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Kaplan
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:19:00 -
[1]
Just a quick question, if you fire cruise missiles and warp out before they hit their target will they still do damage?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:26:00 -
[2]
No.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Pojo
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:38:00 -
[3]
They should not but they still do for some reason, I seen it myself recently.
"Caldari capacity for good is only exceeded by our capacity for evil"
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Moah
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:41:00 -
[4]
they dont...
Fancy. |
Enriques
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:46:00 -
[5]
One more quick question, in fleet combat do cruise missiles still take out allied missiles?
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:51:00 -
[6]
If they hit each other or s-plash damage, yeah.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.19 10:53:00 -
[7]
 Quote:
One more quick question, in fleet combat do cruise missiles still take out allied missiles?
Let's say you are in a fight, and there are two Ravens focus firing cruise missiles on a Megathron.
Each time a missile strikes the Megathron, it releases a fairly modest blast radius of 250 meters.
As missiles strike the Megathron the chances are pretty good, that blast radius will destroy incoming 'friendly' missiles targetted at the Megathron, making focus firing (which is essential for fleet battles) rather difficult for missile oriented ships.
Complications from other issues with blast radius aside, I find the fact your own missiles destroy your allies missiles (and sometimes your own) to be rather lame. Hopefully they'll remove the splash damage next patch.
Torpedoes are especially 'good' at taking out incoming friendly missiles, so don't even try using them in fleet engagements with their huge blast radius.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
TWD
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Posted - 2004.02.19 11:25:00 -
[8]
but, the splash damage of the missiles that get destroyed by splash damage, still do splash damage to the ship :) |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.19 11:29:00 -
[9]
Quote:
but, the splash damage of the missiles that get destroyed by splash damage, still do splash damage to the ship :)
i'm pretty sure a destroyed missile does not release splash damage that would harm the target.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.02.19 11:58:00 -
[10]
Quote:
but, the splash damage of the missiles that get destroyed by splash damage, still do splash damage to the ship :)
Nope. Doesn't even work for torps. Even if you spamm launch them all at once.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Toastmaster
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Posted - 2004.02.19 13:43:00 -
[11]
Well i have an untested teori that if the target is stopped and someone shoot missiles and warp away they will hit... Because when i was at a gate there was a kestrel that warped in and shot 4 cruise at me and they all hit me even though he had warped...
But when i have done this to object they are always moving and i always miss...
Or maybe that kestrel was lucky to hit me
"viper zulu > toast has killed our whole corporation ships at least once"
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Moah
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Posted - 2004.02.19 14:08:00 -
[12]
every1 who hunt industrials with a kestrel has try this method once... dont work...
Fancy. |
TWD
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Posted - 2004.02.19 15:43:00 -
[13]
hmm about the splash damage, slightly offtopic:
if a cruise missile explodes because of splash damage of another cruise missile, it sounds logical to me that missiles splash damage range is still within range of the ship. its ofcourse different when a torp explodes, then the cruise missile splash might be outside the range.
I often see a big b00m of missiles/torps near a ship and still see alot of HP disappear from the ship.
I might be wrong, if so, please explain it to me why :) |
Hematic
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Posted - 2004.02.19 16:06:00 -
[14]
Last time our corp ever used torps was about 5 months ago and the pilot mistakenly turned all launchers on at the same time. Needless to say he almost ended the battle before it ever began because he nearly blew himself up when they collided coming out of his ship.
I kind of like the fact that missles unlike turrets act as an actual object in space (realism factor). However the problem is that CCP didn't program their flight dynamics very well. So until they can get a handle on it they probably ought to just remove their ability to detonate near or on top of friendly units.
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.02.19 17:49:00 -
[15]
TWD,
it is a fact that when missiles are destroyed by each other they do no damage.
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Tar om
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Posted - 2004.02.19 19:00:00 -
[16]
Surely Torps (and all missiles) should just have a minimum arming time, something like 1 or 2 seconds, so that they can't detonate too close to the launching vessel. I'm sure that this must have been suggested before.....
Anyway I reckon that splash damage should affect all objects in range. Explosions don't understand the difference between friend and foe. Making friendly missiles immune would be a bit silly IMO
Tar-Om
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Tar om
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Posted - 2004.02.19 19:02:00 -
[17]
Surely Torps (and all missiles) should just have a minimum arming time, something like 1 or 2 seconds, so that they can't detonate too close to the launching vessel. I'm sure that this must have been suggested before.....
