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Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:24:00 - [121] Edited by: Matalino on 22/10/2007 20:25:37 Originally by: jongalt im sure you are EULA compliant to the letter. however, i wonder if the spirit of the game is compromised. (perhaps that is only my loss.) No. That is a fair question. I am perhaps comprimising the priciple that it should not be possible to earn ISK when AFK. However, that is also the case with operation of a research lab. As you said, supplying datacores could be called a public service. I don't know of too many players (perhaps not T2 BPO owners) that would not like to see lower datacore prices allowing lower T2 item prices due to invention. I can tolerate the lower datacore prices that I would generate by harvesting these datacores as I make up for those lower prices through volume. I have publicly stated what my minimum price is needed to ensure viablilty of the corp, and it is about a third of current prices. I am confident that competition would back off before the price reachs that low. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
MasterTao Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:54:00 - [122] Edited by: MasterTao on 22/10/2007 20:55:18 Don't know if it is asked before, since i just skimmed through the pages. What happens when u decide to stop the business and sell the characters? Will investor get back only what they paid for initially or will there be extra compensation? From my understanding, unlike other IPOs where there is a cost of operation, the money spend in your operation (GTC) adds value to the toons. Therefore it is like a fixed asset that keep on increasing value every month and not operation expense. All the profit you make from selling the datacores are actually retained 100%. So after 8% monthly dividend, the remaining 92% are kept by the company. Most of its value locked in the toon themselves. So unless i'm missing something big here, after your toons are established. Your profit is close to 14+ billion every month assuming you are gonna sell those 144 characters someday.
jongalt	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:58:00 - [123] ok. thanks for acknowledging what is "lost" and what is "gained". im sure you already know this but if you dont, Rells is lobbying for a nerf on your datacores in the test server forum. since he still believes in the "arborescent" model of political change as opposed to the "rhizomatic" model that the devs seem to respond to, i doubt he will be successful. good luck with your IPO. i dont mean this as a parthian shot, but i wonder if this model of "meta-gaming" encourages a certain ethic (or lack thereof) of "big-business". and if so, is that a good thing? -jg.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:05:00 - [124] Originally by: MasterTao Don't know if it is asked before, since i just skimmed through the pages. What happens when u decide to stop the business and sell the characters? None of the characters will ever be sold. The only source of revenue is the sale of datacores. If I decide to quit Eve, the characters will simply be left on my inactive accounts. Originally by: MasterTao Will investor get back only what they paid for initially or will there be extra compensation? If the project is successful, investors will get back what they paid along with the promised interest. There is an on going discussion of how this might be changed. With the new proposal, (which is still being discussed and has not yet been presented to investors to make any desicions on) there would be an increased risk that they might not get the full amount that they paid back. However, this risk is offset by the possiblilty that they could earn FAR more than the originally promissed return of 4% bi-weekly. Even with the new proposal, the aim of the worst case scenario is that investors would still get their original investment plus interest. It is only in the event of a worse than worst case scenario (if that makes any sense) that investor would not get their original investment with interest. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:07:00 - [125] Originally by: jongalt im sure you already know this but if you dont, Rells is lobbying for a nerf on your datacores in the test server forum. I will need to have a look at that. Thanks for the head up. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:55:00 - [126] Originally by: jongalt i dont mean this as a parthian shot, but i wonder if this model of "meta-gaming" encourages a certain ethic (or lack thereof) of "big-business". and if so, is that a good thing? To me "meta-gaming" is just another part of "gaming". I make little if any distinction. Most game that I play, not just computer games, I enjoy the meta-game, more than the actual game. Everyone enjoys different styles of gaming. The great beauty of Eve is that it has so very many styles of game play that are possible. I do not think that my style degrades anyone elses. If anything it helps pull together the whole into something greater than each of its parts. Thanks to your questions, I have taken the time to reflect on how my project will help other players gain easier access to the equipment that they want, and how I will make live harder for those evil ISK sellers by providing greater demand for legitimate GTC trades. This on top of providing investors an opportunity to invest in something intersting, and giving myself a challenge to rise to. As for ethics, I try to aspire to the highest moral standards that I can. It is simply a choice, one that I often see contrasted against the choice of others. But it is contrast and opposition that make life so interesting and beautiful. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
MasterTao Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:30:00 - [127] Edited by: MasterTao on 22/10/2007 22:30:31 Originally by: Matalino None of the characters will ever be sold. The only source of revenue is the sale of datacores. If I decide to quit Eve, the characters will simply be left on my inactive accounts. Are you seriously saying that you will forsake hundreds of billions of potential sale? That's either very noble or very um.. well... Don't get me wrong, I think this IPO is brilliant. waaaay too brilliant.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:54:00 - [128] Well the trick is, he can cancel the accounts for as long as he wants and if he ever comes back all the juicy datacores will be waiting for him to come harvest. A friend of mine who hasn't played in a long time let me get all the datacores from his 10 agents across two characters. 3 years of RPs is a lot of datacores...
