inventors. There's no way to level the playing field without screwing over people that paid a lot of isk for what was understood at the time to be a permanant investment (a T2 bpo).
Right. I get you. But why cut out those from getting at them? Couldn't there be some other system in place that's different from the old one that I heard about? Some of us would like a chance to actually do whatever to receive these rewards as well, not just buy them from someone who already has them.
|
Derovius Vaden
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 22:57:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Atreus Danerun
Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
A lot of people spent bilions to buy a t2 bpo. Why dont you work your arse off and buy one aswell instead of whining?
- Gob
Pretty much my sentiment. We have all those green-eyed jealous ALTs running around demanding CCP nerf T2 BPOs.
Wake up, most BPOs that are currently in game have been bought from the lucky ones who won them.
Just because you are jealous of others does not mean you have to come in here and kill their livelihood. Even the "uber" T2 BPOS like some Hacs, Command, Recon ships and of course Hulk, are NOT ISK Printing machines they used to be.
It is actually quite a logistical nightmare to run a T2 BPO production line, especially if you build your own components and build it in large quantities.
Stop whining, and post with your main, hiding behind an alt like a common forum troll.
Well, in all fairness, T2 BPO has been shown to be nothing but a sham. T20 incident anyone? How many billions did those people make before someone stumbled on their deal? A hell of alot more than was penalized, thats for sure. Hell, I bet they just bought back the BPO off the market after they had them yonked.
|
Riley Craven
Caldari
Copacetic Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:02:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Riley Craven on 17/09/2007 23:06:25
Originally by: Nyphur
I don't think I would like to log in one day to find that I was 20 billion isk poorer. And no, that's not perceived value, I paid 20 billion total for my small stack of T2 bpos and that is still their current resale value.
The debate is whether or not to convert T2 bpos to infinite run bpcs in order to prevent copying but that still won't put us on the same level as inventors. There's no way to level the playing field without screwing over people that paid a lot of isk for what was understood at the time to be a permanant investment (a T2 bpo).
Oh oh, FINALLY, a post you are wrong!!! Ya.
The solution to your situation is very simple.
Convert t2 bpos to have enough runs to build off of them for 1 year.
Most t2 bpos are bought on the presumption of the idea that they will start to be profitable at year 1 (or at least the investment made will have been returned)
Because Eve is a harsh world, and changes happen all the time where people loose billions (JPG buys for example) that is the best you could hope for.
If anyone bought a t2 bpo that would take longer then a year to make returns, then they were foolish and as such have suffered the consequences. In any case commidities over time change, and there really is no arguement that you could make that would legitimize the need for t2 bpos further.
The debate in this case should not be, give me more t2 bpos, or covnert t2 bpos to infinite runs, it should be how much longer do t2 bpos stay in game. Because new items dont have bpos there is no reason the old items should have them either.
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:03:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Nyphur on 17/09/2007 23:06:08
Actually, I'd like to point out that the time it takes to invent a bpc is much shorter than the time it would take to copy the bpo or build that many runs from it. The end result is that bpos are cheaper to build from than the invented bpcs but inventors can produce the items much faster. Cap recharger IIs, for example, take 12 minutes per output run to invent (15 if you count failures, I would guess) but the bpo takes 1 hr 40 minutes per run to copy and 1 hr to build.
A cap recharger II BPO-owner can only build about 24-25 units per day (more with PE) but a good inventor can make nearly a hundred runs worth and isn't restricted to one blueprint, so he can produce on multiple production lines to speed things up (something a bpo-owner can't do). Depending on supply and demand, inventors can rake in more isk than a bpo owner without investing billions in a bpo.
Originally by: Riley Craven
Oh oh, FINALLY, a post you are wrong!!! Ya.The solution to your situation is very simple.
Convert t2 bpos to have enough runs to build off of them for 1 year.