Anyway I reckon that splash damage should affect all objects in range. Explosions don't understand the difference between friend and foe. Making friendly missiles immune would be a bit silly IMO
Tar-Om
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
slothe
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Posted - 2004.02.19 20:22:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Just a quick question, if you fire cruise missiles and warp out before they hit their target will they still do damage?
actually yes they do
they didnt, but seem to now, we have tested this
Say hello on our forum @www.aserea.com
or join our public channel ingame "MLM Public"
http://www.khainestar.com/eve |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.19 21:01:00 -
[19]
Quote:
TWD,
it is a fact that when missiles are destroyed by each other they do no damage.
Yeah I "tested" this out 2 days ago on Tranquility.
I was launching cruise missiles at an Apoc and found it strange that only every other missile made damage, I did a "Look at" and watched as my cruise missile exploded, taking the trailing one with it. So right there I was doing 50% less damage with missiles than I was hoping for.
You have to really stagger the launchers, that's easy for a single ship but for more than one it's probably a nightmare.
¼©¼
a history |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 07:52:00 -
[20]
Quote:
Quote:
TWD,
it is a fact that when missiles are destroyed by each other they do no damage.
Yeah I "tested" this out 2 days ago on Tranquility.
I was launching cruise missiles at an Apoc and found it strange that only every other missile made damage, I did a "Look at" and watched as my cruise missile exploded, taking the trailing one with it. So right there I was doing 50% less damage with missiles than I was hoping for.
You have to really stagger the launchers, that's easy for a single ship but for more than one it's probably a nightmare.
Pretty much, this is why the blast radius on cruise missiles is a complete joke.
The easy (read: lazy) answer I've gotten from an unnamed BH (bug hunter) person is that he likes it this way because it's "strategic" or some such nonsense, hopefully this particular BH was just a clueless because that is a dumb comment.
First of all, you can't stagger them perfectly they go out of synch eventually.
Not all launchers have the same ROF.
Let's say I'm using 2 Seige Launcher Is and 2 'Arbalest' Seige Launchers. The stock seige launchers fire at 11.25sec, the Arbalests fire at 9sec, 2.25 second difference.. not matter how much I stagger, they will start to fire at different times, and start blowing each other up.
Sure I could manually fire them, but honestly, why should I have to manually fire my weapons? I have medium slots to babysit as well, and frequent reloading to do this is just unacceptable. What if you had to manually fire your turrets, because if you fired them all at once, you decreased your damage, isn't that asinine to the extreme?
So I'm basically forced to use launchers with the same ROF or I start blowing my own missiles up. Isn't this kind of stupid? Should there be a penalty for mixing meta launchers with standard launchers? Does such a penalty exist for turrets?
Of course not.
I hear caldari ship bonuses / missiles are getting revamped for the next patch, I can only hope they remove the blast radius from standard missiles as well. I do believe the overwhelming majority of players (at least the ones with a clue and use missiles) want the splash damage removed to increase missile functionality, there's no reason your own weapons should blow each other up and force you to get killed by CONCORD.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Dukath
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Posted - 2004.02.20 08:31:00 -
[21]
If you spread out a bit even fleet combat can have its missiles. Firing from a different angle means that the missiles will hit the ship far enough away from each other that they don't destroy each other. (distance is calculated from the edge of an object, not the center as it used to be) So a ship that is 500 meter long and one missile hits in fron and the other missile hits from behind will have plenty of distance between them. Just need to check the actual size of a ship and determine how much you need to spread out.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 08:37:00 -
[22]
Quote:
If you spread out a bit even fleet combat can have its missiles. Firing from a different angle means that the missiles will hit the ship far enough away from each other that they don't destroy each other. (distance is calculated from the edge of an object, not the center as it used to be) So a ship that is 500 meter long and one missile hits in fron and the other missile hits from behind will have plenty of distance between them. Just need to check the actual size of a ship and determine how much you need to spread out.
ya because battleships are so fast that you can easily get into perfect positiion because combat in eve is completely lag free as well!
plz, speak from actual experience next time, not out of your back end.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Estarriol
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Posted - 2004.02.20 08:43:00 -
[23]
Quote:
plz, speak from actual experience next time, not out of your back end.
I think Dukath[EVOL] has had his fair share of battle experiences, but thanks anyway, Mr. Jim "Docked" Raynor.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 08:45:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 20/02/2004 08:46:54
Quote:
Quote:
plz, speak from actual experience next time, not out of your back end.
I think Dukath[EVOL] has had his fair share of battle experiences, but thanks anyway, Mr. Jim "Docked" Raynor.
docked eh?
what's evol know aside from login traps and bookmark warping in at 100km? not much that's what.
stfu lamer.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Revolution
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Posted - 2004.02.20 08:49:00 -
[25]
intelligent rebuttal there jim..
