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But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems.

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Originally by: Devian 666

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While searching for techniques to grief in Hello Kitty Online I found the following link.

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undefined

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Griefers are jerks because...

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But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems.

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But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems, or simply like pretty explosions.

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Originally by: Avaricia

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Edited by: Avaricia on 28/09/2007 00:36:58

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But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems, or simply like pretty explosions.

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Originally by: Stephannus Calimben

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i love how the carebears sit in a belt for hours on end watching their cargo hold fill up with ore then dropping it into a can...and us pirates spend our time online seeking hair raising battles and loot

...and yet WE'RE the ones with psychiatric problems.

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Originally by: hellsknights

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Well, carebears molest rocks and psychiatrist molest your head.

Maybe there is a relation here.

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Originally by: Liz Kali

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Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking

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Originally by: TheDagda

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*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing

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Originally by: Darkopteron

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It's just human nature to give grief.

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Originally by: Flinx Evenstar

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Love the new need for speed initiative.

Pilots involved in a fleet battle can post on the forum and get a reply about wha

Originally by: zilllii

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considering the type of eve-mails that pirates get from carebears after they have killed the carebears i sometimes wonder who really is the disturbed psycothic weirdo's

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Originally by: zilllii

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considering the type of eve-mails that pirates get from carebears after they have killed the carebears i sometimes wonder who really is the disturbed psycothic weirdo's

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Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny

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Originally by: hellsknights

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Well, carebears molest rocks and psychiatrist molest your head.

Maybe there is a relation here.

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Fixed

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Originally by: zilllii

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considering the type of eve-mails that pirates get from carebears after they have killed the carebears i sometimes wonder who really is the disturbed psycothic weirdo's

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Originally by: Curzon Dax

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"In search of hair-raising fights" leaves a lot to be desired. Most of today's Eve pirates seem to be the gatecamping kind. That's not in search of much of anything at all.

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Originally by: Ilvan

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I love the psychobabble explanations for 'acting mean' in online games.

No, the guy who blew up your hauler isn't a depraved antisocial freak, he's just a regular guy having fun at your expense. It's a game, nothing you do here will ever really matter, so get over yourself.

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Originally by: Devian 666

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While searching for techniques to grief in Hello Kitty Online I found the following link.

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Originally by: ollobrains

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pirates = griefers the term is used in the same mould by so called pvers

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Edited by: Leora Nomen on 28/09/2007 06:15:27

Originally by: Ilvan

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I love the psychobabble explanations for 'acting mean' in online games.

No, the guy who blew up your hauler isn't a depraved antisocial freak, he's just a regular guy having fun at your expense. It's a game, nothing you do here will ever really matter, so get over yourself.

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You see the question is why would some people want to have fun at expense of others and other players don't require it to have fun playing a game.

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Originally by: Ilvan

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Edited by: Leora Nomen on 28/09/2007 06:15:27

Originally by: Ilvan

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I love the psychobabble explanations for 'acting mean' in online games.

No, the guy who blew up your hauler isn't a depraved antisocial freak, he's just a regular guy having fun at your expense. It's a game, nothing you do here will ever really matter, so get over yourself.

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You see the question is why would some people want to have fun at expense of others and other players don't require it to have fun playing a game.

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Oh, come on. On a certain level everyone in EVE is profiting off of someone else.

Well, except hardcore mission runners, but they're not real people anyways.

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Originally by: zilllii

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considering the type of eve-mails that pirates get from carebears after they have killed the carebears i sometimes wonder who really is the disturbed psycothic weirdo's

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There is also always a scapegoat leader. This is generally a person everyone dislikes. These people are marginalized and ostracized. Not only does the group choose the scapegoat, but the scapegoat often unconsciously chooses to take on the role.

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Originally by: Thoran Karlien

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Another interesting thing mentioned is the distance from the real people I think.
As an example a little story:
A 12 year old boy had a kitty he loved very dearly. But the kitty died. His father being a lousy parent got him a one month gtc for Eve instead. The boy starts the game, likes it, and starts to persue a happy mining career. After nearly a month of toil he finally get enough isk and skill together to get himself a shiny new cruiser to mine in. The account runs out of time, and the boy want to play again, so he saves his meager pocket money to get just another gtc. First day back he takes his cruiser into a belt and gety blown up because of giggles.
Now I doubt that has happend being a tiny little bit too much but I think you could only blow his little cruiser up if you don't know the boy, the story or have some distance between the boy and yourself. In the extrem end, you are just blowing up another npc for your amusement not a real person.

