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Presidente Gallente
Pirate Hunters Inc
Exa Nation
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:20:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Presidente Gallente on 28/09/2007 08:25:30
First of all: the concept of a game like EVE has to cause +bad½ and +good½ people. That makes the game so great.
Due the big amount of time you have to spend it's not only a game at the end. That's IMO the reason why some situations end up in bad smack talk time by time going beyond the border. I experienced some pirates who were really nice people when you had a convo with them - let's say about a simple killmail they asked for. Other ones behaved so bad that I started to +hate½ them. But it's a RPG. I like it to be on the game role play level. If someone calls me +hey president as*hole. Come and hunt me!½ it's ok for me because he's just a frakking pirate. That was his rl decision. So what. That makes the game +realistic½. It would ruin the game is a pirate says: +Hey Presidente! I am a pirate but in rl I am really nice and different. So please don't take it serious if I want to kill you!½.
Usual time by time griefers are ofc strange people. But they went into the game, found out something nasty and try to optimize that to kill people there. Since it's not an exploit you always have a chance to find a way to keep away from them or you try to figure out a counter-strategy which needs normally more people. An example was the Cosmos plex in Deltole. Some guys found out how to farm that plex around the clock and they also figured out a nasty remote-NPC-tanking exploit to keep other away from their +territory½. It ended up in agression and hate by other player because due that powerful trick they were behaving very arrogant ofc. The only way to deal with it is: get a same gang together with similar ships and do the same game or just petition the exploit and wait for an update. It took a while but Rev 2.2.2 solved it.
Pure griefers are probably strange rl people. They have fun to just frak up the game fun for others. But I have no problem with those people because in the area where I virtually live griefers will anyway wiped out fast and effective. And I never met any griefers in EVE who were able to ruin my fun.
Pres G
+++ JOIN PAP +++ |
Leora Nomen
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:24:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Leora Nomen on 28/09/2007 08:25:34
 Originally by: Ilvan
Originally by: Leora Nomen
Edited by: Leora Nomen on 28/09/2007 06:15:27
Originally by: Ilvan
I love the psychobabble explanations for 'acting mean' in online games.
No, the guy who blew up your hauler isn't a depraved antisocial freak, he's just a regular guy having fun at your expense. It's a game, nothing you do here will ever really matter, so get over yourself.
You see the question is why would some people want to have fun at expense of others and other players don't require it to have fun playing a game.
Oh, come on. On a certain level everyone in EVE is profiting off of someone else.
Well, except hardcore mission runners, but they're not real people anyways. 
Yes, but you can profit at expense of someone else because you like profit in general, or you can do it on purpose over and over again just because the thought of profiting at another's expense makes you feel good. There are definitely some differences in player psychology involved here and it reflects in the way that people play their chars.
guide to game time codes |
Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:43:00 -
[33]
Originally by: zilllii
considering the type of eve-mails that pirates get from carebears after they have killed the carebears i sometimes wonder who really is the disturbed psycothic weirdo's
QFT...but with exceptions. Some pirates smack hard (not counting playful banter) and some carebears are very cool aswell.
Arek-
"Where are you guys going in your battleships?"
"We are going to camp in Amamake; kill 500 carebears and 1 NPC"
"Why are you gonna kill an NPC?"
"See, nobody cares about the carebears!"
[BEES] |
Thoran Karlien
N.U.R.S.E.
New EVE Rising
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Posted - 2007.09.28 08:58:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Thoran Karlien on 28/09/2007 09:03:19
Interesting link, perhaps more so, than first thought... a follow up link braught up:
Quote:
There is also always a scapegoat leader. This is generally a person everyone dislikes. These people are marginalized and ostracized. Not only does the group choose the scapegoat, but the scapegoat often unconsciously chooses to take on the role.
Which basicly could state, that carebears are the scapegoats of pirates and pirates the scapegoats of carebears. We behave in these terms not only because we want to, but also because the other side expects it from us.
Makes sense at least to me 
Another interesting thing mentioned is the distance from the real people I think.
As an example a little story:
A 12 year old boy had a kitty he loved very dearly. But the kitty died. His father being a lousy parent got him a one month gtc for Eve instead. The boy starts the game, likes it, and starts to persue a happy mining career. After nearly a month of toil he finally get enough isk and skill together to get himself a shiny new cruiser to mine in. The account runs out of time, and the boy want to play again, so he saves his meager pocket money to get just another gtc. First day back he takes his cruiser into a belt and gety blown up because of giggles.
Now I doubt that has happend being a tiny little bit too much but I think you could only blow his little cruiser up if you don't know the boy, the story or have some distance between the boy and yourself. In the extrem end, you are just blowing up another npc for your amusement not a real person.
