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Is Amarr really that bad?

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Hurricane	Posted - 2007.09.30 23:39:00 - [121] Cyno? You think small LUKEC. Abaddon with Erebus in gang > Mega. Amarr are fine.
Megadon Caldari Deathshead Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.01 00:16:00 - [122] Amarr sucks comparatively to what other races have as options until you get to capital ships period. I've got 8 million sp's in laser weapons and 40 million total and on a ship per ship basis, amarr is lacking. Boil it down to doing only em and therm damage if you like. Gallente is best all around. If you want to cross train, I would go with caldari (for pve) or minny (for pvp). --------------
Liang Nuren The Refugees	Posted - 2007.10.01 00:35:00 - [123] Originally by: Goumindong 15km web on the abaddon with 0 second lock time? No, the thron gets close, possibly gets a good bump as well. He speaks the truth. The Megathron is going to obliterate the Abbadon here (imho). Liang Yarr?
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.10.01 01:00:00 - [124] would the thron have to reload to kill the abaddon? if so, would the 10 seconds make the difference?
Mr Armitage	Posted - 2007.10.01 02:30:00 - [125] looking at the new dev blogi think it's appropriate to say that the eve community agrees that Amarr ships aren't up to par with the rest. There are other variables, such as looks, race descriptions, etc. but given the climate of people whining for an amarr boost for the past eon, these graphs are hard to ignore as evidence reinforcing the 'amarr lacks something' argument.
Sikiros Novaken	Posted - 2007.10.01 03:01:00 - [126] Edited by: Sikiros Novaken on 01/10/2007 03:07:15 In every mmo there is a group or class that gets ****ed on by everyone else. In the original everquests it was the Ranger. You know which class was the first with a character to hit the level cap in the original EQ? Thats right, a Ranger. Amarr are not nearly as bad as some would have you believe. First, ignore any "this ship beats that ship" posts. One on ones are rare in eve, plus there are a thousand variables those arguements never take into account. Player skill and the details of the situation are just as important as ship vs. ship. In truth, lasers could use some love. Back in the old days when you could add as many dammage mods as you want without a stacking penalty the Amarr were the kings of dammage. Lasers burned the crap out of things, and things like cap use and dammage type balanced that out. There have been enough changes to modules and game mechanics since then that Amarr no longer have that "OMFG" dammage output. Despite this, (and you can read through this thread to find examples) many players will sight several Amarr laser ships as competent dammage dealers (examples, Harbinger, Armageddon, Abbadon). In addition, the Amarr have many non-laser ships options. For drones, the Arbirator, and its T2 version, the Curse and the Pilgrim, are generally acknowledged as solid pvp ships. There are now also the new Khanid Mk. II ships, which give you the option of specializing in missiles instead of guns. My sense is that these ships have been pretty well received by the community as solid ships. Amarr ships are not the best solo, but they are not the only race in that situation. (Caldari). They are skill point intensive to really make their ships shine, but again they are not the only ones in that boat(Minmatar, who probably have it worse on that issue). Yes, lasers could use some love, but I think the ship line overall is playable. Not the easiest, but certainly playable. If the Amarr appeal to you, go ahead and train Amarr. They are certainly playable as they are, and are probably due for some more love from the Devs at some point. P.S. The stats in the recent dev blog do show that Amarr are the least popular race, but that only means that they are the least popular, not the worst. Its often said that Amarr is eve on "Hard Mode". The most popular race by ship type is Caldari, but they are generally seen as having pvp issues as well. I think that these stats represent popularity, not absolute strength.
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.10.01 03:38:00 - [127] Originally by: LUKEC Only problem is ... your abaddon is only good for camping station at some specific range against specific ship for specific purpose when fighting pretty much standard ghetto thron setup. Great eh? What if thron decides to camp you straight at undock point :P P.s. Stop talking crap. hp buffer tanks only work with really badass dps, abaddon has good dps, but for 1000 dps you need 3 hs. And for 40k armor you need 2 plates with 3 trimarks t1 and someone in gang with armor mindlink(basicly, for solo you need 3 plates, that's why your posts don't make sense). That leaves you with almighty resists of 2 lowslots for resists. Ofc, you can calculate hp when in gang, but then all it takes is cyno on thron :P I refer you to Cown's video. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=578419 I'm not talking crap. Just going off things that were actually documented and not hypothetical. You know...since I don't rely on paper to argue everything on the forums. You guys think every pilot has maxxed out skills and maxxed out "eliteness" at piloting when you don't need jack to kill most people in EVE. I never mentioned DPS either. Don't mix up my posts with other people who use their "elite math skills" (which people argue over even more) on the forums. Goumin - And no my original argument said the Abaddon could start from 10 - 15. Neither ship has instant lock time and both ships are capable of moving. How long does it take an abaddon to lock on to a mega that has it's MWD turned on as well anyways? I'd assume not too long...not to mention the Mega has to turn around to fly towards the Abaddon anyways. --- Put in space whales!
