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Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
1312
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Posted - 2012.01.23 08:02:00 -
[61] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Crystal Liche wrote:
Its a GAME, people do what the like, that is all.
Since it's a GAME and people do what they like, they won't have an issue if incursions netted 40M per hour right?
Unless they like ISK in the wallet for no obvious purpose And dont want to make it via market. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
158
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 08:31:00 -
[62] - Quote
Deviana Sevidon wrote:One pro tip to the nullbears: Don't compare incursion income to the 23/7 cylce you let your bots run. No incursion pilot is online for that much time and because people don't bot they need a break from time to time, you will also have to factor sleep and a wide number of RL activities into this.
Read below, even if that will make you feel clueless.
Jorn Isu wrote: I'm new here, so forgive me if I completely misunderstand the situation, but:
This is similar to how cops defend accusations of abuses of power with "I don't do it, none of my friends do it, therefore it doesn't exist!" By willingly coexisting with bots (My understanding is that most major null alliances have "do not report" rules, at least with regards to their own bots, and possibly "do not report" NAPs), you are complicit in the activity.
Yes you misunderstand the situation.
The PvPers (including in null sec) have completely another mentality compared to the botters. PvPers are active, sometimes reckless guys who like to blow up stuff and then grind a couple anomalies / L4 to make up for the losses, their corps (mine had) ship loss reimbursement programs. They don't like nor need to bot.
Botters are business oriented individuals with strong aversion to anything that makes their business disrupted. They just farm. They are even more "bears" than hi sec bears, their ships have cloaks / insta warps and so on. Unlike PvPers they don't want to boast, they don't want to be under the spotlight, they don't want to blow any ISK, they want to potentially make huge ISK with no loss.
PvPers are those who sweat their ass to earn sov. They boast on the forums and post killboards. Botters are those obscure and secluded renters who you never hear about.
Only the leadership of sov holding alliances (and not the "PvPers", they are really but the grunts) *might* know that botters rented their systems. Most often the leadership don't even want to know, they just take the ISK without investigating.
Finally:
enter incursions, aka a "just farm" activity, with no rent fee to pay no AFK cloakers, no gate campers, no roamers. Vastly higher payoff than bot ratting in 0.0. The PARADISE for RMTers. Just have the Chinese slave multibox incursions (as it seems they do in some of their jails) insted of 0.0 anomalies.
Can you exclude that? Do you REALLY believe that RMTers won't switch to the obvious -risk +reward chicken with golden eggs?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
158
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Posted - 2012.01.23 08:32:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jaroslav Unwanted wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Crystal Liche wrote:
Its a GAME, people do what the like, that is all.
Since it's a GAME and people do what they like, they won't have an issue if incursions netted 40M per hour right? Unless they like ISK in the wallet for no obvious purpose And dont want to make it via market.
Just debunking "THEY DO IT FOR THE GAME" fallacity.
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
You're comparing apples and oranges; hisec group PvE vs. nullsec solo PvE. The risk involved in nullsec solo PvE is offset by the convenience in that you can go anytime you want. Whereas, if you've tried hisec Incursions, you could be stuck in the channel spamming for a fleet for a small portion of forever. There's good money, sure, but only after you finally get a fleet.
And you are talking out of your ass. The risk involved in solo PvE nullsec is offset by:
- being in a gimped cloaky / ECCM etc. ship, having to GTFO every time a neutral enters a system.
- having a number of corpies camp the gate(s) and WH entrances to the system. Oh wait, that's not really "solo", isn't it?
Also, if you are channel spamming for an incursion fleet you are one of those randoms who don't join "premades" and exactly because you don't want to pour in the socializing effort you seem to imply.
Borascus wrote:Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field - ~20 billion isk? Only available in Guristas Space? Guristas Space is Null-sec?
Nope. Estamel inv field equals to ZERO Isk created. It won't make PLEX rise or anything because it does not create any money out of nowhere.
