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Atticus Fynch
362
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Posted - 2012.01.21 19:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?
I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.
Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland. G’ąG’ąG’ąCargo Pilots Unite!!!G’ąG’ąG’ą https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132 |
Thomas Abernathy
Viziam Amarr Empire
49
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Posted - 2012.01.21 19:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
They represent Goons, I think that says it all....
"Fighting CCD since 2139" |
Valei Khurelem
184
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Posted - 2012.01.21 19:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Quote:Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they get free psuedo-celebrity staus and free trips to Iceland.
You pretty much answered it yourself, if you're asking those kind of questions to begin with then CSM aren't being effective at their jobs at all.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -į - CCP Ytterbium |
Atticus Fynch
362
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Posted - 2012.01.21 19:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era. G’ąG’ąG’ąCargo Pilots Unite!!!G’ąG’ąG’ą https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132 |
Rory Orlenard
University of Caille Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
They can and do talk to CCP. Wether it's for show or actually useful.....who knows.
Different CSM members have different egendas and may or may not represent your views. Different CSM members have varying knowledge of the game aspects.........if you want some one who knows your gameplay aspects it is up to you to vote them in.
This last year some not all of the CSM members claimed they were reponsible for Hilmars refocusing while never mentioning the pilots who unsubbed, and they claimed wormholes represented to great a source of ABC minerals and needed to be choked.
They also made many good suggestions.
Bottom Line = You need to do some looking into CSM candidates and vote. Mittani out, Seleen in would be a good start. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
238
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.
I'm going to assume you didn't vote in the CSM election, don't know who the candidates were or who is currently on the CSM, don't follow the devblogs and are generally completely unaware of anything that has ever happened in the history of the CSM. |
Atticus Fynch
362
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Rory Orlenard wrote: This last year some not all of the CSM members claimed they were reponsible for Hilmars refocusing while never mentioning the pilots who unsubbed,
LOL!!!
I doubt CSM was responsible for CCP CEO "refocusing." $ub numbers had e a very load voice in all of this. CSM is just a powerless figurehead desinged to give the appearance that the EVE playerbase has a voice through them. Like I said before, the same can be accomplished via surveys/questionares and votes. 1 acct = 1 vote.
It's also cheaper than flying anyone out to iceland.
Vimsy Vortis wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era. I'm going to assume you didn't vote in the CSM election, don't know who the candidates were or who is currently on the CSM, don't follow the devblogs and are generally completely unaware of anything that has ever happened in the history of the CSM.
Chirst, life is complicated enough as is. I now have to follow up on all this political BS just to have some input in a game I play for enjoyment? Seems too much like work and I have a RL job for that. G’ąG’ąG’ąCargo Pilots Unite!!!G’ąG’ąG’ą https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132 |
Rikki Sals
State War Academy Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?
I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.
Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.
They represent those who voted for them, which ended up being about 14.25% of active subscriptions last year.
Surveys or questionnaires originating from the CSM might be of some value, but again, the results of those will only reflect the sample of people who responded (and that's assuming respondents weren't just trolling.)
Atticus Fynch wrote:Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.
What method do you propose? |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
73
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
CSM speaks for their own interests more or less; they always will, and they always have. Sometimes those interests coincide with some or all of the rest of us, and other times they are so far off the mark as to be completely out of touch. No surprise there. CSM is coming to re-election, and the guys that are in, want to get as much of their personal stuff pushed through as possible right now. Most likely, the majority of that stuff has nothing to do with us. |
Jerick Ludhowe
The Green Cross Controlled Chaos
42
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:16:00 -
[10] - Quote
Been a while since i've seen a CSM post something not purely ego driven... Most of them represent a very very small portion of the community, something that must be addressed.
I'm personally all for getting rid of the lot of them. |
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Atticus Fynch
362
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Rikki Sals wrote:
What method do you propose?
Email alert linking to a survey site. Log-in screen alert linking to email site.
You log in to survey site with your account info and answer questions/vote.
Simple. G’ąG’ąG’ąCargo Pilots Unite!!!G’ąG’ąG’ą https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132 |
atrum dux
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hi, please do not take down the CSM. We won't be able to destroy this wonderful internet spaceship game. |
Atticus Fynch
364
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:32:00 -
[13] - Quote
atrum dux wrote:Hi, please do not take down the CSM. We won't be able to destroy own this wonderful internet spaceship game.
fixed G’ąG’ąG’ąCargo Pilots Unite!!!G’ąG’ąG’ą https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132 |
Grath Telkin
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
357
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:33:00 -
[14] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?
I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.
Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.
They are elected, and they work with and discuss things with players in an entirely different section of the forums than this.
They won't send you surveys, much like everything else in EVE, if you want to be involved, you go where the action is and get involved.
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Atticus Fynch
364
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Grath Telkin wrote:
They won't send you surveys, much like everything else in EVE, if you want to be involved, you go where the action is and get involved.
My idea is simpler, cheaper and gets a larger portion of the playerbase involved due to its simplicty. Not just those even aware of this political side of EVE.
