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Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.16 15:50:00 -
[61]
As for loging out during a battle. It should be something to the effect that if players are attacking you while logging off then your ship is still game for x amount of time after players stop attacking you. This way you are penalized by logging off from players but not crashing when fighting NPCs. Though you would still be in trouble if you CTD during a big fleet engagement.
Although if you are in a big fleet engagement you are already taking a huge risk of losing your ship. (though the CTD would still suck)
As for logging in, simply make it so that you have no capacitor and shields when you log in. This would at least be a similar penalty to a cloaking device, (and whats the freaken difference if you're employing this tactic?)
Login camping is just lame, however people will use it more and more unless something is done about it.
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Terrapin
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:04:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Terrapin on 16/02/2004 16:14:30
(edited to clarify)
 Quote:
As for logging in, simply make it so that you have no capacitor and shields when you log in. This would at least be a similar penalty to a cloaking device, (and whats the freaken difference if you're employing this tactic?)
Like someone pointed out earlier, this would be rather annoying for someone having a CTD during a fight with an npc.
The simplest solution would be to just disable the possibility to initiate combat within 60 seconds after logging in. Only initiating combat would be restricted, returning fire should be fine.
Problem solved.
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:08:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 16/02/2004 16:12:35
Wow so many people I disagree with.
1. Loging in to a fight is nothing like waiting in the next system, well actually it's a little like but with one important difference. Let's look at an example, team A is looking for team B and sees a 3 pilots on a certain system on the map. A scout goes in and confirms that it is team B. Team a checks the map again and see that there are not a pilot in the neighboring system so they attack. Then team B's allies log on and finish team A off.
2. Making you reappear at a random position when you log off is a bad idea because I can see people log off and back on to escape fight. Now I know people log off to escape fight but usually they can't log on right away as the opponent is still there. It would propably make a very long and very boring intra system chase 
3. There was at least a 3. but I forgot what it was but I think it had something to do with what Maud dib said 
Edit: Ok about what Maud dib said then we have to realize that ccp will never make everybody happy or EVE a flawless game (and hence making everybody happy) so we have to draw the line somewhere and I think the unlucky people that ctd will just have to be that, unlucky. I can't believe people are still ctd'ing like crazy.
__________
Capacitor research |
Anna Heart
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:11:00 -
[64]
Log out/ Log on tactics **** me off more then anything.
Corps like Evol will move like 20 pilots and get confronted by a larger number and so all of them log off. They then have an alt peek on every 30 minutes or so. the moment they out number us BAM everyone of them is back on and rushing the gates. No offence but people don't pay for EVE so they can watch the lil green and red bars light up like chirstmas in vegas. I feel scanner needs reviewing so you can simply scan for everyone in system as people are abusing OOSS bookmarks. (I had a friend expermenting and he has managed to travel more then 54,000 AU from the nearst stellar object in like 45 minutes... no offence but when someone gets to 30 AU it's nearly impossable to find em let alone 54,000au.
My Realistic solution for logging out of combat. When you are engaged in a PvP situation and log off you should remain in space for no less then 10 minutes. During this time span you are unable to log on an alt. PERIOD. if no agression occurs then you only wait the usual 1 - 2 minutes.
My Realistic solution for log in ganking. would be make it so when a pilot logs on they cannot target anything for 5 minutes exception being Autotarget back. This means if someone agresses on you (in CTD during fight situation) you auto target back andare able to fight. You can also run shields ECCMs ect. ect. ect. As for the log in ganker. They get to sit there and watch you dirve by, warp away, or if you feel opertune lock them and engage ina fight since they all have 5 minutes before they may attack the swarm of 15 BSs loggin on using TS method could be penalized by not being able to all lock and attack so only pilots locked can fight how locked them and the others get to watch their exploit backfire
Evil log out stop
anyone who logs out ship is instantly impound their ships and they are then charged 1/2 their skill points in isk (or all their isk if they are short) then have to pay 55% their ship's current market value to get it released from impound. Doubt many would log from battl then (this would only be if agression occured in last 10 minutes of coarse.