ViperVenom Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2007.10.01 05:12:00 - [128] Well Ammar are a ok race if u ask me. They 100 armor tank/Have Res boni. Plus a Malles with AC are nasty. I DO NOT want to hear about how they are skill intensive. Ammar Guys can train cap skills and PWN. Ammar Have the best tanking Caps. -Yarr-
Rialtor Amarr Yarrrateers Mass Destruction.	Posted - 2007.10.01 06:38:00 - [129] Originally by: ViperVenom Well Ammar are a ok race if u ask me. They 100 armor tank/Have Res boni. Plus a Malles with AC are nasty. I DO NOT want to hear about how they are skill intensive. Ammar Guys can train cap skills and PWN. Ammar Have the best tanking Caps. You've never flown amarr have you? It's not that you're ok without cap skills, then you train them and your cap problems are gone. You need the cap skills to do anything, without cap skills you are worthless, with them you're probably par at best.
Amarria Black Clan Anthraxx	Posted - 2007.10.01 07:35:00 - [130] Dear non-Amarr flying pilots who have seen fit to post here: The plural of "anecdote" is not "fact". Take a look at the above linked dev blog. Amarr ships are running dead last in just about every economic category worth mentioning. Sure, some of that is affected by player perception, but considering what percentage of a given playerbase actually reads the forums, there's something fundamentally lacking in Amarr ships. Khanid Mk. II was a step in the right direction. Reworking ship bonuses and rebalancing laser weapons are really the only other two big steps needed.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:08:00 - [131] Originally by: Amarria Black Dear non-Amarr flying pilots who have seen fit to post here: The plural of "anecdote" is not "fact". Take a look at the above linked dev blog. Amarr ships are running dead last in just about every economic category worth mentioning. Sure, some of that is affected by player perception, but considering what percentage of a given playerbase actually reads the forums, there's something fundamentally lacking in Amarr ships. Khanid Mk. II was a step in the right direction. Reworking ship bonuses and rebalancing laser weapons are really the only other two big steps needed. QFT: I mean just look at the latest dev blog. Amarr races = dying, and Khanid MK II = life support.
Trishan Green Men Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.01 08:58:00 - [132] Can we get a buff to minnies? They seem to be unable to pick up numbers too.
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.01 09:03:00 - [133] Originally by: Trishan Can we get a buff to minnies? They seem to be unable to pick up numbers too. wts: reading glasses. Go look at table 1.
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.01 10:12:00 - [134] Originally by: Lisento Slaven ... Should take an abaddon at least 5 seconds to lock a Mega with its mwd on. If we arent comparing equivelent skills, then what in the world are we comparing?
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.01 11:00:00 - [135] Originally by: Lisento Slaven Originally by: LUKEC Only problem is ... your abaddon is only good for camping station at some specific range against specific ship for specific purpose when fighting pretty much standard ghetto thron setup. Great eh? What if thron decides to camp you straight at undock point :P P.s. Stop talking crap. hp buffer tanks only work with really badass dps, abaddon has good dps, but for 1000 dps you need 3 hs. And for 40k armor you need 2 plates with 3 trimarks t1 and someone in gang with armor mindlink(basicly, for solo you need 3 plates, that's why your posts don't make sense). That leaves you with almighty resists of 2 lowslots for resists. Ofc, you can calculate hp when in gang, but then all it takes is cyno on thron :P I refer you to Cown's video. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=578419 I'm not talking crap. Just going off things that were actually documented and not hypothetical. You know...since I don't rely on paper to argue everything on the forums. You guys think every pilot has maxxed out skills and maxxed out "eliteness" at piloting when you don't need jack to kill most people in EVE. I never mentioned DPS either. Don't mix up my posts with other people who use their "elite math skills" (which people argue over even more) on the forums. Goumin - And no my original argument said the Abaddon could start from 10 - 15. Neither ship has instant lock time and both ships are capable of moving. How long does it take an abaddon to lock on to a mega that has it's MWD turned on as well anyways? I'd assume not too long...not to mention the Mega has to turn around to fly towards the Abaddon anyways. Nice video, almost as good as die hard. Go watch farjung's vids and it will become obvious how different races are. If sitting at station dock range, abusing stupidly & ********ly too short aggro timer(same as 2 y ago when ships had 50% less hp) and ganking some random n00bs make ships good... well ok, then amarr is fine. But god forbid you have to move 3j.
