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Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 03:28:00 - [1] Overview After testing the waters with the recent bond Ki Tech Industries has found that there is huge potential for investment and profit in mass datacore harvesting. As such I am proud to announce the launch of this IPO for Datacore Harvesting. This investment opportunity will offer a 4% bi-weekly return, which is effectively more than 8% return each month. During the first 24 weeks, no cash interest payments will be made. Instead the interest will be compounded into the stock price. Stocks will be issued in batches staggered through the next 24 weeks as detailed below. Starting with Week 24, interest will be paid out as a dividend. After Week 24 the corp will also have the option of buying back the value of the stock that has been built up during the first 24 weeks. It is during this phase where the investors will see the promised returns appear in their wallets. Dividends will be made to cover the on going interest payments against the principle and its compounded interest from the first 24 weeks. Dividends will also be made to repay that compounded interest, then eventually repay the original principle. The capital raised from investors will be used to build an army of Datacore harvesters. The first 24 weeks is the time during which these harvesters will be trained in their respective fields. During this time their Datacore yields will be minimal. That is why no dividends are paid during this time, and the earned interest is compounded into the stock price until yields justify payment of dividends. By the 26th week, Datacore yields will be high enough to begin cash payments. A Board of Directors will be formed to verify the viability of the business plan, monitor its progress, and provide guidance for expansion in the case of success and forming alternate plans should there be any unforseen problems. Reports will be made to the Board and to the public on a bi-weekly basis. Ricdic has volunteered as the first member of the Board of Directors. One or two more Directors will be selected from those who invest. Now into the details... ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 03:28:00 - [2] Financing Details As stated in the outline, during the first 24 weeks the interest will be compounded into the stock price. As such the stock price will increase as follows: 100,000.00Oct 06 104,000.00Oct 20 108,160.00Nov 03 112,486.40Nov 17 116,985.86Dec 01 121,665.29Dec 15 126,531.90Dec 29 131,593.18Jan 12 136,856.91Jan 26 142,331.18Feb 09 148,024.43Feb 23 153,945.41Mar 08 160,103.22Mar 22 Beginning Apr 5, interest payments will be made via dividend so the stock price will no longer increase. That first interest payment will be 6,404.13 ISK/share which is 4% of 160,103.22. Payments equal to 4% of the stock value will be made every second Saturday after that. Also beginning Apr 5, the corp will begin paying out the interest that has been compounded during the first 24 weeks. Just for the sake of an example, if the additional payment made on Apr 5 was 10,103.22 ISK/share (this is in addition to the 6,404.13 already paid in interest that week) then the value of the stock for that coming week would be 150,000.00 ISK/share. In that case the dividend for Apr 19 would be 60,00.00 ISK/share. These numbers are just an example. The actual rate of payment will be determined based on the profits generated by the Datacores. The Board of Directors will be involved in deciding the rate of repayment. The stocks will be issued in batches between now and Apr 5. The total amount of ISK that will be raised for this venture is approx 24 Billion. Those investing early need not worry about their investment being devalued by latecomers, as those who invest early will be able to purchase stocks for a lower price. Regardless of when you invest, you will receive a return of 4% every two weeks, or >8% every month. The first batch of shares to be released have been planned for the next few weeks. Oct 02 - Oct 06 -> 17,500 Shares @ 100,000.00 for a total of 1,750,000,000 ISK Oct 07 - Oct 20 -> 46,500 Shares @ 104,000.00 for a total of 4,836,000,000 ISK Oct 21 - Nov 03 -> ~15,000 Shares @ 108,160.00 for a total of 1,622,400,000 ISK This will raise a total of 8,208,400,000 ISK. The remaining 16 billion will be raised in blocks over the 24 week growth period. The current estimated plan for the release of these shares is as follows: Nov 17 - Dec 01 -> ~49,500 Shares @ 116,985.86 for a total of 5,790,799,872 ISK Dec 02 - Dec 15 -> ~15,500 Shares @ 121,665.29 for a total of 1,885,811,999 ISK Jan 12 - Jan 26 -> ~49,000 Shares @ 136,856.91 for a total of 6,705,988,347 ISK Feb 23 - Mar 08 -> ~37,500 Shares @ 153,945.41 for a total of 5,772,952,711 ISK These last 4 batches are currently just estimates. The actual number of shares that will be released and the dates that they are released will be dependant on the amount and timing of ISK needed to maintain operations. The release of shares will be announced well in advance. The corporation has been created with 240,000 shares. The total number of shares currently planned for release to the public is 198,500. The additional shares were created to deal with possible worst-case scenarios. The details of these scenarios have been outlined for the Board of Directors. Basically it comes down to releasing just enough shares to cover the operational costs, and releasing them just before the ISK is needed. In all cases with the release of additional shares, the price of the shares will be set so that the rate of return is fixed at 4% bi-weekly. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 03:29:00 - [3] Business Operations Due to the need of protecting the actual business operations, detailed specifics cannot be released to the public. However, I will provided what details I can in this section. Complete details have been provided to members of the Board of Directors. Any changes or adjustments to that plan will also be provided to the Board, along with bi-weekly progress reports. What I can reveal is that we will be focusing on Mechanical Engineering and Molecular Engineering Datacores. Anyone who looks at the market will quickly see that these are in the greatest demand with the highest prices. 24 accounts will be created for this IPO and will only be used for this purpose. 72 characters will be created on those accounts and their only training will be to maximize Datacore yields. Operations during the first 24 weeks will mostly be skill training. The characters will begin harvesting Datacores as soon as possible. However, yields during this time are expected to be quite limited. This is the reason that no dividends will be issued during this time. The Datacore yields that will be available after 24 weeks have been carefully projected. The revenues from these datacores will be more than enough to cover the interest payments on both the principle and the accumulated interest. The details of these calculations are available to the Board, but will not be released to the public because of the need to protect the business plan. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 03:29:00 - [4] Questions and Answers How big will this project be? Approx 24 Billion ISK will be raised from the public. When dividends begin to flow the total value of the shares will be 38 billion. About 20% of those shares are expected to still belong to the corp. How much of a return am I getting again? 4% every two weeks. This works out to 8.16% every four weeks. For the first six months the returns will be paid out through increased stock value. After those first six months the cash dividend paid out will be much more that. Estimates are 12% to 24% per month (4% interest + 2% to 8% repayment bi-weekly) depending on Datacore prices. Why aren't you releasing all of the shares at once? I am releasing shares in waves so that the business can provide as high of return as possible by limiting interest paid on capital that is not needed until later in the project. If I were to pay interest on all of the money right from the beginning, I would need to lower our rate of return to keep the project profitable. Because the release of shares will be staggered, investors can use their money to earn interest in other ways while waiting for more shares to be released. If you are going to be selling shares near the end of the project, isn't it better to wait until then to invest? No, if you invest by Oct 13 you will only pay 100K per share. If you wait until Mar 29, you will pay 16M per share. In both cases you will receive an interest payment on Apr 5 based on the share value of 160K. So if you invest in the first week, the value of your shares will have increased by 60%. What if you don't sell all of the shares? During the first 3 batches of shares it will be possible to adjust the size of the business plan to match the amount of ISK raised. If the later batches do not sell out, then additional changes will need to be made to the business plan. However, I do not expect that will be a problem. For one, I expect that KITI Bond 2007-09 will have been paid out by then and that my happy investors from that project will be looking for a new place to invest. Also, it is in the interest of any current investors to plan to invest in the later phases to ensure the protection of their initial investment. There will be plenty of time for people to invest and the availability of those shares will be advertised well in advance. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 03:30:00 - [5] Questions and Answers Cont... What happens if the price of Datacores drops? The business plan is still solid even if our Datacore prices drop below 600,000 ISK/unit. That is less than half of their current price in Jita. In the unlikely event that the price drops below this point I will consult with the Board of Directors and we will form a plan then present it to the investors. What happens if the price of GTC's goes up? Again we have planned for that possibility. The price of Datacores can crash as answered in the previous question and we can still afford to buy GTC's at 240M for 30 days. Again in the unlikely event that both Datacore prices crash and GTC prices sky rocket, the Board will be consulted and the investors presented with the resulting plan of action. Sounds like you have planned carefully for a worst-case scenario. What happens if everything works out better than expected? Depending on how well things go, I will talk with the Board and see how we can continue to expand and/or offer higher returns to investors. However, keep in mind that I make no promises at this time that higher returns will be available. I will simply work with the Board to form the best business plan for everyone. How do you plan to grind up the standings to access level 4 R&D agents on all of those characters? Sorry, but that is a confidential part of the business plan. The specifics have been revealed to the Board along with all the other details, but in order protect your investment we will not reveal it to the public. Rest assured that there will be no problem in getting the standings required for this project. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 03:30:00 - [6] Now that I have described the plan. I am happy to announce that the first block of 17,500 shares has already been sold out. When I presented the final version of this proposal along with the full business plan details provided to him as a member of the Board of Directors, Ricdic informed me that he intended to buy out the entire 1.75 Billion ISK in shares that were to be released during the week of Oct 1 - Oct 6. We agreed that it would be bad form to publicly offer those shares, only to have him buy them all up within 30 seconds because he knew they were coming. So instead we are stating his purchase of those shares as a part of the initial announcement and moving on directly to the second block of shares. I will leave it to Ricdic to explain his reasons for wanting to buy out the entire first block of shares. The second block of shares are being released with the intention of selling them during the two weeks of Oct 7 - Oct 20. They have been priced based on the Oct 20 share value for this reason. As I expect that they will be in popular demand, I will be accepting pre-orders effective immediately. There will only be 46,500 Shares available at 104,000.00 ISK/share. Shares will be sold on a first-come-first-served basis. To order your shares simply send the proper amount of ISK directly to the corp [DATAC] Datacore Harvesting. Purchases will be processed in the order that the ISK is received. While there is no need for you to post on the forums to confirm your purchase, if you wish to so, please use the Sell Order thread. This thread is for discussion of the IPO itself. If ISK is received after this block has been sold out, it will be returned. For simplicity of accounting and to ensure that there is no miscommunication of intentions, orders sent in at this time cannot be applied to the third block of shares. The ISK will be returned and if the person still wishes to purchases shares during the third block they will need to resend the ISK. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Genbukan Best Buy INC	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:02:00 - [7] Edited by: Genbukan on 04/10/2007 04:03:02 Sounds interesting
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:02:00 - [8] We have been chatting a fair bit over the past week amd I feel very confident in this offering. It was a personal purchase (not through EBANK) and as always there is a risk involved in purchasing. As a direct result of my assistance in making sure his business plan was ok I was allowed first dibs on those shares in which I have purchased the entire first sale (1.75b) worth. This is a very unique offering. Matalino has done a lot of research on this, and even the design of his launch is unique and fairly geared towards the investors. It has to be stressed though as it took me a while to understand, that there will be no dividends for the first 24 weeks of the operation. So anyone looking for a quick return should look elsewhere. I look forward to seeing how this goes, and yes I have seen a far more detailed business plan (can you believe it gets more detailed ) and I strongly advised Matalino not to put that information in his business plan. Frankly I think he has said a tad too much already Anyway, invest on your own merits. There are no securities and Matalino is a fairly young character but I have a good feeling about this so am gonna go ahead. One question Matalino. Are you going to release shareholder's names? There is a nice big debate in play on this forum, and at least thus far it has been determined that one should decide on this factor at IPO launch. It's your call, but either way I will stay invested Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Ricdic One question Matalino. Are you going to release shareholder's names? There is a nice big debate in play on this forum, and at least thus far it has been determined that one should decide on this factor at IPO launch. It's your call, but either way I will stay invested As I have commented in that thread, I don't see alot of value in doing so, especially in a business case such as mine. I can see where businesses, such as ISSO, that have a politial element might need to disclose who their backers are. However, they have equal value in keeping that information secret. I expect that if the practice of disclosing shareholder information becomes common then so will the practice of using multiple portfolio alts, thus defeating the purpose of disclosing shareholder information. In the case of this venture, I would prefer to act on behalf of shareholders in monitoring for potential conflicts of interest among majority shareholders. Shareholders MUST trust me with this venture by its very nature, as there is no other way to secure this venture beyond my goodwill. I hope that by keeping shareholder information private, I can encourage my investors to avoid the practice of using multiple porfolio alts, thus allowing me to look out for the best interests of the entire body of investors. So the short answer is NO, I will not be disclosing shareholder information other than stating how many shares are held by the corp or myself. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:27:00 - [10] Perfectly acceptable answer. Just means I can't show off my epeen as much as I would like too Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Ricdic Perfectly acceptable answer. Just means I can't show off my epeen as much as I would like too I didn't say that I cannot confirm or deny claims of investors ownership, just that I will not initiate the disclosure. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Genbukan Best Buy INC	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Ricdic Perfectly acceptable answer. Just means I can't show off my epeen as much as I would like too Quite the character you are Ricdic!
Bringing Sexyback	Posted - 2007.10.04 04:49:00 - [13] Edited by: Bringing Sexyback on 04/10/2007 04:54:34 Hello Matilino. I sent you isk for 500 shares through my Corp DEEPL, I read your business plan here and decided to invest sending you the isk directly. Afterwards i looked at the sell order forum and found that you mention there to send the isk directly to your corp. I am confident that resolving this will not be an issue but it may be a good idea to include that information here in this forum so others do not make this same mistake. Thanks for your time and good luck in your endevour. *edit, I read the offering again and it is listed in the text. Sorry for the confusion.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.04 05:15:00 - [14] Quote: In that case the dividend for Apr 19 would be 60,00.00 ISK/share. The misplaced comma confused me, but only momentarily. Probably worth fixing though. Quote: If you are going to be selling shares near the end of the project, isn't it better to wait until then to invest? No, if you invest by Oct 13 you will only pay 100K per share. If you wait until Mar 29, you will pay 16M per share. In both cases you will receive an interest payment on Apr 5 based on the share value of 160K. I'm assuming that should read 160k or .16M per share, rather than 16M. Just pointing out a few accidental typos in what looks like an exciting and well-detailed plan, so as to avoid any confusion for other investors. I do have one other question that I'm going to send via eve-mail, so as not to pressure you into divulging information that should remain secret. I've already invested, and will likely make additional investments on each of the next 4 share releases. Even though your past bond offering was small-time when compared to this, your outstanding communication on that has earned you a spot on my A-list of desirable investments. Looking forward to this! Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.04 05:27:00 - [15] Edited by: Shadarle on 04/10/2007 05:28:56 I think this is a very interesting venture. I would be very tempted to invest in this, 4.4% every two weeks is quite a nice payout. But at the moment I am a bit caught up with the shareholders listing. I think you've just encountered the first down side to not listing them. As I am currently going to refuse to invest on those grounds. I may invest in the future, as I really like the idea of the business. But for now I am going to hold to principle. Tho you will likely not have any problem getting your full investment without me, so it probably will have no real impact on you. In any case I'd just be a bag of hot air if I didn't put my money where my mouth is... or rather, not put it in this case. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.04 05:41:00 - [16] Originally by: Shadarle tered the first down side to not listing them. As I am currently going to refuse to invest on those grounds. I may invest in the future, as I really like the idea of the business. But for now I am going to hold to principle. Stop worrying so much Whether he lists them or not, has no bearing on the outcome of this corporation. I am happy to chat with him about an agreement as a director to ensure nothing fancy is happening with shareholders (ie he holding more/less than he should be etc). If you only ever invest in those who list shareholders your investments will be minimal and you will miss out on a lot of good offerings. Frankly, I think the design of this IPO is extremely good, as well as the structured share sales. This is (imo) probably one of the best documented business plans I have seen in a long time, and after seeing the extended one I would buy out the whole thing if I had the isk available (and if he let me, I already asked in other thread ) Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Test Scientist	Posted - 2007.10.04 06:34:00 - [17] Edited by: Test Scientist on 04/10/2007 06:34:32
Benvie	Posted - 2007.10.04 06:35:00 - [18] Edited by: Benvie on 04/10/2007 06:35:14 Originally by: Ricdic I would buy out the whole thing if I had the isk available (and if he let me, I already asked in other thread ) Don't be greedy! Let the rest of us have a bite.
Ambo 2nd Outcasters	Posted - 2007.10.04 08:18:00 - [19] Sounds like a great plan, sadly, my isk is pretty much all tied up at the moment so I'll have to wait for one of the later batches. Good luck
Trading Bunnz ElArms International	Posted - 2007.10.04 09:21:00 - [20] I assume the "Board of Directors" has access to your shareholder registry?
Firid Soulbane Empyreum	Posted - 2007.10.04 10:36:00 - [21] Some questions from a potential investor. You are gonna mange 24 accounts and 72 characters on your own? What about standings? Are you gonna manage all those accounts on your own or is there someone else helping out? How do you plan on skilling up the characters to maximize datacore yield? Not just in the end but in the early days as well? Say you spend 8 weeks of skilling on each character during the first 24 week phase. How many datacores will such a character get? Why wont you disclose any numbers (profit prediction/datacore yield)? I mean all the numbers should be available out there to the common man if he did the research. I understand if you have some trick to optimize your profits/and or datacore yield up your sleeve that wont disclose. But you should be able to give potential investors at least some general numbers on profit returns. I mean its a great idea and all and it certainly has profit potential but how can i know you have done the homework? Granted you have laid it all out for the board of directors and they approve but from an investors point of view you promise us 8% return but not so many details on the viability of datacore profit versus GTC expenses. What happens if managing all these accounts proves to be too big a task for you and you have to disolve the company before the plan comes to fruition? In case you do have to close the company will you be selling all the characters (and pay for the transaction fees) to try to repay at least part of the investors investments? Sorry if some of my questions are covered in the above. Originally by: CCP Oneiromancer Saltire - I can understand one accidental podkilling, even two, but twelve....?
Amaldor Themodius	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:56:00 - [22] Does the option to sell shares back to company exist..ie buy back during that first 24 week dividendless period?? And i am keen to understand if you have done anything like this successfully before?
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.04 12:58:00 - [23] Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 04/10/2007 13:01:37 this sounds pretty good, but i'm not going to race people to try to buy some shares. not when you have people that routinely go and pretty much buyout ipos. gl to those that get them. edited: if you want to go that route, why make a public offering? just talk to 2 or 3 people and let them buy you out. sorry, just one of my pet peeves, when people have no limits initially, on share per person, and they get bought up before others get into it. or before X number of people can get into it. like i said, one of MY pet peeves. especially when the plan was announced, with the "first batch" of shares already sold to one person.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd Edited by: Ezoran DuBlaidd on 04/10/2007 13:01:37 this sounds pretty good, but i'm not going to race people to try to buy some shares. not when you have people that routinely go and pretty much buyout ipos. gl to those that get them. edited: if you want to go that route, why make a public offering? just talk to 2 or 3 people and let them buy you out. sorry, just one of my pet peeves, when people have no limits initially, on share per person, and they get bought up before others get into it. or before X number of people can get into it. like i said, one of MY pet peeves. especially when the plan was announced, with the "first batch" of shares already sold to one person. Because in a game with relative anonymity it doesn't really matter if you say only X shares per person because they can just go log on an alt and send more isk. Its just making people jump through hoops needlessly. On a more related note, I saw this when it went up last night. I have to say I'm more impressed then I have been with other recent IPO's. <sig> Tired of the inane ramblings of the incompetent? Click here </sig>
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:16:00 - [25] Originally by: Dr Slurm Because in a game with relative anonymity it doesn't really matter if you say only X shares per person because they can just go log on an alt and send more isk. Its just making people jump through hoops needlessly. On a more related note, I saw this when it went up last night. I have to say I'm more impressed then I have been with other recent IPO's. say 15,000 shares, 250-1,000 limit to person (based upon it being 15,000 being released) you now have a pool of 15-60 different toons that are capable of purchasing. "please state how many you want in this thread". so, i'm sure someone will post on all 3 alts, then log onto another account and repeat. but, i'm willing to bet, that a few other people will also be able to get in on that deal. dontcha think, maybe, just maybe? it is a pet peeve with me and it shall remain that way. saying "oh well people can get around it" doesn't change that it's easily made to where a LOT more people CAN get into it. hell, i came up with a way with all of 30 seconds of thought into it, and i'm stupid.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.04 13:47:00 - [26] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: Shadarle tered the first down side to not listing them. As I am currently going to refuse to invest on those grounds. I may invest in the future, as I really like the idea of the business. But for now I am going to hold to principle. Stop worrying so much Whether he lists them or not, has no bearing on the outcome of this corporation. I am happy to chat with him about an agreement as a director to ensure nothing fancy is happening with shareholders (ie he holding more/less than he should be etc). If you only ever invest in those who list shareholders your investments will be minimal and you will miss out on a lot of good offerings. Frankly, I think the design of this IPO is extremely good, as well as the structured share sales. This is (imo) probably one of the best documented business plans I have seen in a long time, and after seeing the extended one I would buy out the whole thing if I had the isk available (and if he let me, I already asked in other thread ) Well, see... I am not worrying about anything. I simply think it would be good for the overall player run business side of EVE if names were released. Thus I am putting my money where my mouth is. And, unlike you, I do not have all my money tied up. I could buy this out if I wanted to / if he allowed it. I wouldn't quite go that far, because he hasn't proven himself that trustworthy to me yet. But I would definitely make a substantial investment. I just want people to realize that there is in fact a downside to keeping names secret now. Perhaps I'm the only one who will back up my beliefs with action and I'm sure there will be no problem filling this one despite my lack of funding. As to missing out on a lot of good offerings, perhaps. But 4.4% per 2 weeks (starting in 24 weeks) is a lower percentage than I make myself, so I'm not really missing out. I invest to help drive the player driven market, that's the main reason. If I make a profit from it at the same time then great. The only exceptions to this are Ionia's bonds, those are supplemental income for me when I have some spare money that I can't find any use for. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:09:00 - [27] Originally by: Firid Soulbane You are gonna mange 24 accounts and 72 characters on your own? What about standings? This was my first concern as well. In regards to standings he has some smart ideas that will work (has already been tested) I will let him explain it if he wants too but that kinda opens things up for people to know everything. Quote: Are you gonna manage all those accounts on your own or is there someone else helping out? Lonesome, sharing accounts is against the EULA! Quote: How do you plan on skilling up the characters to maximize datacore yield? Not just in the end but in the early days as well? Say you spend 8 weeks of skilling on each character during the first 24 week phase. How many datacores will such a character get? This is all in the detailed business plan in a looota detail Quote: Why wont you disclose any numbers (profit prediction/datacore yield)? I mean all the numbers should be available out there to the common man if he did the research. I can assure you that if people see how he does it, his market will be swarmed with others diving in, GTC prices may rise, and datacore prices will fall. Would mean risking hardcore failure. Quote: from an investors point of view you promise us 8% return but not so many details on the viability of datacore profit versus GTC expenses. Always going to be an issue but I have strongly advised him against releasing these figures. Hexxx is a business analyst in real life so I would recommend him as one of the other directors, and possibly a skeptic as the third. If you don't trust the OP, or my business sense (well, both) then don't invest. Obviously I am not guaraneeing it, but it can definetly work and in my opinion is better than almost any other IPO I have seen released. Haven't read down yet, knowing my luck he has already answered these Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:13:00 - [28] this sounds pretty good, but i'm not going to race people to try to buy some shares. not when you have people that routinely go and pretty much buyout ipos. gl to those that get them. edited: if you want to go that route, why make a public offering? just talk to 2 or 3 people and let them buy you out. Assuming you are talking about my purchase, it was a condition of release due to my assistance in helping him get everything organised. Nothing has been reserved in any way beyond what has been clearly documented in the business plan. Quote: sorry, just one of my pet peeves, when people have no limits initially, on share per person, and they get bought up before others get into it. or before X number of people can get into it. There will be plenty of other shares available, or I can sell you 50 @ 10% above cost if you want. Quote: like i said, one of MY pet peeves. especially when the plan was announced, with the "first batch" of shares already sold to one person. Imposed Condition. Better to advise the public of it, than me automatically put my post in the second he makes it. This was pre-determined a few days back after we were comfortable with everything in the business plan. If you want the chance to get in early on upcoming IPO's you are free to offer advice and assistance It is actually quite rewarding and definetly not just in a financial sense. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
SexxxSlave	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:29:00 - [29] is this open for purchase RIGHT NOW? if so, i'd like to throw 500mil into it.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:30:00 - [30] Originally by: Ricdic Lonesome, sharing accounts is against the EULA! You need to check that again. Ask me about Secured ISK Loans from the BMBE.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.04 14:43:00 - [31] Originally by: Ray McCormack Originally by: Ricdic Lonesome, sharing accounts is against the EULA! You need to check that again. Ok, sharing accounts with anyone but your kids is against the EULA Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:15:00 - [32] Sorry for the delay in replying to everyones questions. The announcement was made just after everything was setup and ready to go, but only a few hours before I needed to go to bed. Looks like Ricdic handled most of the questions while I was typing, but I will still post all of my answers anyways. Bringing Sexyback, I am at work right now, when I get home I will return your ISK. For accounting reasons I will require you to resend the ISK to the corp. I have also attempted to make those instructions stand out a bit better so that others can see them. If anyone knows what the tag is to increase font size let me know. Kitex, thanks for pointing out those typos. They have been corrected. They were caused by my changing the share size from 10M to 100K at the last minute to allow more flexibilty for buyers in the later phases. I will have a look at your question when I get home, and answer it if I can. Obviously some information needs to be kept quite and I appreaciate your discression in this area. Shadarle, I am sorry to hear that you will not be investing. As Ricdic has already pointed out, who holds the shares is ultimately irrelevant to the success or failure of this venture. Ultimately the success of this venture is dependent on my integrity, and to a much lesser extent the future of the Datacore market. I have stated my reasons for this desion, and I believe that those reasons are sound. I would like to know what the downside of keeping the shareholder information secret is, asside from you not investing based on the principle. If you have a specific concern regarding shareholder composision, I would be happy to discuss that concern with you in private. If you are able to raise a valid concern I would concider changing my policy after informing shareholders and giving them time to adjust their portfolio holding habits. However, I expect that any advantage would be vioded by the expected use of portfolio alts. As stated in my reasoning, this practice might be important for some ventures, but I do not see any avantage gained in this case. I would ask that if you wish to discuss this policy further that you do so either in private with myself or in the thread orginally created for that topic so as to not derail this thread. Trading Bunnz, while the list of shareholders would not be a part of my normal reporting to them, I will provide the Board of Directors with whatever information they request, including the list of shareholders. I expect that the Board of Directors will keep that information confidecial. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:16:00 - [33] Firid Soulbane, As I stated in the Q&A section, I cannot disclose how the standings will be obtained, beyond saying that a plan is in place. This plan has been reveiled to Ricdic (he asked the same question) as a Member of the Board of Directors. I am sure that he will back me when I say that it will not be a problem, but we cannot say more than that. As for Datacore yields, these too have been very carefully projected. The yields during the first 24 weeks have not been calculated because they will vary greatly depending on the exact order in which the skills are trained. The yields during this time are too small to be worth calculating. The yields expected after week 20 have been calaculated to several decemil places and are known to the Board of Directors. Originally by: Firid Soulbane I mean all the numbers should be available out there to the common man if he did the research. You are exactly correct in that statement. The only thing that you are missing is that the common man won't do the research. The entire value of this operation is in the fact that I have done the research very carefully. If I were to disclose that research, there would be nothing left for you to invest in. As it is, I have problably said too much. As for managing the characters, the most painful part will be the first month or so while the short skills are trained. Once I get into the longer training times it will be little to now work to keep things moving along on target. As I have tried to explain in answer to your earlier question, the logistics for getting the standings is already in place and will not put undue pressure on me. There is no possiblity to sell the characters at the end of this venture. As such there is already a couple of plans for paying out the prinicple cost of the shares, the simplest is already set forth in this outline: buying back share value through bonus dividends. Nearer to the end of the 24 week growth period I will present some options to shareholder to see what their prefered rate and means of closure will be. Should I die or otherwise be suddenly unable to play Eve, there is no way to pay out investors. However, that is a constant risk with any venture, and I do not believe that it will be an issue. Amaldor Themodius, that is one of the possiblities that I have concidered. There is also the possiblity of players trading these shares among themselves. As this venture matures I am confident that the value will only increase. All of my projections have been made on worst case scenarios, so if anything share value is under- not over- rated. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:16:00 - [34] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd why make a public offering? just talk to 2 or 3 people and let them buy you out. This venture is dependent on a staggered fund raising model. If those 2 or 3 people buy out the first few phases then drop out in the last few, it would limit credibilty to then come to the public to raise funds for the remaining phases. Further, this project has potential to expand at whatever rate that the public is willing to finance and that I am able to manage the characters. There is much more potential for success by taking this to the public. As for Ricdic's purchase of the first phase, I felt that I needed to bring in someone independent to verify the detials of my business plan as I cannot disclose it to the public. When he saw how good it was, I was not suprised that he want to invest heavily. The size of the first phase was fixed by the costs of creating the characters, there was no room to make it larger to allow more investors. We could have released it to the public, but it would have been pointless because as soon as he say the post he would have bought the entire thing just the same. I couldn't very well refuse to accept his investment after he has taken the time to review the plan and provide feedback and offer to stand as a witness to its viability. So we dicided to proceed as we have. As Dr Slurm, had I limited Ricdic to a set number of shares, he could, as could anyone else, buy up all the shares that he wanted using alts. It is because of this arms-race of alt usage that I have decided not to limit shareholder percentages nor disclose shareholder information. SexxxSlave, yes shares are available (I think, I haven't checked to see if they have sold out) if you send the ISK directly to [DATAC] Datacore Harvesting I will send you the shares are soon as I get home work(if I have some how managed to sell out by then your ISK will be returned). Shares will be sent based on the order the ISK is received by Datacore Harvesting so it is best to send the ISK now rather than waiting until I am online. (possibly one case exception for Bringing Sexyback so that she can resend the her ISK to the correct place) I will update this thread and the corp discription as soon as I have sent the last of the shares so that everyone knows if shares are available. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Krazy Bitsch	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:25:00 - [35] Originally by: Matalino Business Operations 72 characters will be created on those accounts and their only training will be to maximize Datacore yields. Maybe im missing something, but ummm what? You can only train one char at a time on an account. Are you saying that youre going to train one char up and then another and then another? Thats a waste of time....
