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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.15 23:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: LargeNuts on 16/02/2004 00:04:33
This is simply the most idiotic ability to exploit in any game in history, it is ruining the game, ruining Fleet Tactics, ruining the ability for Corps to protect thier space.
Fix this CCP. Being in a fight at a gate after a well thought out and scouted attack only to be ganked by 10 BS out of nowhere is completely stupid. At least put people way out at the edge of the systems they are in when logging of, or make a no-fighting time of 3 minutes after logging in. This would discourage people from logging in at the gate in mid battle.
The map is WORTHLESS because tje "Number of Pilots in Space" is completely innacurate. Why not add "Logged off players in space"? Until you do, the map is a joke.
I am completely disgusted with this.
Adjusted topic from all caps...
- Lomithrandra
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:06:00 -
[2]
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Shoopy
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:08:00 -
[3]
They should make it so ppl can't log off in space...i believe they had that during beta testing.
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:11:00 -
[4]
just creating a true random warp in points would fix this
just three random numerical numbers to reprisent x y and z if the grid
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:13:00 -
[5]
Yeah, but if you put in random warp-ins all the gate campers would complain.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
jamesw
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: jamesw on 16/02/2004 00:20:07
LargeNuts,
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Something needs to be done to counter the ability to do this.
Some members of my corp fell victim to a similar tactic over the weekend. We were travelling as a small fleet and had 6 or 7 BS appear beside us (while we were approaching a gate), despite careful scouting and the map showing no pilots nearby.
Personally I can deal with people *camping* a gate and ganking people. I don't think it's a particularly nice thing to do, but the game mechanics allow for it and such.
Logging out at a gate (or even elsewhere in system) takes this to a *completely* new level.
Perhaps when logging in (in space), you appear in local and the map while your ship remains cloaked and unusable for 3 minutes. This would give players long enough to realise a whole bunch of people appearing in local and give them time to clear out of the system.
This system would not disadvantage players who CTD in combat because their ship is cloaked so they are not at risk of attack.
From an RP perspective, your ships computer systems are booting up, its cap recharging and shields/engines coming back online etc.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
 Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:21:00 -
[7]
I have nothing against gate camping. It is necessary. But logged off gate camping waiting for your buddy on TS to tell you when to log in and gank someone with him is for women. Cough..(Evol)...
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Homo Ergaster
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:28:00 -
[8]
PA is going to whine no matter what we do.
i got called a cheater the other night cus i used 2 sensor dampeners.
quit crying, and adapt. |
Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 00:31:57
I agree. Logging into space via TS coordination to gank ships is poor form.
Also I want a fix to alt logging to avoid confrontations. I was in a vigil with warp/web/mwd and captured an indy and demanded a toll. He logged off and onto on alt so fast that his ship was gone from space in under 10 seconds, before my corpmates could finish targeting him to destroy once we saw him leave local.
______________
The Kerrigan Chronicles |
jamesw
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:34:00 -
[10]
Sara,
A Simple fix for that would be to not allow people to log their alts on until they have waited the full 60 seconds (or whatever it is) for their main character to disappear.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Darkrydar
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:47:00 -
[11]
Quote:
just creating a true random warp in points would fix this
just three random numerical numbers to reprisent x y and z if the grid
No offens, but its obvious where you play Eve. In Empire space. If I was in an indy in 0.0, I wouldnt want a random JIP to be in front of 3 NPC battleships.
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SYCO
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:01:00 -
[12]
sounds rather ingenius 
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:14:00 -
[13]
Quote:
No offens, but its obvious where you play Eve. In Empire space. If I was in an indy in 0.0, I wouldnt want a random JIP to be in front of 3 NPC battleships.
The probability of that would be fantastically small. Consider the volume of a solarsystem. Now consider the TINY TINY volume you would need to warp into to be within kill range of an NPC spawn.
A 20au*20au*5au block is 2000au3 in size. Note that 1au3 is a staggering 3,375,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic kilometres (roughly) in size).
Now, for you to warp within kill range of a battleship, you would need to appear within a sphere centred around the battleship of radius 50km. Let's just take a cube for simplicity, 100km on a side. Its volume is 1,000,000km3. Compare that volume to the volume for ONE au, and you will see if you randomly selected a point inside EVEN ONE CUBIC AU, the chance of it falling inside the kill range of a battleship randomly placed inside that cube is staggeringly tiny.