Edit:
Which is fine by me. Eve is big anough for nearly everybody (don't want my neighbours in here).
But I would like to think that those, who know the boy, the story and really know the boy is crushed, feel it, and still laugh about his anguish, that those are the mental ill griefers. Not the pirates who just like pretty explosions.
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Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:09:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Thoran Karlien
Another interesting thing mentioned is the distance from the real people I think.
As an example a little story:
A 12 year old boy had a kitty he loved very dearly. But the kitty died. His father being a lousy parent got him a one month gtc for Eve instead. The boy starts the game, likes it, and starts to persue a happy mining career. After nearly a month of toil he finally get enough isk and skill together to get himself a shiny new cruiser to mine in. The account runs out of time, and the boy want to play again, so he saves his meager pocket money to get just another gtc. First day back he takes his cruiser into a belt and gety blown up because of giggles.
Now I doubt that has happend being a tiny little bit too much but I think you could only blow his little cruiser up if you don't know the boy, the story or have some distance between the boy and yourself. In the extrem end, you are just blowing up another npc for your amusement not a real person.
this child lives in poverty eating from the garbage and must walk these streets full of broken glass and such everyday with no shoes....but for only $0.75 cents a day you can make a difference, call this blah,blah.......(trying to take the distance and impersonalism out of it), still how many people honestly send money?
I would still blow this kids ship up if he was in lowsec. Why, because he should still know or learn to know risk v. reward and that the world is not an easy place to live. Would I belittle him...no absolutely not. Would I give him advice on how to stay alive or be succesful in EVE, sure if he wanted it. If he threw a fit and decided it was best to attack me verbally then I would simply ignore him and move on.
You encounter all types of people through out your life and the same goes for eve. You can't expect everyone to be level headed or mostly sane for that matter....in the end EVE is a game and comparing it to RL, meh...so I'm done
Arek-
"Where are you guys going in your battleships?"
"We are going to camp in Amamake; kill 500 carebears and 1 NPC"
"Why are you gonna kill an NPC?"
"See, nobody cares about the carebears!"
[BEES] |
Ilvan
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:12:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Leora Nomen
Yes, but you can profit at expense of someone else because you like profit in general, or you can do it on purpose over and over again just because the thought of profiting at another's expense makes you feel good. There are definitely some differences in player psychology involved here and it reflects in the way that people play their chars.
The thought of 'profiting at another's expense' rarely enters into it, frankly. I just see targets as moving, smacktalking asteroids that sometimes fight back. I don't really give much of a damn about their feelings on the matter. Do you care about the potential financial hardships you might be causing when you corner a market? Didn't think so.
Seems to me that you (and a lot of other people, this isn't exactly a new sentiment) need to assign some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better; after all, we can't help it if we're subhuman degenerates, right? I guess it's easier to cope with than the fact that to a pirate, you're just another floating ISK bag waiting to be plundered.
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Thoran Karlien
N.U.R.S.E.
New EVE Rising
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:40:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ilvan
The thought of 'profiting at another's expense' rarely enters into it, frankly. I just see targets as moving, smacktalking asteroids that sometimes fight back. I don't really give much of a damn about their feelings on the matter. Do you care about the potential financial hardships you might be causing when you corner a market? Didn't think so.
Seems to me that you (and a lot of other people, this isn't exactly a new sentiment) need to assign some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better; after all, we can't help it if we're subhuman degenerates, right? I guess it's easier to cope with than the fact that to a pirate, you're just another floating ISK bag waiting to be plundered.
Thank you! That is exactly what the whole text is about. But I couldn't sum it up so neatly. The only thing missing is, that pirates also assign a "personality" to carebears.
And Arekhon:
No need to teach him anything. Just blow him up. It is your "job" or "role" to do so. And that is fine. It only stops being fine, if you enjoy hurting a small boy by blowing up his spaceship.
It is still fine (at least a little bit) if you enjoy a blown up carebears ship and the carebears anguish. I'd say every carebear would feel cheated if the pirate wouldn't laugh about their angiush. Here I am talking about the roles we play in this game, not the RL story that are the persons.
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Arekhon
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.09.28 09:49:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Thoran Karlien
Originally by: Ilvan
The thought of 'profiting at another's expense' rarely enters into it, frankly. I just see targets as moving, smacktalking asteroids that sometimes fight back. I don't really give much of a damn about their feelings on the matter. Do you care about the potential financial hardships you might be causing when you corner a market? Didn't think so.
