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Armageddon v Abaddon, cap tank and dps discussion.

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BornePassive	Posted - 2007.10.04 22:27:00 - [1] Edited by: BornePassive on 04/10/2007 22:29:30 well this basically is for pvp I'm still for the geddon because of the 8 lows and highs + gank bonuses, but then abaddon seems pretty mental too :) tank and gank what do you guys think. I don't know about the caps though, I know apoc is best there
TimMc Skiddies of Doom	Posted - 2007.10.04 22:32:00 - [2] Geddon is a gankship that you won't keep very long, but its cheap. Don't know about the abbadon, but I assume it has problems what with no Cap bonus.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.10.04 22:41:00 - [3] Abaddon works great, in fleets and missions. For solo and ratting it far to caphungry to be very efficient. Got the grid to use tachs. Works great with nos, but at this point the gank is severely crippled. Armageddon is great for just ratting and solo/small gang. Simply because as you say it's all gank. Won't need as much CPR's in low, and it's got another low, however is tougher to fit thanks to only 3 mids and less grid. Postcount: 727927 [02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
me bored	Posted - 2007.10.04 23:06:00 - [4] The abaddon is generally superior if you know how to set it up correctly. Unfortunately it seems that few people have the experience to do so.
IKEELYOU	Posted - 2007.10.04 23:08:00 - [5] Abaddon cannot active tank and run lasers at the same time due to cap. Not a problem. Run 8 MP, triple heat sinks and a fat passive tank and *********!
Karyuudo Tydraad Caldari Whiskey Pete's Drycleaning Services	Posted - 2007.10.04 23:09:00 - [6] Both are great ships. For sustained combat the geddon pulls ahead, but the Abaddon is amazing until it inevitably caps out. I don't like relying on drones to augment my DPS either.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.10.04 23:10:00 - [7] Originally by: me bored The abaddon is generally superior if you know how to set it up correctly. Unfortunately it seems that few people have the experience to do so. Indeed, any way I try, I keep getting more damage out of the geddon, which seems quite logic considering its bonuses and stats. I must be to unexperienced. Gank to me is indeed as much damage as possible, but that might once again be my lack of experience talking. And I've yet to see any abaddon putting out some 13-1400 dps, where the geddon can do it without going to extreme measures. Postcount: 292493 [02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
Hurricane	Posted - 2007.10.04 23:23:00 - [8] Edited by: Hurricane on 04/10/2007 23:25:02 My Don setup: Highs: 8 Megapulse II Meds: 100mn MWD or sensor booster, heavy cap booster II, fleeting web, warp disruptor II Lows: 3 Heat sink II, EANM II, IFFA, 2 1600mm RT plate Dps is not quite as good as the geddon but it has a couple nice advantages. First it gets less of its dps from drones, that makes it a far better choice when gate camping. Second it has more alpha/dps before heavies reach their target. It also has enough fitting room for good stuff in the mids and makes a better solo ship. And it has a better tank than a similiarly fitted geddon thanks to the resist bonus. Though most of the time I just fly a geddon.
LtCmdrCass Amarr Slacker Incorporated	Posted - 2007.10.04 23:29:00 - [9] Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad Both are great ships. For sustained combat the geddon pulls ahead, but the Abaddon is amazing until it inevitably caps out. I don't like relying on drones to augment my DPS either. I've actually flown both and use to love the Geddon for it's gankability. But the Abaddon has grown on me once I figured out how to fit it, and actually does much better for me in sustained combat (solo lvl 4's). I think the difference is the extra mid slot / cargo capacity. Fit a cap booster with 800's and it solves the cap problem. Plus the damage bonus at BS 5 means no need for an extra HS II in the low slot. So basically it just about even's out with the gankability of the geddon. Plus you get all that extra grid, armor and armor resist bonuses. (And off the wall - I switch to AC's when I run a dual rep setup. Lower damage but I can tank for days with the extra cap)
Acoco Osiris Gallente Sublime.	Posted - 2007.10.05 00:18:00 - [10] Abaddon performs better, but if forced to simultaneously tank and shoot, it caps out. However, if you need only worry about one of them at a time, it outperforms all other Amarr battleships. ------------------------------ One more soldier off to war... And one Velator in my hangars.
Atius Tirawa Minmatar Wreckless Abandon Triumvirate.	Posted - 2007.10.05 01:07:00 - [11] there are only two advantages to flying a geddon over an abaddon - price and 5 heavy drones. If shooting is your goal, then the Abaddon has the highest alpha, the highest dps and the most armor.