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 15:32:00 - [36] Originally by: Krazy Bitsch Maybe im missing something, but ummm what? You can only train one char at a time on an account. Are you saying that youre going to train one char up and then another and then another? Thats a waste of time.... It would be if it wasn't carefully planned out. But yes, all three characters will be trained and it is worth it due to their high level of specialization and the careful planning that went into their creation. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Aerpe Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.10.04 16:42:00 - [37] Edited by: Aerpe on 04/10/2007 16:44:16 Edited by: Aerpe on 04/10/2007 16:42:48 24 accounts, anyone actually paying for that many accounts? Ok if it's GTC for isk but to actually pay the entry fee? 478,80Ç, dang. That's more than half my rent.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 16:56:00 - [38] Edited by: Matalino on 04/10/2007 17:00:45 Originally by: Aerpe 24 accounts, anyone actually paying for that many accounts? Ok if it's GTC for isk but to actually pay the entry fee? 478,80Ç, dang. That's more than half my rent. Secure GTC trade 101 - Updated Originally by: GM Nova Q) Can a trial account use this service? A) Yes, all you need to do is make sure the character has the required isk. You then log into the account management page to complete the trade. You can activate an account using a GTC which is the plan and is our biggest startup cost and the primary use for this second wave of shares. There is no way that I would be doing this if I needed to activate those accounts with cash, that would almost be my entire rent. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Rysith	Posted - 2007.10.04 17:13:00 - [39] I would like to purchase 1500 shares (156M worth at 104K each, if my math is correct). I can't get into Eve at the moment, but I will send the money as soon as I can.
Aerpe Minmatar Es and Whizz Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2007.10.04 17:33:00 - [40] Originally by: Matalino Edited by: Matalino on 04/10/2007 17:00:45 Originally by: Aerpe 24 accounts, anyone actually paying for that many accounts? Ok if it's GTC for isk but to actually pay the entry fee? 478,80Ç, dang. That's more than half my rent. Secure GTC trade 101 - Updated Originally by: GM Nova Q) Can a trial account use this service? A) Yes, all you need to do is make sure the character has the required isk. You then log into the account management page to complete the trade. You can activate an account using a GTC which is the plan and is our biggest startup cost and the primary use for this second wave of shares. There is no way that I would be doing this if I needed to activate those accounts with cash, that would almost be my entire rent. Ah I see, you're not entirely insane after all :) Good luck with your venture.
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.04 17:45:00 - [41] Rev 3 should be out this year, correct? nov/dec-ish? wonder what the changes in rev 3 will have on this long-term plan. i mean, datacores dropped from millions to hundreds of thousands apiece. if people have a reason to start cashing in (i.e. lvl 5 researchers available vice lvl 4 and LOTS of rp on those lvl 4s); it could cause a larger dive, much larger. or, what if the number of RPs per datacore drops again? maybe i missed the part of speculation on what rev 3 will bring. i did notice the part of "anticipated worst case and gtc 240m and prices drop to half jita (300k instead of 600k) on datacores.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.10.04 17:59:00 - [42] The speculation is that datacore prices will rise I believe and rise substantially in certain areas. At least that is the impression I've gotten from some inventors I've talked to. Which makes me think this is an extremely profitable venture. Though I am curious why the price of a 30 day GTC was listed when a 90 day would be far more profitable. And it's quite clear how this would work, it was already discussed in another thread. You make 10 new accounts for example. You start training up 10 chars, grinding their faction in gangs. Once they have reached the required standing level you switch to new characters, etc until all 3 characters have the correct standing. You then finish the first character off skill-wise so he can use level 3 or 4 RP agents and then you move on to skilling the 2nd char, then the 3rd. Though you'd start making decent RP returns as soon as those first chars hit level 3/4 agents, so I don't know why it takes till week 24 to get decent returns. Anyhow, this is not too complicated for anyone to do. I just don't have the time/patience to set up a completely new set of accounts and grind their standing up an then collect the datacores every month or whatever. But a venture like this will help to keep prices down, thats for sure. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.10.04 18:00:00 - [43] good information. thanks.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 18:33:00 - [44] Edited by: Matalino on 04/10/2007 18:37:05 Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd wonder what the changes in rev 3 will have on this long-term plan. There are too many ways that the nerf bat can be swung to predict and plan for them all. The best that I can do is allow for a large general margin of error and hope for the best. In this case the margin of error is more than 2:1, so I feel quite safe with promising the returns that I have. Originally by: Shadarle The speculation is that datacore prices will rise I believe and rise substantially in certain areas. At least that is the impression I've gotten from some inventors I've talked to. Which makes me think this is an extremely profitable venture. I agree with this speculation. If any of the new ship classes us Mech or Mole Datacores then I expect to be able to make my investors very happy. Originally by: Shadarle Anyhow, this is not too complicated for anyone to do. I just don't have the time/patience to set up a completely new set of accounts and grind their standing up an then collect the datacores every month or whatever. Which is exactly why I can't reveal anything more about my business plan than I already have. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Bringing Sexyback	Posted - 2007.10.04 20:44:00 - [45] Thanks for addressing my error Matalino. I am currently at work but will tranfer the isk to your corp as soon as i get home this evening.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 22:02:00 - [46] Edited by: Matalino on 04/10/2007 22:02:28 I just checked the corp's wallet balance through the API. It now reads 5,548,400,000. There were only 4,836,000,000 ISK in shares available. So that means that we have sold out. I really wasn't needing to sell out until Oct 20. Obviously this went much faster than even I had thought. Not even 24 hours. Please do not send any more ISK as no more orders are been accepted at this time. When I get home at approx 23:00 - 24:00 Eve Time, I will process the orders, and return the excess ISK. Thank you for your interest in this venture. I will announce when the third wave of shares will be available, but for now I am not accepting any pre-orders that far in advance. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Genbukan Best Buy INC	Posted - 2007.10.04 23:12:00 - [47] Matalino, when do you plan on being online in game?
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.04 23:16:00 - [48] I am online and in-game now. Currently I am working replying to my EveMail and processing the orders. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Genbukan Best Buy INC	Posted - 2007.10.05 00:02:00 - [49] Shares received thank you.
Digital Nightfall	Posted - 2007.10.05 00:12:00 - [50] Received shares, thanks
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.05 00:57:00 - [51] Edited by: Matalino on 05/10/2007 00:58:22 Almost everyone should have either their shares or their money right now. There are a couple of people who have not received part of their money or shares because I am still waiting to straiten things out with Bringing Sexyback regarding the misdirected ISK. Those people have been notified and the issue will be resolved one why or another within 24 hours. I am amazed at how quickly this offer has been bought up. Even knowing how good of an offer it really is, I am still suprised that it was completely sold out in less than 24 hours. If this demand is even approximated in the future releases (and I expect that as people read the on going reports that it will) I would like to formulate a policy to handle it effectively. Right now, I am going to get some dinner, and collect my thoughts. When I come back I am going to post some suggestions for that policy and seek some feedback from the community. No need to post those ideas in this thread right now. I was hoping to keep this thread for those who have questions regarding the business and financing, so I will start a new thread for that topic. But first, I need fooooooooooood...... ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.05 03:00:00 - [52] It will be a couple weeks before I release the next block of shares, but when I do so, I would like everyone to get a fair chance to buy in. As such I am proposing a method for doing so. If you have any suggestions or input on how this will be done I would be gratefull for you input over in that thread. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Pandora Shadow	Posted - 2007.10.05 10:41:00 - [53] ill buy one share, ill be on in 8-10 hours =0
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.05 14:15:00 - [54] Originally by: Pandora Shadow ill buy one share, ill be on in 8-10 hours =0 Sorry, but we are currently sold-out. If you keep an eye on this thread, I will release another batch of shares in approx 2 weeks. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Rasta Farian Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2007.10.06 01:22:00 - [55] When an account is innactive does it keep generating RP?
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.06 01:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Rasta Farian When an account is innactive does it keep generating RP? Yes Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Sir Scorpion Black Banners	Posted - 2007.10.07 07:27:00 - [57] Matalino Contact me in game I might have something interesting to offer you Thanks
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus	Posted - 2007.10.08 20:10:00 - [58] current investor of the Ki Tech bond and very happy and would like to invest in this opportunity as well. Couple questions though..... What is left for shares? and are we in batch one or batch two now? your faq says you can buyy batch 1 until oct 13 but later it says that batch two starts selling on the 8th....Hopefully that means I can get in on the 100K shares. Let me know so I can send isk.
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus	Posted - 2007.10.08 20:16:00 - [59] never mind...i should have read further down the post... another one of the race for shares investing events...that is on MY pet peeves as well and will not invest in the future in this because of that. Again the rich get richer and the rest of us get to watch.
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus	Posted - 2007.10.08 20:20:00 - [60] and if all the first batch of shares are getting bought prior to the announcement, why even say there is a first batch at x isk jsut so you can tell people that oh those are all gone, you need to pay more. "I'm sorry, that will be an extra 40mil. you can send it to me at teh following account."
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.08 21:41:00 - [61] Originally by: Atherin Gaius another one of the race for shares investing events...that is on MY pet peeves as well and will not invest in the future in this because of that. Agreed. I tried coming up with a way to avoid that mad race, but the response that I got was negative. If you have an idea on how to avoid the race with each new batch, or would like to show support for my original idea, please post in that thread. If there is sufficient support to do something about the race, I will adjust my policy in that area. For now I don't see any viable option but to hold a race. At least with the future events people will get a better idea of when the batch will be released. Originally by: Atherin Gaius and if all the first batch of shares are getting bought prior to the announcement, why even say there is a first batch at x isk just so you can tell people that oh those are all gone, you need to pay more. "I'm sorry, that will be an extra 40mil. you can send it to me at the following account." The number and size of batches is set based on the business plan. Basically it comes down to not paying interest on ISK until it is needed. As such people who bought into the second batch are not earning any returns until share price increases for Nov 03. Basically it cost them a month's interest to jump in as early as they did. As for Ricdic's purchase of the first batch: he knew the details of the IPO before it was released because he had volunteered to act as in independent third party to very the details of the business plan that could not be released to the public. Because of this foreknowledge, he could have bought up the first wave while everyone was still reading the IPO statement. During our conversation regarding the IPO he had stated his intention to buy up the entire first wave, so to make the launch clean and simple, I offered to simply sell the first wave directly to him. The way things unfolded, he did not have quite enough capital on hand to complete the buy out when I was finally ready to launch at 02:00. As a favor, for helping with the original planning, and to avoid having the entire first wave gone within minutes, I gave him a couple hours to raise the cash needed. It took him just hour and half to liquidate the assets needed for him to purchases the entire first wave. Ricdic did not get any better of a deal than what would have been offered to the public. The intention to release the shares as I have was set before Ricdic offered to buy a single share. Had he not been able to liquidate his assets in a timely manner those shares would have been released to the public. As it was it was a choice between offering them to the public and having him buy them out, or simply announcing his buy out as part of the original post. The later seemed to be the better choice. Looking at how fast the money came in for the second wave, the first batch would have sold out within that hour and a half that I wait for Ricdic anyways. At least this way people got 16.5 hours to buy in. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.08 21:41:00 - [62] Now for a quick status update: The characters have all been created. Currently they are plowing through their learning skills. I am still waiting to see how the actual costs of a few things compares to what I have budgeted for them. Depending on what how much more ISK I need for the first half of November, I will be releasing 10,000 - 15,000 @ 108,160 ISK more shares as outlined in the original post. I will not be taking any orders for that batch until I know exactly how many shares I will be releasing. I expect to make that announcement on either Oct 24 or 25. Unless there is more demand to do something else, they will be released in the same way as this last batch. Any ISK sent before the public announcement will be returned to the sender. Until the announcement of that share sale, I do not expect to make any official status updates, as there really won't be anything to say other than confirming that training is still going. The announcement of that batch release will also include a status update. I will still monitor to the forums to respond to questions. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Amicus Pauperi ASGARD SECURITY SHIPPING PRODUCTION SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.09 00:59:00 - [63] Hello Matalino, I'd like to begin by congratulating you on a successful start to your IPO. Novel business ideas are rare and it's refreshing to see the creative waters still churning amongst the players here. You've done a wonderful job responding intelligently and patiently to all the questions put forth, so if you're scamming the community at least you're doing it with a brain backing it up. For some reason, I'd be ok with losing ISK knowing that. However, whether it be the large commitment put forth by Ridic or the elegant simplicity to your venture, there hasn't been as much vetting as normally seems to occur with IPOs. Therefore, I have a number of questions that I hope you won't mind entertaining: Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but the Board of Directors is simply an oversight group. Members of the Board are not vouching for your trustworthiness, or guaranteeing that you are not a scam. Ridic's status as a Board member, his 1.75B investment, and posts defending the corp muddled that point a bit until I re-read everything a couple times through. Just want to be absolutely certain. Also, will the Board also be doing audits of the books? If you can guarantee 8% monthly returns even if prices get quartered and GTCs rise 33%, I imagine there will be a lot more profit than what is paid out in dividends. You stated that it will be "paid out through increased stock value" initially. Fine and dandy. What does that mean realistically? Billions of ISK will sit idle in the corp wallet? Will the extra be used to expand the number of characters? Expand into different datacores? Expand into different markets? Trading? This leads to the next question: Will the Board have any power in the decision making process? The Board will be comprised fully of shareholders and in the interest of full disclosure, will their names and share number be released? If a majority of the company is owned by board members and they have decision making powers, I would like to know who else is in control of my cash, and how much they stand to make from their decisions. Ridic answered that RP accumulates with an inactive account. I can't find anything from CCP on this issue, one way or the other but I can't imagine they'll let it go on forever. You stated that you'll be buying 30 day GTCs, not 90 which are much more cost effective. The next logical jump would be that you'll be using this RP loophole and use GTCs to simply "harvest" the datacores. Will the profitability of the company be impacted if CCP changes this mechanic? As has been discussed in this forum, eventually GTC prices will be tied to datacores. This is the first major public attempt that I know of to do this. One can theorize that your attemps will be matched by others down the road until all profitability is gone. What will become of the corp when that day arrives? And I must say, the recent spike in Mech Eng datacores must be a nice bonus Also, for investors interested in Ki Tech's previous bond, here it is: [url=http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=585611]Ki Tech Industries Open-Ended Bond Offering[/url] And for epeen fun... will this IPO be one of the largest public launches in EvE? Doing great so far; look forward to hearing from you! -AP Economic PvP - Cornering Jita 4-4
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.09 02:03:00 - [64] Some great questions mate, I will answer a few of those concerning my involvement Originally by: Amicus Pauperi However, whether it be the large commitment put forth by Ridic or the elegant simplicity to your venture, there hasn't been as much vetting as normally seems to occur with IPOs. I would like to hope this is directly related to the merits on the business plan as well as Matalino's achievements with his prior corporation and not simply because I invested. Quote: Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but the Board of Directors is simply an oversight group. Members of the Board are not vouching for your trustworthiness, or guaranteeing that you are not a scam. Ridic's status as a Board member, his 1.75B investment, and posts defending the corp muddled that point a bit until I re-read everything a couple times through. This is correct, as a director I have no ability to prevent a scam in any way, but my vested interest means a loss for myself in the event that he does scam. I was working with Matalino for a week or so prior to his launch making sure everything was ok with the business plan etc. Frankly there wasn't a whole lot that needed changing as it was already heavily detailed. I think my main request for him, was to put a simple summary in there for those of us who don't understand all the big words . Whilst it hasn't been completely discussed yet, as a board member I would like to think I can influence his decisions on changes etc or point him in the right direction if I feel things aren't being done as efficiently as they should. I don't believe there is any other director at this point. Quote: Just want to be absolutely certain. Also, will the Board also be doing audits of the books? I wouldn't be against this, but will let Matalino respond. Quote: If you can guarantee 8% monthly returns even if prices get quartered and GTCs rise 33%, I imagine there will be a lot more profit than what is paid out in dividends. You stated that it will be "paid out through increased stock value" initially. Fine and dandy. What does that mean realistically? Billions of ISK will sit idle in the corp wallet? Excellent question. We have mostly considered worst case scenario in this IPO and totally missed the "Best case scenario" likely outcome. Quote: will their (board) names and share number be released? I personally don't have a problem with this Quote: If a majority of the company is owned by board members and they have decision making powers, I would like to know who else is in control of my cash, and how much they stand to make from their decisions. My ownership will stay at around this point (10% or so) Quote: Ridic answered that RP accumulates with an inactive account. I can't find anything from CCP on this issue It has been that way since the dawn of R&D. People always had increased RP regardless of inactivity. Much like skill training (except obviously that finishes upon skill completion). Quote: I can't imagine they'll let it go on forever. Possibly not, but they have for the last 4+ years. Quote: The next logical jump would be that you'll be using this RP loophole and use GTCs to simply "harvest" the datacores. I have spoken with Matalino about this, and considering increasing the quality of those characters to allow higher level RP gains and the likes off higher level agents. Obviously it is a feat with so many characters but he has 12 months to play with and it always increases profit potential so we shall see. Quote: And I must say, the recent spike in Mech Eng datacores must be a nice bonus Now you know why he started the operation. The impending release of Rev3 can only take those datacores one way. Quote: And for epeen fun... will this IPO be one of the largest public launches in EvE? Well it's only 20-30b. His initial prospectus was to choose between 2. Either a 25b one, or a 50b one. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.09 02:04:00 - [65] I recommended that he do the 25b one as I felt people (including myself) would be more comfortable with this rather than such a large increase off KTI. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.09 05:34:00 - [66] Originally by: Amicus Pauperi Therefore, I have a number of questions that I hope you won't mind entertaining: I am always happy to answer questions. It looks Ricdic has already fielded most of the questions, but I will still post my answers for the sake of completeness. Originally by: Amicus Pauperi Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but the Board of Directors is simply an oversight group. Members of the Board are not vouching for your trustworthiness, or guaranteeing that you are not a scam. Ridic's status as a Board member, his 1.75B investment, and posts defending the corp muddled that point a bit until I re-read everything a couple times through. Just want to be absolutely certain. Also, will the Board also be doing audits of the books? As Ricdic has said, he has no way of preventing a scam. There is no way to prevent against a scam due to the nature of the business. While Ricdic does not know me outside of the game, Ricdic does have my real name and contact info, as would future Members of the Board. While CCP's policies do not allow any out-of-game repercussions for in-game actions, my real name would be tainted by any scam that I pull with this venture. I have no intention of soiling my name in real life over imaginary money. Regarding the Board Members ability to audit the corp, I will provide them with any information that they request (within the EULA: so no usernames/passwords) so they will have the complete ability to audit, both from the summaries that I provide and by verifying it through the API key if they choose. Because they have such free access to information, additional members of the board will be carefully selected. Originally by: Amicus Pauperi If you can guarantee 8% monthly returns even if prices get quartered and GTCs rise 33%, I imagine there will be a lot more profit than what is paid out in dividends. You stated that it will be "paid out through increased stock value" initially. Fine and dandy. What does that mean realistically? Billions of ISK will sit idle in the corp wallet? Will the extra be used to expand the number of characters? Expand into different datacores? Expand into different markets? Trading? The focus of the financing scheme has been on the worst case scenario. Under the current financing scheme, officially any profit beyond the promised returns are technically my salary in that the excess funds will be used to buy the company back into my private ownership. Because there is no way to transfer opperations of this venture to anyone else, a privatiation scheme much be set in place so that investors can receive their full promised returns. Should datacore prices remain high, thus allowing us to exceed our revenue targets, I, with the assistance of the Board, will look at some options for sharing that added wealth with investors. As for expansion options, I am working on a few scenarios for expanding our datacore harvesting potential. A primary limiting factor is the amount of trust that people can place in me. Would the community trust me with a revenue stream equivalant to that generated by a NAV of 50 or 100 billion ISK? At the time of this launch, under Ricdic's direction I have limited it to 25 billion. I will review that decision with Ricdic in a month or two and we may propose a vote to investors regarding an option to expand. As for expanding in to other fields. I have thought of some possiblities there as well. However, for now I do not wish to lose focus on the original business plan. If I do expand into another field, I expect that I would do so under a different IPO, that way investors choosen area of risk remains constant. For example, I do not think it fair to expose investors who signed in for the steady returns of Datacore Harvesting to in potentially volitile risks of investion. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.09 05:38:00 - [67] Originally by: Amicus Pauperi This leads to the next question: Will the Board have any power in the decision making process? The Board will be comprised fully of shareholders and in the interest of full disclosure, will their names and share number be released? If a majority of the company is owned by board members and they have decision making powers, I would like to know who else is in control of my cash, and how much they stand to make from their decisions. The Board will have input in any major decision making. They basically act as consultants to vet ideas before the final presentation to the public. Some minor details I will handle independantly, such as the discussion threads I started regarding possible means of fair distribution of the shares. Any plans for expansion or devation from the business plan will be vetted through them before public presentation. The results of our collaberation would then be taken to the entire group of investors for their deciding vote. As for disclosing the size of Board Member's stake in the corporation, my choosen privacy policy does not allow me to unillaterally disclose that information. However, I will encourage Board Members to disclose the size of there holdings to anyone who inquires, and I will confirm if the numbers that they report are accurate. I feel that this is the best policy as it removes any pressure from Board Members to be dishonest in the size of their holding by using alts. Either they disclose the size of their holdings or the choose to keep that information private. If they wish to keep it secret using alts, then there is nothing that I or anyone else can do to force them to disclose the true size of their holdings, so why pretend that it is otherwise. As for Ricdic's initial purchase of shares, it was 17,500 units, or which is 27.3% of the shares that have been released to date and 7.3% of the total shares that exist. Originally by: Amicus Pauperi Ridic answered that RP accumulates with an inactive account. Will the profitability of the company be impacted if CCP changes this mechanic? While I will not go into more details on how exactly we are using this "loophole", if it were to be closed, its impact on our opperating costs would be in line with projected worst case for an increase in GTC prices. As such, this nerf would not affect our promised returns, and should require no adjustments to the business plan unless it hit in combination with extremely low datacore prices. As Ricdic pointed out, RP collection has opperated this way since the begining. I do not expect it to change, especially when there is such a high demand for datacores. Should we be hit by the nerf bat, either in this way or another, then we will adapt as best as possible. If adaption requires adjustments to promised returns, then such actions would be taken in consultation with the Board of Directors. There are many ways that the nerf bat can be swung. However, CCP tends to have a hands off approach until there is a deperate need to make a balancing adjustment. I do not expect them to nerf datacore production until it has lost so much of its profitablity that it would no longer be worth doing anyways. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.09 05:40:00 - [68] Originally by: Amicus Pauperi One can theorize that your attemps will be matched by others down the road until all profitability is gone. What will become of the corp when that day arrives? Firstly, I have worked out the production to a high degree of efficiency. Most of the assumed models for bulk datacore harvesting do not yield as high of returns as I have found possible. However, adventually people will find the same methods that I have, my hope is that the market will not collapse to the presure of compitation at this high level of effiecency for 6 to 12 months. If we are able to remain ahead of the competition curve for that time, I will have been able to raise sufficient ISK to return the corp to private ownership before it loses its profitability. This is another key reason for the need to establish a finite life span for the venture. Almost every venture will adventually lose profitablity due to compitition. Originally by: Amicus Pauperi And I must say, the recent spike in Mech Eng datacores must be a nice bonus I am very happy to see the spike in Mech Eng datacore prices. However, that is not because of this venture. Unless this spike holds out for another two months, which it might, it will have no direct impact on the returns of the IPO. I am happy because my private operations in Ki Tech already have sizable Mech Eng datacore yields. I did a little happy dance this morning when I put up a sell order for a few hundred units. Originally by: Amicus Pauperi And for epeen fun... will this IPO be one of the largest public launches in EvE? I think that I am still a LONG way from the biggest. But it is the "epeen fun" as you put it that would be the motivation for sharing excess profits. If I can't have the biggest IPO, I can aim to have the best IPO. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.09 05:54:00 - [69] Good answers. I would say the spike in Mechanical Engineering datacores is currently attributed to speculation on the new ships in Rev3. I can admit I may be partially responsible for this spike, but there are plenty of others capitalising on this at the moment. I believe the market price will continue to rise as more and more people try to capitalise, and most will be holding their datacores waiting for Rev3 to hit. Some others will sell shortly before Rev3 as prices at that point may be high enough to bail out before the market is flooded with them (bringing the price back down). Rev3 will show a fairly large increase in demand to datacores, and I believe it is in Matalino's best interests to hope that demand exceeds supply, so when his 10,000 characters show up they can blast the market. As Shar has advised (through msn) he obviously has to be careful that he doesn't personally cause the market to become flooded thus self-inflicting loss of profits due to reduction in unit value. I am sure Matalino is more than competent to handle this situation. (note: it's spelt competition Matalino) Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Contralto Gallente Southern Tallen Labs	Posted - 2007.10.11 10:38:00 - [70] If only two types of core are being harvested it will not have so big an impact. I speculated a bit in Gallente starship cores, 3 weeks ago I bought 3600 of them at market sell prices. I paid around 70k per core, I see now the lowest sell price is approaching 500k and lowest buy price is 220k (Sinq Laison) My initial 250 mill investment is now worth close to 1.8 Bill at sell prices, 800k at buy prices. With Starship core having a x3 multiplier 600k this equates to Mech Eng cores at 2 mill which have a x1 multiplier, (T2 BS take 32 of each for every invention attempt) I think the "Hot" cores will be the Mech eng and the 4 racial starship. So the OP can easily expand operations as the need occurs and if one core falls in demand he can easily switch to another, especially if they are all skilling the entire range of skills required. I will be eager to get in on the next release and If I had known earlier would have been after the whole first issue as well. I dumped 2 bill into Chribbas IPO last year and that was just for a bit of Eve history (So far).
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.10.11 13:45:00 - [71] Originally by: Contralto With Starship core having a x3 multiplier, at 600k+ this equates to Mech Eng cores at 2 mill which have a x1 multiplier The multiplier is misleading as it gets applied when withdrawing datacores. So Mech Eng costs 50 rp to purchase (x1) and Racial Starship Eng costs 150 (x3). It's A GIRL!!!!!
Contralto Gallente A Thorn Industries Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:10:00 - [72] Edited by: Contralto on 11/10/2007 19:12:10 Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Contralto With Starship core having a x3 multiplier, at 600k+ this equates to Mech Eng cores at 2 mill which have a x1 multiplier The multiplier is misleading as it gets applied when withdrawing datacores. So Mech Eng costs 50 rp to purchase (x1) and Racial Starship Eng costs 150 (x3). So 3 starship costing 600k plus or minus equates to one Mech eng at around 2 mill. Starship agent gives you three times the number of RP's but the cores are worth 3 times less than the mech eng. same value when going to the bank, Its a Guy!!