Seems to me that you (and a lot of other people, this isn't exactly a new sentiment) need to assign some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better; after all, we can't help it if we're subhuman degenerates, right? I guess it's easier to cope with than the fact that to a pirate, you're just another floating ISK bag waiting to be plundered.
Thank you! That is exactly what the whole text is about. But I couldn't sum it up so neatly. The only thing missing is, that pirates also assign a "personality" to carebears.
And Arekhon:
No need to teach him anything. Just blow him up. It is your "job" or "role" to do so. And that is fine. It only stops being fine, if you enjoy hurting a small boy by blowing up his spaceship. It is still fine (at least a little bit) if you enjoy a blown up carebears ship and the carebears anguish. I'd say every carebear would feel cheated if the pirate wouldn't laugh about their angiush. Here I am talking about the roles we play in this game, not the RL story that are the persons.
in retrospect I agree with this statment more than my own.
also QFT on the rest.
Arek-
"Where are you guys going in your battleships?"
"We are going to camp in Amamake; kill 500 carebears and 1 NPC"
"Why are you gonna kill an NPC?"
"See, nobody cares about the carebears!"
[BEES] |
Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:25:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Drasked
Why do you say pirates in the title and griefers in the post? both are diffrent.
The choice of words was deliberate. I used pirates in the title to be journalistic and grab your attention. Then did the tabloid trick of change to the real content in the body of the post.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star.
Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
Devian 666
Sectoid Technologies
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:26:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Justas Fenakertiban
Originally by: Devian 666
While searching for techniques to grief in Hello Kitty Online I found the following link.
Ahhahaha! Hello Kitty griefing FTW!
I'm sure there must be a way to grief people in that game either within the mechanics or through social interation either inside or outside actual game mechanics.
Screw it I'm applying for the beta. There better be a war dec option.
I agree I don't have the features to be a holoreel star.
Most people have missed the point that this is Mobsters Online and that carebears are at the bottom of the foodchain. |
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Raynes Orbis
Gallente
Sanguine Raiders
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Posted - 2007.09.28 10:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Corwain
In fact most pirates are much cooler that the stick-in-their-ass carebears that I know who play only to make virtual money to buy more and more expensive imaginary stuff that inevitably gets blown up. Said person is stupid and thinks for some reason that despite the fact that everything in EVE eventually blows up their stuff won't. They also think that the pirate did it just to make them miserable....
QFT.
All the pirates I know are indeed relaxed, laid back people who like to play the game for enjoyment.
The players who quickly get frustrated and smack away are the carebears.
For some reason they think its everyones moral obligation to respect the ships of others, even when they use a juicy Drake or Brutix to mine in Amamake.
Should they get killed, they start swearing, cursing and sometimes even threatening their killer to pay them a visit and kick their real life asses.
THAT, imo, is the lamer part of EVE society.
-----
Recruitment
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Major Death
Caldari
Space Salvage Incorperated
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:11:00 -
[42]
Trying to categorise all pirates, as one type of player, is pointless. From personal experience and from talking to others you cannot pin a MMOG personality type to any æroleÆ in EVE. Anyway, griefers are more likely to occur in high sec, where they would use obscure game mechanics to make others lives a misery (i.e. bumping for no reason other than to annoy). Griefers get a kick out of ruining the game for others, but in ways that cannot be stopped, i.e. avoid PvP cause you could get beaten.
For example
1.Entering a mission deadspace in low sec and attacking the mission runner(s) û Not griefing, they might kill you instead.
2.Entering a mission deadspace in high sec and stealing the mission runner(s) loot û Not griefing, cause you can get shot.
3.Entering a mission deadspace in high sec and spamming the mission runner(s) with chat type invites to ælock them upÆ û Griefing.
My original sig was 'Enjoy lag free play in a dynamic space MMORPG'. It was removed for lack of EVE content! ;) |
Revenge 1
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Helen Hunts
.
.
.
(Easy pirate escape method: Throw bundle of ISK one way, run like heck the other way while they are distracted by all the zeros)
That is what we call "Paying a Ransom"
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techzer0
IDLE GUNS
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Posted - 2007.09.28 11:57:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Avaricia
Edited by: Avaricia on 28/09/2007 00:36:58
Quote:
But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems, or simply like pretty explosions.