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.05 01:34:00 - [12] Geddon is superior for gang work, heres the hint, think healing. http://www.omniscient-order.com/ Sahwoolo Etoophie is a noob! Noob and proud -Sahwoolo
kessah Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.05 02:55:00 - [13] The geddon is cheap and its now alot easier to fit. You can knock out very easy 1100-1200 dps with drones. 954 dps i think i got my mega pulse lasers out at with 2x heatsinks *might have been 3x HS's and 2x ROF rigs i think it was. With 5 slot armour tank it was rather tasty. 890 dps with Abaddon (on guns alone) with 2x TS heatsinks with 78-83% resists The Abaddon though is Very expensive, 350m total if i fit one out. Try a geddon, dual Sensor boosters w/ t2 WD and 3x heatsinks (ROF rigs are dead cheap for Amarr) ppl will say the rigs on top of 3heatsink are useless, but you can squeese almost a 3rd of a second off the ROF of megapulse and thats so worth having your guns fire every 2.18 seconds i think it was. Drakes go down fast -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3
Altai Saker Omniscient Order Cruel Intentions	Posted - 2007.10.05 05:23:00 - [14] I want to say I fully endorse what Kessah is saying and think that it's very much inline with what people should be doing with their geddons. That being said I personally use trimarks. http://www.omniscient-order.com/ Sahwoolo Etoophie is a noob! Noob and proud -Sahwoolo
Zana Kito Antares Fleet Yards SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.05 07:13:00 - [15] Geddon and Aba does very similar turret dps factoring in the bonuses. Geddon bonuses: + extra heavy drone + extra low for more options + does not cap out easily + cheap - no so hot for range setups, since 3 mids and low grid.. Aba bonuses: + Better passive tank (at the expense of a useless active tank) + High alpha (with similar dps overall) + Can be used in fleets for range with 4 mids and high grid - caps out easily Personally if it's a gang pvp setup, i'd go with geddon.
Jasai Kameron Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.10.05 10:58:00 - [16] Originally by: kessah (ROF rigs are dead cheap for Amarr) ppl will say the rigs on top of 3heatsink are useless, but you can squeese almost a 3rd of a second off the ROF of megapulse and thats so worth having your guns fire every 2.18 seconds i think it was. I hate to be predictable, but ROF rigs on top of 3 heatsinks is fairly useless. I can see maybe one ROF rig, which will only give you 28% of the bonus, (although even then, I think other rigs would be more effective). But after that you're looking at next to no bonus at all. A second rig will only have 10% of the bonus and a third will be 2%. I think trimarks are going to be far more useful. After all, your dps is massively increased by every second longer you can stay alive.
kessah Blood Corsair's	Posted - 2007.10.05 11:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Jasai Kameron Originally by: kessah (ROF rigs are dead cheap for Amarr) ppl will say the rigs on top of 3heatsink are useless, but you can squeese almost a 3rd of a second off the ROF of megapulse and thats so worth having your guns fire every 2.18 seconds i think it was. I hate to be predictable, but ROF rigs on top of 3 heatsinks is fairly useless. I can see maybe one ROF rig, which will only give you 28% of the bonus, (although even then, I think other rigs would be more effective). But after that you're looking at next to no bonus at all. A second rig will only have 10% of the bonus and a third will be 2%. I think trimarks are going to be far more useful. After all, your dps is massively increased by every second longer you can stay alive. when you get to 50k armour would 2k extra seem worth it? Geddons guns are its tank and its firepower if you think of it that way, i believe i got an extra 100dps with both ROF rigs and becus i brought them for about 5-6m i didnt mind. Kind of like "is it worth having Pulse spec to level 5, some argue it is some dont. Then again i might have been using 2 heatsinks i dont remember, lost the geddon to 3 carriers. Trimarks are good, but your not a tank, Geddons dont tank, dont buffer, your sole purpose imho is damage, il squeeze as much as i can out of it 100 odd dps extra was more valuable to me. -------------------------------------------------------- [Video] Forever Pirate 3
Hyakuchan Earth Federation Space Force	Posted - 2007.10.05 13:32:00 - [18] Originally by: BornePassive I'm still for the geddon because of the 8 lows and highs + gank bonuses, but then abaddon seems pretty mental too Amarr battleships run the gamut from "easy to fit but sucks so badly that it's obvious to everyone" (Apoc) to "sucks if you don't fit it right with good skills" (Ab), with the Geddon falling somewhere in the middle. -------------------------------------------------- FRIGATS Coalition FREGE-Red-IAC-Goon-AAA-Tau-Southerncross "We gonna beat you with frigats."