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.10.11 19:28:00 - [73] Originally by: Contralto Starship agent gives you three times the number of RP's but the cores are worth 3 times less than the mech eng. same value when going to the bank, Two things, first you are doing your math wrong. You get 1 starship engineering datacore and 1 mech engineering datacore at the same time and same rate of acquisition. There is no three (3) times the rate of datacore acquisition. You get three times the rp but when you extract the rp it gets divided by the multiplier as well. I think the algebra would be: (3x/3y)=(1a/1b) In the end, x - y - a - b all equals 1. However in terms of isk 1 Starship datacore != 1 Mech Engineering datacore. Not even close. Originally by: Contralto Its a Guy!! I wonder, are you trying to make some sort of insult about my daughter? It's A GIRL!!!!!
Contralto Gallente A Thorn Industries Corporation	Posted - 2007.10.12 04:01:00 - [74] 2 points here, On the comparison of datacores it is obvious to me that we are both meaning the same thing, put simply I am trying to say, 3 starship cores are worth 1 mech eng core so even though the Starship apear to be flowing in at a great rate the overall value is the same. 2 ways of saying the same thing, just a different way of looking at it :) I bet your University!! I am school of life. And on the "its a guy" thing, I didnt even notice it was a link! thought you were refering to the reaction of some guys in Eve to finding out a female character is in fact a real girl. Mine certainly wasnt a link and was a feeble attempt at humor, sorry if that link leads to your daughter. I didnt mouse over it. Anyway we are derailing the thread! enough about babies and datacore values.! sorry folks!
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.12 14:35:00 - [75] Edited by: Matalino on 12/10/2007 14:38:33 Originally by: Contralto On the comparison of datacores it is obvious to me that we are both meaning the same thing, put simply I am trying to say, 3 starship cores are worth 1 mech eng core so even though the Starship apear to be flowing in at a great rate the overall value is the same. 2 ways of saying the same thing, just a different way of looking at it :) I am not 100% sure that you do both mean the same thing. You seemed to indicate that Mechanical Engineering are fundamently worth 3x the value of Starship cores datacores. This is not the case. In the long term they should even out at near to the same price. The reason that Starship datacores are starting far below the long term stable price is because there is still, even after having invention for a year, a vast supply of datacores from RP collected from before Rev I. This is componded by the fact that many of those who are still collecting RP for Starship datacores, do so only because they are too lazy to find new agents or train new skills. If Starship datacore prices rise, those who were previously too lazy to harvest, will do so, as such I expect that we will continue to see supply exceed demand for a very long time. It is this vast oversupply that has driven the Starship datacore prices so low. The rate at which RP is collected has no effect because the RP cost of datacores is proportional to the rate of RP collection. Mechanical Engineering Datacores cost 50 RP, Starship Datacores cost 150 RP. Any 3:1 ratio that we see in price today is purely chance, and not due to any fundamental market pressure. Because of the vast oversupply of Starship datacores, I cannot foresee this Venture ever moving in to production of those types of datacores. It is simply not worth it when there are other vastly more profitable datacore types. I will however, keep an eye on the changes in datacore prices and be prepared to move into new fields if there is a market shift. However, last time that I checked, these (Mechanical and Molecular) two datacore types were the most profitable by about 50%. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
VariableK	Posted - 2007.10.13 14:53:00 - [76] Hello All! I am only about a 2 month member of Eve and have been missioning just about everyday. I've saved up some iskies and am looking forward to try my hand at investing. This is all new to me and I have been reading the forums a lot about it and finally decided on trying to invest in this IPO. I am a little discouraged / encouraged about this debate over smaller numbers of large investers / larger number of smaller investers. Obviously I am a little biased since well I'm a small investor, but I would like the chance to be apart of something like this. Don't get me wrong I'm not playing the newb card here and I know...its a crual hard world out there so I'm not asking for any favoritism or hand holding, but I would encourage everyone, especially the large investors, to try and let some of the small frys get a chance at owning some shares by not buying out everything ASAP. Anyways first post on the forum. I hope it was respectful enough for you all and thanks for your time. I look forward to scrabbling over shares with you all! Thanks. Kyle BTW where do I go to find out when the exact time the next batch of shares will be offered? Is there a mailing list or is it this thread? Thanks ahead of time.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.13 17:27:00 - [77] Originally by: VariableK BTW where do I go to find out when the exact time the next batch of shares will be offered? Is there a mailing list or is it this thread? Thanks ahead of time. I will post an announcement in this thread. There will be no need for those who order to post, they just need to send the ISK to the corp Datacore Harvesting. I expect that the shares will go increadably fast, so I do not think that there will be a need to create a thread in the Sell Orders forum. So just keep your eye on this thread on Oct 24 and 25. Most likely I will make the announcement shortly after I get home from work. So that means that the best time to watch for it will be between 23:00 and 01:00. Any ISK sent before the time stamp of the official post will be returned to ensure that everyone has a equal chance. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.13 18:09:00 - [78] Originally by: VariableK Don't get me wrong I'm not playing the newb card here and I know...its a crual hard world out there so I'm not asking for any favoritism or hand holding, but I would encourage everyone, especially the large investors, to try and let some of the small frys get a chance at owning some shares by not buying out everything ASAP. Welcome to these forums, it's nice to see new faces in here (especially those looking to invest rather than creating a character to request money). I bought out Matalino's first offering but am happy to sell you a few million isk worth of shares at purchase price (no markups at all). Let me know how much you want and I will fix you up (<5m) Think of it as a welcoming gift (that you still have to pay for) Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
VariableK	Posted - 2007.10.13 19:20:00 - [79] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: VariableK Don't get me wrong I'm not playing the newb card here and I know...its a crual hard world out there so I'm not asking for any favoritism or hand holding, but I would encourage everyone, especially the large investors, to try and let some of the small frys get a chance at owning some shares by not buying out everything ASAP. Welcome to these forums, it's nice to see new faces in here (especially those looking to invest rather than creating a character to request money). I bought out Matalino's first offering but am happy to sell you a few million isk worth of shares at purchase price (no markups at all). Let me know how much you want and I will fix you up (<5m) Think of it as a welcoming gift (that you still have to pay for) Ricdic...I see your name all over the forums! First off, I would like to say thank you very much for your generous offer! I know it's not a lot to you but to me that is a decent amount. Second, I know I am going to be kicking myself later for this but I feel I need to decline your offer. It just doesn't seem fair to all the other investors that because I am just starting, I get a shot at some shares. Yes they are yours and you can do what you want with them but I dunno....Let me give you a really bad metaphor...If I'm am going to take this dive into investing, I want to be able to say I dove off the high board, performed a perfect swan dive and either smacked the pavement or hit the water without any safety net. Ugh I just read that over again.... ::shakes head in silence:: Well if you can get past the bad metaphor, I really wanna hit the scrabble with all the other investers and try to climb outa the pit with some shares in my hand. Again thanks for the offer and I look forward to out buying you on the next selling date! Yeah like I even have a fraction of what you have ...But you gotta start somewhere! Have a nice day! Kyle
Investigador Caldari Hator inc The Omni Federation	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:32:00 - [80] Edited by: Investigador on 14/10/2007 02:32:42 Originally by: Matalino Edited by: Matalino on 04/10/2007 22:02:28 I just checked the corp's wallet balance through the API. It now reads 5,548,400,000. There were only 4,836,000,000 ISK in shares available. So that means that we have sold out. I really wasn't needing to sell out until Oct 20. Obviously this went much faster than even I had thought. Not even 24 hours. I'll bet that the reason because you got bought out is simply your reasoned response on this post and the following two, addressing all concerns on an educated and ordered way. So many people complain about lack of communication and transparence on IPOs. The moment you showed that you had those two things, you were bought out :D
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.14 02:39:00 - [81] Originally by: Investigador Edited by: Investigador on 14/10/2007 02:32:42 Originally by: Matalino Edited by: Matalino on 04/10/2007 22:02:28 I just checked the corp's wallet balance through the API. It now reads 5,548,400,000. There were only 4,836,000,000 ISK in shares available. So that means that we have sold out. I really wasn't needing to sell out until Oct 20. Obviously this went much faster than even I had thought. Not even 24 hours. I'll bet that the reason because you got bought out is simply your reasoned response on this post and the following two, addressing all concerns on an educated and ordered way. So many people complain about lack of communication and transparence on IPOs. The moment you showed that you had those two things, you were bought out :D Thank you for the compliment. I am trying to make this the best venture that I can. First part was coming up with a plan. Second part is carrying it out. And a large part of that second part is making sure that my investors can trust me. I have noticed the lack of communication from many of the other IPO's, and wanted to make communication one of my key priorities. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.14 03:11:00 - [82] Originally by: VariableK Second, I know I am going to be kicking myself later for this but I feel I need to decline your offer. It just doesn't seem fair to all the other investors that because I am just starting, I get a shot at some shares. Yes they are yours and you can do what you want with them but I dunno....Let me give you a really bad metaphor...If I'm am going to take this dive into investing, I want to be able to say I dove off the high board, performed a perfect swan dive and either smacked the pavement or hit the water without any safety net. Great metaphor, understood completely. I am glad you responded in the way you did, it was on my mind as I was writing the post, except I figured 5m worth of shares isn't enough to inconvenience anyone. Anyway the offer is there if/when you want it . Welcome again, and yes I post way too much in these damn forums. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Inmate 9818783	Posted - 2007.10.14 22:32:00 - [83] Has the mech datacore farming begun already? Very intrigued with the 8000 datacores dumped on the Jita market today, if only for the inflated price - 20m Interesting the number released on the market, given rev 3 invention requirement, but why place at such a high price?..
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.14 22:36:00 - [84] It'll be at least a month or two before any characters this business will even be capable of making datacores. No, what you're seeing is traders speculating on the price of datacores and putting them early for whatever reason.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.15 03:59:00 - [85] Originally by: Benvie It'll be at least a month or two before any characters this business will even be capable of making datacores. No, what you're seeing is traders speculating on the price of datacores and putting them early for whatever reason. This answer is spot on. Datacore Harvesting will not yield any datacores for atleast another 1-2 months. I do have some Datacore production already in place with Ki Tech, but it is now where near those volumes. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.15 06:10:00 - [86] Hehe, the Matalina IPO would be insanely high profit if Mech Eng sat at 20m per unit. But this won't happen. Probably just someone buying all market stock and trying to capitalise on Jita. Question is how long he can hold the price at that level, how fat his wallet is. He may be counting on that product dropping from the 20m, but hoping that his high start will encourage 19.9m sells, and counter wars down to 15 or so, at which point he can modify his order and force the market to follow his stride. But attempting manipulation on this entire field is one hell of a feat. It can be done and we may still see it occur but it will take a hell of a lot of work. Usually manipulation at such a percentage won't work, but I have seen and been responsible for times that it has worked. Anyone rememeber Stolen Formula's for 160m per unit . Before that coo started I had 87 units purchased for 20-35m each. Was able to force the market into an upward state and hold it there long enough to sell the majority of my stock. I also had other suppliers of them I had contacted advising them to set similar pricing to which they did. It's definetly possible to manipulate your market, the idea is to get there first, know where your limitations are, and cross your fingers and toes. Also working with your major competitors rather than against them makes it a far easier job. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Synjin Sinner Gallente The Phalanx Expeditionary Conglomerate Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2007.10.15 09:09:00 - [87] For an example only... what if I were a competitor already doing this..... I dont want you bringing more datacore stock to the market... I want to know how you plan to move all the datacores, how you intend to P/L your standings.... A nice long lasting war dec on you might hurt your IPO... what is your plan if this happens? collecting and moving the cores can easily be done to avoid a war dec by using a alt not in corp.. is this part of your ipo? if so thats 1 less character harvesting cores.. Its the actual P/l you need to do that concerns me if I were to invest. I beleive you stated you were doing this all on your own... So it shall not be hard for anyone to dec you on your main acct(corp) and cause you grief while you try to p/l your army of alts... Have you put any thought into getting from 0 standing to enough standing while preventing any wars on you that would slow down your ipo? Just trying to find an angle on this that will help you get your ipo off smoothly and help you not run into any roadblocks along the way... I really like the idea and business plan a lot.. and your in good hands with Ricdic! looking to invest when this opens up and thx for taking the time to answer my questions.. Synjin Sinner CEO of TPEC
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.15 14:34:00 - [88] Originally by: bluejeansandpudding Do you give shares for assets? I am not sure what you mean by this question. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.15 15:25:00 - [89] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: bluejeansandpudding Do you give shares for assets? I am not sure what you mean by this question. He is a troll. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.15 18:12:00 - [90] I'm sure if you wanted you could use courier contracts as well. For 2-4% of your profits they would get done pretty quick. Anything to or from Jita gets done very quickly usually.
Kiyoshi Aphelion The Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch Dogs of War.	Posted - 2007.10.16 20:29:00 - [91] Hey Matalino, Think your offer is great and it's an amazing idea. Sent you isk about two days ago but I hadn't received any shares as of yet. I was wondering if everything was alright or if it had been sold out. Drop me a line in game. --Kiyo
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.16 20:32:00 - [92] Edited by: Matalino on 16/10/2007 20:32:40 Originally by: Kiyoshi Aphelion Hey Matalino, Think your offer is great and it's an amazing idea. Sent you isk about two days ago but I hadn't received any shares as of yet. I was wondering if everything was alright or if it had been sold out. Drop me a line in game. --Kiyo Sorry, I haven't checked the corp wallet in a couple of days. I just checked it now through the API and I see the ISK that you have sent. I am not accepting orders for the third batch yet, so I will return that ISK to you as soon as I get home from work, which should be about 23:00 Eve time. Sorry again about the delay in getting that back to you. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
VariableK	Posted - 2007.10.17 02:04:00 - [93] Originally by: Ricdic Originally by: VariableK Second, I know I am going to be kicking myself later for this but I feel I need to decline your offer. It just doesn't seem fair to all the other investors that because I am just starting, I get a shot at some shares. Yes they are yours and you can do what you want with them but I dunno....Let me give you a really bad metaphor...If I'm am going to take this dive into investing, I want to be able to say I dove off the high board, performed a perfect swan dive and either smacked the pavement or hit the water without any safety net. Great metaphor, understood completely. I am glad you responded in the way you did, it was on my mind as I was writing the post, except I figured 5m worth of shares isn't enough to inconvenience anyone. Anyway the offer is there if/when you want it . Welcome again, and yes I post way too much in these damn forums. Ricdic, glad you got the metaphor Also, I am happy you agree with my decision and well am looking forward to trying this out! Assuming of course that I can nab some shares in a week! Thanks for you help and I will be reading everyones posts! Thanks again! Kyle
Miss Fiona Gallente Nexus Trading guild	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:39:00 - [94] DO NOT INVEST THIS IS A SCAM
Bringing Sexyback	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:45:00 - [95] Oh Noes! Miss GeneralStarscream is yelling scam! and i invested! Shoot now i am gonna be broke! Such a desprate last gasp from a scammer... Miss Fiona i am disappointed...
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.17 21:53:00 - [96] Originally by: Bringing Sexyback Oh Noes! Miss GeneralStarscream is yelling scam! and i invested! Shoot now i am gonna be broke! Such a desprate last gasp from a scammer... Miss Fiona i am disappointed... I figure that I will leave it for my investors to defend my honor. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.17 22:42:00 - [97] Originally by: Miss Fiona DO NOT INVEST THIS IS A SCAM Starscream you idiot, just because no one bought into your scam isn't reason to make a spectacle of yourself by shouting scam in the legitimate threads. A fire. Go die in one.
Han BlackNova	Posted - 2007.10.18 03:37:00 - [98] Hi. Im fairly new to EVE and im not as upto date as you guys seem to be so forgive me if i seem a bit stupid about all this. I have had a look at what you are offering and it seems like a really good investment. When i join EVE a mate that was leaving the game gave me a decent amount of money and seeing i just fly round shooting stuff at the moment im looking to put some ISK in a investmet. Im looking at puting down 100 mill isk. I see that you are sold out at the moment butim intrested in your next issue when it comes. Could you please respond to this post when you can and tell me if thats enough ISK to get me going and tell me in laymans terms what i need to do to buy in. Thanks for the offer Han BlackNova
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.18 04:01:00 - [99] Originally by: Han BlackNova Hi. Im fairly new to EVE and im not as upto date as you guys seem to be so forgive me if i seem a bit stupid about all this. I have had a look at what you are offering and it seems like a really good investment. When i join EVE a mate that was leaving the game gave me a decent amount of money and seeing i just fly round shooting stuff at the moment im looking to put some ISK in a investmet. Im looking at puting down 100 mill isk. I see that you are sold out at the moment butim intrested in your next issue when it comes. Could you please respond to this post when you can and tell me if thats enough ISK to get me going and tell me in laymans terms what i need to do to buy in. Thanks for the offer Han BlackNova Welcome to Eve. I do not have any minimum investment size, so you are certainly welcome to invest when the next batch of shares becomes available. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Han BlackNova	Posted - 2007.10.18 08:58:00 - [100] Thanks very much for your quick response. Also thanks for putting up with my Noob status Id like to Invest 100 mill ISK as soon as the next shares become available. If its possible i would like to reserve them now. If not then ill buy them when they come online. Could you please post the wallet details that i need to pay ISK into and i would be happy to pre pay 100mill in the next few days. If you would rather wait then thats cool to. Just don't want to miss out as it seem like shares go quick
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.18 09:04:00 - [101] Originally by: Han BlackNova Thanks very much for your quick response. Also thanks for putting up with my Noob status Id like to Invest 100 mill ISK as soon as the next shares become available. If its possible i would like to reserve them now. If not then ill buy them when they come online. Could you please post the wallet details that i need to pay ISK into and i would be happy to pre pay 100mill in the next few days. If you would rather wait then thats cool to. Just don't want to miss out as it seem like shares go quick I don't believe he takes reservations. If I remember it's on a first come, first served basis when he releases the next batch.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.18 12:42:00 - [102] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan I don't believe he takes reservations. If I remember it's on a first come, first served basis when he releases the next batch. Correct, but he is on my MSN list, so best of luck to you all Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.18 14:26:00 - [103] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan I don't believe he takes reservations. If I remember it's on a first come, first served basis when he releases the next batch. Sorry, no reservations are accepted because I have not found an effective and fair way to allow for them. If I had been taking reservations, the third batch and problably most of the fourth batch would have already sold out. It will be released on a first-come first-served basis, just like the last one, with shares issued in the order that ISK is received. As I have stated before, I expect to make the announcement to release those shares on either Oct 24 or 25, most likely between 23:00 and 01:00 as that is when I get home from work. Originally by: Ricdic Correct, but he is on my MSN list, so best of luck to you all Just to be fair to everyone else, I won't be announcing it on MSN first. Besides, I don't normally see you online that early. PS - I should have the first Board Member report to you either later today or tomorrow. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.18 15:21:00 - [104] I suggest you give 24h notice before the next share offering. Allow no reservations/purchases until precisely after that 24h period. This way people have time to see it and allow for it. Much like making sure you are available when an auction is nearing completion so you can catch the last bid. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.18 15:55:00 - [105] Originally by: Ricdic I suggest you give 24h notice before the next share offering. Allow no reservations/purchases until precisely after that 24h period. This way people have time to see it and allow for it. Much like making sure you are available when an auction is nearing completion so you can catch the last bid. I don't see the point, I have all but stated the exact minute already. The detirmining factor will be how fast I buy up the GTC's that I need. If purchase all the GTC's by the 24th, then I will release the shares then. If not I will release them on the 25th. People know what time to look for the post: as soon as I get home form work. Which is normally 23:00 - 23:30 depending on which bus I catch. Give me a few minutes to type the post, and then the race begins. I have given people alot more than 24 hours notice, as I have been telling anyone who asks this for over a week now. I was saying 23:00 - 01:00 incase I need to stop at the grocery store or something on my way home, or if there is some other minor delay in getting the post up. There will be less than 1.7B in shares available in this batch so I expect them to go fast. As such I am not going to make the announcement too late, so that I can monitor its progress, and wrap everything up that night. I would be suprised if the whole thing is not done by 02:00. If I am going to give a 24 hour notice then I would do it using the reservation system that I suggested in another thread. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Lil'Kim	Posted - 2007.10.18 22:10:00 - [106] My godness, this stinks to high heaven. Its farking obvious thats its run by riddic & his alts. I can't say whether its a scam, but the overuse of alts is not something I find trustworthy. Invest at your own risk.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.18 22:14:00 - [107] Edited by: Matalino on 18/10/2007 22:16:45 Originally by: Lil'Kim My godness, this stinks to high heaven. Its farking obvious thats its run by riddic & his alts. Believe this if you want, but with a tiny bit of investigation you would quickly see that I keep a schedule consistant with Mountain Standard Time in Canada, while Ricdic has a schedule based in Australia. It is kind of hard to pretend to be on opposite sides of the world. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
bluejeansandpudding	Posted - 2007.10.19 03:03:00 - [108] Originally by: Lil'Kim My godness, this stinks to high heaven. Its farking obvious thats its run by riddic & his alts. I can't say whether its a scam, but the overuse of alts is not something I find trustworthy. Invest at your own risk. Another starscam alt? Go spam in recruitment about how Zzz are all scammers .
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.19 03:54:00 - [109] Originally by: Lil'Kim My godness, this stinks to high heaven. Its farking obvious thats its run by riddic & his alts. I can't say whether its a scam, but the overuse of alts is not something I find trustworthy. Invest at your own risk. Lol that's gold. If you read Matalino's business plan you will see it's far smarter than anything I could write up Or maybe we should compare IP addresses for verification. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Han BlackNova Minmatar RedStar Weapon Systems	Posted - 2007.10.19 04:42:00 - [110] Edited by: Han BlackNova on 19/10/2007 04:43:48 Thanks guys for getting back to about my questions. I look forward to trying to get some shares myself. Fingers crossed for the 24th cause ill be away in another state on the 25th. 1 last question and this one is for Ricdic. I saw on a post that you are a Australian. I am to. Could you confirm for mr the local time here of when the shares will be released as stated by matalino so i got the best chance of getting my hands on some. Dont have to if you dont want to but it would be kind to help a fellow Aussie out Thanks again guys for helping a someone new.
Lieutenant Obvious Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.19 09:06:00 - [111] 2300 on those dates will be around 9am on a Thursday or Friday. Not sooo great for us workers :( But hey, we get DT at 9pm also, so I'm used to our horribly crap timezone.
Trading Bunnz ElArms International	Posted - 2007.10.22 04:32:00 - [112] Edited by: Trading Bunnz on 22/10/2007 04:32:46 Quote: 2300 on those dates will be around 9am on a Thursday or Friday Sif, you know it'll actually be 13:00 on SUNDAY. edit : for clarity.
Ghengis Khan Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2007.10.22 11:36:00 - [113] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Ricdic I was saying 23:00 - 01:00 what timzone is this? 23¦¦ sounds like youre from europe.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 14:19:00 - [114] Edited by: Matalino on 22/10/2007 14:20:05 Originally by: Ghengis Khan what timzone is this? 23¦¦ sounds like youre from europe. I am in North America, Mountain time zone. As is standard for the forums, the time that I quoted is Eve time / GMT. 23:00 GMT is 5:00 pm MDT, which is about the time I get home from work. From there you can figure out what time that would be in your time zone. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
jongalt	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:37:00 - [115] i am not trying to dissuade anybody from investing - its nicely written; but i do have some "questions". conceptually, how is this different from complex farming? or macro-mining? with an operation of this scale (144+ characters "designed" to maximize data core yield after the expansion), is this not similiar? why wouldnt this fall under the conceptual umbrella of complex-farming or macro-mining? -jg.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:39:00 - [116] Well it doesn't prevent other people from accessing resources like those other types of farming you mentioned. It's something anyone can do.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 19:53:00 - [117] Edited by: Matalino on 22/10/2007 19:59:55 Originally by: jongalt conceptually, how is this different from complex farming? or macro-mining? I know alot of people have an aversion to "farming", but it is not farming that is the fundamental problem, it is the use of macro's and other tools to aid farming that is illegal. Running missions or ratting, at any level is farming, if it is done with the intention of gaining resources instead of purely entertainment. Mining in any form is farming, because its entertainment value is on par with watching paint dry. Farming in and of itself is just resource collection. The difference between this operation and what most people think of for complex farming and macro-mining, is that this operation is completely allowed within the EULA. Macro-mining is obviously forbidden, due to the use of macro's. Many of the implemenations of complexe farming also use macro's to maximize returns. Another huge difference is that many of those involved in complexe farming and even more particularly macro-mining, do so to operate RMT operations. This operation has no connection what so ever with RMT. If there could be claimed any connection with RMT, it would be that this operation is the ultimate counter weapon, as it will help maintain GTC prices high enough to make RMT even less attractive. Every thing is done completely within the EULA, and done for the enjoyment of the game. Originally by: jongalt however, couldn't the means by which those data cores are harvested fall under the macro-miner/complex-farmer conceptual umbrella? Only if I tried using some sort of macro to gain standings, which is not even close to the case. The Board of Directs know exactly how standings will be gained, and it is completely legal. This operation is much more like AFK mining than macro-mining. One could also compare it to operation of a research lab without the resellable/destructable POS assests. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
jongalt	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:04:00 - [118] i understand the "literal" comparisons differ. which is why i asked about the "conceptual" idea. at the scale you are proposing (144+ characters), wouldnt the conceptual means be the same? its not macro-mining in the literal sense. but to claim its on the same conceptual level as afk-mining when you are using 144+ characters seems to be a pretty big distortion of the definition given the "scale". im sure you are EULA compliant to the letter. however, i wonder if the spirit of the game is compromised. (perhaps that is only my loss.) -jg.
jongalt	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:07:00 - [119] to address the lab example: running a lab provides a service or a product to customers willing to pay. i dont see a service or a product in the harvesting of datacores. am i misunderstanding the analogy? -jg.
jongalt	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:17:00 - [120] after thinking about it, i suppose the increased supply of data cores to the public would be the service you are providing. -jg.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:24:00 - [121] Edited by: Matalino on 22/10/2007 20:25:37 Originally by: jongalt im sure you are EULA compliant to the letter. however, i wonder if the spirit of the game is compromised. (perhaps that is only my loss.) No. That is a fair question. I am perhaps comprimising the priciple that it should not be possible to earn ISK when AFK. However, that is also the case with operation of a research lab. As you said, supplying datacores could be called a public service. I don't know of too many players (perhaps not T2 BPO owners) that would not like to see lower datacore prices allowing lower T2 item prices due to invention. I can tolerate the lower datacore prices that I would generate by harvesting these datacores as I make up for those lower prices through volume. I have publicly stated what my minimum price is needed to ensure viablilty of the corp, and it is about a third of current prices. I am confident that competition would back off before the price reachs that low. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
MasterTao Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:54:00 - [122] Edited by: MasterTao on 22/10/2007 20:55:18 Don't know if it is asked before, since i just skimmed through the pages. What happens when u decide to stop the business and sell the characters? Will investor get back only what they paid for initially or will there be extra compensation? From my understanding, unlike other IPOs where there is a cost of operation, the money spend in your operation (GTC) adds value to the toons. Therefore it is like a fixed asset that keep on increasing value every month and not operation expense. All the profit you make from selling the datacores are actually retained 100%. So after 8% monthly dividend, the remaining 92% are kept by the company. Most of its value locked in the toon themselves. So unless i'm missing something big here, after your toons are established. Your profit is close to 14+ billion every month assuming you are gonna sell those 144 characters someday.
jongalt	Posted - 2007.10.22 20:58:00 - [123] ok. thanks for acknowledging what is "lost" and what is "gained". im sure you already know this but if you dont, Rells is lobbying for a nerf on your datacores in the test server forum. since he still believes in the "arborescent" model of political change as opposed to the "rhizomatic" model that the devs seem to respond to, i doubt he will be successful. good luck with your IPO. i dont mean this as a parthian shot, but i wonder if this model of "meta-gaming" encourages a certain ethic (or lack thereof) of "big-business". and if so, is that a good thing? -jg.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:05:00 - [124] Originally by: MasterTao Don't know if it is asked before, since i just skimmed through the pages. What happens when u decide to stop the business and sell the characters? None of the characters will ever be sold. The only source of revenue is the sale of datacores. If I decide to quit Eve, the characters will simply be left on my inactive accounts. Originally by: MasterTao Will investor get back only what they paid for initially or will there be extra compensation? If the project is successful, investors will get back what they paid along with the promised interest. There is an on going discussion of how this might be changed. With the new proposal, (which is still being discussed and has not yet been presented to investors to make any desicions on) there would be an increased risk that they might not get the full amount that they paid back. However, this risk is offset by the possiblilty that they could earn FAR more than the originally promissed return of 4% bi-weekly. Even with the new proposal, the aim of the worst case scenario is that investors would still get their original investment plus interest. It is only in the event of a worse than worst case scenario (if that makes any sense) that investor would not get their original investment with interest. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:07:00 - [125] Originally by: jongalt im sure you already know this but if you dont, Rells is lobbying for a nerf on your datacores in the test server forum. I will need to have a look at that. Thanks for the head up. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 21:55:00 - [126] Originally by: jongalt i dont mean this as a parthian shot, but i wonder if this model of "meta-gaming" encourages a certain ethic (or lack thereof) of "big-business". and if so, is that a good thing? To me "meta-gaming" is just another part of "gaming". I make little if any distinction. Most game that I play, not just computer games, I enjoy the meta-game, more than the actual game. Everyone enjoys different styles of gaming. The great beauty of Eve is that it has so very many styles of game play that are possible. I do not think that my style degrades anyone elses. If anything it helps pull together the whole into something greater than each of its parts. Thanks to your questions, I have taken the time to reflect on how my project will help other players gain easier access to the equipment that they want, and how I will make live harder for those evil ISK sellers by providing greater demand for legitimate GTC trades. This on top of providing investors an opportunity to invest in something intersting, and giving myself a challenge to rise to. As for ethics, I try to aspire to the highest moral standards that I can. It is simply a choice, one that I often see contrasted against the choice of others. But it is contrast and opposition that make life so interesting and beautiful. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
MasterTao Caldari	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:30:00 - [127] Edited by: MasterTao on 22/10/2007 22:30:31 Originally by: Matalino None of the characters will ever be sold. The only source of revenue is the sale of datacores. If I decide to quit Eve, the characters will simply be left on my inactive accounts. Are you seriously saying that you will forsake hundreds of billions of potential sale? That's either very noble or very um.. well... Don't get me wrong, I think this IPO is brilliant. waaaay too brilliant.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2007.10.22 22:54:00 - [128] Well the trick is, he can cancel the accounts for as long as he wants and if he ever comes back all the juicy datacores will be waiting for him to come harvest. A friend of mine who hasn't played in a long time let me get all the datacores from his 10 agents across two characters. 3 years of RPs is a lot of datacores...