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Yes, but you can profit at expense of someone else because you like profit in general, or you can do it on purpose over and over again just because the thought of profiting at another's expense makes you feel good. There are definitely some differences in player psychology involved here and it reflects in the way that people play their chars.

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Originally by: Ilvan

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The thought of 'profiting at another's expense' rarely enters into it, frankly. I just see targets as moving, smacktalking asteroids that sometimes fight back. I don't really give much of a damn about their feelings on the matter. Do you care about the potential financial hardships you might be causing when you corner a market? Didn't think so.

Seems to me that you (and a lot of other people, this isn't exactly a new sentiment) need to assign some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better; after all, we can't help it if we're subhuman degenerates, right? I guess it's easier to cope with than the fact that to a pirate, you're just another floating ISK bag waiting to be plundered.

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Originally by: Thoran Karlien

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Originally by: Ilvan

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The thought of 'profiting at another's expense' rarely enters into it, frankly. I just see targets as moving, smacktalking asteroids that sometimes fight back. I don't really give much of a damn about their feelings on the matter. Do you care about the potential financial hardships you might be causing when you corner a market? Didn't think so.

Seems to me that you (and a lot of other people, this isn't exactly a new sentiment) need to assign some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better; after all, we can't help it if we're subhuman degenerates, right? I guess it's easier to cope with than the fact that to a pirate, you're just another floating ISK bag waiting to be plundered.

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Thank you! That is exactly what the whole text is about. But I couldn't sum it up so neatly. The only thing missing is, that pirates also assign a "personality" to carebears.

And Arekhon:
No need to teach him anything. Just blow him up. It is your "job" or "role" to do so. And that is fine. It only stops being fine, if you enjoy hurting a small boy by blowing up his spaceship. It is still fine (at least a little bit) if you enjoy a blown up carebears ship and the carebears anguish. I'd say every carebear would feel cheated if the pirate wouldn't laugh about their angiush. Here I am talking about the roles we play in this game, not the RL story that are the persons.

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Originally by: Drasked

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Why do you say pirates in the title and griefers in the post? both are diffrent.

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Originally by: Justas Fenakertiban

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Originally by: Devian 666

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While searching for techniques to grief in Hello Kitty Online I found the following link.

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Ahhahaha! Hello Kitty griefing FTW!

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Originally by: Corwain

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In fact most pirates are much cooler that the stick-in-their-ass carebears that I know who play only to make virtual money to buy more and more expensive imaginary stuff that inevitably gets blown up. Said person is stupid and thinks for some reason that despite the fact that everything in EVE eventually blows up their stuff won't. They also think that the pirate did it just to make them miserable....

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Originally by: Helen Hunts

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.
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(Easy pirate escape method: Throw bundle of ISK one way, run like heck the other way while they are distracted by all the zeros)

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Originally by: Avaricia

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Edited by: Avaricia on 28/09/2007 00:36:58

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But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems, or simply like pretty explosions.

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When you leave that hi sec system you may be kissing your teddy bears goodbye for the last time

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Originally by: ry ry

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Edited by: ry ry on 28/09/2007 13:11:04

everybody knows carebears are the biggest griefers of all.

repeatedly re-pricing buy/sell orders 0.01 isk higher/lower than yours? sell orders for billions rather than millions on the off-chance somebody doesn't count the zeros? sitting in belts all day mining in empire, drones out killing the belt rats so new players can't learn to fight or mine? T2 production cartels keeping the price of ships artificially high? ...the list goes on.

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Originally by: ry ry

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Edited by: ry ry on 28/09/2007 13:11:04

everybody knows carebears are the biggest griefers of all.

repeatedly re-pricing buy/sell orders 0.01 isk higher/lower than yours? sell orders for billions rather than millions on the off-chance somebody doesn't count the zeros? sitting in belts all day mining in empire, drones out killing the belt rats so new players can't learn to fight or mine? T2 production cartels keeping the price of ships artificially high? ...the list goes on.

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Originally by: Liz Kali

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Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking

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Originally by: TheDagda

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*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing

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A new type of cyberbully known as a griefer is overtaking other forms of aggression on the Internet and in the world of online gaming, a health researcher warned.