Rikki Sals wrote: They represent those who voted for them, which ended up being about 14.25% of active subscriptions last year.
Those are pretty sad figures and not representative of the player base at all. G’ąG’ąG’ąCargo Pilots Unite!!!G’ąG’ąG’ą https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132 |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1116
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
The 5th topic on this subject in the last 4 days.
Down with goons pretending to speak on my behalf.
+1 |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1240
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Rikki Sals wrote:
What method do you propose?
Email alert linking to a survey site. Log-in screen alert linking to email site. You log in to survey site with your account info and answer questions/vote. Simple.
1) Why do you seem to enjoy getting email spam?
2) IIRC there was E-Mail spam telling people to vote in the CSM. That various blocs were able to get out the vote better than disorganized HiSec people is not the fault of the blocs. dAWwww, here he goes. -įPoastin' Drunk agin. |
Sundarpants
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
You clearly didn't pay a jot of attention to the elections then.
The candidates all outlined their views and blogged and campaigned etc... and we, the players, vote for those who best represent our views.... it's not a difficult concept.
Second to this, we have had surveys from CCP, we also had that rather large event when we rated all the of the individual issues listed on a points scale, this was then collated to provide CCP with a view of "what the players want".
They have been instrumental this year in bringing about CCP's agenda/attitude toward the playerbase and the game, improving a great many areas, to one of the best expansions we've had in years, and Eve players moving from wild protest to voting Eve Online the best game of 2011 on MMORPG.com, a particulary notable achievment considering the MMORPG.com inhabitants views on Eve Online. And furthmore, have built one of the best player-CSM-CCP relationships we have enjoyed since it's inception, which could make the coming elections the most important in OUR game's history.
edit:
It seems to me a case of people who refuse to participate in all the avenues they are provided to interact with CCP and shape the future of Eve, complaining that they are not being heard? |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1116
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sundarpants wrote: The candidates all outlined their views and blogged and campaigned etc... and we, the players, vote for those who best represent our views.... it's not a difficult concept. .
Players play the game, sheeple vote. |
Atticus Fynch
364
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Rikki Sals wrote:
What method do you propose?
Email alert linking to a survey site. Log-in screen alert linking to email site. You log in to survey site with your account info and answer questions/vote. Simple. 1) Why do you seem to enjoy getting email spam? 2) IIRC there was E-Mail spam telling people to vote in the CSM. That various blocs were able to get out the vote better than disorganized HiSec people is not the fault of the blocs.
Having a voice in EVE shouldnt have to be a mini-game of knowing who-is-who in what election and what they might represent It's just a popularity contest with no real teeth.
It should be direct and simple. If e-mail spam is your biggest problem in life then you are a very privileged person. G’ąG’ąG’ąCargo Pilots Unite!!!G’ąG’ąG’ą https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132 |
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Sundarpants
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote: Players play the game, sheeple vote.
... and fools bemoan their lack of opertunity while refusing those presented
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Lady Spank
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
1142
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Posted - 2012.01.21 20:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hi I'm a lazy scrub who thrives on ignorance and want people to come to me rather than inform myself and get involved in discussions via the correct channels therefore I'll suggest we disband this player representative I clearly don't understand. (a¦į_a¦ā) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦į_a¦ā) |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1240
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Posted - 2012.01.21 21:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Rikki Sals wrote:
What method do you propose?
Email alert linking to a survey site. Log-in screen alert linking to email site. You log in to survey site with your account info and answer questions/vote. Simple. 1) Why do you seem to enjoy getting email spam? 2) IIRC there was E-Mail spam telling people to vote in the CSM. That various blocs were able to get out the vote better than disorganized HiSec people is not the fault of the blocs. Having a voice in EVE shouldnt have to be a mini-game of knowing who-is-who in what election and what they might represent It's just a popularity contest with no real teeth. It should be direct and simple. If e-mail spam is your biggest problem in life then you are a very privileged person.
Gaining influence in life is a game of organization and knowing people.
Any sort of voting system of organized survey system is going to run into issues of voter participation. Organized groups of players have already figured out how to get people to participate in things, and so their participation will be much higher.
In addition, some person has to go through the surveys and interpret them. The CSM was formed because we as players can't trust CCP to not screw that up(through incompetence or corruption). To paraphrase Churchill, Representative Democracy (the CSM) is the worst possible governmental system.... but for all the rest.
E-Mail spam is not the biggest problem in my life. It is a problem and is something that I do not enjoy dealing with. dAWwww, here he goes. -įPoastin' Drunk agin. |
Cyprus Black
Tears of Redemption NEM3SIS.
134
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Posted - 2012.01.21 21:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
Well you could start by actually keeping up with the CSMs activities. I'll be the first to admit there needs to be a LOT more clarity and communication, but CSM 6 are the first bunch I've seen who didn't treat it like a joke.
Plus I think you misunderstand how the CSM works. They don't actually hold any power of any kind and CCP is in no way required to listen to anything they have to say. The CSM is simply there to give their opinion and little else. As we've already seen, the CSMs gave their opinion, CCP didn't listen, and it bit them in the ass hard.