Perfect description of me 
____________________
Hi. I'm not an alt :) |
sue AGPlant
Minmatar
Divine Assembly of Forgotten Travelers
Apoapsis Multiversal Consortium
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Posted - 2007.09.28 12:35:00 -
[45]
the word greefer seems to bring out WAY too much generalisation in this game ie
pirate = greefer
carebear = farts lollypops
this couldent be any less acurate if you stuffed it in a maximum inacuraccy machine but anyway
it has been my experiance that ALL aspects of eve has more than its fair share of greefers i have met the ass hat miner as well as pirate but having said that some of the best people to talk to are pirates that have ether been blown up by me or have just blown me up (asuming i get my pod somewhere safe and talk lol)
the only people i have a bit of a dislike towards are are the "get free **** out of my can" people and corps that dec that 4 man week old corp that hasnt even figured out what the hell a corp is yet (speeking form experiance but were working our way up and last i heard they were all the way down to can fliping for kicks \o/) this is the only thing i concider greefing as it makes people leave before they even had a chance to find out they may actualy like the pvp and or rest of the game.
otherwise as far as im concernd alls fair in love and eve
Quote:
When you leave that hi sec system you may be kissing your teddy bears goodbye for the last time
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ry ry
StateCorp
The State
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Posted - 2007.09.28 13:10:00 -
[46]
Edited by: ry ry on 28/09/2007 13:11:04
everybody knows carebears are the biggest griefers of all.
repeatedly re-pricing buy/sell orders 0.01 isk higher/lower than yours? sell orders for billions rather than millions on the off-chance somebody doesn't count the zeros? sitting in belts all day mining in empire, drones out killing the belt rats so new players can't learn to fight or mine? T2 production cartels keeping the price of ships artificially high? ...the list goes on.
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Omarvelous
Caldari
Destry's Lounge
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Posted - 2007.09.28 13:12:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Omarvelous on 28/09/2007 13:12:48
Originally by: ry ry
Edited by: ry ry on 28/09/2007 13:11:04
everybody knows carebears are the biggest griefers of all.
repeatedly re-pricing buy/sell orders 0.01 isk higher/lower than yours? sell orders for billions rather than millions on the off-chance somebody doesn't count the zeros? sitting in belts all day mining in empire, drones out killing the belt rats so new players can't learn to fight or mine? T2 production cartels keeping the price of ships artificially high? ...the list goes on.
Soo true!
Although I am guilty of market pvping by 0.01 isk  
______________________________________________
Sup brosef!
Destry's Lounge is looking for a few good drunks - contact me in game. |
Captian Internet
Lead Bricks
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Posted - 2007.09.28 13:15:00 -
[48]
Guys don't you know we all live in our mothers attics and get beat up at school
Changes to Local,War ,Navigation Shortcuts |
Corwain
Gallente
Kamite
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Posted - 2007.09.28 16:54:00 -
[49]
Originally by: ry ry
Edited by: ry ry on 28/09/2007 13:11:04
everybody knows carebears are the biggest griefers of all.
repeatedly re-pricing buy/sell orders 0.01 isk higher/lower than yours? sell orders for billions rather than millions on the off-chance somebody doesn't count the zeros? sitting in belts all day mining in empire, drones out killing the belt rats so new players can't learn to fight or mine? T2 production cartels keeping the price of ships artificially high? ...the list goes on.
I normally don't do this, but: Que Eff Tee!
Carebears whine about getting shot at, but they're 10x more brutal with market PvP than pirates are with ship PvP. In the end though all PvP is capitalizing on your opponents mistakes.
--
A Solo Arbitrator vid, Distortion by Corwain |
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Minmatar
mUfFiN fAcToRy
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:08:00 -
[50]
Yeah, some carebears are cool about everything... I found one in a lowsec belt and you all know the story of what happens next, and afterwards I get this...
2007.09.26 00:37
ahh, ok, well seemed i wasn't gonna get away, not anough cap to activate warp stabilizer so i was gonna say -
"WOOHOO first pod death!"
went a little too fast for me... no foreplay i guess... but i'll be back, i don't think i have a choice, must hunt you down someday.
After I got this I actually felt a little bad... got his stab in my hanger though. Hope he makes good on the threat though, the last one didn't. 8 months and I'm still waiting 
Originally by: Liz Kali
Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking
Originally by: TheDagda
*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing
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M'ing Pai
The Really Awesome Players
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:09:00 -
[51]
Didn't you know we're all nuckin futz??????????
http://www.news.com/Inflicting-pain-on-griefers/2100-1043_3-5488403.html
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2004/01/interview_with__1.html
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:N3EdcO2bYFoJ:www.soulcast.com/post/show/89014/Real-World-Calls+psychology+griefers&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=9&gl=us
http://www.microsoft.com/protect/family/activities/griefers.mspx
http://www.msn.staysafeonline.com/teens/whats_hot/no_grief.html
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/08/23/virtual.bullying/
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSN0343424320070705?pageNumber=1
I especially like this quote:
Quote:
A new type of cyberbully known as a griefer is overtaking other forms of aggression on the Internet and in the world of online gaming, a health researcher warned.