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.22 23:14:00 - [129] Originally by: MasterTao Edited by: MasterTao on 22/10/2007 22:30:31 Originally by: Matalino None of the characters will ever be sold. The only source of revenue is the sale of datacores. If I decide to quit Eve, the characters will simply be left on my inactive accounts. Are you seriously saying that you will forsake hundreds of billions of potential sale? That's either very noble or very um.. well... or very um.. well... Sane! There is no way in hell that I plan on spending $2,880 to transfer those character to somebody else, no matter how much imaginary money I get for it. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Oron	Posted - 2007.10.23 06:46:00 - [130] Sure, Matalino I can understand that you can not sell the characters, but thats also the reason I will not invest into your business. Basicly your investors pay you the skill time of the alternate chars and only get a share of the datacores they harvest. While the character are the more valueable assest (cause they "make" the datacores), and you just keep them forever. Its basicly an investment of ISK in a "real world item": character accounts - that cant work and is somehow shady. Sorry.
Shinhan Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.10.23 08:19:00 - [131] Originally by: Oron Sure, Matalino I can understand that you can not sell the characters, but thats also the reason I will not invest into your business. Basicly your investors pay you the skill time of the alternate chars and only get a share of the datacores they harvest. While the character are the more valueable assest (cause they "make" the datacores), and you just keep them forever. Its basicly an investment of ISK in a "real world item": character accounts - that cant work and is somehow shady. Sorry. Under the new, proposed, payment plan, the only profit he will get out of running this IPO will be the characters themselves. -- Selling apples, 1 signature each. ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.23 11:15:00 - [132] Edited by: Minerva Vulcan on 23/10/2007 11:15:48 Originally by: jongalt im sure you are EULA compliant to the letter. however, i wonder if the spirit of the game is compromised. (perhaps that is only my loss.) -jg. Personally I think it's plenty within the spirit of the game. EVE is the most open game I've ever played. Pretty much anything goes here, and if you have the imagination to think it up and the means to pull it off, you can do whatever you want, so long as it's within the terms of the EULA, which this indeed is. EVE is a game that rewards creativity.
Oron	Posted - 2007.10.23 12:12:00 - [133] Originally by: Shinhan Under the new, proposed, payment plan, the only profit he will get out of running this IPO will be the characters themselves. Intresting, did'nt know that.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:20:00 - [134] Originally by: Shinhan Under the new, proposed, payment plan, the only profit he will get out of running this IPO will be the characters themselves. This has always been the only payment that I would get. The only real question is when do I get paid. I am allowing discussion on is when I get that payment. Under the current system, it would be as soon as the characters generate enough revenues to repay investors their investment plus interest. Under the proposed system, it would be Jan 2009 regardless of how profitable the characters are between now and then. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
jongalt	Posted - 2007.10.23 14:24:00 - [135] Quote: Personally I think it's plenty within the spirit of the game. EVE is the most open game I've ever played. Pretty much anything goes here, and if you have the imagination to think it up and the means to pull it off, you can do whatever you want, so long as it's within the terms of the EULA, which this indeed is. EVE is a game that rewards creativity. i understand its a sandbox game. im not advocating some kind of neo-marxist economy. however, i question the "ethics" of that justification: anything is "okay", as long as its legal. if "ethics" have nothing to do with business, i guess im either naive, or see nothing but bad examples being set by big-business in rl. while eve is not "rl" in the literal sense, it is created by people who live in "rl" and could be considered a "mirror" to "rl" with lessons to be learned or unlearned. and that, to me, is more valuable than circumsribing the differences between eve and "rl", or ruling out the possibility that eve offers any insight into larger "rl" questions. i dont want to derail the thread any more; i only wanted to cautiously point out what was "lost" and what was "gained" as some kind of milestone (or barometer) of "market ethics". matalino, thanks for your patience. -jg.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 18:52:00 - [136] This week's batch of 15,000 shares will be released in full, effective 23:00 2007-10-25 GMT. Each of those shares will be sold at 108,160.00 ISK each for a total of 1,622,400,000 ISK. The shares will be issued on a first-come first-served basis. As before, shares are purchased by sending ISK directly to the corp [DATAC] Datacore Harvesting. If you send ISK to any of my characters I will still return your ISK, but you will most likely miss out on the opportunity to purchase shares in this batch. To ensure fairness in this race any ISK sent at or before 23:29:59 2007-10-25 will be returned. Shares only will be issued for purchases made at or after 23:30:00 2007-10-25. Shares will be issued in the order that they appear in my Wallet Journal API export. If excess ISK is received, it will be returned, just as was the case with the last batch. Please check the date in-game before sending any ISK, as I do not want to issue a bunch of refunds tomorrow night. The shares will not be available until more than two days after this post. I will NOT be making another post at 23:30 2007-10-25. Purchasing will simply begin at that time. Rather I expect to make a post around 23:35 2007-10-25 providing an initial status update on the progress of sales. I have received more than enough enquiries regarding the purchase of these share to indicate that they will be sold out in short order. More than one person (no, Ricdic was not one of them) has told me that they intend to buy out this entire batch. They may or may not be available to log in at that time, so do not feel immeadiately discouraged by that news. I wish each of you the best of luck with making your purchase. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 18:52:00 - [137] Before anyone else invests in this IPO, I want to reiterate the two assumptions upon which the success of this IPO depends. - Datacore prices will remain above 600K for the next year to year and a half. - 30 Day GTC prices will remain below 240M for the next year to year and a half. If you do not agree with those assumptions, then do not invest. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.23 18:53:00 - [138] There are also a few items of business for shareholders to concider. First, this weekend there will be a vote to decide if this IPO is to expand. I would ask you to read over that thread and make your decision on how you will vote on that proposal. Second, there is currently a discussion of a possible change to the financing structure of this IPO. Currently this is still just discussion. However, I expect to form the results of that discussion into a proposal to be voted on some time in early November. I would ask that anyone who is investing to please read that discussion and provide some input. Lastly, regardless of the outcome of that proposal, I expect that this will be the last batch of shares to be issued in the form of a race at a fixed price. Regardless of the financing model selected, it is in the interest of the corp (and therefore the interest of investors) to issue the fewest possible shares to raise the needed captial. As such, I expect that all future batches of shares will be issued in some form of auction. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.10.24 01:02:00 - [139] Originally by: Matalino [b]- 30 Day GTC prices will remain below 240M for the next year to year and a half. If these are going to be long term toons then why would you even be looking at the 30 GTC price? You should be buying 90 days GTC's which cost less per month then the 30 day. In which case you should have even higher profit.
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 01:29:00 - [140] Please put me down for... ooops...(edited, wanted x shares but will wait until the 25th :)...I guess I will have to wait for the sales thread. do initial investors get a shout in? ;) And good luck with you new venture Shiva/Ghost Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game)
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 03:05:00 - [141] Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 03:10:03 Originally by: Fitz VonHeise If these are going to be long term toons then why would you even be looking at the 30 GTC price? You should be buying 90 days GTC's which cost less per month then the 30 day. In which case you should have even higher profit. I have my reasons. Some others have figured out what those reasons are, but in the interest of not providing a one stop shop on how to build a competing datacore harvesting business I will not repeat those reasons myself. Don't worry, there is a perfectly good reason for that choice. Originally by: Shiva Shakti I guess I will have to wait for the sales thread. There will not be a sales thread, as I expect the shares to sell out so fast that there is no point on creating a seperate thread. Come 23:30 on Oct 25, just send the ISK directly to Datacore Harvesting and hope that you are the first. If you are more than a few minutes late, check this thread first. Because there have been several people who have said that they intend to buy out the whole thing, I would not be suprised if it was all done and over with by 23:35. On the other hand those people might have problems with their internet connection, be stuck at work, or otherwise unable to log in, so don't give up completely. Check here as I will update the first couple of lines of this thread as soon as the shares have sold out. Originally by: Shiva Shakti do initial investors get a shout in? ;) Initial investors will have to take their chances just like everyone else, if they want to buy more shares. Initial investors get their advantage by getting lower prices as share prices will only get higher. They also get to vote in how the IPO will progress. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.24 05:07:00 - [142] Quote: Lastly, regardless of the outcome of that proposal, I expect that this will be the last batch of shares to be issued in the form of a race at a fixed price. Regardless of the financing model selected, it is in the interest of the corp (and therefore the interest of investors) to issue the fewest possible shares to raise the needed captial. As such, I expect that all future batches of shares will be issued in some form of auction. "Best interests" are entirely dependent on which payment model you eventually end up running with. Under the current model of 4% bi-weekly, the only interests served by releasing shares as an auction will be your own. I'll be drawing a fixed 4% either way. My original plan when I bought into your second share batch was to continue to make additional investments along the way. I will do that if share prices remain as originally advertised. I won't invest further if an auction ends up driving those prices up, as doing so would result in less than 8% monthly ROI. 8%+ is attainable through other, equally solid avenues. If you end up with an approved expansion and an approval on your other proposed payment model, I may reconsider future investments even under an auction system. You know I respect you, and I have the utmost faith in my original investment. But the prospect of future investment is totally clouded for me by the number of details you have on the table for change. I can't see re-investing until decisions are made, and you achieve some sort of stability with the business plan. You have a head on your shoulders, which is why I'm trying to be tolerant of all the changes you're making to very important details of the plan that I invested in less than a month ago. But I do find myself hoping that other IPO managers aren't paying attention, as you may actually be setting dangerous precedents. If I found any of your changes terribly objectionable, I might be pretty ****ed off right about now. I don't so far, but that may not be the point. Still looking forward to seeing how all the pieces of this end up fitting together, and still finding plenty of love in my heart for you, Mat Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.24 10:01:00 - [143] Just remember Kitex it is only a discussion thread at this point. I wouldn't spend too much time understanding the specific changes until it passes the discussion phase. It's like me buying up 10 billion isk worth of Quafe due to hearing about the walking on stations change that may be happening in a year or two. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:00:00 - [144] Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 15:05:28 Originally by: Kitex "Best interests" are entirely dependent on which payment model you eventually end up running with. Under the current model of 4% bi-weekly, the only interests served by releasing shares as an auction will be your own. I'll be drawing a fixed 4% either way. I agree that under the current financing model, I have the most to gain by allowing shares to be sold at higher prices. However, existing investors do stand to gain added security because of such sales. By accumulating less debt, I would be able to sustain the promised returns under DC prices lower than the currently assumed 600K. Under the current financing model, I do not seriously expect anyone to pay more than 4-8% more than the recommended share price, and I do not expect prudent investors to pay anything more than the recommended share price. There is no reason or reward for them to do so. However, if there are investors who are willing to give up a few week's worth of returns so that they can ensure that shares are available, then I see no reason why I should not allow them to pad either my wallet or my margins of error by doing so. Under the proposed financing, existing investors would stand to gain all of the profits from the speculation of new investors, because all profits will be paid out during the first year. I have no idea how that feedback loop will play out, it could possibly cause share prices to rise quickly because the higher the share prices, the higher the return will be on each share. The advantage of course for you is that, those who purchased early at low fixed rates stand the most to gain by such speculation. However, as Ricdic said: It's like me buying up 10 billion isk worth of Quafe due to hearing about the walking on stations change that may be happening in a year or two. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:00:00 - [145] Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 15:02:19 Originally by: Kitex My original plan when I bought into your second share batch was to continue to make additional investments along the way. I will do that if share prices remain as originally advertised. I won't invest further if an auction ends up driving those prices up, as doing so would result in less than 8% monthly ROI. 8%+ is attainable through other, equally solid avenues. Since you seem to be a prudent and wise investor, I would not expect you to invest under the existing financing model at anything more than recommended share price set out in the original prospectus. Originally by: Kitex You know I respect you, and I have the utmost faith in my original investment. But the prospect of future investment is totally clouded for me by the number of details you have on the table for change. I can't see re-investing until decisions are made, and you achieve some sort of stability with the business plan. I understand completely. I want to get set on a firm course of action as soon as possible. At this point I am unsure of how investors feel about the basic principle (aside from any detailed proposal) behind the change in the financing plans. I donÆt know how many investors are interested in potentially volatile returns verse how many are only interested in the originally planned fixed returns. So far the most vocal input in the discussion has been largely academic, as the comments come from those who would not invest under either or any financing model. Had I not been contact in-game by at least one investor saying that he was most interested in the possibilities that such a change could offer, I would probably just shelve the whole thing and stick with the original plan, as that is by far the most profitable for myself. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:01:00 - [146] Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 15:01:56 Originally by: Kitex But I do find myself hoping that other IPO managers aren't paying attention, as you may actually be setting dangerous precedents. I hope that the only precedent that I am setting is that IPO managers will communicate with the community and follow the desires of their investors. I will not even consider making any changes that are not fully supported by investors. I will also do my very best to provide an exit option for investors who do not agree with those changes. Originally by: Kitex If I found any of your changes terribly objectionable, I might be pretty **ed off right about now. I don't so far, but that may not be the point. I take that to mean that you have at least a cautious interest in seeing what addition possibilities I might be able to offer. Originally by:** Kitex Still looking forward to seeing how all the pieces of this end up fitting together, and still finding plenty of love in my heart for you, Mat Thank you again for your support. It is greatly appreciated. As Ricdic said, at this point it is still just discussion and speculation. As for all of the speculation and discussion, I plan to put that to rest next week as soon as the dust settles from the shares that are to be sold this week and the vote regarding expansion. Those who hold shares after this sale will decide the direction of the IPO, and that will be the end of it. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:23:00 - [147] Originally by: Matalino Edited by: Matalino on 24/10/2007 15:01:56 Originally by: Kitex But I do find myself hoping that other IPO managers aren't paying attention, as you may actually be setting dangerous precedents. I hope that the only precedent that I am setting is that IPO managers will communicate with the community and follow the desires of their investors. I will not even consider making any changes that are not fully supported by investors. I will also do my very best to provide an exit option for investors who do not agree with those changes. The precedent you're setting is that your initial format was an unsecured loan of 25 billion at a rate of 4% per fortnight dressed up so the inattentive thought it was an IPO. And a lot of people didn't even notice it, due to taking at face value statements like "giving all profits to share-holders" when in fact the bulk of profits went to you so you could pay off the loan/purchase the share-holders' equity. The danger isn't what YOU did - your proposal DID detail the financial model but just carefully avoided describing it as what it was (an unsecured loan - with no real ownership in the company and no profit-sharing). The disturbing element, to me, is that a lot of the initial discussion focussed on how good the plan to make profti for yourself was rather than looking at what the "share-holders'" got out of it - with some people conufsing the two through their own inability to understand that what they were actually being offered. The amusing thing about it is that there's actually serious debate over whether a 25 billion unsecured loan is enough for someone with no track record and no disclosed substantial assets - and whether, instead a 50 billion unsecured loan is more appropriate. In fairness, there is also discussion of a change of the model to at least make a nod in the general direction of it actually being an IPO. You played it well. Selling Ricdic the first batch of shares was actually a master-stroke. It got the forum discussion onto how people could get shares - and away from looking at closely at what share-holders actually stood to gain. It also locked Ricdic in - no way he could then point out it was just an unsecured loan (if he'd even noticed that was the structure) as he'd risk losing his own investment if he did that. Seperating the disucssion of expansion/profit-sharing was also a smart move - as was then apparently saying that if the expansion isn't approved the profit-sharing won't change (i.e. linking them back togetehr after apparently saying they were two different issues). I suspect most forum readers haven't figured out yet the significance of that. Well done all round basically - you've managed to keep discussion largely away from the trickier elements of the plan (those dealing with shareholder risk/return) and on the easy bits (how the plan makes you a load of cash if it goes well). Shockingly, noone at all has even noticed (or at least commented on) what's probably the biggest risk to the initial plan (and it's not scamming OR data-core prices). I'll stay out of further discussion of the plan - and it's not impossible that I may invest (depending on what changes happen to the pay-out model).
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.24 15:45:00 - [148] hehe well it's always possible that this was his master plan. Who knows. But I don't think anyone would be able to pull off such a stunt. Plus he didn't offer me anything, I read the plan, discussed some changes, and then a few days later advised I wanted the first batch If we don our tin foil hats we may be onto something Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:04:00 - [149] Originally by: Ricdic hehe well it's always possible that this was his master plan. Who knows. But I don't think anyone would be able to pull off such a stunt. Plus he didn't offer me anything, I read the plan, discussed some changes, and then a few days later advised I wanted the first batch If we don our tin foil hats we may be onto something I never suggested he offered you anything (beyond the first batch of shares when you asked for them). I don't for a moment believe that he bribed you or similar - if that's how you read my remarks. But it IS a fact that: a) The initial plan is structured so that it behaves exactly like an unsecured loan rather than like an IPO. b) That you either never noticed or never commented on that fact. c) That when I pointed that out in an earlier thread, neither you or he disputed it - despite it being VERY easy to demonstrate as being wrong if it was an incorrect statement by me. Do you disagree with either of those 3 assertions? Or would you rather just make more comments about tin-foil hats etc?
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.24 16:47:00 - [150] Nah the tin foil hat thing was ie if we assumed that he had planned for all of this to happen from the start, that's all. Quote: I never suggested he offered you anything (beyond the first batch of shares when you asked for them). I don't for a moment believe that he bribed you or similar - if that's how you read my remarks. No not at all, was more that his plan would have been extremely well thought out if my buying it out was part of his master plan Quote: a) The initial plan is structured so that it behaves exactly like an unsecured loan rather than like an IPO. Agreed Quote: b) That you either never noticed or never commented on that fact. As you have said, the initial plan shows precisely the information you need to make the assertion as to the type and design of the operation. The advanced material available to the board is operational material that can be used in direct competition against him. Basically the dummies guide to datacore harvesting with (almost) step by step instructions, complete information including agent listings, datacore amounts per agent, time/amount of missions required for standing, times when skills finish training etc etc. All information that the public needed to know is in the document publicised. I am runnning through the advanced document once more to make sure. Short of exact timelines on what should be training here, what should be active/inactive when, etc I cannot see anything relating to the board themselves that would require me to comment on it. Someone offers a business plan, I am asked to comment on the ability of that business plan to succeed after reading the details. I comment that his business plan is sound. I may suggest Matalino reads out the exit strategy from the advanced report, as that gives some info that may be useful to people interested in investing. Quote: c) That when I pointed that out in an earlier thread, neither you or he disputed it - despite it being VERY easy to demonstrate as being wrong if it was an incorrect statement by me. I am not here to correct you, I have my own dealings to attend too. My purpose here is to advise that his business plan is well thought out, and in my opinion well worth investing in. Now, when I purchased 1.85b worth of this investment I knew there was a fixed return, and I also knew there would be a buyback later. As with all businesses, there was always the risk of failure/scam, and in this case the lack of fixed assets may cause some problems. Quote: Do you disagree with either of those 3 assertions? Course not, I just think it's far fetched to believe that everything that has happened with this IPO has been planned down to the last letter. That's where the tin foil hat came from Quote: make more comments about tin-foil hats etc? Tin Foil hats are purely awesome. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:02:00 - [151] Going back to a comment in the expansion thread. Originally by: FastLearner Yep, that's why I've stayed away from it so far: a total lack of clairty on what percentage of profits go to shareholders. That is false. In the original IPO there was no lack of clarity on what percentage of profits go to shareholders. Shareholders would receive whatever percentage of profits was needed to provide a 4% bi-weekly return, not more and not less. That was and still is the promised return. Originally by: Shadarle It has always seemed to me that profits could get extremely high on this possibly... I feel like this could be making upwards of 15% or more per month, but it doesn't seem like there is a set plan to handle higher profits. So I'd love to know if there is an actual plan for high profits and increased divs for shareholders in this case. While Shadarle is not a shareholder, or at least he has publicly stated that he will not be a shareholder because I choose not to disclose shareholder information, even still his comment caught my attention. In light of his comment, I thought that maybe someone my shareholders might be interested in a larger percentage of the profits, in exchange for a larger share of the risks. As such I created a new thread to discuss that possibility. I was disappointed that most of the participation in that discussion was from people who have shown no intent to investing regardless of what I do, to be specific, that would be FastLearner and Shadarle. I try to respect everyoneÆs opinions regarding the operation of this IPO because I consider it to be a public venture. However, due to the lack of actual shareholder participation in that discussion, I was about to disregard the whole possibility of sharing the additional risks and rewards this venture offers. Had I not received encouragement from existing investors in that area outside of that thread, I would have already announced an intention to remain with the existing plan regardless of criticism of the potential profits that would be available to myself. I find that criticism to be fundamentally naive. Of course this venture has the potential to make me fifthly sticking rich. What other motivation do you think that I have for putting in all of the work that is needed to run it! The question is not a matter of how rich I will get, but how much of that wealth I am willing to share with investors. So far, the response that I have received is that many people, more than is needed to sell out all of my shares twice over, are happy to receive the promised 4% bi-weekly and really don't care what is going on behind the scenes as long as they get their 4%. Being generous, I am willing to share some more of the potential gains with my investors, if they are willing to share in more of the risks. That is why I opened a thread to discuss that option. I could just as easily have told everyone off, and kept the surplus for myself. When launching the IPO, I was catering to any potential investor. Now I believe that a transition is complete. From this point on, I am catering to actual investors, and to a lesser extent seriously investigating potential investors. I am no longer going to cater to academic review by those who will not put their money where their mouth is. If you have criticism for this venture, then I expect you to back that criticism with suggestions for improvement and a desire to invest. If you do bring both of those to the table then I am eager to hear what you have to say. However, if either of those is missing, then I really don't give a @#$% what you think about this IPO. As always I am happy to answer questions and address concerns, but I expect that those raising them will have a serious intent to invest if they have not already done so. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:03:00 - [152] As a side note, if any of my existing shareholders would like this venture re-titled as a bond, in the event that there is no change to the financing, I will do so. However, I believe that decision should be made by those who are actually invested in the venture and not by the academic crowd. Originally by: Ricdic I may suggest Matalino reads out the exit strategy from the advanced report, as that gives some info that may be useful to people interested in investing. I will include a couple of the different possibilities regarding the exit strategy when presenting the proposed refinancing next week. Ultimately the refinancing would change nothing other than the exit strategy, so that is about all the presentation will contain: different exit scenarios and how the two models compare. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Cabernetter	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:34:00 - [153] I feel as an investor I have the right to comment on what Fastlearning has falsely characterized of my intelligence. I am neither ignorant nor naive and do not appreciate being called either. The day the IPO hit the forums I read every word of the entire proposal multiple times. I understood exactly what was being offereed, exactly how much of a return was going to be given, and exactly what the money would be used for and the eventual ending of the corporation. You are entitled to your opinion of this venture, however please refrain from insinuating that I, as an investor, or other investors for that matter, do not have the intelligence to read a proposal and judge for ourselves the risks, rewards, and general direction of a venture. If you choose not to invest, that is perfectly acceptable. I decided I wanted to invest, I wanted to support this endeavor, I accepted the stated ROI and made my decision. It was not a matter of blind faith or misunderstood intentions. I was happy with what was laid out, and am now very excited about the possiblities of expansion and proposed changes to the financing model. In short, I am a happy, and INFORMED investor, and would appreciate not being labled anything other than that by someone whom I do not know, nor who knows the decisions or thought processes I have.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.24 17:59:00 - [154] Nice posts by both Cabernetta and Matalino. Some Jerry Springer type stuff happening here. But I do agree completely, as one of the majority investors at this point, I invested based on what I first read, and not any expectation of extra isk. Sure it was always in my mind that he would be making a fortune for it, but really. How many other people in their right mind would have the patience to handle an army of 140 odd characters? Hell, I had about 18 in total and that was hard enough (Research alts on multiple accounts, search the name Ricdic in P&P for the barmy army.) So whether this stays as is, or changes over to the new proposed model (whatever it may be) I have no regrets on my investment at all. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Cabernetter	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:17:00 - [155] Thank You, Ricdic. I do not mean to stir up Jerry Springer-esque fights or flaming. Simply to state that I fealt FastLearner had overstepped his bounds in his last critisicm. By that I mean he directly attacked Investors, Matalino, and Ricdic; rather than making or expressing any valid points about the Corporation or venture itself. I've read and understood the different faults he has with it in the three different threads that discuss DATAC, and while I don't agree with them, they are valid in many ways. However attacking the investors as ignorant or gullible, and Matalino/Ricdic as perhaps evil masterminds, serves no purpose other than starting a flame war.
