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Gan Ning
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Posted - 2004.02.15 16:16:00 -
[31]
This is just insane. 
Im gonna learn to fly a tempest. |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.15 16:24:00 -
[32]
Anyone else get the feeling it was a waste of 2 weeks training to get a Caldari battleship?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Asharee Intrefer
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Posted - 2004.02.15 16:42:00 -
[33]
Defender drones are a good idea. But even as me and my Thorax always are on the painful end of the missile's flight, I hope the chance of defense is much lower than 100%, just to be fair. And because I still want some challenge. 
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CrazzlY
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Posted - 2004.02.15 16:44:00 -
[34]
hi guys, just wondering...
these anti-missile drones you are talking about...
I went to Chaos today, and well... I didn't see any "new" drones, so I assume the normal heavy drones (ogre, wasp etc) are now shooting down missiles?
If they are, HOW do you order them to it?
Sorry if it's a noobie question, but I need to know 
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Ada Isdead
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Posted - 2004.02.15 17:41:00 -
[35]
I have two smartbombs on my vexor as an anti missile system, but thats only cos i can't fit defenders.
SB's are a complete pain to use (timeing and cap cost), if i had more mid slots i'd go for harnders instead and just take the damage on my shields, it would probably work out to be more efficent.
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Isonkon Serikain
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Posted - 2004.02.15 19:30:00 -
[36]
Wow, I am amazed at how many of you did not read my initial post entirely and realized that I had a dream about those... They don't exist.... 
Did you guys jsut read the title and start venting? That was great stuff, and the discussion was still good. BTW, Smartbombs suck at missile defense. I fly a rax and I can't hunt guristas cause I get my butt kicked by missiles and their ranged turrets. One or two smartbombs just can't stop constant volleys from 4 merlins and 2 blackbirds... All I am asking for is a little bit more protection, Im not asking for a nerf of caldari fighting potential, but I am glad you bring out those points...
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Pojo
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Posted - 2004.02.15 22:22:00 -
[37]
Isonkon this is an old issue, it has been brough up many times before. It tends to split people pretty much, heavy missile users see is as the end of their supreme rain. Turret users see it as at long last a real way to stop missile spam ownage. If you are the one getting spammed with missiles you know there is not real current way to stop it. If you dishing missile spam out then you happy and dont want to stop. Even be bold enough to try and pretend like they too weak, trying to get them boosted. Everyone is just trying to get changes that will favor their current setup. 
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.02.15 22:25:00 -
[38]
 Quote:
Anyone else get the feeling it was a waste of 2 weeks training to get a Caldari battleship?
*waves* after 2 weeks using/loosing them i decided to get minmatar
@ at the gunners: each missle can cost 10k isk, try to figure our how much isk you waste when you try to kill a tanked BS with only missles, and shortly before the ship is down, making a run back home because you cant warpscramble him
after 20 of such encounters your really really waste a lot of money
Wanna fly with me?
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Dukath
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Posted - 2004.02.15 22:36:00 -
[39]
What about the versatility of using missiles?
Is he using a tanked up setup against EM? no prob use other type of missiles. A missile user can pick whatever damage type he wants, a turret user doesn't have that option since his ammo has a fixed damage type.
As mentioned before missile users have FOF when they are scrambled, turret users don't. Missile users have lot less requirements, use lots less cap allowing them to use the cap for other things. Please stop staring blind on the damage per second for one testcase
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.02.15 23:17:00 -
[40]
dude, having a decent cruise missles set for each damage typ, is really really really costy and leaves you even after patch not much cargo hold for other things.
and trying out missles, great idea! 
Wanna fly with me?
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:42:00 -
[41]
I bet all of you "missiles pwn" people are not using missiles, are you?
--
2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Pojo
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:49:00 -
[42]
The only people that are crying are the peopel that missile spam and dont want to use turrets. I for one use both equally on my bs setups and rely on them during cruiser combat. There is no good antimissile system out there currently so people abuse this game weakness and spam away. 
