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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.15 23:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: LargeNuts on 16/02/2004 00:04:33
This is simply the most idiotic ability to exploit in any game in history, it is ruining the game, ruining Fleet Tactics, ruining the ability for Corps to protect thier space.
Fix this CCP. Being in a fight at a gate after a well thought out and scouted attack only to be ganked by 10 BS out of nowhere is completely stupid. At least put people way out at the edge of the systems they are in when logging of, or make a no-fighting time of 3 minutes after logging in. This would discourage people from logging in at the gate in mid battle.
The map is WORTHLESS because tje "Number of Pilots in Space" is completely innacurate. Why not add "Logged off players in space"? Until you do, the map is a joke.
I am completely disgusted with this.
Adjusted topic from all caps...
- Lomithrandra
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:06:00 -
[2]
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Shoopy
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:08:00 -
[3]
They should make it so ppl can't log off in space...i believe they had that during beta testing.
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:11:00 -
[4]
just creating a true random warp in points would fix this
just three random numerical numbers to reprisent x y and z if the grid
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Winterblink
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:13:00 -
[5]
Yeah, but if you put in random warp-ins all the gate campers would complain.
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
jamesw
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:18:00 -
[6]
Edited by: jamesw on 16/02/2004 00:20:07
LargeNuts,
I wholeheartedly agree with you. Something needs to be done to counter the ability to do this.
Some members of my corp fell victim to a similar tactic over the weekend. We were travelling as a small fleet and had 6 or 7 BS appear beside us (while we were approaching a gate), despite careful scouting and the map showing no pilots nearby.
Personally I can deal with people *camping* a gate and ganking people. I don't think it's a particularly nice thing to do, but the game mechanics allow for it and such.
Logging out at a gate (or even elsewhere in system) takes this to a *completely* new level.
Perhaps when logging in (in space), you appear in local and the map while your ship remains cloaked and unusable for 3 minutes. This would give players long enough to realise a whole bunch of people appearing in local and give them time to clear out of the system.
This system would not disadvantage players who CTD in combat because their ship is cloaked so they are not at risk of attack.
From an RP perspective, your ships computer systems are booting up, its cap recharging and shields/engines coming back online etc.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
 Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:21:00 -
[7]
I have nothing against gate camping. It is necessary. But logged off gate camping waiting for your buddy on TS to tell you when to log in and gank someone with him is for women. Cough..(Evol)...
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Homo Ergaster
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:28:00 -
[8]
PA is going to whine no matter what we do.
i got called a cheater the other night cus i used 2 sensor dampeners.
quit crying, and adapt. |
Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:30:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 00:31:57
I agree. Logging into space via TS coordination to gank ships is poor form.
Also I want a fix to alt logging to avoid confrontations. I was in a vigil with warp/web/mwd and captured an indy and demanded a toll. He logged off and onto on alt so fast that his ship was gone from space in under 10 seconds, before my corpmates could finish targeting him to destroy once we saw him leave local.
______________
The Kerrigan Chronicles |
jamesw
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:34:00 -
[10]
Sara,
A Simple fix for that would be to not allow people to log their alts on until they have waited the full 60 seconds (or whatever it is) for their main character to disappear.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Darkrydar
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Posted - 2004.02.16 00:47:00 -
[11]
Quote:
just creating a true random warp in points would fix this
just three random numerical numbers to reprisent x y and z if the grid
No offens, but its obvious where you play Eve. In Empire space. If I was in an indy in 0.0, I wouldnt want a random JIP to be in front of 3 NPC battleships.
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SYCO
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:01:00 -
[12]
sounds rather ingenius 
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Darkwolf
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:14:00 -
[13]
Quote:
No offens, but its obvious where you play Eve. In Empire space. If I was in an indy in 0.0, I wouldnt want a random JIP to be in front of 3 NPC battleships.
The probability of that would be fantastically small. Consider the volume of a solarsystem. Now consider the TINY TINY volume you would need to warp into to be within kill range of an NPC spawn.
A 20au*20au*5au block is 2000au3 in size. Note that 1au3 is a staggering 3,375,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 cubic kilometres (roughly) in size).
Now, for you to warp within kill range of a battleship, you would need to appear within a sphere centred around the battleship of radius 50km. Let's just take a cube for simplicity, 100km on a side. Its volume is 1,000,000km3. Compare that volume to the volume for ONE au, and you will see if you randomly selected a point inside EVEN ONE CUBIC AU, the chance of it falling inside the kill range of a battleship randomly placed inside that cube is staggeringly tiny.
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SLIM
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:24:00 -
[14]
Darkwolf: nicely put.
Re: TS Login. It's using out of game mechanics to give you an advantage, I don't think ccp should stand for it. That random spot login idea is a pretty good one. The only problem I can see is it lets someone find a deepspace bookmark really easily (outside scanner range of any 'warp to'-able objects). Not even someone who could warp to anything on the scanner could find them.
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Centauri
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:26:00 -
[15]
I see JamesW, from my corp already responded. He pretty much hit the nail on the head.
We're not a huge corp by any means, but we have 25 active members, the majority of which are EVE-veterans who definitely know what they're doing.
We were heading to A2-V7 or some system there abouts, near CFS space. We're quite disciplined, and proceeded with all caution only to have EIGHT tier 2 battleships log on simultaneously - the majority rigged for exceptionally close-range combat (hello, Megathrons) and suffice to say, we had our arses handed to ourselves on a silver platter.
Like James, I have no problem with gate-gankers. I think it's rather low, underhanded, and dishonourable - but hey, pirates are scum by nature. But at least that's pirating. This whole log-on-gank is just plain ridiculous and certainly violates the spirit of the game at the least, and is an exploit at its worst.
Anyone else care to comment? Perhaps someone who can bloody well stop these bastards? 
Centauri,
Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control |
Skillz
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:35:00 -
[16]
Can't log off in space is pointless. You can just pull the pull on the eve program itself.
Keep on flaming, lamers.
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Prophecy
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:38:00 -
[17]
Handicap the log-in campers as if they had just disengaged a cloaking device.
The original idea in more detail
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Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2004.02.16 01:39:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 01:43:37
IMO, when you LOG OUT, your ship should stay visable for a set time (unaffected by alts logging in) of perhaps 1 minute or 2; but you don't just hold position--a sort of autopilot engages to make you travel in just one direction at IMPULSE speed which continues after your ship has disappeared from space. Your ship would also display 'derelict' in space, but your ship name still appear in the scanner. This would allow a pilot who CTD'd or logged off to slowly get out of the battle area, or move from a gank spot. At impulse speed, there's no way your ship will drift so far away that you can't just warp back to your spot.
Anyone see any problems with this?
EDIT: I also see that in a battle where a CTD occurs, and under the above suggestions, pilots of one side might choose to unlock the derelict ships so they can focus fire on someone that is active in the fight. Good imo if you're all shooting a tanked ship and then it disappears from space, you've lost all that time you could have focused on another target.
______________
The Kerrigan Chronicles |
scouting
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Posted - 2004.02.16 02:02:00 -
[19]
using the ts logon is a very lame tactic..
its abit like using flyby mode and ts in fps, which was always disabled in clan wars and most public servers because of its abuse..
not sure how ccp can fix this problem tho
---------------------------------------
Last nights patch, was, without doubt, the worst ever. Rest assured that I was on the forum within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world. |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.16 02:34:00 -
[20]
heh it's a lame tactic and it works, never assume someone is 'alone' =]
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
StealthNet
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Posted - 2004.02.16 02:54:00 -
[21]
I don't know if it's related, but some days ago I self destructed an apoc.
I was stupid enough to travel through .4 space without checking the map, simply because I never went through a blockade in that same spot before. Mea culpa. But (there is always a but hehe) hey, I was locked before I even fully uncloaked.
I don't have to say that before starting accelerating with my 2 MWDs I was already scrambled, webbied and jammed.
Oh well, it happens
_______________________________________________
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Stettin Alagon
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Posted - 2004.02.16 03:45:00 -
[22]
I am going to have to agree with most others on this topic. CCP needs to work on a method to fix this "exploit". I like the idea about adding an option in the map "pilots logged off in system" and a couple of other ideas. I have been podded more times by people using this "logging on and kill" exploit than being killed by gate campers.
Don't get me wrong i think gate camping is lame but is as someone said "within the mechanics of the game" and i think fine for spineless pirates in eve. But the "logg on and kill" is an obvious exploit that uses mechanics outside the game i.e. Teamspeak or Ventrilo and needs to be eliminated, In my humble opinion. . .
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Viqer Fell
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Posted - 2004.02.16 04:09:00 -
[23]
It is a pitiful player that uses this whether it works or no.
Ok, so what the hell is this Golden Ratio? |
Winterblink
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Posted - 2004.02.16 04:30:00 -
[24]
And precisely how DO you work on a method to combat out of game coordination? I mean I'm not supportive of the "tactic" at all, but what's CCP supposed to do about it? Cripple Teamspeak when the game loads? Because how is this ANY different than waiting on the other side of a gate for someone, and having a spy tell them all to jump in whenever some poor bastard warps in range of a strike?
___winterblink/warp_drive_active/eve_nature_vraie// |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.16 04:35:00 -
[25]
Quote:
And precisely how DO you work on a method to combat out of game coordination? I mean I'm not supportive of the "tactic" at all, but what's CCP supposed to do about it?
They're supposed to drop you 150km from your logoff-position when you log in. They can do it, they will do it... as soon as people start whining the crap out of them.
Mai's Idealog |
Sequin
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Posted - 2004.02.16 05:08:00 -
[26]
In early, early beta/alpha, the game worked where if you logged off, your ship stayed where it was. No disappearing. Then, they moved it very temporarily to a system where when you logged, your ship warped to a random spot. Then they made it this way, I really don't know why except to save on server space? Honestly, they touted the fact that ships won't disappear while inspace, and then never delivered.
^A Raem Civre Original
EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original.
[i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything
Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork!
b]
We are evil exploiters! |
Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:20:00 -
[27]
When I first bought the game I was of the impression that if you loged out while in space then your ship would be floating there like a derelict.
This ment that the first coupple of times I went out to 0.0 space I wasted alot of time and risked alot by flying back to the closest station each time I was to exit the game.
I did not however take long to relize that your ship disapered when you logged and from then it became alot easier to hunt rats in the rim.
Im both sad and relived it turned out that it worked this way, sad as I would have prefered for the ship to constantly remain in space but at the same time relived as I would no longer have to spend time flying 20+ systems back to stations everytime I wanted to hunt som big rats.
My guess is that you disapere from space when you log off on account of the fact that the majority of systems are a long way from a station and that you cant protect your ship from hunters if you are offline.
All in all I think it would have been alot better if we were allowed to warp to nowhere but that ships remained in spacewhen we log.
As for the lame people who cloak their ships with the log off and wait tactics, why not just make it so that when you log on in space your shields and cap are 0 and thus have to recharge.
CTD is not a problem as there is a log out timer that would keep track of the level of shields and cap if you just have a quick crash.
As for coming back in after 2+min after a CTD, you take your chances.
Another way could be to have ships belonging to people who log off (be it CTD or normal) warp to a randomly determined planet or moon (POI's could be easily excluded from the list) and have the ship disapere there.
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Admiral IceBlock
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:22:00 -
[28]
what ccp can do is make eve to check for programs that is running on the computer, if = TS then END EVE! :p
"We brake for nobody"
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Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:35:00 -
[29]
I doubt it's a TS thing.. Like why would people be sitting on TS, sitting around waiting for their buddy to tell them to log in? Dunno.. And if you ban TS, might aswell ban all chat channels while your at it.
My guess is that most of the logged off campers.. Alot are probably alt accounts for the guys camping.
But what's the difference.. Would it be equally lame if the gate campers had buddies in the next system waiting to jump in and gank you? There's really no difference.. To you it would look like the guy just logged on when he decloaked anyways. But maybe he was just camping on the other end of the stargate in the neighboring system and then he popped in to help his buddy..
So basically what i'm saying is this. Calling for reinforcements is not a lame or even cheesy tactic. It's just as common as the weapons used in battles.
But I do think it's kind of cheesy having your alt accounts there to back you up like that. But having to pay out 100 million to replace your ship if you lose it in battle isn't that neeto neither.
Oh well, talking too much.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Shannon Foraker
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:47:00 -
[30]
All CCP should do is make the players log in a distance from where you logged out.... The longer you stay logged out the further the distance should be... this would simulate your ship drifting off station.
It would mean that the ambushers would have to keep logging in to move their ships back to the ambush point or stay logged in to be positive of having the forces available.
I doubt that would be a hard fix and it would fit in with roleplaying too and stop the complaints of this "free, no penalty cloak".
=========================
Shannon Foraker
Tactical Operations |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.16 07:54:00 -
[31]
If you log-out in space make the decloaking take 60 seconds and you can't move or activate modules during that time - enough time for local to be populated with their names. Ample warning to anyone.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:06:00 -
[32]
Still.. then the guy will log in, warp to the stargate, and still stuffen gank your buttox.. Or better yet.. He can log off on the other side of the jumpgate, in the neighboring system.. And when he's needed. He will just log back in, jump through the stargate, decloak, and still gank yo no good, ugly, totally unprepaired for the ganken buttox.
Just messin though.
The only real advantage the insta-log-ganker thingy has is about 60 seconds of cloaked time to figure things out. But that can be done near stargates without ever logging off.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:07:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Still.. then the guy will log in, warp to the stargate, and still stuffen gank your buttox.. Or better yet.. He can log off on the other side of the jumpgate, in the neighboring system.. And when he's needed. He will just log back in, jump through the stargate, decloak, and still gank yo no good, ugly, totally unprepaired for the ganken buttox.