Neo Rainhart Caldari Sanguine Legion	Posted - 2007.10.01 11:16:00 - [136] I don't know, maybe it's just me, but everytime i fight 1v1 with an abso in my astarte i fail miserably. Everytime i fight an abaddon/geddon in my mega i fail miserably. I have maxed skills in gallente, the one i fight against has maxed skills in amarr. Amarr wins Amarr are the best ships for gate camping due to their guns being able to do max dmg @ 20 km About solo pvp with amarr..well..But solo pvp is getting nerfed in every patch so it doesnt matter
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.01 11:34:00 - [137] Well, the abso has a damage type advantage over the astarte. The astarte does kin.therm and the abso em/therm. As well as a low slot and slight tank bonus advantage The astarte has an ex hole and the Abso a therm hole. So the abso hardens the therm then eanms shore more kin/therm. The astarte hardens ex and then eanms shore up the new low resist of EM. If you are just going to slug it out the absolution will likly win. Nearly the same goes for the Mega, except really you ought to be able to get close and reduce damage due to transversal. Neutron gank, 2-3 plates... As for the video. Wow, those guys suck. They cant bump the guy and they cant fit tech 1 tracking disruptors. They know he is outside, just change your fit for the EM damage, TD him, kill the drones and bump him off the station.
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.10.01 12:08:00 - [138] Originally by: LUKEC Nice video, almost as good as die hard. Go watch farjung's vids and it will become obvious how different races are. If sitting at station dock range, abusing stupidly & ******ly too short aggro timer(same as 2 y ago when ships had 50% less hp) and ganking some random n00bs make ships good... well ok, then amarr is fine. But god forbid you have to move 3j. I'm already aware how different the races are. I can fly all T1 combat ships competently (skill wise) and fly T2 ships for both Amarr and Minmatar. I find both the Amarrian ships and Caldari ships to be severely lacking in small gang warfare vs other ships in EVE. But I still believe they are effective in their intended roles and are entertaining to fly (except for a select few that I think, because everyones posts on here about what they think, need to be changed). The Abaddon is good when moving...just gotta use a different setup than the one in Cown's video too =P Originally by:** Goumindong Should take an abaddon at least 5 seconds to lock a Mega with its mwd on. If we arent comparing equivelent skills, then what in the world are we comparing? I was just talking about how I think scenarios would play out in actuality in the game. That's why I always put exceptions into the things I said ie. "If both pilots were competent neither would be able to kill each other with their plated setups because they could both de-aggress and just dock up." It's kind of like trying to list out every possible scenario in the setups. My Abaddon could web farther than 10km if he had a faction web for example (which isn't unrealistic these days). The only Amarrian ships I personally have a problem with are the Apoc and the Zealot. --- Put in space whales!
Goumindong Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.10.01 12:13:00 - [139] Originally by: Lisento Slaven The only Amarrian ships I personally have a problem with are the Apoc and the Zealot. Because you wouldnt ever bother to fly an Omen, Maller, Prophecy or Punisher. The Omen and the Maller do less damage than a Moa for goodness sake!
Lisento Slaven Amarr BAD ATTITUDES	Posted - 2007.10.01 12:42:00 - [140] Originally by: Goumindong Originally by: Lisento Slaven The only Amarrian ships I personally have a problem with are the Apoc and the Zealot. Because you wouldnt ever bother to fly an Omen, Maller, Prophecy or Punisher. The Omen and the Maller do less damage than a Moa for goodness sake! I used to fly the Maller for level 2's when I was new to the game. I have flown all of those except the Omen. I refuse to fly the Prophecy because it looks like a dead chicken (I know others who fly it on a normal basis though). The Punisher I use only when a(n) Minnie/Amarr Interceptor, Assault Frig, or a Rifter isn't available. Punisher is fun for frig duels on a side note. Essentially the only reason I don't fly those ships is because I have access to higher tech/skill ships. The only t1 ships I tend to fly are battleships and mission ships. I fly the Moa with rails + damps in my "Stupid Ship Fleet" gang. But yeah there's no reason to fly any of the ships you listed because I can fly the T2 variations. Sacrilege is a big one with me, even before the fix, as well as the Retribution. Just to put that in perspective -> I can fly Minmatar commands and HAC's as well but I normally fly the Amarrian ships because I find them more fun. Too bad "fun" isn't an attribute listed on a ship to be argued over mathematically (unless we want to take a poll and throw in some social research =P). --- Put in space whales!