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Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1637
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Posted - 2012.01.23 09:02:00 -
[64] - Quote
Mars Theran wrote:Andski wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Andski wrote:Akrasjel Lanate wrote:Nerf high sec Incursions rewards
PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE. incursions and tech are basically competing entities leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation Then we better start worrying about the main isk faucets then, bounties overall rather than incursions which arent the main contributor by a long shot. And suprise suprise, best bounties are in null sec. source? What is the problem with Nullsec Alliance members that they deny everything, even if it is commonly known to be true. Bounties scale with security level, so don't be a jackass.
the anomaly nerf screwed up 0.0 line member income and caused a lot of inward migration to highsec to run incursions
100m/hour anoms aren't a thing anymore unless you dualbox a carrier and tengu |
Tian Nu
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2012.01.23 09:04:00 -
[65] - Quote
i wanted to post something but while i was typing i forgot what it was... damn. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1637
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Posted - 2012.01.23 09:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:Renan Ruivo wrote:Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
You're comparing apples and oranges; hisec group PvE vs. nullsec solo PvE. The risk involved in nullsec solo PvE is offset by the convenience in that you can go anytime you want. Whereas, if you've tried hisec Incursions, you could be stuck in the channel spamming for a fleet for a small portion of forever. There's good money, sure, but only after you finally get a fleet.
lol wut I thought the same thing, but i thought it to be rude to say it... Solo null-sec PVE, lol. Wow, thought you guys would be smarter than this. Anomalies = solo Ratting = solo Incursions = fleet solo content =/= group content This is an mmo. The rewards for solo play should never be greater than group play.
that is nonsense
you're comparing solo PvE in nullsec, a risky activity, to group PvE in highsec, a low-risk activity |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1637
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 09:11:00 -
[67] - Quote
Borascus wrote:Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field - ~20 billion isk? Only available in Guristas Space? Guristas Space is Null-sec?
you realize that officer spawns are hilariously hard to get (they're not exactly something you look for), and even harder to kill, right? if you find one, you need some hilarious DPS to break their regen, and by the time you kill it (usually with two carriers or an SC) you're not exactly guaranteed to get a 20bn officer mod. |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
221
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Posted - 2012.01.23 09:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
Read OP left thread dissapointed .
OP clearly mispelled 'Incursions' in his title ( ie it doesn't start with P or end in X )
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4509
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 12:04:00 -
[69] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote: Do you have any figures to demonstrate that of all the faucets in the game incurions are the main contributor? Especially when you could consider that bounties globally from the game could be considerably more than incurions.
Are you familiar with the conditional statement, often signified by the word "if"?
Anyway, yes. As show in the last QEN, those numbers had not changed much since then (the QEN gave them per months, rather than as a daily slice, but the numbers are roughly the same, or maybe ~5 percent higher, and then the CSM minutes seem to suggest that those numbers have decreased due to the move away from L4s and the sanc nerf). That would put bounties at no more than 950B ISK/day at the moment, which is far below the supposed 1.3T ISK/day from incursions.
Quote:And have you considered that ISK movement in the market can equally change prices without the aspect of ISK injection into the whole economy. Yes, but it's the ISK injection that has to be balanced against the sinks and the production, not the trading. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2012.01.23 12:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote: Do you have any figures to demonstrate that of all the faucets in the game incurions are the main contributor? Especially when you could consider that bounties globally from the game could be considerably more than incurions.
Are you familiar with the conditional statement, often signified by the word "if"? Anyway, yes. As show in the last QEN, those numbers had not changed much since then (the QEN gave them per months, rather than as a daily slice, but the numbers are roughly the same, or maybe ~5 percent higher, and then the CSM minutes seem to suggest that those numbers have decreased due to the move away from L4s and the sanc nerf). That would put bounties at no more than 950B ISK/day at the moment, which is far below the supposed 1.3T ISK/day from incursions.
Please explain where you got the "supposed 1.3T ISk/day from incursions? And the supporting evidence that coroborates this. As obviously from your own figures something must be wrong then as the ISK from incursions as I understand it are bounties?
Unless of course there isn't an accurate an up to date piece of evidence to provide any support to your claims. Heaven forbid.
Quote:Quote:And have you considered that ISK movement in the market can equally change prices without the aspect of ISK injection into the whole economy. Yes, but it's the ISK injection that has to be balanced against the sinks and the production, not the trading.
Yet your argument was about plex price increases. All I'm saying is you have no evidence to suggest that plex price increases are due to inflation and that it is linked soley to incursion activities, as opposed to ISK movements within the economy. Again unsupported speculation.
Yet the recent plex spike co-incided with the crucible expansion and after the power of two promotion. Which seams more of a evidential reason for people buying more plex than one due to incursions where you'd expect to see a gradual increase within the term incurions have been valid for?
Also plex is sold in units of 100k+ / month according to the QEN. So your telling me that its accounted for by all the incursion runners. If there are 5000 of them thats 20 each per month.
"All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." |
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4509
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Posted - 2012.01.23 12:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:Please explain where you got the "supposed 1.3T ISk/day from incursions? Look at the quote you used. Also, look up the meaning of "if".