You know as well as I do that this is a matter of opinion and there is no right or wrong. However, as a counterargument, I suggest that I would never have bought any T2 bpos unless I thought them to be a permanant investment. This is a fact, it was my motivation for their purchase and I am not alone.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Oetaka
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:07:00 -
[15]
just for the record i do not own a single T2 BPO. that said i would have to say changeing the t2bpo's in existing in any way or yanking them would be wrong. for reasons already stated and because game or not thecurrent owners put in the time to earn the isk that bought them. and messing with them just because some whiner does not like the idea that he would have to put in alot of time to have one him self would just be wrong.
|
Riley Craven
Caldari
Copacetic Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:08:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Riley Craven on 17/09/2007 23:09:36
Originally by: Nyphur
You know as well as I do that this is a matter of opinion and there is no right or wrong. However, as a counterargument, I suggest that I would never have bought any T2 bpos unless I thought them to be a permanant investment. This is a fact, it was my motivation for their purchase and I am not alone.
Thats a good arguement to make, and frankly about the only one you could have made.
Sadly, you and I both know that NOTHING in Eve is permananant. As such it fails as well.
You might argue stations, and planets are permanant... but at the rate all the foolish PvPers are complaining for a slash and burn option those wont be either.
Eve is a game of change... you of all people should know that. Its not about infinity, its about adapting and living in a harsh world.
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:16:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Riley Craven
You might argue stations, and planets are permanant... but at the rate all the foolish PvPers are complaining for a slash and burn option those wont be either.
Are you suggesting we be allowed to destroy planets?
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Riley Craven
Caldari
Copacetic Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:18:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Riley Craven
You might argue stations, and planets are permanant... but at the rate all the foolish PvPers are complaining for a slash and burn option those wont be either.
Are you suggesting we be allowed to destroy planets?
Lol, I dont know maybe? At this point it wouldnt matter either way as they serve no purpose other than for moons to orbit.
I am sure would Molle would love the option to use the doomsday on a couple Goon held planets...
|
Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:24:00 -
[19]
I say we turn the whole of EVE into Hello Kitty in space.
Nerf T2 BPOs.
Seed ALL ships on the Market at their mineral cost.
Make Platinum Insurance 10th of its current value and have it pay out 110% Of the ship.
Give everyone 50 Million SP/and Specialization in their choice of Ships.
Make POS cost 1/100th of what they cost now.
Allow ships to travel instantly w/o cynos or anything across the universe.
Give every noob who joins 5 Billion ISk instead of 5 thousand.
Voila! Problem solved, and we can close the server.
Why should anyone work for that they got? When we can just come and whine on forums till we get our way and dumb the game down to the point where its just another bloody WOW clone.
Good Luck.
|
BubbaZanetti
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:38:00 -
[20]
Edited by: BubbaZanetti on 17/09/2007 23:38:22
Originally by: Nyphur
Actually, I'd like to point out that the time it takes to invent a bpc is much shorter than the time it would take to copy the bpo or build that many runs from it.
This in no way makes up for our %40-%90 material waste. In combo with the invention costs themselves, building a single HAC costs me three times as much as a BPO holder.
That's in no way reasonable.
I do not think the solution is turning BPO's into high run BPC's. That's the easiest way out, but it screws too many people.
If we had a way to "research" the invention produced BPC's up to ME0, we still have a lot of overhead from the invention costs themselves, but it puts us (inventors) MUCH closer to where BPO holders are at, profit wise (our profit won't change any, we'll still just eek out enough to keep us going, but the prices of the items will fall down to the point that BPO holders are only making a ten mil or so more than us per unit).
|
Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Total Comfort
|
Posted - 2007.09.17 23:57:00 -
[21]
Originally by: BubbaZanetti
Originally by: Nyphur
Actually, I'd like to point out that the time it takes to invent a bpc is much shorter than the time it would take to copy the bpo or build that many runs from it.
This in no way makes up for our %40-%90 material waste. In combo with the invention costs themselves, building a single HAC costs me three times as much as a BPO holder.
I will give you that point but only regarding ship invention and build costs. Module 40% wastes and invention chances are a lot less significant. Ship invention, I will agree, needs some serious tweaking.
Eve-Tanking.com - We're sorry, something happened. |
Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 00:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: BubbaZanetti
Edited by: BubbaZanetti on 17/09/2007 23:38:22
Originally by: Nyphur
Actually, I'd like to point out that the time it takes to invent a bpc is much shorter than the time it would take to copy the bpo or build that many runs from it.
This in no way makes up for our %40-%90 material waste. In combo with the invention costs themselves, building a single HAC costs me three times as much as a BPO holder.