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:24:00 - [156] Originally by: Matalino There will not be a sales thread, as I expect the shares to sell out so fast that there is no point on creating a seperate thread. Come 23:30 on Oct 25, just send the ISK directly to Datacore Harvesting and hope that you are the first. If you are more than a few minutes late, check this thread first. Because there have been several people who have said that they intend to buy out the whole thing, I would not be suprised if it was all done and over with by 23:35. You do realize what this could sound like don't you? If several people have said they were going to buy out the whole amount and you have 5 people sending in that amount and hundreds of others sending in other large amounts you could end up with literally hundreds of billions of isk. What assurances are there that you are going to send back the ISK of people who didn't make it in time? This whole IPO (which sounds very promising) could have been concocted to bring us all to just this point where you get all the ISK and say ta-ta.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:34:00 - [157] Originally by: Fitz VonHeise You do realize what this could sound like don't you? If several people have said they were going to buy out the whole amount and you have 5 people sending in that amount and hundreds of others sending in other large amounts you could end up with literally hundreds of billions of isk. What assurances are there that you are going to send back the ISK of people who didn't make it in time? This whole IPO (which sounds very promising) could have been concocted to bring us all to just this point where you get all the ISK and say ta-ta. The tinfoil hat theorem is strong with this one. I get what you are saying Fitz, and I do agree that Matalino is a smart bloke but really. If he has managed to mastermind my involvement, my partial purchase, my sticking up without pointing out the blindingly obvious, my backing a potential change involving higher funds that was brought about by a non-investor (Shadarle's) discontent, and resulting in a 5 page discussion, aka epeen contest. Anyway, all this leads up to the conclusion that this IPO was structured in Tiers in the express knowledge that each would be highly sought after, and Matalino would walk away with 750 billion isk. This is only a small offering this one. He may get 6b when he only needs 2b. If you feel uncomfortable by this I am happy to work as a trustee for the transfer, but please be advised that if anyone advises this was my master plan, to fake this IPO through an alt, and then under the guise of a security run off with excess funds obtained through coersion and poor communication, thus pulling the ultimate scam of 6-7b, then I will hire KIA to kick their asses. Need Empire Research Slots. Click here
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 18:34:00 - [158] Originally by: Fitz VonHeise What assurances are there that you are going to send back the ISK of people who didn't make it in time? This whole IPO (which sounds very promising) could have been concocted to bring us all to just this point where you get all the ISK and say ta-ta. -There is the assurance given that I will do what I have already done with the last batch, which is return the excess ISK. -There is the assurance that if I were to turn scam, then I would not be able to raise the ISK that I need for later phases. -Then the final assurance, is that if I could show you the business plan with the level of detail that Ricdic has seen, you would know that proceeding as planned is far more profitable for me than turning a scam. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2007.10.24 19:53:00 - [159] Originally by: Ricdic This is only a small offering this one. He may get 6b when he only needs 2b. My bad... thought it was 25b he needed. (must learn to read more closely) Originally by: Matalino I have this really bad habbit of being perfectly honest. And that is a great habit to have...
Charin Drakot	Posted - 2007.10.24 20:03:00 - [160] (First time posting in the market forms, been lurking around for a bit) I'll just toss my 2 cents in on this. When I first read Matalino's post I was rather intrigued and decided to invest. However, I was a little behind the power curve and didn't realize at the time that the 2nd wave of shares had all ready sold out (my fault for not reading all the way to the end of the tread at the time). Never the less, once Matalino did see my funds in the DATAC wallet, he sent them back to me.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.24 23:11:00 - [161] It has come to my attention that there was a typo in some of the places where I had stated the time when the shares would be available for purchase. The correct time is 23:30 on Oct 25. I beleive that I have corrected all of the places where the typo had occured, but if you see any more, please let me know. Once again, the shares will be available at 23:30 tomorrow. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.25 06:18:00 - [162] Originally by: Matalino At this point I am unsure of how investors feel about the basic principle (aside from any detailed proposal) behind the change in the financing plans. I donÆt know how many investors are interested in potentially volatile returns verse how many are only interested in the originally planned fixed returns. So far the most vocal input in the discussion has been largely academic, as the comments come from those who would not invest under either or any financing model. Had I not been contacted in-game by at least one investor saying that he was most interested in the possibilities that such a change could offer, I would probably just shelve the whole thing and stick with the original plan, as that is by far the most profitable for myself. [/b] I haven't been active in your other threads, but I've definitely been paying attention, and have actually put a lot of thought into how I'm going to vote my shares on each issue. Though I don't think I own enough shares to sway the vote either way, I have no problem telling you in advance how I'm going to vote. It's hard to argue with the new payment model you've proposed. As a stand-alone issue, it's a no-brainer for me: YES. However, I'm still a little troubled by the fact that it's fate is tied to outcome of the expansion vote. The relationship between the two is not obvious to me, unless you're dangling the new payment model in some form of "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" proposition, with you being the largest beneficiary of the expansion, and your investors potentially (and probably) being the largest beneficiaries of the new payment model. Here's what troubles me about the expansion, from a completely personal perspective: I've recently redirected the bulk of my liquid assets into a new project of my own. As a result, I'm scaling down additional investments for the time being, until I can determine how much ISK I can efficiently put to work for myself. Though I'll certainly have the odd few hundred million to throw at your existing investment as new batches come available, I don't see myself being a large-scale investor in your expansion. Whats my point? Effectively, your expansion does not benefit me at all. In fact, it dilutes the value of my original investment and any subsequent investments I make in your existing offering by increasing the supply datacores and in essence driving their value down. How far down? Dunno - Perhaps an insignificant amount. But down indeed. My research has been painfully limited, and I don't doubt that you've researched it far more completely yourself, but my very basic and preliminary conclusion is that if you do expand this operation to 144 characters, your datacore production will account for 5-10% of The Forge market's total traded volume. Because the traded volume is inflated by... uh... traders (meaning "not end-users"), you'd actually account for an even greater percentage of increased datacore supply. I realize there are other markets, and no I did not check them. But I definitely have to assume that The Forge is the big daddy when it comes to datacores. It occurred to me that I might vote "YES" on the expansion, just so I could then vote "YES" on the new payment model. But I've decided to keep the two issues separate, as you originally introduced them, and to vote honestly on each. I'll be voting "NO" on the expansion. If it passes anyway, I'll be voting "YES" on the new payment model. Mat, thanks for the honest and thoughtful posts, as always. You continue to impress. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2007.10.25 06:36:00 - [163] It occurred to me after posting that I've been assuming approvals on both the expansion and the new payment system as a forgone conclusion. I realize that approval of the expansion and a defeat of the new payment model would not dilute my original investment because I'd still be drawing my fixed rate (unless prices dropped below the 600k redline, which I don't see as likely). Approval on both could result in dilution of datacore value, but would probably net more on my investment anyway. This investment hurts my brain, but I'm still diggin' it. Blacktag - Buy ships / Fittings / Drones / Ammo in BULK with Delivery!
Mr Horizontal Gallente Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2007.10.25 09:17:00 - [164] Quick question: When the 24 week deadline comes and goes, what will happen to the 24 accounts you've created? A lot of work will have gone into increasing their standings, and then you won't have enough ISK to maintain the GTC's (unless you have a secret pile somewhere to maintain them). If you are planning on terminating them or selling the accounts on the boards, then would you consider that a set shareholding of for example, 400m, would 'guarantee' one of these accounts? Or would you prefer a fire-sale at the end? Either way, I see a potential back-market for these assets, provided a reasonable price can be considered. On another note, FastLearner may have pointed out this is an unsecured loan, but in fact it's one of the few high-risk investments that have existed in what is very much a blue-chip and steady eddy market (neglecting the scams ofc). Ideally though it should be a profit-sharing scheme, and not a fixed return. If you do super well, I want to be part of it! If you don't and the GTC / Datacore market goes belly up, then I've lost ISK - but that's the spirit of speculation and 'true' high-risk investments: returns can be less as well as more, so long as the potential for more is a shedload more Regardless, because this is a unique proposition and IMO quite sound, I'm in all the way regardless of the accounts if I can get my mitts on some of those shares.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:14:00 - [165] The datacore producing characters will not be sold. If you know anything about the sale of characters, then you'd know that the seller has to pay a $20 fee per character. At a potential 144 characters, that's potentially $2,880 in fees for them all. No amount of ISK generated is worth that kind of price. I don't know why people keep suggesting that he's going to make boatloads of ISK when it's all done by selling the characters off.
Oron	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:38:00 - [166] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan I don't know why people keep suggesting that he's going to make boatloads of ISK when it's all done by selling the characters off. No, If I would be him I would't sell them. At this time, the characters should pay them self - remember they should even generate a profit wich is payed out. This is a 145 char money printing farm as long as he like to keep it running. I am not really into research, but I heared rummors that even deactivated accounts accumulate RP.
Shinhan Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.10.25 11:40:00 - [167] GTCs for their continued use will be part of operating expenses, dunno whats the problem there. Besides, its not like the chars need to be active in order to accumulate RPs. AS for selling characters, why would he do that? At the end of this IPO/Bond/Loan/whatever, he will be left with no profit but with a lot of trained characters. From the end of the IPO (when he pays out last ISK according to old idea or December 2008 according to new idea) onward he just has to activate them from time to time in order to harvest the accumulated RP's and he will have a steady cash cow forever. -- Selling apples, 1 signature each. ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.25 12:01:00 - [168] Edited by: Kirjava on 25/10/2007 12:02:20 I like the business plan very much. I am fairly new to the IPO business but this is the one I have had my eye on since you announced it. Unfortuatly at the moment I cannot afford to invest, but in future releases I will be able to fork out for shares. Good luck with the idea - I suppose you must run an Internet Cafe or something in RL to have so many spare PC's running clients in your gang For buying the shares though will you be using a third party to hold isk? It's nothing personal but until I have done a transaction or two smoothly with a person I err on the side of caution Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.10.25 15:12:00 - [169] Originally by: Kirjava Edited by: Kirjava on 25/10/2007 12:02:20 I like the business plan very much. I am fairly new to the IPO business but this is the one I have had my eye on since you announced it. Unfortuatly at the moment I cannot afford to invest, but in future releases I will be able to fork out for shares. Good luck with the idea - I suppose you must run an Internet Cafe or something in RL to have so many spare PC's running clients in your gang For buying the shares though will you be using a third party to hold isk? It's nothing personal but until I have done a transaction or two smoothly with a person I err on the side of caution While I doubt he'd have a problem with using a trusted third part to handle the transfer, the problem lies in the timing of it. I suspect there's going to be a mad dash for his next batch of shares, which he's giving out in order of transactions received to his wallet, and he doesn't accept reservations on shares. Diverting from that stated method on handing out shares by making an exception opens up other people saying "why what can't I have x exception, too?" But I of course don't speak for him, and he can do what he wants. For what it's worth, I bought 5000 shares (520m or so worth) from his first released batch, and didn't have a problem in receiving them.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.25 16:55:00 - [170] Edited by: Matalino on 25/10/2007 17:01:15 Regarding the expansion: The original plan has huge margins of error built into it for safety. Primarily I had done this to protect myself, as I was holding the responsiblity to make sure that investors would get paid. The reality is that even though I have and continue to state publicly that 600K is the minimum DC price that I need to keep afloat, I can keep this venture viable under much lower prices. I just don't know exactly how low I can go because there are to many variables to calculate everything. Because, I allow multiple safety nets in my estimations, I set 600K as the official and secure benchmark. While monitoring and updating the projections, I saw that if I expanded the corp by 2x I could increase my revenues 3x. However, it would only work if the expansion happened now. The increased revenues would then be used to secure investors against lower DC prices in the event of market failure, or provide myself with added profits if the market remains strong. That is why there is a vote to expand now, and why I do not think that it should be delayed. This was not included in the original proposal for expansion because it was not and has still not been finalized. I still need to present the details to Ricdic before it becomes officially part of the plan. At this point officially the expansion will only double revenues, but I fully expect that it will tripple revenues. Regarding the connection to financing: Now looking at the financing in general: to make any recommendations in this area, I need to model out revenues more than a year in advance. There are a lot of variables, so I must make some simplifying assumptions. When making assumptions and simplifactions, I error on the side of caution. When discussing the proposed financing, the base that I used for my model assumed that the expansion would go through and that I would be able to take advantage of that opportunity to increase the revenue to debt ratio by 50%. Without that favorable improvement in the revenue to debt ratio, I might not be able to make a proposal that would be desirable to investors. That is why I stated that the change in financing was dependant on the expansion. If the expansion does not go through, there is still the possiblity to change the financing model. However, any of the estimates discussed in that earlier thread would be void. I would need to recalculate new estimates under the current structure. I see no reason to make those calculations and refinements, until after the expansion has been rejected. Because the expansion could have such a huge effect on possible financing options, any detailed calculations regarding financing must wait until that issue is settled one way or another. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.25 16:56:00 - [171] Regarding dilution of shares: As you pointed out, under the current financing there can be no dilution of returns as every share will receive 4% bi-weekly returns. This is set and fixed regardless of how many shares there are. What can be affected is the risk of failure to meet those returns. If the expansion goes through along with the increased revenues, it would have the effect of increasing the viablity (by better ensuring the promised returns can be paid) of earlier shares, not destablising them, as the revenues per share could be increased by 50% if all goes according to my expectations. If the financing is also changed this would further concentrate the value of earlier shares because speculation regarding the potential value of the shares will drive the share price higher than the standardized baseline, increasing the resale value of the shares while also decreasing the number of competing shares that will be issued. Just because the shares exist, does not mean that they will be sold to the public. The shares need to exist to endure that the corp can raise the ISK that it needs to operate without repeated votes to be approved by share holders. Once the corp is fully self-sustaining and there was no longer a forseeable need to sell any more shares, shareholders will have the option to vote to complete a stock split to redistrubute the existing shares such that shareholders holdings are not diluted further. However, that vote is still several months away, and there is not point on projecting how it will unfold until we can see market conditions at that time. The basic priciple of operation remains in effect: only the minimum number of shares will be sold. Regarding the fate of the characters My salary always has been, and I expect that it always will be, the actual characters. I have stated why they cannot be sold: I don't have the cash to do so. Because there has never been the possiblity to transfer the characters, and at some point I want to be free of my commitments to the public, ownership of the characters and their revenues upon completion of the public phase of the IPO has always seemed to me the most reasonable salary. This is one area, in which I do not believe there to be any room for negotiation, as I cannot picture any other way that events can unfold. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.25 16:56:00 - [172] Regarding the use of third parties for share purchases The short answer is that there could be no added security by using a third party, because ultimately if I cannot be trusted the shares have no value at all. However, if you want to use a third party it is up to you to arrange it. Your third party would need to purchase shares just like everyone else. The only purpose that I can think of for using a third party to make the purchase, is that you might not be able to log on at 23:30 today to make the purchase yourself. Regarding the transfer of ISK and shares I have structured Datacore Harvesting's divisional wallets such that the only use for the main wallet is the sale of shares. All of the transactions on that wallet are related to the purchase of shares. Other transactions and operating capital are handled or stored on the other wallets. This makes it very simple to track orders and refunds. This is why I instist that all transactions go through the corp. It makes it easy for myself to see who has ordered what, and it makes it easy for the Board if they feel the need to audit the share distribution. If I receive ISK that was sent from a corporate wallet, I will always send the shares/ISK back to the character, not the corporation, that made the transfer. The reason for this policy is that I have no way to send shares/ISK to anything but another corp's master wallet. I have no way to ensure that the shares/ISK should be sent to the corporations master wallet, or that the character who placed the order has access to that wallet to transfer the shares/ISK to the correct wallet. As such, shares/ISK will always be sent to the character making the transfer, never to the corp, as a character will always have access to his own wallet and can transfer the shares/ISK from there to where ever they should be. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.25 17:13:00 - [173] I started reading but there is a ton of info there. I will read it properly in the morning when things don't seem so blurry.
Mr Horizontal Gallente Brotherhood of Wolves	Posted - 2007.10.25 17:54:00 - [174] Originally by: Matalino Regarding the fate of the characters My salary always has been, and I expect that it always will be, the actual characters. That's cool
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.25 22:13:00 - [175] Edited by: Matalino on 25/10/2007 22:15:53 BTW - I just remembered that I need to pick my car up at the shop after work today, so I might be a few minutes late getting home. I will try to get home as fast as I can. However, if someone does buy out the entire block of shares, and I am not online (I will be using the character DC CEO), it would be nice of you to post saying that you have infact done so, so that people are not sending ISK needlessly. For those tinfoil hat folk, who think that someone might post here just to make people think that it has sold out when it really hasn't, go ahead and send your ISK anyways. Shares will be sold based on when it is received, not when/if people post on the forums. I am only making this announcement so that people will know why I might not be online at 23:30. Once again, sorry if this causes more confusion than it prevents. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2007.10.25 22:26:00 - [176] Edited by: Kirjava on 25/10/2007 22:28:03 Never mind. Originally by: CCP Morpheus Post with your alt.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.25 23:32:00 - [177] Looks like the people who wanted to buy out the batch were able to get online. It will take me a few minutes to sort out who the winners were. My appolgies to all those who were not able to get in this time. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Shiva Shakti Gallente Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.25 23:39:00 - [178] Sent some isk ...soz about strange amount of isk, some stupid default, round it up/down to nearest convenient number plz but I did choose to be in Jita for first time in a month so its my own fault :o Visit EvE Galactic Stock Exchange and Real-time Eve Stock Exchange (in game or out, but trades in game)
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.26 00:07:00 - [179] Originally by: Shiva Shakti ...soz about strange amount of isk, some stupid default, round it up/down to nearest convenient number plz I have seen a strange bug where if you sell something, the wallet will only allow you to transfer ISK up to your old balance before the item was sold. It is like the ISK transfer window is caching the wrong balance somewhere. Completing another transaction fixes it, but I could see how it would ruin your chances to win in a race like this. You could file a bug report if that is what happened to you. However that will unfortunately not help in this specific case. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.26 00:08:00 - [180] Edited by: Matalino on 26/10/2007 00:10:20 The shares have been sent and ISK returned. Thank you to all for your interest and support in this venture. For those interested in the next batch of shares, I need to wait until the results are in from the expansion vote before I will know how and when that will proceed. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.26 00:36:00 - [181] Edited by: Matalino on 26/10/2007 00:41:44 I just noticed that two people did not follow the instructions to send the ISK to the corp. Instead they sent it to my character. Their ISK has now been returned as well. Looking at the transaction ID's for those two transfers, one of those two would have appeared as the first order had he sent it to the correct location. It is important to follow instructions. All ISK for share purchases will always need to be sent to the corp [DATAC] Datacore Harvesting. I had hoped that the one slip up in the previous batch would have cleared that up. Appearently not. Hopefully the knowledge that this time someone lost out on a significant (would have been 33% of the shares) purchase because he did not follow instructions will serve as a better warning. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.10.30 02:59:00 - [182] The vote to expand has concluded. The result was in favor of expansion, so that plan will proceed. I hope to post the finalized details of the proposed financing in two days. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Surius	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:24:00 - [183] How do you handle the exhausting amount of time it requires to get from agent to agent when you do the collecting of the datacores? I have my own three characters collecting datacores and just between them it can take upwards of 4 hours to collect them all even with warp to zero.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.01 16:37:00 - [184] Originally by: Surius How do you handle the exhausting amount of time it requires to get from agent to agent when you do the collecting of the datacores? I have my own three characters collecting datacores and just between them it can take upwards of 4 hours to collect them all even with warp to zero. I have a special little trick in mind, but I would rather not give away all of my secrets. If you think about it for a little while, you should be able to figure out how to jump across the galaxy instantly. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.06 16:50:00 - [185] The prospectus, including the Q&A section, has been updated to reflect the recent votes that have passed. I have removed one of the questions from the Q&A section as I believe that it is no longer relevant. Originally by: Matalino Sounds like you have planned carefully for a worst-case scenario. What happens if everything works out better than expected? Depending on how well things go, I will talk with the Board and see how we can continue to expand and/or offer higher returns to investors. However, keep in mind that I make no promises at this time that higher returns will be available. I will simply work with the Board to form the best business plan for everyone. We have made those arrangements, and I see no reason to make any further changes, as such this item has been removed from the original Q&A. The course is set, and I do not expect to have any issues to deal with in the near future. The next expected item of business will most likely be a stock split sometime in March or April. In the very likely event that there is no need to sell all of the shares, I will propose the creation of shares to complete a stock split so that the investment of shareholders is not diluted by the needless sale of shares. However that is still several months in the future. Now back to daily operations... ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.06 16:53:00 - [186] As I have said, this coming batch of shares is to be offered in the form of an auction. The easiest way that I could think to operate that auction is in the form of a price count down. So here is how it will work: I will start at a set price, each day I will lower that price by one notch. Anyone who wishes to purchase shares just needs to send the ISK to Datacore Harvesting, just like with the previous batches. Effective today, you can by shares for 160,103.22 ISK each. However, by purchasing at that price you will be, in effect, giving up the base 4% bi-weekly return that you should be earning between now and March 22. At that price, your first profit on the investment will be the 4% return earned with the April 5 dividend. Do I seriously expect people to give up 5 months of interest to purchase at that price? No, of course not, I expect them to wait until the price drops to something more reasonable. Each person will have their own opinion on what that will be. Those who are willing to give up more of their returns will be able to secure shares for themselves before those who want to ensure that they get their full return. If you wait on your purchase until Nov 8, the price will drop to 153,945.41 per share, which is the reference share price for Mar 8. The share price will continue drop until I have sold enough shares to raise the capital that I need for the next couple of weeks. Once that captial has been raise, the auction will be halted and a new auction following this pattern started to raise the ISK needed for the following few weeks. The full price count down will proceed as follows: Nov 07: 160,103.22 Nov 08: 153,945.41 Nov 09: 148,024.43 Nov 10: 142,331.18 Nov 11: 136,856.91 Nov 12: 131,593.18 Nov 13: 126,531.90 Nov 14: 121,665.29 Nov 15: 116,985.86 Nov 16: 112,486.40 The price change will go into effect at 00:00 each day, so simply look at the date in-game to see which price you will pay. The shares will be sold on a first-come first-served basis until 7.8 billion in shares have been sold. I will update this thread with the details of how the auction is proceeding. I have created a thread in the Sell Orders forum regarding the sales of these shares. If you have any questions related to the sale of shares, please post in that thread. This thread is reserved for discussion of the business itself. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
FastLearner Fury Holdings Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:41:00 - [187] You may wish to update the link in your post - it currently points to the Sales forum, not to your actual thread. correct url is: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=630738
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.06 17:48:00 - [188] Originally by: FastLearner You may wish to update the link in your post - it currently points to the Sales forum, not to your actual thread. correct url is: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=630738 Thanks, all fixed now. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Soren PAK	Posted - 2007.11.07 01:39:00 - [189] Originally by: Matalino The shares will be sold on a first-come first-served basis until 7.8 billion in shares have been sold. So if no shares sell till the 16th, then more shares will be sold then if they're all sold on the 7th? Should you have used a set amount of shares instead of isk? ☠-->-->--
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 03:53:00 - [190] Originally by: Soren So if no shares sell till the 16th, then more shares will be sold then if they're all sold on the 7th? Correct, the later the shares are bought the more that will be sold, the higher the price paid for each share the few share that will be sold. Originally by: Soren Should you have used a set amount of shares instead of isk? The objective is to raise a set amount of ISK. I don't need more than that so I have no reason to sell more shares than is needed to raise that amount of ISK. Selling few shares is good for me and for existing investors. It benifits me because I will have less debt and will be able to reach the target return sooner. It is better fo existing investors because the fewer shares that are sold the sooner the target returns will be met and the more valuable their shares will be when the bonus dividends begin. It is in the interest of new investors to pay as little a possible and get as many shares as possible. However, they will be in competition with each other as some might be willing to pay more in order to secure the shares, where as those who wait until the price is lower might find that the shares have sold out. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.07 04:49:00 - [191] An interesting way of doing it, leaving it up to personal evaluation on how early they're willing to jump on the boat, rather than a mad dash within 40 seconds of a certain time. I like the idea.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 05:14:00 - [192] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan An interesting way of doing it, leaving it up to personal evaluation on how early they're willing to jump on the boat, rather than a mad dash within 40 seconds of a certain time. I like the idea. Thank you. I think that this system pulls in the best of both worlds. The accounting is simple just like the original: I just download the wallet from the API and see who gets what. It also lessens the mad dash. While the mad dash can still exist where people all want to jump in when the press drops to a level where more than one person wants to buy out the lot, it is far less intense as more likely people will by in at different intervals depending on their own evaluation of the stocks value. The other interesting factor, is that with the bonus dividends, the higher the price paid for a share, the few shares that will be issued, the greater the long term returns on each share. This secondary effect is too complex for me to work out in great detail to figure out exactly how much it can be worth paying for a share. but basicly the higher Datacore prices remain, the more each share is worth. Because it is high risk investment, and therefore impossible to project with suffiecent certainty, I will continue to recommend that people follow the original share price schedule. However, it is certainly possible to get a worth while return even on higher priced shares if Datacore prices remain strong. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Dei Amarr Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.11.07 11:19:00 - [193] Are you going to update anything here to say how much isk is left to be raised, or do we have to guess? --- The true master paralyses his opponent, leaving him vulnerable to attack
F90OEX	Posted - 2007.11.07 13:07:00 - [194] I'm interested, but I don't I will be playing EVE in 2009 lol Actually its the 1st IPO I have had any real interest investing a few bil isk into and seeing what happens. Kinda like going to vegas ..
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 15:14:00 - [195] Originally by: Dei Are you going to update anything here to say how much isk is left to be raised, or do we have to guess? I will post updates in the sales thread. As of last night there was nothing to say. As I had expected people are waiting for the price to drop. As of this morning there is only one order. However, it appears that the person placing that order did not read the instructions as the comment on his transaction reads, "1250 Shares @ 104,000.00". No shares will be sold at that price, so I need to contact him in game to find out if he wants his ISK back or if he wants to pay 160,103.22 per share. Do keep an eye in the sales thread for updates as that is where I will post sales related updates. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:06:00 - [196] Originally by: Matalino This secondary effect is too complex for me to work out in great detail to figure out exactly how much it can be worth paying for a share. but basicly the higher Datacore prices remain, the more each share is worth. Well that is convienent...you can't tell someone how much to expect in profit. I think you are playing too many games to get people to invest. Of course the more complex and complicated you make it to know the expected return, the easier for you to scam your investors.... Will be interesting to see who makes the first OP about not getting a dividend next spring....
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 17:23:00 - [197] Edited by: Matalino on 07/11/2007 17:24:32 Originally by: Atherin Gaius Originally by: Matalino This secondary effect is too complex for me to work out in great detail to figure out exactly how much it can be worth paying for a share. but basicly the higher Datacore prices remain, the more each share is worth. Well that is convienent...you can't tell someone how much to expect in profit. I think you are playing too many games to get people to invest. Of course the more complex and complicated you make it to know the expected return, the easier for you to scam your investors.... Will be interesting to see who makes the first OP about not getting a dividend next spring.... Sure, I can tell you how much profit you can expect. All I need to know is: 1) Price of GTC's and how it will change each week between now and July 2009 2) Datacore prices and how they will change each week between now and July 2009 3) How many shares people are willing to buy and how much they will pay for those shares between now and April 2008 If you can provide me with all of that information I would be happy to forecast profits. When I said that it was too complex to forecast, it was because each of those factors is variable and has a chaotic* effect on the profits that will be available. There is no need to wear a tin-foil hat, I am not messing with peoples heads. I am simply stating things as I see them. Profits are dependant on how high Datacore prices will be and how low GTC prices stay. The number of shares that I sell has no effect on revenues. However, if there are fewer shares splitting those profits, each share will get more profits. Simple enough in princple, but to forecast exactly how much those profits will be, I would need to know all of the above information as a small difference in those assumptions will drasticly effect the results. what I ment by chaotic, is that a small change early on can have a huge effect on later profits. ************************* Datacore Harvesting IPO
Havok Pierce Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.07 18:37:00 - [198] Pass me 1250 shares, isk sent. Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 18:47:00 - [199] Originally by: Havok Pierce Pass me 1250 shares, isk sent. Have you read the instructions in the sales thread? You have only sent enough ISK to purchase 811 shares. The current price is 160,103.22 ISK per share. Currently I am at work so I am unable to log in to the game right now. I verified your transaction through the API. I will process your order when I get home. If you wish to purchase the shares at a lower price, I can return the ISK so that you can resend it on the proper date. However, I will not be selling shares at 104,000 ISK. That price has passed. The lowest possible price at this point is 112,486.40 ISK per share, but I would be suprised if the shares have not sold out before that price is reached. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.07 21:10:00 - [200] Originally by: Atherin Gaius Originally by: Matalino This secondary effect is too complex for me to work out in great detail to figure out exactly how much it can be worth paying for a share. but basicly the higher Datacore prices remain, the more each share is worth. Well that is convienent...you can't tell someone how much to expect in profit. I think you are playing too many games to get people to invest. Of course the more complex and complicated you make it to know the expected return, the easier for you to scam your investors.... Will be interesting to see who makes the first OP about not getting a dividend next spring.... If you don't like it, then don't invest. I believe that there will be plenty of others who will be more than happy to have more shares. Just because you can't understand something, doesn't mean it's being intentionally made to complicated in an attempt to scam the EVE community. I myself much doubt that it's a scam, I've invested over half a billion ISK into it and contemplating more, though probably by the time I get over whether or not I want to it will be all sold out, but that's ok too. And to be honest, if it did end up being a scam, I'd say he's put in the work and effort to effectively engineer a scam based on a really good legitimate plan, so I'd feel like he earned it, no hards about it. You being simple does not = something a scam.