Just messin though.
The only real advantage the insta-log-ganker thingy has is about 60 seconds of cloaked time to figure things out. But that can be done near stargates without ever logging off.
Yes, but if you're jumping into a system the gate performs an activation which is visual and audible.
That gives you some warning, at least.
Anyway, I'm just playing Devils Advocate, as usual.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:10:00 -
[34]
yeah and what's up with the stargate doing the same event when players jump-in.. They could atleast reverse the sound and video on that. |
Dalmont Delantee
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:11:00 -
[35]
Quote:
.
But what's the difference.. Would it be equally lame if the gate campers had buddies in the next system waiting to jump in and gank you? There's really no difference.. To you it would look like the guy just logged on when he decloaked anyways. But maybe he was just camping on the other end of the stargate in the neighboring system and then he popped in to help his buddy..
So basically what i'm saying is this. Calling for reinforcements is not a lame or even cheesy tactic. It's just as common as the weapons used in battles.
But I do think it's kind of cheesy having your alt accounts there to back you up like that. But having to pay out 100 million to replace your ship if you lose it in battle isn't that neeto neither.
Oh well, talking too much.
Calling reinforcements is a great tatic, but loging on ships isn't. Thats definitely cheating. If that happened to me I'll be sending petitions ever 5 min, just like the doby song.
Take comfort in knowing that its probably some pimply faced twit, or 40 year old virgin, who gleens everytime mommy offfers to take them to needle point lessons |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:16:00 -
[36]
If this gets fixed, I want clone-jumping fixed too
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Sara Kerrigan
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:19:00 -
[37]
Quote:
But what's the difference.. Would it be equally lame if the gate campers had buddies in the next system waiting to jump in and gank you? There's really no difference.. To you it would look like the guy just logged on when he decloaked anyways. But maybe he was just camping on the other end of the stargate in the neighboring system and then he popped in to help his buddy..
The difference is, they can make use of this in low sec empire space more easily (and is currently being done by DNA corp). They wait until a player is in warp toward a gate (and thus is unable to cancel warp), then via TS communications with the scout, they all log back in (out of sentry range), and are able to snipe at the ship. While this goes on anyways, what they are doing is tricking the map's "players in space" feature as well as the local player listing, so they can get players to warp to the gate thinking it's empty.
______________
The Kerrigan Chronicles |
Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:25:00 -
[38]
Yeah. But that can still be accomplished by waiting in the neighboring system and jumping in when needed..
As far as in empire space and all that.. Make the NPC authorities smarter or add more sentry guns further out from the gate.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:30:00 -
[39]
Quote:
add more sentry guns further out from the gate.
/boggles
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Zanistar
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:32:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Zanistar on 16/02/2004 08:32:49
*cough* Zombie corp *cough*
Zan
http://upl.mine.nu/uplfolders/upload9/Zanistar.jpg |
Aelius
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:44:00 -
[41]
The easiest way for stoping this is to disable the "high slots" on the recently logged on ship. Lets say for 2 minuts. That way you can do everything except activate weapons.
What do you think?
Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station |
Lord Armagon
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Posted - 2004.02.16 08:51:00 -
[42]
If only CCP would make this game so that there was other places to pvp then around gates.
I meen you fly several 1000 AU's and you only have a diameter of 50km to fight at...
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Astrid Tron
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Posted - 2004.02.16 09:12:00 -
[43]
Making it possible to log in and suddenly appear ready for action in the midst of a battle, is a stupid mistake in the game design. It is hard to believe that this has not been changed yet.
Making it so as people logging on suffer the same effects as people using Cloaking might help, as would a no-fighting period. Perhaps another idea would be to let people logging on appear at a random planet in the system, no matter where in the system they logged of.
Perhaps what is needed is a combination of the above. But somtething should be done, other than removing an extensive use of CAPS LOCK from the post of a rightfully furious pilot.
---------------------------------------------
When you have to kill a man, it takes nothing to be polite |
jamesw
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Posted - 2004.02.16 09:35:00 -
[44]
RE: the argument that logging in by a stargate is the same as jumping in through the stargate...
This is definately NOT the case, as those of us who use the "pilots in system" map will know. If I am travelling through an area where I think there might be pirate campers, I am always monitoring how many pilots there are 2 or 3 systems ahead of me. If there is a group of 6 pilots about to jump into the system I am in, I will know because I will have seen a big yellow dot in the next system from me.
If they log in beside me, I have no way of knowing they are coming, and is *definately* not the same as having them approach from a neighboring system.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Sassinak
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Posted - 2004.02.16 09:49:00 -
[45]
Quote:
PA is going to whine no matter what we do.
i got called a cheater the other night cus i used 2 sensor dampeners.
quit crying, and adapt.
OMG.. SPLOIT!!!!!
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Iluyen
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Posted - 2004.02.16 09:52:00 -
[46]
Quote:
I have nothing against gate camping. It is necessary. But logged off gate camping waiting for your buddy on TS to tell you when to log in and gank someone with him is for women. Cough..(Evol)...
How dare you accuse EVOL of using lame tactics.You better watch it or they'll ask CCP to come here and confirm that to their knowledge EVOL doesn't use lame tactics.
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Skillshot
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Posted - 2004.02.16 11:13:00 -
[47]
Simple soultion.. if you log out near a gate, when you log back in you find you ship has been repossesd or towed and you have to pay 75% of the value of the ship and its contence to get it back out of impound :P the rats gank us, the cops gank the rats.. not thats resonable but the rats are not getting ganked to the same lvl as the rest of us are do maybe just maby if your neg sec you have to pay a fee to dock say 20000isk per -.1, and in 0.0 space if you negitive sec with that stations factions after 5.0 they kill you.
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.02.16 11:33:00 -
[48]
Quote:
The easiest way for stoping this is to disable the "high slots" on the recently logged on ship. Lets say for 2 minuts. That way you can do everything except activate weapons.
What do you think?
I think what you've suggested is the best solution to what is effectively giving people a free cloaking device with 0 fitting and skill requirements. I'd put it at 3 mins no offensive action/high slot use possible if someone logged more than 2 mins ago (to allow people who CTD to come straight back in).
Nightmare scenario for me would be to warp to a gate and get targetted by a lone tanked ship or frigate. "Great," I think, "an easy kill!". Next thing I know 10 people log in around me and gank me. If they were all fitting cloaking devices then I'd think - "wow great tactics and coordination there!" (probably with some random harsh words thrown in :-) ). If they were simply logging in I'd think "sigh, sad people" (probably with some random harsh words thrown in :-) ).
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
SwitchBl4d3
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Posted - 2004.02.16 11:43:00 -
[49]
who honestly gives a ****. If youknow your enemy you come to expect it get over it
"Teh lord of Nonni"
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Sally
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Posted - 2004.02.16 11:44:00 -
[50]
Lame tactic.
--
Stories: #1
--
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Tyrrax Thorrk
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Posted - 2004.02.16 12:09:00 -
[51]
RUS r ghey (and it wouldn't have caught us if I'd been there ^^)
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Shaelin Corpius
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Posted - 2004.02.16 12:23:00 -
[52]
Edited by: Shaelin Corpius on 16/02/2004 12:27:08
Edited by: Shaelin Corpius on 16/02/2004 12:25:14
Log kills are super lame.
Number of logged pilots in space would be a good option. Full cloak penalties for loging in space. If you considering loggin in space the same as waiting at the next gate with a spotter and jump in to attempt to hit your target, then why don't you do it?
Personally my favorite Idea is a mix of one allready stated, if theres a station in system and you log in space, when you log in your in the station cause the faction towed you.
No station in system you appear cloaked at random planet/moon.
I mean seriously why sit and wait all day in one spot camping a gate with 10 BS, waiting for that indy of gold, knowing damn well they probably will find out your camping and not use it.
Instead go hunt down the frickin indy. I mean pirates are supposed to be really good at pvp right? All i gotta say is anyone who is good at pvp has no trouble scanning for players, and finding ways to get em.
Ya they got bookmarks, instajumps, and what not. Go raise hell in the systems, if you can't hang with a corp that you trying to kill, guess what. Go find someone else.
Sounds like the ppl who don't want to take the risk for the isk isn't always the carebears.
I don't know bout you but when I'm thristy for blood I like to find it, hunt it down, lock it up, and enjoy. Little more exiting than log in kill, log out, rinse repeat.
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Darkcraft
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Posted - 2004.02.16 12:31:00 -
[53]
One of our guys, I think it was hicks, suggested that anyone logging off within 100k from the gate should remain in space permanently. No one is going to legitimately log off in space that close to the stargate, and anyone who ctds near the gate is more than likely to come back on to carry on playing. That would stop the people hiding logged off by a gate to log on and kill people when told to by their m8s. It would also stop people, who are unable to outrun a blockade or people chasing them to the gate, from logging off and hoping they vanish b4 getting blown up.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.16 13:05:00 -
[54]
Well, whaddya know!
RUS log-off to avoid death, and log-on to get kills.
Totally lame.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Yama Booshi
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Posted - 2004.02.16 13:06:00 -
[55]
Quote:
PA is going to whine no matter what we do.
i got called a cheater the other night cus i used 2 sensor dampeners.
quit crying, and adapt.
That you got called a cheater for using dampeners is not quite the same as ppl logging off at a gate to gank unsuspecting jumpers.
therefore your comment is void.
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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.16 13:49:00 -
[56]
Quote:
Quote:
The easiest way for stoping this is to disable the "high slots" on the recently logged on ship. Lets say for 2 minuts. That way you can do everything except activate weapons.
What do you think?
I think what you've suggested is the best solution to what is effectively giving people a free cloaking device with 0 fitting and skill requirements. I'd put it at 3 mins no offensive action/high slot use possible if someone logged more than 2 mins ago (to allow people who CTD to come straight back in).
Nightmare scenario for me would be to warp to a gate and get targetted by a lone tanked ship or frigate. "Great," I think, "an easy kill!". Next thing I know 10 people log in around me and gank me. If they were all fitting cloaking devices then I'd think - "wow great tactics and coordination there!" (probably with some random harsh words thrown in :-) ). If they were simply logging in I'd think "sigh, sad people" (probably with some random harsh words thrown in :-) ).
What about those Sensor Dampeners and ECM Jammers? I would say, add an extra attribute to all ship modules that flags it as an offensive module, and disable it for 3 minutes after logging in. This would allow you to run your shields, but not jam or attack another ship. BUT, even having people log in that cannot fire is still an advantage if you think about it.
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Maud Dib
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Posted - 2004.02.16 14:40:00 -
[57]
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The easiest way for stoping this is to disable the "high slots" on the recently logged on ship. Lets say for 2 minuts. That way you can do everything except activate weapons.
What do you think?
I think what you've suggested is the best solution to what is effectively giving people a free cloaking device with 0 fitting and skill requirements. I'd put it at 3 mins no offensive action/high slot use possible if someone logged more than 2 mins ago (to allow people who CTD to come straight back in).
Nightmare scenario for me would be to warp to a gate and get targetted by a lone tanked ship or frigate. "Great," I think, "an easy kill!". Next thing I know 10 people log in around me and gank me. If they were all fitting cloaking devices then I'd think - "wow great tactics and coordination there!" (probably with some random harsh words thrown in :-) ). If they were simply logging in I'd think "sigh, sad people" (probably with some random harsh words thrown in :-) ).
What about those Sensor Dampeners and ECM Jammers? I would say, add an extra attribute to all ship modules that flags it as an offensive module, and disable it for 3 minutes after logging in. This would allow you to run your shields, but not jam or attack another ship. BUT, even having people log in that cannot fire is still an advantage if you think about it.
What about the poor bastard who CTD's in a fight? So in your plan he logs back on. Can't shoot, can't use dampeners so unless he's a tanked BS he gets to watch as he dies? If you can't kill your opponent you lose period. I understand people getting mad because they lost a ship but setting up someone to lose a ship isn't helping.
Let's be honest, using ts or ventrilo at all is getting an out of game advantage because to allows for faster and better communication. Well unless your trying to figure out what the KIA guys are saying.
Remember the lamers will be with you always.
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2004.02.16 14:59:00 -
[58]
i agree "login" *tactics* is lame since it has nothing to do with real combat exept as a function in the game, do it so you cant logout next to station/gate etc and if you do you are instadocked at nearest station or planet when logging in again. Safespot logging is fine, but lets make it impossible to log at gates, stations etc.
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Alotta Fagina
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Posted - 2004.02.16 15:01:00 -
[59]
Quote:
I have nothing against gate camping. It is necessary. But logged off gate camping waiting for your buddy on TS to tell you when to log in and gank someone with him is for women. Cough..(Evol)...
why im i not suprised?
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Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2004.02.16 15:12:00 -
[60]
Quote:
What about the poor bastard who CTD's in a fight? So in your plan he logs back on. Can't shoot, can't use dampeners so unless he's a tanked BS he gets to watch as he dies? If you can't kill your opponent you lose period. I understand people getting mad because they lost a ship but setting up someone to lose a ship isn't helping.
