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Montara Beach
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Posted - 2007.09.26 01:18:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Montara Beach on 26/09/2007 01:18:05
I think anyone who has ever played EVE will agree that CCP has created one of the most fantastic PvP systems ever seen in an MMO. However, as someone who actively participates in this aspect of the game, I have recently noticed that the balance of PvP has become extremely insincere and not at all intimate or engaging. I'm not talking about ships, races, griefing, spying, cheating, or anything like that. I am talking about how easy it has become to avoid pvp, how difficult it has become to find non-blob pvp, and how many frustrated players find themselves flying around in their well-crafted and calculated combat ships only to find that there are no targets to be found.
Anyone who is involved in PvP regularly has had this experience; someone is ratting in a belt with a ship of a similar class to yours. You warp to them, wanting to test your mettle and hopefully get a kill because you have spent so much time researching setups and buying modules. You engage them, exchange fire, and local jumps up to 20. 1, 2 , 6, 10, 20 show up in the asteroid belt, then you're in a POD, then you're in a station. I applaud all the individuals who can say "GF" in local after something like this...I think it's ****. People always talk how dishonorable theft and scamming are, and yet in order to be a successful pvper, you have to be a liar. You must hide your numbers, disguise your intentions, and have a very precise understanding of aggression timers and docking ramps. This is really not CCP's fault at all; the pvp community has just evolved so much that they have learned to take advantage of game mechanics that really take a lot of the intelligence out of PvP. If you disagree with me, think of the last 100 pvp encounters you've had; how many of them were blob fights where numbers was the only factor and your PvP experience didn't mean **** since you had 20-500 ships shooting you. Now how many of them were fights where you met someone on relatively even ground or at a slight disadvantage where the fight could go either way and you really felt your heart beating because you knew you would probably loose but you still had a good chance of winning...a situation that wasn't completely hopeless OR guaranteed...even the '03 players can remember the adrenaline from their first encounters in what I would call "good fights". Am I crazy or does anyone else relate?
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Montara Beach
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Posted - 2007.09.26 01:20:00 -
[2]
My proposal would be to get rid of the mechanics that allow players to so accurately and easily asses the risks of a particular engagement and then to escape if they want to. The first mechanic is the LOCAL CHANNEL [1-1000]. What is the point in a 14 AU scanner? If you see someone with a 90 million isk bounty on their head and a -10 sec status and you're ratting with half a brain, are you really going to stay in that belt? What if you're in a system that is 160 AU in diameter and 100 people jump into local, from goons/BoB/RA/take your pick, are you gonna keep on mining? There is a group of macroers I pass all the time...they are in the same spot everyday...I've passed them with dictors, probing ships (i'm at just over 60 seconds for probe time), inties, whatever tackle/recon ship you want and however many corp mates you want, and they are still impossible to catch because all they have to do is keep local open and then warp to a distant SS and log off upon entering warp. Meanwhile, they avoid all the danger of 0.0 while still getting wealthier 23 hours a day. Any player could do this, although some actually have the courage to just throw down and fight,....they usually get ganked by huge gangs. The only way to REALLY get someone is if they are A) new B) careless C) intoxicated....you have to get LUCKY, skill has nothing to do with catching someone. If someone doesn't want to be caught, they won't be, but they can still actively play in low sec and 0.0 and there is ultimately nothing anyone can do about it. I realize plenty of people are getting killed in EVE, but I'm not talking about the big wars or the exceptional pvpers/pirates, I'm talking about the majority of regular-pvp-weekend warriors. In my experience, people are less concerned about loosing or winning and more concerned about having good fights that give them a rush.... I'm curious to hear what others think of this.
The other proposal is kind of extreme; get rid of 3/4's the stations in low sec.
I'm sorry this is kind of a sloppy post...I'm ditching ECON right now. These are just ideas to inspire some thought on the matter because I get the impression a lot of the PvP community is frustrated, I know I am. 
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Who Flungpoo
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Posted - 2007.09.26 01:47:00 -
[3]
how about no scotty *dr. evil voice
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente
Blood Corsair's
The Red Skull
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:00:00 -
[4]
eve-search.com
Learn it, live it, love it.
Bellum Eternus
[Vid]Blood Corsairs - Day One |
Crazy Broad
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:14:00 -
[5]
God.. no.. just.. no.
Welcome to 2 weeks ago btw.