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Originally by: Ilvan

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Yes, but you can profit at expense of someone else because you like profit in general, or you can do it on purpose over and over again just because the thought of profiting at another's expense makes you feel good. There are definitely some differences in player psychology involved here and it reflects in the way that people play their chars.

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The thought of 'profiting at another's expense' rarely enters into it, frankly. I just see targets as moving, smacktalking asteroids that sometimes fight back. I don't really give much of a damn about their feelings on the matter. Do you care about the potential financial hardships you might be causing when you corner a market? Didn't think so.

Seems to me that you (and a lot of other people, this isn't exactly a new sentiment) need to assign some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better; after all, we can't help it if we're subhuman degenerates, right? I guess it's easier to cope with than the fact that to a pirate, you're just another floating ISK bag waiting to be plundered.

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Originally by: Meleia

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"But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems."

Looks like science know where you guys come from eh? LOL

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Originally by: Neal Cassady

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Edited by: Neal Cassady on 28/09/2007 21:19:16
Edited by: Neal Cassady on 28/09/2007 21:09:42
as a depressed, psychotic, substance abusing pirate i can confirm that all other pirates are exactly like me.

EDIT:
I thought i would talk a bit more about this. I would say that articles such as this one are symptomatic of the junk pseudo-science that pervades the social sciences. They have no empirical data, no testable hypotheses, just one jerk with a theory and a soapbox.

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Originally by: Neal Cassady

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Now for this jerk's theory, i am currently standing on my soapbox: the people who whine about "griefers" are a product of our pussified, hand-holding sciety. Recently, children in America (and the west in general, i'm sure) are barraged with people telling them how great they are, how special. they are not allowed to fail and see the consequences of their failure. everyone has to play on the soccer team, everyone gets the mvp award at the end of the season.

as a result of this, when said youngster gets into an environment where failure is allowed (real life, eve), they do not know how to handle it. they cry "to teh forums" and whine about warp to zero, privateers, suicide ganks, whatever in their mind caused their failure.

it never crosses their mind that they themselves caused their own failure by being frickin' nubs, because they should succeed just by showing up.

/rant

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Edited by: Devian 666 on 28/09/2007 04:26:51
While searching for techniques to grief in Hello Kitty Online I found the following link.

Griefers are jerks because...

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But, the psychiatrist adds that griefers could also just be mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems.

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Edit: For weird undefined quote

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Originally by: Ilvan

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Yes, but you can profit at expense of someone else because you like profit in general, or you can do it on purpose over and over again just because the thought of profiting at another's expense makes you feel good. There are definitely some differences in player psychology involved here and it reflects in the way that people play their chars.

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The thought of 'profiting at another's expense' rarely enters into it, frankly. I just see targets as moving, smacktalking asteroids that sometimes fight back. I don't really give much of a damn about their feelings on the matter. Do you care about the potential financial hardships you might be causing when you corner a market? Didn't think so.

Seems to me that you (and a lot of other people, this isn't exactly a new sentiment) need to assign some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better; after all, we can't help it if we're subhuman degenerates, right? I guess it's easier to cope with than the fact that to a pirate, you're just another floating ISK bag waiting to be plundered.

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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This is an alt obviously. I have a pirate character with a healthy negative sec status. So why would I have a need to assign "some kind of 'antisocial personality' to pirates in order to make yourself feel better"? In other words, how would assigning antisocial personality to myself make me feel better? Lol, this gets better - according to Ilvan, apparently I need to think of myself as a "subhuman degenerate" to help cope myself with the fact that people pirate. Ok ...

You perhaps don't give a damn. But I don't see myself talking about you in specific in any of my posts. Why do you have to get so personal? Make assumptions about me, then assume I am talking about you ... I haven't used the word 'antisocial' or 'human degenerate' anywhere. I said there are differences in psychology of people that make them play the same game differently. You need to learn to read before replying.

When I pvp I see that there are people who seem to get pleasure from their opponents or victims feeling bad. Now I never experienced a need to smacktalk in local. Yet I notice many players in EVE often start talking ****. Usually if they lose, but sometimes even when they win. Why do they do this? Because it gives them pleasure to think that their opponents feel bad due to being insulted. It gives them pleasure to know that another human being playing this game against them feels bad on personal level. Even if they win they want to rub it in. Now I have no idea what makes them want to do this. And I'm not giving any sort of psychoanalysis here - ain't my profession. All I know is that there is a difference between pirates and griefers who need to insult random players they blow to pieces. That difference is in the psychology of players behind the characters.