My suggestion includes a timer for logging in - so if you log out and manage to log in again within, say, 2 minutes you come in as usual with no penalties. Even on dial up you should be able to log in again within 2 minutes. Leave it longer and you come up semi-disabled - if someone logs in during some nasty battle they weren't expecting then all that person needs to do is immediately log out again - or more fool them for logging at a gate. This could be justified ingame as having your capacitors/batteries run down and your systems needing to be rebooted or whatever.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.16 15:50:00 -
[61]
As for loging out during a battle. It should be something to the effect that if players are attacking you while logging off then your ship is still game for x amount of time after players stop attacking you. This way you are penalized by logging off from players but not crashing when fighting NPCs. Though you would still be in trouble if you CTD during a big fleet engagement.
Although if you are in a big fleet engagement you are already taking a huge risk of losing your ship. (though the CTD would still suck)
As for logging in, simply make it so that you have no capacitor and shields when you log in. This would at least be a similar penalty to a cloaking device, (and whats the freaken difference if you're employing this tactic?)
Login camping is just lame, however people will use it more and more unless something is done about it.
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Terrapin
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:04:00 -
[62]
Edited by: Terrapin on 16/02/2004 16:14:30
(edited to clarify)
Quote:
As for logging in, simply make it so that you have no capacitor and shields when you log in. This would at least be a similar penalty to a cloaking device, (and whats the freaken difference if you're employing this tactic?)
Like someone pointed out earlier, this would be rather annoying for someone having a CTD during a fight with an npc.
The simplest solution would be to just disable the possibility to initiate combat within 60 seconds after logging in. Only initiating combat would be restricted, returning fire should be fine.
Problem solved.
---
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:08:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Dust Puppy on 16/02/2004 16:12:35
Wow so many people I disagree with.
1. Loging in to a fight is nothing like waiting in the next system, well actually it's a little like but with one important difference. Let's look at an example, team A is looking for team B and sees a 3 pilots on a certain system on the map. A scout goes in and confirms that it is team B. Team a checks the map again and see that there are not a pilot in the neighboring system so they attack. Then team B's allies log on and finish team A off.
2. Making you reappear at a random position when you log off is a bad idea because I can see people log off and back on to escape fight. Now I know people log off to escape fight but usually they can't log on right away as the opponent is still there. It would propably make a very long and very boring intra system chase 
3. There was at least a 3. but I forgot what it was but I think it had something to do with what Maud dib said
Edit: Ok about what Maud dib said then we have to realize that ccp will never make everybody happy or EVE a flawless game (and hence making everybody happy) so we have to draw the line somewhere and I think the unlucky people that ctd will just have to be that, unlucky. I can't believe people are still ctd'ing like crazy.
__________
Capacitor research |
Anna Heart
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:11:00 -
[64]
Log out/ Log on tactics **** me off more then anything.
Corps like Evol will move like 20 pilots and get confronted by a larger number and so all of them log off. They then have an alt peek on every 30 minutes or so. the moment they out number us BAM everyone of them is back on and rushing the gates. No offence but people don't pay for EVE so they can watch the lil green and red bars light up like chirstmas in vegas. I feel scanner needs reviewing so you can simply scan for everyone in system as people are abusing OOSS bookmarks. (I had a friend expermenting and he has managed to travel more then 54,000 AU from the nearst stellar object in like 45 minutes... no offence but when someone gets to 30 AU it's nearly impossable to find em let alone 54,000au.
My Realistic solution for logging out of combat. When you are engaged in a PvP situation and log off you should remain in space for no less then 10 minutes. During this time span you are unable to log on an alt. PERIOD. if no agression occurs then you only wait the usual 1 - 2 minutes.
My Realistic solution for log in ganking. would be make it so when a pilot logs on they cannot target anything for 5 minutes exception being Autotarget back. This means if someone agresses on you (in CTD during fight situation) you auto target back andare able to fight. You can also run shields ECCMs ect. ect. ect. As for the log in ganker. They get to sit there and watch you dirve by, warp away, or if you feel opertune lock them and engage ina fight since they all have 5 minutes before they may attack the swarm of 15 BSs loggin on using TS method could be penalized by not being able to all lock and attack so only pilots locked can fight how locked them and the others get to watch their exploit backfire
Evil log out stop
anyone who logs out ship is instantly impound their ships and they are then charged 1/2 their skill points in isk (or all their isk if they are short) then have to pay 55% their ship's current market value to get it released from impound. Doubt many would log from battl then (this would only be if agression occured in last 10 minutes of coarse.
Evil Log in Gank fix
When a pilot logs in and agresses within 10 minutes of log in, only exception is auto lock back on someone, And commits an act of agress or attempts to jump a gate his/her ship has a "starting up" malfuction from systems used while systems still starting the warp core of their ship goes critical and the ship exploids (not self destruct modules would still be dropped) This would punish the (says something inapropriate)
InfiniCorp, Lunatic at Arms
When you think of picking a fight remember this, I've got a big gun, and the insanity to use it. |
Belzavior
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:17:00 -
[65]
Quote:
Quote:
As for logging in, simply make it so that you have no capacitor and shields when you log in. This would at least be a similar penalty to a cloaking device, (and whats the freaken difference if you're employing this tactic?)
Like someone pointed out earlier, this would be rather annoying for someone having a CTD during a fight with an npc.
The simplest solution would be to just disable the possibility to initiate combat within 60 seconds after logging in. Only initiating combat would be restricted, returning fire should be fine.
Problem solved.
It might be annoying if you CTD with NPCs around you, and you log back in with no shields and no cap. But you should still be able to get away to repair, unless of course you were almost dead when you CTD then you would of probably died anyhow.
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Terrapin
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Posted - 2004.02.16 16:27:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Terrapin on 16/02/2004 16:29:05
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
As for logging in, simply make it so that you have no capacitor and shields when you log in. This would at least be a similar penalty to a cloaking device, (and whats the freaken difference if you're employing this tactic?)
Like someone pointed out earlier, this would be rather annoying for someone having a CTD during a fight with an npc.
The simplest solution would be to just disable the possibility to initiate combat within 60 seconds after logging in. Only initiating combat would be restricted, returning fire should be fine.
Problem solved.
It might be annoying if you CTD with NPCs around you, and you log back in with no shields and no cap. But you should still be able to get away to repair, unless of course you were almost dead when you CTD then you would of probably died anyhow.
The point is, that if I log in and find someone (pc or npc) firing on my ship I'd better bloody well have the option to fire back.
The other way around; being able to exploit out-of-game communication to 'login ambush' someone should be squished.
Just block the possibility to initiate combat within 60 seconds after logging in, and presto, no more problem.
---
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Kaylon Syi
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Posted - 2004.02.16 17:34:00 -
[67]
TS, Ventrillo, and the like are good. Having mechanics to exploit log in is definately bad. PvP in EVE has basically turned into something akin to Counter-Strike h@x with this crap in the game. When I go to 0.0 I have to watch my ass double time for people like this. This also seeds doubt about going places because you can expect this to be used by unethical players ( hey if the shoe fits... wear it... nothing personal. )
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TerminusX
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Posted - 2004.02.16 17:49:00 -
[68]
Now come on. Anyone who says thats it's 'ok' to appear out of nowhere when your buddies use game voice to gank you is just a player who has no ethics or care for proper game play. I have no problem with pirates camping gates (that's what pirates do) but this tactic is ridiculous. And unfortunately, there are ethical and non-ethical pirates out there (more of the later I fear). So, randomize the log in location...its the only way to do it...it's not perfect but it will work. Another option is lost shields and capacity for 30 seconds or so while cloaked...so either you wait....or you move at your own risk until they charge up. Something has to be done about this exploit is game mechanics.
Divine Retribution - My name is TerminusX, prepare to die. |
wordy
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Posted - 2004.02.16 17:51:00 -
[69]
Edited by: wordy on 16/02/2004 17:56:57
Quote:
My Realistic solution for log in ganking. would be make it so when a pilot logs on they cannot target anything for 5 minutes exception being Autotarget back. This means if someone agresses on you (in CTD during fight situation) you auto target back andare able to fight. You can also run shields ECCMs ect. ect. ect. As for the log in ganker. They get to sit there and watch you dirve by, warp away, or if you feel opertune lock them and engage ina fight since they all have 5 minutes before they may attack the swarm of 15 BSs loggin on using TS method could be penalized by not being able to all lock and attack so only pilots locked can fight how locked them and the others get to watch their exploit backfire
I think this would be a good idea to be honest, implimenting an idea like this would send out a clear message to the cheaters that CCP will not tolerate pathetic tactics like log in ganking. We shouldn't get anyone moaning about this idea either, as using log in ganking should be considered an exploit. The ppl who do moan about could be conisdered exploiters and appropritate action could be taken against them
After all the vast magority of us adhere to the rules, and tactics like this just ruin it for everyone not willing to play in such sad way
"Hey, I am cool. My mum said so!" - Milhouse Van Houten
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KIAInkZ
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:39:00 -
[70]
How about a timer that only allows a certain amount of ships in a certain radius to become active in a certain period of time.
OR
Logging in, freezing your ship, and making you appear in local a good 20 - 30 seconds before you can decloak and move off.
It's not a tactic, it's gh3y, and unsportsmanlike, and I would hope that would be reason enough not to do it. we're not a bunch of kids.
I bet those same people would nick money out of the bank whilst playing monopoly, when others aren't looking, and then say 'but you could do it too'
---
Forums/Killboard - http://www.kia-corp.co.uk |
Riffix
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:44:00 -
[71]
I like Fester's log in with no cap idea. However, logging in without shields would be a little excessive because that is a defensive function and what we are trying to eliminate here is cheap offensive exploits.
I don't think this would be a real problem for CTD people when in big trouble because unless you wait the time it takes for your ship to completely vanish from the system, when you log back in your ship is in the same state as when you left it(you hope).
The other elegant idea is the one that says that you can only target back after logging if for x minutes or seconds. Now that I think about it that might be the best one actually.
I am also with the crowd that likes the idea of your ship never vanishing from the galaxy and just going into a powerdown mode with passive sig cloak(which would explain why people wouldn't be able to find with a scanner even though they can find other masses like roids but if they happen to run into it they will see it) however, I have to agree with skillz that it would kill eve if dropped into the current system.
Anything that involves stations really isn't practical because some people LIVE in places where stations are scarce. The best way would be to give people the ability to just pick a direction and warp off that way till they stop the warp. However, I have a feeling that this is harder to do and why it isn't possible yet.
"Lead, follow, or get the #@$@#$ out of the way" |
Zenobia
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:49:00 -
[72]
Quote:
The difference is, they can make use of this in low sec empire space more easily (and is currently being done by DNA corp). They wait until a player is in warp toward a gate (and thus is unable to cancel warp), then via TS communications with the scout, they all log back in (out of sentry range), and are able to snipe at the ship. While this goes on anyways, what they are doing is tricking the map's "players in space" feature as well as the local player listing, so they can get players to warp to the gate thinking it's empty.
Not true. We have never logged out at a gate camp in an attempt to lure people into the system. Please get your facts straight.
-- Zen
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Deadzone
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:51:00 -
[73]
This topic has been going on for a bit.....Would really like a response from CCP on the matter. We all know Devs have read the thread.
Vice-Admiral
Executive Commanding Officer
Military Command
Hadead Drive Yards |
XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.02.16 18:55:00 -
[74]
Quote:
It's not a tactic, it's gh3y, and unsportsmanlike, and I would hope that would be reason enough not to do it. we're not a bunch of kids.
Exactly my opinion.
And I didn't expect it from the Bladerunners corp 
 |
Lowen Phat
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Posted - 2004.02.16 20:45:00 -
[75]
Quote:
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 00:31:57
I agree. Logging into space via TS coordination to gank ships is poor form.
Also I want a fix to alt logging to avoid confrontations. I was in a vigil with warp/web/mwd and captured an indy and demanded a toll. He logged off and onto on alt so fast that his ship was gone from space in under 10 seconds, before my corpmates could finish targeting him to destroy once we saw him leave local.
Or you could stop ripping people off.
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Zarthan
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Posted - 2004.02.16 20:57:00 -
[76]
Quote:
They should make it so ppl can't log off in space...i believe they had that during beta testing.
that would be hard to force.
_______________________________________________________
Get custom sigs and graphics done here
Unforgivn Website
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TauTut
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Posted - 2004.02.16 21:21:00 -
[77]
Edited by: TauTut on 16/02/2004 21:24:30
Quote:
Edited by: LargeNuts on 16/02/2004 00:04:33
This is simply the most idiotic ability to exploit in any game in history, it is ruining the game, ruining Fleet Tactics, ruining the ability for Corps to protect thier space.
Fix this CCP. Being in a fight at a gate after a well thought out and scouted attack only to be ganked by 10 BS out of nowhere is completely stupid. At least put people way out at the edge of the systems they are in when logging of, or make a no-fighting time of 3 minutes after logging in. This would discourage people from logging in at the gate in mid battle.
The map is WORTHLESS because tje "Number of Pilots in Space" is completely innacurate. Why not add "Logged off players in space"? Until you do, the map is a joke.
I am completely disgusted with this.
They should make it the same as powering up from cloak. When you log on .. your cap has to recharge .. that would put a new spin on it.
-TT
Background
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KrapYl
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Posted - 2004.02.16 21:38:00 -
[78]
someone mentioned 0 shield & 0 CAP... 0 shield might be a little hard, maybe just the 0 CAP 25% shield ?
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.16 22:18:00 -
[79]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 16/02/2004 22:19:10
The server saves your logoff position.
They could make it so your scanner detects these logoff positions as ships, which means that youŠll have to dock somewhere if you donŠt want people to be waiting for you when you log back on.
Might help a bit against those cowards who log off once they realise they're toast if they donŠt, too.