To read some of this stuff, you'd think we're a bunch of psychotics, or a rash needing some ointment...
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Wagstaff
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:10:00 -
[52]
Notice the complete lack of any reference to any actual study or evidence in these articles. This isn't science, it's just making *#$% up, no matter how many letters come after somebody's name. Until they have evidence, it's just speculation.
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Avaricia
The Accursed
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:12:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Ilvan
Originally by: Leora Nomen
Yes, but you can profit at expense of someone else because you like profit in general, or you can do it on purpose over and over again just because the thought of profiting at another's expense makes you feel good. There are definitely some differences in player psychology involved here and it reflects in the way that people play their chars.
The thought of 'profiting at another's expense' rarely enters into it, frankly. I just see targets as moving, smacktalking asteroids that sometimes fight back. I don't really give much of a damn about their feelings on the matter. Do you care about the potential financial hardships you might be causing when you corner a market? Didn't think so.
Seems to me that you (and a lot of other people, this isn't exactly a new sentiment) need to assign some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better; after all, we can't help it if we're subhuman degenerates, right? I guess it's easier to cope with than the fact that to a pirate, you're just another floating ISK bag waiting to be plundered.
you win the forums.
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Morbo Rigatoni
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:19:00 -
[54]
Also, someone's got to take the security out of Low Security Space, or it wouldn't be Low on Security.
No one complains when the NPC pirates attack with no motivation other than to make your life difficult. Consider us a feature of the environment. It's our duty to introduce the risk element that makes EVE a "game" (input + luck => output) rather than a "machine" (input => output). We're doing it for you! Anything we get out of it is just gravy.
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Meleia
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Posted - 2007.09.28 17:23:00 -
[55]
"But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems."
Looks like science know where you guys come from eh? LOL
"But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems." |
Xanstin
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.09.28 18:25:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Meleia
"But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems."
Looks like science know where you guys come from eh? LOL
I snort ******* off the bodies of the people I kill. A scientist told me so.
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Neal Cassady
Mutually Assured Distraction
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Posted - 2007.09.28 21:09:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Neal Cassady on 28/09/2007 21:09:42
as a depressed, psychotic, substance abusing pirate i can confirm that all other pirates are exactly like me. 
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Rudy Metallo
The Bastards
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Posted - 2007.09.28 22:00:00 -
[58]
Omg I must be depressed cause I'm a pirate.
Say what? |
Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2007.09.29 02:32:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Neal Cassady
Edited by: Neal Cassady on 28/09/2007 21:19:16
Edited by: Neal Cassady on 28/09/2007 21:09:42
as a depressed, psychotic, substance abusing pirate i can confirm that all other pirates are exactly like me.
EDIT:
I thought i would talk a bit more about this. I would say that articles such as this one are symptomatic of the junk pseudo-science that pervades the social sciences. They have no empirical data, no testable hypotheses, just one jerk with a theory and a soapbox.
This sort of thing is annoying to no end. If I published something of this sort as a paper on, say, algorithms, I'd be ridiculed until people got bored of making fun of me, and then a bit more just for the hell of it. For some reason, when it comes to social sciences (and, partially, medicine, to be honest), it works.
Originally by: Neal Cassady
Now for this jerk's theory, i am currently standing on my soapbox: the people who whine about "griefers" are a product of our pussified, hand-holding sciety. Recently, children in America (and the west in general, i'm sure) are barraged with people telling them how great they are, how special. they are not allowed to fail and see the consequences of their failure. everyone has to play on the soccer team, everyone gets the mvp award at the end of the season.
as a result of this, when said youngster gets into an environment where failure is allowed (real life, eve), they do not know how to handle it. they cry "to teh forums" and whine about warp to zero, privateers, suicide ganks, whatever in their mind caused their failure.
it never crosses their mind that they themselves caused their own failure by being frickin' nubs, because they should succeed just by showing up.
/rant
Nice theory. Now, you only need some letters to your name and a publisher, so we can call it science.
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Adelorae24
Caldari
Racketeers
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Posted - 2007.09.29 02:45:00 -
[60]
I just really don't understand the need of people to associate confrontational behavior ingame with having a mental disorder in real life. I mean if you play a FPS and you shoot the enemy, does that make you psychotic, or otherwise insane?
Part of the game is that if you choose to mine in an unsecured container then you are wide open to acts of theft. But hey... You don't have to mine into a secure can, and I don't have to leave your jetcan alone. If you can't stand the paradox... That is to say... If you can't accept that you have to take steps to protect your interests in this game, then perhaps you should go play another more friendly game.
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