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.05 13:34:00 - [19] Originally by: NoNah Abaddon works great, in fleets and missions. For solo and ratting it far to caphungry to be very efficient. Got the grid to use tachs. Works great with nos, but at this point the gank is severely crippled. Armageddon is great for just ratting and solo/small gang. Simply because as you say it's all gank. Won't need as much CPR's in low, and it's got another low, however is tougher to fit thanks to only 3 mids and less grid. How can it be good for missions, but not for ratting? You need to be far more cap-stable in a mission than even against a triple 1.8m spawn in 0.0. ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
Almarez Setenta Corp	Posted - 2007.10.05 13:40:00 - [20] The geddon is a short range gank ship. It is just sick with pulse lasers and heavy drones. The Abaddon is more of a tanking sniper. Basically you put some Tachs or Mega Beams on it, get to your optimal, align for emergency warp, and pew pew like crazy. Your tank should let you get away if you are called primary (which people will usually not do till the less tanked ships go). This is also true since the Abaddon is much easier to fit than the geddon. Hope this helps. What playing Amarr feels like.
Nessa Aldeen	Posted - 2007.10.05 16:12:00 - [21] Well, Abaddon for fleet is bad esp. big fleets. It requires logistics ship to hold its cap and logistics pilots will start *****ing abt it. It simply lacks the sustained stamina require for prolonged fleet fights. Try fit 7-8 tachyons II and see if you can maintain capa. The Apoc is still the preferred fleet ship as the geddon also lacks the necessary slots for big fleet action. Bang for buck they would say. In small gangs, the Abaddon need to wipe out the enemy quick under 2mins or even less before your cap booster runs out. The Geddon also does the same but has better capa. If the abaddon loses its resists i gladly accept the laser reduction bonus instead and you would have a nice perfect gank ship. As is the Abaddon MUST kill before its capa dies. So bottom line is, if your confident that you can kill the enemy within timeframe go for Abaddon. If you feel that risking more than 150m for more DPS and armor isnt worth it, then Geddon. But the geddon in small gangs also has some problems namely its three slots. So the choice is yours.
NoNah Unseen University	Posted - 2007.10.05 16:20:00 - [22] Originally by: J'Mkarr Soban Originally by: NoNah Abaddon works great, in fleets and missions. For solo and ratting it far to caphungry to be very efficient. Got the grid to use tachs. Works great with nos, but at this point the gank is severely crippled. Armageddon is great for just ratting and solo/small gang. Simply because as you say it's all gank. Won't need as much CPR's in low, and it's got another low, however is tougher to fit thanks to only 3 mids and less grid. How can it be good for missions, but not for ratting? You need to be far more cap-stable in a mission than even against a triple 1.8m spawn in 0.0. Actually not really. A) You can dictate range in belts - they've got no set jump in points. B) You don't really have to tank - ever - versus belt rats. And no, cap is actually quite useless, as long as you got a decent tank. The abaddon normally tanks better than the geddon. Postcount: 8160 [02:40:22] <elmickers> if you're caldari in a fleet fight, bring a corp
Ather Ialeas Amarr Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United Cult of War	Posted - 2007.10.05 17:14:00 - [23] Originally by: kessah The geddon is cheap and its now alot easier to fit. You can knock out very easy 1100-1200 dps with drones. 1086. -
Myra2007	Posted - 2007.10.05 17:42:00 - [24] Originally by: NoNah Gank to me is indeed as much damage as possible, but that might once again be my lack of experience talking. And I've yet to see any abaddon putting out some 13-1400 dps, where the geddon can do it without going to extreme measures. Abaddon: 8 x MP 2, Conflag, 3 x HS 2 3 x Ogre T2 -> 1119 dps Armageddon: 7 x MP 2, Conflag, 3 x HS 2 5 x Ogre T2 -> 1184 dps That is not the big difference people always make it look like, especially as the abaddon does more dmg over guns. Its not even 70dps and abaddon will live longer due to higher resistances and or more hp. And how exactly can you pull off 1400dps in a geddon without said extreme measures. Honest question cause i'd like to have a 1400 dps geddon too if its affordable for my wallet.