Mai's Idealog |
Reiisha
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Posted - 2004.02.16 22:31:00 -
[80]
Quote:
Handicap the log-in campers as if they had just disengaged a cloaking device.
The original idea in more detail
Uhm, good idea?
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
Jake Pliskin
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Posted - 2004.02.16 22:37:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Jake Pliskin on 16/02/2004 22:42:50
when you get to hear of lame tactics like this, i can't help wondering if there is a future with programming AI bots.
Bots can be programmed so they don't cheat, and they don't whine half as much, when they get killed
But on the minus side - humans are a lot more unpredictable
PS - there are some really good ideas being suggested in this thread. Hope someone at CCP is listening in |
jamesw
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Posted - 2004.02.16 22:40:00 -
[82]
Has anybody petitioned and/or had a response from CCP about this?
I would be interested to know what their policy is towards this tactic.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
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Siris
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Posted - 2004.02.16 23:01:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Siris on 16/02/2004 23:01:56
Quote:
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 00:31:57
I agree. Logging into space via TS coordination to gank ships is poor form.
Also I want a fix to alt logging to avoid confrontations. I was in a vigil with warp/web/mwd and captured an indy and demanded a toll. He logged off and onto on alt so fast that his ship was gone from space in under 10 seconds, before my corpmates could finish targeting him to destroy once we saw him leave local.
What about needlessly shooting at jumpgates for the sole purpose of generating lag?
Fix your own stuff before shouting at anyone else.
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.17 11:22:00 -
[84]
Its pathetic.
Its cheating and CCP do not make it a bannable offense? Its a joke.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.17 11:29:00 -
[85]
Quote:
Yeah. But that can still be accomplished by waiting in the neighboring system and jumping in when needed..
If they are in the next system along, you can see their number son the map.
If like most good corps, when travelling you always have a scout out in front, he will see them.
Logging on at any point in a coordinated fashion, just to get kills, is **** poor, and only the lowest of the low would bother with this.
KIA-Rs current enemies, are reported to have begun to use this tactic, I am ashamed for them, but never will KIA-R whilst I am in the corp, get involved in such low ass cheating ****e as this, not even if it means we lose a battle time and time again.
Honour isnt given, its earnt.
CCP: you can easily check a report of the use of this exploit for its validity, you should make it a bannable offense IMMEDIATELY, and take exploit reports of this manner very seriously. How can you expect your game to be taken seriously as the most involved online RPG to date, when you allow such OOC OOG tactics.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Junko Willsso
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:21:00 -
[86]
Totally agree. Its an exploit, its cheating and should be bannable. Anyone who does it should be ashamed.
To think that CCP introduced the cloak in to help stop ganking at JIP - they have just moved the problem to JOP's !
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:27:00 -
[87]
KIAEddZ, if you want to beat Evolution you will have to use the same dirty tricks they use.
They love using those login traps, and they do it quite often, get used to it.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
JigJaw
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:28:00 -
[88]
Edited by: JigJaw on 17/02/2004 13:37:38
in war and pirating all tactics are ok! why should ccp change this then some aliances could also get like alot of noob frigates to log out at gate and stay logged LOL theres more danger in eliminating that thing than there is to let it stay and jim so does m00 huh ?!? yes u do :) i know for a fact that you guys have used this one too so dont blame evol :) all use it get ower it and all start using ts and travel in pairrs ofr find ways to get out... its posible u know....
My hatred can only grow. |
Vel Kyri
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:36:00 -
[89]
this would be much simpler if they just made ships persistent - ie, when you log, they stay exactly where you left them - doing exactly what you left them doing.
ie - turn your shield boosters on before you leave, and hope you dont run out of cap overnight.
-----
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:46:00 -
[90]
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 17/02/2004 13:47:30
Quote:
KIAEddZ, if you want to beat Evolution you will have to use the same dirty tricks they use.
They love using those login traps, and they do it quite often, get used to it.
Not a chance in hell m8. We value honour above everything else. We will beat them, the straight up way, at the end of the day, KIA-Rs reputation, is far more important than a few miserly Battleships. Evol can act as they want, the only thing it does, is further aid us in our resolution to win this war.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:53:00 -
[91]
Quote:
Not a chance in hell m8. We value honour above everything else. We will beat them, the straight up way, at the end of the day, KIA-Rs reputation, is far more important than a few miserly Battleships. Evol can act as they want, the only thing it does, is further aid us in our resolution to win this war.
So what's the score in Venal these days?
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Stavros
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Posted - 2004.02.17 13:54:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Stavros on 17/02/2004 13:56:24
This is just a completely lame trick and without wishing to start a flame war the only corp I have seen/heard of using this alot is evolution, I think they got sassinaks raven using it in curse.
We do the wait on the other side of gate then jump through to surprise the enemy but we never use this **** and we have probably the worst reputation for bending the rules in eve.
Imho its not an exploit, just a totally lame thing to do, this is because what is and what isnt an exploit is not a matter of fact, but a matter of opinion and the only people who's opinions on the subject matter are the devs and probably senior gms.
However it might be covered under the 2nd clause of the definition of exploit on the support site (ta gaia). Which states something about external influences on the game that it is impossible to defend against (fits sorta loosely i think, ish) However proving it is a different matter.
On a less inflamotory note, I cannot think of a decent solution to this problem that would no make life even harder for those that crash in belts with npc pirates etc or during legitamate pvp combat.
Whilst I have no doubt that evol will rush onto the forums proclaiming their innocence etc etc, the sheer volume of corps, both 'pirate' and otherwise that now have full knowledge of them (ab)using this trick is growing daily.
What we need to do is think of a decent solution to this problem that does not require masses of game alterations and does not unduly interfere with other, less lame activities...
Best ideas get tEh fr33 c00kies!!!!
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 14:01:00 -
[93]
I'm going to wait patiently for someone from CFS to come on the forums and complain about m0o using this trick.
It's lame, but hey!, if it isn't an exploit it can be used.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
KIAEddZ
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 14:24:00 -
[94]
Quote:
So what's the score in Venal these days?
Heavily in favour of Evolution if its a simple numbers check, but member to death ratio, its a far different story. Also if you count the number of Evol kills on the PAs PvP corps (KIA-R Blades Celeste DSIN etc) then the numbers lso look very different.
KIA-R have lost 2 Bs to evol. Heres the rundown from KIA-Rs pov, as per our internal forums.
R-K only kills marked with R-K. Rest of kills were made by mixed fleets of PA members with R-K members present.
Battleship kills (total 8):
Deathwing - Scorpion (16-Feb) (R-K)
Estarriol - Scorpion (16-Feb) (R-K)
Zeus's - Apocalypse x 2 (13-Feb) (15-Feb)
Bubbles Donkey - Apocalypse (15-Feb)
Lianhaun [Evol]- Scorpion (11-Feb) (R-K)
Jackal - Raven (10-Feb)
Shrike (Molle?) - Apocolypse (10-Feb)
Total R-K losses so far, Darkcraft Scorpion, Acks Tempest.
ther are of course other confirmed PA kills on Evol, but they arent recorded in our forums, if we are not involved at all. For this list, you would need to approach the PA council.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 14:29:00 -
[95]
That's only 7 battleships though, whose the 8th?
I heard PA was about to surrender, that true?
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
KIAEddZ
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 14:34:00 -
[96]
2 x kills on Zues m8. Look closer ;)
PA surrendering to Evol?? Not afaik, and can only presume the rumour was started with intention to cause conflict, as the PAs resolution to win this war, grows day by day.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 14:38:00 -
[97]
Quote:
2 x kills on Zues m8. Look closer ;)
PA surrendering to Evol?? Not afaik, and can only presume the rumour was started with intention to cause conflict, as the PAs resolution to win this war, grows day by day.
Oh, missed the x2. Poor guy.
How many ships has PA lost?
I heard it was quite a bit.
Celestial Apocolypse seems to want to back out of the war, I guess they can't take the heat. >_>
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
KIAEddZ
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 14:43:00 -
[98]
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 17/02/2004 14:44:47
AFAIK Celeste havent lost many ships/if any. And I spoke to Darth last night, they ahve 0 intention of "backing out" of the war, although like KIA-R, this task is carried out with a slightly heavy heart, simply due to the enemy we have been forced to face. That said, it detracts not from our resolve.
Your info either seems to be made up on the spot, to cause inherent debate, based upon foum mis information, or simply something you saw whilst asleep last night, as so far, its pretty factless.
As for PA ships downed, i believe its at least double that of Evol losses, maybe slightly more, but we have got 10-15 times the amount of active members in the PA than they do in Evol, and very many of the downed craft, have not been seasoned fighters. With some exceptions of course.
Peace maybe on the horizon, but surrender is most certainly not.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Dust Puppy
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 14:47:00 -
[99]
Quote:
Quote:
2 x kills on Zues m8. Look closer ;)
PA surrendering to Evol?? Not afaik, and can only presume the rumour was started with intention to cause conflict, as the PAs resolution to win this war, grows day by day.
Oh, missed the x2. Poor guy.
How many ships has PA lost?
I heard it was quite a bit.
Celestial Apocolypse seems to want to back out of the war, I guess they can't take the heat. >_>
lol
__________
Capacitor research |
LargeNuts
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 16:43:00 -
[100]
Bump
|
LargeNuts
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 17:43:00 -
[101]
Dev Response Please.
|
Lentia
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 18:08:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Lentia on 17/02/2004 19:04:22
Hmm, do peeps actually think about what they type before they type it or not?
You cant have mods or anything else not work for many minutes after you log back on because of the people who CTD in a fight. Just think about it for a second before you post, please. Most would quit right there.
In terms of teamspeak, it is used in many online games as a communication tool. Many people use it. It helps for pirates to gank indies, it helps for military operations, it helps for fleet battles to call targets and coordinate teams. Heck we even use it for large corp mines to stay organized. TS is here to stay.
If you want to stop people from logging in at gates or around stations just have it so you cant log in around gates or stations. Seems simple enough.
ON A SIDE NOTE: Starvos you INVENTED the "use your alt to scout" then "have your logged off buddies logg on when the numbers are advantageous" routine. So dont even play innocent or honourable; you are niether. You did this routine CONSTANTLY in your invasion of Fountian. Heck, we even KNOW you have Teamspeak spies monintoring other teamspeak channels to get an idea of activity which is COMPLETELY using out of game mecahnics for intel as opposed to just enhancing communication.
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
LargeNuts
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 18:30:00 -
[103]
Quote:
Hmm, do peeps actually think about what they type before they type it or not?
You cant have mods or anything else not work for many minutes after you log back on because of the people who CTD in a fight. Just think about it for a second before you post, please. Most would quit right there.
In terms of teamspeak, it is used in many online games as a communication tool. Many people use it. It helps for pirates to gank indies, it helps for military operations, it helps for fleet battles to call targets and coordinate teams. Heck we even use it for large corp mines to stay organized. TS is here to stay.
If you want to stop people from logging in at gates or around stations just have it so you cant log in around gates or stations. Seems simple enough.
ON A SIDE NOTE: Starvos you are a lying sack of turd. You INVENTED the "use your alt to scout" then "have your logged off buddies logg on when the numbers are advantageous" routine. So dont even play innocent or honourable; you are niether. You did this routine CONSTANTLY in your invasion of Fountian. Heck, we even KNOW you have Teamspeak spies monintoring other teamspeak channels to get an idea of activity which is COMPLETELY using out of game mecahnics for intel as opposed to just enhancing communication. END YOUR(LYING AND CHEATING)SELF!
To whom are you referring? My idea, if you read my post, is the same as yours. To be moved to another part of space away from where they logged, as long as that other part of space is not by the gate or station.
Stavros, shame on you if she is telling the truth. 
|
pooti
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 18:32:00 -
[104]
Quote:
ON A SIDE NOTE: Starvos you are a lying sack of turd. You INVENTED the "use your alt to scout" then "have your logged off buddies logg on when the numbers are advantageous" routine. So dont even play innocent or honourable; you are niether. You did this routine CONSTANTLY in your invasion of Fountian. Heck, we even KNOW you have Teamspeak spies monintoring other teamspeak channels to get an idea of activity which is COMPLETELY using out of game mecahnics for intel as opposed to just enhancing communication. END YOUR(LYING AND CHEATING)SELF!
Lentia, I know you're a bit bitter (and I can't blame you after the losses your corp suffered), but please: if you're going to attack us, at least be informed. We never set up log-in traps at gates and stations, and that's what's being discussed here.
Do we sometimes have a few ships log in at the same time? Yes, of course. We get along rather well and a lot of us leave TS open while we're playing other games or doing other computing. Eventually someone will say "hey, I'm gonna log in, is anything going on in XXX?" and a few others will say "I dunno, I'll log in too." And a few people log in. Oh no, end of the world.
Friends playing a game together, and at the same time. Go figure.
As far as waiting til numbers are in our favor - well, no. Most of the time we were logged off Eve and doing other things because you guys were hiding or logged off yourselves. If someone that could tolerate the waiting noticed people were logging back in, they'd let us know we might be able to get a fight. And then people log on, cause, like, we like to fight.
Sorry, but we're not going to sit there doing nothing for six hours while we wait for you to build your numbers.
And we regularly saw local in YZ jump by like 10-20 in a minute or two when we were flying around.
So please. Try harder next time.
|
Nepereta
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 18:33:00 -
[105]
Quote:
They should make it so ppl can't log off in space...i believe they had that during beta testing.
