Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they get free psuedo-celebrity staus and free trips to Iceland.

Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.

This last year some not all of the CSM members claimed they were reponsible for Hilmars refocusing while never mentioning the pilots who unsubbed,

I'm going to assume you didn't vote in the CSM election, don't know who the candidates were or who is currently on the CSM, don't follow the devblogs and are generally completely unaware of anything that has ever happened in the history of the CSM.

Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?

I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.

Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.

Maybe it's time to disband CSM and find a more direct method of interacting with the EVE playerbase. Representative bodies are a relec of the pre-internet/digital communication era.

What method do you propose?

Hi, please do not take down the CSM. We won't be able to destroy own this wonderful internet spaceship game.

Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?

I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.

Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.

They won't send you surveys, much like everything else in EVE, if you want to be involved, you go where the action is and get involved.

They represent those who voted for them, which ended up being about 14.25% of active subscriptions last year.

Email alert linking to a survey site. Log-in screen alert linking to email site.

You log in to survey site with your account info and answer questions/vote.

Simple.

The candidates all outlined their views and blogged and campaigned etc... and we, the players, vote for those who best represent our views.... it's not a difficult concept.
.

1) Why do you seem to enjoy getting email spam?

2) IIRC there was E-Mail spam telling people to vote in the CSM. That various blocs were able to get out the vote better than disorganized HiSec people is not the fault of the blocs.

Players play the game, sheeple vote.

Having a voice in EVE shouldnt have to be a mini-game of knowing who-is-who in what election and what they might represent It's just a popularity contest with no real teeth.

It should be direct and simple. If e-mail spam is your biggest problem in life then you are a very privileged person.

Hi I'm a lazy scrub who thrives on ignorance and want people to come to me rather than inform myself and get involved in discussions via the correct channels therefore I'll suggest we disband this player representative I clearly don't understand.

Look, if you fools want to play grade-school class president elections, that's fine. You cant deny though that CSM does not represent the whole and when that happens then the system is broken.

One of the more humorous aspects of CSM is how their hands are tied by non-disclosure-agreements.

They are representing us right? That is as good as having us right there in iceland, right? So why does our "representative" body need to keep secrets from us?

In RL such measures are necessary in govt for national security...but we are talking about a game here.

EVE has no real competitors. SWTOR is more a competitor to WOW than EVE. Perpetuum is the closest thing to EVE by way of game mechanics, but the theme is still very different. So why all the secrecy?

When CSM came back from the Incarna fiasco, they said "Gallente CQ is the best looking of all." Really? Why is this such a secret that CCP could produce pics? And is the best CSM came back with considering all the things wrong with Incarna?



Im not a lazy scrub, I am a PAYING CUSTOMER, which has more weight today than it did in pre-incarna days where CCP felt they had us wrapped around their little finger. I expected better out of you LS, guess you ar just another worthless troll.

YOu cant deny that CSm is a dinosaur kept around just for the sake of keeping it around. Electronic communications is better. cheaper, faster and represents the playerbase more accurately.

In short, CSM is a joke and CCP knows it.

Im not a lazy scrub, I am a PAYING CUSTOMER

Hi, please do not take down the CSM. We won't be able to destroy this wonderful internet spaceship game.

You're a paying customer. So is everyone else. Stop yelling about paying CCP's salary with your 50cents a day. It makes you look like a tool.

Funny you should say that.

I recall a certain group of players lead by a rather vocal tool who enjoyed bitching about how eve was failing and how useless the CSM at the time was. They protested in jita and then threatened to quit if CCP didn't listen to them. Many blogs were written leading up to the last CSM elections and many alt accounts suspended when Incarna failed to deliver what was promised, with nasty notes indicating why.

Deja vu in the making.

Arghhhh, democracy is idiotic anyway, having a majority dosent mean their decision is the right one.

Anyway, CSM are players (players as in - not earning a dime for the activity) and I am sure they have better things to do than create, post, receive and analyse pool results.

They got ellected, and give their opinions on the matters. Still, they have no real power. So whatever they want to 'push', CCP can judge if thats good or not for the game, wich is their bussiness.

Case in point, certain CSM's are advocating for futher SC nerfs simply because their Alliance/ Coalition can't defeat other Alliances in SC fights. They can't field enough or their SC pilots suck or won't commit. Sc's are fine as is.

Case in point, certain CSM's are advocating for futher SC nerfs simply because their Alliance/ Coalition can't defeat other Alliances in SC fights. They can't field enough or their SC pilots suck or won't commit. Sc's are fine as is.

How does a democratic vote do anything but further strengthen the powerblocks whose votes resulted in the current CSM?

Last I checked, powerblocs don't get to vote for CSM candidates. Accounts do. People run accounts. Some people tend to work together to achieve goals.

