Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.

Yay! Another Incursion whine thread.

Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.

You are a liar.
Pure and simple.
Your numbers are a complete fabrication.

That's where the problem is. In 0.0 with a t1 bs you can get ~30-40mill/hour by ratting or running anomalies. With a pimp ship you can get 40-100 mill/hour. Similar reward but so much higher risk. There are the sov bills, upgrade costs, fuel costs (to resupply assets) and you have to deal with roaming gangs/afk cloakers etc and you must participate in huge fights all the time to defend the territory wich is fun and the main reason why people lives in null but they spend the money what they earn one way or another. In the meantime norisk highsec incursion runners are grinding out insane amount of money srcewing up the plex prices forcing all the EvE players who aren't participating in incursion grindfleets to grind more for their gametime.

Incursion is a great feature for high sec players for social interaction and noone denies that. It's not the incursion what is broken but the reward system.

His numbers are sort of on point, 100mil an hour doesn't need a "shiney" fleet just one that is built correctly.

That would be 2.3bil per pilot on a 23 hour cycle.

Since you don't start seeing systems contest till about 100 in system that is a trillion an hour per vanguard system with 100 pilots running, maybe a little less, but no less that 750 bil.

Thus you are talking in the range of 19-23 trillion per day per hi-sec vanguard system.

Null and lowsec incursions are a nice quick ISK injection for the neighbourhood but that's all. You can't run with huge pimp fleets from incursion to incursion in null and low because soon or later you will be faceraped by the nearby entities.

But if CCP changes the null/low incursions reward in parallel with the highsec incursions then I don't have problem with it.

50 in local, sites can start being contested.

100 mil an hour requires a *fairly* shiny fleet to run the sites.

Also, anyone playing 23 hours a day is a bot.

Well other null bears report that can operate quite well in their own protected SoV space. When you add all the other lucrative earning possibilities in null into the mix it wouldn't suprise me if you are not more of a plexer than others.

Nerf high sec Incursions rewards


PS. Your 0.0 leaders have tech moons i'm sure they won't quit EVE.

incursions and tech are basically competing entities

leave incursions unchecked and tech will go up up up because of inflation

Then we better start worrying about the main isk faucets then, bounties overall rather than incursions which arent the main contributor by a long shot. And suprise suprise, best bounties are in null sec.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

I thought EVE was about having fun, not making ISK?

Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.

source?

His numbers are sort of on point, 100mil an hour doesn't need a "shiney" fleet just one that is built correctly.

That would be 2.3bil per pilot on a 23 hour cycle.

Since you don't start seeing systems contest till about 100 in system that is a trillion an hour per vanguard system with 100 pilots running, maybe a little less, but no less that 750 bil.

Thus you are talking in the range of 19-23 trillion per day per hi-sec vanguard system.

This is the one I have to wonder about. Are those Typo's? Obviously not, as the authors quite consistent; but then I have to wonder if he's completely off his rocker? Maybe misunderstood the question, or has no idea what he's talking about?

I've never run Incursions, but I have a very hard time believing this. I believe it's possible that 8 out of 100 pilots make 60-70 million ISK an hour each, and maybe as many as 3 times that running different sites in the same system. So that would actually be 24 pilots times ~70 million ISK, and equal about 1.68 billion ISK an hour for each Vanguard system.

Certainly not 100 pilots times 130 million ISK an hour, for 13 brillion ISK. Nowhere near a trillion ISK an hour; someone needs to stop drinking and posting.

Sure as heck a bunch of fleets, with 100 pilots total for all fleets, don't get a payout each. Even if you had 3 Vanguard sites in one system, and one fleet of 33 pilots per site farming; you'd find this wouldn't amount to much, because each pilot would be earning something like ~16 million each per hour.

Reward scales with number of pilots as far as I know; just like they do in Wormholes with Sleepers.

One pro tip to the nullbears: Don't compare incursion income to the 23/7 cylce you let your bots run. No incursion pilot is online for that much time and because people don't bot they need a break from time to time, you will also have to factor sleep and a wide number of RL activities into this.

SO wait you are telling me you have never tried it but i'm wrong.

It wasn't a typo douche bag, I said 100 mil per hour per pilot....I wasn't wrong and I wasn't bullshitting...that is an average fleet.

Good fleets pull 120 uncontested and shinies 150 mil PER HOUR.

One pro tip to the nullbears: Don't compare incursion income to the 23/7 cylce you let your bots run. No incursion pilot is online for that much time and because people don't bot they need a break from time to time, you will also have to factor sleep and a wide number of RL activities into this.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec ...