NeoTheo Caldari Dark Materials Fang Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.01 14:31:00 - [141] Edited by: NeoTheo on 01/10/2007 14:32:21 Edited by: NeoTheo on 01/10/2007 14:31:56 tbh, ifyou fit them correctly they are some awsome ships, especially the abbadon. If you deck out the mids with cap recharges, and use CCC's you can run a perma tank setup thats bloody difficult to break. my wingman flys one, and frankly its awsome. it dont do the most DPS in the world, but it isnt shabby, and like i said it tanks forever. most of the folks crying about "cap" are trying to gank and tank at the same time, of fit a tone of mods in the midles slots for tackling, IE they just dont know how to fit the bloody things. ill say it again, fitted correctly for small time PVP or mission they are awsome. /Theo
Alyxa Mahan	Posted - 2007.10.02 16:21:00 - [142] Originally by: Sikiros Novaken In every mmo there is a group or class that gets ***ed on by everyone else. In the original everquests it was the Ranger. You know which class was the first with a character to hit the level cap in the original EQ? Thats right, a Ranger. Thats not entirely correct, but still a fitting analogy, though maybe not how you intended it. In the original* EQ, rangers were quite good. Sure, bows were useless, but rangers weren't. Heck, the Verant head honcho himself was playing one. The really useless class were the rogues, which had basically no job untill they were turned into prime melee damage dealers (displacing monks along the way, creating yet another balance problem...). No, the troubles for rangers started with the first released expansion, Kunark. There everyone, PCs and NPCs alike, was boosted in nearly all regards, everything went up except the rangers defensive skills. Which made most fights distinctly unpleasant for the poor rangers, especially in the light of their increased damage output, and the other two offensive melee classes having aggro evasion tools. The "situation" led to the development of the Jolt spells, and was eventually fixed, but even seven years later, jokes about dead rangers are commonplace... Also, reaching any level cap in EQ has nothing to do with ability or skills, but only with invested time. That specific ranger you mentioned was basically powerleveled 24/7 to 60 (oh yeah, it was also Kunark, not the original game that this happened) by several crazy "uber"-guild people. I think he even took off work at release. In fact, a ranger making it first was even used as an argument by the devs to counter the "rangers suck now!" crowd. But as i said, it was a fitting analogy to the current amarr problems. Much like then the rangers, and later on the monks even longer, amarr were hurt by the game developing around them. Everythings changed over the years, except the amarr weapons. Which were once wtfpwn weapons and even had to be nerfed, is now only average, but still saddled with their original "balancing" drawbacks (compare to EQs monk weight limit). Well, the wheel of time turns, and the game will develop further, lasers will be looked at eventually, and the amarr will find themselves on the top again someday. Just don't ask me how fast the wheel turns...
Yarlan Zey	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:16:00 - [143] Do you believe in wonders ? Such a boost will never come. Do you believe that devs don`t know about the problem ? They know about it pretty well, but they just don`t want to change the things. Every amarrian pilot that I know after the first year realise the meanigless of training amarr and they are starting to train another race. Thats why on the dev blog amarrian ships are less.. our pilots are flying other ships. If they are better ? then why not. My advice is to stop whining.Just start to train another race. I did it and I`m ways more happy. (This char have 10.2 mill SP in lasers And 30mill overall.) Thought that if I pump my lasers skills on its maximul they`ll work a little bit better. no way...
Kirov VIII	Posted - 2007.10.02 17:21:00 - [144] CCP & other players check this link please : Linkage You can watch quickly that amarr race is crap ! And it's not the truth because it's only the number of ships on EvE (Docked ...) not the ships really used by the players. The reality is more crap than that. Amarr race is very fine no ? CCP we wait the boost and the oomph !!!
shinsushi	Posted - 2007.10.16 22:52:00 - [145] Originally by: Yarlan Zey Do you believe in wonders ? Such a boost will never come. Do you believe that devs don`t know about the problem ? They know about it pretty well, but they just don`t want to change the things. Every amarrian pilot that I know after the first year realise the meanigless of training amarr and they are starting to train another race. Thats why on the dev blog amarrian ships are less.. our pilots are flying other ships. If they are better ? then why not. My advice is to stop whining.Just start to train another race. I did it and I`m ways more happy. (This char have 10.2 mill SP in lasers And 30mill overall.) Thought that if I pump my lasers skills on its maximul they`ll work a little bit better. no way... QFT, I should listen to your advice.

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