Atherin Gaius Caldari Domini Umbrus VENOM Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:04:00 - [201] I understand it quite fine. My degree is in business finance and I own two RW businesses and I won't be investing. The IPO/BOND/UNSECURED LOAN (whatever you want to call it) has changed multiple times since it came out. He post the Investement Opportunity on the forums with a plan for graduated share offerings with a increasing cost and decreasing risk format, people start reserving shares at the initial price and then we find out that the initial share were all purchased pre launch. I have no problem that the inital offering was pre purchased by one person, i have a problem that it wasn't communicated initialy. Then the scope of the program doubles in size. Next they change the risk variables and icrease the risk. (voted on by the share holders, creditors would be a better term though) Now he changes the way shares are purchased. I have nothing against Matalino, in fact I have money invested in his previous venture Ki-Tech. But I don't like how this opportunity is structured...and the frequency of change. I currently have 3mil privatly invested in one of my businesses and I know that if I made changes like this my investors would be a little nervous and I would be getting calls from them. I realize that this is virtual currency, but why shouldn't I look at this like I would business in the real world and be able to voice my concerns? I worked hard (or as hard as you can in a computer game) for my ISK and it is much easier for someone to walk off with it here than it is in the RW. So i will continue to be a sceptic of business opportunities no matter what you call me. Matalino answered my concerns, like he has done to all my posts, which is what I wanted him to do, unlike you that just resorts to calling me simple.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.07 23:43:00 - [202] Edited by: Matalino on 07/11/2007 23:43:23 Originally by: Atherin Gaius Then the scope of the program doubles in size. The original business plan actually called for this size. It was halved in size prior to release under Ricdic recommendation. As I am still new to the market and he was not certain if the larger operation would be supported. Demand has indicated that people would like a larger opportunity to invest, so the project was returned to its original size. Originally by: Atherin Gaius Next they change the risk variables and icrease the risk. (voted on by the share holders, creditors would be a better term though) This change was suggested by potential investors, then driven may actual investors. Had they not requested this change, I would not have proposed it. Even when making the proposal, I made a significant effort to keep as much of the original plan as unchanged as possible. This change was approved by shareholders without any opposition. Originally by: Atherin Gaius Now he changes the way shares are purchased. There has been a small change here. I am now allowing people to pay more than the recommended share price if they choose to do so. This will break up the rush to purchase shares while increasing the potential returns for existing investors. If future investors refuse to pay more than the recommended share price, then there is no effective change to the share distribution. Originally by: Atherin Gaius But I don't like how this opportunity is structured...and the frequency of change. I am sorry to hear that you do not like the structure of this offering. However, because I too dislike change, I will not be concidering any other changes to the structure of this offering. I have already surpassed myown tolerence for change. Originally by: Atherin Gaius Matalino answered my concerns, like he has done to all my posts. I try to focus on solutions rather than name calling, as I find that keeps things moving in a possitive direction. I hope that this helps to further resolve any concerns that you might have. If there is anything that I can do to further assist you in evaluating this venture, feel free to contact me in-game. If you still choose not to invest, I will respect that decision. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Sikozu Prioris Suns Of Korhal	Posted - 2007.11.08 00:19:00 - [203] Matalino's approach to the sale of shares for this batch is genious. I am an investor in both his IPO's and luckily for me I seem to online the same kinda of times as him so I got shares before they all sold out. He judged by the rush to buy his shares that a more fair system was needed for those people not around when the sale went live, so to speak, and imo he has found the perfect solution. "A enemy fleet emerges from the shadows" - What shadows!?! We're in ****ing space for gods sake
Havok Pierce Gallente D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.11.08 02:24:00 - [204] Edited by: Havok Pierce on 08/11/2007 02:24:57 Originally by: Matalino Edited by: Matalino on 08/11/2007 00:41:30 Originally by: Havok Pierce Pass me 1250 shares, isk sent. Have you read the instructions in the sales thread? You have only sent enough ISK to purchase 811 shares. The current price is 160,103.22 ISK per share. Currently I am at work so I am unable to log in to the game right now. I verified your transaction through the API. I will process your order when I get home. If you wish to purchase the shares at a lower price, I can return the ISK so that you can resend it on the proper date. However, I will not be selling shares at 104,000 ISK. That price has passed. The lowest possible price at this point is 112,486.40 ISK per share, but I would be suprised if the shares have not sold out before that price is reached. Update - I have gotten home from work, and have returned your ISK. I had prepared an Evemail explaining why I am not able to sell the shares for 104,000 ISK, however, due to your setting the CSPA fee to 1,000,000 ISK I was not able to send it. If you have any further questions regarding how the shares are priced, feel free to contact me in-game or on the forums. I am sorry for the inconvience, and do hope that you are still interested with investing. My apologies, I misread (like a complete noob, only read the discussion thread's opening post sets). And the CSPA fee is at 1m isk because, well, I'm damn tired of ISK seller spam. I am still interested in investing, and am perfectly happy with purchasing shares at the current price-point. EDIT: And I'll add the corp in question to my allowed list. Originally by: CCP Wrangler There's a Community petition category??
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.08 03:13:00 - [205] Originally by: Havok Pierce I am still interested in investing, and am perfectly happy with purchasing shares at the current price-point. In that case, wait until you think the price is right then jump in by sending the ISK just like before. At this point I really have no idea what price the shares will sell out at, so I can't really offer any further advice. However, I will update the sales thread as it progresses. Originally by: Havok Pierce And I'll add the corp in question to my allowed list. You just need to add this character (Matalino) to the allowed list as he will be my primary point of contact. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.14 17:44:00 - [206] I have a few minutes of free time at work today, so I thought to take some time to provide an interim progress updated. The sale of shares continues at a modest pace. With the staggered pricing the panic rush to purchase has been effectively broken up, and I feel that all those who wish to invest have been given a fair chance to do so. There are still plenty of shares available in this batch. Unless there is a sudden spike in purchasing during the next 36 hours, there will most likely be shares available at the reference price effective Nov 16. Purchasing at the reference price will provide the full 4% bi-weekly return on your investment. The first batch of characters is coming along nicely. By the end of the week I expect to have the first few characters begin collecting RP. While it will only be approx 5% of our target volumes, with datacore prices where they are, we would already be at 15% of our target revenues. Considering that the original budget did not assume any income until March, even this small amount puts us well above our targets. I have also been watching the GTC market. There has been a notable price increase over the past month. Prices of 200-220M appear to be the norm. Because this is approaching the originally defined price of 240M, I felt it prudent to run some forecasts of the corp's requirements should GTC prices exceed that mark. Just as I had stated that with GTC/DC prices at 240M/600K we could safely meet our target return of 4% bi-weekly interest along with complete repayment of the initial investment by July 2009, we will still be able to meet that target return with GTC/DC prices of 300M/650K. Lest people be concerned that I am still making changes, I am not changing any aspect of the business by making this statement. I am simply providing investors with an additional frame of reference, so that they can make informed decisions. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:08:00 - [207] Dunno how you're going to manage to get all those standings without going insane. I've been going nuts just trying to get standings up for 2 alts. That's commitment to do it with all those characters. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:46:00 - [208] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan Dunno how you're going to manage to get all those standings without going insane. I've been going nuts just trying to get standings up for 2 alts. That's commitment to do it with all those characters. That is why I think that this IPO will be such a success. Nobody else is willing to put in the effort to get the standings needed. By the time enough people have ramped up the standings to compete with me, I hope to have repaid my investors. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation	Posted - 2007.11.14 18:50:00 - [209] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Minerva Vulcan Dunno how you're going to manage to get all those standings without going insane. I've been going nuts just trying to get standings up for 2 alts. That's commitment to do it with all those characters. That is why I think that this IPO will be such a success. Nobody else is willing to put in the effort to get the standings needed. By the time enough people have ramped up the standings to compete with me, I hope to have repaid my investors. And the reason I'm thinking of investing more. ;) _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Jaarlax Ratty Corp PLC Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:08:00 - [210] isk for 15000 shares at todays price sent
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.14 19:56:00 - [211] Originally by: Jaarlax isk for 15000 shares at todays price sent Originally by: Matalino All ISK for share purchases will always need to be sent to the corp [DATAC] Datacore Harvesting. When I get home from work, I will return your ISK so that you can resend it to the correct wallet. On the upside, by the time I get home and can return your ISK, the next price drop will have gone into effect. On the downside, if the shares are sold out by that time, I will not be able to process your order based on when you had sent ISK to my character. Fortunately, it does not appear likely at this point that the shares will sell out that fast. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Ezoran DuBlaidd Rivers Enterprises Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:11:00 - [212] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Jaarlax isk for 15000 shares at todays price sent Originally by: Matalino All ISK for share purchases will always need to be sent to the corp [DATAC] Datacore Harvesting. When I get home from work, I will return your ISK so that you can resend it to the correct wallet. On the upside, by the time I get home and can return your ISK, the next price drop will have gone into effect. On the downside, if the shares are sold out by that time, I will not be able to process your order based on when you had sent ISK to my character. Fortunately, it does not appear likely at this point that the shares will sell out that fast. check the supposed GHSC post. solid liquid
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:23:00 - [213] Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd check the supposed GHSC post. I am sorry, but I don't understand what you are trying to say. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
tornpain	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:45:00 - [214] Edited by: tornpain on 14/11/2007 20:47:53 There's a trick to the standings grind, as he's mentioned. I suspect he's optimized the method I only recently became aware of through leveraging the many accounts he will have access to. Why are prices based off of 30day GTCs instead of 90d? The GHSC post is here, I suspect: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=636652 edit: oh, it's locked for fake tho ^_^ I don't see the relevance as I don't see a substantial number of datacores in the loots? Unless Istvaan invests in IPOs...
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.14 20:55:00 - [215] Originally by: tornpain The GHSC post is here, I suspect: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=636652 edit: oh, it's locked for fake tho ^_^ I don't see the relevance as I don't see a substantial number of datacores in the loots? Unless Istvaan invests in IPOs... I don't see the relevance either. Given that Ezoran had quoted my instructions to send ISK to the corp instead of my character, he would seem to be implying that somehow GHSC is going to rob me. I am and always will be the only person with any access to that wallet and any other resources held by the corp. There is no risk of corp left. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Anastasia Heron Dark and Light inc. D-L	Posted - 2007.11.15 00:39:00 - [216] Just wanted to let you know that I've bought some shares already and will continue to do so through the price drops. Based on what I've been able to figure out this will be an extremely profitable business. Spreadsheets are your friends. Seriously, if everyone just sat down and crunched some numbers they'd realize what a cash cow this could be. I admire you for having the gumption to do all this. This is a ton of work for you at the outset, I'm sure. I'm glad to be a part of it as an investor.
Shinhan Phoenix Knights Dark Nebula Galactic Empire	Posted - 2007.11.15 09:32:00 - [217] I dont see the relevance of quoting the GHSC thread. Its obviously a fake, even the mods agree, and the goons are obviously having fun at everybody else's expense. -- Selling apples, 1 signature each. ѼѼѼѼѼѼѼ
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.15 15:56:00 - [218] Last night I got home from work to find that the internet was out in my area. As such I was unable to process any share purchases. Checking in this morning at work through the API, I found that we were exactly where I wanted to be as fair as share sales, as such, provided that their is no problems with processing the correction to Jaarlax's order, this batch has sold out. I will process those purchases tonight, provided that my internet connection is working again. At the end of the sales thread Dragoos Fist asked a question regarding how low prices will go. I did not wish to bump a thread in the Sell Orders forum when it has sold out, so I will answer that question here. With all of the batchs, the share price will only count down to the reference price. It will not drop any lower than that. All of the prices will be stated in the sales thread. In the case of this last batch, if it had not sold out, the price would have remained at 112,486.40 until it sold out. In the case of the next batch, the price will not go lower than 116,985.86 I expect to announce the next batch towards the end of next week. I want to wait until I see how my actual costs/revenues compare with my budgeted costs/revenues before setting the volume for the next batch. Pricing will follow the same count down as this time, it will just stop at 116,985.86 instead of 112,486.40. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Jaarlax Ratty Corp PLC Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.11.15 23:00:00 - [219] Edited by: Jaarlax on 15/11/2007 23:01:34 so i'll be getting my isk back soon then? (or are you able to transfer to the corp account) as it looks like they all sold and i dont have shares or isk can i get one or the other please
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.16 00:31:00 - [220] Originally by: Jaarlax Edited by: Jaarlax on 15/11/2007 23:01:34 so i'll be getting my isk back soon then? (or are you able to transfer to the corp account) as it looks like they all sold and i dont have shares or isk can i get one or the other please I will send you the shares as soon as I can get in. Internet was broken last night. I haven't gotten home yet, so I don't know if it is fixed or not. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Thaanvanite Minmatar ACCORD Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.16 01:31:00 - [221] damnit I new I shouldnt have waited a day to buy shares Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.16 15:57:00 - [222] Originally by: Thaanvanite damnit I new I shouldnt have waited a day to buy shares Well there will be another batch, but the price is unlikely to go as low. As a general update, my home internet is still down. My ISP is sending a tech to take a look at the lines tomorrow morning. Hopefully they will get it working then. Otherwise, I have been able to get online else where, long enough to keep skill training going. However, share distribution will need to wait until my home internet is back up and running. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.17 20:40:00 - [223] My internet is back up and running. Shares purchases have been processed. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Jaarlax Ratty Corp PLC Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2007.11.18 15:43:00 - [224] got em, thanks
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.23 02:36:00 - [225] The fifth batch of shares is now up for auction. I am currently working on a status update regarding this venture and plan to post it either Friday or Saturday. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Datacore Harvesting	Posted - 2007.11.23 17:11:00 - [226] Edited by: Matalino on 23/11/2007 17:13:12 Progress Report: 2007-11-23 With the Nov 17 batch of shares, I sold 61,376 shares leaving 339,624 shares in the corp's wallet and 140,376 shares out in the public. The total capital raised in that batch was 7,593,951,899.65 ISK. The average selling price of those shares was 123,728.36, which is 10% higher than the reference price. Had the shares been sold at the reference price 6,134 more shares would have needed to be issued. By issuing fewer shares, the profits will be more concentrated for those shares that have been issued. The first few characters are progressing nicely. Currently, I am accumulating sufficient RP for 75 datacores per day. However, it will still be a few weeks before I cash in those RP and begin selling datacores. While this is still only 7.5% of the target capacity that I plan to reach by June 2008, it will still provide a helpful subsidy to the startup costs of this project. After the current (Dec 01) batch of shares has been sold, another batch of shares be released with the countdown finishing Dec 15. I expect that batch will also aim to raise around 5.6 billion. The target capital for that (Dec 15) batch may still be adjusted further depending on where GTC and DC prices go, so it is not yet certain that will be the target amount. After the Dec 15 batch, there will be a break in share sales. The next batch after that would be for Jan 12. The size of that batch will be highly dependant on GTC and DC prices. If prices remain at their current levels, that batch will likely be somewhere around 2.4 billion, and there would be another ~7.2 billion raised in the later half of the month. If GTC prices remain stable and the release of Trinity causes datacore prices to return to their previous levels, shares might not be sold in 2008. Looking back on the market over the past month and a half, we have seen a ~10% increase in GTC prices, and a ~25% decrease in datacore prices. Obviously these changes in market conditions will decrease the profits of this venture. This correction of the market was expected. I hope to see a bounce back in datacore prices with the release of Trinity; however, even if we see such a bounce back, I do not expect it to last more than a month or two. Even the current prices cannot be sustained, and I expect that, in the long term, the market will continue to correct itself to find a more stable balance between GTC and DC prices. As I have stated before, this venture will remain securely viable down to DC/GTC prices of 600K/240M or 650K/300M. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Calgorac The Arrow Project Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.11.24 03:47:00 - [227] ttt Latest News
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.24 17:12:00 - [228] Thanks to Balogh, DATAC is now listed on the RESX. I have also submitted an appication for listing on the EGESx, but I am not clear on the process for getting brokers so I will leave it at that for now. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Thaanvanite Minmatar ACCORD Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:18:00 - [229] Isk for 110 shares sent Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Erimisha RED EYE DEV.	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:36:00 - [230] ISK sent for 200 shares at 11/24 prices
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:36:00 - [231] Originally by: Thaanvanite Isk for 110 shares sent Two problems with your order. 1) ISK must be sent to the corp Datacore Harvesting, not to Ki Tech Industries. 2) The current price for shares is 153,945.41 ISK per share. This will be reduced to 148,024.43 in a few hours. Please see the sales thread for more information on how the count down auction works. I have returned your ISK so that you can resubmit the order in the correct way when the auction had reached a price that you are happy with. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:39:00 - [232] Originally by: Erimisha ISK sent for 200 shares at 11/24 prices Your order has been received and checks out. I will process it along with any other orders placed at the 11/24 price shortly after the price drop goes into effect. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Thaanvanite Minmatar ACCORD Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.24 20:42:00 - [233] isk resent Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes, ty. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Cortes
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.24 21:02:00 - [234] Originally by: Thaanvanite isk resent Excellent. Confirmed that it has been sumbitted correctly. Your order will be processed along with the others as soon as the price drop goes into effect. It is alot simpler for me the issue all of the shares at the same time. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Beexer	Posted - 2007.11.25 10:41:00 - [235] ISK for 500 shares sent.
Science Experiment2	Posted - 2007.11.25 17:17:00 - [236] It would be cool to see this fly, but from the increased missioning activity I've been seeing in several popular R&D corp systems and the changes coming to invention, I see datacore prices under 500k no later than 45 days from the release of Trinity. That's probably even optimistic given the rate new supply is coming online. Have you made any contingency plans for if your price projections are off?
Dei Amarr Khanid Aerospace Group Khanid Provincial Authority	Posted - 2007.11.25 19:13:00 - [237] Edited by: Dei on 25/11/2007 19:13:09 I would guess we'll see what happens after trinity hits. It's very hard to speculate what will happen after a major patch update, especially with the new ships. But it's probably guarenteed that demand will exceed supply for the first few weeks. The question is however, a lot of people are getting the same ideas for datacore supply, so will you still see a return in April? I can't help but think that this IPO is about 6 months too late. But we'll see. --- The true master paralyses his opponent, leaving him vulnerable to attack
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.25 22:27:00 - [238] Originally by: Science Experiment2 Have you made any contingency plans for if your price projections are off? I do have plans to handle a further decrease in price. I cannot give details of what those plans are as it would give away even more information to competitors that would also be stuggling to make money in this field. Of course this IPO would have been even better if it had been started six months ago. Unfortunately there is no way to change that now. Of course, if it had been started six months ago, I wonder if that would have only moved everyone elses interest in this area back six months and things would not really be any different. I am still confident that we will see DC prices stabalize higher than 600K, but there are still options open for recovery even if they do not, I just cannot gaurentee that those options will be sufficient to generate the full return promised. I will not make promises that I am not certain that I can keep. If prices remain above where I have stated, then I am certain that I can exceed the promised return of 4% bi-weekly. If prices drop, I will do my best to meet that return, but make no assurances. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Von Ulrich	Posted - 2007.11.26 17:53:00 - [239] Order sent.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.26 18:50:00 - [240] Edited by: Matalino on 26/11/2007 18:51:05 Originally by: Von Ulrich Order sent. Your order has been received. I will process it this evening when I get home from work. In other news, I was checking the activity on the RESX and found it funny that someone had paid 200K for DATAC shares when I am currently selling them for 142K. Granted it was just 4 shares, and might have just been someone trying to muck with the price history, but I still thought it was funny. I also see that there is a buy order up for 130K. If this batch of shares doesn't sell out before Nov 30 someone could make an instant 6.8% profit, buying the shares from me at 121K and filling that order. I also want to take an opportunity to remind people that the current reference price for DATAC shares is 112,486.40. This will increase to 116,985.86 effective Dec 01. The baseline return of 4% bi-weekly is calaculated from that reference price. If you pay more than the reference price for these shares, there is no assurance that you will receive the full return (including interest) on your investment. Please use prudent judgement when pricing the value of the shares that you are purchasing. Dark Shikari is correct, that there is an "irrational exuberance" among investors. While I have no problems professionally with increasing our profits because of that exuberance, I personally don't want people to get burned because of it. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Asriel Grumman Minmatar Hi-Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.26 23:38:00 - [241] Originally by: Matalino ...Granted it was just 4 shares, and might have just been someone trying to muck with the price history... ...the above transaction was surely someone building the average value of stock of REGX prior to dumping, as some sizable amounts had just been sold to resellers (probably bought their own stock to inflate average price) I like your write up and words of investment wisdom. I will look out for future investment cycles, and GL
Adolin	Posted - 2007.11.28 00:45:00 - [242] Order placed
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.28 04:37:00 - [243] Originally by: Adolin Order placed Your order was process in the last set of shares that I sent out. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.11.29 15:37:00 - [244] A quick mini-update on where we are at here: Share sales continue to move along quite nicely. We are coming into the last couple of days of the auction and already more than half of this batch has sold out. We have a price drop coming latter tonight, then one more final drop tomorrow if it doesn't sell out before then. Obviously there is much excitement for the release of Trinity. Have people already stock piled enough DC's for their initial batch of post Trinity production? How high will this initial production push DC prices? We shall soon see where DC prices will go. As for DATAC, I will be pulling out a batch of 1000+ datacores a little more than a week after Trinity goes live. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.08 16:38:00 - [245] The sixth batch of shares is now up on the auction block. The target to be raised is 4.8 billion ISK. The previous batch raised 5,606,414,655.11 by selling 43,982 Shares. Leaving 295,642 shares in the corp wallet and 184,358 shares out in the public. Average price in the previous batch was 127,470.66, a healthy 8.9% above the baseline share price. I wish that I had more of an update to provide along with the opening of this auction, but at this point there is little else to say other than training and standings continue to progress and that our first major harvest will be pulled in immediately after the closure of this auction. How GTC and DC prices adjust over the next month will have a huge impact on the number of shares that will be released in future batches. If they remain strong then most of the shares that were scheduled to be sold will instead remain in the corp wallet, thereby increasing the value of those shares that have already been sold. If revenues are lower or expenses are higher due to a weak market, then the shares will be sold as previously scheduled. The general policy is to only sell the minimum number of shares needed to start up operations. As soon as revenues can sustain expenses, share sales will seize. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Finedele Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2007.12.09 04:43:00 - [246] just placed an order, i am a bit excited also my very first posting here!
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.09 04:47:00 - [247] Originally by: Finedele just placed an order, i am a bit excited also my very first posting here! Confirmed that your order has been received. I will process it tomorrow along with any other orders placed at the 153,945.41 ISK price. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Kuseka Adama Gallente WOLFPACK DELTA	Posted - 2007.12.10 03:15:00 - [248] Edited by: Kuseka Adama on 10/12/2007 03:24:54 I am going to place an order but i am not quite sure how to go about it. Could you send me an eve mail in game on who i send the order to? Sent you an eve mail myself. This seems like a decent investment. Edit order has been placed thanks for helping out on purchasing.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.10 03:26:00 - [249] Originally by: Kuseka Adama I am going to place an order but i am not quite sure how to go about it. Could you send me an eve mail in game on who i send the order to? Sent you an eve mail myself. This seems like a decent investment. I have also replied to you in-game, but for the benifit of anyone else with the same question I will answer here. All you need to do is figure out how many shares you wish to purchase and what the current price is. Once you know the total amount of ISK you need to send, open people and places, search for the corporation Datacore Harvesting, right click on the corp's name and choose give money. Enter the amount of ISK needed for your order. Entering a reason is optional as the only reason ISK is too be sent to the corp is for purchasing shares. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Malister Black Moons of Pluto	Posted - 2007.12.10 19:57:00 - [250] Edited by: Malister Black on 10/12/2007 19:57:27 Order placed Edit: Can't even type two words
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.10 20:09:00 - [251] Originally by: Malister Black Order placed Confirmed: order received. I will process orders around 04:00 - 05:00 this evening as RL stuff will keep me busy until then. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Guido Santorini	Posted - 2007.12.11 12:32:00 - [252] Order placed by EvEmail, please reply at your earliest convenience! Thank you sir!
Zharden	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:15:00 - [253] Order placed and funds sent
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.11 19:21:00 - [254] Originally by: Zharden Order placed and funds sent Confirmed: order received. I will process this set of orders around 01:00 this evening when I get home from work. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Zharden	Posted - 2007.12.12 00:49:00 - [255] confirmed: shares received thanks
Kiri Jol	Posted - 2007.12.12 14:32:00 - [256] order placed
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:29:00 - [257] Originally by: Kiri Jol order placed Your order has been received and will be processed when I get home from work this evening. I would ask that anyone else who wishes to confirm their order on the forums to please post in the sales thread so that the IPO thread does not continue to be cluttered with purchase related posts. I would prefer to keep this thread as clean as possible so that those looking for updates on the status of the business can find those updates as easily as possible. Thank you. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:37:00 - [258] Originally by: Matalino I would prefer to keep this thread as clean as possible so that those looking for updates on the status of the business can find those updates as easily as possible. Thank you. You have gotten to the point where I would suggest a new thread entirely. While having 5+ pages seems nice it is just ego-tastic really. People who want information do not want to have to chew through umpteen number of pages to find the good kernels. PS: That is why EBANK and myself tends to make each announcement a separate thread and only link back to previous threads. Cluttered threads happen but they do look so unprofessional. (That's just an opinion btw.) My Latest Auction!!
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.12 15:56:00 - [259] Edited by: Matalino on 12/12/2007 15:57:16 Originally by: Shar Tegral You have gotten to the point where I would suggest a new thread entirely. While having 5+ pages seems nice it is just ego-tastic really. People who want information do not want to have to chew through umpteen number of pages to find the good kernels. I was thinking to do that when I release a quarterly report at the end of the month. I like having a one stop thread where people can bookmark to find updates, instead of hunting through the forums, but that doesn't help if they need to wade through several pages of junk. If people need to update their bookmark quartly and each thread is chained to the next, I think that is a reasonable solution. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Naj Rebueller	Posted - 2007.12.13 22:09:00 - [260] Order placed.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.14 01:07:00 - [261] Originally by: Naj Rebueller Order placed. Orders have been processed. There are 600 million ISK in shares remaining in this batch. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.14 05:35:00 - [262] Update 2007-12-14 The sixth batch of shares is now sold out. No more shares will be sold in 2007. The number of shares to be sold in the future (January and beyond) will be dependant on market conditions. Shares will only be sold if needed. Further details will be released in the quarterly report that will be issued at the end of December / begining of January. ************************** Datacore Harvesting IPO
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.30 00:00:00 - [263] For those interested in an update regarding DATAC, I will plan to publish a major progress report in the next few days. I have not been publishing DATAC updates over the past couple of weeks because there is an issue which is affecting our RP yields. I am currently waiting for the issue to be reviewed by a senior GM. Lately their customer service has been of dimished quality. At this time I want to honor CCP's policies and give them a chance to resolve this issue privately, so I will not yet publish the details of the issue or how it has been mishandled. I am hoping that a Senior GM will correct the damage caused by their earlier mishandling of this issue. If CCP chooses to resolve the issue to my satisfaction, I will allow them the option to keep it private according to their policies. However, if there is any loss suffered by investors as a result of CCP's mishandling of this issue, I will publish a detailed account of what has transpired.
Shadarle	Posted - 2007.12.30 00:05:00 - [264] Originally by: Matalino For those interested in an update regarding DATAC, I will plan to publish a major progress report in the next few days. I have not been publishing DATAC updates over the past couple of weeks because there is an issue which is affecting our RP yields. I am currently waiting for the issue to be reviewed by a senior GM. Lately their customer service has been of dimished quality. At this time I want to honor CCP's policies and give them a chance to resolve this issue privately, so I will not yet publish the details of the issue or how it has been mishandled. I am hoping that a Senior GM will correct the damage caused by their earlier mishandling of this issue. If CCP chooses to resolve the issue to my satisfaction, I will allow them the option to keep it private according to their policies. However, if there is any loss suffered by investors as a result of CCP's mishandling of this issue, I will publish a detailed account of what has transpired. Whatever this issue is, it can only be made worse by the steady drop in ME datacore prices. Of all the times to have limited output, while the prices are high is the worst time. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.30 00:19:00 - [265] Originally by: Shadarle Whatever this issue is, it can only be made worse by the steady drop in ME datacore prices. Of all the times to have limited output, while the prices are high is the worst time. I am obviosly aware of that. I had hoped to leverage earlier output against a future price drop. Currently, it is my hope that by giving CCP the option of keeping the issue and its resolution confidential, the Senior GM will have a little more freedom to come up with a solution that actually resolves the issue to a reasonable degree without having the public second guess their desision. If investors suffer a notable loss because of how this issue has been mishandled, I will inform investors of every detail of how this issue was mishandled along with estimated lost profits. Currently those potential losses stand in the billions of ISK. My current plan is to give CCP another week to address the issue, as many the Senior GM staff might be off for the holidays.