Evil Log in Gank fix
When a pilot logs in and agresses within 10 minutes of log in, only exception is auto lock back on someone, And commits an act of agress or attempts to jump a gate his/her ship has a "starting up" malfuction from systems used while systems still starting the warp core of their ship goes critical and the ship exploids (not self destruct modules would still be dropped) This would punish the (says something inapropriate)
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:17:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Quote:
As for logging in, simply make it so that you have no capacitor and shields when you log in. This would at least be a similar penalty to a cloaking device, (and whats the freaken difference if you're employing this tactic?)
Like someone pointed out earlier, this would be rather annoying for someone having a CTD during a fight with an npc.
The simplest solution would be to just disable the possibility to initiate combat within 60 seconds after logging in. Only initiating combat would be restricted, returning fire should be fine.
Problem solved.
It might be annoying if you CTD with NPCs around you, and you log back in with no shields and no cap. But you should still be able to get away to repair, unless of course you were almost dead when you CTD then you would of probably died anyhow.
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Terrapin
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:27:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Terrapin on 16/02/2004 16:29:05
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for logging in, simply make it so that you have no capacitor and shields when you log in. This would at least be a similar penalty to a cloaking device, (and whats the freaken difference if you're employing this tactic?)
Like someone pointed out earlier, this would be rather annoying for someone having a CTD during a fight with an npc.
The simplest solution would be to just disable the possibility to initiate combat within 60 seconds after logging in. Only initiating combat would be restricted, returning fire should be fine.
Problem solved.
It might be annoying if you CTD with NPCs around you, and you log back in with no shields and no cap. But you should still be able to get away to repair, unless of course you were almost dead when you CTD then you would of probably died anyhow.
The point is, that if I log in and find someone (pc or npc) firing on my ship I'd better bloody well have the option to fire back.
The other way around; being able to exploit out-of-game communication to 'login ambush' someone should be squished.
Just block the possibility to initiate combat within 60 seconds after logging in, and presto, no more problem.
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Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2004.02.16 17:34:00 -
[67]
TS, Ventrillo, and the like are good. Having mechanics to exploit log in is definately bad. PvP in EVE has basically turned into something akin to Counter-Strike h@x with this crap in the game. When I go to 0.0 I have to watch my ass double time for people like this. This also seeds doubt about going places because you can expect this to be used by unethical players ( hey if the shoe fits... wear it... nothing personal. )
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TerminusX
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Posted - 2004.02.16 17:49:00 -
[68]
Now come on. Anyone who says thats it's 'ok' to appear out of nowhere when your buddies use game voice to gank you is just a player who has no ethics or care for proper game play. I have no problem with pirates camping gates (that's what pirates do) but this tactic is ridiculous. And unfortunately, there are ethical and non-ethical pirates out there (more of the later I fear). So, randomize the log in location...its the only way to do it...it's not perfect but it will work. Another option is lost shields and capacity for 30 seconds or so while cloaked...so either you wait....or you move at your own risk until they charge up. Something has to be done about this exploit is game mechanics.
Divine Retribution - My name is TerminusX, prepare to die. |
wordy
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Posted - 2004.02.16 17:51:00 -
[69]
Edited by: wordy on 16/02/2004 17:56:57
Quote:
My Realistic solution for log in ganking. would be make it so when a pilot logs on they cannot target anything for 5 minutes exception being Autotarget back. This means if someone agresses on you (in CTD during fight situation) you auto target back andare able to fight. You can also run shields ECCMs ect. ect. ect. As for the log in ganker. They get to sit there and watch you dirve by, warp away, or if you feel opertune lock them and engage ina fight since they all have 5 minutes before they may attack the swarm of 15 BSs loggin on using TS method could be penalized by not being able to all lock and attack so only pilots locked can fight how locked them and the others get to watch their exploit backfire
I think this would be a good idea to be honest, implimenting an idea like this would send out a clear message to the cheaters that CCP will not tolerate pathetic tactics like log in ganking. We shouldn't get anyone moaning about this idea either, as using log in ganking should be considered an exploit. The ppl who do moan about could be conisdered exploiters and appropritate action could be taken against them
After all the vast magority of us adhere to the rules, and tactics like this just ruin it for everyone not willing to play in such sad way
"Hey, I am cool. My mum said so!" - Milhouse Van Houten
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:39:00 -
[70]
How about a timer that only allows a certain amount of ships in a certain radius to become active in a certain period of time.
OR
Logging in, freezing your ship, and making you appear in local a good 20 - 30 seconds before you can decloak and move off.