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 08:50:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 20/02/2004 08:52:19
Quote:
intelligent rebuttal there jim..
about as intelligent as the intial comment, no?
when have i ever docked from EVOL? aside from the early days in the curse/stain war when you guys sat in HLW-HP at 7am with 30 people camping stations trash talking me? plz
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.02.20 09:05:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Cao Cao on 20/02/2004 09:06:42
lol i love it how evolution trolls suddenly crawl out of the woodwork and hijack a completely constructive and legit thread.
yes splash dmg is the problem on standard missiles please i for one would really like to see it go. but missiles need a speed boost as well, maybe a base speed of 30km / s (and vary by acceleration for each missile) with a dmg/rof bonus on caldari missile boats (raven, caracal, kestrel).
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:24:00 -
[28]
Quote:
maybe a base speed of 30km / s
That's maybe a tad too much speed 
¼©¼
a history |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:44:00 -
[29]
and the most fun part abaut cruise missiles is that they damage the one who fire em if they blast to close
last night a scorp atakked me, i pretendet i was jammed and didint lock on it untill i was in 7km- activated ECCM and lockke + Warp scramblet - after that i got even closer and startted my 4 Small Nosferatu  - After that i startted my 4 800mm repeeting's and and watched the scorp Squeel like a little Girl being raped :P
My ship were parkked abaut 10 meters from scorp so every torp/cruisemissile he shot did damage to me and him :P
and whit reducing his Cap recharge abaut 10 energy unit/ second Adding it to my capasitor ( got ower 30energy/second recharge ) i culd run my XLarge so much more
wel.. moral lesson of story?
Dont Never EVER let Ship that is faster than yurs get close... it got usualy reason to get close - and that reason is to get close and open can-o-w00pass 
and another moral lesson: Cruises suck at Exstream close ranges 
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Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.20 11:50:00 -
[30]
Quote:
4 Small Nosferatu
These things have awful stats... I'd look at other cap suckers.
¼©¼
a history |
Siddy
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Posted - 2004.02.20 12:07:00 -
[31]
Quote:
Quote:
4 Small Nosferatu
These things have awful stats... I'd look at other cap suckers.
Smal nosferatu drains 8 energy/ 3 seconds
( 8 x 4 / 3 = 10.6666)
They suck it from enemy and add it to u
Smal Cap neutralizer neutralizes 24 / 4 secs from Enemy AND urself
(24 x 4/4 = 24 energy /sec )
ill rather have b00sted cap than dry cap
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Cao Cao
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Posted - 2004.02.20 14:51:00 -
[32]
Quote:
After that i startted my 4 800mm repeeting's and and watched the scorp Squeel like a little Girl being raped :P
Siddy, siddy, siddy ole chap. well What can I say? your sense of erm, appropriateness, is somewhat lacking!
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Ruffles
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Posted - 2004.02.20 15:28:00 -
[33]
Missiles in real life don't explode in a ball around themselves.
They do focused damage, in most cases it is in a 45 degree cone extending in front of the missile.
No two missiles should blow themselves up, which is why you may see interceptors in real life firing two at once - the idea being that if one doesn't bring down the target your second will finish the job and you will not have to wait for flight time for another salvo to do the job.
Missiles should NOT blow each other up, I don't care what BH say's its strategic. When turrets fire through anything including friendlies but missiles impact and explode on anything en route to the target...
I wonder why firing my turrets through my friendly gang members doesn't harm them. 
Sorry but someone needs a minor grip here, and that is missiles shouldn't blow each other up unless its a defender doing its job.
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Estarriol
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Posted - 2004.02.20 15:32:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Estarriol on 20/02/2004 15:34:59
Quote:
Cao Cao say:
lol i love it how evolution trolls suddenly crawl out of the woodwork and hijack a completely constructive and legit thread.
As far as I can see, Dukath made a constructive reply, and Jim immediately responded with some characteristic comment about Dukath's 'back end'.
Jim then goes on with some accusation about Evol log on traps (which we don't use, and warping in at long-range bookmarks, which afaik is completely legit in this game, since there, after all, long-range weapons in the game.
Who do you suppose is doing more to 'hijack' the thread?
A discussion about missiles is always welcome... and I'd like to hear about people's experiences with them. But whenever Jim Raynor rears his ugly head, the thread deteriorates into his personal whinefest about how Caldari ships don't give him every possible advantages in the game. The thread may as well get hijacked at that point, as far as anyone getting much useful information from it.