Some people have rl to attend to as well as eve
|
pooti
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 18:34:00 -
[106]
Edited by: pooti on 17/02/2004 18:44:43
And as far as spies goes, if your disgruntled alliance members want to tell us all your secrets, well, that's your problem.
And on a completely different note, I totally agree with you about not being able to log off/on near stations or gates. I think the same rule as there is with anchoring would be good - at least 150km out. I'm not sure how this would deal with ctd's or people logging in battle, but it seems like a good start.
The keep ships on the scanner after the log idea is a good one too, assuming there would be a field that displayed whether the ship was active or not.
Would work for people that warp to a moon and log to avoid combate too.
|
Lentia
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 18:57:00 -
[107]
We have spies in Fountain?
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 19:03:00 -
[108]
Quote:
ON A SIDE NOTE: Starvos you are a lying sack of turd. You INVENTED the "use your alt to scout" then "have your logged off buddies logg on when the numbers are advantageous" routine. So dont even play innocent or honourable; you are niether. You did this routine CONSTANTLY in your invasion of Fountian. Heck, we even KNOW you have Teamspeak spies monintoring other teamspeak channels to get an idea of activity which is COMPLETELY using out of game mecahnics for intel as opposed to just enhancing communication. END YOUR(LYING AND CHEATING)SELF!
We have never used the logon tactic and I do not claim to be honourable or innocent. We have spies in all the big alliances and one of the first things I do before we attack an alliance is to use our considerable wealth to buy and bribe the members for information on their forces/economics etc.
However there is a WORLD of difference between doing this and doing what this thread is about, and if you about to start slating people for logging off when they are outnumbered, pls take your crap elsewhere - nobody goes into a battle knowing they are going to loose. There is no harm in scouting with alts and then sending in other forces, this aint what this thread is about tbh you should learn to read. What this thread is about is leaving 1 or 2 ships at a gate, waiting to BE attacked then logging in the rest of your friends from teaspeak who are sat at the gate logged off.
www.learntoread.com k?
Stavros
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Lentia
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 19:17:00 -
[109]
Well part of the original post is about using teamspeak and subsequent posts said it should be an exploit.
I just disagreed with that. m0o were the ones who taught us to use TS as it was m0o who used it so effectively against Fountain. Yes you guys used TS and I see nothing wrong with that. We now use it too all the time.
However, when you start combining TS with gameplay for intelligence gathering as opposed to just communication it starts to become an exploit IMHO because you are using out of game mecahnics to affect in game performance. And lots of peeps and pvp corps are doing just that now. It sounds like Evo is doing it now. But to say that m0o never has, I bet that would be kind of a stretch.....
Lentia
Military Officer
http://www.staf.online-guild.com/ |
Zak Kingsman
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 20:03:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Zak Kingsman on 17/02/2004 20:05:23
The best two solutions I've seen to this so far are:
1)When you log off you have 2 minutes where your ship will remain powered after which your ship will be left with no shields and no cap. That will prevent CTDs from totally screwing you. I also think that during those 2 minutes your ship should remain vulnerable(logging off to aviod death is just as pathetic as mass loging to gank someone).
or
2)Your ship remains persistant. If you want to be safe log at a station. For those people who work in areas where there's no stations close they'll either have to make the trip back or I think there should be a powered down mode. It won't be a true cloak, I'd say that you should still be able to be picked up if you're within targeting range of another ship but outside of that you won't be.
So if you don't want to make a trip back to a station you could fly a few thousand km away from where ever you're camping (and the NPC spawns) and power down. This would drop your cap and your shields to 0 or maybe between 0 and 10%. Your ship wouldn't be spotted unless within targeting range. This won't make it safe but hey you're in 0.0 space, it ain't safe. Your other alternative would be, as someone else mentioned to leave your shield boosters on and hope for the best.
This of course would prevent people from logging to avoid dying as their ship would still be there. I think it might be a good idea to keep performing any automated operations that it had already been doing, that way ctd's in battle aren't quite so harsh. Eg. If you have your weapons on auto repeat and your shield booster on auto repeat and you ctd everthing performs as if you were there and had given no other input. If you were on autopilot you will continue on auto pilot, if you were moving in a certain direction or orbiting something you'd continue to do that.
Again, if you wanted to be safe all you'd have to do is dock.
|
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 21:10:00 -
[111]
Edited by: ProphetGuru on 17/02/2004 21:15:16
Edited by: ProphetGuru on 17/02/2004 21:12:15
OK.
I have never done a coordinated log on at a gate or station to kill someone.
I have never heard my corpmates do this on TS.
If we are outnumbered 40-7, we will sometimes log off, and go play hw or whatever for an hour, log on, ck numbers to see if anything has changed, and decide if we want to conduct any ops.
You can call that lame.
Maybe chasing 7 peeps with 40 ships and spamming local calling them puzzies (Presidio) for not warping to them and bending over, could be considered lame.
Perhaps not.
Guess it's a point of view.
PA set a log on trap in PF 2 nights ago. I didn't run to the boards and cry omg unfair.
BTW, we have killed closer to 60 pa battleships.
13 last saturday alone. (no losses that day btw)
Stav- sassinaks kill in curse was us waiting 1 sys over, while sending in a warp jammer tank to engage. Nothing wrong with that, it's a valid tactic.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
LargeNuts
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 21:18:00 -
[112]
Deny it if you want, but it has happened several times. The purpose of this thread is not necessarily to flame Evol, but to bring to CCP's attention this flaw in game mechanics.
I think everyone can agree the game would be more enjoyable and fair if it didnt happen anymore. The map would hold value again, and people that are willing to invest time and effort scouting and analyzing the map would have tactical advantage, as it should be.
|
pooti
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 21:32:00 -
[113]
Edited by: pooti on 17/02/2004 21:33:41
I think we should keep a running log of people who pull this, with specific incidents cited. If people really insist on continuing, fine - but at least they'll be shamed publically and people will know what to expect.
Also, after kinda thinking it over - I'm all for reconnecting with 0-25% shields/cap. I seriously can't think of a single time where someone has crashed (either friend or foe) in a combat situation without dying anyway (outside of the odd fleet battle where warping out upon reconnecting wasn't a problem).
|
ProphetGuru
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 21:36:00 -
[114]
Quote:
Edited by: pooti on 17/02/2004 21:33:41
I think we should keep a running log of people who pull this, with specific incidents cited. If people really insist on continuing, fine - but at least they'll be shamed publically and people will know what to expect.
Also, after kinda thinking it over - I'm all for reconnecting with 0-25% shields/cap. I seriously can't think of a single time where someone has crashed (either friend or foe) in a combat situation without dying anyway (outside of the odd fleet battle where warping out upon reconnecting wasn't a problem).
Agreed on both points.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
|
ZzeusS
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 21:41:00 -
[115]
What about the original plan of having your ship autodock to the closest favorable base?
|
Jim Raynor
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 21:45:00 -
[116]
Quote:
ON A SIDE NOTE: Starvos you INVENTED the "use your alt to scout" then "have your logged off buddies logg on when the numbers are advantageous" routine. So dont even play innocent or honourable; you are niether. You did this routine CONSTANTLY in your invasion of Fountian. Heck, we even KNOW you have Teamspeak spies monintoring other teamspeak channels to get an idea of activity which is COMPLETELY using out of game mecahnics for intel as opposed to just enhancing communication.
What's wrong with spying? If you have a huge alliance and want the advantages that having a huge alliance brings you, you must accept the fact that there can and will be espionage.
Why is scouting 'cheating', walking into traps and blockades with your battleship isn't overly smart.
Don't complain when people play the game in a smarter fashion than yourself.
------
ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Stavros
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:03:00 -
[117]
PG you can deny it if you want, I aint flaming and this is my last post.
Evol use the trick that this post is about more than any other corp I have seen, many different corps from a variety of backgrounds and regions of space have seen it in action.
And Sassinak did not loose his ship to people jumping in so don't come that one either.
Anyway last post on this crap cos I want a solution from this thread, not a meaningless flame war.
--
"Keep On Flaming Lamers, Like Your Ships Did When We Ended You" |
Destin Tyr
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:09:00 -
[118]
Edited by: Destin Tyr on 17/02/2004 22:13:06
Imho, if it can't be explained consistently with the game world, it's an exploit. How do you explain your ship (or fleet of ships, in my experience) just appearing there in space? You can't. Not and be consistent with the tech and devices available to our characters in the game world.
I'm sure that those who do this have a list of rationalizations a mile long, but the bottom line is, if you do this, your cheating. It's as lame as logging off to avoid getting killed (also an exploit). Be a man, fly to your fights, and if you're going to get blown up, self destruct your ship if you don't want whoever is blowing you up to get your stuff.
Having said all that, I'll just add this postscript. If my 20+ years of computer gaming have taught me anything, it's that, no matter the game, if there is a way to cheat/exploit/game the game, lots of people will not only do it, but try to think up reasons why it's alright for them to do it. The Battlefield 1942 community has a name for those types of jagoffs. The word is Smacktard.
Btw, Pooti. My brother (game name Severun) crossed your path in 0.0 space last night. We were on corp chat, and he asked what he should do (we're both still kind of new). I told him "be polite". He said "how am I supposed to be polite to someone named Pooti" He was in a shuttle I think, just having a look around the universe. Thanks for not blowing him up, mate.
-In space, no one can hear you whine |
StoreSlem
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:15:00 -
[119]
Quote:
And we regularly saw local in YZ jump by like 10-20 in a minute or two when we were flying around.
So please. Try harder next time.
That is most likely because of the local 'lag', it only updates once every 5 minutes or something, and with many ships moving around, it will hop like that from time to time.
Also on numerous occasions we were "lets log off now as nothings happening, and come back in two hours" etc... as you wrote yourself it doesn't have to be an 'exploit' to log in at the same time.
Never used no log in tricks the time I was online at least.
|
Centauri
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:18:00 -
[120]
Our corp had this done to us a few days ago by RUS corp - no doubt you've noticed the number of Star Control pilots posting here.
So EVOL aren't the only ones.
Centauri,
Former Fleet Admiral of Star Control |
pooti
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:35:00 -
[121]
Quote:
Quote:
And we regularly saw local in YZ jump by like 10-20 in a minute or two when we were flying around.
So please. Try harder next time.
That is most likely because of the local 'lag', it only updates once every 5 minutes or something, and with many ships moving around, it will hop like that from time to time.
Also on numerous occasions we were "lets log off now as nothings happening, and come back in two hours" etc... as you wrote yourself it doesn't have to be an 'exploit' to log in at the same time.
Never used no log in tricks the time I was online at least.
Sorry, I was being a bit catty and I guess that can lead to misinterpretation - I think theres a well-defined line between a log-in trap and just a bunch of people logging in. I think the first is a really lame tactic, while the latter is just an unfortunate result of people not wanting to sit around forever, and perfectly understandable.
So no, if I sounded like I was accusing FA of using lame log-in tactics, I didn't mean to - just saying that's it's something everyone does 'cause they kinda have to :]
|
pooti
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:36:00 -
[122]
Quote:
Edited by: Destin Tyr on 17/02/2004 22:13:06
Btw, Pooti. My brother (game name Severun) crossed your path in 0.0 space last night. We were on corp chat, and he asked what he should do (we're both still kind of new). I told him "be polite". He said "how am I supposed to be polite to someone named Pooti" He was in a shuttle I think, just having a look around the universe. Thanks for not blowing him up, mate.
:]
I hope I didn't say anything mean, I was kinda *****y last night!
|
Cuisinart
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 22:41:00 -
[123]
To quote Stavros~
Quote:
Anyway last post on this crap cos I want a solution from this thread, not a meaningless flame war.
How about have the ship warp to a random point upon disconnect. It's not a perfect solution, but it would help.
Vision without action is a daydream
Action without vision is a nightmare |
jamesw
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 23:00:00 -
[124]
Edited by: jamesw on 17/02/2004 23:02:36
Really guys,
Stop arguing about who is or isn't using the tactic. The general consensus seems to be that it is not looked upon very well...
IMHO, Introducing some sort of disability for ships who log on in space is the way to go. Killing off the hi-slots for a couple of minutes is one option, reducing the cap/shield to 25% is another option.
The potential problem I see with these options is that by the time the hislots are on or the shields back up, the ship could well be completely locked down and unable to do a thing.
To get around these by way of auto-targeting aggressors etc would most likely involve a fair bit of effort on the part of CCP, and a fix for this tactic would then be listed as coming "soon" (tm).
Correct me if I am wrong, but when you log in your ship is cloaked and you appear in local.
Why not just force the ship to remain cloaked for 60 seconds??
This would not disadvantage those who CTD in combat, as they are usually back online before their ship disappears (and most likely dead anyway).
I would guess that CCP need to do a little less programming to put this one in, and it might come "sooner" (tm) rather than "soon"(tm).
Edit: paragraphs are nice.
--
jamesw
Rubra Libertas Militia
Originally by: RollinDutchMasters
I fly a dominix, its like a portable blob in a can
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 23:24:00 -
[125]
...should have...
And yes, there should be designated spawnpoints which you cannot bookmark for people logging back on as to not interfere with gameplay in an underhanded way. Like using a neutral player to log off in empire space during a corporate war and have him log on in the middle of combat only to get shot up by the enemy thinking it's all clear and having them all shot down by Concord.
Convert Stations
|
Mr nStuff
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 23:40:00 -
[126]
Having the ship warp off 30AU in any direction 2 minutes after line death is ok. But if you CTD your ship disappears in 2 minutes. When you CTD.. The fact your ship disappeared after 2 minutes, this could be what saves your butt in a CTD.. So if your ship just warped away after two minutes.. That's about 30 more seconds of punishment before your out of danger.. So maybe have the ship warp away after 1.5 minutes of disconnectivity. But then what if your ship gets stuck in warp around an asteroid field. Hmmm..