It's not a tactic, it's gh3y, and unsportsmanlike, and I would hope that would be reason enough not to do it. we're not a bunch of kids.
I bet those same people would nick money out of the bank whilst playing monopoly, when others aren't looking, and then say 'but you could do it too'
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Riffix
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:44:00 -
[71]
I like Fester's log in with no cap idea. However, logging in without shields would be a little excessive because that is a defensive function and what we are trying to eliminate here is cheap offensive exploits.
I don't think this would be a real problem for CTD people when in big trouble because unless you wait the time it takes for your ship to completely vanish from the system, when you log back in your ship is in the same state as when you left it(you hope).
The other elegant idea is the one that says that you can only target back after logging if for x minutes or seconds. Now that I think about it that might be the best one actually.
I am also with the crowd that likes the idea of your ship never vanishing from the galaxy and just going into a powerdown mode with passive sig cloak(which would explain why people wouldn't be able to find with a scanner even though they can find other masses like roids but if they happen to run into it they will see it) however, I have to agree with skillz that it would kill eve if dropped into the current system.
Anything that involves stations really isn't practical because some people LIVE in places where stations are scarce. The best way would be to give people the ability to just pick a direction and warp off that way till they stop the warp. However, I have a feeling that this is harder to do and why it isn't possible yet.
"Lead, follow, or get the #@$@#$ out of the way" |
Zenobia
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:49:00 -
[72]
Quote:
The difference is, they can make use of this in low sec empire space more easily (and is currently being done by DNA corp). They wait until a player is in warp toward a gate (and thus is unable to cancel warp), then via TS communications with the scout, they all log back in (out of sentry range), and are able to snipe at the ship. While this goes on anyways, what they are doing is tricking the map's "players in space" feature as well as the local player listing, so they can get players to warp to the gate thinking it's empty.
Not true. We have never logged out at a gate camp in an attempt to lure people into the system. Please get your facts straight.
-- Zen
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Deadzone
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:51:00 -
[73]
This topic has been going on for a bit.....Would really like a response from CCP on the matter. We all know Devs have read the thread.
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:55:00 -
[74]
Quote:
It's not a tactic, it's gh3y, and unsportsmanlike, and I would hope that would be reason enough not to do it. we're not a bunch of kids.
Exactly my opinion.
And I didn't expect it from the Bladerunners corp 
 |
Lowen Phat
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Posted - 2004.02.16 20:45:00 -
[75]
Quote:
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 00:31:57
I agree. Logging into space via TS coordination to gank ships is poor form.
Also I want a fix to alt logging to avoid confrontations. I was in a vigil with warp/web/mwd and captured an indy and demanded a toll. He logged off and onto on alt so fast that his ship was gone from space in under 10 seconds, before my corpmates could finish targeting him to destroy once we saw him leave local.
Or you could stop ripping people off.
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Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.02.16 20:57:00 -
[76]
Quote:
They should make it so ppl can't log off in space...i believe they had that during beta testing.
that would be hard to force.
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
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TauTut
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Posted - 2004.02.16 21:21:00 -
[77]
Edited by: TauTut on 16/02/2004 21:24:30
Quote:
Edited by: LargeNuts on 16/02/2004 00:04:33
This is simply the most idiotic ability to exploit in any game in history, it is ruining the game, ruining Fleet Tactics, ruining the ability for Corps to protect thier space.
Fix this CCP. Being in a fight at a gate after a well thought out and scouted attack only to be ganked by 10 BS out of nowhere is completely stupid. At least put people way out at the edge of the systems they are in when logging of, or make a no-fighting time of 3 minutes after logging in. This would discourage people from logging in at the gate in mid battle.
The map is WORTHLESS because tje "Number of Pilots in Space" is completely innacurate. Why not add "Logged off players in space"? Until you do, the map is a joke.
I am completely disgusted with this.
They should make it the same as powering up from cloak. When you log on .. your cap has to recharge .. that would put a new spin on it.
-TT
Background
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KrapYl
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Posted - 2004.02.16 21:38:00 -
[78]
someone mentioned 0 shield & 0 CAP... 0 shield might be a little hard, maybe just the 0 CAP 25% shield ?
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.16 22:18:00 -
[79]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 16/02/2004 22:19:10
The server saves your logoff position.