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:14:00 - [129] Originally by: MasterTao Edited by: MasterTao on 22/10/2007 22:30:31 Originally by: Matalino None of the characters will ever be sold. The only source of revenue is the sale of datacores. If I decide to quit Eve, the characters will simply be left on my inactive accounts. Are you seriously saying that you will forsake hundreds of billions of potential sale? That's either very noble or very um.. well... or very um.. well... Sane! There is no way in hell that I plan on spending $2,880 to transfer those character to somebody else, no matter how much imaginary money I get for it. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Oron	Posted - 2007.10.23 06:46:00 - [130] Sure, Matalino I can understand that you can not sell the characters, but thats also the reason I will not invest into your business. Basicly your investors pay you the skill time of the alternate chars and only get a share of the datacores they harvest. While the character are the more valueable assest (cause they "make" the datacores), and you just keep them forever. Its basicly an investment of ISK in a "real world item": character accounts - that cant work and is somehow shady. Sorry.
Shinhan Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:19:00 - [131] Originally by: Oron Sure, Matalino I can understand that you can not sell the characters, but thats also the reason I will not invest into your business. Basicly your investors pay you the skill time of the alternate chars and only get a share of the datacores they harvest. While the character are the more valueable assest (cause they "make" the datacores), and you just keep them forever. Its basicly an investment of ISK in a "real world item": character accounts - that cant work and is somehow shady. Sorry. Under the new, proposed, payment plan, the only profit he will get out of running this IPO will be the characters themselves. -- Selling apples, 1 signature each. ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:15:00 - [132] Edited by: Minerva Vulcan on 23/10/2007 11:15:48 Originally by: jongalt im sure you are EULA compliant to the letter. however, i wonder if the spirit of the game is compromised. (perhaps that is only my loss.) -jg. Personally I think it's plenty within the spirit of the game. EVE is the most open game I've ever played. Pretty much anything goes here, and if you have the imagination to think it up and the means to pull it off, you can do whatever you want, so long as it's within the terms of the EULA, which this indeed is. EVE is a game that rewards creativity.