Yeah, after 2 mins just have the ship disappear and be automatically moved 30AU away.
All will suffer from whatever fix is implemented. All because some people get butt sore when their ships blow up and have to find excuses as to the cause.
There's nothing cheesy about logging off, going and playing another game, and coming back to help your buddies when they ask for help on TS. You guys say, "well if I seen them on the big map when I colored the stars by players in space, then I wouldn't of showed up".. Or you say "well they weren't on local, otherwise I wouldn't of showed up." What's that mean. Just because they aren't on local doesn't mean they can't log-in at any given moment.
What your really asking for is the inability to log off and/or log back in.. That's about it.
If for some reason these players can't logout near the stargates anymore. They will just logout somewhere else. And when they jump back in or warp back to the gate... Your going to get ganked still.
Silly thread..
Just going to screw everyone over when CCP, in all their wisdom, comes up with a fix.
Another fix for something not broken that is..
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers..
Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period.
Expires on 19. September 2004 |
BobGhengisKhan
|
Posted - 2004.02.17 23:55:00 -
[127]
I really like the idea of getting cloak penalties (cap and shields) for logging in if you come in cloaked, and to keep the guys who crashed in a belt with NPCs safe, just make it so that if you log in before your ship cloaks, you dont suffer the penalty
One major problem with this "tactic" that people aint mentioning is that it makes corps less willing to attack. If theyre afraid of a 6 on 6 cause they believe 30 guys are going to log in, then corps like m0o and evol just wont get the fighting we want.
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KIAEddZ
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Posted - 2004.02.18 00:27:00 -
[128]
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 18/02/2004 00:28:20
I petitioned this tonight to CCP
They said there is nothing they can do to tell players when they can and cannot log in.
lololol
Asses.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=176347
www.kia-corp.co.uk/killboard
CEO of KIA Corp - Been doing it for the Laydeez since 1993, now we i |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 00:46:00 -
[129]
Quote:
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 18/02/2004 00:28:20
I petitioned this tonight to CCP
They said there is nothing they can do to tell players when they can and cannot log in.
lololol
Asses.
Guess this thread can be locked then.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Denathis Arabar
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Posted - 2004.02.18 00:57:00 -
[130]
Im sure they will have to do something about it as at the moment it makes cloaking pointless when it comes out.
Why buy a **** unit that makes you invisible but lowers all your stats when you can log in and have the invisibility for free without all of the downfalls? Very lame, sort it out ccp, its not hard im sure. Just make it a reportable exploit if its being abused to exploit?.. no?
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Sequin
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Posted - 2004.02.18 02:57:00 -
[131]
Where was the indignant outrage 6 months ago when other corps were doing this? Where was the sheer outrage and calls for bans on RELEASE, hell ARMAGEDDON day at the END OF BETA, my old corp did this! Where was the cries for fixing and player attacks? Oh wait, there were none.
Either this isn't a big issue, or only recently someone with balls got up and said something.
And yes, i've done this before, actually quite a few times, not in Evol but my former corporation, it works well.
Sue me.
^A Raem Civre Original
EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original.
[i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything
Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork!
b]
We are evil exploiters! |
MaiLina KaTar
|
Posted - 2004.02.18 04:01:00 -
[132]
When someone logs off in space his ship's signature should remain. Using the scanner, you should then be able to detect him just as any other ship. That means: If you see 7 ships on the scanner but only one of em is in local, you know what's up. It would mean that you'd have to dock if you want your ship to be safe until you log back on.
Penalties wouldnŠt be necessary this way.
Mai's Idealog |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.18 04:33:00 -
[133]
Edited by: Omniwar on 18/02/2004 04:38:02
Quote:
ON A SIDE NOTE: Starvos you INVENTED the "use your alt to scout" then "have your logged off buddies logg on when the numbers are advantageous" routine. So dont even play innocent or honourable; you are niether. You did this routine CONSTANTLY in your invasion of Fountian. Heck, we even KNOW you have Teamspeak spies monintoring other teamspeak channels to get an idea of activity which is COMPLETELY using out of game mecahnics for intel as opposed to just enhancing communication.
When we were in Fountain we often got tired of FA sitting in stations and safepoints so we decided to do other things for some time and so we wrote in local that we would log in after certain time, that time was from 30 minutes to sometimes 3 hours just to allow FA to regroup and get orginized, this NO ONE can deny without lying, we then logged back on at safepoints on the said time and attacked FA fleets gathered, sometimes FA did NOT use the time given to them and we killed stranglers, how is that lame?
Dont accuse us of fighting dirty when you know we dont and many peaple who actually fought with you and against us in fountain know this, clearly your mind doesnt comprehend that so you feel the need of lying to make you feel better.
Dont play with fire since it might burn you someday.
We did NOT log on at gates or stations so get your facts right for once, dont just talk nonsense and admit we fought fair and square, name one lame tactic m0o used in fountain to get kills, just one
Quote:
Edited by: Lentia on 17/02/2004 19:04:22
Hmm, do peeps actually think about what they type before they type it or not?
Perhaps you should think before typing as well, since clearly some of your posts have nothing to offer but slander that has no basis.
But back on topic, I think this is a childish way to get kills and has no real fun factor imo.
I think CCP can not fix this is any way without destroying playability for those who dont use this trick.
Spawn of the Devil
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.02.18 09:04:00 -
[134]
Quote:
Edited by: KIAEddZ on 18/02/2004 00:28:20
I petitioned this tonight to CCP
They said there is nothing they can do to tell players when they can and cannot log in.
lololol
Asses.
Well what did you expect they canŠt tell people when to log in. If 15 people log in just in time to save their friends then they are probably cheating scum but theoretically it could still be a coincidence.
The fact is that this is one of the "exploits" the devs canŠt catch you doing so all we can do in the meantime is name and shame those that are doing it, at least till they impliment some changes that make this tactic impossible.
__________
Capacitor research |
Iluyen
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Posted - 2004.02.18 09:23:00 -
[135]
Quote:
Where was the indignant outrage 6 months ago when other corps were doing this? Where was the sheer outrage and calls for bans on RELEASE, hell ARMAGEDDON day at the END OF BETA, my old corp did this! Where was the cries for fixing and player attacks? Oh wait, there were none.
Either this isn't a big issue, or only recently someone with balls got up and said something.
And yes, i've done this before, actually quite a few times, not in Evol but my former corporation, it works well.
Sue me.
Rofl:), the ability of EVOL members to ignore reality till they are blue in the face never ceases to amaze me:). At the start of the FA/SA/CC/CFS vs CA war EVOL was using this lame "tactic" and of course as usual were denying using it on the boards.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.18 09:33:00 -
[136]
RUS do it, Evol do it, even m0o are accused of doing it,
Let's all do it, let's log on and gank!!!*
*As sung by Ella fitzgerald.
The log-on tactic has its own risks - half your fleet could get a VERY slow loading time which would seriously expose the quicker loading ships to some serious trouble.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
M Hoshi
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:13:00 -
[137]
Wow, another thread on evol use exploits, ya know I think its been almost two months since the last.
I will address several points brought up here, firstly what happens when you log off.
I believe an adequate solution would be for a ship to never disappear, I was a firm fan of this and wished it had remained, alas I do not think it will fit within current mechanics. Perhaps the best method would be to simply alter the mechanics of cloaking, as in - if you stay cloaked for the full minute (which gives local a time to update), you uncloak and can use all your modules - however if you try to uncloak and fire instantly this would not be permitted.
Don't confuse this with jump-in cloaking, I think the two should clearly be distinquished.
And now, onto the Evolution are exploiters crap. TBH its nothing new to us, people are always accusing us of one exploit or another, however I will say this (and tbh i don't care if you believe me or not), but Evolution has never used a mass-login tactic whilst I have been flying with them. Yes we may log off and switch to alts when outnumbered, who wouldn't? We aren't going to willingly fly our 20 man fleet into your 40 pilot fleet - any sane person would do the same. Yes we may log on when asked to on TS, again I see not a problem with this - its simply working as a team to perform a task.
No i'm not trying to start a flame war here, if you have any *constructive* proof of Evolution using this tactic, then please bring it forward. Simply stating we do is nothing but heresay and slander
--
"We can smell the sea"
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.18 11:59:00 -
[138]
Quote:
Also, after kinda thinking it over - I'm all for reconnecting with 0-25% shields/cap. I seriously can't think of a single time where someone has crashed (either friend or foe) in a combat situation without dying anyway (outside of the odd fleet battle where warping out upon reconnecting wasn't a problem).
While that may be true for fleet battles it is not true for NPC hunts.
Several times I've relogged just in time to hit the MWD and get my ship away from the swarm that is eating my hull. It would really bite to log in just to watch my defenseless ship being eaten by NPC blasters.
Œ©Œ
a history |
Sequin
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Posted - 2004.02.18 12:22:00 -
[139]
Quote:
Rofl:), the ability of EVOL members to ignore reality till they are blue in the face never ceases to amaze me:). At the start of the FA/SA/CC/CFS vs CA war EVOL was using this lame "tactic" and of course as usual were denying using it on the boards.
I never said Evol has not done it, but while I have been here I've not been involved with it, shame though, it works so well sometimes:)
On another note, when are you going to stop being a forum warrior and actually do something ingame Iluyen? Or has CA forgotten all about little old us:P
^A Raem Civre Original
EVE-Trade, for your buying and selling needs. A Voogru original.
[i]Redon > evol and mass have a GM helping them with everything
Redon > notice how they always get ships replaced and none of us cant <--- Hurray for teamwork!
b]
We are evil exploiters! |
VeNT
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Posted - 2004.02.18 12:49:00 -
[140]
the way i see it we would be better off with a system like in the beta when you log in, and didn't dock before logging off, you spawn randomly in space
problem solved
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Iluyen
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:05:00 -
[141]
Quote:
Quote:
Rofl:), the ability of EVOL members to ignore reality till they are blue in the face never ceases to amaze me:). At the start of the FA/SA/CC/CFS vs CA war EVOL was using this lame "tactic" and of course as usual were denying using it on the boards.
I never said Evol has not done it, but while I have been here I've not been involved with it, shame though, it works so well sometimes:)
On another note, when are you going to stop being a forum warrior and actually do something ingame Iluyen? Or has CA forgotten all about little old us:P
You mean you wan't me to spend all night watching EVOL sit in safespots and warp in at 120-150km every hour again? Nah thanks, been there dont that and it got old pretty quickly. How did you guys put it again, I think it was engaging in fair fights is 'not efficient':).
I get plenty of kills ingame thankyouverymuch. I just don't transform them all in BS and multiply them with 4 then post them on these boards.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:06:00 -
[142]
You guys are so constructive... it's unbelievable
Mai's Idealog |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2004.02.18 13:11:00 -
[143]
I don't like the idea of ships going anywhere if someone logs. If they log, they SHOULD lose the ship.
As for cheesy log-in tactics, make ship weapons take 15-20 seconds to come online when you log in and are in space. I can't really think of a legitmate drawback to that (as it IS only 15-20 seconds), but it'd let someone who was ambushed by the tactic warp away.
"As far as I can tell, It doesn't matter who you are, If you can believe there's something worth fighting for " - Garbage, "Parade" |
XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.02.18 15:05:00 -
[144]
The best resolution I heard so far was leaving the signature of a ship in space, means those "cloaked" - offline ships would appear on the scanner.
No penaltity needed then and everyone would know how many other ppl are waiting for you there.
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Thrak
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:34:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Thrak on 18/02/2004 17:36:05
Yeah that would be easy to implement too. After log off have, say, a signature remain telling people of your presence in system for four hours after which it disappates. Make it dissapate so that someone who logged off and went on holiday or who has been logged off for a week doesn't boost numbers artificially.
You could even have people who have just logged off give a greater signature - so if say 6-7 pilots log off within 3 minutes of each other it would be pretty damn obvious. |
Reiisha
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Posted - 2004.02.18 17:46:00 -
[146]
Quote:
Quote:
ON A SIDE NOTE: Starvos you INVENTED the "use your alt to scout" then "have your logged off buddies logg on when the numbers are advantageous" routine. So dont even play innocent or honourable; you are niether. You did this routine CONSTANTLY in your invasion of Fountian. Heck, we even KNOW you have Teamspeak spies monintoring other teamspeak channels to get an idea of activity which is COMPLETELY using out of game mecahnics for intel as opposed to just enhancing communication.
What's wrong with spying? If you have a huge alliance and want the advantages that having a huge alliance brings you, you must accept the fact that there can and will be espionage.
Why is scouting 'cheating', walking into traps and blockades with your battleship isn't overly smart.
Don't complain when people play the game in a smarter fashion than yourself.
No objection to the espionage, however, using alts to do it is an out-of-game way to get the info you want. Bribing members of the alliance is quite ok, that adds some flavour to the game, but using alts to spy, or to help in any kind of logon tactic may be considered an exploit, as it provides a semi-out of game way to give you advantages. This can't be prevented, only with limiting the number of characters per account to 1, but that would not be appreciated by the overwhelming majority in EVE.
Ah well, this thread is about the logon tactic, and for that, i already gave my opinion about that 
Gamersland.nl, DE site voor PC gaming! |
toaster
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:38:00 -
[147]
Quote:
heh it's a lame tactic and it works, never assume someone is 'alone' =]
yep, agreed.
does it suck? yes. Is it unfair? no. You just have to be awake and checking local at all times and be prepared to bug out. It's not an exploit, but simply current game mechanics.