The fact that I'll bet on the team with two guys over the team with one guy any day of the week is simply how the world works.

Anyway, the CSM elections are pretty much the freest* democratic process I've ever seen everywhere.



*Free != Fair != Protective of the Minority != "Nice"

Sorry we accidentally your space. Did you use your SC to defend it?

That would be the same as a powerblock. The rest is semantics. Alliance, powerblock, people working together, it's all the same thing. Point being, if they have the ability through numbers to place their desired candidates into the CSM, giving them the ability to directly promote their views in another form gives the same result. I'm not saying anything is wrong with the current CSM, what I am saying is that abolishing them and moving to a system querying individual account holders for their views does nothing to change what the majority votes for.

Well in any event, i propose removing CSM's from the game and useing referendum for the player base itself to determine game direction, issues, quality. etc. This will remove bias, personal agenda from effecting game direction, balance, quality. I would advise everyone agreeing with this to start contacting CCP directly.

No apology required, i'm in the south and have nothing to do with said conflict. BTW CAOD is that way----> lets stay on topic.

The CSM does a pretty damn good job of coordinating themselves.

Before you high sec people cry too much about not being represented, remember the last person you collectively voted for... Ankhesentapemkah (spellling). You can't even pick a sane person to represent your important high sec concerns.

Then don't straw man bullcrap.

U mad bro? don't take it out on me if raiden & Co. bitchslaped you alliance, again i live in the south.

Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?

I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.

Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.

How often do you post in the Assembly Hall? There's a whole forum dedicated to giving player feedback to the CSM.

They don't represent anyone but their alliances. Get real. They say exactly what they are told to.

Most of them are the Leaders/In the Leadership of their respective alliances. Who exactly is telling them what to do? And what, praytell, would the alliances use to keep them in line? The ear of a CSM is probably more valuable than a CSM who quits the alliance and is pissed at the leadership of said alliance.

Alliances are merely groups of people working together for a common interest. If you want a different composition in the next CSM, band together a group of people to populate the CSM with different people. Out of ~200k subs, ~40k peaks each day, there's certainly room to topple a chairman who won with ~6000 votes.

LMAO you bore me. We all know it is broken you can continue to defend it. Leaders? Really? leaders of what binary code? My boss is a leader CSM are a joke. Corps and Alliances are worse than a day watching Kardashians reality TV

You defend democracy really? In a game? Haha ok you guys continue on.

If you don't want a nullsec-focused CSM, why don't you make a serious effort to organize like-minded players into voting for candidates that represent you? Is that too much work, or are you blaming CCP and the CSM for your own lack of charisma and initiative?

They represent Goons, I think that says it all....

Oh. They're very effective in representing their interests, which happen to happily coincide with each other...fancy that.
They seem to be good dates for the CCP folks who keep havin' them over for sh*ts and grins. I guess CSM loves CCP
since they roll over so well...sounds like a dream date.

Uh...for the vast majority of us? Effective at what? Pretending we either don't matter,
don't know what we need, or don't exist?

Yeah, they're doing a bang-up job. (Pardon the pun.)

Who exactly do they represent and how do they speak for the rest of us?

I have yet to receive any surveys or questionaires from them asking what I, as a player, think.

Are they a truely respresentative body or just the body with the biggest mouth? So big they have psuedo-celebrity staus and get free trips to Iceland.

CSM do not represent me and my views, in addition, given the choice between two bowls of **** in an election the only two things you can do is either not vote or pick the bowl of **** that smells best.

In any case, the CSM have no real power, it is something ''allowed'' by CCP to make thousands of other people happy in some sense. Another method of control. Like the police, courts, tickets, etc..

I've have run large clans in online games, for over 10 years now. I can personally tell you that after a certain point you lose touch with some parts of your member base. You simply can't keep up with every little snowflake you recruit, and the responsibility and administration of a clan puts some claim on your time which further stops you from really knowing what is going on with 100 percent of the people. It is a fine line of delegation and decision making that you have to figure out for yourself and weight what is an acceptable sacrifice of time day to day.

Those bitches in the CSM just like having their name on a list, getting to say whatever, and making deals behind the scenes with gullible people who think their agendas can be spread by isk just like a real politician. The only difference here is that instead of a real politician with years of law experience, you have some fat ass 34 year old living in his mother's basement drinking Red Bull like Mittani.

No I couldn't find one. I'm supposed to just pick from a list? None of them campaigned to me? Etc., etc..

I was generalizing, don't get butt hurt.


On semi-related subject - I don't believe in democracy. It is a complete failure in itself. I live in the USA and I hear about all the stupidity of the US Government all day long here. Do you really think I would support 1,000 people who don't support anything I am interested in? People who are more concerned about themselves, what kind of money they can generate for their personal interests, how they can keep their fingers on the tax rate to make life good for themselves, and how much debt they can put our country into? **** no. You gotta be out of your god damn mind.

I'd much rather have a dictator, and if the MF'er doesn't pan out, we coup'de'ta his ass.

No, in a forum discussion.




And "Blah-Blah-Blah, who cares about a game" doesn't fly as an argument once you've put in the effort to post about the CSM "representing" anyone, like they owe it to you.

No I couldn't find one. I'm supposed to just pick from a list? None of them campaigned to me? Etc., etc..

I was generalizing, don't get butt hurt.


On semi-related subject - I don't believe in democracy. It is a complete failure in itself. I live in the USA and I hear about all the stupidity of the US Government all day long here. Do you really think I would support 1,000 people who don't support anything I am interested in? People who are more concerned about themselves, what kind of money they can generate for their personal interests, how they can keep their fingers on the tax rate to make life good for themselves, and how much debt they can put our country into? **** no. You gotta be out of your god damn mind.

I'd much rather have a dictator, and if the MF'er doesn't pan out, we coupe d'etat his ass.

I think you miss the point Ruby. They do. That is what they are there for; to represent all players in EVE equally. That is their tsk and their duty as detailed by CCP when they brought this all into being. They are not there to speak for their own , or their Corp, or even their Alliances best interests; they are intended to be objective and unbiased to the best of their ability, in representing the EVE playerbase as a whole. They are failing.

None of them represent me and what I am interested in nor does anyone in the government. And for damn sure Mittani doesn't represent my interests in the game, especially when his alliance and buddies are all about scamming people and all around screwing EVE Online up. I don't think anyone who is a leader of a major powerblock should be anywhere near the CSM, they will be looking out primarily for their alliance's interests.

Look at the trend in EVE, CSM isn't helping anything. Failed expansions, UI is crap, null sec is dying in favor of high sec, broken client, game mechanics screwed up. Where is CSM truly fixing any of this? There is a easier way to go about this, post in the forum and whatever gets a popular following probably should be worked on. Where is the need for a CSM now? Devs can't spend 5 minutes a day looking at the forum?

Then don't vote for leaders of major (however should we define that) powerblocs. Simple as that. I have never heard of the Mittani using his position as CSM chair to scam or otherwise grief people. GSF has been acting pretty much the same way since it began, so the people who voted for him knew what they were getting.

The major reason for the Incarna expansion's failure was released over the CSM's objections, and with CCP misrepresenting their words (Gold Scorpion).

As for forums, how do you define popular? Lots of activity? Cause that would include the "No, you're dumb" activity. Plus, people who are active on the forums is an even smaller proportion of the Eve Playerbase than the CSM voter's are.

So you just blindly believe that? If I pulled up to you on the street and had free candy written on the side of my van would you get in?

Yeah, you bring up another good point of how FAIL the CSM is. I'm pretty sure Test and Goons got together and sent out mails saying everyone get on the forum and vote Mittens in.

A lot of high sec corps and alliances aren't as big as the nullsec alliances and coalitions.

CSM = Fail, Just Epic Fail

The CSM is completely ineffective and way too powerful.

(on an unrelated note, I'd really like to see a chart of subscriber numbers showing what happened when CCP started listening to the CSM...)

Also, it would be nice to have a direct feedback system. Dreamhost did this really well, I think. They gave everyone a fixed number of "feature request points", and you could allocate your points among the features you cared most about. You could also give up some of your points to suggest a new feature.

I think some kind of community-driven, google moderator style feature suggest system would be a nice complement to the CSM.

What they should do is more surveys and polls that target actual players again rather than these stupid forum troll elections, this is a game, not real life. I don't come here to be Ron Paul and argue with the establishment for 50+ years until they start finally listening to me only when things go completely wrong.

What they should do is more surveys and polls that target actual players again rather than these stupid forum troll elections, this is a game, not real life. I don't come here to be Ron Paul and argue with the establishment for 50+ years until they start finally listening to me only when things go completely wrong.

If you don't want a nullsec-focused CSM, why don't you make a serious effort to organize like-minded players into voting for candidates that represent you? Is that too much work, or are you blaming CCP and the CSM for your own lack of charisma and initiative?

The issue is clearly not the CSM being ineffective, it is them focusing on a part of the game that doesn't interest you, or them pushing for changes that are detrimental to the way you play the game.

Highsec is a huge fragmented mess, with thousands of small to medium corps and tons of NPC fliers that don't communicate or interact much at all.

Just how do you expect anyone to organize that and get a significant number of these people on the same page?