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Wot I Think
State War Academy Caldari State
217
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Posted - 2012.01.22 15:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why PLEX?
PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.
Risk v Reward is now just reward.
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends. |
Valei Khurelem
191
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Posted - 2012.01.22 15:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
They don't really seem like the type to have true friends so I don't really see the point of this argument, to be serious though, you already pointed at the real issue in your rant anyway, the roaming gangs and the pointlessness of being in 0.0 space are the reasons why 0.0 is so useless and largely empty.
Why stay in a place you can get ganked constantly when you earn far less than people in high sec who don't get ganked? It doesn't make any sense if CCP is really going for risk vs reward in EVE.
"don't get us wrong, we don't want to screw new players, on the contrary. The core problem here is that tech 1 frigates and cruisers should be appealing enough to be viable platforms in both PvE and PvP." -á - CCP Ytterbium |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
171
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 15:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:Why PLEX?
PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.
Risk v Reward is now just reward.
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.
Good post. |
Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
256
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 15:18:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yay! Another Incursion whine thread.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
171
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 15:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Doc Fury wrote:Yay! Another Incursion whine thread.
Yeah but at least his was well thought out and not a "OMG NERF INCURSIONS QUIT EVE BBQ HELICOPTER!" |
Geoscape
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
10
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Posted - 2012.01.22 15:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
The consequences of incursion carebearing are getting more and more magical. |
SilentSkills
Event.Horizon Flatline.
86
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Posted - 2012.01.22 15:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote: Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
I love posters that change numbers to bolster their point. It used to be 60, then 80, then 100, now its 130mil/hr? Damn those bears are surely resourceful, and they do not compete for it among themselves, clearly.
Incursions are not a constant 130m isk/hr per pilot isk faucet. Don't pull numbers out of your ass without wiping the bullshit off it first. 130m/hr is not possible to do unless you are in a very specific fleet, with a specific setup, with no competition (which happens all the time), because its not just you and your fleet running, its you and another 100 people as well competing for them.
A more realistic number is 100 in a lucky l33t fleet, 60 ish in an average SP/ship fleet, and much less in a newbie fleet). Your number fails to account, people who leave, people who sleep, eat, **** and ****.
So sir, incursions are indeed a proliferating isk faucet, but not a constant one. |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
119
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 15:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:Why PLEX?
PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.
Risk v Reward is now just reward.
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.
You are a liar. Pure and simple. Your numbers are a complete fabrication. |
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
86
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 15:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Wot I Think wrote:Why PLEX?
PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.
Risk v Reward is now just reward.
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends. You are a liar. Pure and simple. Your numbers are a complete fabrication.
His numbers are sort of on point, 100mil an hour doesn't need a "shiney" fleet just one that is built correctly.
That would be 2.3bil per pilot on a 23 hour cycle.
Since you don't start seeing systems contest till about 100 in system that is a trillion an hour per vanguard system with 100 pilots running, maybe a little less, but no less that 750 bil.
Thus you are talking in the range of 19-23 trillion per day per hi-sec vanguard system.
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Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 15:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Doesn't matter anyway as the OP fails to grasp that incurions don't account for the main contribution of isk faucets in the game. You only have to consider all the mission runners in the game to see where one big generator is.
The recent plex spike "coincided" (see this word its important, look it up in a dictionary if you need to) after the promotion of the power of two, or increased number of accounts and also the advent of Crucible for which everyone seems to have returned to play or has encouraged exisitng and newer players to Plex further.
And since it was a spike, and not the gradual increase due to what may have been seen for the length of time for which incursions have operated then only helps to show the continually poor associations people make. Usually for their own selfish interests, and has been classically announced and substantiated here that its the null players who want to control what people do. |
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B DeLeon
DeLeon Industries
23
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Posted - 2012.01.22 15:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
That's where the problem is. In 0.0 with a t1 bs you can get ~30-40mill/hour by ratting running anomalies. With a pimp ship you can get 40-100 mill/hour. Similar reward but so much higher risk. There are the sov bills, upgrade costs, fuel costs (to resupply assets) and you have to deal with roaming gangs/afk cloakers etc and you must participate in huge fights all the time to defend the territory wich is fun and the main reason why people lives in null but they spend the money what they earn one way or another. In the meantime norisk highsec incursion runners grinding out insane amount of money srewing up the plex prices forcing all the EvE players who aren't participating in incursion grindfleets to grind more for their gametime.