I disagree with the 'no-logging-off-in-space' thing, as many people have real life situations they have to deal with at times. It would be nice to have some kind of fix though, like maybe when you logon in space you have no shields and 1/4 capacitor left or something like that. Not many people would have the stones to attack an opponent with a logon attack if they had 1/4 cap left.
------------------------------------------------
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.02.18 18:57:00 -
[148]
You can look at it anyway you want but the simple fact is that this is bad for pvp. It's bad enough to be the one jumping/warping in to more or less even odds but now you don't know how many allies are logged off waiting to jump in.
This tactic quite simply deter people from attacking even when numbers are in their favor.
__________
Capacitor research |
Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:03:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Ruffles on 18/02/2004 19:28:42
Perhaps a lesson from the DAoC world.
On the PvP servers there, if you logged in you had an immediate short term immunity, preventing your engaging in actions against anyone else, and them engaging in any against yourself.
I think its more on the "You can't engage anyone" side that we are looking.
Whilst some people are imaginative in their approaches, this is a very sad adaption of another game mechanic into something else.
Personally, I think the ships shouldn't disappear in space. It would be very risky to just leave ships logged out in space near gates/stations, etc.
Edit:
Sadly, you can't log in again in two minutes on dial-up. If you are unlucky enough to get the "GOT UNITS" etc download of whatever cache is getting refreshed, it will be at least 6-7 minutes before you are at the normal screen again.
Quote:
in war and pirating all tactics are ok!
I hate to break it to you bud, but people are abusing the kind views of the programmer. Your ship would still float around in space if you decided to take a sleep, its not going to becoming instantly invisible and prevent anything and instantly allow you to reappear fully prepared for combat.
Using the ultimate form of invisibility, during which time you are logged off and CANNOT be attacked, and suffer no penalty for your cloak.
Get a grip, this isn't honourable and it most definately isn't a tactic, its abuse of that kind programmers intentions.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:39:00 -
[150]
Ruffles I donŠt think anything like that is necessary. Any form of penalty, immunity or whatever immeadiately breaks the immersion of the game IMHO. It just instantly makes you realise you're playing a game. Know what I mean?
By leaving a ship's signature in space when someone logs off, you give people the opportunity to watch out for themselves, simply by using the scanner.
When you're not sure if that one pilot at the gate is really alone, you could warp to a planet close to it and do a ranged scan. Then, when you see 15 ships on the scanner but only one of them is in local, you know that those guys might be waiting for you on TS.
By coming up with some form of immunity or penalty, you immediately penalise those who CTD or have other issues... and you create exploit-vulerabilities because peoeple will always find loopholes or workarounds in systems like these.
No game mechanic can ever beat your instinct. Leaving ship signatures of logged off ships visible on scanner would enable you to use your instinct and be safe that way. Additionally, scouts would have one more role to play.
Mai's Idealog |
BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:53:00 -
[151]
Quote:
When you're not sure if that one pilot at the gate is really alone, you could warp to a planet close to it and do a ranged scan. Then, when you see 15 ships on the scanner but only one of them is in local, you know that those guys might be waiting for you on TS.
By coming up with some form of immunity or penalty, you immediately penalise those who CTD or have other issues... and you create exploit-vulerabilities because peoeple will always find loopholes or workarounds in systems like these.
No game mechanic can ever beat your instinct. Leaving ship signatures of logged off ships visible on scanner would enable you to use your instinct and be safe that way. Additionally, scouts would have one more role to play.
What about when those 15 guys in local are in a safespot out of your scanner range, and have 15 cruisers and frigates logged off near a gate to trick you?
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Dust Puppy
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Posted - 2004.02.18 19:59:00 -
[152]
You know when a tactic is cheap when the whole m0o corp call it a cheat (no offense guys )
__________
Capacitor research |
Omniwar
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:05:00 -
[153]
Quote:
written by Joshua Calvert RUS do it, Evol do it, even m0o are accused of doing it,
Let's all do it, let's log on and gank!!!*
That is some huge diffirence being accused of something and actually do it, no one has said m0o used this against them since we dont do this kinda tricks, it but many seem to think we use all the tricks in the book without having no knowlage of it what so ever, reason we dont do it is because it lacks the fun factor wich we are looking for.
Spawn of the Devil
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.18 20:08:00 -
[154]
Quote:
What about when those 15 guys in local are in a safespot out of your scanner range, and have 15 cruisers and frigates logged off near a gate to trick you?
Logged off ships woulndŠt appear on local as their owner isnŠt logged in. A simple comparison of ships on scanner vs people in local would do the trick.
Mai's Idealog |
Gan Howorth
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Posted - 2004.02.18 21:19:00 -
[155]
You cant match ships to people in local chat if they are outside you scanner range. The proposed trick would work as described.
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Cherok
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Posted - 2004.02.18 21:46:00 -
[156]
I don't see why everyone has to make this so complicated by disabling high slots and such...just make it so you can't target anything for 2-3 mins when you log into space.
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BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.02.18 21:52:00 -
[157]
Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 18/02/2004 22:07:45
Realized I wasnt being real clear. Alliance B is in system with 15 battleships. They feel like theyre more inexperienced than Alliance A, and dont want an even fight. At the moment they believe they outnumber A because their scout sees 6 scorps in the next system.
Their scout in the system where the large groups are currently sitting sees 18 ships on scanner - a megathron, 2 apocs, a lot of indies and stabbers, some noob ships. "Ah, a mining group! Those pussies arent fighting with miners on! Lets organize to attack the 6 next door!" A logged out their alts as a trap, expecting a fight in this system (easy for regional alliances like FA or CA, where the same system is fought over damn near every single day)
The 6 heavily tanked scorps from A jump in, B moves in for the kill. A warps their 18 battleships 16 AU from their safespot to the fight, and the inexperienced B is slaughtered.
****ed off, they ***** and moan for weeks
Extreme example, I suppose, but possible, just saying the idea of seeing logged out ships has holes in it. The scanner shouldn't be needlessly complicated
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 01:08:00 -
[158]
Well I do not think this happens alot, So i believe that ccp should look at every case. And ban the offending players. I know that bladerunners have done it on several occasions in the past weeks. Its quiet funny when attacking a force that outnumbers us 5-4, to then realise that they in fact out number us more like 13/14-4. I laugh only that it is extremely cowardly and usually comes from the people who call me a coward for not facing them 2-1.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.19 03:51:00 -
[159]
Quote:
Extreme example, I suppose, but possible, just saying the idea of seeing logged out ships has holes in it. The scanner shouldn't be needlessly complicated
In the system I described, every ship the owner of which logged off in space leaves its signature in space. If youŠd log off your alt while mining a scout would still detect your second ship.
There's nothing my scanner doesnŠt find. If that trick you described works in any way, it works because the scout did a bad job and didnŠt scan the entire system before giving the "go" for his fleet.
Mai's Idealog |
BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 07:34:00 -
[160]
How are they going to be found if theyre sitting in a spot thats outside scanner range of every object in the system, and that isnt between any 2 spots?
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Fester Addams
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Posted - 2004.02.19 09:52:00 -
[161]
First I would like to point one thing out, when you log off in space your ship is suposed to remain in space for a duration, Im not 100% sure how long this is but the figure 2min keeps popping up in my head.
If you CTD you should be more than able to log in again in under 2 min wich would meen as long as your ship remains in space nione of the below cases will apply.
Now then, man y ideas have come up on this topic and the ones I like the best would be the following:
If you log out in space you should, after the ship dissaperes, be considered to be using a cloaking device, ie at 0% shields and 10% cap when you log back in. considering the autocloak being active for 1 min will meen that if you log in in the middle of hostiles you can play it safe and wait for almost a minute before trying to escape allowing cloaks and cap to recharge, you would however be weak from a PvP/PK point of view.
It would in little of no way affect a player who for long periods play far out in 0.0 logging in space as recharging cap and shields in safety takes at most 5 min.
The map should show people logged out in space, lets call it ghost ships, after you log out your ships signature leaves a ghost signature in space for a duration wich the map will show, just add in a new tab displaying ghost ships and there is no hiding 10 ships as loged out ships unless you hide them 10+ hours in advance of the event...
And well lets face it, if you have the patience to plan 10 hours in advance you deserve the bonus.
2 simple and easily implemented features (ok the map thingie may be a bit difficult if the core programing is not good) that would make loging out in space workable for the 0.0 player and enough penalty to end the loging out at gate tactics.
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Dukath
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:34:00 -
[162]
Quote:
Edited by: LargeNuts on 16/02/2004 00:04:33
This is simply the most idiotic ability to exploit in any game in history, it is ruining the game, ruining Fleet Tactics, ruining the ability for Corps to protect thier space.
Fix this CCP. Being in a fight at a gate after a well thought out and scouted attack only to be ganked by 10 BS out of nowhere is completely stupid. At least put people way out at the edge of the systems they are in when logging of, or make a no-fighting time of 3 minutes after logging in. This would discourage people from logging in at the gate in mid battle.
The map is WORTHLESS because tje "Number of Pilots in Space" is completely innacurate. Why not add "Logged off players in space"? Until you do, the map is a joke.
I am completely disgusted with this.
Adjusted topic from all caps...
- Lomithrandra
I have to say i am completely disgusted by your accusation. You SAW us pass through to the next system where 4 of your alliance members were. They were at a safespot so we decide to turn back to the station system. I was ahead with an interceptor and i scrambled you and the rest of the group WARPED IN FROM THE OTHER GATE since they only jumped back in from the next system. Maybe next time you shouldn't smack talk when we pass through cause it always gets back to you :p Please stop lying when you get killed because of your own stupidity, it really doesn't suit you.
EVOL does NOT log off at gates or at stations. As to the map being useless, thats your opinion, its not our fault that you can't read the map properly.
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Helgu
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:59:00 -
[163]
To add my voice of opinion about this tactic ... It's anoher example of lame gameplay that seems to infest online games in general. If someone can gain an advantage in any way they will.
If asked whether this activity was exploiting then I would answer yes. I cannot see that the game was designed to be played in this way.
How about a fix? Simple is usually best. Leave logged out people's ships in space. I know this may well lead to people losing more ships to CTDs, but the introduction of the base level free insurance, increasing stability, player owned structures, the increase in the "immersion" and reduction in lame play would, in my opinion, be well worth it. I would even be in favour of logged out people's ships being boardable hehe, but I guess that's a topic for another discussion.
Make it so logged out people's ships remain in space. |
LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.19 13:18:00 -
[164]
Quote:
Quote:
Edited by: LargeNuts on 16/02/2004 00:04:33
This is simply the most idiotic ability to exploit in any game in history, it is ruining the game, ruining Fleet Tactics, ruining the ability for Corps to protect thier space.
Fix this CCP. Being in a fight at a gate after a well thought out and scouted attack only to be ganked by 10 BS out of nowhere is completely stupid. At least put people way out at the edge of the systems they are in when logging of, or make a no-fighting time of 3 minutes after logging in. This would discourage people from logging in at the gate in mid battle.
The map is WORTHLESS because tje "Number of Pilots in Space" is completely innacurate. Why not add "Logged off players in space"? Until you do, the map is a joke.
I am completely disgusted with this.
Adjusted topic from all caps...
- Lomithrandra
I have to say i am completely disgusted by your accusation. You SAW us pass through to the next system where 4 of your alliance members were. They were at a safespot so we decide to turn back to the station system. I was ahead with an interceptor and i scrambled you and the rest of the group WARPED IN FROM THE OTHER GATE since they only jumped back in from the next system. Maybe next time you shouldn't smack talk when we pass through cause it always gets back to you :p Please stop lying when you get killed because of your own stupidity, it really doesn't suit you.
EVOL does NOT log off at gates or at stations. As to the map being useless, thats your opinion, its not our fault that you can't read the map properly.
Look, your corp lost credibility long ago, so deny it until you are blue in the face but it seems most people in this thread already know of Evols lame tactics.
Can't blame you for tyring to deny it. If CCP takes away this ability, you will have nothing.
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XpoHoc
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Posted - 2004.02.19 13:18:00 -
[165]
Edited by: XpoHoc on 19/02/2004 13:18:39
Quote:
How are they going to be found if theyre sitting in a spot thats outside scanner range of every object in the system, and that isnt between any 2 spots?
Being out of scanner range means they would need to warp to you first. That's something different than if 12 ships appear right next to you having you scrambled in no time.
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MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.19 14:07:00 -
[166]
Quote:
How are they going to be found if theyre sitting in a spot thats outside scanner range of every object in the system, and that isnt between any 2 spots?
I donŠt know about you, but being in a battlegroup of 6 and seeing 15 people logging in at once would immediately ring all my alarm bells. IŠd be out of reach faster than you can press the warp-button after logging in
Mai's Idealog |
BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 17:44:00 -
[167]
The point of my example was just arguing against seeing logged out ships. The 18 battleships were in local the entire time, but they had logged out alts in scanner range to fool you what types of ships they had. The 6 tanked scorps came to engage the 15 newbies for a bit, then the 18 come out of warp immediately as the 6 are warp scrambling the 15. Not a log in insta-gank, but another dirty trick if you add seeing logged off ships
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OmegaPsycho
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Posted - 2004.02.19 17:51:00 -
[168]
Quote:
Edited by: LargeNuts on 16/02/2004 00:04:33
This is simply the most idiotic ability to exploit in any game in history, it is ruining the game, ruining Fleet Tactics, ruining the ability for Corps to protect thier space.