Raskor	Posted - 2007.12.30 01:43:00 - [266] Originally by: Matalino I have not been publishing DATAC updates over the past couple of weeks because there is an issue which is affecting our RP yields. Was this issue occurring before the latest batch of share sales and not disclosed, or did it show up more recently?
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.30 03:19:00 - [267] Edited by: Matalino on 30/12/2007 03:25:07 Originally by: Raskor Was this issue occurring before the latest batch of share sales and not disclosed, or did it show up more recently? The petition for this issue was filed 3 weeks prior to the release of Trinity. A response was received from a GM approx 2 weeks after the original petition was filed. The responses of the two GMs that have looked at the issue were neither helpful nor informative. As such I requested that the issue be escalated to a Senior GM. It has now been a full month since I requested the issue be escalated and I have not recieved any further response. Needless to say, I am unimpressed with the response time on for this issue. As I stated in response Shadarle's post: I would like to give CCP the option clean up the mess they have created with regards this issue before I disclose all of the details, so I will not post further explainations as to the history of this issue. The purpose of my posting was to inform investors why I have not posted more frequent status updates and why the quarterly status update might be delayed. If CCP does not fully resolve the issue along with the damaged caused by their mishandling of the issue, I will post complete details of what happened along with estimated costs and my recovery efforts. If CCP does resolve the issue fully, there would be little more to say beyond stating that everything is back on track. I do not see anyone gaining by detailing a mistake that was properly resolved. The reason that this issue was not previously revealed to investors was because CCP had previously resolved this issue many times before and had given me every reason to beleive that it would have been resolved again. I am most displeased with an as yet unexplained change in how CCP is handling this issue.
IBait4Fun	Posted - 2007.12.30 15:41:00 - [268] I believe I know what issue Matalino is talking about. Recently a lot of RD agents have been giving out corrupted missions that prevent you from receiving the extra RP for that day. Usually I petition and CCP is pretty quick in restarting the mission, but if it happens to Matalino as often as it does to myself, perhaps they have stopped being as quick to resolve. The issue occurs > 50% of the missions so it could result in a significant reduction in RP (the exact percentage I can't say since I don't do enough missions to figure this out).
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2007.12.30 15:45:00 - [269] Nope thats not the problem bait. It's related to skills (I had the same issue). That's all I am saying as I don't want a forum post to in some way negatively impact the outome of his claim.
Raskor	Posted - 2007.12.30 20:35:00 - [270] Originally by: IBait4Fun RD agents have been giving out corrupted missions that prevent you from receiving the extra RP for that day. Actually, it has been my experience that if you accept those broken missions, you can immediately "finish" it and you do get the bonus rp's.
Raskor	Posted - 2007.12.30 20:51:00 - [271] Originally by: Matalino The petition for this issue was filed 3 weeks prior to the release of Trinity. A response was received from a GM approx 2 weeks after the original petition was filed. The responses of the two GMs that have looked at the issue were neither helpful nor informative. As such I requested that the issue be escalated to a Senior GM. It has now been a full month since I requested the issue be escalated and I have not recieved any further response. The reason that this issue was not previously revealed to investors was because CCP had previously resolved this issue many times before and had given me every reason to beleive that it would have been resolved again. I am most displeased with an as yet unexplained change in how CCP is handling this issue. So you are saying there was a problem with the datacore yields that had happened before and had been corrected, but this time you had to escalate the issue --- meaning something was different? And this escalation was at the same time as the latest share sale was pitched where you basically led everyone to believe all was rosy, ME sale prices notwithstanding? Am I the only one here that feels this should have been disclosed to prospective investors at the time of the latest sale? I can understand you not being able to disclose the details, but this was a definite risk and should have been communicated as such. I can't believe everyone is quite so optimistic that the GM's will always do the right thing when an issue occurs.
jongalt	Posted - 2007.12.30 21:29:00 - [272] negligence does not necessarily imply malicious intent. but rationalization might. -jg.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2007.12.30 21:37:00 - [273] Originally by: Raskor Am I the only one here that feels this should have been disclosed to prospective investors at the time of the latest sale? I can understand you not being able to disclose the details, but this was a definite risk and should have been communicated as such. I can't believe everyone is quite so optimistic that the GM's will always do the right thing when an issue occurs. If I'm reading right then it's an issue that's happened a couple times before and CCP has always been quick on the draw to fix it, except this time quite a while has passed and now they're being less than helpful. If it's something that's historically been fixed quickly without issue then there's no reason to get everyone worked up over and potentially lose investors and therefor ISK to get more characters up and running, and slowing down profitability for existing investors. However, now that there's potentially billions lost if this issue isn't resolved, he's done the right thing by communicating with investors and telling what's happened, where things are at now, and an idea when we can be expected to know either all the details about what's occoured, or that the issue has been resolved. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Raskor	Posted - 2007.12.30 23:34:00 - [274] Edited by: Raskor on 30/12/2007 23:34:41 Originally by: Minerva Vulcan If I'm reading right then it's an issue that's happened a couple times before and CCP has always been quick on the draw to fix it, except this time quite a while has passed and now they're being less than helpful. If it's something that's historically been fixed quickly without issue then there's no reason to get everyone worked up over and potentially lose investors and therefor ISK to get more characters up and running, and slowing down profitability for existing investors. First off, I'm not implying anything malicious here. I'm not insinuating that Matalino is trying to scam; I'm just saying he should have given full disclosure when he came looking for additional funding. Yes, it had happened before and had been quickly addressed in the past without any need to notify shareholders. But that changed when they deviated from the norm, when he had to escalate to a senior GM for resolution. He chose a reverse auction format to maximize funding per share. I bought in at a higher price giving up future gain. I did that knowing the mech core market was on a down swing but believing he was hedged against that risk. There was an issue that he was not at full production due to a game bug. Even if the GM's ultimately restore the lost datacores, time will be against him; he will have to sell them at the then price and receiving a likely lower average price. This was most definitely a material risk to his business and should have been disclosed when he came looking for new funding. I'm not trying to crucify the OP here or asking for my isk back. The goal of this forum from what I have been reading is to improve this part of the game and identify best practices. Full disclosure is every bit as important as communication, in my opinion.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2007.12.30 23:37:00 - [275] Edited by: Matalino on 30/12/2007 23:41:36 Originally by: Minerva Vulcan If I'm reading right then it's an issue that's happened a couple times before and CCP has always been quick on the draw to fix it, except this time quite a while has passed and now they're being less than helpful. If it's something that's historically been fixed quickly without issue then there's no reason to get everyone worked up over and potentially lose investors and therefor ISK to get more characters up and running, and slowing down profitability for existing investors. However, now that there's potentially billions lost if this issue isn't resolved, he's done the right thing by communicating with investors and telling what's happened, where things are at now, and an idea when we can be expected to know either all the details about what's occoured, or that the issue has been resolved. Minerva's read is correct. The issue was small and had occured several times before. Each time the issue was quickly and promptly resolved. This last time it had taken much longer than expected. At the time that the previous batch of shares was released, I was still fully confident that CCP would respond in a reasonable time frame and it would be fully resolved. Up until about a week after the previous batch of shares was released, the lack of resolution for this issue had no direct impact on my operations. Had CCP resolved this issue anytime within a month of my filing the petition there would have been no ill effects. However, it has now been over 6 weeks since the petition was filed, and the side effects of this issue are now significant. As Minerva said, in a week or two I hope to be able to come back and state that everything has been fixed. If not I will detail exactly what has happened, and then we can discuss it in detail. If the forum moderators will permit us to discuss GM actions here then I will post a new thread to detail what has happened, if not there are other forums we can use. In the mean time this is simply an advisory that there may be an unpleasent announcement in the near future should the issue not be resolved, or in the very least a delay in the release of the quarterly report even if the issue is resolved. Until we know what CCP is going to do, there is little more to discuss on this issue. I believe that it is in the interest of investors to keep the details confidencial, in the hopes that by honoring CCP's policies regarding the discussion of GM actions we will encourage them to be reasonable in resolving the mess they have created. Should CCP choose not to resolve the issue, I will disclose every detail regarding the history of this issue, at which point I would invite critism of what has happened, both on how it was handled by CCP and my own counter response.
Guido Santorini	Posted - 2007.12.31 11:28:00 - [276] As one of Matalino's investors, I continue to be optimistic on the outcome of his ventures. I'm sure that all will be resolved favourably as this is the Holiday Season and CCP, like many companies, is down to a skeleton crew for at least another couple of days. Happy New Year to all, GS
Finedele Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.01.05 09:16:00 - [277] anything new about the petition?
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.05 12:00:00 - [278] Hasn't even been a week yet since he announced the problem. Give it a little more time. He said a week or two. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Finedele Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.01.05 15:17:00 - [279] My post wasnt meant to push Matalino, I am just curious, based on my recent experience with the customer support. And as he mentioned, the case was already petitioned a while ago. You see, no offense
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.05 20:46:00 - [280] No worries about pushing for an update. I was planning to post one today anyways. Still nothing new from CCP. If additional shares will need to be issues it will not be before Jan 19. As such I am giving CCP until Jan 16 to respond and resolve this issue. That will have given them 2 months from the date of the creation of this petition and 7 weeks since their last response.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.09 13:10:00 - [281] Originally by: Matalino As such I am giving CCP until Jan 16 to respond and resolve this issue. That will have given them 2 months from the date of the creation of this petition and 7 weeks since their last response. I can't believe they can take so long to answer a petition. It's a disgraceful example of customer service. Really. Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.09 15:26:00 - [282] Originally by: Astorothe Originally by: Matalino As such I am giving CCP until Jan 16 to respond and resolve this issue. That will have given them 2 months from the date of the creation of this petition and 7 weeks since their last response. I can't believe they can take so long to answer a petition. It's a disgraceful example of customer service. Really. The delay is not the worst of it, but I will save that until they respond or we run out of time. So far there has still been no further response. Mean while, nothing will be changed by impatience. We can wait one or two more weeks before decisions need to be made.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 01:37:00 - [283] A responce has been received from a Senior GM. So far he has been no more helpful nor informative than the previous GM's that responded to this petition. It is still premature to disclose the history of this issue, but I now expect that the issue will be settled one way or the other in comparitively short order. As soon as all avenues of appeal are exhusted, I will publish a detailed history of the issue, estimations of its effects, and the plan/options for proceeding.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.10 01:49:00 - [284] Edited by: Treelox on 10/01/2008 01:50:32 I dont know if you noticed or not, but there was a server side hotfix deployed today on TQ during DT. The patch notes for it listed the follow line; Originally by: CCP Mindstar * Some R&D agent missions were not working properly due to a server-side error. This error has been resolved. OFC thats a pretty vague report by them on what exactly was fixed, but then again so far so has the description of your problem. Is it possible that this hotfix has fixed your problem for potential repeats of the issue you currently have under petition? If it has fixed this problem, maybe refering the senior gm to that patch note, will expedite then fixing your problem of the past that is what your current petition is about. ----edit added the last sentence --
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:09:00 - [285] That's about missions. I don't know if the problem is mission related. I wouldn't think that if it were just related to a mission it would be such a big deal, especially since I doubt he's flying 144 characters all over the place daily to do the agent mission. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:14:00 - [286] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan That's about missions. I don't know if the problem is mission related. I wouldn't think that if it were just related to a mission it would be such a big deal, especially since I doubt he's flying 144 characters all over the place daily to do the agent mission. Yeah I dont know if his issues are mission based or not either. I do know that I have seen his alts in space in groups of 5-8 on occasion. Not sure if they were running missions or what, but I figure it was possible. --
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:21:00 - [287] I suppose it's entirely possible then if he has the time or the desire to do that. It would be optimal for profits. If he is running missions on all of them then I'm wow'd... I couldn't see myself doing that. Of course I'm lazy, though. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:27:00 - [288] Originally by: Treelox Edited by: Treelox on 10/01/2008 01:50:32 I dont know if you noticed or not, but there was a server side hotfix deployed today on TQ during DT. The patch notes for it listed the follow line; Originally by: CCP Mindstar * Some R&D agent missions were not working properly due to a server-side error. This error has been resolved. OFC thats a pretty vague report by them on what exactly was fixed, but then again so far so has the description of your problem. Is it possible that this hotfix has fixed your problem for potential repeats of the issue you currently have under petition? If it has fixed this problem, maybe refering the senior gm to that patch note, will expedite then fixing your problem of the past that is what your current petition is about. ----edit added the last sentence yeh I noticed this aswell and immidiately thought about Mat's issues. I also don't know for sure if his issues are related directly, but from his most recent posts above it looks like we're close to a resolution. fingers crossed Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:29:00 - [289] Originally by: Minerva Vulcan I suppose it's entirely possible then if he has the time or the desire to do that. It would be optimal for profits. If he is running missions on all of them then I'm wow'd... I couldn't see myself doing that. Of course I'm lazy, though. Well i assume he has to run missions with them sometime, to get their standings up the point they can employ the RnD agents in the first place. Then again I haven't paid too much attention to this plan, since it was not something I was intrested in investing from its onset. It had nothing to do with trust or anything sinister of the sort, just wasnt something I felt comfortable in investing in. --
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:42:00 - [290] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Minerva Vulcan I suppose it's entirely possible then if he has the time or the desire to do that. It would be optimal for profits. If he is running missions on all of them then I'm wow'd... I couldn't see myself doing that. Of course I'm lazy, though. Well i assume he has to run missions with them sometime, to get their standings up the point they can employ the RnD agents in the first place. Then again I haven't paid too much attention to this plan, since it was not something I was intrested in investing from its onset. It had nothing to do with trust or anything sinister of the sort, just wasnt something I felt comfortable in investing in. He ran missions using the fleet sharing of standings that you get now as far as I could guess anyhow. But R&D agents would require a mission being run for every single character. I highly doubt he is doing that. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.10 02:47:00 - [291] Originally by: Treelox Well i assume he has to run missions with them sometime, to get their standings up the point they can employ the RnD agents in the first place. Then again I haven't paid too much attention to this plan, since it was not something I was intrested in investing from its onset. It had nothing to do with trust or anything sinister of the sort, just wasnt something I felt comfortable in investing in. I was refering to the optional R&D missions that characters can run once a day that double their RP gains for that day, not the regular agent missions that were of course necessary for standings. And I do have to say I'm impressed with Matalino. I had enough of an excruciating time doing it for two characters. I can't imagine doing it for 144. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Ricdic Caldari Corporate Research And Production Pty Ltd Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.10 05:11:00 - [292] It's not about missions. It's related to skills. http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=500043 Largest Empire Research Alliance in EVE!
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.10 05:58:00 - [293] Edited by: Matalino on 10/01/2008 06:00:23 Originally by: Ricdic It's not about missions. It's related to skills. Correct. Ricdic, as my Board of Directors, has been kept up to date on the progression of this issue, and is fully aware of what it is. For now, I am sticking with my policy of giving CCP the option of confidenciality provided that the final result is a full and complete resolution. As such I am not revealling the details at this time. Until I know the outcome of the petition, I do not wish to say more than absolutely nessisary. I have received a second response from the Senior GM. Now that my petition has made it to the top of the pile, it would appear that responses are timely enough that they could almost be concidered a dialog. If this pace of response continues, the petition should run its course quickly. Once the fate of the petition is certain, I will disclose those details that are appropreate. Should CCP choose to fully resolve this issue, I will leave it as such, and not needlessly disgrace them by publicly detailing how this issue has been mishandled. If investors will suffer in anyway as a result of this issue, I will disclose all of the details. You would then be free to evaluate the situation for yourselfs. In both cases, Ricdic will be fully informed, and will likely advise me as to the degree of disclosure that is appropreate based on the respnose that CCP reaches.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.12 22:03:00 - [294] I have not yet received another response from CCP regarding the petition. The petition status has reverted back to "Open". When I received the previous rapid response the status was "In-Action". This change in status would lead me to beleive that it might be a couple more days before I receive another response. CCP's responses have left much to be desired from their customer service, but we are still taking the stance of wait-and-see so that they can either resolve their misconduct, or once the petition has run its course, their misconduct can be reported in full, without taking things out of context. Ricdic has been and will continue to be fully informed of the progress of this issue. Until this issue is concluded, it is impractical to provide an appropreate report on the progress of this venture, but I can assure you that I am doing all that I can to ensure its success.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.01.13 00:41:00 - [295] Yeh I have suggested a few ideas that may help this issue be resolved. A little different to the way Matalino was handling it. Whether it is sufficient or not is anyone's guess. Matalino, lets assume the petition goes badly and nothing is resolved. Can you give a rough estimate (I know you can't give accurate without doing a ton of number calculations) on what the investors will expect to occur with their investment. Basically just a rough worst case scenario if this doesn't work. I don't feel comfortable saying it as I don't know this industry anywhere near as detailed as you do.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.13 01:40:00 - [296] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Matalino, lets assume the petition goes badly and nothing is resolved. Can you give a rough estimate (I know you can't give accurate without doing a ton of number calculations) on what the investors will expect to occur with their investment. Basically just a rough worst case scenario if this doesn't work. I don't feel comfortable saying it as I don't know this industry anywhere near as detailed as you do. At the end of this week, I will be running those projections. If CCP has not resolved the issue before then, those projections will assume that CCP will not resolve the issue. I do not want to run those projections twice if I can avoid the extra work. The results of those projections will not affect opperational plans for this week, but I will need those projections to make operations plans for next week and beyond. So the previously planned deadline for resolution remains: waiting one more week will not make things any worse. I will provide more information next weekend, provided that CCP does not give me more to report before then.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.01.13 02:08:00 - [297] Originally by: Ricdic It's not about missions. It's related to skills. Ugh, don't tell me; did they break Connections again!? MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.01.13 02:26:00 - [298] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Ricdic It's not about missions. It's related to skills. Ugh, don't tell me; did they break Connections again!? MP Ok, I won't
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.13 02:30:00 - [299] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Ricdic It's not about missions. It's related to skills. Ugh, don't tell me; did they break Connections again!? MP Nope, something else entirely. At this point, the heart of the issue, is CCP saying one thing, doing it several times, being asked if they will do it again, given an opporunity to advise is anything has changed, giving me a go ahead to proceed, then refusing to follow through on their end. Had CCP pulled this stunt with someone who was less of a fanboy than I used to be, you would already have all of the details in a lengthy whine. As it is, I am giving CCP enough room to either recover some dignity, or kill any remain credibility their customer service might have.
Lieutenant Obvious Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.13 04:31:00 - [300] Wait, did you just say CCP had customer service?
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.13 05:22:00 - [301] Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious Wait, did you just say CCP had customer service? I do not want this thread derailed with rants about CCP and their policies. That belongs in GD not MD. Here I would like to keep things professional. I am withholding my comments on CCP's customer service until everything runs its course, so that everything can be placed in its proper context. My faith in CCP has been broken, but they may yet see reason, and restore some small piece of trust. I do not wish to harm investors prosective returns by going off on a rant, regardless of how justified it might be. So I will remain professional in the hope (however small that might now be) that CCP will, in the end, also be professional, as they have been prior to this issue.
kram noitamalcxe	Posted - 2008.01.13 20:05:00 - [302] Earlier on in this thread you said you would give ccp untill 16th of januari before disclosing what happened/is happening. Do you still intend to stick to that date?
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.13 20:46:00 - [303] Sounds like he is, yes. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.13 21:55:00 - [304] Originally by: kram noitamalcxe Earlier on in this thread you said you would give ccp untill 16th of januari before disclosing what happened/is happening. Do you still intend to stick to that date? Atleast until that date. The exact date of when I will release all of the details will depend upon what actions CCP takes, and what my calculations indicate the best course of actions is for recovery. My aim is to maximize returns for investors. I do not want to tell the story until it can be told in full. As long as it is in the best interest of investors I will delay disclosure. As soon as investors best interests are served by a full disclosure, I will reveal all of the details. I will be consulting with Ricdic through out this process. I do not know for certain that I will disclose all of the details on the 16th. That date was given as that was the projected date of when I would need to release the next batch of shares. At this point, my estimates are that avoiding or delaying the sale of additional shares is the best course of action to ensure the long term viablility of this venture. As such the date for disclosure will most likely be bumped back a bit more, depending on advise from Ricdic.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.14 13:22:00 - [305] Frustrating. This is really dragging now. Good luck Mat - let's hope the GMs pull through and sort this out. Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.14 15:21:00 - [306] Edited by: Matalino on 14/01/2008 15:21:52 I have received another response. I am guessing that we might have gotten our previous response just before he was off for the weekend, thus a couple of days between responses. The Senior GM claims that he has a conflict between what his internal information tells him should have happened, and what reality shows actually happened. He is looking into those details and I am waiting to see what the outcome is.
Dreysine Paratheoanametamystichood	Posted - 2008.01.14 19:54:00 - [307] thanks for keeping us updated, Mat.
Finedele Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.01.14 20:10:00 - [308] Originally by: Dreysine thanks for keeping us updated, Mat. qft
Kuseka Adama Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.01.14 21:34:00 - [309] Originally by: Dreysine thanks for keeping us updated, Mat. Yes thank you Mat.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 07:01:00 - [310] The absurdity of CCP's response to this issue continues to amaze me. I am basically getting the equivalent of "our logs show nothing" as a response. The thing is, that their public data dumps do fully document what the GM claims never happened. "Our logs show nothing" only works when I don't have a copy of those logs. The insanity of their responses has given me a degree of paranoia. As such I would recommend that those who are interested in this issue, download a copy of the Rev1 and Rev2 data dumps for their own reference, incase CCP goes so far as to edit those dumps to cover up their incompetence. I truly hope that such a measure is merely paranoia, but then it is not paranoia if they really are out to get you. My patience is near to completely exhausted. If CCP's attitude does not change immediately to looking for an acceptable solution instead of denying the problem, I will be publishing the full history of this issue in short order.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.15 08:33:00 - [311] Time for an Email to one of the real powers that be at CCP HQ? --
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.01.15 10:08:00 - [312] Although I don't have a stake in this venture I do have a stake in CCP improving the quality of their customer service and generally admitting the existence of bugs and handling them better. To that end I downloaded the files you linked. I can make them publicly available on one of MIT's many servers in the morning if you would like. It's highly redundant and has virtually unlimited bandwidth so if you want a public mirror of these files that's your best bet. 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 15:37:00 - [313] Originally by: Treelox Time for an Email to one of the real powers that be at CCP HQ? That is my planned course of action, if the next response to the petition cannot be paraphased as "OMG, I am so sorry for our ignorance, what can we do to fix this?" Originally by: Kwint Sommer Although I don't have a stake in this venture I do have a stake in CCP improving the quality of their customer service and generally admitting the existence of bugs and handling them better. To that end I downloaded the files you linked. I can make them publicly available on one of MIT's many servers in the morning if you would like. It's highly redundant and has virtually unlimited bandwidth so if you want a public mirror of these files that's your best bet. Thank you. Last night I was extremely tired and overly fustrated. A good nights sleep has done much to resolve the fatigue, but little to resolve my fustration with CCP. In hind site, it would be utterly foolish for CCP to attempt such a cover up as countless players already have copies of those files, and the relevant details are documented in atleast one well referenced third party guide. Eve players have a long memory, I expect it likely that many people will not be able to recall these facts for themselves. However, if CCP is stupid enough to deny what is recorded in those files, who knows if their stupidity will stop short of trying to change them. Anyways, this Senior GM is on his last chance to resolve this fiasco. Should he choose not to do so, I will be contacting CCP's Internal Affairs, along with Kieron and Wrangler, inviting them to intervene. If they also choose not to intervene in a satisfactory manner, I will publish the full history of this issue, including the incompentence with which this petition has been handled.
Fitz VonHeise The New Order. United Connection's	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:24:00 - [314] I would be curious to know if the issue you are having is also effecting other people with mechanical data core alts like me who would then also ask for restoration/compensation? Services I Provide: Caldari Factional Standing Increase ò Alliance Creation ò The Thieves Of EvE ò My Links
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.15 19:47:00 - [315] Originally by: Fitz VonHeise I would be curious to know if the issue you are having is also effecting other people with mechanical data core alts like me who would then also ask for restoration/compensation? If your characters were affected, then I expect that you would know about it. If you send me an evemail with the name of your character, I can check if your character was affected by this bug next time I am in-game. If you are not aware of any bugs affecting your characters' skill set, then it is unlikely that you were affected.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 06:12:00 - [316] Originally by: Matalino If you are not aware of any bugs affecting your characters' skill set, then it is unlikely that you were affected. Slightly off-topic, but that sentence deeply disturbs me because it's a very valid point. I run only character and don't check the % bonuses, skill training times, etc because I trust the system - I would have no idea if my skill set was bugged or not. Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:03:00 - [317] Originally by: Astorothe Slightly off-topic, but that sentence deeply disturbs me because it's a very valid point. I run only character and don't check the % bonuses, skill training times, etc because I trust the system - I would have no idea if my skill set was bugged or not. You are reading too much into this. This bug is about as subtle as a brick to the side of the head. If you were hit, you would know it. If you don't know about it, then it does not apply to you, because more of this issue is built upon the GM responses to this bug than on the bug itself. I cannot say more about the bug, because it immeadiately unravels into what the GM's have done about this bug, and by the time any explination makes sense, everything has been revealed. I respect the principles upon which CCP's private-communication confidencially policy is based, but if they attempt to abuse that policy, I will not honor it. The latest update from the Senior GM is that this issue is now being past up to a Lead GM. As I indicated in an earlier post, the reason that this bug is an issue is because of the expectations built up by GM's responses to that bug. Their failure to follow through with those expectations might be an issolated incident. If they can show that it is an issolated incident, clean up the mess they have made, and show that they have taken proper messures to prevent a recurrance, then I see no reason to slander CCP by publishing the details. If they do not, then I feel it would be irresponsible of me to keep it secret.
Hinterwaeldler Kombatans	Posted - 2008.01.16 16:40:00 - [318] Originally by: Matalino I cannot say more about the bug, because it immeadiately unravels into what the GM's have done about this bug, and by the time any explination makes sense, everything has been revealed. You have been teasing us for a month now. Spill the beans.
Shuan Jedai Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:01:00 - [319] Originally by: Hinterwaeldler You have been teasing us for a month now. Spill the beans. As a small share holder I've been very happy how he's been handling the issue, personally I don't know if I'd have had that kind of patience. If he believes it's better for shareholders interest to do it this way (and apparently Riddic verifies it is), I'd say keep on going, only publish the issue if GMs and CCP falls through. Or afterwards, if it gets resolved.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:10:00 - [320] Originally by: Hinterwaeldler You have been teasing us for a month now. Spill the beans. It has not been my intention to tease you. I will not spill the beans yet. We are still moving forward, and the story is still incomplete. If the story is to be told, then let it be told in full, and don't let the telling change the ending.
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:29:00 - [321] my calender says 16th jan. do you have a specific time that is zero hour before you reveal the bug? Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon GhostYou do, but this is compensated for by lag
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.16 17:57:00 - [322] Edited by: Matalino on 16/01/2008 17:57:43 Originally by: PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik do you have a specific time that is zero hour before you reveal the bug? As soon as CCP show that their policy for having us keep GM communication confidencial does more harm than good. The bug is not really the problem. It was a small, stupid bug that they introduced with Revelations 2.2, and was patched with the release of Trinity. The problem is not the bug. The problem is the way they have handled that bug and the expectations that they had set. By mishandling the bug, they have made the bug an issue, when it could have been easily fixed or avoided. Since CCP is still showing some willingness to look for a solution, I do not want to limit our options for resolution by subjecting it to more publicity than can be avoided. If CCP shows no interest in resolution, then I will publish the full history. As long as investors' and the public's interest are best served by keeping it confidencial I will do so. If a majority of shareholders express a desire for the full details of this issue to be disclosed, even if it means writing off a large portion (approx 2/3's) of their investment, I will reconsider disclosing the details sooner. However, I do not wish to harm my investors chances to receive their returns, just so that I can vent my fustrations. I do not want to discredit CCP's customer service until they have conclusively proven that they are incapable of fixing the mistakes that they have made.