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SLIM
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:24:00 -
[14]
Darkwolf: nicely put.
Re: TS Login. It's using out of game mechanics to give you an advantage, I don't think ccp should stand for it. That random spot login idea is a pretty good one. The only problem I can see is it lets someone find a deepspace bookmark really easily (outside scanner range of any 'warp to'-able objects). Not even someone who could warp to anything on the scanner could find them.
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Centauri
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:26:00 -
[15]
I see JamesW, from my corp already responded. He pretty much hit the nail on the head.
We're not a huge corp by any means, but we have 25 active members, the majority of which are EVE-veterans who definitely know what they're doing.
We were heading to A2-V7 or some system there abouts, near CFS space. We're quite disciplined, and proceeded with all caution only to have EIGHT tier 2 battleships log on simultaneously - the majority rigged for exceptionally close-range combat (hello, Megathrons) and suffice to say, we had our arses handed to ourselves on a silver platter.
Like James, I have no problem with gate-gankers. I think it's rather low, underhanded, and dishonourable - but hey, pirates are scum by nature. But at least that's pirating. This whole log-on-gank is just plain ridiculous and certainly violates the spirit of the game at the least, and is an exploit at its worst.
Anyone else care to comment? Perhaps someone who can bloody well stop these bastards? 
Centauri,
Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control |
Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:35:00 -
[16]
Can't log off in space is pointless. You can just pull the pull on the eve program itself.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Prophecy
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:38:00 -
[17]
Handicap the log-in campers as if they had just disengaged a cloaking device.
The original idea in more detail
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Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 01:43:37
IMO, when you LOG OUT, your ship should stay visable for a set time (unaffected by alts logging in) of perhaps 1 minute or 2; but you don't just hold position--a sort of autopilot engages to make you travel in just one direction at IMPULSE speed which continues after your ship has disappeared from space. Your ship would also display 'derelict' in space, but your ship name still appear in the scanner. This would allow a pilot who CTD'd or logged off to slowly get out of the battle area, or move from a gank spot. At impulse speed, there's no way your ship will drift so far away that you can't just warp back to your spot.
Anyone see any problems with this?
EDIT: I also see that in a battle where a CTD occurs, and under the above suggestions, pilots of one side might choose to unlock the derelict ships so they can focus fire on someone that is active in the fight. Good imo if you're all shooting a tanked ship and then it disappears from space, you've lost all that time you could have focused on another target.
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The Kerrigan Chronicles |
scouting
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Posted - 2004.02.16 02:02:00 -
[19]
using the ts logon is a very lame tactic..
its abit like using flyby mode and ts in fps, which was always disabled in clan wars and most public servers because of its abuse..
not sure how ccp can fix this problem tho
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Last nights patch, was, without doubt, the worst ever. Rest assured that I was on the forum within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.16 02:34:00 -
[20]
heh it's a lame tactic and it works, never assume someone is 'alone' =]
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2004.02.16 02:54:00 -
[21]
I don't know if it's related, but some days ago I self destructed an apoc.
I was stupid enough to travel through .4 space without checking the map, simply because I never went through a blockade in that same spot before. Mea culpa. But (there is always a but hehe) hey, I was locked before I even fully uncloaked.
I don't have to say that before starting accelerating with my 2 MWDs I was already scrambled, webbied and jammed.
Oh well, it happens
_______________________________________________
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Stettin Alagon
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Posted - 2004.02.16 03:45:00 -
[22]
I am going to have to agree with most others on this topic. CCP needs to work on a method to fix this "exploit". I like the idea about adding an option in the map "pilots logged off in system" and a couple of other ideas. I have been podded more times by people using this "logging on and kill" exploit than being killed by gate campers.
Don't get me wrong i think gate camping is lame but is as someone said "within the mechanics of the game" and i think fine for spineless pirates in eve. But the "logg on and kill" is an obvious exploit that uses mechanics outside the game i.e. Teamspeak or Ventrilo and needs to be eliminated, In my humble opinion. . .