Sofring Eternus Amarr Imperial Academy	Posted - 2007.10.05 18:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: NoNah Gank to me is indeed as much damage as possible, but that might once again be my lack of experience talking. And I've yet to see any abaddon putting out some 13-1400 dps, where the geddon can do it without going to extreme measures. Abaddon: 8 x MP 2, Conflag, 3 x HS 2 3 x Ogre T2 -> 1119 dps Armageddon: 7 x MP 2, Conflag, 3 x HS 2 5 x Ogre T2 -> 1184 dps That is not the big difference people always make it look like, especially as the abaddon does more dmg over guns. Its not even 70dps and abaddon will live longer due to higher resistances and or more hp. And how exactly can you pull off 1400dps in a geddon without said extreme measures. Honest question cause i'd like to have a 1400 dps geddon too if its affordable for my wallet. But how much more DPS can the armor of the Abaddon soak up compared to how much longer the Geddon can output its own DPS without capping out? ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ
Xeronn	Posted - 2007.10.05 20:50:00 - [26] for my l4 `s i use an abaddon with something like : 7x megabeams , 1x whatever (maybe i can fit 8 IF i ever get my fitting skills up) 4x cap rechargers II (really i don`t need ab or web for PvE , megabeams dash out dmg far enough to kill any rat and not worry about geting in range) lows : LAR II (faction LAR now) , 2x HS 4x hardners rigs : 2x CCC , 1 x armor rep ammount this way my cap is stable with anything but MF crystals, and even with MF `s i can run tank and guns non-stop , switching targets and pausing guns for a few seconds is enough) this works great for most of my missions that happen to be vs sansha and blood raiders or : 8x MP`s , 3x cap rechargers , AB LAR II , MAR II , 3x hardners , DCII , cap flux coil same rigs as above (duh!) this is for those friggin merc or angel missions where BS`s tend to stay at 5000 m , so range isn`t an issue , and this thing is a tank monster tbh , able to run everything at once i supose using a third CCC instead of the armor rep rig would make it without any cap issues , but this is PvE...so for pvp where you actually need those meds..i don`t really know..i only affoard to lose BC`s in Pvp right now
J'Mkarr Soban Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 18:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Sofring Eternus Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: NoNah Gank to me is indeed as much damage as possible, but that might once again be my lack of experience talking. And I've yet to see any abaddon putting out some 13-1400 dps, where the geddon can do it without going to extreme measures. Abaddon: 8 x MP 2, Conflag, 3 x HS 2 3 x Ogre T2 -> 1119 dps Armageddon: 7 x MP 2, Conflag, 3 x HS 2 5 x Ogre T2 -> 1184 dps That is not the big difference people always make it look like, especially as the abaddon does more dmg over guns. Its not even 70dps and abaddon will live longer due to higher resistances and or more hp. And how exactly can you pull off 1400dps in a geddon without said extreme measures. Honest question cause i'd like to have a 1400 dps geddon too if its affordable for my wallet. But how much more DPS can the armor of the Abaddon soak up compared to how much longer the Geddon can output its own DPS without capping out? But if the Geddon dies before the Abaddon, that's a moot point - it's only relevant if the Abaddon caps out before the Geddon dies, and that depends entirely on the DPS coming into the Geddon, and what modules the Abaddon fits. If it's fleet fitting, I'd imagine the Geddon will die first, if it's anything else, the Abaddon will cap out first. But then it also depends over what length of time, too. ----------------------------- "Oh, we're sorry, you had the 'NakedAmarrChicks' bit flagged in your account somehow." "Wait, why was there even a flag for that to begin with?" "..."
LUKEC Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:33:00 - [28] Imo as fleet ship, arma > abaddon if you want to go ghetto no rig setup. If you have isk to waste, abaddon can actually be better but in blobs online kinda nonsense. As pulse boat, I love 8 lows and 5 heavy drone and utility slot and... abaddon is still better but isk / performance ratio, arma is one of eve winner.
Kerdrak 3B Legio IX Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:40:00 - [29] Originally by: Myra2007 Originally by: NoNah Gank to me is indeed as much damage as possible, but that might once again be my lack of experience talking. And I've yet to see any abaddon putting out some 13-1400 dps, where the geddon can do it without going to extreme measures. Abaddon: 8 x MP 2, Conflag, 3 x HS 2 3 x Ogre T2 -> 1119 dps Armageddon: 7 x MP 2, Conflag, 3 x HS 2 5 x Ogre T2 -> 1184 dps That is not the big difference people always make it look like, especially as the abaddon does more dmg over guns. Its not even 70dps and abaddon will live longer due to higher resistances and or more hp. And how exactly can you pull off 1400dps in a geddon without said extreme measures. Honest question cause i'd like to have a 1400 dps geddon too if its affordable for my wallet. Never use conflagration, never! (abaddon with conflagration is like shooting yourself) ________________________________________
Azirapheal Amarr Ore Mongers R0ADKILL	Posted - 2007.10.07 19:43:00 - [30] my geddon clone packs ROF implants and a 5% laser damage implant, aswell as ROF rigs include heatsinks and im gettin 1340dps with multifreq i get sick of having to carry spare conflages in it :D and it still packs a decent hp tank

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