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Originally by: Ilvan

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[You are the one who brought up the distinction between 'liking profit' and 'liking griefing'. I simply stated that most pirates don't kill for grief. If you truly don't assign such mental characteristics to pirates/PVPers, that's great, but recognize that there are quite a number of people who do. The comments in the linked article should be proof enough of that.

As far as the 'bad winners' go, that's not exactly unique to EVE, or even computer games. It's just good ol' insecurity. I suppose there may be a few hardcore sociopaths in EVE, but the number is probably very low.

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Originally by: Liz Kali

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Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking

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Originally by: TheDagda

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*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing

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Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny

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I like to find a carebear corp filled lowsec system, then I bring in my force recon, go to a ss, cloak and go AFK for a few hours while moving in one direction... they freak out and production stops

I guess I'm just a mean spirited outcast of society that likes to cut myself when I'm on my own like I usually am

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Edited by: Leora Nomen on 28/09/2007 08:25:34

Originally by: Ilvan

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Edited by: Leora Nomen on 28/09/2007 06:15:27

Originally by: Ilvan

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I love the psychobabble explanations for 'acting mean' in online games.

No, the guy who blew up your hauler isn't a depraved antisocial freak, he's just a regular guy having fun at your expense. It's a game, nothing you do here will ever really matter, so get over yourself.

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You see the question is why would some people want to have fun at expense of others and other players don't require it to have fun playing a game.

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Oh, come on. On a certain level everyone in EVE is profiting off of someone else.

Well, except hardcore mission runners, but they're not real people anyways.

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Yes, but you can profit at expense of someone else because you like profit in general, or you can do it on purpose over and over again just because the thought of profiting at another's expense makes you feel good. There are definitely some differences in player psychology involved here and it reflects in the way that people play their chars.

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Originally by: Ascrethy

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"As for a solution, GamePro recommends responding "with compassion", so if you can get a griefer to stop killing you long enough, try to get them on your amateur shrink's couch."


BWHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH


"Please don't kill me I know you only want to hurt me as an expression for the depression inside"




If anyone tries these I forsee a lot of poddings

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Originally by: Liz Kali

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Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking

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Originally by: TheDagda

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*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing

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Originally by: hellsknights

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Hello kitty online is RUTHLESSS!!!!

and the PvP is awesome.

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Originally by: CCP Morpheus

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nerf ccp plz

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Originally by: CCP Oveur

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To the gankmobile!

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Now I never experienced a need to smacktalk in local. Yet I notice many players in EVE often start talking ****. Usually if they lose, but sometimes even when they win. Why do they do this? Because it gives them pleasure to think that their opponents feel bad due to being insulted. It gives them pleasure to know that another human being playing this game against them feels bad on personal level. Even if they win they want to rub it in. Now I have no idea what makes them want to do this.

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Originally by: Karlemgne

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As for people pigeoning you (as you said later on) into a certain type of individual, based on nothing more than what you've said here on this thread, I agree with you. Here in, however, lies the difficulty. Many, many times I have come on to these forums and had some carebear tell me that I am mentally deficient, mentally ill, or just plain sociopathic because I'm a pirate in a game.

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Has it ever occurred to you the smack might just cause the "target" to war dec the smack talkers? If you toss out a gf the "target" will just put it down has has a, well, good fight. But if one throws some smack talk in there (without the good fight comment) one might just get a war dec out of em or at least some mercs comming after your rearend. Hurting someones feelings, or their pride, is a good way to get a war dec out of em. Or have em come out in a CNR to get revenge. That's always funny.

And, yes, some people do find it funny when the smack starts flying. In this game if you don't have a thick skin you will get mad real easy. I have found it rather enjoyable to play the bad guy, mean person, jackass, whatever. It is, after all, just a game. And if your feelings get hurt in an internet game because of what someone did to some pixels you are controlling. Or said something in local to you (a complete stranger who you should not care about at all) causes you to feel bad then you should not be playing a Multiplayer Internet Game.