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Luc Boye
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:53:00 -
[43]
Quote:
The only people that are crying are the peopel that missile spam and dont want to use turrets. I for one use both equally on my bs setups and rely on them during cruiser combat. There is no good antimissile system out there currently so people abuse this game weakness and spam away.
Isn't that what Raven is supposed to do anyway?
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2004.12.29 23:33:40combatMining Pollution Cloud hits you, doing 140.0 damage. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.16 02:10:00 -
[44]
Quote:
The only people that are crying are the peopel that missile spam and dont want to use turrets. I for one use both equally on my bs setups and rely on them during cruiser combat. There is no good antimissile system out there currently so people abuse this game weakness and spam away.
Pojo, sorry but you're clueless.
Do Amarr ships 'spam' lasers?
Do Minmatar ships 'spam' projectiles?
Do Gallante ships 'spam' hybrids?
Get a clue, Caldari ships are obviously missile oriented they don't 'spam' their weapons any more than any other ship 'spams' theirs.
Kestrel has 4 high slots and 4 launchers, Kestrel has 5 high slots and 5 launchers Raven has 8 high slots and 6 launchers. Sorry, what should we be using on these ships oh mightly slayer of logic?
Caldari = Missile, and supposedly according to TomB they might actually start getting ships with actual bonuses for missiles, and I can only imagine missiles will be improved because right now they are way too slow and cost way too much.
10k isk for 1 cruise missile vs 64 isk for 1 shot of projectile ammo, wow, that's balanced -- not.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
SOHAIL
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Posted - 2004.02.16 03:03:00 -
[45]
Poor us (caldari)
"We'll show them what FIREPOWER is all about" |
Pojo
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Posted - 2004.02.16 03:42:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Pojo on 16/02/2004 03:48:09
Lets get down to the real facts, caracal is a missile boat and the only other ship that can mount more then 4 launchers is the Raven. So in the entire game these are the only 2 ships that can be said to have a missile advantage as they can in theory mount 5+ launchers. Raven is flexible it can easily do 4/4 setup and be very potent. Caracal can mount a couple of turrets as well so it has some room to work with. The reality is that the only ship really depending on missiles for its life is the kestrel. I think we all know how overpowerd the kestrel is. It needs to be tuned down a bit as it can easily take down any cruiser.
So the caldari have one ship that really depends on missiles. The rest have the option to go missile heavy but are not locked into it. You are implying that Caldari are the missile kings and cant fight worth a damn without them. The fact is that they are far from being as dependant on missiles as some people make them out to be. Getting def drones is not a way to single out caldaris for the nerf bat, as we have learned other races use missiles too.
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.16 04:14:00 -
[47]
Quote:
<TomB> Caldari are underpowered in damage dealing mostly, I have been trying to focus Railguns for Caldari as a primary but it hasn't been going as well as wanted.
<TomB> Plans for Caldari for the future and balancing current Caldari ships will rather focus on missiles
Quote:
<TomB>It has come to the point where balancing hybrids between Caldari and Gallente looks pointless, also getting EW for Gallente instead of Caldari.
<TomB>I've stated that Caldari will most likely get removed bonuses on hybrids and given missile/ew bonuses instead.
Caldari are the missile kings, and no they can't fight a damn without them. All Caldari ships are atleast 50% launcher hardpoints the Moa is the only exception I believe. Most if not all Caldari ships can be rigged as 50-100% missile capabilities, aside from Minmatar how many races can say that?
Yes Minmatar can use missiles almost as much as Caldari have, but a missile bonus should be what seperates Caldari from Minmatar, right now Caldari ships are just basically Minmatar ships except worse in every regard and without a useful turret bonus.
Hopefully next patch TomB will give Caldari ships real bonuses to match their actual hardpoints, missiles.
(and hopefully address the issues with missiles as well)
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Pojo
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Posted - 2004.02.16 05:00:00 -
[48]
I completely agree that caldari needs missile bonus and better hybrid bonus, but thats not whats at stake here. We are talking about missiles and their use by all races. Having another antimissile option is not the same thing as having anitcaldari option. Caldari ships are far from the only missile users so its not about them at all. Fixing caldari ship bonuses is another topic all together.