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Brede Cleary
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Posted - 2004.02.20 16:17:00 -
[35]
Ruffles has an excellent point. All missles, rockets, torps and cruise missles should have directional charges to penetrate armor, just as tank ammo used now does. Why would anyone with half a brain expend energy in the direction of a vacuum when they are trying to penetrate an object? hmmm...let me think about that...cold shower time. Anyway.
Weapons makers would put directional charges on these things. We need to get rid of the splash damage and I think we will see it vanish in Shiva.
Regards
Stellar Products and Quality Resources
ticker: SPQR
established 6-03 |
Demos Q'algryph
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Posted - 2004.02.20 17:02:00 -
[36]
Actually, shape charged type explosives work better in atmosphere, than in space. Nukes work better on the planet, than in space. Its the way physics work.
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 17:21:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Jim Raynor on 20/02/2004 18:00:34
Quote:
As far as I can see, Dukath made a constructive reply, and Jim immediately responded with some characteristic comment about Dukath's 'back end'.
his comment was very noobish. if someone warps in 40km away from your gang, how do you get behind a target to 'hit it from all sides'? you don't, battleships can't go that fast, hell frigates don't move that fast, people using missiles firing at the target are going to have their missiles slamming into that target from the same side, duh.
when was the last time in teamspeak you said 'OK MISSILE USERS, EVERYONE GET INTO PERFECT POSITION AS TO NOT HAVE YOUR MISSILES BLOW EACH OTHER UP! GO!' seriously, we both know in reality this is not the case.
Quote:
Jim then goes on with some accusation about Evol log on traps (which we don't use, and warping in at long-range bookmarks, which afaik is completely legit in this game, since there, after all, long-range weapons in the game.
and you accuse me of 'docking' from your silly corp when really i've killed like what at least 10 of you and how many kills does evol have on me? oh ya, 0..
i like some of you evol folk but man, some of you are just, well dumb. =[
Quote:
A discussion about missiles is always welcome... and I'd like to hear about people's experiences with them. But whenever Jim Raynor rears his ugly head, the thread deteriorates into his personal whinefest about how Caldari ships don't give him every possible advantages in the game. The thread may as well get hijacked at that point, as far as anyone getting much useful information from it.
ya well missile splash damage is now gone on chaos and will be removed next patch so maybe there's something to all my 'whining' afterall, eh? it's kind of obvious splash damage is retarded considering all it does is blow up your own missiles and get you killed by concord if you're at war with another corp and come across a hostile target in empire..
OH NOS I NOW HAS TEH HUGE ADVANTAGE OF MY WEAPONS HITTING STUFF AND NOT DYING INSTANTLY TO INVULNERABLE NPC POLICE FOR FOR TRYING TO DEFEND MYSELF TEH GAME TRULY IS TEH IMBALANCED AND HIGHLY IN MR RAYNORS FAVOR!!!
WHATEVER SHALL WE DO!?!
plz..
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Riddari
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Posted - 2004.02.20 19:55:00 -
[38]
Quote:
ya well missile splash damage is now gone on chaos
yay... so any ETA on Tranquility?
¼©¼
a history |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 19:56:00 -
[39]
Quote:
Quote:
ya well missile splash damage is now gone on chaos
yay... so any ETA on Tranquility?
this wednesday or next
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Estarriol
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Posted - 2004.02.20 20:06:00 -
[40]
Quote:
his comment was very noobish. if someone warps in 40km away from your gang, how do you get behind a target to 'hit it from all sides'?
Answer is, if someone warps in 40 km away from your gang, you don't ALL spam missiles at the one guy.
Quote:
when was the last time in teamspeak you said 'OK MISSILE USERS, EVERYONE GET INTO PERFECT POSITION AS TO NOT HAVE YOUR MISSILES BLOW EACH OTHER UP! GO!' seriously, we both know in reality this is not the case.
Answer is, the last time we had opportunity to organize positions for an impending battle, we did in fact take note of our relative angles. If you're too much of a nub to notice these things, I can't help you.
Quote:
and you accuse me of 'docking' from your silly corp when really i've killed like what at least 10 of you and how many kills does evol have on me? oh ya, 0..
That would count as a 'non-response.' You have a reputation for being noticed in Local but docked -- that's based on observation. Your accusation about login traps was both non-sequitur and originating in the vicinity of your 'back end'.
Quote:
i like some of you evol folk but man, some of you are just, well dumb. =[
I like how the obvious rl retards always try and use this as a comeback.
Plz, indeed. Now back to everyone's regularly-scheduled discussion on cruise missiles....