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Originally by: Liz Kali

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Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking

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Originally by: TheDagda

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*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing

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Originally by: Seviche Phoenix

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I just find it damn funny how the PvPers are complaining about being labeled as mentally-unbalanced griefers. Also humerous is how easily they then shift to complaining about how carebears are generally mentally-unbalanced whiners for focusing on mining, and thus deserving of their rightous PvP wrath.

Always good for a laugh.

Interesting how each side views the other, no?

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Yes, it has occurred to me. And doing that exactly fits the definition of grief play (i hope you aren't in self-denial about it). Of course it is a game, but just because you pay $15 a month doesn't mean you can go ahead and do anything you want and blame other players for not having thick enough skin to get along with you.

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Did you miss the part where I wrote "I have found it rather enjoyable to play the bad guy, mean person, jackass, whatever."? And yes, I pay $15 a month to play the game my way. I could care less about your enjoyment of the game. I could care less if people whom I do not fly with hate me, like me, feel indifferent to me. You are all just pixels on a computer screen to me.

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Originally by: Liz Kali

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Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking

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Originally by: TheDagda

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*click*
For the love of the jovians stops necroing

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Originally by: Speed Devil

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Edited by: Speed Devil on 02/10/2007 23:39:45
i was forced once to be under 30h psychiatric supervision from the judge, so i guess that article might apply to me

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Originally by: Seviche Phoenix

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Did you miss the part where I wrote "I have found it rather enjoyable to play the bad guy, mean person, jackass, whatever."? And yes, I pay $15 a month to play the game my way. I could care less about your enjoyment of the game. I could care less if people whom I do not fly with hate me, like me, feel indifferent to me. You are all just pixels on a computer screen to me.

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So, how does the linked article in the OP not apply to you?

First, you dehumanize the other side. Then it is easy to commit atrocities and feel nothing. Nothing but pixels? Interesting.

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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stuff

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Originally by: Krows

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stuff

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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stuff

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Edited by: Aille Pluthrak on 03/10/2007 02:42:35

Originally by: Seviche Phoenix

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Did you miss the part where I wrote "I have found it rather enjoyable to play the bad guy, mean person, jackass, whatever."? And yes, I pay $15 a month to play the game my way. I could care less about your enjoyment of the game. I could care less if people whom I do not fly with hate me, like me, feel indifferent to me. You are all just pixels on a computer screen to me.

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So, how does the linked article in the OP not apply to you?

First, you dehumanize the other side. Then it is easy to commit atrocities and feel nothing. Nothing but pixels? Interesting.

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Lets see. Because I don't care about peoples feelings in this game when I destroy their pixels then you surmize it would be a hop, skip and a jump for me to commit atrocities and feel nothing? Did you get your psych degree off the back of a match book?

I'm married and feel bad whenever she feels sad. I like dogs (I have 5 in fact). I try not to kill anything (even the bugs on the windshield when car is standing still). Crickets I will kill in a heartbeat. They keep me up at night. And because I have no feelings for the pixels I blast in a computer MMO I am a monster? Wow, just wow.

You are the type of person that makes this game a joy to play.

BTW, had a great day today in game. We had wardecced a corp last Friday (I think it was around Friday). They joined an alliance to get away from us. That alliance helped them not at all because we still visited their home station and killed and poded all we could (along with any of the alliance people we ran across). Granted, we were the last of the corps to war dec em in the past 7 weeks but their CEO told our person who was camping em in today that the corp had had enough and had disentigated with only a handful of people left. In fact they left the alliance after only being in there for two days. They got out of the last two days of the war dec that way. So you could say we "griefed" em to the point where the corp might just disband. Am I sad that we (my corp) may have had a hand in this? No. I am happy and rather proud.

This game is not for the weak. This game is not for people with short attention spans. This game is not for the people who want things now. That old saying "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" comes to mind.

Have a nice day.

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Originally by: Lavraen

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Yeah I've heard you on vent and read your posts on the RAK forum and you seem like a jackass in real life to be honest.

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Edited by: Aille Pluthrak on 03/10/2007 15:35:49
Edited by: Aille Pluthrak on 03/10/2007 15:31:24

Originally by: Lavraen

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Yeah I've heard you on vent and read your posts on the RAK forum and you seem like a jackass in real life to be honest.

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I meant what I said concerning Raven. If he had said at any time to kill your ship and pod you I would have done it without a second thought. You do a good impersonation of a jackass yourself Lav. I actually had to talk Mave out of podding you one night. Imagine that.