Oron	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:12:00 - [133] Originally by: Shinhan Under the new, proposed, payment plan, the only profit he will get out of running this IPO will be the characters themselves. Intresting, did'nt know that.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:20:00 - [134] Originally by: Shinhan Under the new, proposed, payment plan, the only profit he will get out of running this IPO will be the characters themselves. This has always been the only payment that I would get. The only real question is when do I get paid. I am allowing discussion on is when I get that payment. Under the current system, it would be as soon as the characters generate enough revenues to repay investors their investment plus interest. Under the proposed system, it would be Jan 2009 regardless of how profitable the characters are between now and then. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
jongalt	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:24:00 - [135] Quote: Personally I think it's plenty within the spirit of the game. EVE is the most open game I've ever played. Pretty much anything goes here, and if you have the imagination to think it up and the means to pull it off, you can do whatever you want, so long as it's within the terms of the EULA, which this indeed is. EVE is a game that rewards creativity. i understand its a sandbox game. im not advocating some kind of neo-marxist economy. however, i question the "ethics" of that justification: anything is "okay", as long as its legal. if "ethics" have nothing to do with business, i guess im either naive, or see nothing but bad examples being set by big-business in rl. while eve is not "rl" in the literal sense, it is created by people who live in "rl" and could be considered a "mirror" to "rl" with lessons to be learned or unlearned. and that, to me, is more valuable than circumsribing the differences between eve and "rl", or ruling out the possibility that eve offers any insight into larger "rl" questions. i dont want to derail the thread any more; i only wanted to cautiously point out what was "lost" and what was "gained" as some kind of milestone (or barometer) of "market ethics". matalino, thanks for your patience. -jg.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 18:52:00 - [136] This week's batch of 15,000 shares will be released in full, effective 23:00 2007-10-25 GMT. Each of those shares will be sold at 108,160.00 ISK each for a total of 1,622,400,000 ISK. The shares will be issued on a first-come first-served basis. As before, shares are purchased by sending ISK directly to the corp [DATAC] Datacore Harvesting. If you send ISK to any of my characters I will still return your ISK, but you will most likely miss out on the opportunity to purchase shares in this batch. To ensure fairness in this race any ISK sent at or before 23:29:59 2007-10-25 will be returned. Shares only will be issued for purchases made at or after 23:30:00 2007-10-25. Shares will be issued in the order that they appear in my Wallet Journal API export. If excess ISK is received, it will be returned, just as was the case with the last batch. Please check the date in-game before sending any ISK, as I do not want to issue a bunch of refunds tomorrow night. The shares will not be available until more than two days after this post. I will NOT be making another post at 23:30 2007-10-25. Purchasing will simply begin at that time. Rather I expect to make a post around 23:35 2007-10-25 providing an initial status update on the progress of sales. I have received more than enough enquiries regarding the purchase of these share to indicate that they will be sold out in short order. More than one person (no, Ricdic was not one of them) has told me that they intend to buy out this entire batch. They may or may not be available to log in at that time, so do not feel immeadiately discouraged by that news. I wish each of you the best of luck with making your purchase. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 18:52:00 - [137] Before anyone else invests in this IPO, I want to reiterate the two assumptions upon which the success of this IPO depends. - Datacore prices will remain above 600K for the next year to year and a half. - 30 Day GTC prices will remain below 240M for the next year to year and a half. If you do not agree with those assumptions, then do not invest. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 18:53:00 - [138] There are also a few items of business for shareholders to concider. First, this weekend there will be a vote to decide if this IPO is to expand. I would ask you to read over that thread and make your decision on how you will vote on that proposal. Second, there is currently a discussion of a possible change to the financing structure of this IPO. Currently this is still just discussion. However, I expect to form the results of that discussion into a proposal to be voted on some time in early November. I would ask that anyone who is investing to please read that discussion and provide some input. Lastly, regardless of the outcome of that proposal, I expect that this will be the last batch of shares to be issued in the form of a race at a fixed price. Regardless of the financing model selected, it is in the interest of the corp (and therefore the interest of investors) to issue the fewest possible shares to raise the needed captial. As such, I expect that all future batches of shares will be issued in some form of auction. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.10.24 01:02:00 - [139] Originally by: Matalino [b]- 30 Day GTC prices will remain below 240M for the next year to year and a half. If these are going to be long term toons then why would you even be looking at the 30 GTC price? You should be buying 90 days GTC's which cost less per month then the 30 day. In which case you should have even higher profit.