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.16 05:09:00 -
[49]
Quote:
I completely agree that caldari needs missile bonus and better hybrid bonus, but thats not whats at stake here. We are talking about missiles and their use by all races. Having another antimissile option is not the same thing as having anitcaldari option. Caldari ships are far from the only missile users so its not about them at all. Fixing caldari ship bonuses is another topic all together.
and my point is missiles have enough countermeasures, there is no need for more.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Kalki Nibiru
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Posted - 2004.02.16 05:22:00 -
[50]
Missiles do have enough counter measures and are unfortunately way under powered at the moment. To be honest though, the only reason why people want better options for defense against missiles is the plss poor AI of the defenders. As far as missile "spamming" is concerned, as long as players cant fire missiles like Gurista's everything should be alright.
One thing I would really like to see however are torpedo's leaking a small portion of damage through the shields (if you dont want to worry about leaking damage, upgrade tac shields) cause right now missiles are extremely under-powered; rockets, standards, heavies, cruises and torps all need beefing in different areas.
Taken from the May 29th 2003 Devchat at EveGate
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<Muaddid> Q: When will sentry gun and station and similar construction pods be introduced on the market?
<Hellmar> we have various player owned entities already implemented. Sentry guns, power/shield generators, field repair mini-stations, mobile refineries. We are still working out the last tidbits of how they can be over taken, what is the penalty of having a sentry gun kill a n00b etc. and we have been a bit busy with plugging the holes that people have found.I would say that you'd start to see these items on the market in about 2-3 weeks, very expensive to begin with |
Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2004.02.16 05:50:00 -
[51]
Quote:
Quote:
The only people that are crying are the peopel that missile spam and dont want to use turrets. I for one use both equally on my bs setups and rely on them during cruiser combat. There is no good antimissile system out there currently so people abuse this game weakness and spam away.
Pojo, sorry but you're clueless.
Do Amarr ships 'spam' lasers?
Do Minmatar ships 'spam' projectiles?
Do Gallante ships 'spam' hybrids?
Get a clue, Caldari ships are obviously missile oriented they don't 'spam' their weapons any more than any other ship 'spams' theirs.
Kestrel has 4 high slots and 4 launchers, Caracal has 5 high slots and 5 launchers Raven has 8 high slots and 6 launchers. Sorry, what should we be using on these ships oh mightly slayer of logic?
Caldari = Missile, and supposedly according to TomB they might actually start getting ships with actual bonuses for missiles, and I can only imagine missiles will be improved because right now they are way too slow and cost way too much.
10k isk for 1 cruise missile vs 64 isk for 1 shot of projectile ammo, wow, that's balanced -- not.
One of the only valid points in this whole idiodic thread. There may be a day where defender drones will work and be needed. But that day is not now... and won't be until Ship and weapon ballances are done.
PS : No training Caldari BS isn't a waist for me for one reason... Scorpion. If I was to fly a Raven as my Caldari BS... then yes I would be pretty ****ed.
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Vancent
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Posted - 2004.02.16 12:09:00 -
[52]
i run amarr cruiser omen and maller...
neither of these ships has ANY option for defenders, and as missiles are a powerful weopon used on various ships i have to run with 2 smartbombs and sacrifice weopons for it, but it keeps me alive, I use 2 small 'notos' smartbombs as they use less pgrid and cpu and do slightly more damage than normal smartbombs. with 2 smartbombs staggered i can usually destroy all missiles that are fired at me (smalls cant take a torp out tho).
If you watch your splash damage around gates and stations, and a bit of practice to get the timing right heavy missiles are made pretty useless and cruises only inflict nominal damage (nothing a shield booster and tac shield cant take care of)
I would like to see drones that target missiles as using smartbombs is not a viable option any where near stations or gates.. I have lost 2 ships from splash damage, its a pain in the ass (stop smarts from doing damage to anchored objects  )
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