Fix this CCP. Being in a fight at a gate after a well thought out and scouted attack only to be ganked by 10 BS out of nowhere is completely stupid. At least put people way out at the edge of the systems they are in when logging of, or make a no-fighting time of 3 minutes after logging in. This would discourage people from logging in at the gate in mid battle.
The map is WORTHLESS because tje "Number of Pilots in Space" is completely innacurate. Why not add "Logged off players in space"? Until you do, the map is a joke.
I am completely disgusted with this.
Adjusted topic from all caps...
- Lomithrandra
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Give me what I want and i'll leave....
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Guidelines For opening a "Thread of Smack Talking" on Forums:
a)Have a pic,video or chat log of how u owned the player or Corp. if not then STFU!!! k?
b)If someone has pwned u because u suck at EVE do not come crying to the forums cause NO 1 GIVES A FLYING DUCK!!! k?
c)If someone has "ganked" u "HARD" because of "poor game mechanics" send in a "Petition" don't come crying to forums. k?
d) last but not least, If u do not have something constructive to say on the forums then STFU!! k?
TPOD ALLIANCE is Recruiting....click link for more info. |
OmegaPsycho
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Posted - 2004.02.19 18:00:00 -
[169]
u know this does work both ways right? LargeN
------------------------------------------------
Give me what I want and i'll leave....
------------------------------------------------
Guidelines For opening a "Thread of Smack Talking" on Forums:
a)Have a pic,video or chat log of how u owned the player or Corp. if not then STFU!!! k?
b)If someone has pwned u because u suck at EVE do not come crying to the forums cause NO 1 GIVES A FLYING DUCK!!! k?
c)If someone has "ganked" u "HARD" because of "poor game mechanics" send in a "Petition" don't come crying to forums. k?
d) last but not least, If u do not have something constructive to say on the forums then STFU!! k?
TPOD ALLIANCE is Recruiting....click link for more info. |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2004.02.19 18:07:00 -
[170]
Edited by: MaiLina KaTar on 19/02/2004 18:14:26
Dunno Bob. To me that looks more like a good trick than exploiting game mechanics. Sure, it would be a mean trick but it wouldŠve been fair donŠt you think?. And after all, it would still have been the fault of the scout, because normally when you show-info someone from the scanner, you see the ship's info and the pic of the owner of that ship. "Inactive ships" (those where the owner is logged out) wouldnŠt show you that pic. You could immediately tell whether that ship is active or not.
Whatever... all this would still be much more fair than getting ganked by an uber 'login-squad' within a few seconds, and it would be way better than getting some stupid penalty or invulnerability timer when logging in. That kind of stuff just sucks IMO.
No matter how you look at it, one thing is for sure. Since we came to know this one my pilots never engange someone at a gate. Actually, they will never engage anyone no matter where as long as we arenŠt 100% sure that there isnŠt any trap set up. ItŠs just lame bs and we donŠt play like that... we donŠt play with people who like doing it because itŠs nothing but lame sh.. for weak players.
Now since we canŠt know all corps and players in this game, we have to assume that everyone will use this trick when we're planning any kind of military ops. Is this good for the game? I guess not. It hurts PvP much more than most people think.
People who pull these kind of tricks are the hardcore campers in FPS-games. TheyŠre the ones any admin will kick off the server in no time. Nobody likes them. They just need it Something must be done against this, because if CCP decide to let lamers go with this one, IŠm outa PvP... that much is for sure.
Mai's Idealog |
BobGhengisKhan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 19:03:00 -
[171]
Edited by: BobGhengisKhan on 19/02/2004 19:03:57
Quote:
And after all, it would still have been the fault of the scout, because normally when you show-info someone from the scanner, you see the ship's info and the pic of the owner of that ship.
No, since the last patch it only does that for people in your grid. My point was to show you shouldn't needlessly complicate the scanner, people like me rely on it too much for you to start ******* around with it
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Tenacha Khan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 19:37:00 -
[172]
Quote:
First I would like to point one thing out, when you log off in space your ship is suposed to remain in space for a duration, Im not 100% sure how long this is but the figure 2min keeps popping up in my head.
If you CTD you should be more than able to log in again in under 2 min wich would meen as long as your ship remains in space nione of the below cases will apply.
Now then, man y ideas have come up on this topic and the ones I like the best would be the following:
If you log out in space you should, after the ship dissaperes, be considered to be using a cloaking device, ie at 0% shields and 10% cap when you log back in. considering the autocloak being active for 1 min will meen that if you log in in the middle of hostiles you can play it safe and wait for almost a minute before trying to escape allowing cloaks and cap to recharge, you would however be weak from a PvP/PK point of view.
It would in little of no way affect a player who for long periods play far out in 0.0 logging in space as recharging cap and shields in safety takes at most 5 min.
The map should show people logged out in space, lets call it ghost ships, after you log out your ships signature leaves a ghost signature in space for a duration wich the map will show, just add in a new tab displaying ghost ships and there is no hiding 10 ships as loged out ships unless you hide them 10+ hours in advance of the event...
And well lets face it, if you have the patience to plan 10 hours in advance you deserve the bonus.
2 simple and easily implemented features (ok the map thingie may be a bit difficult if the core programing is not good) that would make loging out in space workable for the 0.0 player and enough penalty to end the loging out at gate tactics.
Best fix ive seen so far
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SkinnyBish
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Posted - 2004.02.19 19:58:00 -
[173]
Quote:
Quote:
First I would like to point one thing out, when you log off in space your ship is suposed to remain in space for a duration, Im not 100% sure how long this is but the figure 2min keeps popping up in my head.
If you CTD you should be more than able to log in again in under 2 min wich would meen as long as your ship remains in space nione of the below cases will apply.
Now then, man y ideas have come up on this topic and the ones I like the best would be the following:
If you log out in space you should, after the ship dissaperes, be considered to be using a cloaking device, ie at 0% shields and 10% cap when you log back in. considering the autocloak being active for 1 min will meen that if you log in in the middle of hostiles you can play it safe and wait for almost a minute before trying to escape allowing cloaks and cap to recharge, you would however be weak from a PvP/PK point of view.
It would in little of no way affect a player who for long periods play far out in 0.0 logging in space as recharging cap and shields in safety takes at most 5 min.
The map should show people logged out in space, lets call it ghost ships, after you log out your ships signature leaves a ghost signature in space for a duration wich the map will show, just add in a new tab displaying ghost ships and there is no hiding 10 ships as loged out ships unless you hide them 10+ hours in advance of the event...
And well lets face it, if you have the patience to plan 10 hours in advance you deserve the bonus.
2 simple and easily implemented features (ok the map thingie may be a bit difficult if the core programing is not good) that would make loging out in space workable for the 0.0 player and enough penalty to end the loging out at gate tactics.
Best fix ive seen so far
I'll second that. Good solution.
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Xiris
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:25:00 -
[174]
Does it bother anybody else that most of the suggestions here have included a fix based on the fact that the game crashes a lot? Maybe CCP should fix that, too? Just a thought.
There is no shame in ignorance. But refusing enlightenment when it is freely offered? Well, that is just stupid |
Bossan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:05:00 -
[175]
Quote:
Edited by: Sara Kerrigan on 16/02/2004 00:31:57
I agree. Logging into space via TS coordination to gank ships is poor form.
Also I want a fix to alt logging to avoid confrontations. I was in a vigil with warp/web/mwd and captured an indy and demanded a toll. He logged off and onto on alt so fast that his ship was gone from space in under 10 seconds, before my corpmates could finish targeting him to destroy once we saw him leave local.
This sounds very familiar.... oh that's right... A couple of ppl had cornered a member of PAK and lo, he dissapeared and a newbie suddenly showed up in a very low sec system.
So you'd have been happy hor him to loose his ship and be podded
Don't think so |
ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:24:00 -
[176]
Wow, an admitted alt... named largenuts, talking about credibility.
What's next, Stavros and Tank posting about veldspar mining techniques?
You get a big 
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.02.19 22:50:00 -
[177]
Quote:
Does it bother anybody else that most of the suggestions here have included a fix based on the fact that the game crashes a lot? Maybe CCP should fix that, too? Just a thought.
I haven't crashed in a few months...I think a lot of the people that do regularly crash due to things that are their faults rather than ccp, but a crash is a crash.
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.02.20 09:41:00 -
[178]
Edited by: Mitchman on 20/02/2004 09:56:43
Edited by: Mitchman on 20/02/2004 09:56:21
Quote:
Well I do not think this happens alot, So i believe that ccp should look at every case. And ban the offending players. I know that bladerunners have done it on several occasions in the past weeks. Its quiet funny when attacking a force that outnumbers us 5-4, to then realise that they in fact out number us more like 13/14-4. I laugh only that it is extremely cowardly and usually comes from the people who call me a coward for not facing them 2-1.
You are mixing reenforcements jumping thru a gate with login traps. People uncloaking after jumping thru a gate would appear out of nowhere.
And in the incident where you lost 3 battleships, we had 5 BS and 2 cruisers in the gang and you had 4 or 5 battleships.
I wasn't there so I'm counting off one the screenshot:
http://www.eoneer.com/eve/Tundragon1.jpg
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Rual Storge
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Posted - 2004.02.20 17:27:00 -
[179]
Well from being a former GM of Ultima Online I can say for a fact. If it can be exploited it will be exploited. However, log off tactics such as this shouldn't be hard to impliment. The trick is setting up a system where agression on behalf of the logged off player is not possable except when agressed on.
I like the idea of no lock except autolock from log out. A CTD you get your locks back ASAP cause people will have you locked more then likily. While if you log in you get to watch the other ship and if it locks you then alls good, if not you get to watch it do what it wants to do.
As for signatures... I don't know about the rest of you but going into an empire system would result in lag like you've never imagined can you imagine going into ammar and having 200+ ghost sigs on your scanner, granted you can turn it off but that in it's own would get annoying. Plus you see 15 ships logged off at a 0.0 gate and one hostile logged on there. it coulf be a log trap of just that guy logged on right now and they are using the sigs to dispirit you from even attempting to take a chance at the gate.
Although in all honesty anyone who purposely logs our a gate or station in 0.0 space is eigther a fool or an exploiter. there stil occurs the occasional CTD to some people.
Anyway I just wanna see this addressed and fixed in some fashion, hopefully CCP will chose a method they feel is hard to exploit... As some of the ideas just will turn one exploit into another from what I see.
oh BTW *BUMP*
Rual Storge, Battlestars, CEO |
Trillian 427
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Posted - 2004.02.22 03:00:00 -
[180]
Yes, this game has serious problems. I hate the insta gank BS. Fix IT!!!
"Amazing-looking ship, though. Looks like a fish, moves like a fish, steers like a cow."
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.02.24 16:00:00 -
[181]
Quote:
Whilst I have no doubt that evol will rush onto the forums proclaiming their innocence etc etc, the sheer volume of corps, both 'pirate' and otherwise that now have full knowledge of them (ab)using this trick is growing daily.
Suprise, suprise!
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=61718
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2004.02.24 17:25:00 -
[182]
Hi TROLL.
We do not do this. You have never SEEN us do a log off trap. You simple heard we do it... and hell.... that must be true right? So you do it. pfft.
Bladerunners... you have no class, no ballz, and no skill.
You're alliance is dieing.
Grasping at straws?
The gm accusations began yesterday too. Yeah, we never heard that one b4.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Mitchman
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Posted - 2004.02.24 19:12:00 -
[183]
So you're saying you're NOT proclaiming your innocence in that thread? Read what is written first.
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Harry Stoteles
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Posted - 2004.02.24 19:30:00 -
[184]
Those who point their finger at someone and cry 'murder, murder' are often those who hide a bloody knife behind their back.
Have a nice day, citzens.
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pooti
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Posted - 2004.02.24 19:35:00 -
[185]
MEGATHREAD
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Kynoch
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Posted - 2004.02.25 01:07:00 -
[186]
Quote:
MEGATHREAD
LOl! Pooti....your gassy! I just love that name!
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Baleur
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Posted - 2004.02.25 01:28:00 -
[187]
Quote:
Yeah, but if you put in random warp-ins all the gate campers would complain.
LOL, so what?
God i gotta change my sig..
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John Bishop
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Posted - 2004.02.25 04:53:00 -
[188]
Quote:
Hi TROLL.
We do not do this. You have never SEEN us do a log off trap. You simple heard we do it... and hell.... that must be true right? So you do it. pfft.
Bladerunners... you have no class, no ballz, and no skill.
You're alliance is dieing.
Grasping at straws?
The gm accusations began yesterday too. Yeah, we never heard that one b4.
hes heard of you doing it. i on the other hand lost a raven to your evol pioneered ts logged gake gank tactic. it was a while back when this "tactict" was first employed by your corp and by many stainers. anyways its a tactic of cowards, and i vote that CCP makes it an exploit and akes steps in preventing it in the future. i did petetion it but unfortunetly the gm that dealt with it decided it was not an exploit rather it was an underhanded tactic.
_______________________________________________
sorry for the spelling and gramtic errors,,, im a redneck cowboy what did you expect anyways????
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LargeNuts
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Posted - 2004.02.26 21:19:00 -
[189]
Thank you for listening CCP. And a big thank you to the supporters of this thread. Looks like we won and the playing field just got a little more level.
Exploiters Beware!!
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Orestes
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Posted - 2004.02.26 21:20:00 -
[190]
Time to lock this one.
Join the IC! |
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