Sorry 100 billion per hour


So 23 billion a day per system, sometimes three incursions, so 6 systems at a time.....1.38 trillion per day with three hi-sec incursions running.

Which is why plex when from around 290-325 when I started playing to 425-500 now depending on where the spike is.

While a select number of 0.0 people are assholes and shamelessly run bots, please do not use them to besmirch the name of everyone in 0.0. The point OP was trying to make is that for leisurely pilots (the ones that you describe), in the same "few hours" of invested time, incursions are far more profitable than anything they could be doing in nullsec.

Select groups of few people, such as the ones with wallets full of moon goo isk or the ones with wallets full of botting/RMT isk do not belong in general comparisons like this.

So incursions killed null sec? lol. Guess what. The asshats that run null sec killed null sec. Did you think keeping all the tech moons and the ******** isk faucet they are to a couple "powerblocs" would work well for alliance morale?

I'm new here, so forgive me if I completely misunderstand the situation, but:

This is similar to how cops defend accusations of abuses of power with "I don't do it, none of my friends do it, therefore it doesn't exist!" By willingly coexisting with bots (My understanding is that most major null alliances have "do not report" rules, at least with regards to their own bots, and possibly "do not report" NAPs), you are complicit in the activity.

Also, forgive the dramatic comparison, I'm not trying to equate botting in a game with beating people up because they looked at you funny :)

Sorry 100 billion per hour


So 23 billion a day per system, sometimes three incursions, so 6 systems at a time.....1.38 trillion per day with three hi-sec incursions running.

Which is why plex when from around 290-325 when I started playing to 425-500 now depending on where the spike is.

Feel free to have fun being broke in New Eden.

That's where the problem is. In 0.0 with a t1 bs you can get ~30-40mill/hour by ratting or running anomalies. With a pimp ship you can get 40-100 mill/hour. Similar reward but so much higher risk. There are the sov bills, upgrade costs, fuel costs (to resupply assets) and you have to deal with roaming gangs/afk cloakers etc and you have to participate in huge fights all the time to defend the territory wich is fun and the main reason why people lives in null but they spend the money what they earn one way or another.

In the meantime norisk highsec incursion runners are grinding out insane amount of money srcewing up the plex prices forcing all the EvE players who aren't participating in incursion grindfleets to grind more for their gametime.

You're comparing apples and oranges; hisec group PvE vs. nullsec solo PvE. The risk involved in nullsec solo PvE is offset by the convenience in that you can go anytime you want. Whereas, if you've tried hisec Incursions, you could be stuck in the channel spamming for a fleet for a small portion of forever. There's good money, sure, but only after you finally get a fleet.

lol wut

I thought the same thing, but i thought it to be rude to say it...

Solo null-sec PVE, lol.

This is similar to how cops defend accusations of abuses of power with "I don't do it, none of my friends do it, therefore it doesn't exist!" By willingly coexisting with bots (My understanding is that most major null alliances have "do not report" rules, at least with regards to their own bots, and possibly "do not report" NAPs), you are complicit in the activity.

Also, forgive the dramatic comparison, I'm not trying to equate botting in a game with beating people up because they looked at you funny :)

Huh, GTC was selling for something like 750m/60 day two years ago. Current prices are around 880m/60day. That's 130m increase in two years which includes the introduction of Plex as a traded commodity.

I thought the same thing, but i thought it to be rude to say it...

Solo null-sec PVE, lol.

The real isk faucet driving Plex prices isn't incursions. It's null sec PI.

Oh and the current Plex market in Jita runs about 1.2 trillion a day. Just plexes. Just in Jita. 1.38 Trillion a day is a drop in the bucket to the EvE economy.

GǪexcept that PI is not an ISK faucet. Highsec PI is an ISK sink, though.

GǪexcept that those trades do not add any ISK (quite the opposite), but rather move it around. A single source adding as much ISK as that large trade item rather shows the opposite: that it is a significant injection of ISK into the economy. In addition, if that number is accurate, it far outpaces all other faucets, which would be even mor worrisome when we consider how few players are needed to generate it.

Its a GAME, people do what the like, that is all.

Since it's a GAME and people do what they like, they won't have an issue if incursions netted 40M per hour right?

One pro tip to the nullbears: Don't compare incursion income to the 23/7 cylce you let your bots run. No incursion pilot is online for that much time and because people don't bot they need a break from time to time, you will also have to factor sleep and a wide number of RL activities into this.