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Viqer Fell
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Posted - 2004.02.16 04:09:00 -
[23]
It is a pitiful player that uses this whether it works or no.
Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio? |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2004.02.16 04:30:00 -
[24]
And precisely how DO you work on a method to combat out of game coordination? I mean I'm not supportive of the "tactic" at all, but what's CCP supposed to do about it? Cripple Teamspeak when the game loads? Because how is this ANY different than waiting on the other side of a gate for someone, and having a spy tell them all to jump in whenever some poor bastard warps in range of a strike?
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.16 04:35:00 -
[25]
Quote:
And precisely how DO you work on a method to combat out of game coordination? I mean I'm not supportive of the "tactic" at all, but what's CCP supposed to do about it?
They're supposed to drop you 150km from your logoff-position when you log in. They can do it, they will do it... as soon as people start whining the crap out of them.
Mai's Idealog |
Sequin
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Posted - 2004.02.16 05:08:00 -
[26]
In early, early beta/alpha, the game worked where if you logged off, your ship stayed where it was. No disappearing. Then, they moved it very temporarily to a system where when you logged, your ship warped to a random spot. Then they made it this way, I really don't know why except to save on server space? Honestly, they touted the fact that ships won't disappear while inspace, and then never delivered.
^A Raem Civre Original
EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original.
[i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything
Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork!
b]
We are evil exploiters! |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:20:00 -
[27]
When I first bought the game I was of the impression that if you loged out while in space then your ship would be floating there like a derelict.
This ment that the first coupple of times I went out to 0.0 space I wasted alot of time and risked alot by flying back to the closest station each time I was to exit the game.
I did not however take long to relize that your ship disapered when you logged and from then it became alot easier to hunt rats in the rim.
Im both sad and relived it turned out that it worked this way, sad as I would have prefered for the ship to constantly remain in space but at the same time relived as I would no longer have to spend time flying 20+ systems back to stations everytime I wanted to hunt som big rats.
My guess is that you disapere from space when you log off on account of the fact that the majority of systems are a long way from a station and that you cant protect your ship from hunters if you are offline.
All in all I think it would have been alot better if we were allowed to warp to nowhere but that ships remained in spacewhen we log.
As for the lame people who cloak their ships with the log off and wait tactics, why not just make it so that when you log on in space your shields and cap are 0 and thus have to recharge.
CTD is not a problem as there is a log out timer that would keep track of the level of shields and cap if you just have a quick crash.
As for coming back in after 2+min after a CTD, you take your chances.
Another way could be to have ships belonging to people who log off (be it CTD or normal) warp to a randomly determined planet or moon (POI's could be easily excluded from the list) and have the ship disapere there.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:22:00 -
[28]
what ccp can do is make eve to check for programs that is running on the computer, if = TS then END EVE! :p
"We brake for nobody"
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:35:00 -
[29]
I doubt it's a TS thing.. Like why would people be sitting on TS, sitting around waiting for their buddy to tell them to log in? Dunno.. And if you ban TS, might aswell ban all chat channels while your at it.
My guess is that most of the logged off campers.. Alot are probably alt accounts for the guys camping.
But what's the difference.. Would it be equally lame if the gate campers had buddies in the next system waiting to jump in and gank you? There's really no difference.. To you it would look like the guy just logged on when he decloaked anyways. But maybe he was just camping on the other end of the stargate in the neighboring system and then he popped in to help his buddy..
So basically what i'm saying is this. Calling for reinforcements is not a lame or even cheesy tactic. It's just as common as the weapons used in battles.
But I do think it's kind of cheesy having your alt accounts there to back you up like that. But having to pay out 100 million to replace your ship if you lose it in battle isn't that neeto neither.
Oh well, talking too much.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Shannon Foraker
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:47:00 -
[30]
All CCP should do is make the players log in a distance from where you logged out.... The longer you stay logged out the further the distance should be... this would simulate your ship drifting off station.
It would mean that the ambushers would have to keep logging in to move their ships back to the ambush point or stay logged in to be positive of having the forces available.
I doubt that would be a hard fix and it would fit in with roleplaying too and stop the complaints of this "free, no penalty cloak".
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Shannon Foraker
Tactical Operations |
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