Kuseka Adama Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.01.16 18:20:00 - [323] Stuff like this is why i chose to invest my money here. Matalino doesnt BS it he doesnt scam. Good work on keeping us updated sir. I hope this works out for everyone. For the record i would not be willing to part with my investment.
Trading Bunnz Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.01.16 23:52:00 - [324] Quote: ...writing off a large portion (approx 2/3's) of their investment...
Kwint Sommer Incoherent Inc Otaku Invasion	Posted - 2008.01.17 01:18:00 - [325] Quote: ...writing off a large portion (approx 2/3's) of their investment... Just to clarify, is that 2/3's of the initial investment or what the NAV would be if they fixed the bug or purely the profit? So if it is written off will investors be getting back 1/3 of their original investment, their original investment plus 1/3 of the expected profits or 1/3 of the current NAV if it had been fixed? 5% Mining & Manufacturing Implants
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.17 02:34:00 - [326] Originally by: Kwint Sommer Just to clarify, is that 2/3's of the initial investment or what the NAV would be if they fixed the bug or purely the profit? So if it is written off will investors be getting back 1/3 of their original investment, their original investment plus 1/3 of the expected profits or 1/3 of the current NAV if it had been fixed? 2/3's of the accounts have had their progression severly crippled by this issue. It will likely take months to get them back on track, if it is possible to salvage them at all. 1/3 of the accounts will be able to escape with minimal damage, but will still have their progression delayed by almost a week, provided that CCP doesn't do even more damage than they already have done. Once everything is settled, I will go into more detail about my recovery plan, both against the failing datacore market and the damage done by CCP. So far my review of the numbers indicate that there is nothing more to do at this time but wait and see what CCP will do. Beyond that, I am focusing my efforts on clearing away my obligations regarding KITI Bond. Once that is out of the way, I can focus all my efforts again to bailing out DATAC. Like Kuseka said, I don't BS and I don't scam. I will do what I can to make this work out as best as I can.
Bouncer Ricdic	Posted - 2008.01.17 03:11:00 - [327] I agree with Matalino on this. To the investors, hold out a bit longer there is a far higher chance this can go the right way if it's all done by the book. I don't think the time has come to publicise this issue at least not until the things I have advised have been attempted. All will soon be revealed (maybe) and you guys can have some more drama to add to the coffers (Assuming it isn't resolved).
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.17 03:16:00 - [328] Originally by: Bouncer Ricdic I agree with Matalino on this. To the investors, hold out a bit longer... I don't believe we're going anywhere. Ze logs show NOTHING! ~ Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Guido Santorini	Posted - 2008.01.18 11:20:00 - [329] I second Kuseka's solid words. Matalino, keep up the good work, and thank you for all your efforts thus far and into the conclusion of this issue. I'm a minor investor, too, but I'm with you 110% of the way. Cheers! GS
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.18 13:14:00 - [330] This was expected to be a longish term investment anyway so there's no reason not to have patience. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.18 18:59:00 - [331] I have received a couple of responses from the Lead GM. We are now proceeding in the correct direction. It is now a matter of how much of the mess they will clean up, and how much will remain to affect on going operations.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.18 23:27:00 - [332] Edited by: Matalino on 18/01/2008 23:27:51 In talking with the Lead GM, we have reached an agreement to resolve this issue. While no resolution could ever be perfect given the complexity of the resulting effects, this solution is completely satasfactory, as such I will leave it at that. When I get home from work I will be verifying that everything has been set in order on their end as agreed to. It will then take me a couple of weeks to finish setting everything back in order on my end and lay plans to deal with the declining market. In all I do believe that following CCP's policies has helped to lead to a favorable resolution, and given time the obsurdity of earlier responses was found to have a reasonable explaination. There is no company in any industry that has perfect customer service, but the tell sign of good customer service is that they will explain and fix their mistakes. I can say at the end of this that CCP has done both. There is still a hard fight ahead of me to deal with the declining market, but I will not be holding CCP accountable for any further handy cap in dealing with it.
Bouncer Ricdic	Posted - 2008.01.18 23:37:00 - [333] Good Job, now jump on MSN and tell me all about it
Lieutenant Obvious Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.19 00:14:00 - [334] Can we at least be informed now what the bug was that started the controversy? I see no reason why advising all and sundry of a bug that adversely affects players would now cause an issue.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.19 00:46:00 - [335] Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious Can we at least be informed now what the bug was that started the controversy? I see no reason why advising all and sundry of a bug that adversely affects players would now cause an issue. Sorry, but CCP does have their policy for a reason, and I respect that. There were specific circumstances that would justify CCP handling the way the bug affected me different from how it might have affected others. The "wrong" way that they were handling the bug in my case, wouldn't have been wrong if they had not previously setup the expectation to handle it a different way. If you were affected by this bug you would know it. There was nothing subtle about it. You really couldn't miss it. If you think that you had this bug that affected your characters, but were never told that it it should have been fixed a different way, then it was fixed correctly for your situation. I am not going to publish the details as CCP's policy is there, at least in part, as there are many other reasons, is to prevent people from making up stories so that they can jump on the me-too bandwagon. Ultimately, the eariler misunderstanding with the Senior GM, and his assertion that changes were never made, was traced back to a documentation error made by their development team. Once shown how the history of the change was documented in the data dumps, they were able to trace back to that error. As soon as they confirmed that the dispute started with a mistake on their end, CCP was completely co-operative in looking for a solution, and is therefore consistant with quality customer service. For those concerned with the nature of this change, there is no need, it is in complete harmony with the established pattern for this game mechanic. The change itself was not suprising, only the way it was carried out. If the GM handling this issue wants to make it public, then he is welcome to do so, but I will not press the issue. I had refered him to this thread when he inquired as to why I had so many accounts, so he might be reading it.
Lieutenant Obvious Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.01.19 01:19:00 - [336] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious Can we at least be informed now what the bug was that started the controversy? I see no reason why advising all and sundry of a bug that adversely affects players would now cause an issue. Sorry, but CCP does have their policy for a reason, and I respect that. Hang on, which policy is that exactly? I understand not posting GM related convos, but is there also a policy that states "users must not share information regarding bugs they have found"? It's not like it's an exploitative bug. Quote: Ultimately, the eariler misunderstanding with the Senior GM, and his assertion that changes were never made, was traced back to a documentation error made by their development team. I get those "our logs show nothing" responses all the time also. Sorry for the side-track, but I'm curious.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.01.19 03:23:00 - [337] Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Lieutenant Obvious Can we at least be informed now what the bug was that started the controversy? I see no reason why advising all and sundry of a bug that adversely affects players would now cause an issue. Sorry, but CCP does have their policy for a reason, and I respect that. Hang on, which policy is that exactly? I understand not posting GM related convos, but is there also a policy that states "users must not share information regarding bugs they have found"? It's not like it's an exploitative bug. I concur. You're sitting on at least a quarter of a billion isk that I directed your way, and you've spent the last month blueballing us over this super-secret bug. You can't post GM communications, but you can sure as hell tell us what was not working properly. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.19 03:48:00 - [338] Edited by: Matalino on 19/01/2008 03:51:35 I want to check with Ricdic and CCP before I reveal more than I already have. Discussing what was broken very quickly progresses to discussion of what was done to fix it and from there to why didn't CCP fix mine that way to and it just goes on and on. It also goes into way wasn't this fixed the first time, what exactly did the GM's say about it etc. Minimally I want to talk to Ricdic.
Raskor	Posted - 2008.01.19 04:41:00 - [339] Are you planning to create more accounts? If so, do you have an understanding with the GM's that if and when this occurs again, they will quickly do whatever they did to fix it again?
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.01.19 04:50:00 - [340] Spoke to Matalino. He will give a brief summary on what occured after he gets his beauty sleep (check out that avatar, he needs it)
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.19 05:09:00 - [341] Originally by: Raskor Are you planning to create more accounts? If so, do you have an understanding with the GM's that if and when this occurs again, they will quickly do whatever they did to fix it again? Before I go to bed I can quickly answer these two questions. 1.) I have no intention of creating more accounts. 2.) There is no way that this issue can occur again. It was fixed with Trinity and that is the end of it. Had there not been a documentation issue, and the correct information communicated to GM's and customers this would not have been even the slightest issue.
Finedele Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.01.19 13:59:00 - [342] i think you should reveal some more else then "oh when you have teh bug, you'll see" which you did until now. its because people are curious and want to know all the things they don't really need to know. you kept teasing, time to show off what you have ;) anyway, good to hear that everything came to an good end! thx for your efford in this case
Bouncer Ricdic	Posted - 2008.01.19 14:30:00 - [343] It's funny. Matalino gave an open call to people as to who wanted a board of director's position and no-one else bothered to take it. You can't have your cake and eat it too
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.01.19 15:18:00 - [344] Originally by: Bouncer Ricdic It's funny. Matalino gave an open call to people as to who wanted a board of director's position and no-one else bothered to take it. You can't have your cake and eat it too As I have been reminded more than once, the most important part of an IPO is communication. I also tried to say, "But the large investors haven't complained!" and was shot down. BoD or no, everyone deserves an explanation of what happened. Furthermore, there is absolutely no rule preventing you from telling us what the GM's have done, only from copying and pasting the correspondence directly. Please stop rolling out that old canard. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.19 17:19:00 - [345] While their may not be a specific rule that prevents me from disclosing everything, there is my implied promise. Good IPO managment is a combination of open communication AND integrity. This whole issue is built upon implied promises made by GM's. In looking for a resolution, I made the implied promise that I would not disclose the details if the resolution was completely satasfactory. So far, I have been given everything I have asked for to resolve this issue, so I feel bound to that promise. I gave an open invitation for investors to state that they would prefer disclosure at the cost of resolution, but there were none who stepped forward to take that offer. We can hardly expect CCP to honor their promises if we do not honor ours. I am still in commumication with the Lead GM. There are still details which have not been completed. Unlike with frontline or senior GM's, the response time with a Lead GM is impressively fast. We exchanged notes about 4 times yesterday. If he is working today, I expect to hear from him, however, as a Lead GM he might have a traditional Mon-Fri schedule so I might not hear back until Monday. I will ask him if he believed that non-disclosure was part of my obligation in this matter, and how much of this issue could be disclosed. Until he responds, I will not be publishing any more specific details.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.19 18:07:00 - [346] My questions: A.) Why would disclosure of the bug itself prevent resolution. B.) Why would disclosing the bug compromise your communications with the developers and expose their incompetence? C.) Why does it matter anyway? You've spent the last couple weeks telling us how incompetently this case has been handled along the entire way by the support staff. We KNOW this already. All we don't know is the specifics of the bug. Best I can tell the bug is not an exploit and only serves to hurt you. I agree with MP here. Unless there is some special Candlejack clause here whereby invoking the name of the bug it comes to your house and kills you, I'd like to know what it was. I could also understand if telling us the bug disclosed secret parts of your business plan, but you haven't stated this.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.19 18:09:00 - [347] Originally by: Bouncer Ricdic It's funny. Matalino gave an open call to people as to who wanted a board of director's position and no-one else bothered to take it. You can't have your cake and eat it too Also agree with MP here. I shouldn't, as an investor, have to go begging for information on a PUBLIC company. Especially one such as this that is still planning on issuing more shares. I shouldn't have to be on the board of directors to learn why there was an may still be a significant chance that I'll have to write off 2/3 of my investment.
Kirjava Lothian Quay Industries Zzz	Posted - 2008.01.19 20:50:00 - [348] Giving out too many details makes you target, by investing in him you have decided that he is the right person to run it. He has stated there is a problem, openly discussed it with a respected independant party who has confirmed both the existence and steps are being taken with the bug. You knowing from him spilling the beans is ultimatly pointless, if the GM remembers this and improves working relations between Mal and the GM team by not ratting him out then so much the better. If you know, you can do nothing, but if you don't then Mal may have gained some favor and allowing the continuation of the project. If it hadn't been fixed then he would have said what it was, but it is being fixed so no problem. ~Nyron Originally by: Minerva Vulcan But poor victimized Ulf...I weep lavender scented tears for you.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.19 22:31:00 - [349] I think it depends. If everything gets resolved and it doesn't have an impact on the profits, then there's no need to discuss the issue and people will just have to deal with their own curiousity. If it has effected profits negatively even after the resolution then we do deserve to know the why and hows I believe. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.20 00:17:00 - [350] I will not comment further on the bug at this time. The bottom line is that I gave assurance that I would not disclose those details if the problem was resolved. The problem has been resolved, and I honor my promises. Unless the GM releases me from that promise, I will say nothing more. The lack of response today would seem to indicate that this GM works Mon-Fri. You have waited this long, a couple of days won't make any more of a difference: wait and see what he has to say on Monday. If disclosure of this issue is as insignificant as you say it is, then you can expect the GM to release me from my previous commitment. However, if the GM wishes to have these details remain confidencial, then I will honor that request. In that case, about all there is to say, is that we would be receiving a better deal than we otherwise would have had I been more public about the mistakes that were made. While making statements about their incompetence, I also qualified it with the fact that I did not have the full context to assert that claim. Now that the details are known, I can say that it was a small error that snowballed into something larger. Being in the middle of the problem, things looked much worse than at either end.
Rasta Farian Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2008.01.20 01:07:00 - [351] I am curious to see what the issue is/was. But what i really would like to know is: After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino? Would you still launch this IPO if time went back?
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.20 01:12:00 - [352] Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino? Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises. Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's. But not to worry, I have some fun goals over the next couple of months that will help DATAC and provide some fun for me. Originally by: Rasta Farian Would you still launch this IPO if time went back? Probably not. Too much commitment. Games are much more fun when you can just walk a way when you need a break.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.20 01:41:00 - [353] I understand where you're coming from and if that's your wish I'm not going to make a big deal. I guess moreso I just don't understand why you'd even make a promise like that. Do the GMs even care? It's a bug in the game. This kind of stuff is discussed on the forums all the time. Do the devs get hurt feelings when bugs in their game are disclosed on these forums? I doubt.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.20 01:44:00 - [354] Edited by: Matalino on 20/01/2008 01:45:02 Originally by: Benvie I understand where you're coming from and if that's your wish I'm not going to make a big deal. I guess moreso I just don't understand why you'd even make a promise like that. Do the GMs even care? It's a bug in the game. This kind of stuff is discussed on the forums all the time. Do the devs get hurt feelings when bugs in their game are disclosed on these forums? I doubt. If you're right then you will have all of the details on Monday. If not, then we will know that they do actually care, and the promise was worth something.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.20 02:24:00 - [355] Thanks for your work Mat - right now my only concern is my investment in this IPO - is it back on track and will I make a profit? Ze logs show NOTHING! ~ Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.20 03:17:00 - [356] Originally by: Astorothe Thanks for your work Mat - right now my only concern is my investment in this IPO - is it back on track and will I make a profit? Their are still a couple of things for the GM to finish off at his end. Once that is done, I will need about two weeks to tie things off at my end, before I can update my projections accurately. Right now, I estimate that we are riding on the line of being able to meet the original target returns. The DC market crashed hard in December, but so far for January the market has been declining more slowly. I am working on plans to form an improved safety net to help carry through even if the market continues to collapse. Some return will certainly happen, it is just a question of how much. On the upside, the GTC market has improved conciderably. I am guessing that is because there are plenty of new toys to buy.
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2008.01.20 06:00:00 - [357] I haven't played EVE for a month, or I'd probably convo you directly for some info. Since I still feel like "meh" everytime I go to login, I'll just ask a general question here. I don't care about the bug details. I'm just curious what the bottom line is on the potential loss of ROI due to the bug? Have we lost any money as a result? If so, I'd definitely agree that more information ought to be forthcoming. If not, end of story in my opinion. Who cares? I know things are rough due to market declines... don't let that get you down Mat. It's not like you didn't make that possibility clear upfront. Still think you're doing a great job.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.01.20 07:03:00 - [358] I think a little time was lost but based on the resolution ccp provided I don's see it being a problem with regards to the operation. The real focal point atm should be the prices on datacores.
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.01.21 14:47:00 - [359] Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino? Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises. Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's. So, to clarify, you won't release details of this bug, because if you did, you'd then scam for all the isk invested in you? Spectacular. You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as. MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.01.21 14:56:00 - [360] Originally by: Motivated Prophet [You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as. MP You know MP the same could be said about you and your refusal to discuss in public anything about why certain ventures you run havent paid any dividends for a long time. --
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.21 15:20:00 - [361] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino? Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises. Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's. So, to clarify, you won't release details of this bug, because if you did, you'd then scam for all the isk invested in you? Spectacular. You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as. MP Don't think I've seen spin like that outside the IGS in some time. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Kuseka Adama Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.01.21 16:01:00 - [362] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino? Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises. Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's. So, to clarify, you won't release details of this bug, because if you did, you'd then scam for all the isk invested in you? Spectacular. You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as. MP Its called keeping one's word. You dumbass. Part of the reason i decided to invest 72 million instead of buying a megathron. Clean up your own backyard before trying to handle someone elses.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.21 16:10:00 - [363] I have told you my reason for not disclosing the details of the bug earlier. You can accept or reject that reason, but that is ultimately why I took that stance on disclosure. My reason for using confidentiality as a bargaining chip was that I believed that it would allow us to get a more favorable resolution if I did not present it as a class-action case sample to get this resolved for everyone, but instead focused on how this issue was uniquely mishandled in my situation. It would appear that has been successful, as we have received a favorable resolution. I have also received a reply from the GM, confirming that he would prefer that I remain vague on the details of this bug and what was done to resolve it, so that they are not hit with a bunch of people petitioning for skills that they should not have received, but has given me permission to say a bit more on the topic. The short description of this bug is that the characters were missing a vital skill at creation. This only affected a very specific set of characters. That is why I had said earlier, that if you were affected you would know about it. The missing skill itself would not have been a problem if CCP had not built up the expectation over several different petitions spread out over two months that they would fix that issue in a very specific way. Had CCP advised me previously that they were changing that skill, or that they would not be able to fix the issue further, then I would have made alternative plans to avoid that character template in the first place. However, because of the assurances that I received, I proceeded as that template was the most optimal, and previously CCP had shown on multiple occasions that fixing it was not a problem. It would appear that the poor documentation on this bug and the accompanying change, filtered down to the GM staff around the end of November. Much confusion then followed. As a direct result of this issue, December harvests were delayed on several of the characters. Had this issue not been resolved, its effect would have snowballed, causing us to miss key training targets for those accounts, thus pushing back revenues for months to come. Combine with the declining market, the effect would have been devastating. The resultion reached, addresses all of the factors and gives us reasonable room to work. Now that the issue has been resolved, and seeing the status of the market, this bug along with the delayed resolution might even be a blessing in disguise. I will explain how in a couple weeks when I present our options for dealing with the declining market. Now to those who figure out exactly what this bug was and who also have characters that were affected by this bug, and did not receive the resolution that you had hoped for, before you go whining to CCP, understand that my case regarding this issue was built on direct communication between CCP and myself. Unless you have a similar history of conflicting communication from CCP, you probably received the correct resolution for this issue in your situation. I do not believe that there is any part of my situation that can be directly transferred to your situation. If you still feel that CCP has done you wrong, then I suggest that you talk with them in a reasonable tone to get the issue resolved to your satisfaction. I believe that being co-operative with CCP does improve how co-operative they can be with you.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.01.21 16:42:00 - [364] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino? Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises. Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's. So, to clarify, you won't release details of this bug, because if you did, you'd then scam for all the isk invested in you? Spectacular. You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as. MP You're waaaaayyyyy off target here MP. It's almost laughable for you, of all people, to say some of those things as well. Tanking Setups Compared Stacking Penalty / Resists Explained
Motivated Prophet Zerodot Schools Power Corrupts Industry's	Posted - 2008.01.21 17:33:00 - [365] Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino? Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises. Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's. So, to clarify, you won't release details of this bug, because if you did, you'd then scam for all the isk invested in you? Spectacular. You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as. MP You're waaaaayyyyy off target here MP. It's almost laughable for you, of all people, to say some of those things as well. Two things: 1) Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Seeing no such examples, I cast it myself. Do my misdeeds, if any, somehow negate those of which I accuse Matalino? I should hope not. 2) The man QUITE SPECIFICALLY SAID, to wit, "If forced to reveal details of what happened, I will consider that a breach of trust. If I breach that trust, I see no reason not to breach the trust put in me by my shareholders [not to scam]". The only assailable part of that characterization of Matalino's quote, above, is the "not to scam" part, but I think anyone reading it in the context of these forums would see it as a threat to run off with all the isk. My only interest in this venture is in the degree to which any failure of it reflects poorly on investment advice I passed on to friends and colleagues. As such, if you can read Matalino's quoted text, above, as anything but a threat to run off with all the isk, please help me understand it in that context and I will settle down. Until then, you can attack the messenger all you like, but Matalino just threatened to scam you all. Now watch him backpedal. ("Oh, I just meant I'd shut it down if forced to reveal things!" is my first guess as to how he'll spin it. Nevermind that that makes no sense, except in a "taking my ball and going home" sort of way. ) MP -- Proud steward of 47 billion isk in public money, and counting. Ask me about mineral ~~compression~~expansion! WTF?
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.21 17:52:00 - [366] Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Shadarle Originally by: Motivated Prophet Originally by: Matalino Originally by: Rasta Farian After all this incidents on all this metagaming are you still having fun playing EVE Metalino? Honestly, not really, but the same thing that keeps me from disclosing the details of this bug keeps me playing. I made a promise to see this thing through, and I intend to keep my promises. Now if investors want me to start breaking promises, I see no reason to stop at breaking the one made to the GM's. So, to clarify, you won't release details of this bug, because if you did, you'd then scam for all the isk invested in you? Spectacular. You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as. MP You're waaaaayyyyy off target here MP. It's almost laughable for you, of all people, to say some of those things as well. Two things: 1) Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Seeing no such examples, I cast it myself. Do my misdeeds, if any, somehow negate those of which I accuse Matalino? I should hope not. 2) The man QUITE SPECIFICALLY SAID, to wit, "If forced to reveal details of what happened, I will consider that a breach of trust. If I breach that trust, I see no reason not to breach the trust put in me by my shareholders [not to scam]". The only assailable part of that characterization of Matalino's quote, above, is the "not to scam" part, but I think anyone reading it in the context of these forums would see it as a threat to run off with all the isk. My only interest in this venture is in the degree to which any failure of it reflects poorly on investment advice I passed on to friends and colleagues. As such, if you can read Matalino's quoted text, above, as anything but a threat to run off with all the isk, please help me understand it in that context and I will settle down. Until then, you can attack the messenger all you like, but Matalino just threatened to scam you all. Now watch him backpedal. ("Oh, I just meant I'd shut it down if forced to reveal things!" is my first guess as to how he'll spin it. Nevermind that that makes no sense, except in a "taking my ball and going home" sort of way. ) MP I see it as a person who values his integrity and won't compromise either end of it to satisfy the whiners. It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.21 18:21:00 - [367] Bringing this back to focus: do current shareholders still have questions regarding this matter, or was my latest post sufficient?
Richard Kitan United Space Republic Research	Posted - 2008.01.21 18:34:00 - [368] Originally by: Matalino Bringing this back to focus: do current shareholders still have questions regarding this matter, or was my latest post sufficient? I did want to know about the bug, and was satisfied by your explanation. -- Richard Kitan Builder of Stuff
Dreysine Paratheoanametamystichood	Posted - 2008.01.21 18:56:00 - [369] mat, i am more than satisfied with the way you have handled this and the level of communication.
Benvie Benvie Enterprises	Posted - 2008.01.21 18:57:00 - [370] Thanks Matalino, that explanation of the problem was pretty much all I personally was looking for.
Rasta Farian Rasta Tropical Club	Posted - 2008.01.21 19:12:00 - [371] Originally by: Motivated Prophet My only interest in this venture is in the degree to which any failure of it reflects poorly on investment advice I passed on to friends and colleagues. As such, if you can read Matalino's quoted text, above, as anything but a threat to run off with all the isk, please help me understand it in that context and I will settle down. Until then, you can attack the messenger all you like, but Matalino just threatened to scam you all. MP We all know how good your investment abilities are so your advices should be on par with it. If it all turns bad your friends will still be your friends. Don¦t worry. If Metalino indeed was on to scam wouldn¦t he just keep his mouth shut and focus more on selling shares saying all was going well? I have no idea if he will scam soon or later but so far his actions are far from a thief.
Finedele Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.01.21 19:28:00 - [372] i think i know the bug, some recruitees at my corp had similar bugs on a very special and i'd say uncommon charcreation. this was what i hoped for, you delivered it.
Minerva Vulcan Caldari The Nexus Foundation Endless Horizon	Posted - 2008.01.21 20:31:00 - [373] Originally by: Motivated Prophet As such, if you can read Matalino's quoted text, above, as anything but a threat to run off with all the isk, please help me understand it in that context and I will settle down. He meant it that he's going to stay good on his word to everyone, the lead GM that he's spoken to about it, and not reveal every little detail about a resolved issue, and to investors that he's not going to run off with a hefty sum of ISK. A person in something like this is only as good as their word until all the ISK is back in the investors hands at the completetion of a venture. If he breaks one word, what's to stop him there? That's the point he was trying to make. By staying true to what he says to everyone, he's showing that he's a trustworty person to the extent that he can be all around. Given that there's pressure from people to expose everything, and he's not buckling under the pressure and instead staying cool and in sight of his goals, and keeping good on what he says, that in fact puts a good amount of confidence in him in my book. After all, how many of these things went scam because they "couldn't handle the pressure or criticism" and decided to just do a runner? Ok, there was a bug on certain character creation, it's been resolved... it's been explained in satisfactory detail to me. If anyone wants more info on the exact specifics they can probably find out if they do a little research. _______________________________ I need new voices in my head, To speak my secret evils with. I need new lovers in my bed, To be my friends and special pets.
Astorothe Aperture Science Industries	Posted - 2008.01.21 23:26:00 - [374] Originally by: Matalino Bringing this back to focus: do current shareholders still have questions regarding this matter, or was my latest post sufficient? As a shareholder I would like to think you're out there enjoying the game and making us lots of ISK. This thread has been resolved as far as I am concerned. Ze logs show NOTHING! ~ Eve Corp and Fansite Web design, development and hosting services
Kitex Blacktag Test Labs	Posted - 2008.01.22 05:26:00 - [375] Originally by: Motivated Prophet You're being conniving, self-important, self-righteous, imperious, stupid, and/or crazy by withholding this information right now. If I were you, I'd choose pretty quickly which ones of those, if any, I'd prefer to be seen as. MP Absurd. Considering the source, perhaps "Astounding" is more descriptive. You've really chosen the wrong guy to jump on and get ****y with, MP. Mat's track-record of being forthcoming with investors is impeccable, and put in context with the current state of this niche in the EVE universe, remarkable. Don't make me dig out various posts regarding tiny. to bring your glaring and misplaced hypocrisy into the limelight. I'd rather sit here fat, lazy, and content that I've got billions riding on Matalino, and nothing on you. To answer Mat's question: yeah, I'm satisfied with your explanation and see no problem letting the drama here die off. I look forward to more info as it comes available, and extend an offer to help in anyway I can as you deal with the declining market, whether it be time, advice, or help in expanding the scope of the operation to include manipulation of the datacore market to jack up prices. The manipulation bit was off the cuff and not well thought out, but it may be worth considering options in that direction. Let me know if you need cash to help make that happen.
Dr Slurm General Commodities	Posted - 2008.01.22 05:37:00 - [376] You might consider getting this thread locked and starting a nice new fresh one. I know anyone just coming into it might be overwhelmed by the 10 pages dealing with the "issue". It's better then Quafe! Off-topic. Please don't point out semantic errors of the moderators - Mitnal
Kuseka Adama Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.01.22 05:58:00 - [377] More like four. Either way i am more than satisfied Matalino keep up the good work.
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.01.22 06:12:00 - [378] Originally by: Dr Slurm You might consider getting this thread locked and starting a nice new fresh one. I know anyone just coming into it might be overwhelmed by the 10 pages dealing with the "issue". My plan was to let people finish talking about recent events in this thread, then start a new one in a couple weeks when I release more details on where we are and what I think our options are. I see no reason to lock this thread as the new one will replace it for any official communication regarding the IPO. This will will simply fade due to a lack of activity. I am waiting a couple of weeks before making that announcement so that I can tidy things up a bit more at my end and have a clear picture of where we stand.

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