They could make it so your scanner detects these logoff positions as ships, which means that youŠll have to dock somewhere if you donŠt want people to be waiting for you when you log back on.
Might help a bit against those cowards who log off once they realise they're toast if they donŠt, too.
Mai's Idealog |
Reiisha
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Posted - 2004.02.16 22:31:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Handicap the log-in campers as if they had just disengaged a cloaking device.
The original idea in more detail
Uhm, good idea?
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
Jake Pliskin
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Posted - 2004.02.16 22:37:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Jake Pliskin on 16/02/2004 22:42:50
when you get to hear of lame tactics like this, i can't help wondering if there is a future with programming AI bots.
Bots can be programmed so they don't cheat, and they don't whine half as much, when they get killed 
But on the minus side - humans are a lot more unpredictable
PS - there are some really good ideas being suggested in this thread. Hope someone at CCP is listening in |
jamesw
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Posted - 2004.02.16 22:40:00 -
[82]
Has anybody petitioned and/or had a response from CCP about this?
I would be interested to know what their policy is towards this tactic.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Siris
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Posted - 2004.02.16 23:01:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Siris on 16/02/2004 23:01:56
Quote:
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 00:31:57
I agree. Logging into space via TS coordination to gank ships is poor form.
Also I want a fix to alt logging to avoid confrontations. I was in a vigil with warp/web/mwd and captured an indy and demanded a toll. He logged off and onto on alt so fast that his ship was gone from space in under 10 seconds, before my corpmates could finish targeting him to destroy once we saw him leave local.
What about needlessly shooting at jumpgates for the sole purpose of generating lag?
Fix your own stuff before shouting at anyone else.
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.17 11:22:00 -
[84]
Its pathetic.
Its cheating and CCP do not make it a bannable offense? Its a joke.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.17 11:29:00 -
[85]
Quote:
Yeah. But that can still be accomplished by waiting in the neighboring system and jumping in when needed..
If they are in the next system along, you can see their number son the map.
If like most good corps, when travelling you always have a scout out in front, he will see them.
Logging on at any point in a coordinated fashion, just to get kills, is **** poor, and only the lowest of the low would bother with this.
KIA-Rs current enemies, are reported to have begun to use this tactic, I am ashamed for them, but never will KIA-R whilst I am in the corp, get involved in such low ass cheating ****e as this, not even if it means we lose a battle time and time again.
Honour isnt given, its earnt.
CCP: you can easily check a report of the use of this exploit for its validity, you should make it a bannable offense IMMEDIATELY, and take exploit reports of this manner very seriously. How can you expect your game to be taken seriously as the most involved online RPG to date, when you allow such OOC OOG tactics.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Junko Willsso
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:21:00 -
[86]
Totally agree. Its an exploit, its cheating and should be bannable. Anyone who does it should be ashamed.
To think that CCP introduced the cloak in to help stop ganking at JIP - they have just moved the problem to JOP's !
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:27:00 -
[87]
KIAEddZ, if you want to beat Evolution you will have to use the same dirty tricks they use.
They love using those login traps, and they do it quite often, get used to it.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
JigJaw
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:28:00 -
[88]
Edited by: JigJaw on 17/02/2004 13:37:38
in war and pirating all tactics are ok! why should ccp change this then some aliances could also get like alot of noob frigates to log out at gate and stay logged LOL theres more danger in eliminating that thing than there is to let it stay and jim so does m00 huh ?!? yes u do :) i know for a fact that you guys have used this one too so dont blame evol :) all use it get ower it and all start using ts and travel in pairrs ofr find ways to get out... its posible u know....
My hatred can only grow. |
Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:36:00 -
[89]
this would be much simpler if they just made ships persistent - ie, when you log, they stay exactly where you left them - doing exactly what you left them doing.
ie - turn your shield boosters on before you leave, and hope you dont run out of cap overnight.
-----
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:46:00 -
[90]
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 17/02/2004 13:47:30
Quote:
KIAEddZ, if you want to beat Evolution you will have to use the same dirty tricks they use.
They love using those login traps, and they do it quite often, get used to it.
Not a chance in hell m8. We value honour above everything else. We will beat them, the straight up way, at the end of the day, KIA-Rs reputation, is far more important than a few miserly Battleships. Evol can act as they want, the only thing it does, is further aid us in our resolution to win this war.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
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