That's in no way reasonable.
I do not think the solution is turning BPO's into high run BPC's. That's the easiest way out, but it screws too many people.
If we had a way to "research" the invention produced BPC's up to ME0, we still have a lot of overhead from the invention costs themselves, but it puts us (inventors) MUCH closer to where BPO holders are at, profit wise (our profit won't change any, we'll still just eek out enough to keep us going, but the prices of the items will fall down to the point that BPO holders are only making a ten mil or so more than us per unit).
The two things have nothing in common, invention is like manufacturing, inventing a ship is only another part of its manufacturing process with resources as input. You can boost the production ammount by investing in new chars for slots and more resources and drop mroe goods on the market till it saturates.
T2 ship bpo is an investement. You spend a ton and it returns so much over time. You cannot boost the ammount built its just that, a lot of money you dump into the bpo for it to print some for you every month.
- Gob
Stealth bombers work! |
Cassiuss
Minmatar
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 00:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Harry Paratesteas
It has come to mind that these are still out there and in the hands of owner, while the rest of us have no chance of getting at them, unless you invent and get a bpc or buy one for gazillion isk and only if you're lucky. I think it's time for all them t2 bpos to become long run bpcs and let everyone that produces be on a even playing ground. You want T2 then invent. I don't really care if it drives prices up. I don't care if they make t2 bpo owners mad. They can invent just like the rest of us schlubs. Flame away boys & girls, cause I really don't care. CCP really needs to seriously consider this. Thank you for your time.
For those corps who have been around a few years, changing them into long run BPCs isn't even an option. A good portion of the player base would quit and CCP would have some pretty angry people/corps/alliances to deal with. Which I am sure they don't want when there are better solutions.
I would gather that these BPOs will come in handy again once Tech3 is introduced. Once T3 starts you T2 inventors will have a niche market.
Feel better? Just play the waiting game like the rest of us.
Oh and pay no attention to Gob, he has had his whines in the past I am sure. 
|
Goberth Ludwig
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 00:52:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Cassiuss
Originally by: Harry Paratesteas
It has come to mind that these are still out there and in the hands of owner, while the rest of us have no chance of getting at them, unless you invent and get a bpc or buy one for gazillion isk and only if you're lucky. I think it's time for all them t2 bpos to become long run bpcs and let everyone that produces be on a even playing ground. You want T2 then invent. I don't really care if it drives prices up. I don't care if they make t2 bpo owners mad. They can invent just like the rest of us schlubs. Flame away boys & girls, cause I really don't care. CCP really needs to seriously consider this. Thank you for your time.
For those corps who have been around a few years, changing them into long run BPCs isn't even an option. A good portion of the player base would quit and CCP would have some pretty angry people/corps/alliances to deal with. Which I am sure they don't want when there are better solutions.
I would gather that these BPOs will come in handy again once Tech3 is introduced. Once T3 starts you T2 inventors will have a niche market.
Feel better? Just play the waiting game like the rest of us.
Oh and pay no attention to Gob, he has had his whines in the past I am sure.
The past was simply redicoulus/outrageous. With invention the t2 bpos are back in check, I doubt any t2 bpo out there prints more than 3-5 bil isk a month (used to be what, 15 bil a month from a hulk bpo?)
- Gob
Stealth bombers work! |
Olivin
Gallente
Aquarium
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 02:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Harry Paratesteas
It has come to mind that these are still out there and in the hands of owner, while the rest of us have no chance of getting at them, unless you invent and get a bpc or buy one for gazillion isk and only if you're lucky.
It has come to my mind, that there are some people who join Eve years ago and now have millions of SP, while the rest of us have no chance to catch up. This is outrageous!!
----------------------------
WeŚre not lost. WeŚre locationally challenged. |
Riley Craven
Caldari
Copacetic Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 03:25:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/09/2007 03:26:37
Originally by: Cassiuss
For those corps who have been around a few years, changing them into long run BPCs isn't even an option. A good portion of the player base would quit and CCP would have some pretty angry people/corps/alliances to deal with. Which I am sure they don't want when there are better solutions.
I would gather that these BPOs will come in handy again once Tech3 is introduced. Once T3 starts you T2 inventors will have a niche market.