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.02.20 20:28:00 -
[41]
now lets see what else Jim will find to whine abaut?
maybe " why doesent my missile salvos fire all missiles in tube whit one shot? in real life u can se big ships firing all at once"
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 20:47:00 -
[42]
Quote:
Answer is, if someone warps in 40 km away from your gang, you don't ALL spam missiles at the one guy.
So when you call targets in PVP, you just pick someone at random instead? Wouldn't that kind of make calling targets useless?
Focus firing is essential to fleet combat, the fact missiles really can't be focus fired effectively shows you that there is an issue here?
Quote:
Answer is, the last time we had opportunity to organize positions for an impending battle, we did in fact take note of our relative angles. If you're too much of a nub to notice these things, I can't help you.
Sure if you're the one in a defensive position.. and if you're the people warping in? Even then, what you're saying is mostly horse ****.
Quote:
That would count as a 'non-response.' You have a reputation for being noticed in Local but docked -- that's based on observation. Your accusation about login traps was both non-sequitur and originating in the vicinity of your 'back end'.
Care to give me some examples? Last time I was 'docked' with Evolution in a system was at the very begining of the CA/SA war when your corp, Stains corps, Fountains corps, and the kitchen sink would log off in HLW before server downtime to mass log in at server up and camp the system all morning.
I'd log on and 30+ of you would be in local, and start trash talking me for not undocking into your gank squad.
Wow, now I see how I earned such a reputation! I certainly am a huge coward for not undocking to fight 30:1 odds where I would probably be killed before I even got past the loading screen!
Of course this is coming from a corporation that would 'defend' Fountain from the inside of stations while having over 30 allies in local but being held up like little girls from 6 m0o/SINC battleships.
Good times, eh?
Quote:
I like how the obvious rl retards always try and use this as a comeback.
You would be one of the dumb ones, fyi.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Dukath
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Posted - 2004.02.20 21:16:00 -
[43]
I was gonna write some noobish personal attack on Jim but then .. why bother. It is very much possible to surround a target, both when you are in a defensive as in an offensive position. Its too bad some people simply don't have the tactical skill to figure it out. Must say moo has gone downhill a lot with their newer recruits :/
Removing splash damage was not needed at all, but apparently its gonna be done anyway. Oh well, it has its positive sides and negative ones. For one drones wont be as vulnerable to missile users anymore, negative side is probably and increased spamming of missiles with the extra lag added and a reduction in tactical abilities of the opponent in combating/taking advantage of his missiles/torpedos. I guess the carebears have won again :(
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 21:22:00 -
[44]
Quote:
I was gonna write some noobish personal attack on Jim but then .. why bother. It is very much possible to surround a target, both when you are in a defensive as in an offensive position. Its too bad some people simply don't have the tactical skill to figure it out. Must say moo has gone downhill a lot with their newer recruits :/
Heh, I was owning your corporation in Fountain before you were even in Evolution, say what you want nooblar.
Quote:
Removing splash damage was not needed at all, but apparently its gonna be done anyway. Oh well, it has its positive sides and negative ones. For one drones wont be as vulnerable to missile users anymore, negative side is probably and increased spamming of missiles with the extra lag added and a reduction in tactical abilities of the opponent in combating/taking advantage of his missiles/torpedos. I guess the carebears have won again :(
Another clueless comment, thank you very much random Evolution noob #2078.
Let me guess, Doped Players INC recruit?
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.20 21:43:00 -
[45]
One problem with removing splash damage from cruises is that a Raven can now launch a crapload of missiles at once and they will ALL hit ALL at once - makes it pretty hard to boost your shield when 6 paradise have raped you
Smartbombs are going to be really popular.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2004.02.20 21:53:00 -
[46]
Quote:
One problem with removing splash damage from cruises is that a Raven can now launch a crapload of missiles at once and they will ALL hit ALL at once - makes it pretty hard to boost your shield when 6 paradise have raped you
Smartbombs are going to be really popular.
Doing that would effectively make them much easier to counter with a single smartbomb burst. I would still stagger my missiles, albiet now I won't have to swear by it to avoid completely ruining my volleys damage.
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ROBBLE ROBBLE |
Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.02.20 21:57:00 -
[47]
Quote:
Quote:
One problem with removing splash damage from cruises is that a Raven can now launch a crapload of missiles at once and they will ALL hit ALL at once - makes it pretty hard to boost your shield when 6 paradise have raped you
Smartbombs are going to be really popular.
Doing that would effectively make them much easier to counter with a single smartbomb burst. I would still stagger my missiles, albiet now I won't have to swear by it to avoid completely ruining my volleys damage.
Good point - maybe I'll swap my Mega for a Raven now.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
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