I'm new here, so forgive me if I completely misunderstand the situation, but:

This is similar to how cops defend accusations of abuses of power with "I don't do it, none of my friends do it, therefore it doesn't exist!" By willingly coexisting with bots (My understanding is that most major null alliances have "do not report" rules, at least with regards to their own bots, and possibly "do not report" NAPs), you are complicit in the activity.

Unless they like ISK in the wallet for no obvious purpose And dont want to make it via market.

You're comparing apples and oranges; hisec group PvE vs. nullsec solo PvE. The risk involved in nullsec solo PvE is offset by the convenience in that you can go anytime you want. Whereas, if you've tried hisec Incursions, you could be stuck in the channel spamming for a fleet for a small portion of forever. There's good money, sure, but only after you finally get a fleet.

Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field - ~20 billion isk? Only available in Guristas Space? Guristas Space is Null-sec?

What is the problem with Nullsec Alliance members that they deny everything, even if it is commonly known to be true. Bounties scale with security level, so don't be a jackass.

Wow, thought you guys would be smarter than this.

Anomalies = solo
Ratting = solo
Incursions = fleet

solo content =/= group content

This is an mmo. The rewards for solo play should never be greater than group play.

Estamel's Modified Invulnerability Field - ~20 billion isk? Only available in Guristas Space? Guristas Space is Null-sec?

Do you have any figures to demonstrate that of all the faucets in the game incurions are the main contributor? Especially when you could consider that bounties globally from the game could be considerably more than incurions.

And have you considered that ISK movement in the market can equally change prices without the aspect of ISK injection into the whole economy.

Are you familiar with the conditional statement, often signified by the word "if"?

Anyway, yes. As show in the last QEN, those numbers had not changed much since then (the QEN gave them per months, rather than as a daily slice, but the numbers are roughly the same, or maybe ~5 percent higher, and then the CSM minutes seem to suggest that those numbers have decreased due to the move away from L4s and the sanc nerf). That would put bounties at no more than 950B ISK/day at the moment, which is far below the supposed 1.3T ISK/day from incursions.

Yes, but it's the ISK injection that has to be balanced against the sinks and the production, not the trading.

Please explain where you got the "supposed 1.3T ISk/day from incursions?

Yet your argument was about plex price increases.

Look at the quote you used. Also, look up the meaning of "if".
No. The argument was about ISK injection compared to the trading volume of a high-value commodity.

If, but, maybe, semantics, re-define, loose definitions. Should be an e-lawyer.

Yet there isnt any evidence to prove that the ISK isnt simply moving around rather than as a result of faucets.

As if you re-read your own thread you were quoting that all the trading value could be as a result of faucets alone.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost their alt accounts.

you realize that officer spawns are hilariously hard to get (they're not exactly something you look for), and even harder to kill, right? if you find one, you need some hilarious DPS to break their regen, and by the time you kill it (usually with two carriers or an SC) you're not exactly guaranteed to get a 20bn officer mod.

they are mad because they have lost true friends.

they are mad because they have lost true friends.

Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.

I thought EVE was about having fun, not making ISK?

And you are talking out of your ass.
The risk involved in solo PvE nullsec is offset by:

- being in a gimped cloaky / ECCM etc. ship, having to GTFO every time a neutral enters a system.

- having a number of corpies camp the gate(s) and WH entrances to the system. Oh wait, that's not really "solo", isn't it?

You're right, but now you'd have a fleet and could go do nullsec Incursions over anomalies and ratting for even more isk. Neat how that works, huh?

My point still stands; you can do high paying anomalies and ratting solo. Any incursion requires a fleet. Any MMO will favor multiplayer activities over solo activities.

Why PLEX?

PLEX is one of those unique commodities that allows froobs to play EVE. Back before the world economy went down in flames, most people subscribed, and applied PLEX to increase wealth. A select amount of no life froobs could exploit local resources in a work to live arrangement. All was good.

Enter Incursions, 2b ISK per pilot per 24 hours if allowed to run unmolested and in highsec that is always allowed. The nullsec froob either quits eve or becomes a subber. Mostly they just quit. Post Incursion Null is a vacuum, if you can avoid the roaming hostiles you can earn 50 to 60m an hour ratting if you get a faction mod or two. But only an idiot would remain. Highsec incursions draw 130m+ an hour with no roaming gangs or dependance on drops.

In simple terms incursions killed nullsec, and forced hundreds of nullsec players to quit EVE. Incursions changed the f
population and gameplay of EVE. EVE was a game about the conquest of empires. EVE is now about instanced raids, and who can box the most pilots.

Risk v Reward is now just reward.

NullSec isn't mad about wallet balances, they are mad because they have lost true friends.