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Lets see. Because I don't care about peoples feelings in this game when I destroy their pixels then you surmize it would be a hop, skip and a jump for me to commit atrocities and feel nothing? Did you get your psych degree off the back of a match book?

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Quote:

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I'm married and feel bad whenever she feels sad. I like dogs (I have 5 in fact). I try not to kill anything (even the bugs on the windshield when car is standing still). Crickets I will kill in a heartbeat. They keep me up at night. And because I have no feelings for the pixels I blast in a computer MMO I am a monster? Wow, just wow.

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Quote:

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You are the type of person that makes this game a joy to play.

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Quote:

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This game is not for the weak. This game is not for people with short attention spans. This game is not for the people who want things now. That old saying "If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen" comes to mind.

Have a nice day.

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Originally by: Lavraen

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Edited by: Aille Pluthrak on 03/10/2007 15:35:49
Edited by: Aille Pluthrak on 03/10/2007 15:31:24

Originally by: Lavraen

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Yeah I've heard you on vent and read your posts on the RAK forum and you seem like a jackass in real life to be honest.

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I meant what I said concerning Raven. If he had said at any time to kill your ship and pod you I would have done it without a second thought. You do a good impersonation of a jackass yourself Lav. I actually had to talk Mave out of podding you one night. Imagine that.

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Hahaha you really think you were pulling the strings when I was in RAK?

Ironically, I had to be talked out of podding you and Mave then kicking you both out of RAK by the other directors, so you're lucky to still be there. You're not as well liked or as important as you might think. Imagine THAT.

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Originally by: Seviche Phoenix

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...terminally stupid comments...

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Originally by: Lavraen

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Edited by: Aille Pluthrak on 03/10/2007 15:35:49
Edited by: Aille Pluthrak on 03/10/2007 15:31:24

Originally by: Lavraen

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Yeah I've heard you on vent and read your posts on the RAK forum and you seem like a jackass in real life to be honest.

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I meant what I said concerning Raven. If he had said at any time to kill your ship and pod you I would have done it without a second thought. You do a good impersonation of a jackass yourself Lav. I actually had to talk Mave out of podding you one night. Imagine that.

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Hahaha you really think you were pulling the strings when I was in RAK?

Ironically, I had to be talked out of podding you and Mave then kicking you both out of RAK by the other directors, so you're lucky to still be there. You're not as well liked or as important as you might think. Imagine THAT.

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Let's derail this some more.

Remind me again who is still in RAK and who isn't? I could care less about being liked by a lot of people. And I know how important I am (I am not important at all). But for some unknown reason you thought you were. Again who is still in RAK and who isn't? All because you thought you were too important to have people in corp not agree with what you said. I am suprised you lasted has long has you did in RAK.

Come and try and pod me if you think you can. I think I have more friends then you do in RAK. Well in the "Night Crew" at least.

Do you kiss behind has well in your new corp has you did in RAK?

Do I need to get a chair and some popcorn for this Drama? Let me know and I'll go buy some popcorn.

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Monster? Not at all, but you do have an interesting way of justifying your disassociation with, and lack of, humanity when you can't see others face-to-face. I'm not judging, I'm merely commenting.

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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you guys totally don't understand what word "intentional" means do you?

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Originally by: Hunters Presence

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The worst bit though, is anyone with a hint of wisdom of the science of psychology automatically assumes that everyone holds some kind of mental disorder.

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Human beings are human beings. The idea that a human being can be 'wrong' or 'inhuman' is ridiculous, ...

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Originally by: Devian 666

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I thought most of us were having a laugh at a link that I posted because it's so incredibly inaccurate and unscientific. Nothing like mocking bogus "science".
If you look at one of my very early responses you'll note that I intentionally posted this thread in tabloid style.

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Everyone playing eve is mentally ill because it's a pvp game.
We all need to join the Hello Kitty Beta because it's allegedly non-pvp.

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Originally by: Hunters Presence

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I can play EVE with utter discrimination when I want to however. That is not failure of humanity and I find it utterly warped that one would think that. EVE is virtual. It is a roleplaying environment where your actions represent only the personality of your character.

Why should I associate my actions with those of my character? They are not the same. When my half-elf in a Dungeons and Dragons game fires a shot through the lower cranium of the town mayor for betraying the party, it's not because deep down I have some inner desire to go around shooting with bows. I don't even ~like~ bows.