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 01:29:00 - [140] Please put me down for... ooops...(edited, wanted x shares but will wait until the 25th :)...I guess I will have to wait for the sales thread. do initial investors get a shout in? ;) And good luck with you new venture Shiva/Ghost Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game)
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 03:05:00 - [141] Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 03:10:03 Originally by: Fitz VonHeise If these are going to be long term toons then why would you even be looking at the 30 GTC price? You should be buying 90 days GTC's which cost less per month then the 30 day. In which case you should have even higher profit. I have my reasons. Some others have figured out what those reasons are, but in the interest of not providing a one stop shop on how to build a competing datacore harvesting business I will not repeat those reasons myself. Don't worry, there is a perfectly good reason for that choice. Originally by: Shiva Shakti I guess I will have to wait for the sales thread. There will not be a sales thread, as I expect the shares to sell out so fast that there is no point on creating a seperate thread. Come 23:30 on Oct 25, just send the ISK directly to Datacore Harvesting and hope that you are the first. If you are more than a few minutes late, check this thread first. Because there have been several people who have said that they intend to buy out the whole thing, I would not be suprised if it was all done and over with by 23:35. On the other hand those people might have problems with their internet connection, be stuck at work, or otherwise unable to log in, so don't give up completely. Check here as I will update the first couple of lines of this thread as soon as the shares have sold out. Originally by: Shiva Shakti do initial investors get a shout in? ;) Initial investors will have to take their chances just like everyone else, if they want to buy more shares. Initial investors get their advantage by getting lower prices as share prices will only get higher. They also get to vote in how the IPO will progress. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.24 05:07:00 - [142] Quote: Lastly, regardless of the outcome of that proposal, I expect that this will be the last batch of shares to be issued in the form of a race at a fixed price. Regardless of the financing model selected, it is in the interest of the corp (and therefore the interest of investors) to issue the fewest possible shares to raise the needed captial. As such, I expect that all future batches of shares will be issued in some form of auction. "Best interests" are entirely dependent on which payment model you eventually end up running with. Under the current model of 4% bi-weekly, the only interests served by releasing shares as an auction will be your own. I'll be drawing a fixed 4% either way. My original plan when I bought into your second share batch was to continue to make additional investments along the way. I will do that if share prices remain as originally advertised. I won't invest further if an auction ends up driving those prices up, as doing so would result in less than 8% monthly ROI. 8%+ is attainable through other, equally solid avenues. If you end up with an approved expansion and an approval on your other proposed payment model, I may reconsider future investments even under an auction system. You know I respect you, and I have the utmost faith in my original investment. But the prospect of future investment is totally clouded for me by the number of details you have on the table for change. I can't see re-investing until decisions are made, and you achieve some sort of stability with the business plan. You have a head on your shoulders, which is why I'm trying to be tolerant of all the changes you're making to very important details of the plan that I invested in less than a month ago. But I do find myself hoping that other IPO managers aren't paying attention, as you may actually be setting dangerous precedents. If I found any of your changes terribly objectionable, I might be pretty ****ed off right about now. I don't so far, but that may not be the point. Still looking forward to seeing how all the pieces of this end up fitting together, and still finding plenty of love in my heart for you, Mat Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:01:00 - [143] Just remember Kitex it is only a discussion thread at this point. I wouldn't spend too much time understanding the specific changes until it passes the discussion phase. It's like me buying up 10 billion isk worth of Quafe due to hearing about the walking on stations change that may be happening in a year or two. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:00:00 - [144] Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 15:05:28 Originally by: Kitex "Best interests" are entirely dependent on which payment model you eventually end up running with. Under the current model of 4% bi-weekly, the only interests served by releasing shares as an auction will be your own. I'll be drawing a fixed 4% either way. I agree that under the current financing model, I have the most to gain by allowing shares to be sold at higher prices. However, existing investors do stand to gain added security because of such sales. By accumulating less debt, I would be able to sustain the promised returns under DC prices lower than the currently assumed 600K. Under the current financing model, I do not seriously expect anyone to pay more than 4-8% more than the recommended share price, and I do not expect prudent investors to pay anything more than the recommended share price. There is no reason or reward for them to do so. However, if there are investors who are willing to give up a few week's worth of returns so that they can ensure that shares are available, then I see no reason why I should not allow them to pad either my wallet or my margins of error by doing so. Under the proposed financing, existing investors would stand to gain all of the profits from the speculation of new investors, because all profits will be paid out during the first year. I have no idea how that feedback loop will play out, it could possibly cause share prices to rise quickly because the higher the share prices, the higher the return will be on each share. The advantage of course for you is that, those who purchased early at low fixed rates stand the most to gain by such speculation. However, as Ricdic said: It's like me buying up 10 billion isk worth of Quafe due to hearing about the walking on stations change that may be happening in a year or two. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:00:00 - [145] Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 15:02:19 Originally by: Kitex My original plan when I bought into your second share batch was to continue to make additional investments along the way. I will do that if share prices remain as originally advertised. I won't invest further if an auction ends up driving those prices up, as doing so would result in less than 8% monthly ROI. 8%+ is attainable through other, equally solid avenues. Since you seem to be a prudent and wise investor, I would not expect you to invest under the existing financing model at anything more than recommended share price set out in the original prospectus. Originally by: Kitex You know I respect you, and I have the utmost faith in my original investment. But the prospect of future investment is totally clouded for me by the number of details you have on the table for change. I can't see re-investing until decisions are made, and you achieve some sort of stability with the business plan. I understand completely. I want to get set on a firm course of action as soon as possible. At this point I am unsure of how investors feel about the basic principle (aside from any detailed proposal) behind the change in the financing plans. I donÆt know how many investors are interested in potentially volatile returns verse how many are only interested in the originally planned fixed returns. So far the most vocal input in the discussion has been largely academic, as the comments come from those who would not invest under either or any financing model. Had I not been contact in-game by at least one investor saying that he was most interested in the possibilities that such a change could offer, I would probably just shelve the whole thing and stick with the original plan, as that is by far the most profitable for myself. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:01:00 - [146] Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 15:01:56 Originally by: Kitex But I do find myself hoping that other IPO managers aren't paying attention, as you may actually be setting dangerous precedents. I hope that the only precedent that I am setting is that IPO managers will communicate with the community and follow the desires of their investors. I will not even consider making any changes that are not fully supported by investors. I will also do my very best to provide an exit option for investors who do not agree with those changes. Originally by: Kitex If I found any of your changes terribly objectionable, I might be pretty **ed off right about now. I don't so far, but that may not be the point. I take that to mean that you have at least a cautious interest in seeing what addition possibilities I might be able to offer. Originally by:** Kitex Still looking forward to seeing how all the pieces of this end up fitting together, and still finding plenty of love in my heart for you, Mat Thank you again for your support. It is greatly appreciated. As Ricdic said, at this point it is still just discussion and speculation. As for all of the speculation and discussion, I plan to put that to rest next week as soon as the dust settles from the shares that are to be sold this week and the vote regarding expansion. Those who hold shares after this sale will decide the direction of the IPO, and that will be the end of it. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:23:00 - [147] Originally by: Matalino Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 15:01:56 Originally by: Kitex But I do find myself hoping that other IPO managers aren't paying attention, as you may actually be setting dangerous precedents. I hope that the only precedent that I am setting is that IPO managers will communicate with the community and follow the desires of their investors. I will not even consider making any changes that are not fully supported by investors. I will also do my very best to provide an exit option for investors who do not agree with those changes. The precedent you're setting is that your initial format was an unsecured loan of 25 billion at a rate of 4% per fortnight dressed up so the inattentive thought it was an IPO. And a lot of people didn't even notice it, due to taking at face value statements like "giving all profits to share-holders" when in fact the bulk of profits went to you so you could pay off the loan/purchase the share-holders' equity. The danger isn't what YOU did - your proposal DID detail the financial model but just carefully avoided describing it as what it was (an unsecured loan - with no real ownership in the company and no profit-sharing). The disturbing element, to me, is that a lot of the initial discussion focussed on how good the plan to make profti for yourself was rather than looking at what the "share-holders'" got out of it - with some people conufsing the two through their own inability to understand that what they were actually being offered. The amusing thing about it is that there's actually serious debate over whether a 25 billion unsecured loan is enough for someone with no track record and no disclosed substantial assets - and whether, instead a 50 billion unsecured loan is more appropriate. In fairness, there is also discussion of a change of the model to at least make a nod in the general direction of it actually being an IPO. You played it well. Selling Ricdic the first batch of shares was actually a master-stroke. It got the forum discussion onto how people could get shares - and away from looking at closely at what share-holders actually stood to gain. It also locked Ricdic in - no way he could then point out it was just an unsecured loan (if he'd even noticed that was the structure) as he'd risk losing his own investment if he did that. Seperating the disucssion of expansion/profit-sharing was also a smart move - as was then apparently saying that if the expansion isn't approved the profit-sharing won't change (i.e. linking them back togetehr after apparently saying they were two different issues). I suspect most forum readers haven't figured out yet the significance of that. Well done all round basically - you've managed to keep discussion largely away from the trickier elements of the plan (those dealing with shareholder risk/return) and on the easy bits (how the plan makes you a load of cash if it goes well). Shockingly, noone at all has even noticed (or at least commented on) what's probably the biggest risk to the initial plan (and it's not scamming OR data-core prices). I'll stay out of further discussion of the plan - and it's not impossible that I may invest (depending on what changes happen to the pay-out model).