------------------------------
 Originally by: Captian Internet
This thread isn't delivery its digorno
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Mr Broker
Station Gremlings
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:22:00 -
[6]
sure, but increase npc bounties so it's worth ratting, and not lagging down empire with more mission running
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sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:23:00 -
[7]
lol test you mettle against an npc killing set up
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
Opinionated Git
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:24:00 -
[8]
Alright, my 2 cents:
The main reason not to remove local is to stop people forming 15 stealth bomber gangs without warning to anyone who is in the system. EVE would become too much a cloaky game, it is already gone that way a little since the introduction of Recons and probably even more so when Black Ops Battleships come out.
So the solution then is, local should show people on the same grid. Outside of the grid you're on, people would only appear if they said something first.
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sableye
principle of motion
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:28:00 -
[9]
btw I've seen no local and it won't work, I was there during the patch that removed it and why I was innorad at time came out on top that was because we knew roughly were our enemies would be we struck major victories that day because of no local. That was fun for short period of time and I am not against say communication blackouts occasionally but truth be known no local gives all benefits to attackers and kill defenders. If this took place sure we'd still live out in 0.0 but we'd all run missions in high security for isk, running missions at momant inhigh security is probbaly about same isk as 0.0 anything to push balance towards empire is not welcome.
Join The Fight With Promo Today |
Kritinana
Minmatar
Dark Empire Fleet
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:36:00 -
[10]
How 'bout posting in one of the other 50 bfarglmopillion 'nerf local' threads.
Honestly, we need a "I suck at </whatever> please nerf </whatiblameformesucking>" forum section to contain all that we wish to ignore.
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Lavinrac Krad
Caldari
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:47:00 -
[11]
Might as well also get rid of population statistics on the map as well. Stats like: # of People Poded, Population, # of Jumps, Cryos, and anything else that tracks mundane PC activity.
Oh and get rid of the Autopilot option "avoid systems in which there was a kill."
-Sig Starts-
Why donÆt you show us on the dolly where the bad miner touched you. -Thesas
THE NERF BAT COMETH! REPENT SINNER!
--If I were god, then I'd nerf mice and men, like in that sayin |
Jack Jombardo
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Posted - 2007.09.26 02:58:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Montara Beach
Now how many of them were fights where you met someone on relatively even ground or at a slight disadvantage where the fight could go either way and you really felt your heart beating because you knew you would probably loose but you still had a good chance of winning...a situation that wasn't completely hopeless OR guaranteed
never!
either they show up in superior ships EVEN if you tell them what you fligh or they show up in much larger numbers.
well, i'm just a Rookie, so what do i know
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Malachi Nefzen
Caldari
Insane Decision
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Posted - 2007.09.26 03:01:00 -
[13]
local = junk
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IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
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Posted - 2007.09.26 03:18:00 -
[14]
Just make 'local' a chat window that shows the # of people in system, not WHO is there, just the current # of people online.
A fair compromise?
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Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2007.09.26 03:30:00 -
[15]
Without local if i'm ratting i'd have my ship scanner open and scanning every 5 seconds to see what's flying about. Not my idea of a good time to have to click on it like some paranoid lunatic meanwhile trying to take down an NPC. And you know what, I'm not going to get caught while I make money, other like me are not going to get caught, and ISK farmers will do the same thing and are not going to get caught. Only thing that changes here is that everyone will have their ship scanner open and scanning all the time which actually might increase lag.
guide to game time codes |
IceAero
Amarr
Shadow Company
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Posted - 2007.09.26 03:32:00 -
[16]
I really really really think the scanner should just auto refresh once per second or two, easy solution to that.
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Butter Chicken
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:03:00 -
[17]
Why don't you super pvp'ers who don't want local just hide member list? Then you only know how many are in local but not how many are hostiles, neutrals or friendlies.
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Tortun Nahme
Minmatar
Heimatar Services Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:04:00 -
[18]
i think the forums are broken, they keep regurgitating the same whines
1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo. |
Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:33:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
i think the forums are broken, they keep regurgitating the same whines
Squeaky wheel gets the grease
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Dred'Pirate Jesus
Amarr
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:36:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
i think the forums are broken, they keep regurgitating the same whines
Squeaky wheel gets the grease
Urban Myth..
Originally by: David Hackworth
ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
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Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:38:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus
Originally by: Captian Internet
Originally by: Tortun Nahme
i think the forums are broken, they keep regurgitating the same whines
Squeaky wheel gets the grease
Urban Myth..
Non greased wheel then proceeds to cause damage to the machinery then
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Shoukei
Boobs Ahoy
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Posted - 2007.09.26 04:38:00 -
[22]
removing local will be the best thing ever. suck it up and adapt.
here be signatures! |
Leighanne
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Posted - 2007.09.26 06:59:00 -
[23]
I think this whol removing local rubbish people keep going on is seeded in the fact that other MMO's don't have a 'local'
iirc WOW doesn't have a local.