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What you have stated here is the underpinning of why psychology is no longer a science. I didn't expect this from KOS so the war is off.

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The road that the player chooses for the character to take is a reflection of his or her own mind and personality as well as real life circumstances.

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If you were completely dissociated with your in-game behavior no one would care to do these studies.

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As far as smack in local goes, when someone says that "you're a ***" or "f****** ****" or "*****" in local I doubt they are trying to insult your character because these insults have no meaning in world of EVE where our characters live. Our characters have no IQ, sexual orientation, and no family, hence would not understand such insults.

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But wouldn't you agree that while you're making your character shoot others with torps day after day and another player is making his character mine veldspar in high security system belt day after day that there are differences in how you, the real players, think and feel that make you want to engage your characters in these different actions? I'd say so.

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Originally by: Khavid Kharver

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Edited by: Khavid Kharver on 03/10/2007 19:51:52
Wow, are people in to justifying what they do. And the lengths all of you go to dehumanize your opponants (and that goes double for those who claim the people they are complaining about dehumanize their opponants).

FACT: No one in Eve really knows anyone else, unless they know them in RL too.

FACT: No one here knows anyone well enough, and certainly most of us here lack the qualifications to make that call anyway, to say someone is mentally unballenced.

I have no doubt that some pirates are complete jerks and even some of them could be mentally unballenced. But I bet the numbers of miners who fit those descriptions are not significantly different!

Personally, I don't see the fun in attacking anyone and everyone just because you can. I like PvP, but I prefer to engage in it in a way that lets me feel I have done some good. BUT I also don't think that means there is anything wrong with them. Hey, while I do mine, I also don't see what people who mine all day find fun either, and I am MORE inclinded to think there might be something wrong with them!

As for the Racketeers and those like minded corps and individuals, there are a couple of things you can do if you want to keep playing Eve. Eve's a big place, go somewhere where they are not. Or understand (they have told you this enough times) they do these things because they find them fun. Figure out how to make it so its not fun to do it to you.

And here is a hint about how to go about doing that second one. Whining about their actions on the forum most likely makes it more fun to take you on.

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Originally by: Lavraen

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I co-founded RAK. Freddy and I came up with the concept of RAK when we were in TWD. Freddy started it because he had corp skills and Lav didn't at the time. I used to can flip in TWD all the time and thought it would be a good laugh for a full time corp. I've known the ex TWD people in RAK for at least a year and many of them are facebook friends. Dhejay was CEO of TWD hence why he joined eventually. In the future I dare say I'll be flying with them again. For now I need to go and experience other areas of the game. The door is always open for me in RAK and Freddy has told me this.

It's best to get your facts straight to save your self from looking stupid in future.

I don't kiss ass. This is an example of kissing ass "I meant what I said concerning Raven. If he had said at any time to kill your ship and pod you I would have done it without a second thought"

Now go away, there's a good boy.

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I don't kiss ass. This is an example of kissing ass "I meant what I said concerning Raven. If he had said at any time to kill your ship and pod you I would have done it without a second thought"

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Originally by: Aille Pluthrak

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Edited by: Aille Pluthrak on 04/10/2007 16:32:14

Originally by: Lavraen

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I co-founded RAK. Freddy and I came up with the concept of RAK when we were in TWD. Freddy started it because he had corp skills and Lav didn't at the time. I used to can flip in TWD all the time and thought it would be a good laugh for a full time corp. I've known the ex TWD people in RAK for at least a year and many of them are facebook friends. Dhejay was CEO of TWD hence why he joined eventually. In the future I dare say I'll be flying with them again. For now I need to go and experience other areas of the game. The door is always open for me in RAK and Freddy has told me this.

It's best to get your facts straight to save your self from looking stupid in future.

I don't kiss ass. This is an example of kissing ass "I meant what I said concerning Raven. If he had said at any time to kill your ship and pod you I would have done it without a second thought"

Now go away, there's a good boy.

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You left RAK cause you want to experience more of EvE? From what I was told your forum privligies were revoked after your little hissy fit on the forums concerning the use of T2 ships and the ability of others in the use of said ships. Some of us who have been playing has long has you did not like being treated like two week old noobs who didn't know which way to point their wee-wee. To tell the truth given the fact that you had been with RAK a lot longer then I had I was half expecting to be invited to my own podding after basicly tell you to shove it where the sun don't shine on the RAK forums. But it seems you did not have the pull you thought you did and thus you took your ball and left "to explore more of EvE".