Incursion is a great feature for high sec players for social interaction. It's not the incursion what is broken but the reward system. |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
79
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
B DeLeon wrote:SilentSkills wrote:Wot I Think wrote: Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops. I love posters that change numbers to bolster their point. It used to be 60, then 80, then 100, now its 130mil/hr? Damn those bears are surely resourceful, and they do not compete for it among themselves, clearly. Incursions are not a constant 130m isk/hr per pilot isk faucet. Don't pull numbers out of your ass without wiping the bullshit off it first. 130m/hr is not possible to do unless you are in a very specific fleet, with a specific setup, with no competition (which happens all the time), because its not just you and your fleet running, its you and another 100 people as well competing for them. A more realistic number is 100 in a lucky l33t fleet, 60 ish in an average SP/ship fleet, and much less in a newbie fleet). Your number fails to account, people who leave, people who sleep, eat, **** and ****. So sir, incursions are indeed a proliferating isk faucet, but not a constant one. That's where the problem is. In 0.0 with a t1 bs you can get ~30-40mill/hour by ratting or running anomalies. With a pimp ship you can get 40-100 mill/hour. Similar reward but so much higher risk. There are the sov bills, upgrade costs, fuel costs (to resupply assets) and you have to deal with roaming gangs/afk cloakers etc and you must participate in huge fights all the time to defend the territory wich is fun and the main reason why people lives in null but they spend the money what they earn one way or another. In the meantime norisk highsec incursion runners are grinding out insane amount of money srcewing up the plex prices forcing all the EvE players who aren't participating in incursion grindfleets to grind more for their gametime. Incursion is a great feature for high sec players for social interaction and noone denies that. It's not the incursion what is broken but the reward system.
Which presumably is why the rewards for null sec incursions are higher aslong as all the other earning possibilities, so whats your point again? |
B DeLeon
DeLeon Industries
23
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Null and lowsec incursions are a nice quick ISK injection for the neighbourhood but that's all. You can't run with huge pimp fleets from incursion to incursion in null and low because soon or later you will be faceraped by the nearby entities. |
Selinate
599
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Quote:
His numbers are sort of on point, 100mil an hour doesn't need a "shiney" fleet just one that is built correctly.
That would be 2.3bil per pilot on a 23 hour cycle.
Since you don't start seeing systems contest till about 100 in system that is a trillion an hour per vanguard system with 100 pilots running, maybe a little less, but no less that 750 bil.
Thus you are talking in the range of 19-23 trillion per day per hi-sec vanguard system.
50 in local, sites can start being contested.
100 mil an hour requires a *fairly* shiny fleet to run the sites.
Also, anyone playing 23 hours a day is a bot. |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
B DeLeon wrote:Null and lowsec incursions are a nice quick ISK injection for the neighbourhood but that's all. You can't run with huge pimp fleets from incursion to incursion in null and low because soon or later you will be faceraped by the nearby entities.
But if CCP changes the null/low incursions reward in parallel with the highsec incursions then I don't have problem with it.
Well other null bears report that can operate quite well in their own protected SoV space. When you add all the other lucrative earning possibilities in null into the mix it wouldn't suprise me if you are not more of a plexer than others.
And as far as I understood the differences between areas have been already balanced to afford your request.
Despite that Incursions don't account for the bulk of the faucets, consider the bounties in missions and elsewhere aswell as all other isk generating features. Then you might find the main culprits for plex purchasing.
Plex are sold in the 100k + units per month, and that is quoting figures from last quarter of QEN 2010 so will have likley incresed significantly if the spikes due to crucible and power of 2 are anything to go by. I seriosuly doubt there is that many incursion runners in high sec to accomodate for all of those purchases. |
Skydell
Space Mermaids
113
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
I said this a year ago. Back when everyone was spazzing about Monocles, I watch our Null home system go from having 80-90 all the time to having 2
Anom Nerf killed this game. It turned Null sec in to moon goo sec. No moon goo? Nobody wants it. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4492
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Selinate wrote:50 in local, sites can start being contested.
100 mil an hour requires a *fairly* shiny fleet to run the sites.