This is fine for games like this - but the biggest thing your not realising is that removing local 100% unbalances in favour of people looking for ganks.
Miners don't know where gankers are going to be but the gankers sure has hell know exactly where the miners are going to be - infact they even have an icon avaliable anywhere in the system that tells them were miners are going to be.
Personally I have no problem with removing local as long as you also remove ALL static warp to points in every system as well.
This would more closely relate to the 'wow' type scenario where you just happen to be running through the woods and come across someone. Rather then the EVE scenario where gankers jump into system (A) randomly - warp to a belt and catch miners/ratters with their pants down 100% of the time.
If gankers had to 'randomly' come across other players and other players could theoretically see them coming from at least the edge of the grid then removing local would be warrented. I think this is what CCP is heading for with all their exploration stuff btw so the gankers might get a balanced version of their wish in the future.
However for the mean time simply removing local completely screws up balance in favour of gankers.
- Leighanne
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Lacco
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Posted - 2007.09.26 07:09:00 -
[24]
so Montara, it seems that you are first of all worried about not having good fights. well I can tell you that there are plenty of those around. one and probably the most important thing you should do before engaging anyone is scouting. when you know the hostile count at the range of, lets say, 1-2 systems, you know in advance if your going to be blopped.
however, i don't exactly know what kind of good fight you are looking for. first you are worried of blops and the next thing you moan about are the countless ravens macroing all around the space. you want to fight them or what? I wouldn't expect an exciting fight versus a ratting raven anyway...
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2007.09.26 07:32:00 -
[25]
Im sorry, could not be bothered to read it all, but one thing is sure: Local have been around since the very beginning. If the PvP is broken because of it, the PvP have always been broken. But we all agree the PvP have been one of the things EVE have been quite good on. Fantastic really, so my question is: Aint you making up more trouble then neccesary?
I got a slogan: Dont try to fix anything that aint broken. And removing Local is a feature that will affect the game in so many ways, that we cant really predict all consequenses it will lead to. So unfornately, I have to say no to removing Local, and instead the pirates and the more agressive players who like agressive attacks, should cope with it! We all have done that for 4 years. I dont see this need to change now.
Originally by: Splagada
you're on eve-o, just go for blunt insults and random crap, please!
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Laboratus
Gallente
BGG
League of Abnormal Gentlemen
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Posted - 2007.09.26 07:45:00 -
[26]
How about.
no.
Flat out removing local would kill pvp in this game.
As a piwat, you would never find anyone to kill.
And everyone would make insane blobs, since you could not get reliable intel on enemy strength, so you would assume everyone brought their maximum strength, so you bring yours.
It would suck, big time.
___
P.S.
Post with your main.
Mind control and tin hats |
Cornelius Murphy
Seven.
Enuma Elish.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 07:50:00 -
[27]
Look ma, I'm in a "Remove Local" thread! 
Now, where is that "BoB Conspiracy" thread.........
Seriously, this argument has not just flogged the dead horse, it has well and truly beaten it to an unrecognisable pulp.
My personal choice? Well, as a carebear I am bound to say I like it as it is. So, erm, leave it as it is please 
------------------------------------------
Free BREE for all mod hacks!
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Sokratesz
Paradox v2.0
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.09.26 08:11:00 -
[28]
This comes up eveyr other week.
Originally by: Captian Internet
Did some one say IBTL? because I think I just heard some one say IBTL
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Saint Luka
The Illuminati.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.09.26 09:01:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Saint Luka on 26/09/2007 09:05:05
I dont even want to read your walls of text, this thread has come up time and time again by whiners who wont like the consequences once it actually comes into play.
NO FS. Local is fine.
Edit: Whilst i agree on first thought without absoluetely any pro's and con's it seems like a good idea. Be able to jump into a system without your target knowing your coming! GREAT, ya think?
How about them 15 systems you have to totally check before you get to the 16th which are completely empty, wasting a bit of life, and then when you get to the 16th, he's adapted to the no local and learnt how to use the scanner, so you miss him anyway.
Its a complete horrible idea you need to learn how to look past the end of your nose and actually think about things before you talk.
-
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Lazuran
Gallente
Time And ISK Sink Corporation
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Posted - 2007.09.26 09:20:00 -
[30]
The 2 most broken parts of EVE PVP are:
1) lag
2) logoffski-after-gate-jump-to-clear-aggro-timer
If those are fixed, PVP will be fine. Now it's often frustrating.
isn't it funny how some people advocate both GTC<=>ISK trades and EVE being superior due to its cruelty and costly losses, when they use the former to circumvent the latter?
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