It sure did look like you kissed ass with all the parroting you were doing in the forums. And if saying what I said concerning Raven is kissing ass then I have no problem with that. I think your problem was that your ass wasn't getting kissed in the same way seeing how you helped "come up with the concept of RAK" and were not getting the respect you thought you deserved. Is that respect thing hard to see when Raven is real good at killing ships and all you seem to be good at is "flipping cans", with you in a Wolf no less (this after telling us not to fly T2 ships)?

And your response in this this thread and the way you posted your first post in this thread with an attack on me might be one of the reasons some of us don't respect you. The way you treat me in this thread is the exact same way you treated me and others in the RAK forums. Thank god Freddy was in charge and not you. Cause from what I have seen of your attitude here and on the RAK forums your CEO abilities are lacking. But by all means do come back to RAK. I look forward to borrowing a ship from you for some extra DPS at some planet.

You really do need to follow your own advice. None of this drama would have started if you had done what you said to me last in the RAK forums and ignore my posts.

Originally by: Lavraen

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As much as I dislike Aille, he plays and acts on Eve like a child

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I don't remember fly with you in game Lav except on those rare weekends and never during the week when I do a majority of my flying with the "Night Crew". I always thought I acted mature on vent. Granted I am doing better in the smack department when in local.

There's a good boy.

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Edited by: Leora Nomen on 04/10/2007 03:37:32

Originally by: Devian 666

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I thought most of us were having a laugh at a link that I posted because it's so incredibly inaccurate and unscientific. Nothing like mocking bogus "science".
If you look at one of my very early responses you'll note that I intentionally posted this thread in tabloid style.

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Yeah but what you're trying to discuss here is pvp while the article is about griefing and not player vs player combat. Griefing and pvp are not the same. You can be a miner, trader, mission runner and grief others. I don't even see words "pvp", "combat", or "piracy" in that article.

Originally by: Devian 666

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Everyone playing eve is mentally ill because it's a pvp game.
We all need to join the Hello Kitty Beta because it's allegedly non-pvp.

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When the article refers to "mentally ill, whether they're depressed, have a psychotic disorder, or substance abuse problems" it is referring to "people who intentionally harass or annoy other players in online games" and not anyone who chooses to engage in player vs player combat. Yet you blend the two in your comments as if they are one and same. The other poster does the same thing, leading me to believe that you guys don't get the difference between griefing and piracy or other pvp play. And the difference lies in the word "intentional". You either go out there trying to intentionally upset and anger people. Or you pirate for profit, challenge, risk, pretty explosions with no such intent. There's a difference and I don't really get why you're mixing the two up.

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Originally by: Hunters Presence

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Besides, even assuming this were the case I do not believe for one second that griefing has any link to mental disorders for the reasons outlined above... unless you consider basic human behaviour in a context that isn't our normal environment to constitute a mental disorder.

What this subject needs is less conjecture and more really-well thought out evidence.

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Originally by: Devian 666

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Bwahahahaha. You really don't get it do you. You are the one mistaking humour for serious writing.
Read what I have written and consider that it is not at all serious. Unless of course you consider tabloids to be the same quality as peer reviewed scientific journals.
You should consider the intent of what I have written.

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Originally by: Leora Nomen

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Edited by: Leora Nomen on 05/10/2007 01:59:24

Originally by: Devian 666

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Bwahahahaha. You really don't get it do you. You are the one mistaking humour for serious writing.
Read what I have written and consider that it is not at all serious. Unless of course you consider tabloids to be the same quality as peer reviewed scientific journals.
You should consider the intent of what I have written.

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If you read this entire thread you'll see that myself and a few other players who posted here are confused as to why you're talking about pirates and linking an article about griefers as it is not one and same.

Imagine I go and make a post titled "Why are all car salesmen such crooks" and in the body of the post I'll link some funny article titled "Nigerian 419 scam: Causes and Concerns". After this I'm going to find it very funny if anyone doesn't get why I made a post about car salemen and linked some silly article that talks about nigerian scammers and specifically them and has nothing to do with car salemen. Perhaps you'd like to explain to me the fine humor that lies in this.

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