Also, anyone playing 23 hours a day is a bot. It's not about the single player GÇö it's about how the totality of incursion runners add ISK to the economy. When one player leaves, another takes his spot and keeps up the ISK injection, and on it goes 23.5/7. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1627
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Well other null bears report that can operate quite well in their own protected SoV space. When you add all the other lucrative earning possibilities in null into the mix it wouldn't suprise me if you are not more of a plexer than others.
Sov space incursions are usually a "run sites until the mothership spawns and kill it ASAP" affair. Not being able to light cynos in an entire constellation screws up logistics. |
Akrasjel Lanate
Naquatech Conglomerate
518
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nerf high sec Incursions rewards
PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1627
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:47:00 -
[20] - Quote
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Nerf high sec Incursions rewards
PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE.
incursions and tech are basically competing entities
leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation |
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Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
80
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Andski wrote:Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Nerf high sec Incursions rewards
PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE. incursions and tech are basically competing entities leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation
Then we better start worrying about the main isk faucets then, bounties overall rather than incursions which arent the main contributor by a long shot. And suprise suprise, best bounties are in null sec. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1627
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Nerf high sec Incursions rewards
PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE. incursions and tech are basically competing entities leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation Then we better start worrying about the main isk faucets then, bounties overall rather than incursions which arent the main contributor by a long shot. And suprise suprise, best bounties are in null sec.
source? |
Jenny Cameron
Ordo Eventus Inception Alliance
33
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 16:59:00 -
[23] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops. I thought EVE was about having fun, not making ISK? |
Skydell
Space Mermaids
113
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 17:01:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jenny Cameron wrote:Wot I Think wrote:Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops. I thought EVE was about having fun, not making ISK?
Feel free to have fun being broke in New Eden. I get what you are saying but they go hand in hand. ISK grind down time is the only thing they have to claim "hard".
|
Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
132
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 17:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:Why PLEX?
PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.
Risk v Reward is now just reward.
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.
lol, you people are amazing with your bs theories.
Did it ever occure to you that some people like PvP and some people like PvE?
Its a GAME, people do what the like, that is all. |
Killstealing
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
361
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 17:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
op played anarchy online |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
77
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 19:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Andski wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Nerf high sec Incursions rewards
PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE. incursions and tech are basically competing entities leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation Then we better start worrying about the main isk faucets then, bounties overall rather than incursions which arent the main contributor by a long shot. And suprise suprise, best bounties are in null sec. source?
What is the problem with Nullsec Alliance members that they deny everything, even if it is commonly known to be true. Bounties scale with security level, so don't be a jackass. |
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1308
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 19:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
blaming "feature" not the one who made an decision to do what they did.
It will get you far. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues EVE Rogues Alliance
77
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 20:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:Wot I Think wrote:Why PLEX?
PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.
Risk v Reward is now just reward.
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends. You are a liar. Pure and simple. Your numbers are a complete fabrication. His numbers are sort of on point, 100mil an hour doesn't need a "shiney" fleet just one that is built correctly. That would be 2.3bil per pilot on a 23 hour cycle. Since you don't start seeing systems contest till about 100 in system that is a trillion an hour per vanguard system with 100 pilots running, maybe a little less, but no less that 750 bil. Thus you are talking in the range of 19-23 trillion per day per hi-sec vanguard system.
This is the one I have to wonder about. Are those Typo's? Obviously not, as the authors quite consistent; but then I have to wonder if he's completely off his rocker? Maybe misunderstood the question, or has no idea what he's talking about?
I've never run Incursions, but I have a very hard time believing this. I believe it's possible that 8 out of 100 pilots make 60-70 million ISK an hour each, and maybe as many as 3 times that running different sites in the same system. So that would actually be 24 pilots times ~70 million ISK, and equal about 1.68 billion ISK an hour for each Vanguard system.
Certainly not 100 pilots times 130 million ISK an hour, for 13 brillion ISK. Nowhere near a trillion ISK an hour; someone needs to stop drinking and posting.
Sure as heck a bunch of fleets, with 100 pilots total for all fleets, don't get a payout each. Even if you had 3 Vanguard sites in one system, and one fleet of 33 pilots per site farming; you'd find this wouldn't amount to much, because each pilot would be earning something like ~16 million each per hour.
Reward scales with number of pilots as far as I know; just like they do in Wormholes with Sleepers. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
235
|
Posted - 2012.01.22 20:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
not really drama so much as some guys hiding behind npc forum alts with deeply laden nullsec-inferiority complex issues |
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