That's why CCP pays them any mind. If you believe the CSMs aren't representing the playerbase, then vote for one you believe does. Like my post? Made you laugh or think? Maybe even offended or nausiated you? Then give a Like. They're free and oh so easy to give. |
Atticus Fynch
364
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Posted - 2012.01.21 21:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Look, if you fools want to play grade-school class president elections, that's fine. You cant deny though that CSM does not represent the whole and when that happens then the system is broken.
One of the more humorous aspects of CSM is how their hands are tied by non-disclosure-agreements.
They are representing us right? That is as good as having us right there in iceland, right? So why does our "representative" body need to keep secrets from us?
In RL such measures are necessary in govt for national security...but we are talking about a game here.
EVE has no real competitors. SWTOR is more a competitor to WOW than EVE. Perpetuum is the closest thing to EVE by way of game mechanics, but the theme is still very different. So why all the secrecy?
When CSM came back from the Incarna fiasco, they said "Gallente CQ is the best looking of all." Really? Why is this such a secret that CCP could produce pics? And is the best CSM came back with considering all the things wrong with Incarna?
Lady Spank wrote:Hi I'm a lazy scrub who thrives on ignorance and want people to come to me rather than inform myself and get involved in discussions via the correct channels therefore I'll suggest we disband this player representative I clearly don't understand.
Im not a lazy scrub, I am a PAYING CUSTOMER, which has more weight today than it did in pre-incarna days where CCP felt they had us wrapped around their little finger. I expected better out of you LS, guess you ar just another worthless troll.
YOu cant deny that CSm is a dinosaur kept around just for the sake of keeping it around. Electronic communications is better. cheaper, faster and represents the playerbase more accurately.
In short, CSM is a joke and CCP knows it. G’ąG’ąG’ąCargo Pilots Unite!!!G’ąG’ąG’ą https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=668132&#post668132 |
RubyPorto
Profoundly Disturbed RED.Legion
1240
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Posted - 2012.01.21 21:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Look, if you fools want to play grade-school class president elections, that's fine. You cant deny though that CSM does not represent the whole and when that happens then the system is broken.
One of the more humorous aspects of CSM is how their hands are tied by non-disclosure-agreements.
They are representing us right? That is as good as having us right there in iceland, right? So why does our "representative" body need to keep secrets from us?
In RL such measures are necessary in govt for national security...but we are talking about a game here.
EVE has no real competitors. SWTOR is more a competitor to WOW than EVE. Perpetuum is the closest thing to EVE by way of game mechanics, but the theme is still very different. So why all the secrecy?
From what I understand, the members of the CSM have pointed out that silliness to CCP, but the NDA issues are on CCP's head. The CSM doesn't have much of a choice there.
Quote:When CSM came back from the Incarna fiasco, they said "Gallente CQ is the best looking of all." Really? Why is this such a secret that CCP could produce pics? And is the best CSM came back with considering all the things wrong with Incarna? Lady Spank wrote:Hi I'm a lazy scrub who thrives on ignorance and want people to come to me rather than inform myself and get involved in discussions via the correct channels therefore I'll suggest we disband this player representative I clearly don't understand. Im not a lazy scrub, I am a PAYING CUSTOMER, which has more weight today than it did in pre-incarna days where CCP felt they had us wrapped around their little finger. I expected better out of you LS, guess you ar just another worthless troll. YOu cant deny that CSm is a dinosaur kept around just for the sake of keeping it around. Electronic communications is better. cheaper, faster and represents the playerbase more accurately. In short, CSM is a joke and CCP knows it.
You're a paying customer. So is everyone else. Stop yelling about paying CCP's salary with your 50cents a day. It makes you look like a tool.
Great, Electronic Communication's awesome. Who decides what questions to ask, how to interpret free-form answers, how to word the questions, and so many other issues that come up in polling? Like I said before, CCP has shown that we certanly can't answer that question with "The Management at CCP" dAWwww, here he goes. -įPoastin' Drunk agin. |
Muestereate
Two Geezers in Space
9
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Posted - 2012.01.21 21:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Quote:Im not a lazy scrub, I am a PAYING CUSTOMER
So far Out!!
Atticus for CSM chair |
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
2881
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Posted - 2012.01.21 21:52:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vote next time. sheesh.
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Komen
Capital Enrichment Services
56
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Posted - 2012.01.21 21:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
I am for keeping the CSM just to generate such entertainment as this thread, and all the ones about TheMittani being a ganking griefer and how that shouldn't be allowed in particular. Priceless enjoyment. |
ACE McFACE
Acetech Systems
548
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Posted - 2012.01.21 22:01:00 -
[30] - Quote
atrum dux wrote:Hi, please do not take down the CSM. We won't be able to destroy this wonderful internet spaceship game. I don't recall the CSM suggesting that Nyxes deploy more Nyxes which deploy more etc, until the node crashes. Or suggesting that said Nyxes are allowed in high sec. Now that would ruin the game Real men wear goggles and a Navy shirt! |
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