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:45:00 - [148] hehe well it's always possible that this was his master plan. Who knows. But I don't think anyone would be able to pull off such a stunt. Plus he didn't offer me anything, I read the plan, discussed some changes, and then a few days later advised I wanted the first batch If we don our tin foil hats we may be onto something Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:04:00 - [149] Originally by: Ricdic hehe well it's always possible that this was his master plan. Who knows. But I don't think anyone would be able to pull off such a stunt. Plus he didn't offer me anything, I read the plan, discussed some changes, and then a few days later advised I wanted the first batch If we don our tin foil hats we may be onto something I never suggested he offered you anything (beyond the first batch of shares when you asked for them). I don't for a moment believe that he bribed you or similar - if that's how you read my remarks. But it IS a fact that: a) The initial plan is structured so that it behaves exactly like an unsecured loan rather than like an IPO. b) That you either never noticed or never commented on that fact. c) That when I pointed that out in an earlier thread, neither you or he disputed it - despite it being VERY easy to demonstrate as being wrong if it was an incorrect statement by me. Do you disagree with either of those 3 assertions? Or would you rather just make more comments about tin-foil hats etc?
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:47:00 - [150] Nah the tin foil hat thing was ie if we assumed that he had planned for all of this to happen from the start, that's all. Quote: I never suggested he offered you anything (beyond the first batch of shares when you asked for them). I don't for a moment believe that he bribed you or similar - if that's how you read my remarks. No not at all, was more that his plan would have been extremely well thought out if my buying it out was part of his master plan Quote: a) The initial plan is structured so that it behaves exactly like an unsecured loan rather than like an IPO. Agreed Quote: b) That you either never noticed or never commented on that fact. As you have said, the initial plan shows precisely the information you need to make the assertion as to the type and design of the operation. The advanced material available to the board is operational material that can be used in direct competition against him. Basically the dummies guide to datacore harvesting with (almost) step by step instructions, complete information including agent listings, datacore amounts per agent, time/amount of missions required for standing, times when skills finish training etc etc. All information that the public needed to know is in the document publicised. I am runnning through the advanced document once more to make sure. Short of exact timelines on what should be training here, what should be active/inactive when, etc I cannot see anything relating to the board themselves that would require me to comment on it. Someone offers a business plan, I am asked to comment on the ability of that business plan to succeed after reading the details. I comment that his business plan is sound. I may suggest Matalino reads out the exit strategy from the advanced report, as that gives some info that may be useful to people interested in investing. Quote: c) That when I pointed that out in an earlier thread, neither you or he disputed it - despite it being VERY easy to demonstrate as being wrong if it was an incorrect statement by me. I am not here to correct you, I have my own dealings to attend too. My purpose here is to advise that his business plan is well thought out, and in my opinion well worth investing in. Now, when I purchased 1.85b worth of this investment I knew there was a fixed return, and I also knew there would be a buyback later. As with all businesses, there was always the risk of failure/scam, and in this case the lack of fixed assets may cause some problems. Quote: Do you disagree with either of those 3 assertions? Course not, I just think it's far fetched to believe that everything that has happened with this IPO has been planned down to the last letter. That's where the tin foil hat came from Quote: make more comments about tin-foil hats etc? Tin Foil hats are purely awesome. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here

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