Feel better? Just play the waiting game like the rest of us.
Oh and pay no attention to Gob, he has had his whines in the past I am sure.
Thats pretty funny mate. Do you realize how many changes have happened over the course of this game that have sucked? Sure a couple people might leave, but all your doomsaying will amount to squat. The bottom line is you dont know the true outcome and are merely guessing off of unreliable data.
Besides do you even know what your talking about in regardes to T3??? Unlikely. T3 as stated by TomB or another dev are supposed to be modules that handle heat better, not more uber mods. How on earth you think T2 BPO holders will benefit from this is beyond comprehension.
I know for a fact this probably would hurt BoB the most. I was with BoB when I made the initial call for t2 BPOS to be changed. I suggest you think about what your corp name actually means for a change. People dont win because they live in the past, they win because they stay ahead of the game. I think TWD provided a perfect showcase of that concept in the Allaince Tourny. Good Day.
|
Xilimyth Derlin
Gallente
OldBastardsPub
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 03:31:00 -
[27]
Ok, we'll make a compromise. Make all those Tech 2 BPOs BPCs...
However, they get a number of runs equal to the maximum value of an integer... or perhaps an unsigned integer :D. *grins evilly*
|
Riley Craven
Caldari
Copacetic Corporation
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 03:54:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Xilimyth Derlin
Ok, we'll make a compromise. Make all those Tech 2 BPOs BPCs...
However, they get a number of runs equal to the maximum value of an integer... or perhaps an unsigned integer :D. *grins evilly*
bits or bytes :)
|
Xilimyth Derlin
Gallente
OldBastardsPub
SMASH Alliance
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 04:01:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Riley Craven
Originally by: Xilimyth Derlin
Ok, we'll make a compromise. Make all those Tech 2 BPOs BPCs...
However, they get a number of runs equal to the maximum value of an integer... or perhaps an unsigned integer :D. *grins evilly*
bits or bytes :)
I keep forgetting that not everyone's a programmer :D 2.1 billion runs in a BPO should keep anyone more then occupied and be a good compromise ^^
|
Cassiuss
Minmatar
Evolution
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2007.09.18 04:41:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Riley Craven
Edited by: Riley Craven on 18/09/2007 03:26:37
Originally by: Cassiuss
For those corps who have been around a few years, changing them into long run BPCs isn't even an option. A good portion of the player base would quit and CCP would have some pretty angry people/corps/alliances to deal with. Which I am sure they don't want when there are better solutions.
I would gather that these BPOs will come in handy again once Tech3 is introduced. Once T3 starts you T2 inventors will have a niche market.
Feel better? Just play the waiting game like the rest of us.
Oh and pay no attention to Gob, he has had his whines in the past I am sure.
Thats pretty funny mate. Do you realize how many changes have happened over the course of this game that have sucked? Sure a couple people might leave, but all your doomsaying will amount to squat. The bottom line is you dont know the true outcome and are merely guessing off of unreliable data.
Besides do you even know what your talking about in regardes to T3??? Unlikely. T3 as stated by TomB or another dev are supposed to be modules that handle heat better, not more uber mods. How on earth you think T2 BPO holders will benefit from this is beyond comprehension.
I know for a fact this probably would hurt BoB the most. I was with BoB when I made the initial call for t2 BPOS to be changed. I suggest you think about what your corp name actually means for a change. People dont win because they live in the past, they win because they stay ahead of the game. I think TWD provided a perfect showcase of that concept in the Allaince Tourny. Good Day.
Oh noes! Alt smack.
Of course I was guessing, I have no idea what's to come thats the beauty and fun in anticipating. I wasn't speaking as an authority just someone who is looking forward to some new changes.
As for my corp or BoB, sounds like your the one living in the past m8. Get over it, enjoy your empire corp no need for bitter grapes here. Move on...evolve if you will. 
T2 BPO's will remain as they are for corps and alliances who have invested the bajillions in them. Thats not changing now, or anytime foreseeable. Christ, do you want to drive everyone to empire for ships and mods cause your average pvper whos fighting the war on terror ain't doin invention out in o.o, or maybe you lost sight of that. Well maybe those gheys in the drone regions are but the rest dont :)
Anyhow, T3 is a comin and that should prove very cool.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |