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Now that Vista has failed...

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Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:24:00 - [1] Can we please get the EVE cleitn back into the nice package it was before!!! Having the folders all spread out really blows I miss having all my EVE ready to travel with me on a flash drive. Any Computer.. any time PLEASE PLEASE... Screw Vista.
Thrust SSC	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:30:00 - [2] Yes, let's drop all Vista support so that Spaceman Jack can play EVE while travelling! No.
Chancer Minmatar Blueprint Haus Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:31:00 - [3] Vista failed? I must have missed the Microsoft press release.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:31:00 - [4] And somehow, this thread fails even more than Vista. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Ni'an	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:36:00 - [5] running eve on vista for months, never had any problem
PenguinJim	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:39:00 - [6] Originally by: Ni'an running eve on vista for months, never had any problem Same, and I run 3 or 4 clients at a time
Thanos Draicon	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Chancer Vista failed? I must have missed the Microsoft press release. It didn't fail so much as it was stillborn, really.
Valrandir Gallente Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:53:00 - [8] Originally by: Spaceman Jack I miss having all my EVE ready to travel with me on a flash drive. Any Computer.. any time You still can, with command line options, which can be in a nice jack friendly shortcut. -------------------------------- This has surpassed the Yarrdware specification and has been dubbed Uberware - Oveur
Phil Miller Ocean Dynamics Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:56:00 - [9] Vista is doing fantastic actually. According to retailers and distributors, the first week sales have been above their expectations. The most popular version that sold was the Home Edition, but the biggest surprise was probably that the Vista Ultimate (the full feature and most expensive version of the operating system) sold in high numbers. Of course, Microsoft was happy with it all. Also, there haven't been too many "bugs" discovered with Vista, which is great. Of course, there are always the compatibility issues, but those are things that will work themselves out in due time. Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Hutch ([email protected])
I'mA Geezer Friends Of Derek	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:58:00 - [10] Just use the command line switches and don't ever select "launch eve online" from the patch screen! Vista is just fine on machines that are specced up to run it. Its death has been announced prematurely just like EVERY OTHER Microsoft OS ever, as people always like comfortable slippers they are already wearing. ... except in the case of Windows ME where people who hated it were justified.
Menkaure Amarr Vanitas Corp.	Posted - 2007.09.28 13:59:00 - [11] Failed about as much as XP failed within its first sixmonths-year of release. People and tech grow into OS's. Biggest argument I can see from vista bashers is that it hogs memory. Which is true, if you're running an XP pc. Also used to be the biggest complaint from 2k/98 users when they upgraded to XP.... they just didnt have the memory to run it. Its a fairly good OS all told, having used it for 5 or 6 months now on one of my pcs.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:01:00 - [12] Edited by: MasterEnt on 28/09/2007 14:04:22 Originally by: Chancer Vista failed? I must have missed the Microsoft press release. LOL, when is the last time MS admitted to anything it did badly? Your right.. you must have missed it. When was the lat time MS offered a categorical downgrade option on such a scale. When was the las time manufacturers has to offer an OLDER OS after millions of people complained about it. Vista Downgrade Abandoned Vista Business Hates Vista 01 Business Hates Vista 02 Downgrade NOTE NOTE NOTE: Never did I say EVE was not working on Vista (can play it fine), what I said was that Vista (in and of itself) is a failure, and having the folders spread out for its rediculously complex design sucks. It was nice having EVE in one folder. Sure.. if you are only playing EVE and games on it it works fine, some of us use our computers for a little more.
Nicho Void Gallente Hyper-Nova	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:02:00 - [13] Originally by: Menkaure Failed about as much as XP failed within its first sixmonths-year of release. People and tech grow into OS's. Biggest argument I can see from vista bashers is that it hogs memory. Which is true, if you're running an XP pc. Also used to be the biggest complaint from 2k/98 users when they upgraded to XP.... they just didnt have the memory to run it. Its a fairly good OS all told, having used it for 5 or 6 months now on one of my pcs. This. All you techy fanboys need to relax. The same thing happened with XP, then SP1 and SP2 were released. I find it horribly ironic that the same OS people like you were blasting 6 years ago is now the OS you refuse to let go. ---------------
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Nicho Void Originally by: Menkaure Failed about as much as XP failed within its first sixmonths-year of release. People and tech grow into OS's. Biggest argument I can see from vista bashers is that it hogs memory. Which is true, if you're running an XP pc. Also used to be the biggest complaint from 2k/98 users when they upgraded to XP.... they just didnt have the memory to run it. Its a fairly good OS all told, having used it for 5 or 6 months now on one of my pcs. This. All you techy fanboys need to relax. The same thing happened with XP, then SP1 and SP2 were released. I find it horribly ironic that the same OS people like you were blasting 6 years ago is now the OS you refuse to let go. Funny.. do you have any evidence I was blasting it?
Darius Shakor Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:08:00 - [15] Originally by: Phil Miller Vista is doing fantastic actually. According to retailers and distributors, the first week sales have been above their expectations. The most popular version that sold was the Home Edition, but the biggest surprise was probably that the Vista Ultimate (the full feature and most expensive version of the operating system) sold in high numbers. Of course, Microsoft was happy with it all. Also, there haven't been too many "bugs" discovered with Vista, which is great. Of course, there are always the compatibility issues, but those are things that will work themselves out in due time. Interesting. And how long have you worked for Microsoft? Honestly though, I have not bothered with vista at this time. Once it begins to take deeper root though and proves itself over time I'll dip into it. Or when the DX10 graphics overhaul for eve goes live. Which ever comes first. ------ Shakor Clan Information Portal
Captain Sonata	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:11:00 - [16] @MasterEnt Isn't it time you stopped living in the past? Also, since you're saying that "if you are only playing EVE and games on it it works fine, some of us use our computers for a little more.", could you list a few of those activities that you are having trouble so diligently performing on Vista? I'd like to personally help you investigate the cause, as well as offer you a solution to any of them.
Garrack Caldari Black Velvet Allegience	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:16:00 - [17] I dunno what Phil and such are talking about... Vista really isn't doing that well. There IS some truth to the whole "people/businesses don't adopt new OSes quickly" thing too. However, I've been in IT for eons, and what I see in this case that is new, is that there is relatively no additional significant value in Vista that justifies the absolutely staggering performance impact. What's more is much of what Vista touts as good is massively annoying and winds up being disabled by anyone who is even remotely tech-savvy. Hell, I work in a company that usually gobbles up new OSes like candy, and this time we're like "Ummmm... no." There is a lot to indicate that Vista is going to be different than some of the previous major releases in the adoption pattern. I, for one, won't use it and I'm the biggest "new OS/toy" **** around. :)
Arachidamia The Ninja Coalition	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:19:00 - [18] Vista has not failed. But at the same time... it's had a very lukewarm reception. Certainly far worse than XP got. It seems to have many drawbacks and little new to offer. Except DX10 support, which is essentially being kept vista only to force users to upgrade. But that's microsoft for you. But hey... hopefully the upcoming linux client for eve works well. Then I'll be happy. I just hope other games start gaining linux support. The non windows market is on the rise after all, it makes sense for more games companies to try and get a foothold in that potential market.
zilllii Squirrel Power	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:19:00 - [19] vista is around 10% slower in games due to crappy DRM interfering with the system on a driver level by encrypting and asking the system for permission to display and play sounds. vista is not a operating system it is a RIIA and MPAA software virus. microsoft should have told them to go shove it and should also have said "we care about our customers so we are not going to build a winxp with just a couple of shiny bits on it with loads of crap that you want in it" to them. everything works in XP and does so faster and better, if you love vista so much for its looks there are good vista transformation packs out there because it is impossible to like vista for its performance. -------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Love the new need for speed initiative. Pilots involved in a fleet battle can post on the forum and get a reply about wha
An Anarchyyt Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:29:00 - [20] Originally by: MasterEnt LOL, when is the last time MS admitted to anything it did badly? Windows ME Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
J Ripper Caldari	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:31:00 - [21] As all the fanboys have changed the topic to xp vs vista i`ll have my 2p`s worth I used vista on my pc for about a month, I had too many backward compatibilities so had to default back to XP Vista has some nice "eye candy" but still isn`t as effiecient as XP in it`s current stage. Unless there is a DX10 port for xp (which I know nothing about) I will be forced to go back to vista and have a split OS system for my older software. Back to the OP`s question, I agree that Eve should be all in one folder. Why was it split up anyhow ?? my sig: --- Jon Johansen ---
Cypherous Minmatar Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:36:00 - [22] I've had no massive issues with Vista other than the somewhat annoying lack of being able to record "What u hear" although i mearly assumed it was a driver related issue and not a DRM one although there may be ways around that using XP drivers over Vista ones. --------- Liberty Rogues Website
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.09.28 14:47:00 - [23] Edited by: MasterEnt on 28/09/2007 14:51:45 Originally by: Captain Sonata @MasterEnt Isn't it time you stopped living in the past? Also, since you're saying that "if you are only playing EVE and games on it it works fine, some of us use our computers for a little more.", could you list a few of those activities that you are having trouble so diligently performing on Vista? I'd like to personally help you investigate the cause, as well as offer you a solution to any of them. Living in the past has never been a habit of mine. I appreciate the assumption. But by the same token, I don't go and rush things just because they are shiny and new. I am in media production. I use a lot of Adobe CS3 design/Video, Maya, Cinema 4D, Vue, Shake, Combustion, and have been a part of development teams for Autocad, Alias, Adobe and as such have work with MS directly on partnership development projects. I am not a "Screw MS" guy. I can tell you the biggest problem has to do with Rendering OpenGL for graphic apps. Once again MS wanted to monopolize that branch by trying to drop support for Open GL and support DX only. Well, there was a huge outcry about that so they reimplemented it last minutes, but its half assed, and reaks of passive aggressiveness. For me.. that is a problem. In the end, this post was not about how much Vista sucks or not. And right off the bat everyone assumes that i was having a problem running EVE becuse Vista is a bad and clunky OS. That assumption alone negates half of the posts here. Does Vists boot.. yes, does it run some thing, yes.. but my 1980 POS Car starts and runs also, but that dont mean its a good or efficient car. PS Capt Sonata: I DO appreciate your offer of trying to help me, the reply was not meant to flame you.
Scel Eratus	Posted - 2007.09.28 15:01:00 - [24] Vista may, at some point in the future, be a great OS. Right now, however, it is not worth using, particularly for novice computer users. I have heard stories of people taking their missbehaving Vista systems in to various outlets for tech support only to be turned away simply because the techs refused to work with Vista.
Q'ui	Posted - 2007.09.28 15:06:00 - [25] /sweeps Windows Millenium under the carpet. yes I agree
Corwain Gallente Kamite	Posted - 2007.09.28 15:13:00 - [26] Hehe, saw a funny comic the other day. Some of the comic characters are watching the news of the Vista downgrade to XP option on new PCs and one of them goes, "Wait, that's a downgrade?" -- A Solo Arbitrator vid, Distortion by Corwain
Andre Ricard Freelancer Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.28 15:16:00 - [27] Originally by: Arachidamia But hey... hopefully the upcoming linux client for eve works well. Then I'll be happy. I just hope other games start gaining linux support. The non windows market is on the rise after all, it makes sense for more games companies to try and get a foothold in that potential market. Wait... wait wait... WHAT?!?! There is going to be a Linux client? If that ever happens I will travel to Seattle and burn every Microsoft related disk I have right on their door step. I dual booted linux/windos for a few months but was forced to go back to windows because linux can't play any of my games, even with wine/Transgameing(or whatever it was called) But seeing how EVE is pretty much the only game I play anymore, Linux FTW! Shareware > microsoft monopolization
Taram Caldar Sturmgrenadier Inc R i s e	Posted - 2007.09.28 15:17:00 - [28] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 28/09/2007 15:17:39 Originally by: Phil Miller Vista is doing fantastic actually. Also, there haven't been too many "bugs" discovered with Vista. I'm sorry, I think VISTA is just fine as a business OS, as far as it goes, but for gaming platforms it's terrible. And where on earth do you figure it hasn't had any bugs discovered? In it's first 4 months there were over 86 hotfixes created. It's curently somewhere over 100 and they haven't even bundled SP1 yet. I agree, it's sold well. But most people that I know who bought it initially have returned to XP at this point. Especially hard-core gamers. Yes, you can beef up your hardware to be able to run vista as well as you ran XP. But that same hardware running XP can run circles around Vista. So why upgrade the OS? For business? It's phenomenal (as long as they don't have any legacy apps that don't play well with it) for average home users? It's nice. For power users and hard core gamers? It's abyssmal.
Laboratus Gallente BGG League of Abnormal Gentlemen	Posted - 2007.09.28 15:31:00 - [29] All in all I'm not at all impressed with Vista. When xp support runs out, I'm just gonna move full time to linux... ___ P.S. Post with your main. Mind control and tin hats
Asperger Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.28 15:35:00 - [30] Vista is broken by design. I have an operating system to manage my hardware and run my programs effeciently. I do not buy hardware to run my operating system and so that the applications can survive on the fringes.
Scrap Brain	Posted - 2007.09.28 15:37:00 - [31] I run vista. It is much more stable than XP ever was, I've not crashed since I installed it about a year ago. Not once - not even any odd behaviour - which considering my PC is never turned off/out of use is rather good going ^_^ Previously XP would jitter about, it would blue screen, etc, the crap you expected from MS. The only alternative was linux and back then linux was really not up to the tasks I had in mind (media, gaming, general randomness), and is still lacking in light of my recent dabblings with mandriva, opensuse and Debian. Getting better though. tbh I let people chose what they like most and what works best for them, rather that what I use or think would be best for them. and demonising microsoft is old and tired, make intelligent, informational comments or please, stfu. and to the OP, you had a valid point until you came out with the anti-vista rubbish.
Falkrich Swifthand	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:08:00 - [32] Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 28/09/2007 16:13:05 Vista uses more memory than XP intentionally. In XP, the contents of each window AREN'T STORED, which is why windows leave trails, blank out, paste into each other etc when a program crashes. It also causes programs to have to redraw large areas of themselves when other windows move about, which in some programs is very expensive. Other programs just ask for a separate buffer and copy from that to the screen when asked to redraw, which adds extra memory cost. This also causes problems for drawing hardware-accelerated images to a window. Ever seen a playing video or game appear to lag behind it's window when you drag it around? In Vista, each window is automatically given it's own buffer in memory (about 3MB for a 1024x768 window), and so doesn't have to redraw when it moves, or other windows move, or on minimize/restore. It does have to copy all the windows to the same buffer for display every frame, but even a weak 4-year-old graphics card makes that a quick and simple task. This massively reduces the amount of processing that happens when just moving windows around, and improves the user experience by removing nearly all graphical glitches. It does increase the memory requirements though. It's also much easier on the programmer this way.
Bishman82 Racketeers	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:10:00 - [33] I had the offer of a free copy of Vista ultimate when i last formatted my machine, i decided to try it out and whenever it starts to cause me problems i'll go back to XP. That was a few months ago and i still haven't switched back, i actually like it quite a lot. There is one piece of hardware that doesn't have vista drivers and that's my bluetooth adaptor, everything else works great, most games are just as fast FPS wise as in XP and some newer games actually run better. If people didn't move on to new operating systems because of the faster pc requirements, we would probably still be stuck with windows 3.11 and 16-bit software. At the moment XP is going to be the better choice if you want to get 100% speed out of your old hardware and better compatibility etc.
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:21:00 - [34] Originally by: Scrap Brain I run vista. It is much more stable than XP ever was, I've not crashed since I installed it about a year ago. Not once - not even any odd behaviour - which considering my PC is never turned off/out of use is rather good going ^_^ Previously XP would jitter about, it would blue screen, etc, the crap you expected from MS. The only alternative was linux and back then linux was really not up to the tasks I had in mind (media, gaming, general randomness), and is still lacking in light of my recent dabblings with mandriva, opensuse and Debian. Getting better though. tbh I let people chose what they like most and what works best for them, rather that what I use or think would be best for them. and demonising microsoft is old and tired, make intelligent, informational comments or please, stfu. and to the OP, you had a valid point until you came out with the anti-vista rubbish. I do not believe a word you said. The only way you have no problems with Vista is if you install it and just leave it running. For people who actually USE the OS to run intense applications, its a different story. I had a valid point until my Anti-Vista rubbish... LOL.. did you read the title of the post? I dont see how me not liking Vista makes my point any less valid. Thanks for contributing
Paulo Damarr	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:24:00 - [35] Logic is whats failing here, "Some of my software doesn't work right!" is the the largest complaint and people are only to ready to blame vista when its a two way street its as much the software manufacturers fault for not having updates ready and its not like that they didnt have advance warning. I Have run vista pretty much since release and I didn't really choose it but I just built a new machine and didn't want to pay for the licence on a outgoing OS so I bought Vista. For the first few months there was problems with some games and software due to buggy drivers but after a few updates and some MS updates vista is pretty much perfect and in last 6 months I have had zero crashes and that's a massive improvement on XP. All Vista needs is better hardware and more modern software to run well and then its much better than XP.
Asperger Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:27:00 - [36] Originally by: Falkrich Swifthand Edited by: Falkrich Swifthand on 28/09/2007 16:13:05 Vista uses more memory than XP intentionally. In XP, the contents of each window AREN'T STORED, which is why windows leave trails, blank out, paste into each other etc when a program crashes. It also causes programs to have to redraw large areas of themselves when other windows move about, which in some programs is very expensive. Other programs just ask for a separate buffer and copy from that to the screen when asked to redraw, which adds extra memory cost. This also causes problems for drawing hardware-accelerated images to a window. Ever seen a playing video or game appear to lag behind it's window when you drag it around? In Vista, each window is automatically given it's own buffer in memory (about 3MB for a 1024x768 window), and so doesn't have to redraw when it moves, or other windows move, or on minimize/restore. It does have to copy all the windows to the same buffer for display every frame, but even a weak 4-year-old graphics card makes that a quick and simple task. This massively reduces the amount of processing that happens when just moving windows around, and improves the user experience by removing nearly all graphical glitches. It does increase the memory requirements though. It's also much easier on the programmer this way. Actually, this is complete nonsense. Even if it weren't, by your calculation having around 20 windows open would only result in +60 mb of memory used, which is a pitifully small amount for most modern systems. The fact is, Vista just implemented better window management than XP, something GNU/Linux had for ages by now. People tout the new Aero interface as something great and something that obviously needs beefy hardware, but the fact is Compiz/Beryl/Fusion on linux runs better effects on an old computer. Vista memory management is quite messed up, because it tries to be omniscient, ie. determine which programs you'll use, so a complete nonsense. (Bash the OS for the right reasons, caching memory is OK, if it is unused anyway, but it has to be accessible for applications on demand)
Soy Black	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:30:00 - [37] Wasn't gonna - but I'll add my thoughts too lol... ANYWAY - Vista was the most frustrating thing to cross over too - I started on it in RC1... last november or so... Some of THEIR OWN development software (visual studio) wouldn't run on it - as a small software developer - that's a huge problem. By release for the public - they fixed that. I had REALLY smooth sailing for about 6 months - since then - some of the hotfixes have caused more problems and have resulted in a need to rebuild my computer with data loss. The problem with Vista is WHEN you have a crash - it can be more severe than previous versions of vista - where any data that you hadn't backed up is so screwy you lose it. The most rediculious thing of Vista is my MacBook Pro which is a year old runs Vista better than the $3300 Dell laptop I purchased... Not sure how that's supposed to work... but yeah. :P Anyway - there is DX10 hope for XP users - as there are rumors MS will be making an XP version of it... We'll just have to wait and see... (There are also groups of programmers working on a project to make it work on XP... we'll see how they do.) But yeah - if you are on XP - stick there until SP1 in Q1 of next year. Or get a mac... vista runs REALLY well under bootcamp. :)
Scrap Brain	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:38:00 - [38] Originally by: MasterEnt I do not believe a word you said. Someone has a differing opinion to me! I shall cover my eyes and wail, for they must be lying! Whaaaa, Whaaaaa..... I'll say something else I use IE 7 because it's better than firefox. MasterEnt's head explodes
Postlatta Mouseanon Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:53:00 - [39] Man. All this over "XP Millennium Edition"?
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.09.28 16:55:00 - [40] Originally by: Scrap Brain Originally by: MasterEnt I do not believe a word you said. I use IE 7 because it's better than firefox. MasterEnt's head explodes HAHAHAHA.. LOL.. yep, it just did ;) But now I know that either: A) You are just flaming, or B) You truly have no idea what you are talking about. Regardless, I am surprised this caused such a stir. What is going to drive you even crazier is that in the interest of not living in the past (as someone said), and truly wanting to move ahead, ill probably dump MS all together and go Mac. The Mac OS has always been ahead and the new one is TRULY an evolution in efficiency, speed and stability, not this bloated pipe-dream called Windows. And now that EVE is making a client for Macs... sweet.
Soy Black	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:21:00 - [41] Wait wait wait wait... Eve is making a client for Macs???? Where the hell have I been? And yes - OS X is really fantastic. The new release - hopefully out within a few weeks - will be excellent. Mac has a way and an understanding of making things look really nice BUT in addition to looking nice - it complements functionality. Things make sense on a mac... really... Prime example - Microsoft Office... Have any of you messed around with the new one? There are droves of companies sticking with 2005 (2005 right?) cause the new version's menu system is so wonky. Anyway - PLEASE CCP!!! GIVE US A MAC CLIENT!
Price Watcher	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:28:00 - [42] Anyone care to post those command line switches? Thanks. POST WITH YOUR ALT! The Shame o' The Galaxy
LordChaos Amarr Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:37:00 - [43] Vista = Crap and more crap and utterly more crap and to add MEGA CRAP downgrading to XP on this weekend . worst dam OS ever. XP was a bit annoying at first when it came out but it never was like this mega crap of a OS. Played on it eve and every other game works all like crap. Bye Bye Vista The Master Of Chaos
Ellie Marie	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:42:00 - [44] aaaaaaaaahahahahaha. love seeing all the whiners that think they know computers crying about vista. Vista only breaks if you cant run a pc for ****, those that have a clue get on with vista just fine. Not found a single reason for me to go back to xp so far, at least i can make use of all my memory with vista compared to xp
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:43:00 - [45] Originally by: MasterEnt I do not believe a word you said. The only way you have no problems with Vista is if you install it and just leave it running. For people who actually USE the OS to run intense applications, its a different story. As a counter to this- I run Vista both at home and at work, where I'm a software developer. Not long after putting together my shiny new machine, I decided to give it an informal torture test, just to see what it was really capable of, so I did the following: Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition (2 copies running, 2 different solutions open) SQL Server 2005 Enterprise Manager SQL Server 2005 Developer Edition services running. Ran SQLCMD importing the EVE database dump, which is over 500MB total. MSDN Documentation for both Visual Studio and SQL Server open Several IE windows, an IRC client and some other miscellany. 2 copies of EVE in 1900x1200 fullscreen Fraps, capturing half-size video from one copy of EVE. AVISynth and VirtualDub, filtering previously captured Fraps for a movie I was working on. Windows Movie Maker. The biggest pain point here was that I had only one hard drive, so the system got I/O-bound, which resulted in a bit of slowdown. However, this exhibited itself as merely a noticable lag when switching windows. Once an application was in the foreground (with the exception of Enterprise Manager, for some reason it always took a while to redraw), everything was fine with that app, and it was usable. Saving or loading a file did take a bit longer than normal because of all the disk activity. EVE framerates remained good even under the highest load. So, I'm going to disagree with your statement about using the OS to run intense applications. I put my system through far more than the vast majority of PCs on a regular basis, and so far Vista x64 has done things I wouldn't have dreamed of even trying on XP. And not one application compatibility issue- unless you count a broken installer putting code in the 32-bit version of "Program Files", which is easy to correct with a cut/paste. In the end, though- anecdotes aren't data. [center]
Soy Black	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Ellie Marie aaaaaaaaahahahahaha. love seeing all the whiners that think they know computers crying about vista. Vista only breaks if you cant run a pc for **, those that have a clue get on with vista just fine. Not found a single reason for me to go back to xp so far, at least i can make use of all my memory with vista compared to xp Yes lol - JUST people who "cant run a pc for **" lol...
Soy Black	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:45:00 - [47] Oh - but I didn't add... Vista did however play games better than xp on the same machine... I did find I actually gained about 5fps on my setup. Could just be my setup however. :P
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:48:00 - [48] Oh, and insofar as "failed" goes, Vista outsold XP by 2 to 1 in the first month of its release vs. XP's, and within 5 weeks of release had sold more copies than the entirety of Apple's entire installed base. If that's failure, I'll buy some stock in it.
Asperger Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.28 17:56:00 - [49] Originally by: Jimer Lins Oh, and insofar as "failed" goes, Vista outsold XP by 2 to 1 in the first month of its release vs. XP's, and within 5 weeks of release had sold more copies than the entirety of Apple's entire installed base. If that's failure, I'll buy some stock in it. XP was released in 2001 and the IT industry had double digit growth every year since then. That is bound to mess up your numbers.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:01:00 - [50] Originally by: Asperger Originally by: Jimer Lins Oh, and insofar as "failed" goes, Vista outsold XP by 2 to 1 in the first month of its release vs. XP's, and within 5 weeks of release had sold more copies than the entirety of Apple's entire installed base. If that's failure, I'll buy some stock in it. XP was released in 2001 and the IT industry had double digit growth every year since then. That is bound to mess up your numbers. Yes, there's some skew of course, but it's still very strong sales, especially compared to the predictions of dogs and cats living together + mass hysteria leading up to the release.
Pwett Minmatar QUANT Corp.	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:03:00 - [51] Pwett looks around I'm still running two computers with Windows 2k, one with Server 2003 (apparantly another failed OS), and 21 with XP. FFS people, who really cares what OS you use. _______________ Pwett CEO and Founder [QTC]QUANT Corp.
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:27:00 - [52] Originally by: Chancer Vista failed? I must have missed the Microsoft press release. It's called denial. >>> TRIBUTE TO A FALLEN WINGMAN <<<
Alitha Maru Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:35:00 - [53] I've been running dual boot XP and Vista Ultimate since January, and I got 20-30% increase in most games I've been playing with Vista. I love it. No crashes, no slowdowns. Just pure speed for me. I don't know what other people use for hardware, but it must be some strange stuff if you Vista is slower than XP. Or you just don't have enough RAM. A friend of mine curses Vista to hell and back. He can't understand why it runs like crap on his 2ghz, 1gb ram, 9800 pro system. Well, I've tried to tell him that his system is like using stone age tools. Hardware and OS is so interconnected these days, no HW really lasts for more than two years tops. Personally I upgrade to a new computer at least every 1.5 years. When the new X38 chipset is ready, I'm gonna build me a new one. And it's going to run Vista baby
Possessed Clown Amarr Spiced Wine Syndicate	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:41:00 - [54] I actually like Vista... I have a dual boot set up but once I get a second monitor ill switch. Its runs pretty dang good, the only problem I can see is the annoying run in admin mode, but I am sure their is a way to set that up to be permanent. O and I can put EVE on a flash drive I don't know about you but I can. Sig Removed. Please keep sigs to 400x120 pixels and 24000 bytes in size or less. -Kaemonn ^^^I got pwnt :(
Asperger Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:58:00 - [55] Originally by: Alitha Maru A friend of mine curses Vista to hell and back. He can't understand why it runs like crap on his 2ghz, 1gb ram, 9800 pro system. Well, I've tried to tell him that his system is like using stone age tools. Hardware and OS is so interconnected these days, no HW really lasts for more than two years tops. Can I have what you're smoking please?
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.28 18:59:00 - [56] Unless you have a computer built JUST before vista launched then you should not even THINK about installing it. For me I have had 0 issues --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Daagon Viziam	Posted - 2007.09.28 19:08:00 - [57] Originally by: Jimer Lins Oh, and insofar as "failed" goes, Vista outsold XP by 2 to 1 in the first month of its release vs. XP's, and within 5 weeks of release had sold more copies than the entirety of Apple's entire installed base. I wonder how many of these "sales" resulted in an installation that is still in use? --- You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost heap.
Theo Samaritan Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2007.09.28 19:13:00 - [58] Quote: Why was it split up anyhow ?? Vista's DRM and admin management. ______________________________ A Request About Lag Discussion -- Yet another "Edit my sig devs!" request \o/
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.09.28 19:26:00 - [59] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: MasterEnt I do not believe a word you said. The only way you have no problems with Vista is if you install it and just leave it running. For people who actually USE the OS to run intense applications, its a different story. As a counter to this- I run Vista both at home and at work, where I'm a software developer. Not long after putting together my shiny new machine, I decided to give it an informal torture test, just to see what it was really capable of, so I did the following: Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition (2 copies running, 2 different solutions open) SQL Server 2005 Enterprise Manager SQL Server 2005 Developer Edition services running. Ran SQLCMD importing the EVE database dump, which is over 500MB total. MSDN Documentation for both Visual Studio and SQL Server open Several IE windows, an IRC client and some other miscellany. 2 copies of EVE in 1900x1200 fullscreen Fraps, capturing half-size video from one copy of EVE. AVISynth and VirtualDub, filtering previously captured Fraps for a movie I was working on. Windows Movie Maker. So, I'm going to disagree with your statement about using the OS to run intense applications. I put my system through far more than the vast majority of PCs on a regular basis, and so far Vista x64 has done things I wouldn't have dreamed of even trying on XP. In the end, though- anecdotes aren't data. Well, I have not seen any data on your end either.. just a list of programs you said you ran at once. It looks like you are comparing Vista 64 bit with XP!!! XP what.. 64 bit also.. or 32. And I am sorry if you consider those intense application...LOL. Just a lot of number crunching... which windows may do fine with a good Intel chip Try running the entire creative suite full visualizations, Maya, Vue, multiple renderings (internal and networked), max out your 8 gigs of ram while using 4 drives runing at 10,000rpm totaling 1.5 TB swapping data and managing render frames. then come back and talk to me. I have not listed my credentials that include 20+ years in technical direction so lets not assume that I am clueless.. because I am the first one tell people that things are always difficult when you don't know what you are doing. PS - How does volume of sales indicate how good an OS is? Volume of sales is not very specific, most of those sales were skewed due to the fact that they include the licenses to premade systems like Dell, Gateway, IBM, Alienware. So there was no choice on that sale.. MIND YOU, those are the very manufacturers who have pressured Microsoft into releasing more XP keys. But in the end.. as my original post states.. I just would like everything back into one little folder like we had before. I know it may not be happening, but I can still say I love that aspect of the EVE client.. and it WAS Microsoft Vista that screwed that all up.
Hunters Presence Amarr Nuclear Engagement	Posted - 2007.09.28 19:42:00 - [60] Edited by: Hunters Presence on 28/09/2007 19:46:04 Edited by: Hunters Presence on 28/09/2007 19:45:59 I'll stick with reliable drivers, better SDKs, DirectSound support, less patronising messages, faster gameplay (because my resources aren't going towards the OS), better old games support, freer EULA (you're not allowed to mod Vista, or your key can be invalidated and they reserve the right to delete software on your system they don't like, etc) the ability to make more than one backup and less DRM crap (how dare you watch your DVDs on a cheap monitor rather than an overpriced HDR thing, Vista reduces the quality to below feeble) for a year or two yet. Then I'll move one of my gaming systems to Vista out of necessity. Sales numbers are worthless, since they mostly reflect OEM and business suppliers, which form the majority of Microsoft's market. Not us. Their attempt to appeal to gamers with DX10 is the most irritating and opaque piece of extortion in the history of video gaming. The idea that they couldn't have implemented it in XP is bull****, at the very least they could have definately implemented Shader Model 4... they just care about grabbing the consumer's money. I would normally be a heavy advocate of such new technology, especially with the features offered to gamers. However, Vista is a step back in terms of operating systems. It removes your rights as user in so many ways... and I imagine without the DX10/SM4 BS no gamer would feel the need to upgrade at all.
Spigoe Liberty Rogues	Posted - 2007.09.28 19:43:00 - [61] Originally by: Asperger Originally by: Alitha Maru A friend of mine curses Vista to hell and back. He can't understand why it runs like crap on his 2ghz, 1gb ram, 9800 pro system. Well, I've tried to tell him that his system is like using stone age tools. Hardware and OS is so interconnected these days, no HW really lasts for more than two years tops. Can I have what you're smoking please? My computer is just over one year old, and it's terribly outdated.
annoing Amarr The Royal Guard Giant Space Amoeba	Posted - 2007.09.28 19:56:00 - [62] Im about to build a new computer, was looking at getting a quad-core (no im not boasting, I just want something to last a few yrs and dual-sore will be replaced by quads by the end of next year), however, even though im looking a few years into the furture im not looking to use Vista. The things that scare me are compatability issues with my favourite software, DRM issues especially and the fact it just doesnt work very well atm. I dont want to wait for the SP1 release sometime next year to have confidence in my OS. I dont want to be told by windows whether I can or I cannot back up my movies (here in the UK its legally allowed to make back-ups of all your games, music and movies) so back off Bill and let me do my own thing under my own countries laws. And I dont want to have to rebuy my software so I can use it on Vista. (PS cs2 anyone? Nero? Neither of these companies have provided compatability patches for their older software, they want you to buy the new versions). So no, its XP all the way. Maybe when im building my next new one in a few years time i'll look at vista. Or maybe i'll be linux or Mac
MasterEnt	Posted - 2007.09.28 20:07:00 - [63] Ohh.. as if they knew we were having this very discussion... ExtendedWinXP Extended
Red Harvest	Posted - 2007.09.28 20:17:00 - [64] As long as every game and work program runs fine on my PC i certainly wont change my OS! And anyways the Vista successor (codename "Vienna") is already planned for late 2009, i think i will be fine until then with my XP.
digitalwanderer Gallente Archon Industries	Posted - 2007.09.28 20:52:00 - [65] Just so you know,here's some more DX10 performance numbers,using all the latest higher end cards,even in dual card configurations,and the numbers overall are depressing,when compared to the same game in running in DX9 mode,with huge performance hits in some cases. http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/geforce_radeon_directx_10_performance_update/ Basically,it's not encouraging users to move to Vista for it's DX10 support over XP,to say the least.
Amanita Muscaria	Posted - 2007.09.28 21:27:00 - [66] It's all about selling a bucketful of same old crap with a new stinkier flavour.
JoDirt Minmatar Tides of Silence Hydra Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.28 21:41:00 - [67] Vista is working great for me. I like XP a lot too, I run it in a virtual machine. I have a couple of linux VMs as well. OS wars are old and silly. It's kind of like two people sitting around and arguing about televisions or refrigerators. In the end, if you're happy good, if you're not happy then buy/acquire something that makes you happy. We don't all have to like the same OS. oh and OP vista is fine learn 2 compute
K'yrin	Posted - 2007.09.28 21:47:00 - [68] I liked NT . Seriously, it was single most stable version of windows I've used, though XP is great as well.
Gavriel Black Amarr Pandaemonium's Children	Posted - 2007.09.28 21:47:00 - [69] Originally by: JoDirt Vista is working great for me. I like XP a lot too, I run it in a virtual machine. I have a couple of linux VMs as well. OS wars are old and silly. It's kind of like two people sitting around and arguing about televisions or refrigerators. In the end, if you're happy good, if you're not happy then buy/acquire something that makes you happy. We don't all have to like the same OS. oh and OP vista is fine learn 2 compute Totally agree, my friend is trying to get me to "buy" vista, but i'm happy with xp... really can't be bothered with wasting time installing it when xp is still going strong.
Dimagus	Posted - 2007.09.28 21:59:00 - [70] The biggest problem I have with Vista, or Microsoft in general, is they don't want to recognize that it's your computer. You own it, you run it, you do whatever the hell you want with it. A new product is supposed to offer either something novel/revolutionary and/or stream-line what is already working. Vista does neither, instead they generated compatability problems, forced design changes and revisions on other manufactures, and failed in making significant performance gains. The only "improvements" are DX10 and 64bit for increased RAM. XP can already be 64bit, and DX10 is not impressing and may not even be "exclusive" to Vista
RC Denton	Posted - 2007.09.28 22:03:00 - [71] I can't understand how anyone could actually be ok with Vista. Even if it worked great, buttered your toast, and did your laundry for you. Just read the EULA on it, really read it. You pretty much forfeit the right to any data you have stored on that machine for all time to MS and it's partners (read RIAA and MPA). It's a spyware OS where if you do stuff they don't like they can shut you down and even brick your hardware (i.e. driver revocation). So forget Vista.
Abel Lin	Posted - 2007.09.28 22:16:00 - [72] Microsoft employees are using XP. What does THAT say? I'm sure it's not all of them, but a friend who works for them has told me "Nobody here is using Vista. They all hate it."
Dimagus	Posted - 2007.09.28 22:21:00 - [73] Microsoft servers run Linux, what does THAT say?
Gavriel Black Amarr Pandaemonium's Children	Posted - 2007.09.28 22:31:00 - [74] Originally by: Dimagus Microsoft servers run Linux, what does THAT say? Rofl, never knew that... made me lol
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 22:39:00 - [75] Originally by: RC Denton I can't understand how anyone could actually be ok with Vista. Even if it worked great, buttered your toast, and did your laundry for you. Just read the EULA on it, really read it. You pretty much forfeit the right to any data you have stored on that machine for all time to MS and it's partners (read RIAA and MPA). It's a spyware OS where if you do stuff they don't like they can shut you down and even brick your hardware (i.e. driver revocation). So forget Vista. I just read the EULA; have you? Can you point to the portions of it that back up these claims? Exploration Video.
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 22:44:00 - [76] Originally by: Dimagus Microsoft servers run Linux, what does THAT say? They do not. I think Hotmail's servers ran on Linux when they first acquired them. But visit any MS site and you'll see that they're hosted on IIS using ASP and ASP.NET, which certainly doesn't run on Linux. Exploration Video.
Asperger Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.09.28 23:07:00 - [77] Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Dimagus Microsoft servers run Linux, what does THAT say? They do not. I think Hotmail's servers ran on Linux when they first acquired them. But visit any MS site and you'll see that they're hosted on IIS using ASP and ASP.NET, which certainly doesn't run on Linux. They do. Microsoft generates content with IIS/ASP, but uses Akamai to actually serve content and they use linux.
nekosun	Posted - 2007.09.28 23:15:00 - [78] On my Asus laptop Vista has problems with things i have never seen in any Os. Mouse clicking right through search boxes, click boxs etc.. windows just lose focus on clicking. .. fix is to relog the user, unitl fixed (5 relogs the record so far) unless you want to use the modem ( modem will call, but will not verify username/password). .. modem users have to restart to fix this the media player seems to stutter @ about 75% of some video clips (calling home to RIIA? lol)
Jimer Lins Gallente Sanctuary	Posted - 2007.09.28 23:24:00 - [79] Originally by: Asperger Originally by: Jimer Lins Originally by: Dimagus Microsoft servers run Linux, what does THAT say? They do not. I think Hotmail's servers ran on Linux when they first acquired them. But visit any MS site and you'll see that they're hosted on IIS using ASP and ASP.NET, which certainly doesn't run on Linux. They do. Microsoft generates content with IIS/ASP, but uses Akamai to actually serve content and they use linux. Incorrect. Akamai provides distributed DNS and caching services for DNS to protect against DDoS attacks. They switched to Akamai's DNS systems in 2003 after the Blaster Worm was set to target Windows Update. DNS is not content, it's address resolution. Netcraft Reports that Microsoft.com runs IIS 7. Exploration Video.
Plokk	Posted - 2007.09.29 01:26:00 - [80] I've been running Vista since May . Not one problem . Can't say that XP was that good out of the box;) And currently playing Crysis Beta , with COD 4 coming soon also . Imo , EVE may lose a few players when they both hit the shelves .
Lia Darklotus	Posted - 2007.09.29 01:35:00 - [81] Doesn't matter as Microsoft already announced that they will launch a new OS codenamed SEVEN in 3 years. So VISTA will have a short shelf life as it is right now. Also Microsoft has extended the availability of XP to meet demand.
Price Watcher	Posted - 2007.09.29 04:53:00 - [82] Originally by: Frug As much as vista is a useless piece of junk for people who get suckered into paying for nothing at all, and as much as I'd love for it to go away, it's not a failure. The market is full of people who will buy it just because they can. Well said. Now complete the following sentance. "A fool and his money are soon....." A: Married. B: Taxed. C: Parted. POST WITH YOUR ALT! The Shame o' The Galaxy
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.09.29 04:54:00 - [83] all of the above? 1987.08.31 00:29:09 Combat Your Smooth Criminal perfectly strikes Annie, wrecking for A Crescendo.
Dred'Pirate Jesus Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2007.09.29 06:57:00 - [84] I'll buy Vista when they do like they did with 98SE and cut off all support for it and literally force me into buying it to be able to keep using my computer.. And to this day the programs that will run under both 98SE and XP perform scads better under 98SE on the same machine with 98SE dual booted on it.. The unpatched version of Dawn of War runs at least 20 fps faster on 98 than it does on XP on the same machine.. I'd test the patched version but like M$ they killed all ability to run it on less than XP.. Like earlier posters mentioned if your running Vista and have good performance then dump it and go back to XP for a huge increase in performance in the majority of cases.. Originally by: David Hackworth ò If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
zilllii Squirrel Power	Posted - 2007.09.29 12:55:00 - [85] http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9785337-7.html? nuff said. -------------------------------------------------- Originally by: Flinx Evenstar Love the new need for speed initiative. Pilots involved in a fleet battle can post on the forum and get a reply about wha
Akally Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2007.09.29 13:09:00 - [86] vista sucks and PC gaming is on the way out for pretty much 1 single reason, M$ want you to buy an XBOX360 for games, look at the way they have botched dx10, there was a post on this topic on Slashdot.com a while back and you should read it - it's not tin foil hat stuff when there is so much to supporting evidence
fartmask	Posted - 2007.09.29 13:44:00 - [87] Originally by: Spaceman Jack Can we please get the EVE cleitn back into the nice package it was before!!! Having the folders all spread out really blows I miss having all my EVE ready to travel with me on a flash drive. Any Computer.. any time PLEASE PLEASE... Screw Vista. yawn, Windows 95 is crap its dead dont use it... windows 98 is dead no one use it windown me is dead/crap no one use it windows 2000 is bad dont use that windows xp is the worse dont use that windows vista is bad mkay...... so by your standard we should all use linux? no thanks.
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.09.29 16:15:00 - [88] Originally by: fartmask Originally by: Spaceman Jack Can we please get the EVE cleitn back into the nice package it was before!!! Having the folders all spread out really blows I miss having all my EVE ready to travel with me on a flash drive. Any Computer.. any time PLEASE PLEASE... Screw Vista. yawn, Windows 95 is crap its dead dont use it... windows 98 is dead no one use it windown me is dead/crap no one use it windows 2000 is bad dont use that windows xp is the worse dont use that windows vista is bad mkay...... so by your standard we should all use linux? no thanks. Mmmm.. Dont quite remember stating that. If you can find where I said that... if not.. thanks for contributing to nothing. No doubt the each new OS (or ANYTHING NEW for that matter) has its need to be exposed to the public scrutiny and subsequent fixing. One key difference, that each "doom and gloom" scenario was slightly more optimistic than the one before it, this is the first time that it has taken a step backwards. IMHO OS should be meaner and leaner han the one before it.. one of the defining charachteristics of IMPROVED technologu is that each version that come out can do it faster, better, cheaper and leaner that the version before. We simply do not have that here. Vista is bloated, fattened on MS need to control every aspect of what we do.
Alitha Maru Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.09.29 16:15:00 - [89] Edited by: Alitha Maru on 29/09/2007 16:16:30 Edited by: Alitha Maru on 29/09/2007 16:15:52 Originally by: zilllii http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9785337-7.html? nuff said. Very amusing article. Reminds me of the adolescent discussions of old Amiga vs. PC. I'm amazed that some people actually wants to be taken seriously on this topic, and then rounds it all of with As a daily user of Mac OS X, Ubuntu and Vista, I'm keenly aware of what works and what doesn't. Mac and Linux work. If someone thinks that you should be able to run all future OSs on a P2 200mhz, 128mb ram with a Matrox Millennium II card then good luck. Hardware evolves, and so does OSs. OSs needs better hardware, hardware needs better OSs. If you have a good computer, with at least 2 GB ram, you should have no problem what so ever with Vista. Unless it's the first time you're behind a keyboard, then it might be a little daunting but so was XP to the likes of my mother. Get good hardware, and Vista runs as smooth as silk. Want to use your old computer for a few more years, stick with XP. Pretty much it.
Nobum Amarr dabster Corp	Posted - 2007.09.29 16:25:00 - [90] kinda funny how this topic barely reached 5 replies before it got derailed into some forumwar over how good or bad Vista is, completly ignoring exactly what the OP wants _______________________________
Mordinn The Bones Brigade	Posted - 2007.09.29 16:35:00 - [91] Edited by: Mordinn on 29/09/2007 16:36:48 Edited by: Mordinn on 29/09/2007 16:36:01 Originally by: Chancer Vista failed? I must have missed the Microsoft press release. <----Click Him, hes laughing.
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.09.29 18:32:00 - [92] Originally by: Nobum kinda funny how this topic barely reached 5 replies before it got derailed into some forumwar over how good or bad Vista is, completly ignoring exactly what the OP wants TAHNK YOU
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.09.29 20:51:00 - [93] Originally by: Phil Miller Vista is doing fantastic actually. According to retailers and distributors, the first week sales have been above their expectations. The most popular version that sold was the Home Edition, but the biggest surprise was probably that the Vista Ultimate (the full feature and most expensive version of the operating system) sold in high numbers. Of course, Microsoft was happy with it all. Also, there haven't been too many "bugs" discovered with Vista, which is great. Of course, there are always the compatibility issues, but those are things that will work themselves out in due time. I'm sure people are really happy with the black box that records every button press and mouseclick too, and that removing the file causes vista to lock you out of your own PC. -------------- Fulfilling 0.0 Ammo needs since 2 days after being made.
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.09.29 22:35:00 - [94] Originally by: Scrap Brain I use IE 7 because it's better than firefox. B+ Flamebait. -------------- Fulfilling 0.0 Ammo needs since 2 days after being made.
Hyuuga Veralis Pator Tech School	Posted - 2007.09.29 22:40:00 - [95] Originally by: Jimer Lins Oh, and insofar as "failed" goes, Vista outsold XP by 2 to 1 in the first month of its release vs. XP's, and within 5 weeks of release had sold more copies than the entirety of Apple's entire installed base. If that's failure, I'll buy some stock in it. The Market has more than doubled in size since then. In raw numbers Vista sold better, but by comparison, it has sold worse. -------------- Fulfilling 0.0 Ammo needs since 2 days after being made.
Ix Forres Vanguard Frontiers INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.09.29 22:55:00 - [96] Edited by: Ix Forres on 29/09/2007 23:00:30 Originally by: Arachidamia But hey... hopefully the upcoming linux client for eve works well. Then I'll be happy. I just hope other games start gaining linux support. The non windows market is on the rise after all, it makes sense for more games companies to try and get a foothold in that potential market. It would be notable to mention that VALVe (Half-Life 2 and all the mods, like TF2 and Counter-Strike Source) are now hiring Linux programmers, preferably with experience in 'porting Microsoft Windows games to the Linux operating system'. On a side note, did anyone notice MS have extended XP's lifespan by 6 months because businesses were running scared to Linux as the only possible upgrade path? Originally by: Akally vista sucks and PC gaming is on the way out for pretty much 1 single reason, M$ want you to buy an XBOX360 for games, look at the way they have botched dx10, there was a post on this topic on Slashdot.com a while back and you should read it - it's not tin foil hat stuff when there is so much to supporting evidence PC gaming is strong as ever. Yes, the console market is big. But it's still small comparative to the PC market. Originally by: fartmask yawn, Windows 95 is crap its dead dont use it... windows 98 is dead no one use it windown me is dead/crap no one use it windows 2000 is bad dont use that windows xp is the worse dont use that windows vista is bad mkay...... so by your standard we should all use linux? no thanks. 95 was crap. 98 was crap. ME was crap. 2000? Nice OS. Based on the NT kernel which didn't crash as much as the 95 kernel. XP? 2K with a facelift and some UI improvements. Nice. Same kernel as 2K. Vista? Total rewrite in which they made it worse. Oops. Better stick with XP. Oh, what's that? End of support life? Well, better upgrade! So, where do we-, ah, hello there Ubuntu. ISKsense \| Blog
Karanth Gallente Cirrius Technologies O X I D E	Posted - 2007.09.29 23:09:00 - [97] Ubuntu here too. Faster, smoother, and doesn't do random things like BSoD, or just shut off, or randomly reset settings, or delete bookmarks, etc.. Free beer for those who mod my sig! There is only one sig hijack that matters, the orginal and only member of the hijack squad. me. -Eris. ps Black russians are better then beer. I'll see your beer, and raise you a goat kebab -Tirg I'll take that pint and raise you two -Timmeh I bet 2 goats, 1 pint and a bag of slugs -Lordharold I grab it all, cook it/eat and drink it all and say thank you. -Pirlouit I'll call your bluff, and go all in on 3 locks of Hutch's hair. -Incognus I'll see that bet, depending on where the hair came from. -Rauth pushes the other mods out of the way Mmmm, bree - Karass Bree & goat kebabs!!! I'm in!! - Yips IT WAS ME, MUHAHAHA. -Hango How did I miss free BREE!!? -Kaemonn always fashionably late - Deckard Better late than never! -Sahwoolo
Bentula	Posted - 2007.09.29 23:36:00 - [98] I dont get why people get into these OS wars. I dont even get why people want to upgrade their OS unless it is to get support for new hardware, and from what i heard vista actually has worse support for many kinds of hardware that is currently around. So why upgrade to vista? To get a new desktop theme? DX10 support? Will vista revolutionize the way i run eve and the couple other games on my PC? Also i have the feeling MS is doing something horribly wrong with vista, a OS is not supposed to draw that many resources that it would be noticeable on even a few years old hardware. You have the kernel and drivers, some grafics engine and a desktop manager, and then whatever services the system needs. Nothing in that list should force a PC that can do a couple millions calculations per second and has a dedicated 3d card to its knees. An OS primary purpose is to execute and provide a enviroment to programs that are actually useful to you, like games, office programs or the various programs you use in the web. If the OS is outpacing your programs/games in the system requirements department there is something wrong.
Mr M	Posted - 2007.09.30 00:53:00 - [99] DX10 is do-able on Windows XP DirectX 9.L will be a DirectX 10 for Windows XP Project aims to bring DX10 gaming to XP, Linux, OS X Download DirectX 10 for Windows XP from Alky Project EVEgeek \| EVE Tribune
Arana Tellen Gallente The Blackguard Wolves Knights Of the Southerncross	Posted - 2007.09.30 00:56:00 - [100] Originally by: nekosun On my Asus laptop Vista has problems with things i have never seen in any Os. Mouse clicking right through search boxes, click boxs etc.. windows just lose focus on clicking. .. fix is to relog the user, unitl fixed (5 relogs the record so far) unless you want to use the modem ( modem will call, but will not verify username/password). .. modem users have to restart to fix this the media player seems to stutter @ about 75% of some video clips (calling home to RIIA? lol) A friend of mine had problems with their mouse, I would try uninstalling the POS norton --------------------------------- Core 2 Duo E4300 1.8ghz @ 3ghz, 2GB Gskill DDR2 5400 @ 800mhh 4-4-4-12, Abit fatality mATX F-I90HD @ 334mhz, 8800GTS 320mb 2x250GB 7200.10s Raid 0, Vista 64 Home.
Sevarus James Minmatar Meridian Dynamics FREGE Alliance	Posted - 2007.09.30 01:29:00 - [101] Edited by: Sevarus James on 30/09/2007 01:32:11 I personally don't like the "os wars" either, having lost in one horribly many years ago (os/2). As a tech in the industry for almost 20 years now, I've always said: USE WHAT WORKS BEST FOR YOU! Personally for the last three years, what's worked best is linux. For the last two (almost) I've been MS free at home and playing EVE with very little issue other than a few patch day blues. Now that CCP is prepping the linux/mac builds with Transgaming (closed beta is ON for this week), there is even less reason to stay hooked to one platform. Vista has been a p.r. disaster for microsoft. Leads in the industry are almost universally of the opinion that they jumped the shark with this platform in many MANY ways, not the least of which is the draconian EULA as well as the DRM checks that cause a lot of users serious problems with media content. There will ALWAYS be users who have no issues with one OS or another, and BRAVO to you. Just remember that there are more than one OS in play, and a lot of folks (especially on the tech side of things) understand some of the massive screwups that Microsoft employed in Vista. Again, CCP moved the folder structure to be in compliance so that EVE would work under Vista properly (or at least as well as it could). They also gave us the /lua switch to by pass it for the most part, and having tried this at work on windows machines there, I have to say that it works pretty well. There are also scripts out that will completely get rid of the external folders. Remember that CCP is also working to ensure that EVE works with linux and mac as well, and have endorsed the major distros as goals to be 'OFFICIALLY SUPPORTED' (dev words here.) Rather than harp and fight over which is which, we should, as a community of pod pilots HELP to resolve issues no matter WHICH platform the pilot chooses to use. My 2 cents. My sig shows my preferred OS and EVE, but my opinion is that whatever works for YOU is best. Er...it WOULD show you, but Chribba says a hard drive pwnd the pic.....so hopefully it will show my preferred os and eve soon (tm). lol Ubuntu 3d Beryl-Linux Desktop+EVE
Marc Zhorr Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2007.09.30 02:34:00 - [102] Edited by: Marc Zhorr on 30/09/2007 02:35:35 I guess it is a bit of a matter of personal preference which OS to use. Some love linux, some Mac OS, some w2k/xp, some vista. Had Vista Business preinstalled on my notebook, and hated it. It had a status bar for opening windows , some windows took over 5 secs to open. Eve took about 20 secs till the login screen was loaded When playing music with the windows media player, I got an option to BUY the songs I played (Ripped stuff from CDs I own - so wtf???) Is it an OS or an online shop??? When configuring the OS I got all sorts of assistants, trying to tell me what I should or should not do Also vista was loaded with useless (IMO) gimmicks. And I hear Vista got all sorts of reporting mechanisms to MS built in, way more then w2k or XP. Now some might like these features of vista, and those should keep it on. My fav is w2k. Because it is slim, lightweight, fast as hell and has little gimmicks. So good ole w2k is now running on my brandnew notebook and I love it.
Alitha Maru Minmatar Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2007.09.30 04:58:00 - [103] Another thing that we might oversee is why we all differ so much in our opinions, is that we might all be on different user levels as far as OSs is concerned. If you install Vista and just start using it without tweaking, optimizing and turning off UAC and things you don't want or need then I would imagine Vista would seem strange at best. But after you turn off the clutter, it runs very fast, stable, providing you have enough ram at least. Then some of us might not even bother with IE or WMP. Myself, I use Media Player Classic, WinAmp and Firefox. Vista out-of-the-box needs to be tweaked before enjoyment, and if you use Firefox or Opera instead of IE you'll be better off too. But all this was true for XP as well. If you didn't tweak XP before you started using it, then you certainly missed out on making it faster too. Novice people might find Vista daunting, Linux/Mac people will always hate Windows no matter what and are probably leftovers from the Amiga side when that discussion vs. PC went on . Though people that are used to Windows and tweaking it all the way back to Win95 should be able to have a good time. In the end, opinions are like a**holes, everyone's got'em
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.10.08 13:07:00 - [104] Not to beat a dead horse.. but... Win XP SP3!
Krezeb Caldari Ginnungagaps Rymdfarargille Tre Kroner	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:04:00 - [105] IMHO, MS released Vista too early. If they'd taken another 6 months-1 year to polish the OS, get reliable drivers together and work out the kinks, then it probably would have been bashed less. Another problem is that a computer made to run Vista efficiantly costs more than most are willing to pay (atm at least), so that those that are trying to run Vista on anything less than a Vista-ready computer will have problems getting programs and games to run smoothly. Another thing is that I don't like the overall Big-Brother aspect of Vista, running DRM checks on every process, activly worsening quality on HD-DVDs if I'm not using a Microsoft approved monitor, and having companies such as Sony & Disney among others, approving hardware. It feels like we've taken one step forward and two steps back. I'm not bashing MS or vista, but critisism, both positive and negative (as long as they're constructive) should be welcomed. I won't be making a move to Vista if I can help it. Well, at least not yet. ----- New Sig Pending....
Kagura Nikon Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:18:00 - [106] Originally by: Ix Forres PC gaming is strong as ever. Yes, the console market is big. But it's still small comparative to the PC market. PC gaming market is running at around 20% of the Gaming market of consoles. If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough
Reacz Caldari Empirius Enigmus Navy Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:34:00 - [107] Edited by: Reacz on 08/10/2007 15:34:40 Ya know if you hate Vista so much you can always move over to Windows 2k3 its better than XP (faster/more streamlined and not as many bugs) and is still under support for a while yet I believe. And yeah, its a server edition, so you shouldn't be using it but bleh, who cares....right? :P
Kayna Eelai	Posted - 2007.10.08 15:35:00 - [108] to all those "my vista runs much more smoother than my xp ever did"... stop talking out of your arse, willya? you probably didn't even have SP2 on your XP, no antivir or anything and it was full of spyware with sugar on top pretty plz. my main computer at home runs XP, didn't have to reboot it a single time for last 6 month except once i screwed up myself hotpluggin a s-ata disk into the wrong place (my mainboard has 2 s-ata raids, one with and another without hotplug compatibility) vista can not even receive the name of a operating system, it's more like a TV SHOW. just to give you a plain example: to create a VPN and it's shortcut on desktop in win XP: my mom could do it in 2 minutes. to do it on vista, a computer tech manager needed 5 minutes to figure out how the hell get it all working. vista was designed BY and FOR monkeys.
gooer	Posted - 2007.10.08 16:00:00 - [109] Originally by: Ni'an running eve on vista for months, never had any problem same here.. 2 copies of eve running flawlessly at 200+ fps (stupid "power of 2" promotion sucked me in) with aa level set to 2 at 1680x1050.. the flip 3d thing in vista is funny (and fast) as hell with multiple copies of eve running. I just did a reload on my system (not related to any eve issues) this weekend with updated everything. Vista's time has finally come. Anyone who moans and groans about vista anymore are either whiney noobs that haven't tried vista, or they are your typical "afraid of any type of change and afraid that terrorists are going to bomb their local grocery".. get over it people, vista kicks @$$! never saw eve launch this fast in XP.. Come to think of it, prior to my reload/updating driver binge, Eve was one of the very few games that ran without crashing.
Minertor	Posted - 2007.10.08 17:49:00 - [110] vista working fine here maybe i can ask a directx 10 for eve?
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2007.10.08 18:03:00 - [111] Originally by: Alitha Maru and are probably leftovers from the Amiga side when that discussion vs. PC went on . Aargh - I'm found. Pity that EVE does not run well on Amiga. As far as XP (and windows in general) goes. I'm using it only bcos I can't play some of the games I like under linux and I don't like to dualboot. I do not plan to switch to Vista tho even if only thing I can play is tetris afterwards. I think vista violates it's users privacy.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.10.08 18:12:00 - [112] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 08/10/2007 18:12:42 Originally by: Hyuuga Veralis I'm sure people are really happy with the black box that records every button press and mouseclick too, and that removing the file causes vista to lock you out of your own PC. Tinfoil hat much? Originally by: Liz Kali Tic Toc Tic Toc , time is ticking Originally by: CCP John Proctor Gates made from your nearest scrap yard can only be so space effecient
Angry Lo	Posted - 2007.10.08 19:53:00 - [113] Originally by: Reacz Edited by: Reacz on 08/10/2007 15:43:14 Ya know if you hate Vista so much you can always move over to Windows 2k3 its better than XP (faster/more streamlined and not as many bugs) and is still under support for a while yet I believe. Well i'm not an OP. But I had to move to XP a year(or something like that) ago becasue of the end of the support cycle for win2k and subsequent issues with viruses. If not for that i'd be still sitting on win2k. And you know what - i had dual win2k/xp system for 4 years and never even thought about switching to XP becasue win2k was simply better and faster. And given that Vista has a new kernel - i shudder. But obviously unless there will be no dx10 for XP i'd have to move to Vista
Maestro Ulv Phaze-9	Posted - 2007.10.08 20:14:00 - [114] To the OP: So your complaining about having the pics n stuff in your documents? Not exactly hard work to find em is it? I must be an MS ***** because I have no problems with Vista bar the nuked BT Stack not working with my BT headphones. Bar that one issue it runs both business, social and gaming software with no issues at all. I'm not bored, I'm merely in the Queue.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2007.10.08 20:15:00 - [115] Originally by: Karanth Ubuntu here too. Faster, smoother, and doesn't do random things like BSoD, or just shut off, or randomly reset settings, or delete bookmarks, etc.. I've not known a version of Windows do anything like that since Win98. I've put Win2k and XP through hell at work adding and removing devices, writing my own device drivers and developing applications for Win32 and .NET. My machines have never, ever crashed. OTOH I have frequently had to fight my way through various Linux installers including the almost obligatory package library otherwise known as Google. I now know more than I want to about X-Windows simply because I've had to finish and/or manually patch so many several failed installs. Of course once you finally get Linux installed it's stable and fast - slightly faster than Windows, not quite as stable (but we're talking minor differences in both areas). Great as a server. As a workstation though..meh. The screen updates always feel a bit klunky as if, somehow, it just isn't really happy operating in graphics mode. I've played with Vista quite a bit recently and although I wish MS hadn't changed so much of the interface once you take the time to get used to it performance is much the same as XP - better in some areas. I'm in no rush to upgrade to it but if my next PC comes with it pre-installed I'll use it. -- (Battle hardened industrialist) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
BoBoZoBo Foundation R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.08 20:30:00 - [116] Edited by: BoBoZoBo on 08/10/2007 20:31:28 Man.. this again Like running into a Mac/PC war. Personally for me Vista is cool if you are running Eve and some basic software. However, like to OP, I work a lot with graphics and video and Vista simply could not perform in that area I had to go back to XP as well. Even not recognizing all 6 GB it runs better. I don't know what that tells others, but for me it is NOT a step forward. So in the end, I guess it depends on what you are doing, Vista is definitely not a workhorse.. that much IS true. ========================= Minister of Propaganda - Operator 9
Shalia Ripper Caldari High4Life SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.08 20:43:00 - [117] The real problem with Windows Vista? it costs more than it should. FAR more. It is just an OS. No way an OS should cost over $50.
Spaceman Jack	Posted - 2007.10.08 23:18:00 - [118] I was just being a bee-otch. People at work were irritating me.. so I had to pass it along. Srry pps

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