Quote:Yet your argument was about plex price increases. No. The argument was about ISK injection compared to the trading volume of a high-value commodity. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Grumpy Owly
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
87
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Posted - 2012.01.23 13:15:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Grumpy Owly wrote:Please explain where you got the "supposed 1.3T ISk/day from incursions? Look at the quote you used. Also, look up the meaning of "if". Quote:Yet your argument was about plex price increases. No. The argument was about ISK injection compared to the trading volume of a high-value commodity.
If, but, maybe, semantics, re-define, loose definitions. Should be an e-lawyer.
Yet there isnt any evidence to prove that the ISK isnt simply moving around rather than as a result of faucets. You seem incapable of grasping this simple economic fact. And pressure your sole beleif its all due to faucets. As if you re-read your own thread you were quoting that all the trading value could be as a result of faucets alone.
However with all the speculation you havent really provided us with any real solid argument, So its pointless trying to worry about something that hasnt been proven to exist.
Pointless trying to debate it with you if you can grasp fundamental principles however.
"All griefers are lazy cowards with the current climate of broken player policing systems." |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
4512
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 13:37:00 -
[73] - Quote
Grumpy Owly wrote:If, but, maybe, semantics, re-define, loose definitions. Should be an e-lawyer. Maybe if you took your time to actually read what you respond to, these things wouldn't have to be pointed out to you.
Quote:Yet there isnt any evidence to prove that the ISK isnt simply moving around rather than as a result of faucets. Which ISK are you talking about?
I'm talking about the ISK injected by incursions, and there is no evidence needed: the ISK is injected by very definition of injecting ISK. You keep talking about things that have never even been mentioned. If you're going to comment on a post, comment on what's actually said in the post, not on something completely different.
Quote:As if you re-read your own thread you were quoting that all the trading value could be as a result of faucets alone. Oh ffs. Go read it again. This time, actually read it. No-one is saying that. Put down the shrooms and stop hallucinating. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Inir Ishtori
Perkone Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2012.01.23 13:39:00 -
[74] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost their alt accounts.
a small fix for more honesty and truth |
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
145
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 13:56:00 -
[75] - Quote
Andski wrote:you realize that officer spawns are hilariously hard to get (they're not exactly something you look for), and even harder to kill, right? if you find one, you need some hilarious DPS to break their regen, and by the time you kill it (usually with two carriers or an SC) you're not exactly guaranteed to get a 20bn officer mod.
Say what? What changed? I recall killing officer spawns solo in a battleship.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? |
Josephine Sokarad
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 14:26:00 -
[76] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote: they are mad because they have lost true friends.
MMM Yummy tears. |
Jafit McJafitson
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
181
|
Posted - 2012.01.23 14:29:00 -
[77] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote: they are mad because they have lost true friends.
http://soundcloud.com/miah-1-1/old-guard
o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7o7om8m8m8m8m8m8m8mm8m8m8 |
Xpaulusx
Hosti1e Traff1c Control
22
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Posted - 2012.01.23 16:05:00 -
[78] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:Why PLEX?
PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.
Risk v Reward is now just reward.
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends. Interesting perspective, but more like mad because they lost fodder for Blob Warfare. Friends you say? In some cases yes but mostly tempoary acquaintances of convenience. Like Diplomacy, saying nice doggy till you can find a big enough stick. |
OldMan Gana
The Flaming Sideburn's Art of War Alliance
17
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Posted - 2012.01.23 16:12:00 -
[79] - Quote
Move Incursions to NPC Null. " I spent most of my money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered." -George Best-á |
Martyr Theos
The NecroMonger Faith
45
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Posted - 2012.01.23 16:40:00 -
[80] - Quote
Jenny Cameron wrote:Wot I Think wrote:Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops. I thought EVE was about having fun, not making ISK?
No, EVE is about making money. Period.
Wake up and smell the coffee>>>
Who is this man? >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bj+¦rg+¦lfur_Thor_Bj+¦rg+¦lfsson
What is his relationship to this company and CCP? >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novator_Partners
What is the connection between Zero RMT Corps, RMT websites, and people connected to the above?
When you have figured this out, ask yourself why you are gambling in a crooked casino.
(Doubt this? How else is it that supercaps are getting supplied to RMT sites without the collusion of Zero Corps? You can't build those things in high sec and you need a ship building array to do it. Do you think these things can be used without Corps knowing it? Logic dictates that some of the Zero Corps are in on this. Logic dictates that CCP knows who is doing it. Logic dictates that the investors are spicing up their rate of return by engaging in RMT, in essence competing in the game itself.)
You guys are playing a rigged game. I'm not the first one to point this out. |
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Vallek Arkonnis
Viziam Amarr Empire
97
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Posted - 2012.01.23 18:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
You're comparing apples and oranges; hisec group PvE vs. nullsec solo PvE. The risk involved in nullsec solo PvE is offset by the convenience in that you can go anytime you want. Whereas, if you've tried hisec Incursions, you could be stuck in the channel spamming for a fleet for a small portion of forever. There's good money, sure, but only after you finally get a fleet.
And you are talking out of your ass. The risk involved in solo PvE nullsec is offset by: - being in a gimped cloaky / ECCM etc. ship, having to GTFO every time a neutral enters a system. - having a number of corpies camp the gate(s) and WH entrances to the system. Oh wait, that's not really "solo", isn't it?
You're right, but now you'd have a fleet and could go do nullsec Incursions over anomalies and ratting for even more isk. Neat how that works, huh?
My point still stands; you can do high paying anomalies and ratting solo. Any incursion requires a fleet. Any MMO will favor multiplayer activities over solo activities. From the multitude of Incursion whine threads, it seems that the risk in nullsec seems to change depending on the argument; it's either barren because everyone has left in which case there's little risk, or there are roamers everywhere which make it difficult to do any PvE content, thus negating the complaint that nullsec PvP is barren. Which is it? Nerfing PvE content to move PvEers to nullsec does not create more PvPers.
l33t PvPer: I want to stomp bears Isk Hoarding Carebear: I want to make isk
Carebear makes isk in hisec Incursions
PvPer: CCP should nerf hisec Incursions so carebears move to nullsec where I can stomp them.
PvPer stomps the carebear
Carebear: ow that hurts, I want to make isk.
Carebear moves back to hisec to run lvl 4 missions
PvPer: I want to stomp bears. CCP should nerf hisec missions so they move to nullsec where I can stomp them.
Sound familiar?
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
159
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Posted - 2012.01.23 18:34:00 -
[82] - Quote
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
You're right, but now you'd have a fleet and could go do nullsec Incursions over anomalies and ratting for even more isk. Neat how that works, huh?
My point still stands; you can do high paying anomalies and ratting solo. Any incursion requires a fleet. Any MMO will favor multiplayer activities over solo activities.
Flawed premise, it's not how it works.
Alliances don't reimburse ratting / PvE ships therefore you and your 0.0 buddies are on your own wallet.
You won't setup a 3-5B pimp ship for 0.0 (much less find a whole group willing to do the same) because rumors circulate very easily and so do roams thru WHs. You WILL do a couple of incursions and then get cynoed / blobbed / neuted whatever to death.
Heck even just moving a pimp hull and mods from hi sec over there is not a joke. Even just moving over there faction / whatever mods, consummables / drones has 100 times the cost of hi sec.
Therefore the 0.0 seccers settle for T2 + whatever they ratted, fitted T1 ships. Therefore their efficiency is vastly inferior than if they did it in hi sec with pimp ships. Therefore the "on paper" better 0.0 money per hour is not really there. Therefore they JC out / log alts and just do it in hi sec.
Moreover, the risk is always there therefore they really do the incursion in haste and kill the MOM (like it should happen).
In hi sec all you have to do is to go Jita and buy at the best price.
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
18
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Posted - 2012.01.23 20:08:00 -
[83] - Quote
Wot I Think wrote:Why PLEX?
PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.
Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.
In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.
Risk v Reward is now just reward.
NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.
NULL SEC tears? Quick let me grab my bucket.... slurp... OK ribbing mode off:
1)Honestly the ISK numbers you quote only a Incursion BOT could make... & Incursion bots are impossible for multiple reasons. 2) PLEX price was inflated for reasons other then Incursions & the numbers really prove it if you look at the supply/demand availability... PLEX price inflated most likely due to speculation/Incarna rage 3) Many your friends did move outta null due to the anon nerf i'm guessing? That was a screw up none of the Incursion runners like myself liked ( made incursions too crowded ) 4)Incursion fleets are fun I'd suggest you try it but with the current butt hurt drama I doubt you'll bew able to find a fleet easily since the BOSS sites are dieing so quikly again |
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CCP Phantom
C C P C C P Alliance
944
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Posted - 2012.01.23 20:13:00 -
[84] - Quote
Please use this thread for constructive feedback on Incursions, thank you.
Thread locked. CCP Phantom - German Community Coordinator |
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